SACRIFICE
AMB These scriptures all refer to sacrifice, and I wondered if we could enquire into that matter together and get help from it. I noticed an interesting remark in ministry that sacrificing is, in a way, the very essence of Christianity (JT vol 86 p30), which is something to think about. In looking at any subject in scripture, it is good to start with Christ. In Ephesians we have read of Him as the One who “delivered himself up for us, an offering and sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour”. We might feed our souls on that matter as speaking together of the sacrifice of Christ in love - He sacrificed Himself for us in love for us. His sacrifice was to God, and it was excellent, incomparable, eternal and acceptable. That is conveyed in the thought of His sacrifice being “to God for a sweet-smelling savour”; it was altogether acceptable to God.
The scripture in Psalm 50 no doubt speaks of a day still to come but coming soon, when Christ will appear: “Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined forth”, and when the believing remnant of the Lord’s earthly people, Israel, will be gathered, “those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice”. We might apply the scripture more broadly to ourselves, and to the principle of sacrifice. It conveys the thought of piety, of godliness, characterising those who sacrifice. These words, “those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice”, also show how God takes account of the sacrifices of His people. We are not speaking here about literal burnt-offerings and peace-offerings, which once were the part of the people of Israel, and we would gather will be so again, but the sacrifices that belong to God in the present time from believers who are acceptable to Him and are received by Him. The thought of a covenant with God by the sacrifice of the people suggests God’s recognition and approval of sacrifice, and also of moral power attaching to those who sacrifice, those who are prepared to give up what is theirs for the glory and pleasure of God.
We might consider the thought of sacrifice in relation to ourselves as believers in Romans 12 and Hebrews 13. In Romans 12 the apostle beseeches “by the compassions of God” that those to whom he was writing should present their bodies a living sacrifice. Every one of us has a body and we are responsible for the deeds we do in the body, but it is to be yielded to the will of God, and we find blessing in doing that. We come to it that it is “the good and acceptable and perfect will of God”. The essence of sacrifice is that the will of God prevails, and that will is found to be acceptable by us. We would readily agree that it is good and perfect, but we are to accept God’s will ourselves. That is the believer’s offering now, our sacrifice of ourselves willingly and joyfully subject to the will of God.
In Hebrews 13 the writer speaks of praise to God as a sacrifice: “By him therefore” - that is by the Lord Jesus, the One who has “suffered without the gate” - “let us offer the sacrifice of praise continually to God”. I think it shows the breadth of the thought of sacrifice, and God is pleased with and accepts what is offered willingly to Him, in the power of Christ, by His own. It further elevates the thought of sacrifice. The writer uses the same word to describe helping one another: “But of doing good and communicating of your substance be not forgetful”. It is a very practical matter as well.
TMI was wondering if the type in Genesis 22 would bring out that great thought of sacrifice, “Take now thy son, thine only son, whom thou lovest, Isaac”, v 2.
AMB What a test that was for Abraham, and he is the father of those who walk in the steps of faith, Rom 4: 12. It is remarkable how that test brought out Abraham’s faith. We learn from the New Testament that he believed “that God was able to raise him even from among the dead” (Heb 11: 19), and in his faith Abraham was prepared to subject himself entirely to God’s will, knowing that there would be blessing and life from it. What more would you say?
TM It says later in Genesis 22 that “they went both of them together”, v 6. I think it has been suggested it is just like John’s gospel, the Father and Son, the two going on together. It shows how the Father really appreciated the sacrifice of Christ. I suppose one of His titles, “the Lamb”, would bring out that thought of sacrifice.
AMB That is helpful. It would remind us of how pleasing to the Father that life of Christ here was, and remains. The Father delighted in it, and His voice bore witness to it, the voice out of heaven; yet it was that life, so precious to the Father and so precious to the Lord Jesus Himself, that was given up for us - in love for us and in subjection to the will of God. It is a wonderful matter!
AGM There are two elements to the sacrifice: there is the object, and then there is the cost. We see that with the Lord Jesus. The object was God: He offered Himself to God; but the cost was tremendous, and that is really the value of the sacrifice.
AMB “Christ loved us, and delivered himself up for us”. It is good to ponder the cost. It is a blessed matter for contemplation, is it not? The cost was great: the precious, holy, uniquely blessed life of the Lord Jesus was given up. It was of course taken again in a different condition, but that life here of such preciousness to the Father was laid down and His blood was shed. It should affect us.
AGM Does that really draw our attention to the fact that we are brought in as a result of that unique sacrifice? The Lord knew the will of God and He carried it out in perfection. But the will of God did not stop at Christ’s death. He has brought in a whole company for God’s pleasure.
AMB The motivation for it was love. These two verses are most affecting: “the Christ loved us, and delivered himself up for us”. We know that Christ loved His Father and loved His will, but Paul here in writing to the Ephesians says, He “loved us, and delivered himself up for us”. It is a very simple point to make, but it is profound, that this immense cost to the Lord, and also to the Father in delivering Him up, was because of divine love for us, to secure us for the divine pleasure.
JD Do you think then we can say that sacrifice is really the expression of love, and the giving of Christ is the supreme expression of love?
AMB Yes. Do you think it includes love expressed by Christ towards the Father, and love expressed towards His own; then there was the love of the Father for us expressed in it also? What a spectacle was seen by men, the humiliated and suffering Man, and the object of these taunts and sneering, but what was being expressed there was infinite love. It should call forth love from us, and does, do you think?
JD It is because sacrifice is the expression of love that enables us or allows us to become imitators of God.
AMB It is not a theological or philosophical imitation, is it? The starting point for formation after Christ and likeness to Him must be love. As the well-known scripture says, “We love because he has first loved us”, 1 John 4: 19. That refers to God’s love.
WMP Regarding the Hebrew bondman, we can only understand His love for the wife by first appreciating His love for the master, Exod 21: 1-6. That was the predominant thought, was it not? That would shed its own light on how much Christ loved the assembly, His wife.
AMB Very good. The context is that, if the master had given him a wife, then he could choose not to go free by saying, “I love my master, my wife, and my children”. These are precious thoughts. It is not explicit in that scripture, but we can think of the feelings of the master in hearing these words, “I love my master, my wife, and my children”; the commitment that was made to be his for ever. It would remind us freshly, do you think, of the eternal effect of Christ’s sacrifice?
RB Are we challenged therefore as to our knowledge of God in relation to any sacrifice? The Lord knew His God. There was a time in Israel when they were sacrificing lame animals, blind animals, Mal 1: 8.
AMB Do you think we deepen in our knowledge of God by contemplating Christ’s sacrifice? It was wholly suitable to God. And it was essential that God should have this sacrifice so that He has an entirely righteous, eternal and unchallengeable basis to bless us and to have us without distance or fear of any kind in His presence. The sacrifice of Christ has removed all that stood against us, and has established us before God for ever. As we contemplate that, we learn a great deal about the love of God and about His righteousness. These are matters to ponder and to affect us.
JL What is the difference between an offering and a sacrifice? Both are mentioned here together.
AMB I would be glad of your thoughts; it is a question that came up in my mind. They speak of the same thing, but in the sacrifice what is emphasised is the cost to the One sacrificing, and in the offering it is the intrinsic value of what is sacrificed. I would be glad of your thought.
JL That is much the same as was in my own mind. Some of the offerings in Scripture were presented by the priest, and someone else bore the cost of the sacrifice to bring it, but I thought when both are put together here, it emphasises the outstanding love of the Lord who bore the cost and yielded Himself up as an acceptable offering to God.
AMB That is very helpful. There is the object of the sacrifice and also the cost; and underlying it is the motivation which, as has been brought out, is love.
JL And we have the added thought here of the perfect acceptability of it. It is good to go back to the first example we have in scripture of an acceptable sacrifice, which was Abel’s, was it not? It speaks of “the firstlings of his flock” (Gen 4: 4); it was totally acceptable to God.
AMB It is described in Hebrews as “a more excellent sacrifice” (Heb 11: 4); it involved the shedding of blood, and that was acceptable to God. But “upon Cain, and on his offering, he did not look”, Gen 4: 5. That was the fruit of the cursed ground, but Abel appreciated that blood-shedding was essential if the sacrifice was to be acceptable before God. The “sweet-smelling savour” is a description that is used often in Leviticus as to the offerings, the burnt-offering in particular, and Leviticus also tells us that the Israelite was accepted on the basis of his burnt-offering, chap 1: 3. Now, that is Christ’s offering. There is nothing that we offer that makes us acceptable. It is Christ’s unique, blessed offering of Himself that secures our acceptance. His offering, being so absolutely acceptable and delightful to God, secures our acceptance before Him.
JD What has been said about the offering and sacrifice is helpful because it brings before us that there was never any question about the acceptability of this offering.
AMB He was “given up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God” (Acts 2: 23). Christ came into manhood and took up a body in order that He might lay it down in death and that His precious blood might be shed. That was all in the counsels of God in order that His purposes should be achieved.
TM What the Lord says in John 15 brings out these scriptures that you have read. He says, “No one has greater love than this, that one should lay down his life for his friends”, John 15: 13. That is His supreme sacrifice. He goes on to say, “Ye are my friends if ye practice whatever I command you”, v 14. That would involve our sacrifice.
AMB Yes. God is looking for an answer to the great expenditure involved in Christ giving Himself, and in the Father delivering Him up: “He who, yea, has not spared his own Son, but delivered him up for us all”, Rom 8: 32. That is to have power over our affections, leading to commitment so that we become willing offerers. When we think of Christ’s sacrifice and ours, we have in our minds that His was unique and beyond compare and eternal; our sacrifices are not like that, but the spirit of sacrifice is something that we take on ourselves, having Christ as our great model. You mentioned that in prayer this morning: the believer is to be formed after Christ. We use that expression, and it is a right one, and God looks for it, and then there are the practical consequences of being formed after Christ.
In Psalm 50, we have “those that have made a covenant with me”, with God, “by sacrifice!”. The context must be adversity, a prophetic allusion to what will happen in the great tribulation, and then the Lord’s appearing to deliver His own people. In adversity these godly ones, these pious Israelites, are prepared to sacrifice. Well, we can apply that to ourselves. What would you say?
TM What you say is helpful. It is only as we appreciate the Lord’s sacrifice that we will be able to sacrifice maybe a little ourselves. We must appreciate His sacrifice and what it involved, the suffering.
AMB You make a very important point there. Love underlay the Lord’s sacrifice, His and the Father’s affections entering into that matter. The children of Israel fell away from the inward meaning of sacrifice. Reference was made to them sacrificing the lame, for example. What God looks for is the sacrifice of “the afflicted and contrite in spirit”, Isa 66: 2. The scripture says: “But to this man will I look: to the afflicted and contrite in spirit, and who trembleth at my word”. There is another reference, quoted in Hebrews: “Sacrifices and offerings and burnt-offerings and sacrifices for sin thou willedst not, neither tookest pleasure in”, Heb 10: 8. That is a quotation from Psalm 40, which clearly speaks prophetically of the Lord Himself. In verse 8 it says, “To do thy good pleasure, my God, is my delight, and thy law is within my heart”. These were the Lord’s feelings. He gave His best; He gave His all; it was not a matter of fulfilling what was outward but answering to God’s desire to have perfect inward formation in One who was entirely according to Himself. Would you go with that?
WMP Following on from what you have said, is making a covenant by sacrifice commitment? Is that what it means, a commitment to God and to the Lord and to divine things? Is that what is required on our part?
AMB Yes, that is helpful. The psalmist does not speak about the covenant that God had made with the people, although it would underlie this. But what He takes account of is a covenant that His people will make with Him “by sacrifice”. It will be fulfilled by godly Israelites laying down their lives in the tribulation, perhaps preaching the everlasting glad tidings and being martyred for it in that time yet to come, but soon coming. Now, at the moment we are not required to accept martyrdom. We never forget that believers in the past have given up their lives and, indeed, still do so in some parts of the world. But the principle of it is that God takes account of the spirit of sacrifice in believers, and that must be an inward commitment to Him, to His will, and, as the brethren have helpfully been saying, in affection, not in servitude. It is willing offering, willing sacrifice, and that applies to us. I feel the challenge of it as seeking to speak about it, and the soberness of it.
BWL Are these persons that have been affected by God’s sovereignty, “out of Zion”? I was wondering about Ephesians 1. God’s purpose is set out there. Redemption was necessary because of what we were, and we are very thankful for that: we needed it. The purposes of God and what we were in His thoughts have to affect us too.
AMB Yes. The unfolding of God’s thoughts will certainly affect the Israelites, the faithful remnant. They will see the prophetic scriptures in the Old Testament being fulfilled, and will understand that they relate to God’s original promises for them, but for us it is His purpose. The greatness of the blessings that Christ’s sacrifice has brought us into should so affect our hearts that we become imitators of Him and imitators of God. The appreciation by the Holy Spirit of the greatness of what God has in His heart for us would lead to these features that we are speaking about being demonstrated in us. It is what is inward being expressed outwardly.
JL At one time the Lord’s supper was celebrated at the end of the meeting. That was changed because brethren came to it that we must begin by contemplating the supreme sacrifice of the Lord Jesus. That is what promotes and prompts responsive praise and what we have been speaking about here, the covenant made by sacrifice. Yielding our heavenly response flows out from that.
AMB His sacrifice is first in every respect. It must underlie everything that truly answers to God.
JD David really knew this covenant in Psalm 51: “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise”, v 17. The covenant we make with God from our side must involve what is moral.
AMB I am glad you draw attention to that verse. What is moral must indeed underlie what we are speaking about. Verse 17 is really a description of repentance towards God, and it is vital to know what that is. Repentance is not once and for all - although in one sense it is - but there is joy in heaven over “repenting” sinners, Luke 15: 7. It is to be characteristic, and faith in Christ is really inseparable from repentance.
JD It is “the goodness of God” that leads us to repentance, Rom 2: 4; so we must have faith in God that that should happen.
AMB In order to appreciate His goodness? That is a helpful scripture to bring in. The “broken and … contrite heart” is inward as having to do with the Lord Jesus as the One who sacrificed Himself for us; and we have to do with God as the One who “delivered him up for us all”, Rom 8: 32.
AGM It is an interesting expression, “my godly ones”. You get the impression that God is so delighted in having these ones. “Godly ones” would involve persons that have such an appreciation of Christ. I was thinking of the previous scripture, the “sweet-smelling savour”. The fat in the offerings speaks of the excellence of Christ and that was so pleasing to God. It was for God alone. We must have an appreciation of what Christ meant to God. There is a hymn we sing:
And to know the blessed secret
Of His preciousness to Thee.
(Hymn 277)
That really underlies the godly ones.
AMB The same word is translated ‘godliness’ and ‘piety’, is it not? It is a very practical matter, involving the expression of inward appreciation of what Christ has done. It requires repentance on our part, faith and repentance, with Christ as the Object, the Model. Having Him as our Model would bring about inward formation after Him and conformity to Him. It is not outward, but there is what is then expressed as a result of what is inward.
AGM I think that is right. Nothing of the first order is acceptable to God. It has all been removed in the death of Christ. We are to think of ourselves as what we are as in Christ. It is a test for me as to what is the result in my heart. It is not knowledge; it is the affections.
AMB Yes. As soon as we believe, as far as God is concerned we are in Christ, and He sees us in that way. Now, it may take us a lifetime to come to that, to work out that matter into result; but God regards us as in Christ. And if He does, so can you and I. That is something to come to, and in a sense we need to keep coming to it because we are to be maintained in it .
RB When we come to the Supper, the sacrifice the Lord Jesus made is before us in the emblems, is it not? And then there is to be the answer in ourselves: “none shall appear in my presence empty”, Exod 23: 15.
AMB Before we come to the meeting to remember the Lord together, we are to think deeply about Him and what He has done for us. I am sure that all enters into “let a man prove himself”, 1 Cor 11: 28. We think about that scripture as making sure that we have put things right, perhaps with our brother if need be. But it is very important to spend time before we go out to the Lord’s supper occupying our hearts and minds with the Lord Jesus, and His perfection and acceptability to God. I am not the object of that occupation; Christ is my object.
RB We are oftentimes reminded that the sin-offering lieth at the door, Gen 4: 7, note. It is all cleared at the door. “Gather unto me my godly ones”.
AMB Do you think the point is that, when we go to remember the Lord, everything is in order? We do not put things in order when we are there; that is not the place. It is to be done beforehand so that the Holy Spirit then has liberty to occupy us with Christ and make us sensitive to His presence and to His leading us.
JD We have been taught the passover precedes the Supper; that would be the sacrifice before the offerings.
AMB Very good, that is we are consciously in the good of the blood having been shed, do you think? Everything is set right morally. That is helpful.
CAMcK There was a time when Samuel had to say to Saul,
Behold, obedience is better than sacrifice,
Attention than the fat of rams,
Is that because these moral features were not operating in him?
AMB Saul went ahead of what Samuel had told him to do and offered the sacrifices before Samuel came. He seemed to think that what he had done was right, but he was being disobedient. He was occupied with himself, and the fact that he had a place as the one who was setting these sacrifices on, but Samuel the prophet had God’s mind and he brings to bear what is moral. He really exposed Saul’s state, and that was serious. We are in a time of grace for which we are very thankful, but we are never to be careless about matters, are we?
CAMcK Certainly not, but I was thinking too how attractive these features are, “obedience” and “attention” are seen supremely in Christ, but in us attention would be contemplating Him, and obedience would relate to what He has asked, to remember Him.
AMB Thank you for that. It is very important not to be taken up with our own matters, but to be taken up with the One who is obedient, and to be attentive to Him.
DGC We are speaking about the matter of self-examination: we do not examine ourselves to the standard of ourselves. We must examine ourselves in the light of Christ. That then brings something into the soul. I am thinking in terms of the Supper so that, as you examine yourself and you consider the beauty of Christ, you then come with something and then we find at the Supper “of that which is from thy hand have we given thee”, 1 Chron 29: 14. It is of that character and standard and quality.
AMB It is very helpful to bring that in. We examine ourselves, “But let a man prove himself, and thus eat of the bread, and drink of the cup”. It is with a view to my enjoying the Supper, and more than that, that God has an unhindered response from my heart. The standard is Christ, as you say. Occupation with Christ is always positive; He delivers me from myself. The Holy Spirit loves to occupy us with Him. What an occupation Christ is!
AGM This is to become characteristic with us, “my godly ones”. Characteristically they would have God in mind. Their whole life would be governed by what is pleasing to God. It is a test for us in a mixed condition, but we cannot be one thing during the week and another thing on Lord’s day. That is a big test.
AMB Yes; we are to be governed by God’s will, and God’s will is that Christ should be honoured and glorified here in those that love Him, and that features of Him should be seen in the saints. God delights in Christ being continued here in the saints: it is a searching matter even to say it, but we ought not to draw back from saying what is right because we do not always feel equal to it. The standard is Christ, and the Spirit helps us to be like Him. We need, as brethren have been saying, to understand the thought of the covenant, which is commitment. Commitment is to Christ, and the Spirit will help me inwardly in that.
AGM I noticed a remark of Mr A J Gardiner that even in the giving of thanks for your food, there is a side that you are subject to the will of God, and the Father loves to hear the name of the Lord Jesus. Some may not use that title, but it is so precious to heaven. It is really keeping us in accord with the mind of heaven as to Christ.
AMB Yes, and we are reminded by what you say how important it is to be inwardly consistent with what we express outwardly. If I give thanks for my food, as we do, is my heart really in that? It is a simple thing, but that is part of piety.
AGM It could be a matter of form, a sacrament or something like that, but I think the more we dwell on the greatness of Christ and what He is to God, the more we will be able truly to use that title, the Lord Jesus. It is the assembly title. It is very easy to drift into a form. I think the Spirit would help to maintain us in this living character.
AMB Yes. It is always good to mean what we say. I am not for a moment suggesting anybody would not, but it is good to have our hearts and minds engaged in this simple giving of thanks. I wonder too if that might relate to believers having moral power with God, conscious of being accepted in Christ. The spirit of sacrifice is acknowledged in what is spoken of here: “those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice!”. God honours what He sees in those who have sacrificed.
MB It would be our desire that in any sacrifice on our part, God has the glory. I was thinking about what has been said: it is deeply individual. Tomorrow morning, we will give expression to very fine things, but if we simply copy what others say, there is nothing in that for God, is there? What we say must come from our hearts. If we are going on with a form of things, we are giving ourselves the glory, but God cannot have the glory if we have it.
AMB God is to be glorified by believers who are like Christ, and who come out in that way. Everything that the Lord did was for the glory of His Father.
MB The Lord in walking here made nothing of Himself in order that the Father might be glorified in everything.
AMB He said that the works He did were the works of His Father, so the glory was for the Father. That was the Lord’s object in His life here, the blessing of men too, but His great objective was and is that the Father should be glorified.
MB So in relation to the Lord’s walk, we can have a very wide thought as to what constitutes sacrifice, can we not? Every step of His way was a sacrifice: it was all offered up for the Father.
AMB And He delighted to do that. It was not that He wished to do something else: He delighted to do what the Father wanted.
MB The matter of motivation comes into that, does it not? It says of the woman who cast in the two mites that it was “out of her need”, Luke 21: 4. There were those that cast in “out of their abundance”, and I have always wondered if the Lord is suggesting that these were merely going through the motions: they were doing it to be seen of others. That woman “out of her need has cast in all the living which she had”.
AMB The Lord knew her heart, just as He knew the hearts of those that cast in from their wealth. The Lord will credit you or any one of us with everything that He can. If there is a stirring of our hearts towards Him and we are prompted to say or do something that is honouring to Him, He loves that.
JTW One of old said, “but as for me and my house, we will serve Jehovah”, Josh 24: 15. Does that fit in with this covenant that comes in here?
AMB Joshua not only committed himself to God, but his household also. Here we are speaking about “godly ones”, pious people, and it is a great thing to have pious households. That would be normal, would it not? I think the Lord greatly appreciates pious households. When young people set up their houses - and we are very thankful when that happens, how vital marriage in the Lord is - what is in view is a household for the Lord, in which the head of the house would say, “but as for me and my house, we will serve Jehovah”. Serving would involve sacrifice. The Lord loves that, to see houses held for Him.
BWL These would be good, practical features in a locality. It would be the element of moral power, leadership in a right sense.
AMB That is good. Do you think moral power must start with our relations with God Himself, but then it would come into expression through what we are in our localities?
BWL The local brethren would give us an opportunity to be on this line of sacrifice.
AMB Yes. How much the scriptures say about that. The apostle John says, “we ought for the brethren to lay down our lives”, 1 John 3: 16. Very largely that would be those that are near to us, though not exclusively.
RJC I was thinking of Aquila and Priscilla. They were taken account of in the epistle to the Romans. It says of them in chapter 16, “who for my life staked their own neck”, v 4.
AMB That was a household that had made a covenant with God by sacrifice, do you think? I am glad you refer to it. There was only one neck: Aquila and Priscilla were at one, and how useful they were. They had probably suffered a great deal - they had had to leave Rome because of persecutions, but they made themselves available for the support of the testimony wherever they were and, in particular, to support Paul’s ministry. What an accolade that was!
ADM Would the “sweet-smelling savour” mentioned in Ephesians as to the Lord’s sacrifice be reflected in Paul when he speaks of his ministry? He says, “I am already being poured out” (2 Tim 4: 6) and in Philippians 2: 17 he says, “I am poured out as a libation on the sacrifice and ministration of your faith”. Is that really the same spirit that was seen in the Lord’s service, providing “a sweet-smelling savour”? Paul was reflecting that in his service too.
AMB Paul was par excellence the imitator of Christ, was he not? He could say, “Be my imitators, even as I also am of Christ”, 1 Cor 11: 1. He poured himself out. He said he would “most gladly spend and be utterly spent” (2 Cor 12: 15) for the blessing of the saints. Few of us could speak about that at all, but that was the extent of Paul’s sacrifice, and then literally he laid down his life for his Lord, we would understand.
JW Asaph, the writer of Psalm 50, says elsewhere that “my feet were almost gone” (Psalm 73: 2), but finally came to it that understanding was in the sanctuaries of God, v 17. I was just thinking in the psalm here; there is what we might be able to say about God in a general sense, and that is good. We think of God and who He is, in one sense beyond us, but then Asaph comes to this point when he says, “Our God will come”. The Lord Jesus says, “my Father and your Father … my God and your God”, John 20: 17. This God is our God.
AMB He has made Himself known in the most wonderful way, in Christ, and He has given us the most wonderful gifts too. He has given us Christ; He has given us the Holy Spirit; He has given us one another; He has given us everything. Our God is the Giver. That is a fine matter to have before our hearts.
JW We are to come to certain conclusions in our own hearts that nobody can shake us from. At the end of Psalm 73 Asaph says, “But as for me, it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord Jehovah, that I may declare all thy works”, v 28. We come to certain conclusions in ourselves when we are going through things morally.
AMB They cannot be shaken, as you say. Do you think Asaph going into the sanctuary in verse 17 in the psalm that you quote was a great help to him?
JW I need to go in there as often as I can.
AMB It is not possible to go in too often. We can always go in more. “Until I went into the sanctuaries of God; then understood I their end”.
JL We delight to draw near, but God delights to gather. That is the expression: He is gathering the saints in verse 5.
AMB That verse expresses God’s heart: “Gather unto me my godly ones”. The Lord will do that literally. He will act to gather His people, His earthly people.
JL The people of God will be gathered into one, John 11: 52. They are very scattered at the moment; that will not remain so.
AMB What a gathering it will be when the assembling shout is heard.
JL An outstanding gathering!
AMB Yes, and then there will be those that are gathered out of the tribulation to form the earthly families, which will be a remarkable matter. God is a giver and He is a gatherer.
As to Romans 12, we have already spoken about much of what this scripture brings before us. It is an individual matter, “to present your bodies a living sacrifice”. It means we are to be governed by the will of God rather than our own will. As has often been said, there is only room for one will in the kingdom; that is the will of God; and we see it all expressed wonderfully in Christ. It is open to all of us to display a sacrificial spirit because each of us has a body, and the question is how we use that. It involves not being “conformed to this world” but being “transformed” to be like Christ. And then, to “prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God”. Is that will acceptable to me? It is to be, and I think a meeting like this helps us in that; and inwardly, we appeal to the Holy Spirit to help us.
TM Is this the answer to the Lord’s suffering, “This is my body which is given for you”, Luke 22: 19. The responsibility and the onus is on us to “present” our “bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God”.
AMB It is a remarkable expression. We have spoken about the matter of acceptability: such a sacrifice is acceptable. What more would you say about it?
TM Do you think we appreciate what the Lord has done in giving His all, coming in with a body?
Behold, I come, in the volume of the book
it is written of me –
To do thy good pleasure, Ps 40: 7, 8.
Would that help us to set aside our own wills and to be “holy, acceptable to God”?
AMB There is something infinitely greater than what I want or I think. I am to find my object in Christ, and He is to become so attractive, and He does, that my will is set aside.
RB Does this section produce moral courage? You have been speaking about moral power, but does this produce moral courage?
AMB Are you thinking about not being “conformed to this world” but instead being “renewed” in our spirits and in our minds?
RB One of things that is said at the beginning of Acts is, “God must be obeyed rather than men”, chap 5: 29. We are living in a very difficult society at the moment where God’s word is being disobeyed and forced aside. Have we the moral courage to obey God?
AMB We should have, as believers in Christ. It must be His will and God’s will that prevails, and we have to experience that personally. We are not doing this in our own strength: we call on the Lord as our Head. It is also good to draw on the Holy Spirit; as Peter says, “If ye are reproached in the name of Christ, blessed are ye; for the Spirit of glory and the Spirit of God rests upon you”, 1 Pet 4: 14. It is a very fine thing to prove that. I cannot say much about it, but bringing the Lord’s name in brings power. God can use that as a testimony. What more did you have in mind?
RB I was thinking of Deborah. She says,
… that I Deborah arose,
That I arose a mother in Israel,
She did not rise up as a personality; she rose up as one who had influence and others took character from her.
AMB Yes, she was used to support the masculine side: Barak needed Deborah’s support to do what he needed to do. These are things to be proved, are they not?
RJG A sacrifice cannot be recalled, can it? It is permanent. Is that part of the importance of “the renewing of your mind”? What we do in the sacrifice of giving our bodies is for God and cannot be recalled.
AMB The Lord’s sacrifice was absolutely beyond recall; our sacrifices must be too. The word ‘commitment’ was used earlier, and that is what is spoken of here. When the apostle speaks about our bodies, what he had in mind would include the thought that the human body expresses the inward motivations of the heart and the mind. The mind is to be renewed. Our bodies should express what God’s will is, not ours.
JD The last scripture we read speaks about what is “continually to God”.
AMB We are to develop and grow in our sacrifice. Hebrews 13 elevates the thought of sacrifice, our sacrifice, extending it to “the sacrifice of praise … the fruit of the lips confessing his name”. I think that includes, but must be more than, confessing in testimony. The service of God is in mind here, and God regards that as a sacrifice. It is acceptable to Him, precious and valuable: He sees Christ in it. We are to be exercised about the matter: responsibility is involved. We are not to put our hands to the plough and draw back in these things; we are to be committed, as we have been saying. It would also include what is testimonial - how God rejoices in that, but how He must rejoice when hearts that belong to Christ are united in affectionate and intelligent response to Him. It is our “intelligent service”, Rom 12: 1. That is not human intelligence; it is intelligence formed in affection in the soul in response to the revelation of God, God’s thoughts presented to us in infinite grace and attractiveness in Christ.
JD 1 Corinthians 10 speaks as to “intelligent persons” (v 15), and has in mind the Lord’s supper. It really has in mind what is offered up in the way of praise through the assembly, do you think?
AMB That is helpful. The children of Israel were to serve God. To what extent they did serve Him, you wonder. We are not really told, but God’s mind was that there should be continual sacrifice, and His provision was such that that could be maintained. I suggest the same applies to the saints of the assembly.
AGM Could you say more as to that, “offer the sacrifice of praise continually to God”? We can understand it in the old economy where they kept the fire burning all night, but how does that really apply to ourselves? Is it more than just in the service of God? Is it something that continues through the week? It is almost like an attitude of mind.
AMB We spoke earlier about what was characteristic. Responding to and praising God should be characteristic. God should never be out of our minds. We are walking under His eye all the time so He sees everything that we say, think, and do; and my life should reflect that.
AGM As we are reading the Scriptures or ministry, a certain feature of Christ comes before us. Our hearts should go out to God regarding that. Is that what is involved in it?
AMB That is very good. Response to God is to colour the life of the believer.
BWL At the golden altar the incense was continual, was it not? There were the offerings that did not involve death, but when we come to the golden altar there is that which is really the fragrance of Christ continually before God.
AMB That is the believer’s appreciation of Christ before God. We should never drop from that level. We have responsibilities that occupy us in different ways, but whatever we say or do should be consistent with our appreciation of what Christ is for God. We need to be careful that we do not say things that are unreal, but what you are bringing forward is not unreal. It is to mark us: we should be people who are characteristically affected by appreciating what Christ is for God.
JL In so far as it is referred to as fruit, is it the product of the Spirit’s work within us, bringing out this answer in the service, an answering response in the affections of the saints towards God through Christ?
AMB One thing about fruit in natural things is it reflects the health of the tree. It is the manifestation of what is within and what is for God within the believer is the result, as you are saying, of the work of the Spirit. We often say, but it is well worth repeating, that the Spirit always occupies us with Christ.
Cullen
11th October 2025
List of initials:-
R Bain, Fraserburgh; A M Brown, Linlithgow; M Buchan, Peterhead; D G Coull, Aberdeen; R J Cumming, Aberdeen; J Drummond, Aberdeen; R J Gardiner, Aberdeen; B W Lovie, Aberdeen; J Laurie, Brechin; A G Mair, Cullen; T Mair, Cullen; C A McKay, Brechin; A D Melville, Grangemouth; W M Patterson, Glasgow; J Webster, Fraserburgh; J T Webster, Fraserburgh