THE PRESENCE OF DIVINE PERSONS
Isaiah 36:13-15; 37:1-4,14-20;
1 Samuel 30:1-8, 16-21, 23-25; Ephesians 3:14-21
J.L. My exercise is to stress the importance of continually seeking the presence of divine Persons. There is a privilege and a preservative and a guidance to be found there, whether in times when things seem normal or in times of difficulty. It is necessary to communicate with each other at times, but we always have the privilege of seeking the presence of God.
Things had become extremely difficult at this point in the life of Hezekiah. Preservation came through his going into the house of Jehovah. He went in in a humble spirit, and I think the times we are in call for special humility among us all. Hezekiah went into the house of God and sought the help of Isaiah so that Isaiah would pray that God might come in in blessing for the remnant. A second attack from the enemy took place, and Hezekiah again went into the house of Jehovah. This time he spread the letter before Jehovah. We might enquire more fully about the importance of spreading things out before God. It seems he was growing in the enjoyment of relationships with God, and while he was no doubt still glad of Isaiah, he speaks to God himself, not only to ask for help but to give honour and worship to God. I find strength from increasingly seeking the presence of divine Persons. May we all grow in the knowledge and appreciation of the Lord Jesus as we go into His presence more often. God answered Hezekiah’s prayers in remarkable blessing, and I am sure we all look for that very much at the present time.
When we come to the history of David as recorded in Samuel, great loss had arisen and David himself was not free from blame. There was deep distress among the people. Support for David and what we might call the enjoyment of fellowship was almost lost. The people spoke of stoning him and “the soul of all the people was embittered”, but “David strengthened himself in Jehovah his God”. The saving of the situation seemed to be through David’s request for the ephod to be brought. When near to God, he is given great assurance; “Pursue; for thou shalt assuredly overtake them and shalt certainly recover”. The result was not only recovery but spoil, and finally the introduction of help for all Israel in the ordinance established.
When we come to Ephesians, Paul was not exactly praying because of a difficulty – we might say the conditions were normal and happy – but it brings out the great value of drawing near into the presence of God, God now known as Father. Paul desired that the blessedness of that relationship might be more fully enjoyed, and that the saints might expand into the enjoyment of the breadth, length, depth and height, and be fixed and centred in the love of the Christ, the climax of which is indicated towards the end of the chapter. Might that suffice to guide us in our enquiry to help each other to seek the divine presence at all times?
W.B. I was thinking of how, at the beginning of Isaiah, God took him up, as we see in chapter 6, verses 1-3.
J.L. Isaiah became qualified to speak of the glory of the Lord Jesus. That springs from frequenting the presence of divine Persons. I think we grow in knowledge and are developed in affection, but have you more in mind?
W.B. This is what God does with His servant to help His people.
J.L. I noted that we get help in communicating with one another at times, but my exercise is that at all times there is a particular blessing and preservative and guidance to be enjoyed in speaking to divine Persons.
W.B. God may allow exercises or circumstances such that we cannot do anything but go into His presence. Do we not see that in the case of Isaiah here?
J.L. Yes, I think that is right. God may often bring about circumstances to make us feel the need of that, but David also said, “I have loved the habitation of thy house” (Ps.26:8), as if that was where he lived in his affections.
D.McL Was Hezekiah concerned to put God first in his dealings? Generally, the kings of Judah were mixed, some were good, some bad, but Chronicles tells us that Hezekiah “in the first year of his reign, in the first month, opened the doors of the house of Jehovah, and repaired them”, 2 Chron.29:3. He was anxious to restore the worship of Jehovah which had really fallen away and been neglected; he wished to restore it as soon as he could.
J.L. What you say is not only good advice for us, but should be the first principle in our lives. I come back to these words, that it is a privilege and a preservative and a source of guidance. Hezekiah took advantage of the privilege, and the kingdom was preserved by his doing so. In a time of difficulty, he found guidance from God for the needed answer.
R.H.B. Does it underlie what you have said that God has a view of every matter that affects His people?
J.L. Yes. It is said elsewhere in this same book, “My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure”, Isa.46:10.
R.H.B. The Lord’s addresses to the churches in Revelation indicate that He had a view of what was extant in each one. I suppose the challenge for us is whether we want to know that view, or whether we are satisfied with our own opinion.
J.L. Mr Stoney once indicated that when we look at the beginning of Revelation, all seems in the most deplorable condition1, but when we go to the end of the book, it says, “the Spirit and the bride say, Come”, Rev.22:17. When we learn the mind of the Lord we are greatly blessed. I have confidence that the Lord is working at the present time, and we need to learn His mind now. We are closer to the coming of the Lord than when John wrote Revelation. Divine purpose has not changed and if we keep near the Lord, we will be helped to learn His mind.
U.P. I was thinking of Paul writing to Timothy that all had left him, and he says, “But the Lord stood with me”, 2 Tim.4:17. I am sure that he would have brought all this before the Lord, and he would not only have had his own situation in his mind, but that of the saints.
J.L. Paul respected the other apostles, but largely his communications came from the Lord, and clearly his strength to continue in a time of difficulty came from that same source. Do you not think we need that at the present time?
U.P. Often we have our own interests before us, but in this passage, we see that the whole nation is in Hezekiah’s mind.
J.L. Yes, I think that was an important feature of Hezekiah’s request. He had the whole nation of Israel in mind for blessing.
D.D. Do you think that in principle we see something in Isaiah 36 of the gates of hades being against Israel?
J.L. Yes, I do; go on.
D.D. You said a few minutes ago that you have confidence in the Lord and what He is doing. The Lord says that the gates of hades shall not prevail against His assembly (Matt.16:18), and in chapter 18 the Lord speaks about telling it to the assembly (v.17). Can we see there that the gates of hades shall not prevail?
J.L. I have this impression about that passage in Matthew that the gates of hades are like the entrance into the area of silence. The enemy would try to silence response to divine Persons. If we are kept near to the Lord, we will be preserved from silence and helped to have our active part in response.
D.D. In Matthew 18, verse 19, the Lord says, “Again I say to you, that if two of you shall agree on the earth concerning any matter, whatsoever it may be that they shall ask”. Does that involve continually being in the presence of divine Persons?
J.L. It involves seeking the presence of the Lord and having respect for the assembly. I think that in chapter 37, we see the great value of Hezekiah’s desire to keep near to Jehovah. I would like to think we might all become enlarged and helped despite the current difficulties. Hezekiah rises beautifully in his thoughts according to verse 16. How can things be overthrown when we are thinking of God who is “the Same”, sitting between the cherubim? Perhaps some of our brethren have some thoughts about that.
A.D.M. Hezekiah rends his garments and puts on sackcloth; it would be appropriate humility.
J.L. Yes, I think so. In a time of difficulty comparable to the difficulties we have now, Mr Darby said the circumstances call for universal humility2. That is a more important thing than pressing my point of view. It is better to humbly seek the presence of the Lord. I think there is importance in spreading things out. I might feel that the Lord knows all about the exercises – He does – but when I spread them out, I begin to learn His mind about them. Could I, for example, spread a matter out before the Lord and ask His help to take up a position of compromise? There is a blessing in spreading things out before the Lord.
R.H.B. In Philippians the apostle says, “in everything, by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses every understanding, shall guard your hearts and your thoughts by Christ Jesus”, Phil.4:6,7. He opens that passage saying, “Be careful about nothing”. I wondered if the tendency of our hearts is to get agitated and that the enemy tries to work to that end. What you are suggesting would bring a more restful spirit into our hearts, so that we can receive what God would really say to us, which we may not be able to receive if we are in a state of agitation.
J.L. Have you ever discovered agitation at the throne of grace? Could you ever find it where God is “the Same”, sitting between the cherubim?
W.B. In the holy place, the centre is God, not ourselves. We have time to look at Christ in all His glory and majesty, and what He means for God. If He settles things for God, He settles them also for us.
J.L. Very good. The One who has made peace is at God’s own right hand. We are happy in our spirits when we draw near to Him there. He has entered in to open up the way into the holy place. Let us take full advantage of it.
S.P. I was wondering whether you could say something as to the progress Hezekiah makes, because first he sends through Isaiah, but then he goes himself into the house of God.
J.L. Yes, I enjoyed that thought. Hezekiah first of all asked Isaiah to pray for him, but the second time that he entered into the house of Jehovah, you would almost think he was touching breadth, length, depth and height. The difficulty was still there, but the presence of God was being enjoyed, and the answer came from that source. What did you think?
S.P. That is very helpful. Hezekiah was to get something himself. I wondered whether that was something of what our brother was describing, the restfulness that Hezekiah obtained and the help that he received there.
J.L. It might correspond with the reference we have to David going in and sitting before Jehovah. I remember, when I was younger, a brother saying that ‘cream never settles in agitated milk’. Blessing comes from the restfulness enjoyed in the presence of divine Persons. I think we are to be preserved in steadiness in the pathway. Our brother made reference to Paul in a time of extreme difficulty, and despite the extremity, you get the impression that Paul was restful.
D.D. Do we see something of spreading out the matters before the Lord in Acts 4? You see there that Peter and John were in prison, and having been let go they came to their own company and they with one accord lifted up their voice to God (vv.23,24). They were not agitated at all, although the nations were agitated according to Psalm 2.
J.L. Why are the nations agitated?
D.D. Because they do not like the authority of the Lord’s Christ.
J.L. Our preservative is to own His authority and learn His mind.
Perhaps we should go on to Samuel. David himself had failed, but God remains faithful. When David turned to God, he found fresh strength; “David strengthened himself in Jehovah his God”.
R.H.B. Did you have something more in mind about him calling for the ephod?
J.L. Yes, I did. He seemed to feel the need of approaching God in a priestly way. Why do you think he did not ask Abiathar to pray or to help?
R.H.B. I do not know, but that order of priest has been set aside. In God’s word to Samuel, he was going to change the priesthood, but I was quite struck that David felt the need of the priestly garment at this point.
J.L. So even if the official priesthood had failed, the liberty of approach to God is never closed up. There is One there before God who always lives to intercede for us (Heb.7:25). What an encouragement to take up the ephod and approach to that place of resource.
W.B. Is it the consciousness of sonship?
J.L. Yes, go on – underlying priesthood?
W.B. To be always ready to go into the presence of God.
J.L. I think that is what David had in mind in asking for the ephod. He had lost the support of the people, yet by using the ephod he could seek divine support. It is good not only to look for an answer in relation to our difficulty, but to enjoy more fully some impressions of Christ in His glory there at God’s right hand.
G.B. I was wondering if David’s experience with God in his early life would give him strength. He said, “I come to thee in the name of Jehovah of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied”, 1 Sam.17:45. I thought that there was substance there with David.
J.L. He did not go out to face Goliath in a boastful spirit; he went in felt dependence but trusting in all the power of God.
T.B. You said earlier that David was not blameless in relation to this situation. I wondered if David recognised that, and took responsibility himself to go before God.
J.L. I have carried the thought for some time in that respect, that no doubt the enemy is busy, but the Lord is proceeding with a refining work among His saints. He loves them, and if there has been weakness and failure, He is working to secure something more acceptable to Himself. The spirit of David that comes out in later verses shows that he had gained from the exercise, and the psalms that he wrote show that difficulties became productive in his life.
G.T.M. I was thinking about Daniel when his friends were going to be thrown into the fiery furnace. They say in Daniel 3, “If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thy hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods” (vv.17,18). I was thinking that being in God’s presence would remind us that He “is able to do far exceedingly above all which we ask or think”, and that it should affect how we act in these circumstances.
J.L. Very good. They became strengthened in faithfulness. One of the things noted in 1 Samuel 30 is the spoil which David secured.
D.McL. Regarding the refining which you have referred to, the scripture in Isaiah 37 says that God is the Same, and the note gives references in which His glories are seen. In Deuteronomy, God says, “See now that I, I am HE … I wound, and I heal”, Deut.32:39. Is that the refining process producing an end result? It is God who heals; that is, He allows the damage but produces something from it.
J.L. The use of that name, “the Same”, is connected largely in Isaiah with God saying, “I am”.
D.McL. The self-existent One.
J.L. But the product in the saints is when we are brought to the knowledge of God, and we are able to say, “Thou art the Same”, Neh.9:6.
A.J.L. So we should come out of God’s presence stronger. I was thinking about what our brother was saying about healing.
J.L. Yes, I think that is a good thought. It was evident that when Moses went into the presence of God, he came out quite differently. It would be a very strange thing to assume that I could go into the presence of God and come out unchanged.
We should look at Ephesians and consider the thoughts that Paul had for the saints. I had the thought that the circumstances here were not because of difficulties, but were the outcome of Paul’s affections for the saints. Let us not only personally seek the presence of the Lord, but let us pray for one another that there might be enrichment in our localities, and that God should be more fully served, for His glory in the assembly.
U.P. Do we see that the apostle was sustained when he was converted?
J.L. That was a great education for Paul, to learn that there was Christ in glory, but Christ also known among His saints down here. He had respect for the saints and came to greatly love them. Would that be one effect from coming out from the presence of the Lord, that we would value those who are the Lord’s?
R.H.B. Paul tells us about the prayers of Epaphras, that he prayed earnestly “to the end that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God”, Col.4:12. I wondered if we might think of our prayers in relation to that.
J.L. Paul rightly prayed for all the saints. Epaphras was firstly praying for his local brethren.
R.H.B. I was just thinking that we may often pray for those who are going astray, but those who are going on well need to be prayed for. What it is to God to hear such prayers. You have spoken of the strength that we can derive, particularly in times of difficulty, but I wondered if what you are speaking of now gives us some idea of what such prayers are to God Himself.
J.L. I am sure that is right, and I often think about that in asking for these things ‘in the name of the Lord Jesus’. What does that name mean before God? I think it would help us to hold the saints in dignity in our thoughts, and help us all to be more firmly anchored in the love of the Christ. These words, “breadth … length … depth … height”, convey an immense expanse. There certainly is a great expanse, but there is an anchorage point at the centre in the love of Christ.
S.P. It is a lovely expression Paul uses in chapter 1, “The riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints” (v.18).
J.L. Yes, it is part of the glad tidings to tell others that the inheritance is to be enjoyed. That is a fine thought in chapter 1 about God’s inheritance in the saints. He will not give them up; the Lord loves His saints. Keep near to the Lord; seek His presence and ask His mind. That is safe ground.
G.T.M. I appreciate what has been said as to God’s inheritance in the saints. Is that what we should think of about a locality? Sometimes we think about smallness of numbers, and that is certainly a consideration, but there is what is for God in the saints, and that is what we can be occupied with, no matter what the numbers are.
J.L. What thoughts Paul had when thinking of the saints. Look at these last two verses in the chapter, finishing up with this thought about glory to God in the assembly in Christ Jesus. Where we began reading, he was bowing his knees in prayer, but where he ends at the close of the chapter, it is what we would call a doxology.
D.D. He ends Romans with salutations to the saints. They were held in Paul’s affections, as he himself had been, consequent on his conversion.
J.L. And these salutations are for such a variety of reasons – even to one brother who had known Christ longer than Paul had. If we look for reasons to esteem and value the saints, we shall be sure to find them. All the saints are needed to fill out the thought of glory to God in the assembly. Have you any thought about that?
D.D. Only that it is “unto …the age of ages”. What we enjoy now is only what we can enjoy partially, until we are in glory with the Lord and with all the saints.
J.L. The use of the word “generations” would seem to have a reference to time, but it is only because of the limitation of language to express what really belongs to eternity. Meantime, we have to use words that can suitably express the eternal thoughts of God for the saints and for His glory, but I think we become enlarged in our thoughts and strengthened by the Spirit the more we frequent the presence of divine Persons.
Bad Endbach, Germany
7 October 2017