THE ATTITUDE OF FORGIVENESS
A.A.B. I thought we might speak together and seek the Lord's help as to the remission of sins, not exactly the view of eternal remission, but how the remission of sins operates among the saints. It is evident from the verses in John that it was the Lord's intention that remission should become an active part of our functioning. It marks the dispensation in a peculiar way, for we would be reminded of the Lord's words on the cross, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23: 34); it is characteristic of the dispensation. I think we have habitually stressed the connection between repentance and forgiveness, which is a needful connection, forgiveness as we say based on repentance; that is not in any sense to be diminished in its importance. But I believe we would find, if we look carefully, that forgiveness is referred to many times apart from repentance. There is forgiveness with God that He may be feared. Then in Philemon I think we have a beautiful picture of the operation of forgiveness. No doubt it is by way of exhortation, but the full standard of it is to be seen in this letter, the tone and spirit of which is unique. We are to try the spirits, John says, whether they are of God. It is a constant exercise in regard of living persons that we should do that and form a judgment accordingly, but it is a good thing too, so to speak, to try the spirits of those who have written the Scriptures, to try the spirit of Paul in this remarkable epistle and see the magnanimity of his attitude and how he would have it working out not only in the household to whom he wrote but in the local assembly.
S.D.K.R. Would what you have said, referring to the Lord's words when he was crucified, be seen in the end of Ephesians 4? It says, "be to one a compassionate, forgiving one another, so as – in Christ has forgiven you" (v.32).
A.A B. It does not speak of repentance, does it? I am not diminishing or weakening at all the place which repentance has; "if he should repent, the Lord said, "forgive him", Luke 17: 3. But what was upon my spirit is that we should seek to get an impression, or rather seek to extend the importance which lies in the heart, I am sure, of the brethren as to this blessed matter. The passage you refer to gives us the divine standard of forgiveness – as God has forgiven you for Christ's sake. Now that is taken up in principle again and again in Paul's writings; in 2 Corinthians when he comes to speak of forgiveness, he says "if I have forgiven anything, it is for your sakes in the person of Christ", chap 2:10. What a thing that is! If only we could get into the current of that in our relations together. Another thing is that forgiveness is always absolute; would you say that?
S.D.K.R. We would like you to make that clearer.
A.A.B. Well, not long ago we heard of two per cent or three per cent repentance, but you could never speak of three per cent forgiveness: "her many sins are forgiven" (Luke 7: 47) – it is final, absolute clearance. That never comes up again: "their sins and their lawlessness’s I will never remember a remember any more", Heb 10: 17.
R.T. Would the administration of forgiveness depend on repentance, but would it be our attitude all the time?
A.A.B. That is right, the attitude, that is what one has very much in mind. There is forgiveness with God that He may be feared, but the attitude is there.
R.T. Ministry some years ago referred to the net being mended; would that be what you are saying about forgiveness being absolute?
A.A B. I think so. We all know how things tend to recur, and how there is a tendency with us in our frailty to carry things forward. The point of what is in mind, especially when we come to the epistle, is that the thing is cleared, and we go on. It is an administrative matter; we do not want to be frightened of that word, it is a right word, it is a scriptural word. Another equivalent is dispensation, and forgiveness is dispensed.
S.D.K.R. I have noticed that in Luke it says "if thy brother should sin, rebuke him; and if he should repent, forgive him", chap.17: 3. In Matthew it says "until seventy times seven", chap 18: 22. It does not actually mention 'repent' in that second Scripture. I wondered if that would apply if it is a personal matter.
A.A.B. I think so, the attitude is there, it is the starting point. We want to start rightly.
D.E.R. Is there a distinction between matters affecting the truth or the testimony, and personal trespass? With the first it may even need to go to the assembly but in all cases our attitude is to be one of forgiveness.
A.A.B. I do not think there is any exception to the attitude; it is always there, it is characteristic of the dispensation, and the standard is before us God for Christ's sake has forgiven you. He has done it for Christ's sake.
E.J.J. To refer again to Matthew 18, Peter says Lord "How often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Until seven times?" but Jesus said to him "I say not to thee until seven times, but seventy times seven" v.22. Would that have a bearing on what you have in mind?
A.A.B. Yes, certainly it does, that is like Paul’s account. We are to have resources in that sense. We are not to behave like bankrupts; the saints are wealthy. If we only knew what there is to be drawn upon in the Spirit! It is in the spirit in which things are done that such importance lies. "Receive the Holy Spirit", the Lord says.
G.W.B. We have all been impressed often with the apparent speed with which Peter took up the lead after the Lord had suffered; he must have found in the Lord the spirit of forgiveness.
A.A.B. That bears out what we are saying and of course connects our thoughts with the record in John 21 where there had been divergence by leaders; but the spirit of forgiveness in Christ – although we have not the word – is there. The Lord is not referring to the fruitless fishing expedition. Peter consequent upon that would, I am sure, have the sense of the absoluteness of discharge from any liability, and he served in the Acts in the power of it.
G.W.E. I was thinking of that scripture as Mr Brown referred to it; it says "Repent, and be baptised", and then "for remission of sins", Acts 2: 38. It was so with Peter and now he is setting it out, and doing so for us too.
A.A.B. Yes, that is important, to keep the connection between repentance and forgiveness. We have that in the end of Luke's gospel in the commission, that repentance and remission of sins should be preached. I would not think for a moment of diminishing the importance of repentance, but it is the attitude of forgiveness, the spirit of the thing, if it could be strengthened amongst us. I am not saying it is not there, but if the flow of it could be increased.
R.T. The best robe, the ring and the sandals were there long before the younger son came back to enjoy them. They were there all the time in view of his wearing them. Would that not be our attitude towards the brethren that we miss, that we are holding something that really is theirs and are waiting on them coming into the joy of it?
A.A.B. Indeed! In our links together, we often have to do with one another as sinners, if you follow what I mean. All often offend, none of us is exempt from that, but the Spirit breathed into them – the spirit of the risen Man, the spirit of Christ – is how the matter is to be dealt with.
W.S. The detail of chapter 21 of John shows first how the Lord has resources which would warm and set at ease those whom He was going to serve, and then the skill with which He touches their affections. I was thinking of the wealth you were speaking of with the saints; in that chapter there are peculiar resources with the Lord which would have conveyed something to those persons who were served in that way.
A.A.B. It is beautiful to see the preparation that had gone on before the recovery, and it is that that we need to be in accord.
D.E.R. Matthew 18 ends very beautifully about forgiving from your hearts, not just in a formal way or begrudgingly but from your hearts.
A.A.B. Yes, and it is in that way that forgiveness is dispensed amongst us. We know what it has been to have an assembly meeting to forgive a brother; as may be necessary, but I am not thinking of that side but of the spirit of the thing in our relations with one another. There is no formality in love, and forgiveness is a function of love. "Love amongst yourselves" (John 13: 35) involves the spirit of forgiveness all the time.
G.W.E. In John 20 we have teaching regarding remission coming first.
A.A.B. Yes; does that not support what has been said as to our attitude? There is perfect balance in regard of divine teaching in these matters: in Matthew it is binding and loosening, in John it is remission and retaining. The character of John's ministry is directed towards moral and spiritual state amongst us.
J.H. Luke 15 has been referred to; the father there tells the bondmen to "Bring out the best robe and clothe him in it, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet" (v.22); he did not do it himself. Would you say something about how that works out?
A.A.B. I think the bondmen show the element of what is sympathetic with the father in the intelligence and knowledge and appreciation of his attitude to the son received; it is a question there of reception. How do we receive one another? We are to "receive... one another, according as the Christ also has received you to the glory of God", Rom 15 7.
W.T.A. How would you say that forgiveness is ministered, as we get in Colossians; "if any have a complaint against any; even as the Christ has forgiven you, so also do ye", chap 3: 13?
A.A.B. It is all part of this great matter and how it is to be worked out amongst us, not held as doctrine merely but the thing expressed. Colossians and the epistle to Philemon are coincident; the two writings went into the locality at the same time. I suppose Onesimus took his letter of commendation, and Epaphras carried the letter of Paul to the Colossians. So you can see what was in the mind of the Spirit in Paul at this juncture in his ministry; the doctrinal side is in Colossians but the spirit of it is in Philemon. Paul exudes the spirit of forgiveness.
R.T. Is there something distinct in your mind as to the connection between the inbreathing and the remitting of sins?
A.A.B. Well, it requires that the spirit in which remitting is done should accord with the inbreathing. Breathing out threatenings and slaughter (see Acts 9: 1) was another thing, but we partake of another spirit. Those disciples, John and James, would have brought down fire from heaven upon people who would not receive the Lord, but the Lord just says "Ye know not of what spirit ye are", Luke 9: 55. That, I understand, was not to imply that they were of any wicked spirit but they belonged to another order, the kind of spirit that would later mark the saints as having been breathed into.
R.T. It is in view of producing character, is it not? The breathing into them is that they may have the character of this Man who is ascending.
A.A.B. That is so important. We all tend to be formal; most of us belong to a nation which makes a great deal of formality, but we need to be more immersed in the informality which is involved in the spirit of forgiveness.
G.W.B. Have you anything to say as to the depth of repentance required?
A.A.B. I think that is a matter that has to be taken up by each one of us on our own side; depth of repentance rightly increases, does it not? Is that our experience as you have grown up in the school of God? In what you have come through in your history with God would you say that in measure there is some increase in repentance?
G.W.B. Yes certainly.
A.A.B. It should always be so with us. If one speaks for oneself, it has been too slow. But "Who can count the dust of Jacob...?" (Num 23: 10); I think there is some allusion to repentance there. "I... repent in dust and ashes", Job 42: 6. Another feature of the epistle to Philemon which I had not noticed until fairly recently is that, whilst it has a distinctly private and personal character, it is also addressed to the assembly; "the assembly which is in thine house", which I think is to convey to us that the truth we are speaking about is to work out in a practical sense in the local assembly.
S.H. It must be so. In 2 Corinthians grief works repentance (see chap 7: 10). That was in each one of them, was it not?
A.A.B. Well, it was evidently in the body of the saints, and grief works repentance, not the grief of the world but grief according to God. We have recourse to the cross in our relations with God, and to what was enacted in the sufferings of Christ, culminating in the forsaking; these are things which promote and deepen repentance.
S.H. So it was Christ crucified that the apostle brought before them in the first epistle.
A.A.B. Exactly, because that was to meet the public side of things.
R.T. Was Paul really appealing to the work of God in Philemon? That is something that would help us in this forgiving attitude, if we were conscious of the work of God in one and another.
A.A.B. And that outweighs every disadvantage. The circumstances were very acute; this bondman Onesimus had misbehaved, he had apparently sinned against his master, probably purloined his goods and run away. There was everything to aggravate the feelings of Philemon but, as you say, Paul appeals to God's work in him in this beautiful spirit. He addresses him as brother and then speaks of himself as a partner with him; that is the family of God and the fellowship. Then he refers three times to the bowels of the saints and to his bowels. He refers to the delinquent slave as "my bowels". All this comes into the spirit of forgiveness.
E.J.J. The chief of sinners is writing this epistle. He had a great depth in his soul as to what he had been forgiven, so he can write in this way and appeal to the work of God in this man, can he not?
A.A.B. I think so. There is great personality, spiritual personality, seen here, primarily in Paul but also in Philemon.
J.M.W. Do you think that relationships amongst brethren would be improved greatly by this proceeding normally? It is not just that you forgive someone and are forgiven by someone and that is that, but that should provide a quality of relationship between the persons that was not there before.
A.A.B. I think Paul's reference to his bowels, and the bowels of the saints, is a reference to what is organic; I think the brethren understand that word. There are self-acting organs in the body. It is the self-acting side that needs to be strengthened amongst us.
M.C.E. Philemon would hear the epistle to the Colossians, would he not? In it, it says "with Onesimus, the faithful and beloved brother, who is one of you", chap 4: 9. That would touch him, would it not?
A.A.B. Yes, "one of you". He was not that when he went away, it seems. Paul had begotten him in his bonds. We do not know the details, but God was over all that and Onesimus had become serviceable to Paul in prison and he longed to keep him that he might minister to him in the bonds of the glad tidings, but then he recognizes what is due to his master. We have not the word 'righteousness' in this epistle, but we have the thing.
R.T. Do you think that the attitude of forgiveness being in display would promote repentance rather than having to work it the other way around?
A.A.B. Yes, and it is the promotional side that can only be provided in this way. We may search the text books, the ministry, for what to do in certain circumstances, but, brethren, if the truth were known better by us, we would not need to do that, we would know what to do and do it; and so we would proceed on together and there would be great gain. The trespass offering is interwoven in the epistle to Philemon. It is not just a receipt – a bill rendered, and a receipt given – but the fifth part is added, and the position is stronger than it was before.
J.S. Do you think that Joseph and his constant burning towards his brethren would exemplify something of this? He was much more in the gain of forgiveness than they were really.
A.A.B. A good example; his bowels burned for his brother Benjamin. That is what needs to be more active with us, the burning. "Was not our heart burning in us...?", Luke 24: 32. We are so slow to react to grace, if I may speak for myself (perhaps I should only do that), but it promotes repentance.
R.H.B. The apostle had had to do with Onesimus, as well as in this letter to Philemon, because he speaks of having begotten him in his bonds. The fact that he wrote a letter about it shows how important this matter is, that relationships should be established and that nothing should be allowed to break in upon them.
A.A.B. That is very important; and he does not write the letter as an apostle; he was an apostle and could have required, as having divinely-given authority, that this should be done, but he does not; he says "I entreat". We want more entreaty. How a man of such authority as Paul rightly had delegated to him, can relinquish for a moment that side and appeal! "I beseech you brethren", he says; that was a large part of his ministry.
G.W.B. The something more is profit, is it not?
A.A.B. Profit, yes; I think that is the allusion to the fifth part being added, that we do not just go through an exercise and, to use a simple illustration, change two sixpences for a shilling; there is profit. The meaning of Onesimus's name is profit.
H.M. So was he more profitable as a brother than as a bondman? I take it this would result in his bondmanship ceasing and he would be in the locality as one who contributed to everything.
A.A.B. He would be in the assembly not as a bondman but as a beloved brother; possibly he would fulfil his duties as a bondman as he had never done before; there is what is altogether above that level. The literal side is slavery, a principle of long history in the human race, but never to be allowed into the assembly, that the saints should be held in bondage.
G.W.E. How do you regard verse 15 then: "that thou mightest possess him fully for ever".?
A.A.B. That is very interesting and shows the nature of the bonds by which we are bound to one another. Take the choicest relationship in nature, husband and wife, it is not forever, it is part of the provisional side but what we touch in the assembly as brethren and as of the body of Christ and as of the family of God is for ever, it will never cease.
G.W.E. There is such quality here, is there not? And this is what the apostle would desire for this slave, but then we need to know something of this quality working out.
A.A.B. That is right; the highest truth is to be brought to bear practically upon the details of life.
D.E.R. Is this right attitude of mind among the saints prompted by remembering that they are persons who have been anointed, that however much any of us might slip from that high level, the saints are still persons worthy of respect. We see that very much in David's attitude towards Saul.
A.A.B. Yes, respect for the anointing is a very important thing to keep in mind. It may involve that we regard a person, a brother or a sister, abstractly. What springs so quickly into our minds is that where there is a defect we become wholly occupied with the defect. We need to look at God's work more, see its beauty, see how it can be wrought upon. So he says "receive him". How do we receive one another? Do we say, “If you like you can come, but would you mind coming to the back door and not the front door”.
R.T. He says "receive him as me".
A.A.B. There again you have a certain standard. If Paul came to Barnet you would see to it that he was rightly received, would you not? but if a lesser person came, supposing one who had a history like Onesimus, could we receive him as we would receive Paul? "Receive him as me"; "receive him, that is, my bowels".
F.P.A.S. Were we all in the gain of the word, "I forgave thee all that debt" (Matt 18: 32), we could not hold anything against another, could we? It would promote the atmosphere that Mr Taylor was referring to earlier.
A.A B. Yes, I think we have the example of Paul to help us on that line. He takes the place of being the first of sinners and of having received mercy and that the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant with faith and love; he conveys in those words that Jesus made no demands on him. What a conversion that was and he never dropped below the level of it!
W.T.A. These individual circumstances we may be helped in, but when it comes to seventy times seven, what are we going to do about that?
A.A B. Be sure that your account is healthy. Paul had an account; he says no matter how much it is, you put it on my account; seventy times seven. What is the state of my account? Of course, with highly honoured persons there is very little difficulty; the test comes when you are dealing with a sinner. How do we deal with one another as sinners? How has God dealt with us as sinners? It should not be any different.
F.P.A.S. In that address by Mr Taylor on 'The conversion of a Sinner' (see Vol 13 p410) he says that converters were very few.
A.A B. We would have to admit that.
F.P.A.S. Love covers a multitude of sins.
A.A.B. This is a range of things that one feels is of such great importance because it does not lie in the sphere of appearance, it is not on the surface. This meeting today and what is to follow, if the Lord will, involves ministry, and we can all see and hear what is going on, but what is going on underneath?
J.M.W. I do not want to divert, but could you say a word to distinguish for us the matter of plenary forgiveness from what you are speaking about in the meeting generally.
A.A.B. Plenary forgiveness; tell us what that word means.
J.M.W. I understand that plenary forgiveness is in God's prerogative alone; "there is forgiveness with thee", Ps 130: 4. The saints have not the prerogative to forgive in a plenary way, but the administration of that forgiveness is largely committed to the saints, is it not?
A.A.B. Now you have answered your own question better than I could have done; it is the distinction between what is initial and what is final and eternal in its character – plenary forgiveness and administrative forgiveness. We might say, we do not need this just at the moment, we are going on very happily in our locality and we are not conscious that there is anything outstanding. But you may need it, you may need it very quickly and very suddenly, and is the attitude there?
J.M.W. I wondered whether that might bear on the remark made in the early part of the reading as to matters of the truth or what is public; the question would be in the minds of the saints as to whether we understand that God has forgiven that. If God has acted in His own prerogative we cannot but submit to that and happily flow into what you are saying.
A.A.B. What you are saying is helpful because we all have a certain range of knowledge of the truth and we know what is right in that sense, but there is another range of things in which we are to be imitators of God as dear children; do we know that sphere of things as well? That is the test, whether any one of us at any time is able to express the attitude of God toward another.
D.E.R. Is the way Paul is moving here calculated to settle matters, not that they are smoothed over and rumblings proceed below the surface thereafter, but rather that matters should be finalised and settled for good?
A.A.B. Yes; the true effect of forgiveness is that the thing is not remembered any more, it is eliminated and we go on in relation to the great thoughts of God in the truth, the purposes of God. Luke 15 sets all that out for us so beautifully in the setting of the gospel.
G.C.B. Is what happened to Benjamin at the end of Judges a warning to us? It was, you might say, the loss of a locality. The brethren came to it that they had gone too far.
A.A.B. Yes, and if you read those chapters you find how repentance worked out, as it did also in the brethren of Joseph. Repentance had to be worked out in them; at one point they said "We are indeed guilty concerning our brother, whose anguish of soul we saw", Gen 42: 21. What a point that is to come to, if you are in that position!
J.S. Onesimus became a brother to Paul both in the flesh and in the Lord. Does the working out of this whole bearing of forgiveness toward one another very often involve something practical?
A.A.B. There is nothing more practical than love, and it is very remarkable that Paul uses this language; "a beloved brother, specially to me, how much rather to thee, both in the flesh" – that is in the condition in which we all are at this time – "and in the Lord".
G.W.E. Mr Coates said that he might have looked after the horses (see Outline of Hebrews etc., p.338). He was useful to him in the flesh; that was his ordinary occupation.
A.A.B. Yes. The reference to 'in Lord' is a reference to the Lord's rights; He has rights in all these matters and in regard of each one of us.
R.H.B. Lower down Paul says that he was coming as well; not only was Philemon to receive Onesimus but he was to receive Paul: "prepare me also a lodging". The note says 'prepare hospitality for me'; that is, 'to receive me as a guest'.
A.A.B. Yes, what do you make of that?
R.H.B. He seems to make a good deal in the epistle of this matter of reception that you are speaking about. I was thinking of his own reception in Damascus where he was received as a brother. With all his past he was received there as a brother, and it seems to be what is brotherly that he is emphasising.
A.A.B. Which is connected with the truth of the family of God, so that even if one sins against you, you must never forget that he is your brother, according to Matthew: "if thy brother sin against thee", chap. 18:15. But I think it is very beautiful, as you point out, to see how Paul is quite confident that there will be no difficulty about his being received: "prepare me also a lodging"; no one would surely question his coming. He says earlier, "receive him" and "receive him as me". I just thought that the spirit of these things might help us to get into the presence of God about it, to seek the help that He will give us, and there will be a great result in the sense of profit.
BARNET
27 January 1979
Key to initials
W.T.Abbott, London; A.A.Bellamy, Buckhurst Hill; G.C.Bywater, Buckhurst Hill; G.W.Brown, Barnet; R.H.Brown Barnet; G.W.Easton, Redbridge; M.C.Easton, Redbridge; J.Harvey. Barnet; S.Hawkins, Richmond; E.J.Judd, Barnet; H.Meek, Sunbury; D.E.Remmington, St.Albans; S.D.K.Roberts; Croydon; F.P.A.Stocks, London; J.Surtees, Buckhurst Hill; W.Shephard, Bedford; R.Taylor, Barnet; J.M.Wallach, London.