STABILITY

Isaiah 33: 3-6; 14-17; 20-22; 2 Timothy 2: 19

R.H. What was in mind was the thought of stability, particularly the reference in verse 6: "and he shall be the stability of thy times". The previous verses speak of the unstable conditions which are very evident now, probably more than ever in history, external conditions; even men in the world realise that things are just about at breaking point, the bubble is about ready to burst. In every sphere things are unstable - politically, militarily, in governments, religiously, you can look in vain for stability anywhere; but in the midst of such conditions we have this very comforting word to God's people: "he shall be the stability of thy times"; "thy times" makes it, of course, timely. Then I thought the reference to "the King in his beauty" would direct us to the stability that is in Christ as we know Him: "Thine eyes shall see the King in his beauty; they shall behold the land that is far off". Then the reference to Zion and Jerusalem is also connected with what is stable. That is why I read from 2 Timothy 2, because God's foundation stands firm: "the firm foundation of God stands". So in spite of the apparent religious instability the firm foundation of God stands; that is not unstable. We have much to encourage us, and I think there is much need of encouragement. That is simply what one had in mind, and I trust that all will feel to contribute so that we might get the gain of what we have here in the way of gift and in the way of the work of God in the saints generally.

C.C.I. Would this link with Matthew's gospel which presents perhaps the King in His beauty? In that gospel, which is largely judicial, we have the rock in relation to what is communicated to Peter.

R.H. Yes; and Peter himself, whom we could hardly refer to as a sample of stability in the gospels, has his name related to that; so the work of God in his soul is stable. Jehovah is often referred to as the Rock, and He is compared with other rocks: "their rock is not as our Rock", for instance, Deut 32: 31.

E.C.B. Does Psalm 2 also bear on it: "I have anointed my king upon Zion, the hill of my holiness" (v 6) ?

R.H. Yes, that is alluded to specifically. It is a serious time now, everywhere you look it is a serious time; it is only people who shut their eyes to facts who are not disturbed. But we have every reason to be restful because we have resources that are unequalled. It is an amazing thing that men generally do not seem to have much sense of the seriousness of things; men have developed means for complete destruction physically, and yet that does not seem to sober men much. There is nothing stable here.

C.G.H. Why do you think that persons do not face the facts?

R.H. One has wondered about that. I suppose men shrink from the idea of facing God; the way they get around that is to shut their eyes to it, they just simply will not face the facts. That is fairly general I think in most spheres.

E.C.B. One thing it makes us thankful for the activity of the Spirit who restrains, in fact I have often wondered if we sufficiently give thanks to the Spirit for that service.

R.H. Yes, that would be included, speaking reverently, in this that God is to us - stability; "and he shall be the stability of thy times".

F.M.K. The scripture refers to Jehovah who dwelleth on high; is that where we find our resource?

R.H. Yes, and "he shall be the stability of thy times"; so He is beyond any of these unsettling elements; He is invulnerable.

R.L. In verse 2 it says "we have waited for thee". Does that not suggest a knowledge of God when it may appear that He is not at the moment acting, confidence in Him in a waiting spirit?

R.H. That is a very affecting verse because it says "be their arm every morning, yea, our salvation in the time of trouble". That would bear on what was said as to the tendency with us to overlook the presence and power of the Spirit. Every morning would make it characteristic. I think it is a very important matter. I feel it for myself; we tend to overlook the present and characteristic and constant service of the Spirit.

E.C.M. "God is our refuge and strength, a help in distresses, very readily found" (Ps 46: 1) seems to have been a help to the sons of Korah.

R.H. Yes, it is the same God.

E P. Is it encouraging that not only is there stability in God but there is resource in Him? It says "the stability of thy times, the riches of salvation, wisdom and knowledge", and then "your treasure". I wondered whether that would keep us steady and help us to draw on the resource for every exigency.

R.H. I think that is very important; drawing on the resource that we have should become characteristic. We tend (at least I have to speak for myself) to become very formal and say our prayers. I have a prayer list; I thought that was a very good idea at first but I find it is getting a bit formal now so I keep revising it.

C.C.I. Is there any link with Habakkuk; "I work a work in your days", chap 1: 5? The only reference to faith in the Old Testament is found in that book (see chap 2: 4).

R.H. Yes: "your days" you are linking with "thy times" here. I think it is a very impressive thing that God, in all His greatness and ma jest y, should use this language in a comforting way in the presence of all this disorder, distress and what seems uncontrollable; all these terroristic organisations, the power of Communism, the power of Rome, the revival of Islam, these black republics; everything is just on the edge of a knife now, it is so sensitive.

C.B. Would it be right to say that, through sovereignty and grace, it is the treasure we have found in His love that stabilises us?

R.H. Yes, and the knowledge of God.

G.W.E. Does the alternative rendering in the note help us? 'Wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times': this is where it is to be found, is it not?

R.H. Yes, so it has to do with God's character.

E.C.B. Is it a point of stability there against a background where Christ is everything? Christ in Colossians is really salvation, wisdom and knowledge, is He not? Paul commends the Colossians: "rejoicing and seeing your order, and the firmness of your faith in Christ". Does the present disorder in the world relate to the unrestrained activity of the mind of man?

R.H. Yes. The reference to the greatness of Christ in Colossians (I was noticing the other day Mr Darby referred to it) is what He is Himself, His Person; it is not His attributes, it is not anything official, He is that regardless of anything, He must have the first place in all things, not because of any quality. I think it has been said that He has earned His place in heaven, He is worthy of it, but Colossians is what He is.

E.C.B. Hence does stability, as far as we are concerned, come back to the elements of the truth in us? Really our stability lies in our apprehension that Christ is exalted. If we do not apprehend that we shall be totally unstable but it all lies in the fact that Christ is exalted, does it not?

R.H. Yes. I wondered if it would be right to link that with seeing the King in His beauty and the land that is far off. I know that the King is official but it would have to do with His being exalted. I was linking it in my mind with what Stephen saw. There was great disorder then in the judicial setting and yet Stephen was perfectly restful and he saw the glory of God and the Son of man (see Acts 7: 55,56). What Stephen saw was very extensive, but there was nothing unstable about him.

E.C.B. Why do you think that Paul commends "the firmness of your faith" in Colossians, chap 2: 5?

R.H. You will have to tell us.

E.C.B. Would you think that Moses was yearning after this in Psalm 90 when he says "And let the beauty of Jehovah our God be upon us" (v 17)? Having lived with people in circumstances of instability for forty years and found it in himself for forty as well, is he looking for what characterises the King in His beauty that it may characterise God's people?

R.H. Yes, I think that is very helpful; he says "thou hast been our dwelling-place", Ps 90: 1.

J.C.E. Is there the thought of what is moral at the end of verse 5? Just before "the stability" is mentioned there is "justice and righteousness". It occurred to me that on our side we shall not know stability unless those things are with us.

R.H. Yes, and even more extensively in verse 14 and what follows: "Who among us shall dwell with the consuming fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting flames? - He that walketh righteously", and so on. So the moral side is very much stressed.

J.R.S. Did Abraham come to assess things by their foundations?

R.H. You will have to explain that please.

J.R.S. It says in Hebrews that he looked for a city that had foundations. I suppose they would not be seen but he would know they were there. There is no foundation referred to in the tower of Babel.

R.H. It is helpful to see that. The foundation in Abraham would be faith, would it not?

E.C.B. That is interesting in regard to Abraham because he rejoiced, the Lord said, to see My day (see John 8: 56), really looking on to the world to come that this scripture speaks of.

R.H. Yes. I think Mr Raven said that the principles of the world to come are in the hearts of the saints now. I think it is a very wonderful thing, just the statement in itself, that "he shall be the stability of thy times". You always have resource in God; it is not just the statement but it would involve the consciousness of it. So you meet brethren who give you the impression that things do not disturb them much.

F.M.K. So while there are exercises which we have to face in Revelation 1, 2 and 3, we come to what is stable in chapters 4 and 5, do we not?

R.H. Yes, the throne standing in heaven, still standing in spite of all that is down here; and then of course there is stability in Christ, in the way He presents Himself.

J.E.M. So stability depends not only on a firm foundation but high up there are connections to what is existing that keep things right vertically.

R.H. Do you mean our relations with divine Persons?

J.E.M. Yes; the reference to Christ on high is a connection at the top that keeps things stable, supported at the bottom but maintained at the top too.

R.H. The moral side down here; but the reference to the King in His beauty and the land that is far off is very stabilising too because it alludes to the immovable place that Christ has now where He is; there is His beauty.

A.A.B. Would you say that stability is seen in Paul in the shipwreck? I was thinking of his allusion to the angel of the God whom he served (see Acts 27: 23); he was regulated from above. Then later does the prow of the ship sticking itself fast and remaining unmoved show that we are right in looking for something here of that character now in the saints?

R.H. Yes exactly; that would link with 2 Timothy 2, that that firm foundation stands, but it is based on moral qualities in the saints; it does stand and it is going to stand.

A.A.B. You mentioned the work of God in the saints with appreciation; it is in every believer. Is there a particular quality or character which is called for in this present time of instability?

R.H. I think separation from evil. What do you say?

A.A.B. I wondered that, the importance of the pursuit of righteousness; the ship was lost because control was lost.

R.H. Yes. Someone was speaking the other day about spiritual anarchy; that is the opposite to this - control being lost. I think that is a rather prophetic expression just now.

E.C.B. Say some more about that please.

R.H. It is a constant concern to me to see the inveterate activity of the enemy to reintroduce Bethesda principles that we have ostensibly gone over and judged, and yet the enemy never stops, never misses a chance to weaken authority and to bring in what is anarchical which would involve what is systematic too. I mean it is not just individuals, he has a system working and that is what we see now in the disorder in the world, these terroristic elements are all linked up in a systematic way. That is anarchy. Anarchy is not exactly someone throwing a bomb but it is part of a system to undermine authority everywhere.

E.P. Do you think that Paul's ministry, in its moral, systematic application, is the antidote to that? And thinking about what was said as to the shipwreck, all those who stayed with Paul were saved. Paul's ministry enters into the individual, into the household and also into the assembly. I wondered whether that would further this matter of stability.

R.H. I do not see how we can have stability apart from that, "If any one thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him recognise the things that I write to you, that it is the Lord's commandment", 1 Cor 14: 37. We must cling to that, and to the extension of it in Mr Darby's ministry especially which I think is foundational. There is a constant effort to dislodge us from that foundation.

D.J.R. At the end of Judges you get a time of anarchy with every man doing what is right in his own eyes, and consequent on that is a weakening of what is moral, apostatising from what had been set up; but does revival come in the re-establishment of authority in David, the one who had absolute trust in the foundation?

R.H. David would be the King in his beauty, would he not? So we get here "Thine eyes shall see the King in his beauty".

D.J.H. Is that why you get the reference in 2 Timothy: "Remember Jesus Christ raised from among the dead, of the seed of David", chap 2: 8?

R.H. Actually the foundation has to do with resurrection; so that there is a very definite link with that, indeed the very verse before where we read refers to those who would deny the resurrection. I think that the foundation is related to resurrection connected with David, the sure mercies of David; I think that refers to Christ risen.

B.E.S. In the state of disorder in the world, simple confidence in God will meet it, but what we have to face is breakdown in the assembly. What would you say about that?

R.H. It is the same principle, I think.

B.E.S. But we have to take up matters actively in responsibility in the assembly; we are not called on to put the world right.

R.H. No, but we have definite instruction in 2 Timothy 2 as to what we have to do. I think that when Paul says "what I write" it would be foundational in the same way as this. We must maintain that; the principles of the assembly would be particularly related to that which is foundational. So that what was quoted in connection with the shipwreck would link with that; that sticks firm; the other thing breaks down but the prow of the ship is firm.

E.C.M. Does the word in Hebrews, "Wherefore let us, receiving a kingdom not to be shaken" (chap 12: 28), bear on that?

R.H. Yes, it is brought in in contrast to everything else being shaken.

E.C.M. Yes exactly. Has that not been related in some way to the Spirit here?

R.H. Yes, I am sure it has.

T.B. Paul brings in the loaf in the shipwreck; he brings in food; he had the one idea before him and that everything is going through.

R.H. Food is certainly greatly needed and constantly needed in the assembly. But as to what is political in the world, it is a great comfort to see that God is in control of everything. We have not only to think of ourselves, we have to think of our children; what is going to happen to our children, our grandchildren. What are their prospects? Well, we can trust God in relation to all that; He says, I will be the stability of your times. I think that is a great comfort to parents; it is all in God's hands.

E.P. ls the Supper the assurance that what is stable will continue until He comes?

R.H. That has often been a comfort to me, that we are going to the Supper that the Lord instituted all those centuries ago; Satan has been trying to get rid of it ever since, and yet it is almost ironic that even the calendars are dated from the year of the Lord; that shows that God is still over it all.

G.W.E. Are "the riches of salvation" available at all times? And is their wealth to help us to get through?

R.H. Yes, the riches of salvation, wisdom and knowledge. Mr Raven said salvation is different from deliverance.

A.A.B. What did he mean?

R.H. I wish he was here to tell us. I got something out of it: salvation is in connection with enemies, deliverance is more to do with the flesh.

E.C.B. Has salvation also in mind what we are saved to; deliverance has the from aspect to it, maybe to lead us to something else as Romans 7 does. But is "the riches of salvation" not merely that we are saved out of the hands of our enemies but brought into that good and spacious land?

R.H. Quite so. I am glad you added that, it makes it positive. Mr Raven was alluding to Zacharias, was he not, we being saved from the hands of our enemies; but he also says deliverance from our enemies there too.

E.C.B. In speaking in regard to the comfort that we might get in relation to our children and for that matter, as you said, grandchildren, we are nevertheless dependent on the work of God in relation to them in their day, are we not?

R.H. Yes, we certainly are, and yet in some way the faith of the parents is not separated from the children. So it speaks, for instance, of "on account of the fathers", Rom 11: 28. I have sometimes wondered about that; the wealth of what was revived in relation to Mr Darby: that is not all going to be lost. Where has it gone? It has been given up generally, but I think we can humbly say, as holding to it, that God would credit us with it. I hope you follow what I am trying to say.

E.C.B. Yes I do; and is the wide aspect of that, as we have been taught, that God will credit to the many what has been held by the few? But then as to what I might call the family line, we have it much in view in baptism, and thus it would be a comfort to brethren whose children may not be available to them at the present time, that nevertheless God remains and everything remains in His hand.

R.H. Yes, and that God is a family God. God delights in families; so there is something about our children that is special; you can say that without any assumption. The very fact of their being linked with a family that is in the truth, God is in that. I think He has, we could say without any doubt, a peculiar and special interest in our children.

A.H.M. Does Jacob bear that out; "the God that shepherded me all my life long... bless the lads", Gen 48: 16,17? If we have had a life of experience with God we know that He will see the children through too without any question or doubt.

R.H. Yes, so we are all Abraham's sons by faith. I mean what God credits Abraham with, believing Abraham, goes down the family line.

A.A.B. Regarding the principle, "beloved on account of the fathers", would we be rightly exercised to provide a moral basis for that from our side? I was thinking of Naboth.

R.H. You see that, of course, with Esau; he was in the family but he did not justify the place because he despised the birthright and then he lost the blessing and eventually he is hated by God; so the moral side must correspond. But still, we are dependent on God to revive where there has been departure, are we not?

A.A.B. Indeed. Naboth said he would not surrender what he had received from his fathers (see 1 Kings 21: 3). I was just trying to get the link in your thought as to what has been in the revival, the lustre in which it began and the character in which it is going to finish.

R.H. It seems to me it is a great thing to get into our souls that God is going to carry it through, that He did not make any mistake in that divine intervention through Mr Darby, because that was an intervention of heaven, it was not anything casual. I have thought that what Mr Darby received, in a sense, would compare with Pentecost, it was an intervention from heaven directly. That is certainly going to go through, and it is a tremendous privilege for any of us to have a part in it, and it is a tremendous matter to keep it, not to let it slip away. The way for it to slip away is what has been spoken of as this rebellious line that Satan has always been on, and he is still working on.

E.P. There is a tender but very telling word in the Proverbs with regard to the children. There is the responsibility of the children and the work in the children· themselves: "Thine own friend, and thy father's friend, forsake not" (chap 27: 10); and then the father speaks: "Be wise, my son, and make my heart glad" (v 11).

R.H. I think that Solomon being brought in is very apropos because God prophesied as to him and yet he was very much tested morally and actually failed on the moral line.

C.C.I. Would you say a little more as to the great recovery of the truth through Mr Darby particularly? I was just wondering whether the word "Remember your leaders" (Heb 13: 7) in the context of being carried away with various and strange doctrines, would be fundamental, that everything we are working out is particularly in the Collected Writings. There may be a tendency to underrate what is on our bookshelves?

R.H. Well, what I find with my boy is that he thinks that Mr Darby is a bit old-fashioned; I mean he finds it heavy going. He said to me one day, I am reading Mr Darby and am finding it heavy going. I said, Well, do not mind about that, I find it heavy going too. But still, it is the real gold. We must not idolise him because it is the foundation of God that stands firm; but the revival of it in Mr Darby's time to my mind is peculiar. There was a revival in Luther's time but there has never been anything to compare with the revival which through grace, we could humbly say, we inherit. That is not claiming anything; we do if we do.

J.C.E. The evangelical volumes are much less hard going than the others.

R.H. I remember that you said that and I have read them since and it is not nearly as hard going.

E.C.B. What you say about Mr Darby, which is true, does underline another point for us, that we shall not grasp the truth unless we are prepared to work at it. Mr Darby remarks in Notes and Comments, in relation to John that "the application of [out of his belly... ] is easy if the foregoing be understood", (Vol. 7, p.105). That caught me out.

R.H. That is a big 'if', is it not?

E.C.B. But we shall not get the gain of any of the truth if we do not work at it, will we? In fact Mr Taylor's ministry, profound as it is, is very simple to read.

R.H. What I find is a tendency to want to read more and more quickly and perhaps miss the point; it might be better to read until you get to something that you really feel is God's word to you then, and then explore that.

D.J.H. Is this for us "the good deposit entrusted", 2 Tim 1: 14? We are dependent upon the Holy Spirit to keep it. Should we read the Scriptures as in communion?

R.H. I think that is very true and very testing too. That is not saying your prayers, or reading your morning chapter either.

J.C.E. I suppose in one sense we could look upon the fear of God as being the good deposit. I was thinking of the word here: "the fear of Jehovah shall be your treasure".

R.H. "Your treasure": that is fine.

J.C.E. I was thinking of the matter of the families; it is a treasure that can be passed on, is it not?

R.H. Yes. Solomon's regime was marked by treasuries and treasurers, not so much the military side.

E.C.B. Could you say something more as to the way in which we might make a scripture like this our own; "and he shall be the stability of thy times"? We would all be very much comforted if, for those of us who have them still, we tore off the calendar and found this text on it; that is going to be a great help to me today and so it would be. But how do we, as it were, get into the reality of it?

R.H. Well, the same thing would apply to the Psalms, would it not? So many real believers get comfort from reading the Psalms which do not really apply to them. But what I can see in it is that to claim these promises we must be genuine and characteristic believers and it must depend on faith being active in us, would you think?

E.C.B. Yes; many other scriptures would bear on it like "he that draws near to God must believe that he is" (Heb 11: 6), and also "the hope... which we have as anchor of the soul", Heb 6: 19. But it is very easy for a scripture like this to be purely objective and a comfort to us; it is almost like a baby's comforter in some ways. There is a lot of comfort but no nourishment. How do we get this in substance?

R.H. I think it is more than faith. Mr Raven said we do not get anything by faith, did he not?

E.C.B. Yes, he said we get everything by the Spirit.

R.H. Yes; well that is the answer to your question.

E.C.B. Well, it helps on the way; but then the question is how are we practically to get the gain of the Spirit in this way so that we are ourselves stable? I have thought - in fact I spoke about it not very far from here - that we tend to think of the Spirit as a kind of an emergency service rather than the necessity and availability of every day.

R.H. Yes. There is a remark of Mr Taylor's, that would connect with what you say, as to "There is then now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus", Rom 8: 1. He said that is not a general statement but is something to be experienced and enjoyed. So we would have to see whether that is true, whether we are conscious of being free of condemnation. That would be by the Spirit but it would not be by the Spirit objectively, it would be something known by the Spirit.

E.P. How would you regard that reference in 2 Corinthians 1: "For whatever promises of God there are, in him is the yea, and in him the amen, for glory to God by us" (v 20)? Then it goes on: "Now he that establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, is God, who also has sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts" (vv 21,22).

R.H. It seems to me that in the early part of the first epistle some of the statements are looking forward on the basis of spiritual optimism; whether they were true of them at that time is questionable, in fact we know some things were not. He could not open them up and yet they were true of them abstractly; they would become true of them as they became adjusted morally and made way for the Spirit, which would go on to the second epistle where he opens up these things more. But you say more.

E.P. "Whatever promises of God there are, in him is the yea, and in him the amen" - that is in Christ - but I was noticing the proximity of the Spirit to that statement of the truth.

R.H. Yes; whatever is in Him administratively towards us would reach us by the Spirit, would it not?

E.P. Hence the expression "earnest of the Spirit", it becomes a real matter.

C.G.H. I think your observation as to 1 Corinthians and some of the statements in the earlier part as being perhaps we might say anticipatory, is most helpful, because things develop later on, do they not?

R.H. Yes. This matter of the firm foundation of God standing is very fine in relation to Paul's spiritual optimistic faith as to Corinth. We were noticing last night in the local reading that in the last chapter of 1 Corinthians Paul goes on with the positive line of the truth and how the Corinthians are to conduct themselves in a positive way, just as if the earlier part had never needed to be dealt with. He had absolute confidence that the letter he wrote under the Lord's direction and the Spirit's power would effect his word, so that he then goes on to this very same thing of what is foundational; he says "be immovable... knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord", 1 Cor 15: 58. It is remarkable that he should say that after that chapter which deals with resurrection; I think it is all based on resurrection.

C.G.H. It is most interesting and helpful too in viewing both epistles.

R.H. Yes, so after all the severe things he has had to say in the earlier chapters he is not thinking, I hope they will accept what I say, perhaps they will; he is absolutely confident. So he goes on with normal instructions; he says, greetings from the other assemblies; he does not say we will have to treat you at a distance until we are sure this matter is settled, he is optimistic spiritually. So he said on the ship, I know that you will all be saved (see Acts 27: 34), there will not be anybody lost.

E.C.M. Do you think we need help by the Spirit to relate ourselves more to what is not affected by break down or failure? What God does He does for ever, it abides and would be related to the firm foundation of God. You referred to the work of God in the saints.

R.H. I thought that would link with what it speaks of as Zion here; it says "Look upon Zion": that would be an allusion typically to the assembly. We know it has other more direct meanings, but "Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities; thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tent that shall not be removed"; you have the same thing there, what is not going to be overcome. The Lord says that the gates of hades shall not prevail against it (see Matt 16: 18).

E.C.M. Very much like what it said in the Psalm: "God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her at the dawn of the morning" (v 5).

R.H. I think it is a very great comfort to us now because publicly things look fragile; you feel that, and the enemy is very active all the time; but it says "Look upon Zion", as if you look at the truth of the assembly from the divine standpoint. There is going to be something that answers to that and it will not be moved.

E.H.W. Does that link back with verse 5: "he hath filled Zion with justice and righteousness"? Are they two of the factors that cause it not to be moved?

R.H. Yes, moral foundation stones; but it is a fine thing to have this sense that God has something here morally that is going through and that is impregnable.

E.C.M. Is that what is in mind in Hebrews: "ye have come to mount Zion", chap 12: 22? Would that be that we have come to it in faith and by the Spirit, that there is that which is immovable, invulnerable?

R.H. There is a great encouragement, when you have almost arrived at the point when everything is gone, and then this is revived in your soul that it has not. It is revived in your soul and confirmed by substance, that is the work of God in the saints; you find that, it is indestructible, what God doeth He doeth for ever.

W.J.R.B. Is it just what the Lord says in Matthew 18: "For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I" (v 20). There is no question about it, is there?

R.H. Yes, excepting that that has to be examined carefully as to what is in the condition "unto my name", because there are lots of people claim that but "unto my name" is conditional.

F.M.K. Is there complete control here: "Jehovah, our lawgiver, Jehovah, our king"?

R.H. Yes, and there are no ifs or buts or doubts: "a tent that shall not be moved, the stakes whereof shall never be pulled up, neither shall any of its cords be broken; but there Jehovah is unto us glorious, - a place of rivers, of broad streams; no galley with oars shall go there, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby. For Jehovah is our judge, Jehovah, our lawgiver, Jehovah, our king: he will save us". That is the salvation you were talking about, is it not?

E.C.B. Yes; these references to justice and righteousness relate actually to the day when God judges the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has appointed (see Acts 17: 31). This is not righteousness on our side, it is righteousness introduced by God and established in Christ. I was just going to remark also that while much that is said here and elsewhere as to stability relates to Zion, and it says her stakes shall not be pulled up, stability does not necessarily imply stationary.

R.H. You will have to explain the difference.

E.C.B. Well, are we not concerned with the movements of the testimony still, and stability in that is as important so that we experience stability as the testimony still moves.

R.H. Yes, so that life involves movement, evidence of paralysis is that it is on the way to death.

C.B. When Paul found Onesimus he found a slave and sent him back as a brother.

R.H. I had never thought of that; you are alluding to Philemon. This matter as to movement is important because, much as we value Mr Darby's ministry and that of others, they are not Scripture and they are not the last word. No one would speak in any way derogatorily of them, but the last word is what we get currently from the Spirit, is it not?

E.C.B. Yes, I think that is important, and important that it is understood. It is not that we are looking for fresh truth; Paul said it was given to him to complete the word of God, although as was observed in London the other day, John had the Revelation after that; but we have not yet reached the fulness of the word of God that was given to Paul, have we?

R.H. No.

E.C.B. And there is progress to be made in that.

R.H. The concern with me in our meetings is that we go too fast; we have a number of intelligent brothers who can quote Mr Raven and Mr Darby in extenso, and you cannot quarrel with it, and yet when you get through we have not really had more than if we had brought the volumes with us.

E.C.B. It is quite good for the saints, is it not, to spend two or three weeks on a chapter?

R.H. Yes it is, and a few 'selahs' do not do any harm. There will even be half an hour of silence in heaven once.

T.B. Is it important that the word of God should be for us at the present moment; that is, the light of God coming into the local assembly?

R.H. Yes, it is not merely historical; it is current, it is operative and living.

J.C.E. The things we are speaking of underline the great importance of the moral quality of hope, do they not? It provides us with a very strong telescope.

R.H. I am glad you speak about that. Hope is greatly needed, especially with the younger generation; we need. always to have in mind that we want to keep them with that element of hope before them so that they do not get discouraged. That requires a great deal of skill, because you might say things that are right, or insist on things that are right, in such a way that young people might lose hope. If things are not done in a spiritual way the young people lose hope. I think Mr Taylor used to say that hope was one of the scarcest things amongst us. The Thessalonians evidently slipped between the first and the second epistle in the fact that hope is not mentioned in the second one.

 

SOUTHEND

13 October 1979

 

Key to initials

A.A.Bellamy, Buckhurst Hill; C.Beale, London; E.C.Burr, London; T.Broughton, Richmond; W.J.R.Brodie, Ealing; G.W.Easton, Redbridge; J.C.Evershed, London; C.G.Hitchcock, London; D.J.Hutson, London; R.Hibbert, Calgary; C.C.lkin, Southend; F.M.Knppett, Maidstone; R.Lawrence, Maidstone; A.H.Martin, Colchester; E.C.Muggleton, Croydon; J.E.Mutton, Redbridge; E.Palmer, London; D.J.Roberts, Gillingham; B.E.Surtees, Felixstowe; J.R.Surtees, Buckhurst Hill; E.H.Wakefield, Sunbury