BIRMINGHAM

LIMITATION ENTERING INTO GOD'S WAYS

Job 38: 1-11; Genesis 39: 19-23; 40: 1-13; Philippians 1: 12-19; 2 Samuel 7: 17-29

J.McK. I wondered if we could find help and encouragement in seeing how the principle of limitation enters into God's ways with us in view of the reaching of His objectives. As we come together, many of the brethren know very testing circumstances, personally and in our households and localities. The situation generally is one of some difficulty. I think there would be encouragement for us in seeing that this is part of the wisdom of God's ways, and, far from working to our disadvantage, as limitation is accepted from Him it works out to great profit.

I read from Job showing that the principle enters into the great realm of creation; the reference particularly is to the sea, and God uses these remarkable words: "When I cut out for it my boundary, and set bars and doors, and said, Hitherto shalt thou come and no further, and here shall thy proud waves be stayed". The spirit of worship should enter our souls when we think of God using language like that.

Then in Joseph, described as one of the "king's prisoners", we have a type of the Lord Jesus, the One who came into circumstances of limitation such as we shall never know. Joseph was there as prospered of God, and we might see how the circumstances of Christ's manhood link with the reaching of divine objectives. Then Paul in Philippians says, ''the circumstances in which I am have turned out rather to the furtherance of the glad tidings". Also David, great man as he was at the end of his life had to experience some measure of limitation, but what results is a great outflow of worship. He becomes a great contributor to the service of God.

I trust that the brethren will be free, because the truth is intended to bear on us in the real circumstances of life.

D.B.B. Paul at the outset was told how much he would have to suffer. It does not bring in any bitterness but great expansion, as we see from Philippians, that whatever the circumstances, he accepts them from God.

J.McK. I think what is needed is the perception in the soul of the greatness of the God with whom we have to do. The God who has designed, secured and conferred all our blessings is the God who acts in a certain way, and in our circumstances we are to recognise that He is supreme. What is happening in the world around us- and we should be a are of it - is that people are casting off restraint. In every sphere of life that is true, young people, older people, in every one of the social strata amongst men restraint is being cast off. I was thinking of the words of Solomon in Proverbs 29; "Where there is no vision the people cast off restraint" (v 18). "Where there is no vision": that is, where there is no real perception of the greatness of God the effect will be that restraint is cast off. Is that not true? I think therefore the need is to be preserved in our souls in some sense and acknowledgement of how great God is, the One who can bring a measure of restriction and yet can prosper us in it.

D.B.B. With Joseph God could have overruled the circumstances in a completely different way, but He acts, you might say, in view of Joseph getting the gain of what he was passing through in view of the release of his brethren.

R.D.P. Has limitation always been a test to man? I was thinking of the garden and the tree. Man was tested from the outset by limitation and the devil played on that, but God put no limitation on the tree of life.

J.McK. What man did not realise was that the restriction was for his protection. God was not withholding what was good but was asserting in that simple statement - "of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat" (Gen 2:17) - His own supremacy. That is something that God will never relinquish in the life of any man, woman or child. In the prophet He says, "I am Jehovah ... and my glory will I not give to another", Isa 42: 8. So Job is instructed by God Himself as to the greatness of creation.

T.M. Do you think that, if we are going to be true to the fellowship to which we have been called, that in itself would impose limitations upon us as far as the world is concerned and will work out for our salvation?

J.McK. Certainly; and in recognising them we find, do we not, the faithfulness of the God whose testimony it is? There is an element of victory for God in working out the greatest things unobtrusively. That principle can be traced right through Scripture. If man is going to do some great thing, if some major project is on hand, he clears the site and there is great evidence of what is going forward, great anticipation, great preparation. God does not work that way. He works out the greatest things in circumstances that, as far as men are concerned, are insignificant, but it is He who is working. I thought we should begin with Job because it is a comfort to see that God is supreme in regard of matters over which men have no control. God is bringing into Job's soul a sense of his own smallness. "Where wast thou when I founded the earth?" What He is really saying is, Job, much has gone on before and the source of all is the God of the universe, and if you have come to know Him in some measure, you have come into what others have enjoyed previously "all the sons of God shouted for joy". There were those who were sympathetic with what God had done and with His own rights in the realm of creation, a realm in which He has never relinquished His rights.

K.M. There is a majesty about these verses that causes us to worship in our souls.

J.McK. I believe that the element of worship is needed in every meeting. If we are to be in any occasion rightly, some sense of the greatness of God Himself needs to come into our souls.

D.J.W. What do you understand by these bars and doors in relation to the sea?

J.McK. Well, I am not able to open up the detail of this. I just thought that we should get an impression from it that God can control what men find impossible to control. In Birmingham we are a long way from the sea but we realise that the sea is something that is outside the ambit of what man can actually handle. The point here is that God can handle it. Can we get an impression as together of the God who is supreme in regard of everything and that includes the powers of evil?

D.J.W. Are there two sides in it? The bars may imply restraint, but the doors seem to allow it to go into certain areas according to God's will. I was thinking of 2 Corinthians; "For the love of the Christ constrains us", chap 5: 14. In one sense there is a limitation, but it is a limitation of love.

J.McK. That is right. The idea of limitation is also the idea of control as far as God is concerned. He has resources and can use them. He says, "When I cut out for it my boundary" - majestic language! - "and set bars and doors".

N.T.M. God has used famines in His ways; in fact there is one in Joseph's time. I think there was ministry about that at the time of the depression. Limitation was forced upon men, upon the saints. God used the famine, used the shortage, to turn men to Himself.

J.McK. What is happening in this world today is that people are being brought under pressure, and they are realising that things are getting worse. It may be that, in His grace, God will use the situation to turn men to Himself, to find that He is the God of the universe, the God whose management of creation has never been relinquished. He can speak to men about it to impress us with what is far beyond creature perception.

N.T.M. At the time of the famine in Egypt everyone finally had typically to acknowledge Christ's supremacy.

J.McK. They were brought round to it by a process. It took time and it does take time, but ultimately God will ensure, as the poet speaks of it, 'supreme submission in my soul'.

M.M. Was the perfect control of the elements seen, when the Lord Jesus Himself was here to the point when they had to say, "Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?", Mark 4: 41.

J.McK. Such words convey the greatness of who was there in the person of Christ; it was none less than God, the wonder of the universe, God manifest in flesh. I think as a principle this idea of God's thoughts being worked out in circumstances of restriction runs right through Scripture. A few weeks ago in Worcester we had an impression which I still carry as to the greatness of what God opened up to Abraham. He said, "Look now toward the heavens, and number the stars, if thou be able ... So shall thy seed be!", Gen 15: 5. But how was that worked out? It was worked out in circumstances of great restriction in the history of Abraham. Sarah was barren, and you can see in God's ways right the way through the book of Genesis as He worked out in that family all that He had in mind, the principle of restraint and restriction ensuring consistent dependence upon Himself.

R.D.P. You referred to the scripture which speaks of where there is no vision. Is essentially vision to be linked with any sense we have as to limitation? Abraham was sustained, you may say, by vision through the times when, as it says, ''who against hope believed in hope", Rom 4: 18. When things were almost impossible he was sustained by that. Is that important?

J.McK. And you have it with Moses too: ''for he persevered, as seeing him who is invisible", Heb 11: 27. The same thing is there, the element of vision. It is something outside your pathway and greater than your own situation that preserves you in the circumstances in which you are.

R.D.P. This great matter of creation which we started with is interesting. It seems from Revelation that, even in a day beyond ours, God will use the testimony in creation in relation to working out His ways. There is always something in creation that is beyond us. It is as if that is an abiding testimony to God's ways.

J.McK. And creation not simply as an evidence of God's power historically, but of God's action currently, because He acts in it, does He not? The Lord Jesus said, "Consider the lilies how they grow", Luke 12: 27. How does it happen? God is active in these things and faith gives place to it. Where faith is, there rises in the soul the spirit of worship that acknowledges God's supremacy.

P.H. At the end Job says, "but now mine eye seeth thee", Job 42: 5. Had he vision then?

J.McK. Well, he had heard about Him before. I think many of us have heard things about God. We live in a favoured day. Most of us have been brought up in circumstances of great benefit from that point of view, but there comes a day when on to the vision of the soul bursts some impression of the greatness of God. That is when we begin to make progress .

A.K.T. Have you in mind, in this thought of limitation, smallness of numbers in our localities? "For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them" Matt 18: 20. The scripture gives us that illustration of how things can be restricted to such small numbers and yet the Lord be there .

J.McK. Let us see that that restriction is of God. It is not simply a consequence of man's failure. You may say it is a consequence of history and all that has come in through human failures. Rather let us see that it is a consequence of God's ways, that in His wisdom He is working out His testimony in circumstances of smallness. Our salvation practically is in the acceptance of that.

B.B. God says in one place where there is extreme limitation, "The latter glory of this house shall be greater than the former", Hag 2: 9. That is an uplifting thought in a time of pressure.

J.McK. There can be spiritual enlargement, can there not, where there is outward limitation? I think it is fine to see that the God we have to do with is supreme: "Hitherto shalt thou come and no further". You see the rising tide of evil in the world: God is great enough, He will deal with evil wherever it is. You see crimes being perpetrated on humanity, 'man's inhumanity to man', the violence of war and all that is going on in the world at the moment. God allows certain things in His ways but finally He will deal with evil. "Hitherto shalt thou come and no further".

J.W. In the previous chapter there is a verse that brings out the extreme limitation into which Christ came: "By the breath of God ice is given; and the breadth of the waters is straitened", chap 37: 10. Does that give a clue as to what God is working out in this book as to the taking away of the first and the establishing of the second in God's ways with Job?

J.McK. I think it does and would bring us on to the passage in Genesis. What we have there is Joseph, a type of the Lord Jesus as we know, referred to as one of the king's prisoners. Let us allow the greatness of this afresh to impress us, that One who was none less than God, the God of the universe as we have been speaking of Him, He actually came Himself into circumstances that were restricted and, as in these circumstances of manhood, He went into the kind of restriction that that verse alludes to: "By the breath of God ice is given; and the breadth of the waters is straitened". The Lord Jesus said, "But I have a baptism to be baptised with, and how am I straitened until it shall have been accomplished!", Luke 12: 50. What feeling was in these words from the lips of One who Himself was not affected by the intrusion of sin. Why should it be that He should be restricted? Why should it be that He should be limited in any sense? Yet He knew limitation in a way that is greater than we shall ever know it.

J.W. One of the Psalms referring to Joseph gives us a sense of the feelings of Christ: "his soul came into irons" Ps 105: 8.

J.McK. That no doubt relates to this time when Joseph was confined in the king's prison.

D.J.W. Is verse 21 very touching in this subject, that in the limitation, suitable grace is given to meet that condition?

J.McK. "And Jehovah was with Joseph, and extended mercy to him, and gave him favour in the eyes of the chief of the tower-house". Think of the reality of the condition into which Jesus came, that He looked to God for everything. It says he "advanced in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and men", Luke 2: 52. So that the God who rules the universe was providing, in the circumstances in which Joseph was, that he should know prosperity. I read a remark in one of Mr Darby's letters the other day which impressed me. He said we need to be in the place of God's mind in order to prove His strength. I commend that to the brethren because I think it links very much with what we are saying. Joseph accepted the limitation. Christ came into limitation and He accepted that situation and proved God's strength in it.

R.D.P. Is it then an encouragement to see that these men like Joseph were not in the situation stoically? He obviously felt it; the iron came into his soul as was referred to. Speaking reverently, even the Lord Jesus went through those situations feelingly, did He not? - "but then, not my will, but thine be done" (Luke 22: 42) and soon – just for our encouragement, because we do not find limitation easy. It is meant to bring out feelings in us. We are not to become stoical, but it is intended to bring out feelings and dependence and weakness and all these things that God can use.

J.McK. The very circumstances into which Christ came confirm that. In Philippians 2 it says He "emptied himself" (v 7). Now, surely, if we ponder that, it involved tremendous sacrifice.

R.H. Does it bring about the spirit of worship in us? I feel that, at a time like this, when we are talking of these scriptures, we need to be worshipful as to the greatness of who God is and yet the way in which He comes right down into our circumstances individually and, as you say, locally, wherever it is.

J.McK. Think of who it was who emptied Himself, none less than one of the Persons of the Godhead, coming into circumstances of limitation. That is involved in emptying Himself, '1aking a bondman's form", and, as it also says, “taking his place" - "his place" - "in the likeness of men" (v 7). In itself, as Mr Darby has taught us, that statement – “the likeness of men" involves dignity. God's thought was that man was a dignified creature. But then Christ having come into that, it involved a stoop. He became, as another has said, what He was not before; He took that place. But then "having been found in figure as a man", it says He "humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of the cross" (v 8). This all links with Joseph who became the king's prisoner.

D.B.B. It says later, "God sent me before you to preserve life”, Gen 45: 5. The end is that life might be coming to light.

J.McK. Psalm 105 says "He sent a man before them"; then immediately, "Joseph was sold for a bondman" (v 17). It was not that he came immediately to the place of control, but he was "sold for a bondman". That is intended to appeal to our feelings and cause us to wonder at the way he moved.

D.E.R. Joseph's limitations came upon him because he was practically separate. Separation for us may involve limitation but our blessing lies in accepting it.

J.McK. Divine support will come that way. Again, if I may be allowed to repeat that phrase from Mr Darby's letters, we need to be in the place of His mind to prove His strength. He goes on to say that that is really the failure of Christendom. The great religious body is not in the place of His mind and therefore it is not proving His strength.

R.D.P. The word that was given to Paul, "My grace suffices thee" (2 Cor 12: 9), seems to enter into this because, naturally speaking, Joseph may have expected to be relieved of his imprisonment when he says to the chief of the sup-bearers, "bear a remembrance with thee of me" (chap 40: 14), but it says he "did not remember Joseph, and forgot him" (v 23). Some of our brethren go through this and sometimes may feel that things are lightening, something is happening, but in God's ordering He allows pressure to go on. I think Joseph brings out this matter very well because afterwards his feelings seem to become controlled while the exercise is worked out. Later he made himself known to his brethren; it is as if the exercises worked tremendous depth in his soul.

J.McK. So that it says in Psalm 105, "Until the time when what he said came about: the word of Jehovah tried him" (v 19). Now that is what you are saying, that it took time, a process of time. Think of those thirty three and a half years when the Lord Jesus was on the earth, what compression it was, and yet from another point of view, what an extended period that in that time a divine Person should accept the limitations of manhood.

Rem. "And he was there in the tower-house" links with that. It was no make-believe; it was real.

J.McK. That is fine. It seems as if it is emphasised: "And Joseph's lord took him and put him into the tower-house ... and he was there in the towerhouse", as if the Spirit of God would just arrest us. It is almost like a hiatus, that something should actually register with us. What is needed in meetings like this is not that we should necessarily be more informed about the truth but that we should get an impression that enters the soul as to the grace that brought Christ, Him who did no sin, into circumstances of restriction in order that others should be brought into blessing.

Ques. Is there something in the way that Joseph is prepared to listen to the exercises of one man, just the same as the Lord Jesus was prepared to listen to the exercises of one woman at Sychar's well and then speak to her about the Father?

J.McK. These two men both offended their lord. They were evil-doers, but they were put "into the tower-house, into the place where Joseph was imprisoned". Now, that is going to work out greatly to the advantage of these man. How close Christ has come in circumstances of manhood in order that we should get the benefit that flows from His interest, from His sympathy and from His power.

M.M. Is that what would help us to be assured that we are in the place of His mind that you quoted?

J.McK. It is there that we find His presence, do you mean?

M.M. We may go through a lot of soul exercise over this matter, may we not?

J.McK. I think so. The submission of the soul is a very fine thing. The poet refers to it: 'To claim supreme submission in my soul!' Do you know that poem? -

'But although His arm is power in the infinite expanse,

That same unerring arm is in control

To determine and to govern my every circumstance -

To claim supreme submission in my soul!'

That was by Robert Fear, was it not?

N.T.M. Robert Fear, a brother in Kilmarnock, was in the invasion force on D-Day and it is said he went on the deck and wrote that poem:

'He hath fixed the set proportions of the oceans and the land

According to the details of His plan;

He hath "measured out the waters in the hollow of His hand"

And "meted out the heavens with His span".

He controls th' unconquered orbit of ''the light that rules the day"

And guides the myriad worlds that shine at night;

And brings forth the host of heaven by their numbers to display

The uncontested brilliance of His might!

But although His arm is power in the infinite expanse,

That same unerring arm is in control

To determine and to govern my every circumstance -

To claim supreme submission in my soul!

Yes! and though He counts the nations as ''the dust upon the scale"

And soars above their triumphs and alarms,

He remembers all about us - that our frame of dust is frail,

And holds us in His everlasting arms'.

J.McK. 'To claim supreme submission in my soul!' The God of the universe has that right in regard of every one of us. I was thinking of another verse, if I might be allowed to refer to it: "For out of the prison-house he came forth to reign, although he was born poor in his kingdom", Eccles 4: 14. Now that is Joseph. He was born poor in his kingdom, in circumstances of poverty. The Lord Jesus knew that too. He knew the restrictions of poverty, and He came forth from that position to reign. So what these men proved was that the one who was going to rule was close to them.

D.E.R. That would encourage us because God's ways are not capricious but His love is behind them. It is all with a view to the securing of His purpose for each one of us and for the assembly, and what He has in view is blessing, and in His ways He may allow restriction and it is best for us to accept the restriction.

J.McK. Joseph says to these men, "Why are your faces so sad today?" That is a good question: here is· a touch of sympathy from a man who has accepted God's will as to his circumstances and he is in it for the blessing of others, Christ is available for our help.

Ques. Is it encouraging to see with the cup-bearer that he is restored? He is able to give pleasure to God typically, give joy to God's heart. Is that the end in view, do you think?

J.McK. I think so.

D.J.W. Does this section show how it works together: "all things work together", Rom. 8: 28. The way the Lord is working with you and with me and with others all works together to build something up. I was thinking of Matthew 25; they said to the Lord, "when saw we thee hungering, and nourished thee ... or in prison, and came to thee?" (vv 37-39). It brings something out in the body feeling of the saints, does it not?

R.D.P. Do you not get a touch here with Joseph of the vision we were speaking of? He says, "Why are your faces so sad today? And they said to him, We have dreamt a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said to them, Do not interpretations belong to God?" He lifts immediately from the drab surroundings into a realm of things where there is no limitation. It is as if he draws strength from that and the thing goes on from there.

J.McK. It is the language, typically of the great Mediator. He is not calling attention to himself, saying, I can give you the answer. He says, "Do not interpretations belong to God?" There is a key in that, in the typical teaching of It, that God was near to them in the person of Joseph and the answer came through him.

N.T.M. Is there any reference to the service of God in the cup here?

J.McK. There will be. You tell us.

N.T.M. The baker is full of himself but the butler is really thinking of God and His portion. Is that not something we should carry with us, no matter how small and few and weak we get?

J.McK. He had the benefit of Pharaoh in his mind, and the dream really testified to the fact that he was going to press the grapes into Pharaoh's cup. He was not thinking of himself, but it was only when he came into touch with Joseph that the whole thing became clear.

Ques. He was given his original position back. Why was that, do you think? He was not reduced in the ranks, was he?

J.McK. Recovery is a principle with God, is it not? The way that failure is met here is through Joseph. I believe there are many who have some apprehension of the truth but they do not really understand it because they have not the Person in view to whom it all relates. Mr Darby refers to some persons who have a knowledge of the truth but no knowledge of the Person who expresses it. These men found themselves in the presence of one who had done no wrong and he became the servant of those who had done wrong in view of their complete release.

P.H. Would you say that these limitations are not merely physical and circumstantial? One could suffer unjustly, be accused of having done something wrong which one has never done. We have to learn to bear injustices, would you say?

J.McK. It all links with what we have been quoting:

'To claim supreme submission in my soul!'

You are brought to say, If God has allowed this situation I will accept it.

N.T.M. In the prison would Joseph always show that it is better to suffer than to sin?

J.McK. He was imprisoned unjustly, accused unfairly, confined and yet uncomplaining. What an example! As we gather we are conscious of the pressures that are on the spirits of the brethren, but what shines through is the spirit of Christ in uncomplaining grace that accepts the whole thing from God. We are not to be governed by circumstances but be governed by God in them.

J.W. It is the sympathy of Christ that enables us to go that way; we could not do it of ourselves, could we?

J.McK. Joseph was thinking of the others. He says, "Why are your faces so sad today?" Now, he could have said, I have done no evil, why have I been put in this place of restriction? Instead of that he is concerned as to them and as to why their countenances are fallen.

R.D.P. Why is this so difficult for us to prove in practice individually? We see it in Joseph and it is fine to see it working out, but as soon as we find maybe there is a wrong accusation, we can find ourselves spending weeks, months, even years justifying ourselves and somehow we miss the benefit of these things.

J.McK. What you say is a real challenge. One of the things that has burdened me recently, if I may say so simply, is the danger of expending our energy on things that are not of great importance.

R.D.P. He could have spent all these years sending petitions. He seems to have accepted the total injustice. It is never mentioned again and, as far as we know, it was never put right. He was not brought out of prison because the accusation was withdrawn; it was for a completely different reason. It was as if he left it completely.

J.McK. The Psalm says "the king sent and loosed him". The time came when God released the pressure, but until then Joseph was prepared to accept it. It is like Mephibosheth who says, "Let him even take all, since my lord the king is come again in peace to his own house", 2 Sam 19: 30. What was governing the man was affection for Christ, purity of motive. What you say challenges us as to whether we expend energy on things that are not really too important.

R.D.P. I had a letter from someone who is still occupied about something that occurred many years ago, and there may even have been an element of truth in it, but he has missed practically the fellowship and the blessing for years because this thing has become an enormous obstacle in his mind, whereas to others it does not really affect the truth as such. It seems to be something that could easily be let go and yet obviously with this brother it is a massive thing. We need grace for these things, do you think?

J.McK. At bottom with many of these problems is our own reputation or imagined reputation. Joseph had none. He was in the tower-house as one of the king's prisoners and he was content to remain there until the time when it says “the king sent and loosed him".

D.E.R. The apostle Paul could have avoided being in prison in Rome, and Joseph could have avoided it too by just falling in with this woman's demands, but with Paul we see the motive which governed him; "For me to live is Christ", Phil 1: 21. It was love for Christ which caused him to take the part he did which in result meant that he was in prison.

J.McK. We should perhaps speak briefly of Philippians 1. Paul is writing to these beloved brethren in whom there was a unique work of God and he says to them, "But I would have you know, brethren, that the circumstances in which I am have turned out rather to the furtherance of the glad tidings". Now, they might not have understood that, but he says, I want you to know that that is so. I think it requires the spirit of Christ to accept restriction in this way.

D.B.B. Not exactly for his blessing but for “the furtherance of the glad tidings".

J.McK. It was for something greater than himself. He says, "so that my bonds have become manifest as being in Christ in all the praetorium and to all others". That is, it became perfectly obvious that, although it was a Roman chain that actually held him, what was really constraining him was his relationship with Christ.

D.J.W. Is it therefore necessary to have the longer view you referred to in relation to Job - "but now mine eye seeth thee"? Do we need the longer view rather than the short term one? In the short term it seemed a very great deal of pressure, but the long view was it had “turned out rather to the furtherance of the glad tidings".

J.McK. That is right. He says also, “for I know that this shall turn out for me to salvation, through your supplication and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ". That is, he is calling into view a whole system of help - "your supplication". If Paul had not been in these circumstances, the sympathy of these saints would not have been drawn out to such an extent. And then he says there is the "supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ", that is the resource from God's side that is pouring in to sustain this outwardly obscure and testing position.

D.J.W. I wondered if there was a wonderful example of this in the martyrs. Their martyrdom did not stop because their end was reached; it stopped because it was making more converts. Pressure was really bringing more to Christ.

J.McK. Well, God can turn things to His own advantage. It proves that God's ways are not man's ways. The whole principle of what we are saying today proves that, that God does things in a way that entirely perplexes man. Men cannot understand it and yet, His objectives being unchanged, God can work out His thoughts in circumstances of external restriction and difficulty. In Revelation 3 the Lord says, "I have set before thee an opened door" (v 8). That means that at one time the door had been shut. Those brethren had known what restriction was and the time came when the door was opened and there was a release from it, and that will be our blessed experience. There is no doubt about it.

A.K.T. Would 'the Spirit of Jesus Christ' have more emphasis on His manhood when here and the sufferings through which He passed?

J.McK. I think it would, the Spirit of that Man, the One who accepted the restriction and made room for God in it. Another has said that God was nearer to Christ than any circumstance, and although He was taken by wicked hands, taken by His foes and at one point made men's prisoner (we have spoken about Him being God's prisoner; He was also men's prisoner) tor a brief time. He accepted all in the light of divine supremacy. The supply of the Spirit of that Man is what is sustaining Paul as he refers to “the circumstances in which I am".

R.D.P. It seems also to give him a remarkable generosity of outlook; he even speaks about those who preach for envy and strife but, some also for good will. But then he says, "What is it then? at any rate, in every way, whether in pretext or in truth, Christ is announced". Is there not a very lovely generosity of spirit in that?

J.McK. He has a view of divine supremacy that will reach its own objective in spite of man's crookedness. He says, in effect, they might be doing it for the wrong reasons, but if Christ is preached I can see how God can use it.

R.D.P. He says in chapter 3, "As many therefore as are perfect, let us be thus minded; and if ye are any otherwise minded, this also God shall reveal to you" (v 15). There is a lovely spirit of generosity there. You may say, he could almost have made an issue at that point, but he says, God will reveal it. It is as if the tribulation had worked something with him which had resulted in the expansion of heart of which he speaks to the Corinthians (see 2 Cor 6: 13).

J.McK. And humility too. Paul is not centring all things on himself. Had he been, he would have said, I am restricted and imprisoned, I cannot preach any more, so things must stop. But he has the humility to realise that God can use others in this great work that He Himself is promoting amongst men. And that is still going on. We need to be subject to God's will and be in the spirit of humility that realises that He can operate on a wide front to bring about results for Himself. I think that is the way that we shall find divine support in the circumstances in which we are. Paul is referring to the circumstances in which he is. Your circumstances are not mine; mine are not yours, God knows them perfectly and He is able in them to work things out so that what is of Himself prospers.

N.T.M. In one sense death is the greatest limitation, but can we not learn from one another in our lives, our spirits and the way we are, how to accept things?

J.McK. Well, the Lord Jesus learned obedience a remarkable thing! (see Heb 5: 8). We need to learn it too, do we not?

A.K.T. Paul was prepared to die that Christ might be magnified and in actuality he did die.

J.McK. That is right.

The passage in 2 Samuel 7 is well known to the brethren. We do not need to say much about it. David is adjusted at this point through the skilful service of Nathan. I have been impressed, as reading this chapter, that at no point in Nathan's communication does he correct David. He never says, What you are proposing, David, is not right. But in the skill that God gave he brings David round to the point where he realises that God is bringing in a certain limitation on him and indicating that Solomon is the one who is going to build the house. From one point of view David is being restricted; from another point he is being extended because he is going to see what God has in Solomon and that that will be extended for His own pleasure.

R.D.P. It says, "According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak to David". It is almost as if it was more than words that he communicated. He communicated something of what another has called the vision of the Almighty.

J.McK. You would like to be able to bring in a prophetic word that actually brings God into a situation. In a sense Nathan did not need to adjust David; God did it through the word and He brought in something that was greater than what David was committed to. So it says, "And king David went in and sat before Jehovah", that is, he took this place of restful tranquillity in the presence of God Himself and what comes out in his soul is remarkable. We are not able for the detail of this passage, but we could get an impression of what came from David as a consequence of his accepting this restriction from God. He becomes a wonderful contributor to the service of God. He begins to speak about what God is in Himself: "And now, Lord Jehovah, thou art that God, and thy words are true, and thou hast promised this goodness unto thy servant; and now let it please thee to bless the house of thy servant, that it may be before thee for ever; for thou, Lord Jehovah, hast spoken it".

Ques. Is what he arrives at in Psalm 51 very remarkable? He ends with sacrifice.

J.McK. Well, it was a Psalm that began with repentance, but it ends on the highest note. Certainly here, although he no doubt felt the adjustment that was needed, as accepting divine supremacy in it, what results is an outflow of response that would not have been available otherwise.

 

13 March 1993

 

Key to initials

B.Bodman, Birmingham; D.B.Bodman, Birmingham; P.Hazell, Preston; R.Hutson, Bedford; J.McKay, Woodstock; K.Marshall, Rotherham; M.Matthews, Birmingham; N.T.Meek, Malvern; T.Moulden, Worcester ; R.D.Plant, Birmingham; D.E.Remmington, St.Albans; A.K.Turner, Rotherham; D.J.Willetts, Birmingham; J.Wright, Redbridge