⬇ EPUB

ENTRANCE INTO THE TRUTH

W.D. One thought the Lord would give us some indication as to how we can help one another into the truth. In our time it is largely a matter of helping each other into the truth and in these passages the Lord would set out the spirit in which we can do so. They involve the most momentous teaching, in fact teaching which as to its scope and meaning could hardly be exceeded, the matter of the Lord's suffering, His death and rising again. There was inability on the part of the disciples to take in the import of the very profound teaching that the Lord gave, yet in His patience He brings out the features which will enable us to take on that teaching. The outstanding one which the Lord emphasises is the need to be marked by humility. I think that humility as we approach such profound matters as the Lord's own teaching as to His sufferings, His death and resurrection provides the avenue for the Spirit by. which the teaching can be extended and developed.

C.F.D. In the seventeenth chapter the Lord had just come down from the mount where the glory of His greatness and majesty was shining out and yet He takes this humble approach, calling Himself the Son of man. Do you think it would show, speaking reverently, the bent of the Lord's mind in taking His place as Son of man? In the way He refers to it here He does not even speak of raising Himself up but of being raised up. Does that fit with your thought?

W.D. Yes, it is momentous teaching, and coming in as it does in the assembly gospel, the assembly being the background to Matthew's teaching, it brings out that the Lord is working on an entirely different principle from that which is current in the world. So as we gather tomorrow (God willing) it is with a sense that we are not there in any spirit of human selfsufficiency but we are there in a spirit of humility. What comes out in the intervening incident with Peter as to the payment of the tribute money is an object lesson that, despite the fact that the sons were free, in all humility the Lord Jesus paid the tribute money.

J.A.P. When the people came up to David Amasai says "Thine are we, David... And peace be to thy helpers! For thy God helps thee", 1 Chron 12: 8. It was a kind of blessing on the occasion. Is that what you mean?

W.D. Yes. That scripture also brings out what the apostle exhorted the Galatian saints: "by love serve one another", Gal 5: 13. We are in days when the Spirit is emphasising the value of one another in the working out of the truth. The Spirit is saying to us, Have we the Spirit of Christ in love to serve one another? "In that hour the disciples came to Jesus saying, Who then is greatest in the kingdom of the heavens?" That was so contrary to the spirit in which He had indicated He was to suffer and die, yet the Lord in His grace does not rebuke them out sets before them the great principle of humility.

B.J. Do you think the contrast to their aspirations would be seen in that they abode in Galilee? Is that suggestive to us of the realm in which we should be abiding?

W.D. The Lord was on a journey and He was at Galilee at this particular juncture when He gave this teaching. Are you suggesting that it provides an environment in which the teaching can be taken on?

B.J. Yes. I think we have been well taught that the Galilee position is distinctive from our being in this world.

W.D. That is right. In the next scripture they were going up to Jerusalem which was an advance on this position. But it does seem - and I think the Lord would help us at this time to understand it - that divine things are so great and holy and come to us at such tremendous cost that in speaking of them and in our dealings with one another in the expounding of them, humility is what the Spirit of God would emphasise. I think that if we were together in a humble spirit there would be a restraint on everything that would hinder the free flow of the truth.

R.G.J. Do we get the spirit of what you are speaking of with Aquila and Priscilla in taking Apollos to them and instructing him in the way of God more exactly (see Acts 18: 26)?

W.D. Yes, by love they served him. That scripture in Galatians 5: 13 indicates that the service is that of a bondman. A bondman's service is a humble service. The Lord gives us much ministry, and to any exercised person it must be a real challenge as to the extent to which the ministry that the Lord gives is assimilated and practised. As thinking over it, one wonders whether the spirit the Lord indicates in these passages is sufficiently with us in a preparatory sense. Would you say that?

R.G.J. I am sure what you are saying is very helpful, and searching too. It is something that I have to take to myself, not only what is past but what is current, what the Spirit of God would bring in.

W.D. It says they were greatly grieved. Why should they be grieved? You could understand them being grieved at the prospect of His sufferings and His death, but why should they be grieved when He spoke of His resurrection? The fact that He said He was going to rise again, instead of grieving them should have promoted in their hearts a thrill of joy. As the Lord indicates in the passage in chapter 18, the receptive spirit of a child was not with them.

G.H. In Peter's first epistle he says "Likewise ye younger, be subject to the elder, and all of you bind on humility towards one another; for God sets himself against the proud, but to the humble gives grace", chap 5: 5. It does not say, put on humility but "bind on humility". Would that suggest that it is to stay wit h us all the time? And would "towards one another" suggest that the thing is workable?

W.D. That is interesting. We were saying elsewhere that much that Peter teaches in his two epistles is the fruit of an experience he had with the Lord as outlined in the gospels. It is my own impression t hat, when Peter said "bind on humility", his mind was going back to this incident when he saw the humble way in which the Lord met that situation when these ones approached Him (see Matt 17: 25-27).

H.H. You are setting before us the need for humility; that they were greatly grieved would show that they never took it on. We know that they did not take it on until after the resurrection. I am not naturally humble; how do I get it?

W.D. Scripture tells you; "Unless ye are converted".

H.H. So it is the work of God.

W.D. "Unless ye are converted": I think that is the point. I cannot see that the great things the Lord is unfolding can be taken on by us unless we are converted and that the humble spirit, the receptive spirit of a little child, marks us. Conversion means that you have come to a realisation that the man of the first order cannot take in divine things, and you have to approach them in the humble spirit of a little child.

T.E.D. So did Paul always move in the line of his conversion? The Lord said "I will shew to him how much he must suffer for my name", Acts 9: 16. Would that be the experience needed with us in view of being available to one another?

W.D. The great matters which are involved in the teaching of the assembly require the activity of the Spirit amongst the brethren in a right state. As to the light of the assembly, the brethren are very well versed in it. What you come back to is this, that the arriving at it is in the degree in which the Spirit is free amongst us.

R.N H. Would you say that we will not be very receptive as we are together if we do not esteem the brethren greater than ourselves?

W.D. That is what comes out in the passage in chapter 20.

C.F.D. What you are emphasising as to being converted is I think an area where we need a lot of help. Is a moral process a necessity in order to arrive at this little child condition?

W.D. Think of how profitable every occasion would be if we all came together as persons who had been converted and had our minds disabused of any thought as to who should be the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens!

H.H. In Corinthians it says "and some unbeliever or simple person come in", 1 Cor 14: 24. We all want the simplicity of heart that is found in a little child so that persons can own that "Go: I is indeed amongst you". Unless we have that spirit we will never arrive at that.

W.D. What we need in our meetings now is power. There is no lack of knowledge amongst the brethren; you can go anywhere and sit down with the brethren and have an intelligent and instructive reading on the truth of the assembly. But the need amongst the brethren today is power, and power comes not from an exhibition of the man who was ended on the cross of Christ but from the expression of the spirit that the Lord set out in this chapter.

H.H. So it would require dependence. It behoves every one of us to be asking for that power; the need for that power is seen everywhere.

H.J.G. In Galatians Paul speaks of "biting and devouring one another" (see Gal 5: 15), but in chapter 6 Paul brings in the antidote: "ye who are spiritual restore such a one" (v 1); that is, there should be that ability. But then he adds "considering yourselves”. Do you think that fits in?

W.D. Yes. It seems that in Galatians 6 they had reached something. What is a spiritual person? I think a spiritual person is one who has absorbed the lesson of these chapters that we have read from; he has a true estimate of himself and he has a true estimate of God's thoughts for His people.

R.G.J. Would the basis of it all be love? "By love serve one another", Gal 5: 13. Then the Lord indicates that to Peter at the end of John. So he is successful in his ministry inasmuch as the saints had returned "to the shepherd and overseer of your souls", 1 Pet 2: 25.

W.D. I think so. So our gatherings should give us wonderful opportunities by love to serve one another. You have to do it in the Spirit, and do you not think it would give us to weigh everything one might seek to introduce into a meeting? You would say, Is it going to serve the brethren? Is it going to help them? Is the Spirit going to be with us so that there will be expansion in the greatness of divine thoughts?

G.D.P. I think what you say as to helping one another in this spirit is very salient. We often quote the scripture, "Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit", Zech 4: 6. That is not setting aside what you said about power, but it is the real moral power, is it not?

W.D. Yes. It says "And Jesus having called a little child to him, set it in their midst". Now I do not think that that was the only little child present.

G.D.P. Do you think the captive maid in Syria set this out in some sense?

W.D. Yes, that is helpful. What it brings out, I think, is that there is something in the circle of the saints normally that expresses the truth as it is in the Scriptures. If you only look to the Scriptures for the truth (of course one must be guarded in saying that, as the Scriptures are the truth and the Spirit is the truth) - but in every local company as the result of the Lord's operations there is that which is representative of what is in the Scriptures, and this little child is the expression of it. Do you think so?

G.D.P. Yes, very good. The gospel begins with "the little child", that is Jesus, and now there is "a little child", one like Him.

W.D. And He set it in their midst; it was for the observation of all. The Lord gives us more lessons in spirituality by example amongst us than sometimes He gives by ministry.

J.A.P. I think your suggestion is very helpful that there is something among the brethren answering to the little child. Even in Galatians that has been referred to, "ye who are spiritual"; there were some there. That is all encouraging, is it not?

W.D. Yes. It could be a sister, could it not?

J.A.P. That is very good. We are reading Luke and we noticed that Anna was used.

W.D. Why I say that it could be a sister is that I am thinking of the sister not only in a physical sense but as the subjective thought, and what we would labour for is the subjective result.

J.P.H. The scope for the exercise of what you are saying is very large and I wondered if you would just bring in a word as to the sisters in that connection. I suppose Phoebe would be an outstanding example of one who was a helper of many. It brings out a point that is needed very much amongst us at the present time, that help is not just one way; it says "assist her", Rom 16: 2. She had been a helper of many but "assist her"; so help is a two way matter, is it not?

W.D. That is good. If you link that with what was called attention to as to the service of Aquila and Priscilla your mind immediately goes to Ephesians where it speaks about "joint of supply", chap 4: 16. The force of "joint of supply" is not a gift. A joint of supply in a local company involves the sisters, as you say, and it is operating amongst the brethren.

C.W.F. The importance of this is emphasised by the fact that Jesus prefaced what He said by "Verily I say to you". In the previous incident there had been a lack of power, they were unable to cast out the demon. The Lord says, It is because of your unbelief; "But this kind does not go out but by prayer and fasting" (v 21). Would prayer and fasting help us to come to this state which you are speaking of?

W.D. I think so. Perhaps there is not enough fasting with us. There may be abundant prayer but how would you fast?

J.A.P. I need help on it; it is wider than just food. But you have something in mind.

W.D. I want help, I want the joint of supply.

R.N.H. In the things of God does fasting involve receiving something from God? It is connected with prayer, involving that you are totally dependent on the answer coming from heaven; it is not from ourselves.

W.D. The first thing is that not only do we pray for the Spirit's help in a meeting but fasting is the exercise that no darkening influence is going to affect your judgment or appreciation of what the Lord is giving. That is how I see it, that fasting brings you to the judgment of any influence that might be darkening your mind. We need to fast so that every darkening influence, natural or otherwise, is out of our minds and there is a state of absolute transparency leaving the Spirit free to bring out things.

H.J.G. I was thinking of what the Lord says in Matthew 6 about praying "to thy Father who is in secret" (v 18). It means that there is nothing to interfere with the communication.

C.F.D. Would you help us a little more as to the form fasting takes.

W.D. I think it means, as I have said, the judgment and removal of every darkening influence. Prejudice could be an example; the effect of natural ties could be another instance of it. It may be that the mind is being conditioned by a certain line of ministry and is not free for the current flow that the Spirit is giving. You will not get the gain of divine instruction unless you fast - not only prayer but fasting and seeking the Lord's help that there may be no darkening influence in your mind in your approach to the truth.

C.F.D. The spirit of a little child would represent that, do you think? It is receptive, it is without guile, it is unaffected by things around as we might be, it comes into a line of just simple transparency in which it would be very receptive. Therefore the Lord says "Unless ye are converted and become as little children.

W.D. "Whoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens": that is not easy to come by. Think of the Lord's estimate as to what greatness is! It brings out that in the assembly we have to do with moral things and with moral values and it is moral weight, moral power, that counts in the assembly.

J.P.H. Is one outstanding feature of fasting that it brings matters into perspective? How out of perspective some things become, even viewing men as trees walking, but fasting would bring the divine shining in to give us a true perspective of everything in the sight of God.

W.D. Yes, and it would enable you to come to a judgment of things. The moral process has to be gone through, as you come to a meeting, if you want to get the benefit of the Lord's instruction. You have to get your mind clear from any influence that would hinder.

G.H. With regard to fasting, in Acts 13 it says "Now there were in Antioch, in the assembly which was there, prophets and teachers... And as they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, Separate me now Barnabas and Saul" (vv 1, 2). Could you open up this matter of ministering to the Lord and fasting?

W.D. I gather it was a priestly service. That scripture is helpful. It just brings out what we were saying, that they were free in that local assembly by the Spirit's help from every darkening influence. For example, there could have been colour prejudice - I only say that going by the detail of the scripture - there could have been a social prejudice, there were persons of high distinction and persons of low degree there. All these things were present in the gathering at Antioch. But in virtue of the fact that they fasted, every darkening influence in that locality was judged, leaving them free for the Spirit's indication as to these men.

T.E.D. Is fasting in principle death? I put to death the deeds of the body in view of life (see Rom 8: 13).

W.D. That is right; and it involves the whole man, your mind particularly according to Romans 7. Many things would become clear to us if our minds and thoughts were constantly under the direction of the Spirit in this way and free from darkening influences. Paul said, Ye are light in the Lord (see Eph 5: 8) and I think that meant that in that locality there was no darkness. The crown of the apostle's ministry as to the mystery as it came out in Ephesus was due to the fact that they were light in the Lord; in other words, there was no darkening influence present to hinder that ministry. So it is very instructive in Acts 20 that when he calls over the elders of Ephesus to Miletus what he draws attention to is the humility with which he ministered amongst them. The structure that Paul built in Ephesus was not built by the intellect of man naturally; it was built because in lowliness and humility Paul served in the spirit of a little child.

B.J. So what we are speaking about makes the right background for being bondmen as in chapter 20.

W.D. Yes, I think that is what it leads on to; chapter 20 is very instructive in that way. The Lord is going up to Jerusalem, the language is pretty much the same, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee, with her sons, comes to ask something of Him. In the first scripture they were striving as to who was the greatest, but here it is the mother. They apparently never thought about Peter. It shows the need for prayer and fasting. The Lord says "First, Simon who is called Peter, Matt 10: 2.

J.A.P. I was at a meal with Mr Taylor and some other brethren and a current exercise was discussed at the table; most present were in agreement with the general thought, and Mr Taylor said to them, Be careful we are not a party. That is, he was fasting; that was priestly, was it not?

W.D. That was priestly. Well, do you see two parties in this chapter? There are three and ten. There is a party with three persons in it, a mother and two sons, and then there is another one, the ten.

J.A.P. They were no better than the three in that sense, do you mean?

W.D. That is right. That is why the Lord brings in the instruction. They were not indignant about the mother but they were indignant about the two brothers. They had not arrived at the lesson the Lord taught them in chapter 18 about the little child. If they had absorbed that teaching they would not have been indignant but would have left the matter with the Lord. There is not enough, brethren, of leaving matters with the Lord.

J.A.P. What do you mean by leaving matters with the Lord? Is it a question of the disposition of His servants?

W.D. Yes, exactly. These are matters of divine disposition; it does not matter how you feel about them, the Lord will order them. You might say there is a maladministration or a failure somewhere. The will of the Lord orders in all these matters.

C.F.D. Therefore as we look at things in the sphere in which divine Persons are operating, the Lord has never given up control; the Father has committed everything into His hands and that has never been rescinded. He is in charge and the Lord is doing things and it is His assembly.

W.D. The incidents in these two chapters, if observed and understood, would give us a spirit of tranquillity. In our circumstances we recognise the divine wisdom and the divine hand in everything. In that way having the spirit of a little child and the spirit of bondmanship we reap the fullest spiritual wealth out of that circumstance.

J.A.P. Joseph's comment about God's ways with him was "Fear not: am I then in the place of God? Ye indeed meant evil against me: God meant it for good, in order that he might do as it is this day, to save a great people alive", Gen 50: 19,20.

W.D. Is that not wonderful? The Lord seems to indicate that a spirit like this is true great ness. He says "Ye know that the rulers of the nations exercise lordship over them, and the great exercise authority over them. It shall not be thus amongst you, but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your servant; and whosoever will be first among you, let him be your bondman; as indeed the Son of man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many". Now it is not often that the Lord speaks of the extent of His sacrificial work like that passage. And He adds "and to give his life a ransom for many". What it brings out is that the Lord brought home to His disciples that in bondmanship you have to have very extended thoughts in your mind. We are perhaps too limited as to the value of the light we hold. In the spirit of bondmanship that the Lord teaches do we hold things in the way He says 'many'? We are responsible in regard to the whole sphere of the Lord's interests in every place and should seek to help each other in that spirit.

T.E.D. Does John show the gain of that in his epistle when he says of the Lord: "he has laid down his life for us; and we ought for the brethren to lay down our lives", 1 John 3: 16?

W.D. Yes; laying down our lives is a continuous thing.

PLAINFIELD

21 May 1981

Key to initials

C.F.D. C.F.Dadd, Plainfield; T.E.D. T.E.Druckenmiller, Plainfield; W.D. W.Dickson, Edinburgh; C.W.F. C.W.Frost, Redbridge; H.J.G. H.J.Glass, Toronto; G.H. G.Hesterman, Plainfield; H.H. H.Holt, Council Bluffs; J.P.H. J.P.Hedges, Grimsby; R.N.H. R.N.Hesterman, Plainfield; B.J. B.Jensen, Los Angeles; R.G.J. R.G.Johnson, Woodstock; G.D.P. G.D.Pfingst, Plainfield; J.A.P. J.A.Petersen, Plainfield

← Previous 3 of 4 Next →