THE SERVICE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

Hebrews 9:14; Genesis 24:2-4; Esther 2:15-18;

Romans 8:15; Revelation 22:17 (to ‘Come’)

P.A.G.      One of the hymns that we sang this morning, hymn 121, begins:

‘Blessēd Spirit of the Father,

What a work has now been done’.

We might enquire into the Spirit’s work, recognising that while we might appreciate the work of the Spirit as it relates to us, the Spirit is serving the Father and the Son in what He does. The Spirit’s work can be traced from the very first page of Scripture; “the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters” (Gen.1:2), even then seeking a response. It is clear that at the time of Noah, the Spirit had been striving with men, and we know that the Spirit of Christ worked in persons. The New Testament refers to “what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ which was in them …”, 1 Pet.1:11. So that the Spirit has been working in many ways which have been unseen, but nevertheless He is a divine Person who is active. We have referred already this weekend to the word in Job, “By his Spirit the heavens are adorned”, Job 25:13. The Spirit has been working in a variety of ways in service.

We might take up first this great service in which He participated. It is worth noting that the Trinity was involved in the sacrifice of Christ, “who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God”; what a service that was. Then in Genesis 24, the Spirit is seen in the type of the servant serving the father in relation to a bride for his son, Isaac. And then the scripture in Esther has already been referred to this morning, where we see Hegai as a type of the Spirit serving in order that the heart of the king might be satisfied, speaking typically of Christ’s satisfaction in the assembly. We might get some impression of the completeness of the Spirit’s service. Esther required nothing but what Hegai brought her; she was not looking elsewhere for adornment or for what might please the heart of the king. The Lord says of the Holy Spirit, that “he shall guide you into all the truth”, John 16:13. We do not need anything other than the Spirit to guide us into all the truth. And having served the Father in relation to the selection of a bride and her adornment, He serves the Father too that He might have a response from sons. Then “the Spirit and the bride say, Come”; we might think of that as a service to us, but it is really a service to Christ.

R.W.McC. Some of the service of the Spirit would be beyond us to contemplate or to know about. Does the Spirit of God hovering over the face of the deep show that one of the features of the Spirit would be His feelings?

P.A.G.      Yes, we sang about that too:

‘Thou dost know the Father’s feelings

Of affection for His Son’.

Why would the Spirit wish to know these things? Because His affections are bound up with the affections of the Father and the Son. He would give priority to what would satisfy them. It is a humble and gracious service.

R.D.P.      In Luke 14, it is what is for the heart of God that is in mind. The master of the house sets on the great supper, and there is a conversation with his bondman, typical of the Spirit, who goes out. The bondman is still out; is it a similar thought, the gospel in relation to what is for God’s heart?

P.A.G.      Yes, so that do you think that the Spirit is giving character to the house of God? In chapter 14, as you say, the bondman goes out, and then in chapter 15 the woman is typical of the Spirit. The woman is seen there, it says “sweep the house and seek carefully” (v.8); she is seen in the house and she is sweeping carefully. The house of God is a place where people can be brought to, but then when they are there, the Spirit would be careful about those that are there. He is giving character to the whole system of things that God has established.

H.T.F.      How great a work! I was thinking that it is only Christ who could accomplish the work that He came to do, and it is only the Spirit of God who is great enough to do the work that falls to Him to do, and no one else. It is right to think of it as the same character, at the same level? Divine Persons work together.

P.A.G.      I think it is important to see it at that level because this is a divine Person that we are speaking of, and His Person is carefully protected. In John’s gospel, you get the thought of the Spirit being sent of the Father, and sent of the Son, but then you also get the Lord’s word, “when he is come” (John 16: 13); the Spirit moves in His own right. Divine Persons have a right to move and the Spirit has that right. Although He has taken a place of service, His glory is no less, and His power is no less; it is divine glory and divine power.

P.M.      Jesus says in that section, “who goes forth from with the Father” (John 15:26), not that He will go forth. Is it the character of His operations?

P.A.G.      I believe that. The expression used is perhaps not one that we would generally use, to say that someone “goes forth from with”, but I think it is important to recognise that He goes freighted with all that the Father’s presence would involve, although as to Person and as to place He is with Him. He is co-equal in deity; He brings the atmosphere of the Father’s presence into what He does.

P.M.      Yes, and it is maintained livingly, because He never ceases to be in the Father’s presence.

P.A.G.      Although the Spirit is here, and we have been taught that the fulness of the Spirit is in the assembly, yet He is a divine Person and He is not limited to that. He still has His true heavenly place.

D.J.R.      Is that what is involved in the scripture which you read? It says, “by the eternal Spirit”. He was fully identified with the Lord as having come here, and in the action of offering Himself spotless to God.

P.A.G.      It is the character of His Person. Divine Persons are eternal. God is eternal. The Lord took up the place and title of Son in incarnation and ever remains so, but as to His Person He is eternal. The Spirit is eternal. I think this protects His deity; He is not here merely in an influential way, but He is here as God. It is something to contemplate that Christ and the eternal Spirit and God in the person of the Father were involved in this unparalleled sacrifice.

R.D.P.      Does it bring out the immensity of the sacrifice that such a term is used, “the eternal Spirit”? It is unique.

P.A.G.      I feel that. It is a touch given here that we would not otherwise have had. This is not said in the gospel records. I suppose the writer to the Hebrews would attach great importance to the glory of the person of the Spirit being brought livingly before these Hebrew saints. But it also adds lustre to the transaction that took place. It would involve the fact that Christ remained in His true place as Man. Even the very offering itself was by the Spirit.

R.D.P.      You referred to the Spirit of God hovering over the face of the waters. There was nothing there, but the Spirit of God was there, and there is the suggestion in that scripture that He was looking. Then you get this reference to the eternal Spirit – a very profound statement.

P.A.G.      He was looking because something had come in to disrupt God’s creation, but in this place where we are now reading, God had an answer to everything. In the beginning in Genesis, there was no answer; the Spirit hovered and yet there was no response. But here there was an answer to all that God’s heart was set on, in a Man who offered Himself “spotless to God”.

P.M.      Mr Darby uses the expression that ‘the cross stands alone in the history of eternity’¹. Would that have a link with this title of the Spirit here?

P.A.G.      Yes; you would be thinking of the scripture that says, “from eternity to eternity thou art God”, Ps.90:2. The Spirit is God from eternity to eternity, but here He comes to act, to work in time, in order that everything that was in the divine heart might be fulfilled. I feel the importance of understanding how essential the service of the Holy Spirit is to the working out of the purpose of God.

J.S.      Would you say that He had His part in the eternal counsel?

P.A.G.      I would certainly say that. “Let us make man in our image” (Gen.1:26); at that point, the Trinity of course was not revealed, but nevertheless we have been taught in ministry that you could not exclude from that the thought of a divine conversation. “Let us make man in our image” particularly emphasises power. The purpose of God is not merely abstract, and the counsels of God are not merely abstract. We cannot go beyond what the scripture tells us, but we know that divine Persons were there. We cannot say much, but I believe it would be right to think that They were engaged in this matter of purpose. The hymn speaks about the Father and the Son being ‘One in thought, in plan and purpose’ (Hymn 117), but the Spirit is co-equal in deity.

P.M.      In the first verse of Scripture, “In the beginning God”, Mr Darby’s footnote shows that it is a plural expression. Does that bear on it?

P.A.G.      It does. We tread carefully on this holy ground, but I do have this sense that we should keep in our minds the equality of the Spirit in deity. Having taken His place relative to the Father and to the Son in time, nevertheless He remains and ever will be co-equal in deity, and therefore I think it would be right to suggest that He would be equally involved in the purpose of God, and then in these matters you have drawn attention to in Genesis.

H.T.F.      Say something as to the reference to “spotless”. We would hardly think it was necessary but was it intrinsically true? Christ was not made that, He was that.

P.A.G.      The previous verse speaks about how the “blood of goats and bulls, and a heifer’s ashes sprinkling the defiled, sanctifies for the purity of the flesh”; that would be referring particularly to the red heifer and the water of purification in Numbers 19. In that sense purification was available, but as to Christ no purification was needed, so the writer says, “how much rather”. Man needed purification; Christ needed none. Thus not only could the Spirit identify Himself fully with Christ at the waters of baptism – it says that the “Holy Spirit descended in a bodily form as a dove upon him” (Luke 3:22); He could identify Himself entirely with that perfect Man because there was nothing to repel – but the Spirit could also identify Himself with Jesus as going forward to death, for He was spotless.

R.D.P.      We normally think of the blood being for God, but here it is “the blood of the Christ” and then “purify your conscience”. It is the blood purifying your conscience. Normally you think of the blood being principally for God.

P.A.G.      It is available to us, but it is so that God might be approached. We see in chapter 10 that what it principally affects is our affections. It speaks of us “having a great priest over the house of God, let us approach with a true heart, in full assurance of faith, sprinkled as to our hearts from a wicked conscience …”, Heb.10:21-23. In that sense, our affections are liberated as a result of the effect in our consciences of the blood of Christ and we are “washed as to our body with pure water”; that is to say that we are set free in our associations. All of this flows from Christ, but what it has in mind is that we enter into the holy of holies. Now that is still for God.

R.D.P.      The blood was not only on the mercy-seat but was before the mercy-seat as well. That would bear on the approach.

P.A.G.      Yes, “let us approach”; we have to be in liberty to do so.

A.M.      I was wondering if there was a type that illustrated this in the red heifer. The water would apply to us, to the one who had become defiled, but this verse in Hebrews 9 seems to be a more elevated line. Is there a type of this, or is this something that was held in mystery until it actually took place?

P.A.G.      I cannot say that I see a complete type. I think that the writer here is showing that in fact the type is superseded. The type of the red heifer goes so far, but this supersedes it, because now instead of man having to be purified to be in the sight of God, there is a Man who is pure and capable of being in the sight of God, do you think?

A.M.      Yes, I do, and that is the general trend in Hebrews; it is a contrast rather than comparison.

P.A.G.      In Numbers 19 that we have been speaking of, the red heifer is brought in, but then in Numbers 20 there is the murmuring and Miriam dies. I think that is the separation between the line of things that had to be purified, and then you get the incoming of the Spirit. The Spirit in the type of the springing well in Numbers 21 does not come in until after Miriam dies because that whole line of things had to be finished with, the line in that sense which needed to be purified. But in this reference in Hebrews, the Spirit is in liberty, the Spirit is free. You might say that at this momentous occasion, He came in not after the death of Christ, but before it, because He could identify Himself with all that Christ is, perfect in the sight of God.

G.J.R.      How far back would you take this “offered himself”? Clearly it is Gethsemane and what followed, but would you go back to the mount of transfiguration?

P.A.G.      Subject to adjustment, I would go back to “coming into the world He says … Lo, I come (in the roll of the book it is written of me) to do, O God, thy will”, Heb.10:5-7. Jesus offered Himself in that sense in becoming Man. There was the final offering at the cross, the spotless aspect of that, and He was proved to be spotless. It began with the “holy thing also which shall be born” (Luke 1:35), and then He was proved under testing to be spotless, manifestly seen to be so. The offering itself took place at the cross, but really His life was a sacrifice, would you say? He submitted Himself to the will of God at every point in His life.

G.J.R.      That deepens my appreciation of it, thank you.

H.T.F.      At the age of twelve, He said, “did ye not know that I ought to be occupied in my Father’s business?”, Luke 2:49.

P.A.G.      The fragrance of that has been gathered up by God. It is the hidden manna, but we may get to see some of that in eternity. The Lord says to one of the overcomers “to him will I give of the hidden manna”, Rev.2:17. We say, and rightly so, that this is the time of growth, but eternity is not going to be repetitive. It will be a time when we see things that we have not seen before; we will meet persons that we have never met before. Moses and Elias were on the mount with the Lord, and we will see them. When I was young, I thought that eternity was just one meeting after another. That is what you think when you are young, but it will be much better than that; we will see persons, we will hear their impressions. The hidden manna will be there.

P.M.      Does the hidden manna suggest something of the Father’s appreciation of the Son that as yet we have not known?

P.A.G.      That is what I think, and it bears on what John says right at the end of his gospel, “And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which if they were written one by one, I suppose that not even the world itself would contain the books written”, John 21:25. The Father will not have forgotten one of these things, and He will tell us about them.

A.M.      When an Israelite brought a sacrifice, he would offer it to the priest who would examine it to see if there was any blemish. But the Lord was under the eye of God; He offered Himself to God by the eternal Spirit.

P.A.G.      In that sense, the Spirit would confirm the spotlessness of the Offering. He would not have to examine it to see if it was so; this is an expression of perfect divine confidence.

A.M.      The examination would not be to see if there were blemishes; the examination would bring out the perfection of what was there.

P.A.G.      There was the point in relation to the burnt-offering where the legs and the inwards were washed in water. That is not clearing away defilement, but rather bringing out the perfection of what was there. It helps to make clear the detailed perfection of every movement of Christ and every feeling of Christ. The perfection in detail is brought out by the washing.

D.J.R.      Would it be right to say that He was actually the Priest at that point? I was thinking of the priest “according to the order of Melchisedec”, Heb.7:11.

P.A.G.      He abides for ever. The present character of priesthood is Aaronic, but the order of it is the order of Melchisedec; that goes right through. The need for intercession will end in eternity, but there will still be a mediatorial system. But I think that in this setting as presented in Hebrews, “who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God”, the Spirit assumes the priestly office and the Man bows in that sense to the priest. This is the perfect dignity of Christ as Man accepting the service of another divine Person in order that God might receive everything that was due to Him.

P.M.      Is that not very affecting, that in His Person He had the right to lay down His life, because of who He is, but when it comes to the offering of Himself to God, He does it by Another, by the eternal Spirit? Does that bring out the perfection of the Man?

P.A.G.      That is what I feel, that He submitted Himself to that condition of manhood, and He thus submitted Himself to all that it would involve, including the acceptance of the service of another divine Person. The Lord Jesus has in the economy taken a place relatively greater than that of the Spirit, yet as Man here He accepts His service. What absolute perfection in every movement. You might say that this is the detail of perfect refinement in manhood, that would bow to the arrangements that God had made even at this time of Christ’s greatest trial and suffering. He bowed to God’s arrangements. That among many other reasons is why the Father loves Him so much and wants Him to have a bride.

In Genesis, the servant accepts a command; “thou shalt go to my land and to my kindred, and take a wife for my son Isaac”. Abraham wants a suitable wife for his son Isaac, and what came to mind was the thought of the work. This was no straightforward matter. The servant had to travel a good distance and take provisions and he had to take things for this bride without knowing whether she would find him acceptable or not. But he proceeded because it was Abraham’s will that he should do so. We should really take this and Esther together because they do run together. What we get in type is both the satisfying of the Father and also the satisfying of the Son, the king in Esther being a type of Christ. The Spirit’s activities would coincide with both the desires of the Father and of the Son.

J.S.      Would it stimulate sensitivity with us in relation to the service of the Spirit?

P.A.G.      I think it should. Apart from anything else, He is constantly present, He is here. The Lord can move as He will and He does come in to His own, but the Spirit is constantly present. In these two sections read in Genesis and Esther, we might have some impression of the character of things that occupies Him. He is occupied with what the Father would desire for the Son and He is occupied with what Christ would desire.

P.M.      Would you distinguish between the bearing of “my land” and “my kindred”?

P.A.G.      There is an area of things in which God works but then there are people who are of the divine order with whom He works. He does not work with people in a vacuum, He works with people in that area. I think that is what the land would speak of. Paul tells the Ephesians that he “has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus”, Eph.2:6. There is an area, a sphere of things in which God is working. But then He desires to work with persons who are suitable. If you go to Colossians, you find that He has “made us fit for sharing the portion of the saints in light”, Col.1:12. And if you go to Romans, “be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind”, Rom.12:2. God has worked so that there might be a sphere where He can operate but also persons who are suitable to that sphere.

R.W.McC. Later in the chapter, Rebecca established her suitability separate from her kindred. Does that link with the thought?

P.A.G.      She showed that God had been morally justified in the choice that He had made. God has a sovereign and moral reason for all that He does. God has a right to do what He does, but He is always morally justified in what He does and how He does it. There is glory to God in how He moves and what He secures.

R.D.P.      Is the well of water linked with “my land”? We can understand “my kindred”, but in the land, there was a well of water where the women came out to draw. I was thinking that it was a suggestion of yet another service of the Spirit. He is operating in the land and this great service goes on. There is a lot made of the well of water; “outside the city by a well of water” (v.11). The servant says, “I stand here by the well of water” (v.13); that seems to be connected with the land.

P.A.G.      The land would be sustained and refreshed by this well. You had to go to it in order to get the advantage of it. In this country, water is piped to where it is needed, but in these days, you had to go to the well. I do ask myself whether I resort too readily to ministry, and not enough to the Spirit. In a sense, the ministry pipes the water, but we need to go to the well. Now, brethren will know that I strongly encourage us all to read worthwhile living ministry. I am not suggesting in any way that we should not do that, but we need to go to the well to get the living aspect of it.

R.D.P.      You have spoken of this great service of the Spirit to the Father and to the Son, but there are all these other services that are rendered too. You get the suggestion later of “the seven Spirits of God” (Rev.3:1), suggesting a complete array of the Spirit’s services. Moses sat by the well when he went out of Egypt. It is the suggestion of an area of things which is productive, potential, and fruitful.

P.A.G.      In relation to what has been drawn attention to, we should not overlook the words “my land” and “my kindred”. The question is, what would characterise something that the Father would refer to as “my land” and “my kindred”? What would be characteristic of them? One characteristic of the land would be that it would have a supply of water.

R.D.P.      Yes, we have spoken about that area of the truth, and then we can see that “my kindred” was a family. We can see it applying in our day to the family of God. It belongs to that, but then there is the land as well as the kindred; there is an environment in which the Spirit of God is operating.

P.A.G.      The thought would include a sphere in which these relationships can be enjoyed. Because our relationships are spiritual, they need to be enjoyed in the Spirit.

R.W.McC. It speaks of the land as a land that drinks the rain of heaven (Deut.11:11). That would be an area where it is absorbed and then comes the well of joy that we spoke about yesterday, the joy we draw from the wells of salvation (Isa.12:3).

P.A.G.      The Lord came to a land where the Spirit was not appreciated. He was a “root out of dry ground” (Isa.53:2), but He brought in conditions into which the Spirit could come.

H.T.F.      The Spirit is sent from heaven. He is not in the world, He is in the assembly, and I wondered if that linked with this area, because that is what has come from the death of Christ. The Spirit did not come before “my land” and “my kindred”.

P.A.G.      This blessed Person who has been sent from heaven comes to do the Father’s will, but He continues to operate in relation to what heaven would wish. The servant was not influenced by what happened in the scene around him. Indeed, the family said, let her stay “some days, or say ten” (v.55). But the servant asked the maiden and she said, “I will go”. He was not desirous of being detained; he wanted to return so that Isaac might have his portion.

H.T.F.      I was thinking of what you were saying as to relying too much on the pipes. The Spirit brings what is of heaven, which is current. That is like the well.

P.A.G.      Yes; I think that is good. I had thought of reading passages from John’s gospel, but we only have a certain amount of time; “he shall receive of mine and shall announce it to you”, and “whatsoever he shall hear he shall speak”, John 16:13,14. He is continually hearing that. What we have spoken of earlier as to going forth from with the Father – that is His characteristic service and characteristically He is bringing what heaven is saying to us.

R.D.P.      It says of Rebecca that the servant “was astonished at her” (v.21). There was nothing else required in relation to Rebecca. I wondered if that would equate with the fact that Esther “required nothing”. You get the adorning – that is another aspect of the truth – but as to what she was, she needed nothing.

P.A.G.      Yes, that is important. The Spirit is sent from heaven, and the assembly is heavenly in origin, heavenly in destiny and heavenly in character. Surely we need nothing else apart from what the Spirit provides as a divine Person here. We have our Head in heaven and we have the Spirit here; anything else would merely detract from what the Spirit is doing, not add to it.

P.M.      Rebecca did not carry anything over that was unsuitable; it was “my land”, and “my kindred”. In type, everything was in keeping with the Father’s heart for Christ, and that was what she was in herself. Esther was adorned with everything that she needed, she lacked nothing. It is a wonderful answer for the heart of Christ that the assembly is entirely in accord with Himself and with the Father’s heart.

P.A.G.      Yes. I know it is a slightly different aspect, but when Adam saw the woman, he said, “This time it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh: this shall be called Woman”, Gen.2:23. There was something exclusive about that person who God brought to him that was so different from anything else that Adam had ever seen.

P.M.      Is that what the Spirit is working at today, the purity and suitability of the assembly for Christ? We may get a view of what the enemy is doing, but the Spirit is adorning and beautifying this vessel which is entirely suited to Him. Is that not wonderful?

P.A.G.      I think that, and it brings out the positive character of separation. We spoke a little yesterday in the address about the wall and the fact that it will be very wide (Rev.21:17). It will put a real distance between the city and everything else because there is nothing to compare with the city. The kings will bring their glory to it, and there will be outgoings that are outgoings of blessing, but it will not have any influence coming in from outside in any way inconsistent with what will be inside. I feel that the Spirit, in relation to His heavenly service, would increasingly put a distance between believers and the world.

P.H.H.      I was wondering about this matter of Esther obtaining grace “in the sight of all them that saw her”. What would you say as to that?

P.A.G.      The Lord’s word to Philadelphia is that, in the millennium, they “shall know that I have loved thee” (Rev.3:9); there will be that public testimony. But in this setting, everyone would understand what king Ahasuerus might favour, and when they saw Esther, they would say, this is surely what would suit the king best. If we know what pleases the heart of Christ, then we surely see that the assembly is what would please Him best, do you think?

P.H.H.      I am glad of what you say. I was thinking about what was provided, what the chamberlain appointed; that in type is the service of the Spirit. He would engender in our hearts an appreciation of what there is in the assembly for Christ.

P.A.G.      What you draw attention to is important. We may pass over this word “appointed” lightly, but the Spirit is a divine Person and therefore if He appoints something, we need to be subject to that. It does not say ‘she required nothing but what he gave her’ but what Hegai “appointed”. The Spirit in that sense has appointed certain things in relation to the assembly and we are obliged to be subject to that.

P.H.H.      It would promote sensitivity in our hearts as to what the Spirit is saying at any time.

P.A.G.      In the service of God, we are dependent on the Holy Spirit. Of course, the Lord is Minister of the sanctuary; in that sense He is leading, but we should also be sensitive to what the Spirit might appoint in order that divine Persons might be satisfied.

R.W.McC. Would Hegai have known what was required to bring out the beauty that was there, and what the king would appreciate? I was thinking that when we speak of the assembly being heavenly in origin and destiny, and heavenly in character, we could also say that she is heavenly in beauty, because she has attracted the heart of Christ, she has captivated Him.

P.A.G.      That is another important thing, because the world does not appreciate the assembly. In the present condition of things, men do not appreciate it at all; they despise it. When those to whom He came saw the Lord, although they were His people, it says “and when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him”, Isa.53:2. The same would be true of the assembly. It would perhaps be held up to criticism or ridicule, even for just having a simple hall like this with no artefacts, no vestments, no robes, no music, none of the things that the natural mind would think are all part of the adornment. But they are not what the Spirit has appointed.

R.D.P.      Does Romans give us something of the beginning of the Spirit’s appointments? Romans 8 speaks about those that “do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit. For they that are according to flesh mind the things of the flesh; and they that are according to Spirit, the things of the Spirit” (vv.4,5). The things of the Spirit are a great subject, but in that pivotal chapter in Romans, they are introduced into the believer’s experience.

P.A.G.      We have been taught that in spiritual matters, things are substantial. In natural matters, we might think of things being just a vague expression, but spiritual matters, “the things …. that are not seen” (2 Cor.4:18), are eternal. It is an expression of what is substantial. The things of the Spirit are a lot more substantial than the things that are seen and which pass away. In Romans, for example, we know that the mind of the Spirit is life and peace (Rom.8:6), while in Colossians we are told about their “love in the Spirit” (Col.1:8); these are some of the things of the Spirit. There will be many others no doubt that the brethren could think of, but the Spirit is bringing us, through these things, to appreciate the Father.

R.D.P.      I like what you say about the things of the Spirit. Paul says, “seek the things which are above, where the Christ is”, Col.3:1. That is a suggestion of what is substantial, but they have to be searched out and the epistle to the Colossians particularly touches on searching things out.

P.A.G.      It raises quite an exercise with me – how many things of the Spirit could I speak about? How many things that are above could I enumerate? I do not mean that as some kind of mental test, but how much do I appreciate them?

H.T.F.      Later in Romans 8 it says, “What shall we then say to these things?” (v.31).

P.A.G.      That is important. What are some of these things? They would include “whom He has foreknown, he has also predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he should be the firstborn among many brethren. But whom he has predestinated, these also he has called; and whom he has called, these also he has justified; but whom he has justified, these also he has glorified”, Rom.8:29,30. These are real things. They are not simply an abstract statement; the Spirit makes them real to us.

R.D.P.      In Romans, there is a progress in the epistle, and it leads to the coming into being, the formation, of the Christian company. That would be one of the things of the Spirit in chapter 12. It is a very searching question, not only for our younger ones but for all of us, about whether we could enumerate much of a list of what these things are.

P.A.G.      We have been taught as to some of them: the kingdom, the new covenant, reconciliation, eternal life. These are not just abstract ideas; you get them all in Romans 5. They are there, but the question is, can I identify them?

J.S.      It is infinite blessing for us, and are there also things that are of value to the Father and to the Son? I was thinking of the reference in Genesis to the treasure of the master (Gen.24:10).

P.A.G.      In the world, somebody might be given something because another person does not need it any more or because they have something better now. The Father only gives us things that He values. “For ye have not received a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye have received a spirit of adoption” – that was the Father’s desire for us – “whereby we cry, Abba, Father”. The Father has given us something, but then He gets a response as a result.

J.S.      All that we can bring to the Father is what we have received from Him, what we have received concerning Christ by the Spirit. It is a wonderful circuit in which we have our part, and it is added to as we enter into it more fully.

R.W.McC. Mr Stoney speaks about the things that the Spirit conducts us into. Liberty is one of them, at the beginning of this chapter, and then sonship where we have read. I cannot enumerate them, but it gives us a great impression of them. The Spirit’s personal service is seen in the living water; it is really the Spirit personally involved in this.

P.A.G.      It is important for us to understand that the Spirit’s service is a living, active service. He is serving the Father and the Son, and He is serving us. Even the word you have used, that He conducts us into things – that involves activity. Sometimes we are slow learners, and sometimes we resist Him and do things that would offend Him and grieve Him, but He does not give up His service.

P.M.      We have not only been given adoption, but we have been given the very feelings of sonship. That must be by the Spirit.

P.A.G.      I think that. You are thinking that the spirit of adoption would involve that. You might have the title conferred, but not the feelings suitable to the title. Do we see the way in which divine Persons work together? The Lord says in John 17 “that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them” (v.26). That is the Lord in activity, but here is the Spirit in activity, and what is in view is that such a standard of divine affection might not just be appreciated by us as onlookers, but rather as participators in it. Is that not worthy of response?

P.M.      You cannot help but respond when you think of the way in which God has operated in order that we should not only be brought into the most favoured position, but that we should be given the very Spirit that belongs in that sphere.

P.A.G.      And also, do you think, the power to participate.

D.J.R.      That word “Abba, Father” that we can say by the Spirit is really the closest word of affection for the Father that we could possibly use.

P.A.G.      I think so, and I am affected by the fact that these are the words that the Lord used Himself in the garden of Gethsemane. His affections for His Father were undimmed by all that He faced. It shows that, at that point, He specially valued the consciousness of the love of His Father. He would know that not long after that, there would be the cross and the forsaking. I do not believe we can fathom the depths of what that meant to the Lord, and yet in that garden, despite all that the enemy no doubt was bringing before Him with all the force he could muster, and anticipating the awfulness of what lay ahead, He says “Abba, Father”, Mark 14:36. We spoke at the beginning of the perfection of the Man: what perfection! He did not ask why He was required to face these matters, He did not complain, He went on in perfect complacency because it was the will of the Father. As has been suggested, the contemplation of this One would form feelings of sonship in us. The appreciation of the sufferings of Christ and how He went through them would serve to refine the feelings of sonship in our hearts, and the Spirit would do that.

P.M.      And in Revelation 22, there are those very feelings towards Christ of entire suitability with the feelings of the Spirit. What a wonderful vessel the assembly is.

P.A.G.      It is something to contemplate that a creature vessel should be able to act in concert with a divine Person. This does not seem to be anything other than a mutual expression; “And the Spirit and the bride say, Come”. It is not that the Spirit says come and the bride responds by adding her voice to it, but the way it is presented here, they speak together.

R.W.McC. Could you help us about whether it is a moment in time, or is it characteristic of the dispensation?

P.A.G.      It is characteristic of the dispensation. The Lord speaks of being like “men who wait their own lord” (Luke 12:36), so it is characteristic of the dispensation. The Spirit and the bride are waiting and I believe ready to welcome that archangel’s voice.

A.M.      Is this in response to the Lord being appreciated as the “bright and morning star” (v.16)? His coming is imminent.

P.A.G.      You might say that as the light dawns in the sky, the eyes of faith look up and they see the morning star and “the Spirit and the bride say, Come”. As that voice rises from the earth, there is an answering voice from heaven.

R.D.P.      Do you get the sense here that the bride is a complete work? There is something complete. It is almost a touch of the eternal Spirit and there is something formed. We cannot embrace the thought with our natural minds, but there will be something complete there formed by the eternal Spirit, that great work having gone on, and in unison.

P.A.G.      There will be a point, perhaps today, when the very last person, the very last stone, will be added to the building, the last person will accept the Lord as their Saviour and the Father’s voice will be heard in heaven. The Lord will come and that will be the completion of the Spirit’s work here. It will be complete! What heaven has set its heart and mind on in a past eternity will be complete and we will be part of it. We will hear the Lord’s assembling shout (1 Thess.4:16), and we will go.

H.T.F.      The Lord Himself said of that day that no one knows, “nor the Son, but the Father”, Mark 13:32. This is in accord perfectly with that moment.

P.A.G.      That is what I think. There will be a perfect consonance between heaven and earth, and the Spirit will see to it that what is here will answer to what is in heaven.

P.M.      Am I right in thinking that this word “Come” means ‘Come now’? It is not ‘Come soon’ but ‘Come now’. Is that what the Spirit is forming in our affections as individuals and collectively, so that we are saying, ‘Come now’?

P.A.G.      I think that, and while we might look on the Lord’s coming as relieving us from all that is here, this is much more than that. His coming is not so that we might be taken out of this scene exactly; it is rather that the Lord might have what His heart has been set on and that the Spirit’s work might be complete. The Father’s heart will be satisfied in seeing this. When we are together on a Lord’s day morning, the whole of the service of praise takes place before the face of the Father. There is a point at which we respond to the Lord, and then to the Spirit and to the Father, but the Father looks on over the whole scene. He is looking on over this scene, and He will be satisfied when He gives the word to Christ and Christ claims His own.

P.M.      For two thousand years the Spirit has been unfolding the glories of Christ to the assembly, so that she says, He is everything that I am longing for, I only want Him; Come now.

P.A.G.      Yes, and “she required nothing” except what in type the Spirit provided.

Reading at Grimsby

9 July 2017

LIST OF INITIALS

H.T.F.            H Tim Franklin            Grimsby

P.A.G.            Paul Gray            Grangemouth

P.H.H.            Paul Hutson            Grimsby

A.M.            Andrew Martin            Buckhurst Hill

P.M.            Paul Martin            Colchester

R.W.McC.      Rob McClean            Grimsby

R.D.P.            Ron Plant            Birmingham

G.J.R.            G John Richards      Malvern

D.J.R.            Daniel Roberts      Strood

J.S.            James Shearer      Aberdeen

Edited and Published by John Brown and Paul Martin

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