PERSONS IN ACCORD WITH HEAVEN
DBR We began the week by singing hymn No.4 which speaks of being in accord with the homage of heaven. Our brother in thanksgiving spoke of being in accord with the mind of heaven and I felt that these persons of whom we have read are persons who are marked by that, of being in accord with the mind of heaven. The passages are well known to the brethren. Simeon undoubtedly is a vessel prepared of God. Earlier we have Zacharias and he represents the official line of the Aaronic priesthood, but Simeon would represent priesthood in a spiritual sense and he is also morally fitted to take the Babe into his arms. Someone has said in ministry that it was the most beautiful sight to see the priest with the child Jesus, in his arms. I think Anna represents the enduring quality of the work of God in the saints and she is also ready for the moment. It is very beautiful what it says of her, “she coming up the same hour gave praise to the Lord, and spoke of him”. She was in the light of what God was doing at the moment and she was in keeping with it suitably. Then I thought of the widow in Luke 21. The Lord Jesus is evidently affected by what He sees in this widow and she also is a person who is in line with the great movements of God. What we see in her is the ability to continue things, and the ability to continue things is based on sacrifice. The Lord was about to sacrifice Himself; it says here, “but she out of her need has cast in all the living which she had”. I thought we might be helped as we consider these persons, but before we do so I think we should take account of the first two or three verses that we read. It goes back to the offering in Leviticus 12 as the brethren know when the mother had to be cleansed, and there is the offering here, “A pair of turtle doves, or two young pigeons”. It comes down to the lowest offering specified. The offering to begin with was a yearling lamb for a burnt-offering and a turtle dove for a sin-offering. Evidently
His parents could not afford that so it comes down to the two turtle doves or two young pigeons. It shows that God was coming in in an outwardly small way in Christ. The offerings are important, the burnt-offering and the sin-offering. New ground was being opened up for man for his acceptance in the burnt-offering, and in the sin-offering there was that which would take away the pollution that sin had brought in. So we can see how the whole ground was cleared in the sin-offering and new ground established through the excellency of Christ in His offering for the acceptance of man. So the whole gospel has in mind good pleasure in men, and these offerings would be the basis of how men are secured. I wondered if we could be helped along these lines.
RJC I wondered whether God always has His vessels attuned to His own mind about things. Simeon evidently knew what was required in the way of offerings. I just thought of what it says after these three verses, “And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem” as if there were those prepared. Anna too; it speaks about “all those who waited for redemption in Jerusalem”. You think of persons like that who are wholly akin with God’s thoughts and God’s mind. I wondered whether He always has His reserves.
DBR Well, I think that is what these offerings have in mind; it is for securing suitable persons who are sensitive in their links with God, who understand what God is doing, and who are in keeping or in accord with the mind of heaven. I think it opens up a very sensitive line of things, man in sensitivity because of his links with God. So it is noticeable that the Holy Spirit is in such activity here.
NJH Would you expect to see the materials here in the divine presence coming forward now morally in the gold and acacia wood? I was thinking of what you said as to the enduring character coming out in Anna and the gold with Simeon.
DBR I think in an unofficial and moral sense Simeon appears as an anointed person because it says, “the Holy Spirit was upon him”. That is like the gold that was upon him; the acacia wood speaking of the perfection of Christ as we had in our hymn, but then God was pleased to put the gold upon it, and here is a man and I think the gold is upon him.
NJH Do you see something of these materials coming to light morally in the saints for the divine presence to be known? Is that right?
DBR It is essential that they should come forward if we are to be maintained in the mind of heaven or else we would drift from it. I think it is essential that they are seen in our own histories in a moral and spiritual sense.
GCMcK As has been remarked, there is a man in Jerusalem; God has never given up His thoughts regarding Jerusalem as typical of the assembly, so you can see the scope that there was in the affections of these persons by the Spirit, do you think? I was thinking of the fulness that is really in prospect in this passage, all God’s thoughts as to Jerusalem, and then the “light for revelation of the Gentiles” and so on. There is a wonderful opening out in this scene potentially of all that is to be secured for God’s pleasure.
DBR I think Simeon grasped that and he had the moral power to hold the Child in his arms, and in that Child was embodied every thought of God, the whole scope of God’s thoughts. When Anna speaks of redemption, I think she has the whole scope of God’s purpose in mind, not merely the meeting of the sin question but that redemption involves the establishment of ground for the working out of God’s purpose. These persons were in the light of that.
WL Was Simeon someone who was in keeping with the law of the Lord? It refers to it twice, and in verse 24 it says, “the law of the Lord—A pair of turtle doves, or two young pigeons”, and then immediately it says, “And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem”, someone who was in keeping with that, do you think?
DBR He was a man under regulation in that sense, not a freelance. That is what Christendom is producing, freelancers and free lines of thought. It is running away from the divine thought, but here is a man who is regulated in the law of the Lord and the mind of God.
WL I like what Peter says about being “established in the present truth”, 2 Peter 1: 12. One finds that a great test, the persons who have the mind of heaven. Am I in keeping with that?
DBR That is the mind of heaven and I think that is exactly what marks these persons; they are understanding because of their links with God and have the mind of heaven and are moving accordingly, they are moving suitably. These must have been occasions of great joy and great pleasure for the heart of God to see the movements of such persons.
WMP What was communicated to him by the Holy Spirit was not a surprise to him. You get a sense of familiarity in that way with the communications of the Spirit.
DBR That is very good, I think you should say some more about that because we are coming into a scene here which is marked by God’s speaking by the Spirit. It is very like what was to come into the assembly, and these are representative persons. They are far beyond the light of their own day, they had far more than the light of Jewish ground. It is embracing what God had in mind in bringing in the assembly, in bringing in the Gentiles really, do you think? So we are coming into an area where the Spirit is free, and where the Spirit has a confidante, because I think Simeon is really in the confidence of the Spirit; he is such a man that the Spirit can entrust to him these things.
WMP I just wondered if we have a real sense of that for ourselves, what our channels of communication are. Do they relate to what the Spirit is saying?
DBR It is very beautiful, “the Holy Spirit was upon him. And it was divinely communicated to him by the Holy Spirit”. The Holy Spirit is a term that Luke uses mainly in speaking of the Spirit, and I think this man is in keeping with that. He is really a holy man.
JSp The thought of communications is strong in Luke, is it not? You have it in the two women. Mary and Elizabeth, and here in Simeon, and then in Anna speaking to all those who waited for redemption. What do you think about this thought of communication?
DBR It says, “divinely communicated”; there is something very wonderful in that. What do we know of it? We are in days when the temple can operate because of the Holy Spirit dwelling in the saints. How much can we say of something being “divinely communicated” to us? I would like you to say more please.
JSp It has often been spoken of that the line of what is coming from heaven is flowing among the saints. It is a very real thing to be in a meeting where you are conscious that you are in the light of what is coming livingly from heaven and flowing in among the saints and affecting everyone here.
DBR That struck me as coming here that it is “the living and abiding word of God”, 1 Peter 1: 23. I think it is living because of the source that it comes from. So it is a living word that he gets here, and also it is an abiding word because it has the desired effect in these persons. So that as divine communications are known by the saints it is a very living matter. It says, “the living God’s temple” (2 Corinthians 6: 16), but then you see it is intended to have an abiding effect.
WL Would that be the desire of Paul in 1 Corinthians 2, “which also we speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, communicating spiritual things by spiritual means”, 1 Corinthians 2: 13? I think that would link on with what our brother is saying as to communications.
DBR I think it does very much and Mr Taylor said, as the brethren will know, that Luke presents pictorially what Paul presents doctrinally. I think we get a picture here of what is intended especially to come out in Paul’s ministry, so that in each place it can be said of the local assembly, “ye are the temple of God”, 1 Corinthians 3: 16. Later it says, “ye are the living God’s temple”, that is something that is advanced, and it had been proved that the living word of God was among the saints. That is really what meets the whole thrust of the enemy’s attack, and meets the whole thrust of what is prominent in Christendom today, it is the living word of God among the saints.
RJC I just wondered whether subjection is very necessary to get the mind of God and to embrace what God has in mind. I thought of the law of the Lord that has been referred to coming in twice. Simeon would be a subject vessel, one who can grasp these thoughts that God has in mind, do you think?
DBR Yes, he says, “thy bondman”. “Now thou lettest thy bondman go”, and earlier Mary says, “Behold the bondmaid of the Lord; be it to me according to thy word”, Luke 1: 38. I think subjection is possibly the most important and needed quality amongst us.
NJH We need help to understand the ground we are on, particularly in the assembly.
DBR Well that is why I thought these two offerings were important, one a burnt-offering and one a sin-offering. Everything must be in the light of the death of Christ. If we are to touch assembly ground at all, it must be that the ground has been secured in the death of Christ. The understanding of the removal of the kind of man that could never be in the presence of God, and the pollution that sin brought in, has all been met on the ground of the sin-offering. It has to be met in me too, but then the excellency of the burnt-offering is really the new ground of acceptance of man before God. It links with “taken us into favour in the Beloved” (Ephesians 1: 6), and unless we understand these two features of the death of Christ I do not think we can understand assembly ground, do you think?
NJH Noah’s communication of the warning was taking him out of the world, but this communication is bringing us into a new order of things outside of the world.
DBR That is exactly what is in mind, it is a whole new order of things, good pleasure not only in Christ, but good pleasure in men. All is patterned after the second Man who is out of heaven, but it involves men, it involves an assembly order of things.
JTB(Gr) In the scripture you referred to in Leviticus 12, the woman was deprived from touching holy things
and entering into the sanctuary. Do you think these two offerings that you have referred to qualify us for touching holy things and entering into the sanctuary?
DBR Yes, apart from them we cannot touch them. That is where Christendom has failed, it has set up man on unregenerate ground; as such he has no place before God. Everything must be on the ground of the death of Christ. I think what you say is important.
JTB(Gr) We have the privilege of touching holy things on account of the fact that we have appropriated the death of Christ, but we are also qualified to enter into the sanctuary; the sanctuary is the place where we can worship, where the mind of God has been known.
DBR You can clearly see how right it is that the service of God flows out of the Lord’s supper. In the Supper we touch holy things and we answer to the heart of Christ, but we do more than that, we answer with Christ, in association with Christ to God, and that is touching holy things, the greatest things. I think what you say as to Leviticus 12 is most important.
GCMcK It is noticeable in persons who receive these communications early in Luke, including this section, that one of the first things they do is that they actually address God; they praise and bless God, as if there is a responsive state which immediately answers to divine communications before there is any ministering to man.
DBR It is the way of liberty. How many of us have found it? How many of us have practically found the way of liberty? We are “become nigh by the blood of the Christ”
(Ephesians 2: 13), that is a general statement; but “through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father” (Ephesians 2: 18), involves actual experience. So that the ground generally is covered in the fact of the blood of Christ being shed, but then we have to prove it and that can only be in the living service of Christ and the Holy Spirit.
JAB Would the thought of communication that you are bringing before us be extremely close to communion?
DBR Yes, please say more.
JAB You are bringing in the necessity for a state in the one to whom things are communicated. You have in mind the state of spiritual readiness on the part of Simeon and Anna. What you are speaking about is fundamentally important to every one of us in this room, because we should all be conscious of divine communication, but we might not all be. If there is anyone here who has never been conscious of God speaking to them, then that is something that we can get help about in this reading. It is very simple what you are bringing in because it is so fundamental to our communion and our link with God. Say more about that; I see the importance of what you are saying as to assembly ground, but first of all we have to know when God speaks to us, and what He says to us, have we not?
DBA Well I think communion is most important, and I feel it is a necessary thing at the moment that persons are in communion with God. Mr. Darby says of communion that it is derivative, that is, we derive from it; that is a very fine thing. You go into the presence of God; it is more than prayer. Need can take us into the presence of God when we pray, and it is right to pray, we ought to pray more, but there are times in your prayer when you experience communion. I cannot think of a better word than Mr Darby uses, it is derivative, that is God imparts something to you in the time of communion. Now that is an essential experience, do you not think?
JAB I do, I feel the importance of it for myself. It is the consciousness of receiving something, and this is fundamental. I cannot live spiritually unless I am conscious of receiving something. These people you have read about in Luke received something, but you said in your prayer that you knew what was in God’s heart as far as the Lord Jesus is concerned. That is part of it, is it not?
DBR It is a wonderful part of it that God would disclose to you something of His feelings about Christ, so that is part of what is called the peace-offering. We have not only fellowship with one another, but we have
fellowship with God and we are drawn into the secret of God’s thoughts. That is a very wonderful thing, and you can understand why again Mr. Darby says the better name for it is a prosperity offering, because if you get this kind of thoughts from God it leads to soul prosperity. That is what marks these persons, they are in soul prosperity.
GAB It was divinely communicated, it was direct. Do you think we perhaps tend to rely on ministry, valuable as it is, but we might rely on that as a kind of a prop without getting things direct?
DBR I think it is important what you say. I certainly would be the last person to say anything against ministry, because I have gained so much myself from it and needed it so much, and the same with the Scriptures, but they are not intended to replace your links with God. These persons are marked by having links with God, they have a living touch with God, and therefore they are able to grasp the mind of heaven for the moment. It might be that it is a timely word for us, a timely word for me at any rate, that if we are to be in the secret of the mind of God for the moment it must be because we have sensitive links and communication with God, do you think?
GAB Well I just feel tested by it because reading is a very important thing and the ministry that we have had, it is vital that we should acquaint ourselves with it but it is not enough by itself. That is all I am exercised about.
DBR It is not enough and I think what has been raised as to communion is an important matter in the matter of communications.
JCG I was wondering whether the avenues of communication get clogged up on account of the lack of what is moral. This man was just and pious and the Holy Spirit was upon him. Do you think that that is a prerequisite in view of keeping the avenues of communication clear before God?
DBR I am sure that is right, say more please.
JCG Well, piety is stressed in the epistles, the necessity for it, and I think we see what is just in Christ and is the example for us, although it is remarkable what is said about this man of the remnant of Israel; but these are qualities that would help us and really are necessary before we can understand the reception of communications.
DBR So what is moral in our lives is an important matter, and I think we need to work out things in the light of the death of Christ and to keep near the cross, to learn daily that there has been a man judged there who could never be revived in the sight of God. “Our old man has been crucified” (Romans 6: 6), we have to learn to live in the light of that and learn to regulate our lives in the light of it. So at the beginning of Corinthians Paul provides them with two things, the cross of Christ and the Spirit of God, and I think these two things are important to work out the moral line in our lives, so that we are kept with our lines of communication clear towards God. Is that your thought?
JCG Yes, that helps, and Christ crucified, God’s power and God’s wisdom would help us in the way in which we understand communications from heaven?
DBR Yes, I think it does.
RG I was just going to ask if the psalmist had some sense of this when he typically speaks of the Lord, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”, and then he says, “thou art holy, thou that dwellest amid the praises of Israel”, Psalm 22: 1, 3. Some sense of the holiness of God is the result of a transaction with inhabiting the praises of a holy people, do you think?
DBR Yes, that is good. What a cry that was from the lips of the Saviour, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” It was a sure testimony that what He was bearing vicariously involved the complete removal of a line of manhood that could never please God, and it could only be removed through the sufferings of that One. That should affect us; I think it needs to come into our minds daily, often, and then as you say it opens up a holy area of things where persons are in communion with God. That is just what these persons are, they are persons who are in communion with God.
WL This would give us God’s viewpoint and as we get God’s viewpoint we will learn to distinguish and discern clearly the source of a thing.
DBR Just so, I think that is right, and to see where things are leading. Is the line of things leading towards God or is it leading away from God? That is a very simple thing to say but it is an essential lesson that all of us must learn. Where is a thing tending to lead; it may be a very small point but where is it tending to lead? If it is leading us away from God we must abandon it. I think what you say is important that communion really puts us in touch with the divine viewpoint.
JMar I was thinking of communion with regard to the emblems, “The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of the Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of the Christ?”, 1 Corinthians 10: 16. I think the receptive condition is needed in regard to the emblems.
DBR Yes, the emblems ought to have a voice to us. As you say they put us in touch with the most holy things; the Supper is a holy matter and the fellowship is a holy fellowship. We need to realise that, it is a holy fellowship, it is not an ordinary kind of fellowship, we are not just banded together because we have a certain set of views, it is a holy fellowship and it is governed by holy things. It is established in holy things, it is established on the ground that could only be secured through the death of Christ, a holy matter.
GCMcK Communications make way for the person do they, “the child Jesus”, they really are a great matter so that He comes in as it were into our view in a special way?
DBR It says, “he received him into his arms”. I remember somewhere, in Mr. Taylor’s ministry, where he refers to the arms of Simeon as representing moral power on man’s side to hold Christ on man’s side. Christ was coming in from God’s side; God was approaching men in Christ, but here was a man who had the moral power to answer to that and hold Christ on man’s side. How could we have an assembly service without holding Christ on man’s side? because if we are going to present something to God we must have it so that he is not only the anointed priest but he is the consecrated priest. Simeon is a consecrated priest, his hands are full of Christ. If the assembly function amongst us is to be living Godward it must be that we have Christ filling our hands and filling our hearts. That is the consecrated priesthood, do you think?
GCMcK Well it puts these things on a very spiritual and blessed level, that is what belongs to the assembly, that Christ there is rightly apprehended and held and leads us in the service.
DBR There could be no service apart from that.
JSp There is nothing else that is acceptable to God.
DBR There is only one order of man that is acceptable to God and the wonderful thing is that we are taken into favour in that order of man, we are taken into favour in the Beloved.
DAS I was thinking earlier as to the wonderful way the Lord introduces the Holy Spirit to the disciples and John. Further to what you were saying as to,
‘Now, in accord with the homage of heaven,
Rises a song from the hearts of Thine own’ (Hymn 4);
the Spirit was given on this basis, and He said of the Spirit that He “will bring to your remembrance all the things which I have said to you”, John 14: 26. So we have this wonderful power to communicate with us and announce to us, as in John 16, “whatsoever he shall hear he shall speak” (John 16: 13).
DBA I think it is important to speak of the Spirit because I have had a distinct impression that the Lord is saying something to us about the Spirit at the moment, pointing to the Spirit and pointing to the wondrous fact that the Spirit is actually here. I speak to Christians sometimes in other systems, and there are some of them very real, but most have the sense that the Spirit is a kind of influence who in some way governs or regulates their lives, but the Spirit is a divine Person and He is actually here. He is actually here in this room. That sobers you and yet it quickens you, because the fact that He is here in this room means that we have the ability and power to touch the greatest things. “He receives of mine and shall announce it to you”, John 16: 15. Mr. Stoney says if the church had been maintained in the light of that verse of scripture there would have been no breakdown. That is it would have been satisfied with the witness of the Holy Spirit about Christ, but failure came in and they lost sight of the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit. Now I think it is something that the Lord is saying to us at the moment in calling attention in a fresh way to the fact that the Spirit is with us in an abiding way.
RG No matter how bad the failure was that came in, the word remains, “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies”, Revelation 3: 22. That is a present thing.
DBR It is an avenue through which the Spirit can speak, the ear. We need not only anointed ears, but we need circumcised ears, and we need to apply the death of Christ to make sure the blood is there. So that our ears are not inlets for unholy things, because if our ears are inlets for unholy things we will do unholy things, that is how the thing takes place.
But if we have a circumcised ear it will be an ear that is tuned to what the Spirit says, and that is really what keeps us in the light of the mind of heaven. So we are not diverted from it, because if we are diverted from it where will we land? Where will we land if we are diverted from it? We could land anywhere; we will certainly not be in the assembly vitally.
WMG The Lord says, “He shall glorify me”, John 16: 14. Would that be the present service of the Spirit glorifying Christ to our hearts constantly the more we give Him place?
DBR We need to be concerned about the Spirit’s liberty amongst us. We speak about our own liberty and liberty to take part, that is all very good, and we are thankful that one and another has liberty to take part, but we should be more concerned that the Holy Spirit has liberty amongst us. There was only one gate that never needed to be repaired, that was the water-gate; so despite the breakdown, the Spirit has never broken down. The Spirit has always been available and there has always been an ear for the Spirit, I am sure of that; but may our ears be available to Him, and may the Spirit too be able, as He did to Simeon, to divinely communicate things to us. That is my exercise.
JMar Do we see a prepared place for the Spirit of God at the beginning of Luke?
DBR Yes, that is good, He did not come to the world, He came to the saints.
JMar There were vessels prepared for the incoming of Christ.
DBR That is very good, and vessels prepared for the incoming of the Spirit. That is what you have in mind. He did not come to the world. He bears testimony to the world but He is in the assembly, He is in the saints.
JMar There was no room for Him in the inn but there was room for Him in the manger because it was prepared by the Spirit of God.
DBR There is something more intimate than that, there was room for Him in the arms of Simeon; that is an intimate matter, he actually held Him. Are we holding Him? What is in our hands? I am speaking in a moral sense, what is in our hands? Is it just a whole store of knowledge or is it Christ? The answers to all our difficulties lie in Christ.
JMar He was in line with heaven; heaven must receive Him.
DBA Yes, very good.
JRC I was wondering about this sister, she was a prophetess. What is involved in that do you think, communications?
DBR Are you speaking about Anna? Go on, say more please.
JRC It is a qualification, “And there was a prophetess, Anna”. She would be able to say the right thing in the right place, and also what she had to say would be listened to.
DBR I think it is important what you say because she was a daughter of Phanuel of the tribe of Asher, and there are good things said about the tribe of Asher; one thing is that his foot is dipped in oil and I think that is seen in Anna here. She is a person whose movements are governed by the Holy Spirit, her foot is dipped in oil. And now it says, “she coming up the same hour gave praise to the Lord”, that is one thing, “and spoke of him to all those who waited for redemption in Jerusalem”. It was not exactly an evangelical word to the world at large (I am not saying we should not be evangelical), but this I think involved a holy circle. There was a holy circle of persons here, there were obviously other people here. We ought to have liberty and power to speak with one another and affect one another, but that really depends on our links with God. I cannot expect to have power in speaking to you or speaking to the brethren if I have not power in speaking to God and have some sense that God has communicated something to me. I think it becomes evident in ministry, not in cleverness in ministry, because we can do without cleverness in ministry, but what becomes evident in ministry is that there is a word of God in it for us, and that is what Anna had. She had the word of God, she was a prophetess.
DD In Revelation 22, “the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come”, Revelation 22: 17. Would that involve that persons are brought into the line of communication in relation to the Spirit, “him that hears”? Would that involve that persons are brought into communication with the Spirit, involving the unity of the Spirit possibly?
DBR It becomes effective in that way; that is how things become effective. One thing leads to another and the word becomes effective, and persons begin to take it on. Maybe persons begin to see that they have been on a wrong line, they have been following a wrong lead. There might be some sort of darkness even but then the word of God becomes effective, and persons begin to be affected by it, and they themselves begin to be effective. What you say as to the Spirit and the bride saying, Come, is very beautiful because it has been pointed out in ministry that this is the only word recorded that the bride ever says. There is no other word in scripture that the bride says, but she says, Come. It shows that she is completely absorbed with the Man and that is what divine communication leads us to, that our souls might be completely absorbed with the Man, with Christ. I think it would solve so many things amongst us.
WL Your word as to completion is important. The Lord says to Sardis, “I have not found thy works complete before my God”, Revelation 3: 2. I was looking at verse 39, “And when they had completed all things according to the law of the Lord”, there is completion.
There are so many loose ends, do you think, so many loose ends amongst us? We should be working with one another so that things are completed according to the law of the Lord. There is a divinely prescribed way of doing things.
DBR Yes, I am sure that is right. I think we need to be concerned because the Lord is coming soon; I do not think there is any doubt about that. I would not be among those who speculate about it, it is unwise to speculate about it because we do not know, but the Lord is coming soon. I am sure the brethren feel that and we want things ready for Him. We want to have true unity amongst us, and I think it comes in this line that we are brought into accord with the mind of heaven. Mr. Darby says in his hymn, ‘All the mind in heav’n is one’ (Hymn 14). You cannot think of heaven being divergent; the angels are included in that and men included in it.
JAB I suppose it would be right to say that the mind of heaven has never changed. Is that right?
DBR It would be impossible.
JAB You have been bringing before us the need to be in accord with the mind of heaven, but what we read about here as to the mind of heaven, as it were, focused on the moral glory of this Babe whom Simeon held, and the mind of heaven is still that, that persons like you and me might come more into the appreciation of this blessed One, is it not?
DBR Well, that is just it, and then you see another feature that marks Anna that we do not want to miss, is that she was marked by fasting and prayer. I wonder if any of us have ever fasted about an exercise. What do we know about it? If there is going to be moral power we will need to fast as well as pray. It does not mean exactly that you stop eating something, it is far more than that. It involves the giving up of legitimate things, but we need to fast, beloved brethren, and the sisters can have part in that. But make sure it is a fast unto God because in the prophet God says, “When ye fasted ... did ye really fast unto me, even unto me?”, Zechariah 7: 5. And He says, “rend your heart, and not your garments” (Joel 2: 13), that was an outward form of things, rending the garments. But rending the heart it is something that is seen by God, and Anna was marked by that. It says she was a prophetess, she had light from God. She had light from God when all the other people had not; all the doctors of the law in Jerusalem had not light from God. They were in darkness and the nation that should have known Him was in apostasy; but she was a woman who fasted and prayed and she had light from God, she was a prophetess. Well, this is the kind of line that we need; I am not speaking arbitrarily, I am speaking morally. We need this kind of line, persons who can bring in the mind of heaven because they know something about fasting and prayer.
JMet So redemption must be a wonderful matter. That is how things are going to be taken up again, is it not?
DBR Yes, I think it is good you bring that in because redemption really is in line, it is the ground upon which God secures His purpose. It is far beyond the meeting of the sin question and meeting the sinner’s need. All that is included and is incidental, but Paul, when he speaks of redemption, says, “the redemption which is in Christ Jesus”, Romans 3: 24. It is the Man in His fixed position according to God’s purpose and that is really what redemption secures; it secures the purpose of God, and Anna is in the light of that.
JMet Does it mean that we love one another?
DBR Well it would involve that. You can see that Anna is in touch with a circle where persons would love one another and where they speak often one to another.
JMet What you said earlier about the abiding word of God, it is there that persons are born again in view of loving one another fervently, brotherly love, having been secured by the abiding word of God.
DBR It brings you into the circle where the divine nature is formed in the saints and that is a very wonderful thing. We should have a word on Luke 21 before we finish.
WMP Was it your thought that she was really in accord with the way that Christ was going? Was that your thought in the passage?
DBR I would like to tell you what Mr Stoney said about it, better than what I could say. He says this woman was morally greater than Solomon, because Solomon out of his abundance provided for the building of the temple, but this woman out of her poverty provided to maintain the thing. Now we are in the day when things have to be maintained. Mr Renton kept saying to us it is not the time for bringing out new things, and he was right. It is a time for maintaining things, it is a time to be exercised that the ground is held until the Lord comes. We show forth His death until He comes. That is the time we are in and this woman, I think, set out that. On the principle of sacrifice she is prepared to maintain the treasury of God.
NJH Actually what Solomon gave was not his own, it came from David but this was what the woman had. All she had, she gave, is that right?
DBR It says, “she out of her need has cast in all the living which she had”. That is what will guarantee that things will be maintained until the Lord comes, where the principle of sacrifice is maintained among the saints.
TDB Paul says to Timothy, “be wholly in them” (1 Timothy 4: 15), using all his time and energies.
DBR That is very fine, because all this woman’s energies were expended in this way.
It says, “he looked up and saw the rich casting their gifts into the treasury; but he saw also”. That is a fine word, “he saw also”. Something arrested the Lord’s attention.
Are we persons like that? The Lord is looking on, He is taking account of things, He is taking account of just where we are in our individual and in our collective relations. The Lord is taking account of things. It says, “he saw also a certain poor widow casting therein two mites”. There is a little poem that speaks about the balance of the sanctuary, and the author speaks about these two little mites tipping the scales, they tipped the scales. Think of the great weight of the abundance of the wealth that was being cast in by the wealthy but the two mites tipped the scales. That was the balance of the sanctuary; they were weighed according to the divine assessment and that is how things are being weighed in relation to each one of us. Things are being weighed on the principle of divine assessment. God is taking account of what we are doing and what we are saying. He is taking account of all our activities, He is taking account of the counsels amongst us. Do not make any mistake about that, God is doing that, He is assessing everything. The Lord is taking account of things and what He sees here affects His heart.
WL It has been said that this widow brings out the fact that she is morally greater than the whole structure of the temple.
DBR Exactly, the Lord set it aside, as much as to say that the temple was not great enough to hold what this woman represents. It was really Herod’s temple. He must remove it, and it is making way for the assembly. I think that what we see in this woman is really the embryo of what you find in the assembly.
WL We should let presumption be far from us, but there should be something of that with us today; there is something morally greater, spiritually greater, than anything that is in the world, be it religious or not.
DBR I think a certain obligation lies upon us because there has been a great opening up of the truth in the recovery and divine grace has brought us into that. I often think of that, that divine grace has brought me into it. Divine grace does not make you think much of yourself; I think divine grace subdues you, it subdues the vessel, and I think we need to accept the obligation to maintain things morally in line with the mind of heaven.
WL It is a good question to ask ourselves, where has the great deposit been entrusted? It can only be kept by the Holy Spirit which dwells in us.
DBR That is the only way it can be kept, by the Holy Spirit. It is not by human determination, it is not by the power of human argument, it is by the Holy Spirit. That is how things are being maintained, and on the principle of sacrifice.
KNP I was just noticing that it is “out of her need”. It is interesting that both Simeon and Anna were going on in faith and I wondered whether that was a necessary feature that was seen in this woman too. They were not depending on themselves, they were not depending on anything they had naturally, they were depending on their communications from heaven. This woman too was not depending on anything she had naturally, she gave all that up and she had everything in faith because she knew One who was far greater than anything that was in the system here.
DBR I think what you point out is very good. I do not want to bring in anything that I should not bring in but you know there is a system, and we had part in it, and it has become very wealthy; but what does it mean? To me it means nothing because the whole system is dark. We had part in it ourselves, that dark system, and it is very active at the moment and we need to be warned against that. They could buy you if you were prepared to be bought by them; they could buy any young person in this room if they are prepared to be bought by them. The woman cast in out of her need. I do not think we can take the ground of being very much, but we have sufficient if we are prepared to use it.
GCMcK So the widow character has to be maintained amongst us?
DBR It is maintained and you find we have enough; a widow maintains a prophet and a widow can maintain a prophet today. We do not need millions of pounds, but what we need is committal, on the ground of sacrifice, to what God is proceeding with and God will support us. He is a God of recompense. If we are going to continue with what began in moral power in the recovery, it must be on the principle of sacrifice.
DCB Timothy makes reference to the widow, “Now she who is a widow indeed, and is left alone, has put her hope in God, and continues in supplications and prayers night and day”, 1 Timothy 5: 5. That is literally a widow but it gives the character of the position.
DBR That is helpful, and Anna also, eighty-four years a widow; she was truly a widow, but all her life in the power of devotion she was set to be in line with the mind of heaven. I think what you quote in Timothy is important, a widow indeed!
GAB I was thinking of the verses following where we read, the whole of the next section. They refer to things that are just about to collapse and disappear; the temple itself only lasted a few more years after this. Some other scriptures refer to things which are there to this day. You might say that of the Spirit, what He has done is here to this day.
DBR Yes, very good, I think that spirit is among the saints, the widow spirit, and it needs to be maintained. We need to feel that Christ is not here. We go to the Lord’s supper tomorrow, and the main thing we are feeling is that Christ is absent; we go to remember Him, “this do in remembrance of me”, 1 Corinthians 11: 24. All that involves the widow spirit, and I think the maintenance of things amongst us involves the spirit of this widow, and that is the spirit of sacrifice.
Reading at Glasgow
22 February 2003
KEY TO INITIALS
T. D. Beveridge
D. Duthie
J. Marshall
D. C. Brown
R. Gardiner
J. Metcalfe
G. A. Brown
J. C. Gray
W. Patterson
J. A. Brown
W. M. Grosse
K. N. Pye
J. T. Brown (Gr)
N. J. Henry
D. B. Robertson
R. J. Campbell
W. Lamont
J. Spinks
J. R. Cumming
G. C. McKay
D. A. Steven