THE GREAT PRINCIPLES OF RULE AND LIFE IN CHRIST
[p. 360] THE GREAT PRINCIPLES OF RULE AND LIFE IN CHRIST
FER I would suggest for our reading the subject of the relation of Christ to the world, and the great principles of rule and life in Christ.
We get one point in chapter 2: “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the whole world”, which seems to indicate the position which Christ occupies in regard of the whole world.
Ques What do you understand by that expression?
FER Propitiation is a point where the mind of God is favourable in regard to the whole world, that is, in Christ.
Ques As regards the sins of the whole world?
FER Yes.
Ques Then it is not the idea of expiation?
FER No; I think propitiation is the point where God is favourable.
Ques Do you connect it at all with the mercy-seat?
FER It is the same sort of thought.
Ques Is it the same in Romans 3: “Whom he hath set forth to be a propitiation”?
FER Yes.
Ques Brought the world into the favour of God?
FER I would not go so far as that, but God is favourable to all men.
Ques Do you speak of the world as including all nations of the earth?
FER Including all men.
Ques The reconciliation of the world spoken of in Romans 11 is on that ground?
FER Yes.
[p. 361] Rem You distinguished this morning between the world as an organised system, and those who inhabit it.
FER Yes; I think Scripture does. All that organised system came under judgment — “the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me”. But you get another expression — “God so loved the world”; it is not an organised system there, but the people in it. So here, “He is the propitiation ... for the whole world”.
Ques “Love not the world” — what is that?
FER That is the world morally. It goes on to say, “All that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world”.
Ques Do you connect this thought of propitiation with Christ being Head of every man?
FER I do. I think that is the point in John’s writings, especially in the gospel. The Son of God has come, but He is viewed in relation to the world. He is “the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world”. He came down, not to condemn, but to save the ‘world’. “The bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world”. The same thought is carried on in the epistle. “He is the propitiation ... for the whole world”. It is the width of grace that comes into view.
Ques “The Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world”?
FER Exactly.
Ques In Romans you get the propitiation, and in chapter 5 Christ the Head of every man. Is it the same thing?
FER The last Adam is the mercy-seat.
Ques Is the width of God’s favour as far as the width of Satan’s evil?
FER Yes; all is by one Man. “By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned” — then after the parenthesis it is — “so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life”. All men come into view because Christ is the propitiation for the whole world. Instead of all being in a state of alienation, the world has come into reconciliation by Christ, that is, on the divine side.
Ques The ground of that is that He gave Himself a ransom for all?
FER Exactly. Christ discharged every liability under which man was; hence it is: “Through one righteousness towards all men unto justification of life”.
Rem Say a word on liability.
FER I think men lay under the liability by God’s judgment, death and the curse, which it was entirely impossible for man to discharge.
Ques While you say He took up the liabilities under which man lay, you would not go so far as to say He bore the actual sins of every one?
FER No, I should not say that at all; but I think you must allow the full bearing of redemption. It is the discharge of all liabilities, and its bearing is toward all. Righteousness of God is toward all — through “one righteousness towards all men”. So Christ is the Mediator between God and men, and God would “have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth”. The mind of God is toward all men — the coming in of Christ has changed everything.
Ques Please compare chapter 3: 5 and chapter 2: 2. What is the difference?
FER I do not know. He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him was no sin. I should connect this with what we get in 1 Corinthians 15, “Christ died for our sins”. It is a very general thought.
Ques Is not the great point of this chapter “Abiding in him”?
FER The first point is to establish the position of Christ in regard to the world.
Ques Reconciliation was by death, was it not?
FER Yes; I think so. But it is in Christ.
Ques How do you take the latter part of 2 Corinthians 5, “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself”?
FER Death had to come in in order that the liabilities of men might be discharged, but reconciliation is not exactly death; it is in Christ Himself.
Ques That is, Christ was the point of it?
FER Quite so; He was and is the point of reconciliation. God has not suspended reconciliation. The point of reconciliation is still there, and the bearing of it is much wider now than even when Christ was upon earth.
Ques “God was in Christ, reconciling the world”?
FER Yes.
Ques Would you say a little word as to the extent of redemption?
FER Redemption referred to God’s inheritance, and if God saw fit to take up all men as His by creation, He was entitled to do so.
Ques Is not the thought connected with redemption — that God had the right to take it up?
FER Man belonged to God by His right of Creator, and He takes everything up, not simply on that ground, but by the right of redemption.
Rem I think you spoke one time about redemption being connected with the sovereignty of God and the purpose of God.
FER I have no doubt it is the way to the accomplishment of God’s purpose; but in Romans 3 it is the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, its bearing is towards all. The righteousness of God is the rights of God, and God had rights of redemption. The law expressed what you may call the natural and primary rights of God, then God came out in [p. 364] redemption right in Christ to take up the liabilities under which man was.
Ques Is salvation a larger term?
FER Salvation comes in consequent upon righteousness. If you have not righteousness of God, you could not get salvation. There could be no salvation so long as man was labouring under liabilities in regard of God. The children of Israel could not have been brought through the Red Sea if there had not been the blood in Egypt.
Ques Is there not a thought of the inheritance belonging to the Redeemer before He could come in?
FER Yes. It is the man who has the rights of the property that can effect redemption.
Rem But the Lord Jesus Christ come in flesh had a distinctive place to take up certain rights.
FER He comes in to take all up on behalf of God.
Rem Yet you could hardly say that God does actually take up His rights in regard of all men.
FER God has done so — in Christ. Christ is said to be a light of the Gentiles and God’s salvation to the ends of the earth. Men were in darkness and alienation, but now “the grace of God that bringeth salvation to all men hath appeared”.
Rem The world organisation denies that.
FER The world organisation is Babylonish.
Ques Do you mean that man comes into a place of relation with God?
FER I would not go so far as that. I think God has assumed a place in regard to men. You must take it on the divine side.
Ques Would it be right to say that whilst redemption has its bearing towards all men, only those who believe on the Son of God have their part in it?
FER The scripture is plain in regard to that in Romans 3: 22 - 24: “Righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ towards all ... through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus”. When we come into it, we can take it up and say, “In whom we have redemption”. I suppose the gospel could not be preached if it were not toward all men.
Ques Then if the gospel were not world-wide in its bearing, it could not be preached to all?
FER No. Grace and righteousness are in Romans 3 almost interchangeable terms.
Ques Do you connect grace with redemption?
FER Yes; so also righteousness.
Rem The connection of grace and righteousness is a very interesting and important point.
FER The way in which righteousness of God has come out is in grace toward all men; but then it is righteousness on the part of God. Redemption undoubtedly means grace toward all men.
Ques So that you could hardly have a more wonderful expression of His grace?
FER God takes very good care of His own rights, and He had the right of redemption. He chooses to come out in that right in grace to man; but then redemption is an expression of the righteousness of God.
Ques “Being justified freely by his grace” — does not that link righteousness and grace?
FER Yes. You have in that verse righteousness, grace and redemption inseparable. Redemption is the discharge of liabilities — Christ came to discharge all liabilities in regard of all men.
Ques What was due was due to God?
FER Yes; there were liabilities which God had imposed, and it was in the right of God to discharge them. God came in in Christ to discharge them, and Christ has come in as the Mediator between God and men.
Ques There is no point of Satan having any [p. 366] rights?
FER All the rights are taken out of the hand of Satan by redemption.
Ques What is the difference between redemption and purchase, “He bought the field”?
FER Redemption is in Christ — that is more than purchase.
Rem But purchase might be without any previous right whatever.
FER Quite so.
Ques Could you say in 2 Peter 2 — even denying the Lord that ‘redeemed’ them?
FER No.
Ques In Matthew 13 He bought the field for the treasure?
Rem But that is more the thought of ‘bought’ than redemption.
FER “Denying the Lord that bought them” — such were not in redemption. We are always mixing up our side with God’s side. You will never see anything right on our side if you do not see it on God’s side.
Ques Is it not important that it is the “redemption that is in Christ Jesus”?
FER Quite so; but that is in God’s ways to men. I could not say that all men are redeemed, but I could say that God has come out in the right of redemption, and it has its application to all men.
Ques There is redemption to all men?
FER Yes.
Ques The bearing of redemption being towards all is not teaching universal redemption?
FER No. The point is that in virtue of redemption Christ stands in a certain position in regard of all, and that all are being tested by Christ. There are two things in Christ in regard of men — one is kingdom and the other is light. All are being tested by them. If there is kingdom, man has to come under rule. If there is light, man has to come out of darkness.
[p. 367] Ques When you speak of men being tested, of course it is those who have heard these things. What about those who have not?
FER I cannot say; I leave that to God.
Rem The gospel is the test now (John 3): “He that believeth not is condemned already”.
FER That is the Jew.
Ques “This is the condemnation, that light has come into the world” — that had its application to the Jew?
FER The wrath of God came upon the apostate Jews for their rejection of Christ. The wrath of God is coming on all men if they reject the gospel.
Ques What do you make of “By nature the children of wrath, even as others”?
FER Man was obnoxious to wrath; but God has approached man in Christ, and now man is being tested by Christ.
Ques What are man’s liabilities?
FER That under which man was — death and judgment. Christ took all, was made a curse; died for us; entered into the judgment of God. The Jew was tested by Christ and the wrath of God came upon them — they were not subject to the Son.
Ques Do you draw a distinction between the judgment of God and the wrath of God?
FER Wrath may be more governmental. Judgment goes further.
Ques “Now is the judgment of this world” — would not that take in Jew and Gentile?
FER All the world is subject to the judgment of God, yet the judgment of God does not come in. How do you account for that? The truth is, it is explained by the fact of a Mediator coming in on the ground of redemption, the whole position is changed, and the world is brought provisionally into reconciliation and standing in the goodness of God. God is a Saviour God toward [p. 368] all men.
Ques God has created that position?
FER Yes; you have only to contrast Romans 3 and 11.
Rem In the preaching of the gospel the judgment came in in Acts 10.
FER Yes; but that is no comparison. It only goes so far there as to state the truth that Christ is the One appointed of God to be the Judge of the quick and the dead, and then Peter goes on to unfold the present position, “To him give all the prophets witness”.
Rem But that does not necessarily involve the great white throne, “Judge of the quick and dead”.
FER I suppose it goes on to it.
Rem Judgment of the dead — it must go on to the great white throne — “quick and dead”.
Ques Does propitiation lead to reconciliation?
FER Propitiation is more the basis of reconciliation. The two are very intimately connected. Christ is the propitiation, and you could not have reconciliation without propitiation.
Ques You could not have anything without propitiation?
FER No; it is the ground of everything. Men are now being tested by Christ, and what is presented to man in Christ is kingdom and life. The kingdom is rule, and I think men are being tested by those two things.
Ques It is what you meant at the beginning when you said Christ takes a place in relation to the world for rule and life?
FER The great point now is, man is declared to be lawless, and the question is, will he come under the sway of God?
Rem That is why the gospel of the kingdom was preached in the Acts.
FER Exactly. Christ has come in as the Sun of righteousness, and “he that abideth in him sinneth not”. Then life comes in by the Spirit and is seen in love to the brethren: “We know we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren”.
Ques And could the testimony be carried to the remotest corners of the earth?
FER You want to carry the kingdom and Christ.
Rem Paul speaks of “obedience of faith among all nations”.
FER Yes, that is it. The first thing is to come into righteousness, and the next thing is, you come into life.
Ques What is the difference between salvation and life?
FER The two go together. Salvation accompanies life.
Ques With reference to the kingdom — how does the kingdom test man?
FER I think the expression of the kingdom is in Christ. Christ is the centre and Sun of the divine system, and the way by which man comes into righteousness is by the attraction that is in Christ — Christ being the Sun of righteousness. The point is whether men will come into righteousness. Christ is the perfect and full expression of God’s righteousness, and the point is — will man come into righteousness?
Ques How will that test man?
FER It serves to bring out whether man will answer to grace. God is presenting Himself in grace to man in Christ, and man is responsible in regard of the gospel.
Ques Where does believing come in?
FER Believing is the effect of the presentation. The apostles went about preaching the kingdom of God everywhere, and it was accepted in faith.
Ques It is a question whether man will bow to Christ and own Him as Lord?
FER Exactly. The question is whether man [p. 370] will accept the grace of God and come under the moral sway of grace, and thus receive the kingdom.
Rem You could not limit a man’s responsibility to his reception or rejection of Christ and the gospel.
FER I think it is a very serious responsibility, and man’s responsibility at the present moment is in regard to the gospel. The Lord Himself says, “He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned”. “This is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another”. It is the ordinance of God. A man has to come into judgment because he has been in lawlessness. I think the presentation of grace and redemption in Christ is the power of attraction to man. God is appealing to man on the ground of redemption, and the point is whether man is content to come in on that ground. If he does, he gets living water, so that he comes into life.
Ques Would you say that growing up to salvation and coming to Christ as the living stone is concurrent?
FER Salvation and life are concurrent, and everything is in Christ, whether salvation or life. “I have set thee a light to the Gentiles, that thou mightest be my salvation”. It is an immense thing to see the peculiar character of this moment, when God has reckoned up the whole world, and all the world is subject to the judgment of God, but instead of the judgment coming in, God is shown as favourable in regard of all. It is a vindication of God. God’s grace towards all men hath appeared, and the point is whether men are content to find righteousness in Christ. If they are, they get the gift of the Spirit so that they may come into life.
Ques Is it not at that point that intercession comes in?
FER We are to pray for all men, because God [p. 371] would have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. (See 1 Timothy 2: 1 - 4.)
Ques Then God has not one disposition towards us and another disposition towards the heathen?
FER No. It is a wonderful thing to see that everything that is in Christ is God’s thought for all men — whatever is presented to man in Christ. It is not simply for the elect, it is His thought for all men. The Son of God was revealed in the apostle that he might preach Him as glad tidings among the heathen.
Ques Do we think sufficiently of the heathen today in connection with that?
FER Perhaps not. Christ is the righteousness of God; now the point is, He becomes righteousness to those who believe.
Ques Is the force of “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved” the way into blessing?
FER You get that thought in Romans, “with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation”.
Rem Say a little word about abiding in Him.
FER It is a beautiful expression, “He that abideth in him sinneth not”; you can come to perfection. I think it is a great thing to see there is a way to perfection. “He was manifested to take away our sins, and in him is no sin” — He is the Sun of righteousness. There are spots in the sun, but there is no dark spot in Him — and “He that abideth in him sinneth not”.
Ques Is that the way the truth makes us free?
FER Yes, I think so.
Ques If we always lived in respect to Him, we should not sin?
FER Exactly, because there would be the setting aside of the whole principle of sin in you. We want simply to be in the hands of Christ down here — that is, under His influence; and being under His influence [p. 372] I do not care for anything that does not suit Him, and I get a sense of what does suit Him.
Ques What is the connection between perfection and purifying oneself even as He is pure?
FER I think that is the result of having “this hope in him”.
Ques Is that the idea of abiding in Him?
FER The effect of abiding in Him is that you get His mind. There are most wonderful things in Christianity, and one is that you can go through the world, and instead of looking at things according to man, you can look at them according to Christ — I get His intelligence.
Ques Do we not get a beautiful picture of the kingdom of God in the man “sitting, clothed, and in his right mind”?
FER Exactly. He was morally under the sway of Christ. He wanted to be with Him. That was not the Lord’s mind for him and He sent him to his friends. I think you see the same thing in the disciples around the Lord. The influence of Christ ruled them, though they were very poorly in His mind, for they wanted fire to come down from heaven to consume the Samaritans because they would not receive them. The Lord said, “Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of”. They were not up to the mark. They were of His spirit properly speaking, but His spirit would not command fire to come down from heaven.
Ques Those who went out to David were greatly influenced by David?
FER Quite so.
Ques That gives wonderful liberty both in going out to others and in your own path too?
FER I think so.
Ques You said life is a test — in what way?
FER I think living water is a test. It is presented to all and becomes a test to men. All men are tested by what we get at the end of Revelation:
“[p. 373] Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely”. The Lord makes a kind of final appeal, saying, “I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star”, and then: “And let him that is athirst come”.
Ques I suppose the woman in John 4 was tested by the Lord in that way?
FER I think so: “If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water”.
Ques What is the living water?
FER It is, I suppose, a symbol of the Spirit of God.
Ques May one individual be tested by the one test, and another by the other test?
FER I think it is possible, but I should think the great general test is Christ, because it is Christ who stands in relation to all men.
Ques If you get the living water it is from Him?
FER Exactly; but Christ is the test.
Ques Is there any difference between the water of life and the living water?
FER I do not know of any.
Rem I thought that one is the Spirit, and the other is Christ.
FER I should be inclined to think that both refer to the Spirit.
Ques Is it life in the power of the Spirit?
FER I do not think so. I think it is very much more the Spirit as life.
Ques Do you connect that with John 20?
FER Yes.
Ques What relation has that to “open blind eyes”? That is part of the gospel.
FER Yes — so Christ is a covenant to open blind eyes. People talk much about the new covenant, but really [p. 374] it is Christ.
Rem It seems a very great point — “abiding in him”.
FER And so it is. How would the earth get on if it did not abide in the sun? So everything depends on our abiding in Christ. If you do not abide in Christ you will get no rain, no fertility, or anything else.
Ques So that Christ is presented objectively?
FER Yes.
Ques There is attraction?
FER Yes; you are attracted and then attached, and when you get attachment you abide in Him. Attachment is by the Spirit, and when that has come in you become fruitful; Romans 7: 4. We are joined to Christ who is the Husband, and the result is, we bring forth fruit unto God, because we come under the influence of sunshine and rain. What would the world be without sunshine and rain?
Rem In reference to testing, if God is not at work in souls, there would be no response to the test.
FER That is another line. There is nothing more important than to keep distinct in mind the situation which God forms, and the work of God in man — the way by which He effectuates His purpose.
Rem The situation is the subject of gospel testimony.
Rem Paul preached the gospel to the whole creation, and “as many as were ordained to eternal life believed”.
FER “He that abideth in him sinneth not” — the thing that I covet is to have the mind of Christ in regard to whatever meets me in the world — to look at it with His eyes. That is, Christ in me.
Rem That is being in the intelligence of Christ.
FER Yes, the one is the effect of the other. If we abide in Him we are in His intelligence.
Ques And at the same time the sensibilities of Christ are [p. 375] in you?
FER Yes; all the gracious feelings that you get in Colossians 3.
Rem Abiding in Christ you have the mind of Christ.
FER There is another thing in the end of the chapter. We could not talk about life without an atmosphere and a circle of love.
Rem Explain what you mean by that.
FER “We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren”. It is among the brethren that you get the circle and atmosphere of love. Otherwise there would be no such thing as life.
Ques Then love is the atmosphere?
FER Yes; and the brethren are the circle. That is a very important point. First, abiding in Christ and Christ in us. Next, finding yourself in the circle and atmosphere of life, which is love. Then you get the proof and evidence of love, that is, that you get what you ask of God.
Ques There is a verse in Psalm 37: “Delight thyself in the Lord, and he shall give thee the desires of thy heart” — is that what you mean?
FER Yes. You have only to wait on the Lord and in due time you get your petitions. The Psalms are extremely beautiful. You have to wait on the Lord; do not fret yourself, and He will give you the desires of your heart. You may not get it at the moment. People want some sort of miraculous answer to their prayers, but are not fit for it.
Rem I have been struck with Luke 11 — the necessity of waiting, and the importunity of prayer.
Ques You must know that you have a hearing?
FER Yes.
Ques What John calls “abiding in Christ” would Paul call walking in the Spirit?
FER It is hardly the same idea. I think walking [p. 376] in the Spirit would be a consequence of abiding in Christ.
Ques It is the way it works?
FER Yes, I think so.
Ques So there must be a company to be in the atmosphere of love and to enjoy life?
FER Yes; but I say circle and not company. I think there is a company, only let your mind take in the whole Christian company. I never object to talking about a company, if your thoughts take in the entire company. If we cannot come into contact with the entire company, we must make the best of those we can come into contact with. Some people fret themselves because there are better Christians in system than are amongst us. That may be so, but they are not available, you cannot get at them.
Ques How could they be better if they are lawless?
FER They may be more true to the light they have. I was only taking people up on their own statement. I would be prepared to admit their proposition.
Ques How is it one cannot get at them more?
FER Because we are not up to the mark; there is such a lot of brethrenism about us. We are in terrible danger of getting peculiarities and habits formed by our particular association. We have to guard against that.
Ques Do you not think we have been disciplined by God in connection with that?
FER I think so. We ought to get into the thought of individuality. The individual comes into view in Revelation 2 and 3: “He that hath an ear”. We have to look to it that we have an ear.
Ques Is there not a kind of thought that we ought to get all these sort of Christians amongst us?
FER Amongst whom? What you want is to get them out of that in which they are [p. 377] entangled.
Ques The tendency is to get into isolation?
FER That is an impossibility. We have all been made to drink into one Spirit — this is sure to hinder anything like isolation.
Rem If brethren are in the enjoyment of what they have got, it seems to me that others should share the good things with them.
FER I think that is the legitimate way.
Rem I think sometimes in dealing with other Christians we have failed — we have been so anxious to make proselytes of them.
FER We have to count upon God for ability to approach other people, but I think it is a great thing to be happy with those with whom we are more immediately linked.
The check to worldliness and worldly ways is to love the brethren.