THE GLORY OF THE FATHER
A.J.G. The consideration of these scripture passages might help us to be somewhat enlarged in what we apprehend of the glory of the Father. Ephesians 1, of course, sets out in fulness the glory of divine thoughts that proceed from the Father. We also find there the motives for Him to act: “according to the counsel of his own will” and “according to the good pleasure of his will”, the aim being “the praise of his glory”. Then the passage read in John shows that the resurrection is attributed to the Father. We know that the Lord raised the dead; but by doing so, He Himself said that He was doing the works of His Father. So, according to the scriptures, it seems that resurrection is to be attributed to the Father, and the full extent of the world of glory that the Father opens to us on the other side of death by resurrection makes the glory of the Father shine in our eyes, He Himself operating in the power of resurrection in an area where man and Satan have neither capacity nor power. As we know, in Romans 6 it is said that “Christ has been raised up from among the dead by the glory of the Father”.
The passages read in Mark and in the book of Acts highlight the supremacy that belongs to the Father’s place in the economy. It is a deliberate arrangement, if one can express oneself thus, between the Persons of the Deity: the Father is recognised as in the place of supremacy, and this is very blessed because, as a result, everything that relates to the thought of the “Father” gives character to the whole universe of blessing. That is what is put prominently in the passage read in John 5 where it says that no thought of judgment attaches to the Father: judgment is given to the Son. Those are the thoughts which, I hope, will be able to develop among us for our mutual edification.
The passage of Ephesians reaches a very high level, but I think it helps us to take into account how the Scriptures link the thought of resurrection to the Father, as being part of His glory. His absolute supremacy is also brought out.
H.G.H. Is love the basis of all these operations of the Father?
A.J.G. It seems so, because it is said that what He does, He does “according to the good pleasure of His will”. The verses we have read are the unfolding of remarkable blessing and glory and privilege, and dignity that are intended for men; but the Father bestowed them “according to the good pleasure of His will”. We can understand what a person is from what they take pleasure in. It is very significant, I think, that in Ephesians, which reaches the highest level among Paul’s epistles, the apostle introduces these considerations in the spirit of worship, not on the principle of teaching, but saying: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”.
C.H.M. Is this some kind of doxology?
A.J.G. Yes; exactly. This is how we can receive help, not only at reading meetings, but on occasions when we participate together in the service of God, hearing what is expressed by one or the other in the power of the Spirit. The spirit of doxology helps us greatly in the appreciation of the truth.
-.R. I was wondering if it would help us to have a more extensive view of the scope of the Father’s realm. Do we not, in general, tend to speak freely about our relationship with the Father but little of the Father’s counsel with regard to the realm of glory.
A.J.G. That is rather what I have experienced myself, and I think there is a certain lack in our thoughts in relation to the Father, although the Father seek worshippers; so that, for Him to have worshippers, we need to understand His glory more and more.
H.G.H. Is that not what is highlighted in the greeting of verse 2 where we have the expression, “God our Father”?
A.J.G. Yes; it is the relationship: “God our Father,” so that we are free and at ease in His presence; so that, freed from ourselves and our own blessings, we can contemplate His glory in its various features.
F.B.F. Is one of these glories that He is the source of spiritual blessing?
A.J.G. Yes; that seems to be the case.
A.L.O. Who would be the “him” of verse 11? “Marked out according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his own will, that we should be to the praise of his glory.”
A.J.G. It is an allusion to the Father, as far as I understand it.
A.L.O. It is remarkable that in these few short words, the full extent of God’s thoughts should be displayed, purpose and counsel and works.
A.J.G. Yes; and it gives us an extended view of the Father’s majesty; not at all in the sense of majesty that keeps you at a distance, that is not what I mean, but there is something very majestic in assertion that He “works all things according to the counsel of his own will”. Nothing, no one, could prevent him from doing so.
D.McI. Do you have to think that this might help us greatly in the worship of the Father after the Supper?
A.J.G. Yes. I seek to be helped myself because I feel the need, for the Father is looking for worshippers; that is why we need to develop in the spirit of worship to the Father and, as I understand it indeed, worship springs from the heart of the creature that is in the presence of the infinite blessing of the One he worships.
F.G.H. Would you like to say a word about three mentions of His will in this passage: “the good pleasure of his will”, “the mystery of his will”, and “the counsel of his own will”?
A.J.G. The epistle to the Ephesians reveals the will of God in its vast extent. In fact, I think that God’s will is at the foundation of everything. Of course, there is such a thing as “the counsel of his own will”, which shows that His will is intelligent, that is to say that there is, in relation to this will, a defined purpose; but God’s will, it seems to me, must be at the root of everything. That is why, while we take into account what His will is, we get a feeling of the blessing of the “Father.”
J.T.S. The end of verse 2: “God our Father” was alluded to. Does the phrase: “I bow my knees to the Father” in chapter 3: 14, link with your thought a little?
A.J.G. Yes. “I bow my knees to the Father ... of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named”. The Spirit of God, through Paul, is impressing us with the feeling that there is no higher order than the blessing of the assembly with Christ, but that the Father then takes pleasure in the thought of families, that is from various spheres of blessing, and all recognising the Father as supreme in relation to each of them.
W.W.S. Would that mean that the response of each family is in accord with the impression it has received of the Father and the knowledge it has of Him?
A.J.G. Yes. Each family is given the right to receive a particular impression of the Father, and it seems that the secret is in the fact that the Father loves the Son and given all things to be in His hands. So that every family sees Christ as its Head; but while it looks to Christ as such, it sees the One who finds Himself in divine affections, loved by the Father. Thus the Father acquires His place as supreme in the universe.
F.G.S. As a consequence of what you said, one would expect that, in the phase of the service where the Father is especially before us, more time would be devoted to Him?
A.J.G. I think we should be concerned to have the power to do that because the thought of the Father’s glory is very broad. I wish we could have more defined thoughts in this respect!
A.C.S.P. Would these passages help us see the Father’s activities? We are perhaps inclined to think more specifically of the activities of the Son and the Spirit, and to consider the Father as receiving that which was assured to Him rather than being active Himself to secure it.
A.J.G. That could well be. “The Father raises the dead and quickens them”, the Lord said, John 5: 21.
A.G.B. Having the glory of the Father in mind, does the phrase, “Blessed be the God and Father”, relate to Deity, so that we always have before us who the Father is in the place He occupies in Deity?
A.J.G. That is undeniably true, and very important; and I think the scriptures that are before us will not only impress us in this sense, but will give us the feeling that, in the economy constituted by God to secure man and to secure him for eternity, the Father has the supreme place.
H.W. The initial movement, according to John 6: 44, comes from the Father. The Lord says, “No one can come to me except the Father who has sent me draw him”.
A.J.G. That verse is very interesting because it adds to what has been said about the activities of the Father, to know that He “draws”. First of all He gives; then He draws: “All that the Father gives me shall come to me”, the Lord said, John 6: 37.
C.H. What you say is supported by the scriptures. In all the apostolic epistles the double title “God and Father” is used. The three Persons are acting in that Person. So that the Father, as has been said, retains the place of God in the economy.
A.J.G. The Son and Spirit also possess Deity. They are “God” also; but they desire to accept in the Economy of love a place of subordination and service, not that that minimises in any way their personal glory, but in order to respect the order of the Economy, the place of God is held by the Father, so that the Father’s Name and everything associated with it gives character to the whole Economy.
H.N.V.H. In John 14: 10, we read: “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words which I speak to you I do speak from myself; but the Father who abides in me, he does the works”.
A.J.G. That is a striking passage, and it shows how the Lord constantly directs the thoughts of the disciples to the Father, so that the Father may become the Object of their hearts.
J.G. Does the Lord praise the Father Himself in Matthew 11: “I praise thee, Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth”, in relation to what He reveals to the little children?
A.J.G. Exactly; and in the passage in Luke 10, which corresponds, the Lord said to the seventy: “in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subjected to you, but rejoice that your names are written in the heavens”. And then it says: “In that same hour, Jesus rejoiced in spirit”, as if to make the thought concrete, and He says, “I praise thee, Father, Lord of heaven and of the earth”.
R.G.B. Does the Lord find His pleasure in associating with the Father’s initial work? There is another passage in Matthew 16 where the Lord says, “flesh and blood has not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens”, v 17. The Lord says this of Himself: “I say”, as if it were related to the original work of the Father.
A.J.G. The Father had revealed something to Peter, and then the Lord adds an additional thing: “And I also, I say unto thee that thou art Peter”. It is very interesting that the Father, as you say, begins something and gives Peter the light as to Christ; then the Lord adds and gives Peter the light as to “Peter”. Peter must necessarily have a just view of himself, that is, “thou art Peter”, a stone.
A.B. Does the Lord draw attention to the Father’s personal greatness, when He says: “My Father ... is greater than all”, and again: “my Father is greater than I”?
A.J.G. “Greater than all”, “greater than I”.
J.T.S. Does verse 6 of 1 Corinthians 8 link with what you have before you: “To us there is one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we for him”?
A.J.G. This is the position, we would say, in Christianity, which is regulated by the Economy, “to us there is one God, the Father”, and then “of whom are all things and we for him”. So that all this has to be on our minds, I think, elevating the level of thought we have as to the Father.
A.L.O. The fact that every family in the heavens and on earth comes into view would be the real unfolding of the glory of the Father?
A.J.G. I think so. The Father operates in resurrection and He introduces a great world of blessing on the basis of the resurrection of the dead. I think this is a very important matter, because man’s power ceases with death, and Satan’s power is limited by death. But the Father works in resurrection and introduces a world beyond death, a world marked by much variety, so it includes different families in the heavens and on earth.
A.O.L. Do you think that every family will express some feature of Christ?
A.J.G. I have no doubt, but all the families will feel that the Father is known to them. I think that is clear. In Matthew 25 it alludes to an earthly family; it says: “when the Son of man comes in his glory ... then shall he sit down upon his throne of glory, and all the nations shall be gathered before him”; and He will separate them, putting one part to his right, and the other to his left; and it is added: “Then shall the King say to those on his right hand: Come, blessed of my Father”. It is striking that, in the world to come, the King of kings will tell the saved nations that they owe their blessing to His Father.
G.W.B. What would Paul’s point of view be when he speaks of the Father, saying: “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”?
A.J.G. It may be that it is in mind that God the Father is known to men as God. He is known in the relationship of Father; He is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. But I think, from the way the passage continues in this first chapter, that it is in order to give enlargement to our appreciation of the Father.
D.McI. It was at the coming of Jesus that God placed Himself in this position, of revelation. He is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
A.J.G. You would not know how to apply the title of “Father” before the incarnation; before the Son was here, the relationship did not exist, except, of course, in purpose.
A.J.E.W. Do you have anything to say about adoption? You have talked about the particular impression of every family. Do the assembly’s relations with the Father not have a special character because of the key thought of adoption, a particularly elevated thought?
A.J.G. Indeed. It is in order to adopt us “by Jesus Christ” (KJV) and then “to himself”. This relates well to what we read in 1 Corinthians 8: 6: “of whom all things, and we for him”; the Father operated initially according to His good pleasure. Only He has the right to do so.
H.G.H. The “us” of verse 4, “has chosen us”, would that be an allusion to the assembly?
A.J.G. Yes, to those of the assembly, and it is interesting to note that the relationship of son, in this chapter, is mentioned before there was any hint of the assembly. Of course, “chosen us” is an allusion to those of the assembly, to this the most privileged of all families; but the relationship of son is introduced first, and then the assembly is mentioned at the end of the chapter.
B.F.B. Do we grow in our knowledge of the Father and God by apprehending the way in which the Lord Jesus regarded Him? I was thinking about “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”, and of all that is blessed in the Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Man before the Father. The Father has in His presence the Lord Jesus as the Object of His heart and activities. Is it not the Lord’s desire to bring us into agreement with Himself in His activities?
A.J.G. It is in this that the gospel of John helps especially, everything from chapter 13 on; but the whole gospel is needed by us, on this line of thought. The disciples moved with the Lord, they each received an impression of His relationship with the Father. And when Jesus was raised from the dead, He says, “my Father and your Father ... my God and your God”. So that the disciples had the faculty to appreciate Christ in relation to His Father and in relation to His God.
A.B. This is the position in which the saints are established, in the relationship of son, as is brought out in the first part of this chapter of the Ephesians, with the thought of the saints in nearness to God reverently, and enjoying the affections of the Father. As near to Him, we are able to receive some particular appreciation of His greatness and to stand before Him.
A.J.G. The thought is that we are for the good pleasure of His will and the praise of His glory.
C.H. It is the Father who works according to the pleasure of His will. And He acts so that the Persons of the Deity get results through the Father’s activities.
A.J.G. This is how we reach the thought of the end of chapter 3: “glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus”.
C.H. We tend, as you said, to consider our own blessing in the response of sons, while all that the Father has proposed is before God, God in the three Persons, receiving what is due to them from man.
A.J.G. Exactly. This chapter not only leads to being “holy and blameless before him in love”, but He made His grace abound towards us “in all wisdom and intelligence, having made known to us the mystery of his will”. So that not only does He want us before Him in love but as possessing the knowledge of His will. It is wonderful that God wants to have creatures so much in the intelligence of sons that they may have a perfect apprehension of the full extent of His will.
C.H. So that the consideration of families together under the aegis of the Father gives us the idea of God all in all.
A.J.G. Exactly; that is what will result.
D.McI. Would you like to say something more about the fact that the sons are named before the assembly?
A.J.G. I cannot say much about it. I was simply drawing attention to the fact that it is the order in which the truth is presented in this chapter, namely that the relationship of son is mentioned first, before being holy and blameless before Him in love, before the thought of the assembly is introduced, not that I want in any way to depreciate the assembly. The saints, as being of the assembly, and the saints in the relationship of sons are obviously in an equivalent position.
D.McI. Yes. I was wondering if there would be some connection, in your mind, with the worship of the Father.
A.J.G. No, not especially. It is sons who love, of course, but at the same time the sons move together under the impulse given by Christ as Head, so that the assembly worships.
C.H. Do you think that the lack of contribution to the praise and adoration of the Father is due to a lack of understanding of the Lord’s place on God’s side as well as His own when He comes in at the Supper? As Minister of the holy places, He does not have in view the service that is due to Him or satisfaction with His own affections only, but He serves the other Persons of Deity; He is on God’s side as Minister of the holy places, is He not?
A.J.G. Yes; I am sure it is very important to consider that and, following the statements of the Lord in the gospel of John in particular. I think that one gets the impression that He has no consideration for Himself. He desires to have the assembly with Him and He finds His joy in the affection of the assembly, but in reality, He desires her to be with Him in order that she has, under his hand, a part to the service of God.
C.H. I think that, perhaps, it would have a consequence for the length of time spent on the various phases of the service. We spend a lot of time with the Lord, and it is right that we have enough time with Him; we would not want to limit that time in any way, but there is often a lack of proportion with the phase which relates to the service of the Father, sometimes only a hymn and a thanksgiving, while many things are said of the Lord and the Lord’s relations with the assembly and our relationship with Him. I wonder if consideration of the Lord on God’s side would not bring a better balance.
A.J.G. I am sure that that is necessary and that we would be helped in our response to the Father if we could weigh consideration of the different features of the Father’s glory, not only what He has done for us, but the features of His glory that the Spirit brings before us.
C.H. The Lord has taken the position of Mediator, one of the services of which is that of Minister of the holy places; and it is a perpetual service, for He will keep His position as Mediator to eternity. The Lord’s great concern now, and it will be in eternity, is that God may be served.
J.T.S. We read at the end of John 3: “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand” (v 35), and also what the Lord says in relation to the worship of the Father and the worship of God in chapter 14: is that in view here?
A.J.G. Yes. I have often thought of the Lord saying to the woman, “the hour is coming and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father”. She must have said to herself: Who is the Father? We never heard about Him. We ourselves are used to these things, but for this woman it was a completely new idea. The Lord puts the thing before her without explanation, so that she can be impressed. This idea of the hour being come and is now, that true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth, certainly did not fail to strike her.
E.C.M. You spoke about the Father’s features. Would you care to tell us more about the features of the Father’s glory?
A.J.G. One of these features is that He raises the dead. Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, His power and His love operating together to bring about what the Father delights and finds His rest in; and that is spreading out now to the whole universe of blessing. Everything is brought by the Father on this ground of resurrection. But in this chapter, we are allowed to see His purpose and the counsel of His own will according to which He works all things: He conceives everything in His mind before He begins His operations, which He continues steadfastly without anyone being able to turn Him aside.
E.C.M. So that the Father’s affections are involved in these operations.
A.J.G. It is a great system of love that is introduced. His name as a Father necessarily implies, as we have said, the incarnation of one of the Persons of the Deity, who took a position in manhood and in the relationship of Son. And this relationship is established with the aim that man can have access, by redemption of course.
A.O.L. Everything is connected with “Christ Jesus.”
A.J.G. Yes, and the assembly.
R.G.B. Do the Son’s activities put the stamp of the Father on everything He does, according to what is said in chapter 5 of John: “The Son can do nothing of himself save whatever he sees the Father doing … the Son does in like manner”, v 19?
A.J.G. All the Lord’s activities and the miracles He accomplished, everything had in mind the glory of the Father. Thus, at the tomb of Lazarus, the Lord lifted up His eyes and said, “Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me; but I knew that thou always hearest me; but on account of the crowd who stand around I have said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me”, John 11: 41, 42. The Lord desired that the crowd should understand that by raising Lazarus and performing similar acts, He did the Father’s works. He did not want the glory of these works attached in their minds to Himself, but He desired that their thoughts should be directed to the Father.
Ques. Was this to continue in the time of the coming of the Spirit, sent by the Father, according to the references made by the Lord in chapter 16 of John (v 15) which end with: “All things that the Father has are mine”?
A.J.G. Yes.
R.H.S. In Ephesians l: 17, Paul addresses his prayer to the “God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory”. What would be the scope of that title here?
A.J.G. It is so that all the glory is attributed to the Father. Paul prays that the eyes of our hearts may be enlightened by the spirit of wisdom and revelation. It is easy for us to understand that all of this has in mind to give us substance in the service of God.
W.B.H. John would have that in mind when he said: “To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood, and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father”, Rev 1: 5?
A.J.G. Yes. It is important that God’s service in priestly conditions should be maintained on earth at the present time, in the presence of evil and the power of evil, so that there is this established kingdom, priests to Christ’s God and Father.
C.H. There is more than the priestly service; there is intelligence and affection that are the prerogative of sons.
A.J.G. We insist on priestly conditions because the service takes place in unclean surroundings; but when the conditions of impurity have come to an end, it will no longer be necessary to speak of what is priestly. However, the affections and the intelligence of sons are eternal.
A.G.R. “According to the good pleasure of his will.”
A.J.G. What do you have in mind in drawing attention to “the good pleasure of his will”?
A.G.R. Simply the thought of love that is in the heart of the Father and His good pleasure. The fact that this goes back to what He had purposed is important.
A.J.G. Yes. The thought of God’s good pleasure is very great, because it is not just a question of showing grace to men as a favour or out of magnanimity, but it is what He Himself finds His pleasure in.
F.B.F. What would help us in our response to the Father in relation to purpose, and also in our response to God having the three Persons of the Deity in mind? I would like to be helped about that.
A.J.G. I think that the knowledge of the Father has as its objective to bring us into God’s presence in perfect liberty and full rest. We are here, in happy rest, with the feeling of being pleasing to God and in the enjoyment of the relationship of sons, in the loving intelligence that this relationship implies. But the end in view is God: “To him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus”, Eph 3: 21. It seems to me that it opens up a vast field for our contemplation. We can take account of God conceiving His own purpose before He begins to operate, involving wisdom, as we read in Proverbs 8: 23: “I was set up” (‘anointed’, according to the note), says wisdom; everything was designed with wisdom. Then, with His own purpose as His objective, He worked in creation; then came the wonder of the incarnation; redemption followed, and what glory in redemption! Then there was the resurrection, and what a distinct glory of God is in the resurrection! Then came ascension, the ascension of Christ, a place being reserved for a Man in heavenly places; and in the last the Spirit descended, another Person of the Deity, to abide in the believer. All this was in order to bring man to an intelligent appreciation of God and His glory, as well as the enjoyment of God’s rest.
A.G.B. Is it not significant that in verse 16 of chapter 3, the apostle emphasises the riches of the glory of the Father, according to which He gives to the saints to be strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man? Does that not bear in a distinct way on the question of His service? I am thinking particularly of the phrase: “the riches of his glory”.
A.J.G. We find such expressions in the epistle to the Ephesians; they show that the more we move in this sphere, the more we are impressed by its greatness and glory, not at all, however, a greatness and glory that keeps us at a distance; we really feel at ease at the very centre of this sphere because we know the love of Christ. As Mr James Taylor said1: Because you know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, you are not lost in the immensity of God’s things, but you are at the centre of everything, with Christ, in the enjoyment of His love.
A.G.B. We often realise that we lack being strengthened with might.
A.J.G. I am sure of it, but if only this reading stimulates our feeble desire to be expanded in understanding the varied features of the glory of the Father and, as a natural consequence, of the glory of God Himself, in the fullness of this thought, it will be well worth us coming together.
Rem. “According to his good pleasure which he purposed in himself”.
A.J.G. Everything had its origin in God. He did not have to look outside of Himself, to have such a purpose. It is all based solely on Himself. And that gives us an impression of His own bliss.
W.J. Would you say something about: “that we should be to the praise of his glory”? Is that what we are in essence, and what we are in intelligence, and where we are, as well as what we are expressing?
A.J.G. I am inclined to think that that particular verse relates to Jewish believers because it is said then: “in whom ye also have trusted”. But I think verse 6, where it is said: “to the praise of the glory of his grace”, shows why we have been taken up, that is, to be “to the praise of the glory of his grace”. Then, in relation with the redemption accomplished by the Beloved, we have the expression: “the riches of his grace”.
G.H.M. Would we have this subject in type with Jacob taking Ephraim and Manasseh in his arms and blessing them? The highest degree of blessing being: they “shall be mine”?
A.J.G. Yes; that is so, and the fact that Jacob purposely crosses his hands emphasises the thought of sovereignty in the whole matter. So things have to be accepted on the principle of God’s sovereignty.
C.H. We would like to be helped on the other passages, if I am allowed to ask for it.
A.J.G. I offered them to give a reason for more contemplation of the Father. In John 5, as we have already noticed, we find that resurrection is attributed to the Father and that the thought of judgment is definitely excluded from what relates to the Father. God judges the world, that goes without saying; judgment belongs to God; but judgment is handed over to the Son. So that no thought of judgment attaches to the Father as supreme in the Economy.
C.H. Does not judgment in the book of Acts give rather the idea of administration?
A.J.G. In Acts 17, it is said that He will judge the habitable earth in righteousness; judge, there, rather gives the idea of governing, or administration.
C.S. Would it be the same thought when Peter says: “And if ye invoke as Father him who, without regard of persons, judges according to the work of each”, 1 Pet 1: 17?
A.J.G. That means, I suppose, that the Father forms an impartial judgment in relation to the work of each. As for the execution of judgment, it is entrusted to the Son.
W.J. Would “quickening” involve something more than resurrection? It is said: “raises the dead and quickens them”.
A.J.G. That seems indeed so. I do not think there is a lot to say about it, but in relation to Ezekiel and the valley filled with dry bones, the bones first came together, and so on, and then “the breath came into them”.
C.H. Would being quickened imply that we are now able to live in relation to a new sphere?
A.J.G. Our spiritual affections are affected.
H.F.R. It is remarkable that, in this passage, the ability to quicken is also attributed to the Son, to highlight the co-equality of the Son and the Father; but it is not mentioned here that the Son also raises the dead.
A.J.G. No. That is very remarkable; I have been impressed by it, because we know that He did. He raised the dead, but in doing so, He was doing his Father’s work. In the passage where it is said: “neither does the Father judge any one, but has given all judgment to the Son”, the way in which things are closely related is remarkable. It is said: “that all may honour the Son, even as they honour the Father”. The Son, having taken in manhood a place of subordination, it is affirmed here that He will not fail to be honoured because He did that. Thus, judgment is given to Him. In addition, it is said later: “and has given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is Son of man”, v 27. In other words, judgment is executed by a Man. God ensures that before the whole universe judgment will be seen as being absolutely just in that it is executed by a Man.
F.V.W. “For even as the Father has life in himself, so he has given to the Son also to have life in himself, v 26.
A.J.G. It is a very remarkable expression. What can we say as to that? It seems to be an allusion to the Lord’s position in manhood, so that He might communicate to others the life He has in Himself. “The last Adam” is “a quickening spirit”.
C.H. That is part of verse 45 of 1 Corinthians 15: “The first man Adam became a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit”.
A.J.G. “A quickening spirit,” that is, One who can communicate life, and it is His own life as a Man that He communicates.
R.G.B. Would this have a bearing on the position of the Father’s supremacy in the Economy? It seems that it is related to the other passages you have referred to.
A.J.G. I thought we could linger a little on this subject of the Father’s supremacy. We know that the thing exists, there are passages of scripture that highlight it in a remarkable way, for example this verse that we read in Mark. I do not think we can add anything to it, but take it as it is: “But of that day or of that hour no one knows, neither the angels who are in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father”. It is a remarkable affirmation, expressed in the very mouth of the Lord, which emphasises the absolute supremacy of the Father; and the passage in the Acts speaks of certain things that the Father reserved for His own authority: “It is not yours to know times or seasons, which the Father has placed in His own authority”.
R.G.B. In Matthew 11, the Lord speaks to the Father as “Lord of the heaven and of the earth”, thus giving Him the place of the One who governs the universe sovereignly, do you think? I was wondering if we could link the references to times and seasons.
A.J.G. I would think so. It is not that there is a limitation with God as God, of course; there is no limitation in any of the Persons of the Deity. But there seems to be this feature of particular importance in how the Economy is constituted, according to the purpose of the Godhead, that the Father is set in the supreme place.
F.P.S. Would it help us with regard to the Father’s worship?
A.J.G. I think this goes on to the subject of the worship of the Father, a feature of the Father’s glory.
H.F.R. Your thought is that we should look into the scriptures for these glories as they are brought out in such a way as to elevate and enrich worship to the Father, which we have just spoken about as being introduced into the service.
A.J.G. Yes, so that what we have grasped in our souls relative to the Father is to be enlarged, with more substance.
N.B.L. I would like to be helped with the place that the names of God of the Old Testament have in this subject, and whether an excessive emphasis on a few names and titles would prejudice the simple glory of the Father’s Name.
A.J.G. The names of God of the Old Testament do not reach the level of the full blessing of the Name that is characteristic of Christianity, that is to say the Father’s Name, and then, obviously, the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. So that in having them, we have everything in reality. In 2 Corinthians 6, the Father says, “and I will be to you for a Father, and ye shall be to me for sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty”. That is only used to confirm to us that the One who will be to us for Father is almighty, and that His omnipotence as well as His love and fidelity, are at the disposal of those who embark on the path that the scriptures indicate.
C.H. As for the passage of Mark 13, this is the position that the Lord takes; but we would not limit His Person to the position He takes.
A.J.G. He takes this position and, in that sense, He says that only the Father knows the day and hour.
A.L.O. His perfection in having taken this position is thus evident.
A.J.G. It seems rather to me that this accentuates the thought of His patience.
B.F.B. The Father is the Lord of heaven and earth; everything is under His control, including evil and the opposition. But are we not privileged to touch a sphere where there is nothing but what comes from the Father Himself?
C.H. I think the passage in the Acts would help us to consider the place of the Father in the sphere of testimony. We may have limited it to what is providential; but is everything not under His hand in the sphere of testimony as well?
A.J.G. “Times or seasons, which the Father has placed in his own authority”. We do not know how much longer the dispensation will be.
W.G.C. In Acts 17, the apostle says, “because he has set a day in which he is going judge the habitable earth in righteousness by the man whom he has appointed, giving the proof of it to all in having raised him from among the dead”, v 31.
A.J.G. Christ’s resurrection from among the dead marks Him as the Man destined to judge the earth in righteousness. The day is set by God; and the Man is appointed by Him.
C.H. Is not the order given from God?
A.J.G. Certainly; He will judge the earth.
W.J. Would that link with Matthew 16: 27? “For the Son of man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will render to each according to his doings”.
A.J.G. Yes. I think the verse in Matthew 25 to which we have alluded previously is more striking than we think. In the day of the glory of the King of the kings on the earth, He will say to the saved nations: “Come, blessed of my Father”, as if the final thought that was to remain on the disciples’ minds was not the glory of the King of kings, but the Father’s blessing.
E.C.M. Referring again to the passage in Acts, do you not think we could sometimes be troubled by this question of times and seasons, and that the knowledge of the Father would give us rest in the sphere of testimony?
A.J.G. I agree with that. We need to see the calm that marked the Lord Himself. “I praise thee, Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth”, he could say when cities where He had accomplished so many works of power, that had rejected Him.
CROYDON
29th May 1960
From ‘Paroles d’Édification Mutuelle’, April 1961
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