THE ENERGY AND POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THIS DISPENSATION

Genesis 1: 2, 3; John 4: 10–14; Acts 2: 1–13; 1 Corinthians 2: 6–11

RG I wondered if we could help one another in relation to the wonder of the dispensation identified by the energy and power of the Holy Spirit. I think it would be true to say that the true hallmarks of this dispensation are that there is a Man in heaven and the Spirit of God is on earth indwelling believers. In the old dispensation the Spirit acted and came upon persons but in this dispensation we have the experience and joy and liberty of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, dwelling with us and in us with a view to us being helped to understand all that God has in His mind for His people. In Genesis 1 we find the Spirit referred to as hovering over the face of the waters. It is as if to suggest to us that there was pent up energy but not yet released. It is very affecting to think of divine Persons looking upon a scene where the darkness was on the face of the deep, nothing responsive in any sense, the earth waste and empty, “and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters”. I think it infers the feelings that were there with the Spirit of God. In verse 1 it says, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”, then some catastrophe occurred causing chaos. It is interesting that it does not seem to have caused any chaos in the heavens but it certainly caused chaos down here. Out of that chaos God was going to work. The Spirit of God could not use the energy that He had, if we could so speak, in the way that He would like, but He hovered over the face of the waters. Then it says, “And God said, Let there be light. And there was light”. It has been said that God never works in darkness, and neither He does; He works in the light.

In John 4 we see how the energy of the Spirit is going to be released in an individual, “a fountain of water, springing up into eternal life”. The hovering had taken place in chapter 3. You see the way that the Spirit is quietly looking on, considering what there was in Nicodemus. The Lord introduces the thought of being born anew, being born of water and of Spirit and then born of the Spirit. Then in chapter 4 He brings in light. Where was the light coming from, dear brethren? The light was coming from heaven in a Man, in Christ, speaking to this woman of the greatest things. Here is the energy of the Spirit seen in the Lord Jesus drawing near to a woman—such a woman with such a history. She comes out at a time of day when no one else would come out, and she finds a Man who is prepared to speak to her. If I might appeal to the young people, the Lord is prepared to speak to you, and speak to you in such a way that He might arrest you, so that you might be prepared to speak to Him, and in speaking to Him find that He is a prophet, “I see that thou art a prophet” (John 4: 19). That was the turning point. He says, “Every one who drinks of this water shall thirst again; but whosoever drinks of the water which I shall give him shall never thirst for ever, but the water which I shall give him shall become in him a fountain of water, springing up into eternal life”. This is the first of the great spiritual blessings, eternal life. Here is a woman who had an earthen pot; it says she “left her water-pot” (John 4: 28). She had relied on every other kind of thing until now to give her the energy that was needed for the day in conditions where there was no joy, no happiness, no relationship. The Lord introduces her now to Himself and to the Spirit of God, and she can now come into an area of eternal life, an area of spiritual relationships.

In the beginning of the Acts we move from the individual to the collective position. Here is a company of persons that had been in communion with the Lord on the other side of death for forty days and how much they had learned. It was a time of spiritual education of a special kind, and then they see Him taken up. Hymn 350 expresses it well,

‘Received in glory bright up there,

The Father’s greetings, honours rare,

Are heaped upon His Son’s blest brow;

He is the mighty Victor now’.

God has given Him every honour. From there comes the answer in the person of the Spirit of God. It says, “And when the day of Pentecost was now accomplishing, they were all together in one place. And there came suddenly a sound out of heaven as of a violent impetuous blowing,” (what energy) “and filled all the house where they were sitting”. This is the only time that this occurred but something of the features of this time should be perpetuated in our localities life, energy and power. It is universal in its character, all spoke with different tongues. The power is for the universality of the assembly. How wonderful to have the energy and power of a divine Person in this wondrous way.

In 1 Corinthians we see the power in a locality. We have gone from the individual to the collective position universally. Now we come to a locality in Corinth where we have the Spirit’s energy. He “searches all things, even the depths of God”. We might speak a little about the depths of God and what that means. I wondered if we could maybe help one another along these lines.

ALMcK I think it would be very profitable. Do these scriptures emphasise the readiness of the Holy Spirit to come, and the readiness of God to give this wonderful gift? The Lord said to the woman, “If thou knewest the gift of God ... thou wouldest have asked”. She did not know, but if she had known that all she had to do was ask, this wonderful gift was ready to be dispensed.

RG What condescending grace of the Lord! He says, “If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that says to thee”. Here is the Lord sitting at Sychar’s well—this well that had been there for generations—sitting there seeking a drink of water. Why? To reach this woman’s heart, to display to her that there is a power available to set her up in new conditions and in new relationships.

ALMcK Later on in this gospel does the Lord not say, “It is profitable for you that I go away”, John 16: 7? Nothing could be worse for the disciples than the Lord leaving them but He says, it is profitable in order that the Holy Spirit should come.

RG So that the profitableness is seen in the fact that the Spirit of God is coming from glory, is coming from on high.

JDG Do you think the Spirit was anticipating man coming into the creation? He was hovering over the face of the waters. There had been other creations but this was the final one, and God’s thought was that man should be brought into the scene.

RG Yes, and then it says that He breathed into him and Man became a living soul. It was the climax you might say of God’s operations.

JMcK Tell us what your thought is in relation to “Let there be light”, “the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters” but then God brings in light.

RG Well, “Let there be light”, is a whole general view of God Himself coming into the creation that was in thick darkness. We have to wait until we get the light to rule the day and the light to rule the night, but at this point this is the light of God coming in to dispel the darkness so that He might be able to operate. He operates in the light, life comes because of light.

JAG You see the truth of the kingdom of God entering into it, as is manifest in the woman, and then there is the wonderful energy she has, saying, “Come, see a man”.

RG Yes, that is what I wondered. In chapter 3 something is occurring that is causing a desire for the light to shine, for the Spirit to be able to come to a prepared vessel. The Spirit of God delights to rest on that which is prepared. What do you think?

JAG It is like the darkness on the face of the deep.

RG Yes, that is right. The five husbands are like the five senses. She had tried every sense, every legitimate thing, and what was illegitimate, and none of them was of any avail, and now she finds a Man, “Come, see a man”.

DTP The sixth sense was not operating, the conscience, because it is often spoken of that way, is it not? Man just thinks there are five senses, but God has placed something in that person that He desires to have a response from, and it is really conscience, is it not?

RG As has often been said, you cannot have a good conscience until you have had a bad conscience. The Lord is moving this woman in that direction, and she came to realise what she was as away from God.

MGW Can I ask about Genesis again? You did mention that light would come in by man. Is that not a lovely contrast between the Spirit of God hovering over a situation that was chaotic, and what it says that the Holy Spirit descended as a dove upon Christ, no disorder, no chaos, absolute perfection?

RG I think that it is interesting that when light comes in at the beginning it comes in before you get life but when you come to John it says, “In him was life, and the life was the light of men”, John 1: 4. The life was in a Man and that life was the light. The luminosity of light was the result of life that was in the Man, and in chapter 4 He is dealing with a poor benighted woman who needed so much.

GBG Does the hovering suggest along with the power, the feeling, the yearning of a divine Person?

RG Yes, and I think that it is appropriate that we bring that into the reading. That is why I read it because we want to impress upon our young people that there is a yearning by divine Persons, exemplified here by the Spirit hovering. Think of the Spirit hovering over somebody here this afternoon who is not yet in the knowledge of the Man, who says, “If thou knewest ... who it is that says to thee”. If there is someone not yet in communication or in communion or in relationship with that Man, the Spirit of God is hovering that there might be conditions there for Him to come in and energise that person.

TDB Why does it say, “shall become in him”?

RG Well, my simple impression about that has always been that there is a resource in the person. The source is inside the person, “shall become in him a fountain of water”. The Spirit of God is taking up His residence, I think, in the person. What a wonderful thing!

JSp The Lord speaks several times as to the Spirit of truth. Would that be the effect of light? The truth of God in the soul would liberate persons. Is that the first action of the Spirit to liberate them in relation to all that is in the heart of God?

RG Yes, that is very good. To liberate their minds first of all and then liberate their hearts. I think that is the order as far as I can see in scripture. God speaks to us and He affects us in our minds with a view to our hearts turning, and so you are liberated and your whole body then becomes free for God and for His service.

GCMcK You can see the light coming into the woman. She says, “Sir, I see that thou art a prophet”. She began to see something, and then following that verse there is a wonderful opening up by the Lord Jesus as to worshipping the Father. Do you see what was in the divine mind in all this in working it out in a woman?

RG I think a prophet is bringing the mind of God to bear on the person. It has often been said the word of prophecy has in view movement, and so this woman is beginning to move, “I see that thou art a prophet”. That was the turning point I think in her soul history.

GCMcK It seems that the light came in. “I see” she says. Light comes into her soul as to this Person who is before her.

RG So that we want to encourage one another and especially our young people today. I have the young people on my spirit because there are so many of them. We had about a hundred young people at our three-day meetings and that affected me. Well now, the Lord is looking down, the Spirit is hovering over some of these young people. Is there going to be some light shining into your soul so that you can say, “I see that thou art a prophet”?

JS Do you think the Lord’s feelings come out towards this woman? Would it raise an exercise with every believer as to whether we have received the Spirit or not initially? “If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is who says to thee, Give me to drink, thou wouldest have asked of him”. Really this is what is in mind for every believer who receives the gospel. I think it is a real exercise that every believer should really know that they have received the Spirit.

RG Every believer should know consciously that they have the Spirit, not just something that they have been told. We have been brought up in an environment of great spiritual education but that is not good enough. There has to be personal experience, and that is what the Lord is getting at here, do you think?

JS I think so. It is quite affecting how real this experience was with this woman, and it seems to me that there is a real need for being sure of having the Spirit. He is waiting to come into our souls, but we need to make way for Him, to make sure we have received Him.

RG I think so, and how do you know? That is the first thing; how do you know? We recognise, usually retrospectively, when new birth took place, when instinct began to operate in us. We probably started to want to be in the company of persons who knew the Lord and had the Spirit. Then to have a transaction with this One, a Man who is moving about with a view to finding persons, retrieving them from the darkness, that they might have the Spirit.

JMcK The woman found this idea attractive, saying, “give me this water”, but then the Lord asks her some questions. What do you say as to that?

RG I think that is history. Do you remember when the Lord asked you questions? He has asked us all questions and He keeps asking us questions. That is no bad thing.

JMcK There are certain things to be dealt with first. She found the idea attractive but she was not a suitable vessel at that point, was she?

RG Well, when you get older you maybe begin to think that the Lord has asked all the questions, without realising that something may come in, something else has come into your mind maybe, not your actions but might be your mind, and the Lord has to ask you questions about that. He would say, Why has that come into your mind? Our brother has drawn attention to the importance of knowing that we have the Spirit, and that is a healthy exercise, but then to know the Spirit as active is the next step.

RT You begin to have some energy if you have the Spirit. How would we know? Romans chapters 7 and 8 help you, do they not? You begin to know at the end of Romans 7 that certain things dominated you before, and you begin to realise that you can master these things in the Spirit’s grace, do you not?

RG That is very interesting because we have been speaking about the Lord asking us questions and that is true in the gospel. When you come to meet the Lord He asks you questions, but now in Romans 7 I am asking the questions. What a question that is, “Who shall deliver me out of this body of death?” (Romans 7: 24). I think this woman had come to that at this point; she is asking this question now, “Who shall deliver me?” and here is the Man, the great Deliverer.

CKR Could you say something on the significance of it being an indwelling Spirit? There is something very distinctive about that for this dispensation is there not?

RG That is what I feel. It is now nearly sixty years since we were recovered to the great truth of the Spirit and the place He should have in us and with us, and then in the service. Sixty years on and I ask myself, How much do I know of the presence and power of the Holy Spirit in me. The Spirit came on persons in the old dispensation and mighty acts of power were done, but this is intimate. The Spirit really wants to take the vessel over.

CKR We must never forget He is a divine Person, so you have the Spirit objectively, but you also have the Spirit subjectively, known both in the individual and then worked through into the company. It is a marvellous truth that the Spirit indwells the assembly, is it not?

RG Yes, it is a wonderful thing to think that, as Mr James Taylor put it, the assembly affords a dwelling-place for the Holy Spirit, ‘infinity comes into the finite’ (J.T. Vol. 50, p.386).

EJM The Spirit would lead us into the area of eternal life, do you think? It says in Romans 8, “as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God” (Romans 8: 14).

RG You know all the conflict there was about eternal life, the greatness of the conditions of eternal life being appreciated here on earth. Eternal life is a contrast; eternal is in contrast to time, and life is in contrast to death, and both are experienced in time, in an area where there is natural death but spiritual life, and in that area relationships can be enjoyed with persons who are enjoying the springing up of the well. What do you think?

EJM I was thinking of John 5, it is a chapter of light. It is really light as to the person of the Father.

RG So John’s gospel is progressive. You come then to chapter 6, the great food chapter. You get light and you get food. Chapter 7 is the flowing out of the water. In chapter 9 you have the man who can worship, “Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he ... and he did him homage” (John 9: 37, 38).

JS Could you say some more about this feature of the fountain, “springing up into eternal life”? Does this suggest the energetic side?

RG That is what was in my mind. I was interested when you spoke about the gift of the Spirit and knowing that we have the gift of the Spirit. How essential that is, but the next step is also essential, and that is knowing whether the Spirit is energetic in me. We speak about grieving the Spirit, think when you grieve the Spirit, beloved brethren, the fountain is not producing the power; it cannot. The Spirit of God has to recede. Would you agree with that?

JS Yes, I fully go with that, so this energy by the Spirit is directed into this area where eternal life is known. That is among the saints.

RG That is it, “springing up into eternal life”. We all know the definition that it is ‘a heavenly condition of relationship and being, in which eternal life consists’. However we have to know what the reality is, the springing up into eternal life, known among the saints.

GBG It is a scene of physical death but it is also a scene of moral death, and there is moral death in this woman. An unbeliever is morally dead. Eternal life is in contrast to moral death.

RG It is interesting because this was a fountain of Jacob’s. You might not apply moral death to that but I think you have to. I think when you see what has happened through the history of the testimony, you see this is a well that is not of living water. There is nothing in it that would keep you going through time into eternity.

RT The woman seems to be growing in appreciation of who this Person is. Does that go along with making room for the Spirit, do the two things go along concurrently?

RG Yes, you mean that as Christ has greater control, one would become more subject to Him, then the Spirit is more free to operate.

RT Rebecca had the glad tidings of Isaac, and her heart grew in her appreciation of Isaac, and that makes way for her saying, “I will go”, Genesis 24: 58. She had the energy to move.

RG And then the energy continued because when she got to the end of the journey she sprang off the camel. She had said, “Who is the man that is walking in the fields to meet us?” (Genesis 24: 65), and she sprang off the camel. There was the energy, the fountain was continuing to well up, you might say. The fountain should be springing up to eternal life all the time.

JDG The time came when the Lord says, “I who speak to thee am he” (John 4: 26) and in John 9 there is the same thing, “he that speaks with thee is he” (John 9: 37). It caused worship in that man’s soul and it causes worship in the woman’s soul. That is what we arrive at, is it not?

RG I think that is the teaching of John’s gospel. Individuals are secured in the first nine chapters and the flock comes in in chapter 10. Then we get resurrection and a woman who can bring her ointment of pure nard; then we get the Spirit operating with a view to there being worship to God.

JDG She comes to Christ here as Messiah. The man comes to Christ as the Son of God, then he is ready for the flock.

RG Say some more about it.

JDG It is how we progress from the individual to the collective.

RT That involved displacement, another man takes over instead of self. Another man shows affection. Displacement makes room for the fountain, does it not?

RG Yes. These six people have gone now out of her view. She reminds you at this point of the stone water-vessels (John 2: 6); they were empty. I think this woman was empty and she came and saw a Man who could give her what could fill her for ever.

ALMcK She said, “Art thou greater than our father Jacob ...?” (John 4: 12). Elsewhere in the book it says, “Art thou greater than our father Abraham ...?” (John 8: 53), and the impression is also raised as to the greatness of Moses, but great though these persons were they were not to be compared with the Lord Jesus. These three persons were in the past and she says, “I know that Messias is coming” (John 4: 25), but the greatness of the present time, you are suggesting, is that we know the Lord Jesus in His risen and glorified condition and the Holy Spirit here.

RG Yes. Here we have a Man who can give to others the blessedness of a divine Person who can spring up within, and the energy of such a divine Person brings us into direct relationship with what is of God.

CKR So why then is it so important that Christ’s work has to be done, and He was to be glorified before the giving of the Spirit in Acts 2?

RG Well it is from that level. The Lord is speaking to her here in one sense anticipatively. The Spirit of God was with the Lord when He was here. I have always valued that. He says, “if I by the Spirit” (Matthew 12: 28), for example, and then when He speaks to the disciples He says, “he abides with you, and shall be in you”, John 14: 17. He is with you is how the Spirit of God was with them in Christ, but then “shall be in you” was something new. It required that Christ had to be in the glory, to commune with the Father and the Spirit for those ten days before the Spirit could come, in the knowledge that there were persons here that were ready to receive Him.

CKR We must never forget that the rock had to be smitten before the water flowed as you go back to the type in Exodus; the work had to be accomplished. He Himself could say in John, “I thirst” (John 19: 28).

RG He had to die. He had to be buried and be raised again, then forty days of spiritual education before ascending into heaven. The disciples had a spiritual experience with a Man who was out of death preparatory to the heavenly position. He came in through closed doors; that was a spiritual experience, but then when He goes into heaven, “such also the heavenly ones”, 1 Corinthians 15: 48. What a transformation; it is like from glory to glory.

JSp Is that the force of this springing up, it always goes in that direction? The mind of the flesh is death, you are through that; the mind of the Spirit life and peace. It always springs up towards Christ where He is, do you think?

RG Yes, that is good. Anything this woman gathered up was through her water-pot; it only lasted for a short time and only kept her on the ground. What was the water-pot anyway? What do you put in your water-pot? What is it that you are depending on for the day? What am I depending on? Is it my salary, is it my job, is it my education? It will only last you for a day, and it will be a meagre life you will have.

JDG So the Spirit coming upon them in Acts 2 was early in the day and satisfied them for the whole day.

RG Very good and what a day it was too.

JAG Just following up what has been said, it was a long day and they had satisfaction right through to the end, until the Spirit and the bride say, Come.

RG Yes, the footnote to that verse, “And when the day of Pentecost was now accomplishing”, says. ‘It was come and running its course of fulfilment as a feast’. Running its course, is that what you had in your mind?

JAG Governmental limitations may have come in, but no matter where you came from, you heard, you understood, and that should be current with us, should it not?

RG Yes, “And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave to them to speak forth”. What a wondrous transformation! Here were all these persons dwelling in Jerusalem, the Jews, pious men from every nation, they all came into the meeting-room, and there is this wondrous transformation, the energy of the Spirit, they are all able to speak so that they are understood.

ALMcK Is there a difference between “filled all the house” and “they were all filled with the Holy Spirit”?

RG Yes, I think filling the house is the idea of demonstrating the power of the impetuous blowing, but then He filled each one of them. It says, “And there appeared to them parted tongues, as of fire, and it sat upon each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit”. The power was manifested in the impetuous blowing in the house but they were all filled. Are we all filled?

RT It “filled all the house”. It was the only place it seemed to fill.

RG They were in Jerusalem. There was a temple there. I suppose it was still the same temple as when they said, “see what stones and what buildings!”, Mark 13: 1. The Spirit was not there. The Spirit was filling the house where there were people who had a direct link with a Man in heaven. What do you think yourself?

RT What is filled is very much emphasised; it filled all the house and then they were all filled with the Holy Spirit. There is the energy and the power there to rise above the confusion that had come into the scene but there is an area where it is to be known.

RG That is good because “filled all the house” means that there was not any room for anything else. It is a wonderful thing to think that there was a room with persons in it, and room for nothing else but the Holy Spirit.

JSp It came where they were sitting. Would that involve a certain restfulness?

RG I think so. They were persons who had been so affected by the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Christ that they were now restful and waiting.

JS Once they were all filled with the Holy Spirit they began to speak. Do you think that is important in regard to speaking down through the dispensation? It comes energetically by the Spirit, do you think?

RG I think if there is anything that is going to be of any value in our spiritual lives this is the way it has to happen.

AMB What would you say about the fact that the Spirit appeared as parted tongues as of fire, what is the bearing of fire?

RG Well, I think it reminds us that the flesh is the flesh. It has often been pointed out that the flesh may not be always active but it is always latent, it is always there, and the fire is available, so that there might be nothing impure. The fire burns up what is impure, and even if there were conditions where the Spirit was so free and in such liberty, yet there is the reminder that there has to be what will negate anything that would hinder the power of the Spirit.

MGW That would be the fulfilment then of what the Lord said, “till ye be clothed with power from on high” (Luke 24: 49), so that it would not be in any energy of the flesh or its enthusiasm, but in the power of the Spirit. Is that it?

RG That is right. There was nothing of nature about it, and there is nothing artificial about it, and yet they say, “They are full of new wine”. That would have been an artificial idea, something introduced from outside.

GCMcK It seems to relate especially to speaking, does it not? As parted tongues; there is meaning in that, “parted tongues as of fire”, and the energy of the Spirit shows itself immediately in speaking the great things of God. That is a powerful activity, and do we not want to know something of that nowadays—speaking by the Holy Spirit?

RG I think that is very exercising because there is only one Spirit, parted tongues, but there is only one Spirit; so if you are using your tongue, and I am using my tongue, we should be saying the same thing, we should be in the Spirit’s power. Now we know that that is true when we come to the worship of God, but it should be true in every relationship that we have, and every time we speak to one another. We should not be saying one thing to one person and another thing to another person.

RT There is great unity about this. Then we get the unity of the Spirit and we are encouraged to keep it, are we not? The unity of the Spirit is coming in here and we use diligence to keep it.

RG That is right. We did not read on but the very next verse says, “Peter, standing up with the eleven”. The unity of the Spirit was maintained as he starts to speak. They were all speaking at this point here where we read of the great things of God.

JSp Would it lead on to communicating spiritual things by spiritual means?

RG That is good; say some more about that.

JSp It is really that that lays the basis for all assembly service, whether in readings or ministry or the service of God. It is using the Spirit for communication, and He is bringing these great things of God into our hearts and into our minds and our voices, do you think?

RG So that each one heard them speaking in his own dialect the great things of God. They had never heard anything like this before. I suppose some of them might have been university men and no doubt thought they had heard great things, but they had never heard anything like this. When Paul went to Athens they had never heard anything like Paul could tell them, and that is a word for all of us. What are we giving our ears to, beloved brethren? Do we think that some things out there in man’s world are great, worth paying attention to? There is nothing in this world worth paying attention to, but the great things of God will maintain us at the level that God delights to have us.

CKR The great things of God; what about the depth?

RG Now that is what I thought we might move on to. Tell us about it.

CKR You get the impression that these expressions may have waited until Paul’s ministry with the opening up of the Spirit, and the whole opening up of the purpose of God, but as you touched on earlier the Spirit delights to search the depths. The Spirit is at home in that realm, speaking simply, is He not?

RG Yes, I would love to hear what the brethren think about this. I understand that the deepest mines are the gold mines, and I think the depths of God are the gold and the Spirit brings to light the gold; the gold of Ophir, the gold of Parvaim. Why were these names given? it was the best kind of gold.

JMM The capacity that has been conferred on us by the Spirit gives us the ability to enter into these things, and to be able to exercise our judgment of everything that comes to us so as to assess the quality against the character of this gold.

RG Yes, the gold here I think is of a purity that man has never known. The great things of God would probably include the greatness of the use of the keys of the kingdom which were given to Peter. You think about what that was. He uses his first key to open the door to let the Jews in, and then he uses the second key to let the Gentiles in. Were not these great things of God? Now when you come to the deep things, the depths, you are coming to Paul’s ministry, the gold of Ophir, the gold of Parvaim.

JAG The cross and the grave would relate to the deep things of God.

RG Yes, I wondered about that. I was thinking about Jonah. It says that he went down to the bottoms of the mountains, and the weeds were wrapped around his head. These are the deep things of God. We cannot say much in relation to the abandonment but I think that was probably one of the deepest of all.

JAG The Spirit does not have to search this for Himself. As we are interested and concerned He searches it for us. Is that your thought?

RG Yes. I think it has been said that we cannot search the depths of God; it is only the Spirit of God who can search the depths of God; but if the Spirit of God is in us and He is searching then we come in for the benefit of what He is searching out.

RT God has prepared them for them that love Him; this is open to lovers, is it not?

RG Yes, that is good, lovers of God. There is so much around us to attract us to be lovers of other things. You will never know the Spirit’s power searching the depths of God if you are loving other things; “lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God”, 2 Timothy 3: 4. You know “lovers of pleasure” covers a tremendous area. It covers everything that you might find pleasure in. It may be that what you find pleasure in, I would not find pleasure in, and what I would find pleasure in (I am talking about natural things) you would not find pleasure in, but these can take us away from being lovers of God.

JDG It says here that they “have not come into man’s heart”. What was communicated to Paul in the third heaven was on that line, was it not, what had not come into man’s heart?

RG That is interesting because he went as far as the third heaven and into paradise, “and heard unspeakable things said which it is not allowed to man to utter”, 2 Corinthians 12: 4. When a person falls asleep through Jesus, we often speak about their spirit being with the Lord. It has been said that while they do not have bodies and are limited, they do know things and can hear (see J. Taylor, Vol. 41, p.195). Now what do we hear? If we are lovers of God our ears should be open.

RT The depths of God link you with eternity. It brings you back to what is in the divine mind, quite apart from sin being able to damage it at all.

RG I wondered if it linked with the beginning of Ephesians, when Paul says,

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ” (Ephesians 1: 3); then he speaks about “having marked us out beforehand for adoption through Jesus Christ” (Ephesians 1: 5). That is one of the deep things of God, is it not?

RT And the way He has effectuated it, makes us lovers of God.

RG That is right. The way that he has brought us into these blessings, including the greatness of the mystery and the greatness of our enjoyment of bridal affection with Christ, is all part of the deep things of God.

TDB Did our brother say that He searches the depths of God for the saints?

JAG He does not search them for Himself. He searches them with us as we are exercised. This is Ephesian language, is it not? The depths of God are the depths of divine love in its fulness.

RT It would come out in ministry today, would it not?

RG Yes. The depths of God are what the Spirit alone can reach. He searches them out. The gold had to be brought to the surface if it was going to be of any value to adorn the persons who were living for God.

RT It brings out the ministries of the recovery; what has gone on in previous generations has been searched out for us and has been made good in our souls by the Spirit’s grace.

RG I think that is a timely word because there are not only the books that Paul says to bring, but also the parchments. The books contained what had been searched out and written down. Then he says, “especially the parchments” (2 Timothy 4: 13)—that was the current ministry. So that you have to be mindful of the present current ministry. Anyone not availing themselves of the current ministry is missing out. The variety that is there is for our learning.

JAG It is all in the Spirit, of course.

RG Yes, it is all in the Spirit.

JS God has prepared these things and He has revealed them by the Spirit. It is a wonderful thing to think of God preparing things and currently revealing them to us, do you think?

RG You think about what God has prepared beforehand. It is a tremendous thought, beloved brethren, that God had us in mind before the world’s foundation, and that the Lord had us in mind when He was hanging on the cross. Paul says, who has loved me and given himself for me”, Galatians 2: 20. The Lord had him in mind, and had us in mind before we were in flesh and blood condition, so that divine things can be revealed to persons who are under the power of the Holy Spirit.

JS This really takes us back beyond the hovering in Genesis 1, does it not? You can see the Spirit’s feelings and concern that these things should be realised among men.

RG Yes. Think what it must be to the Spirit now, a divine Person, who hovers over the face of the waters, acts in new birth, comes in as requested to persons who are subject, and who is made way for so that He might be free in individuals and in localities to search the depths of God.

ALMcK It speaks about the great things of God, and then the depths of God, and then in the next verse he simply speaks about the things of God; but it is all exclusive to the Spirit, as it says, “thus also the things of God knows no one except the Spirit of God”. That would show the essential character of the Spirit, would it?

RG Yes. The Spirit will be operative through all ages in the things of God including the depths of God.

Reading at Brechin
10 November 2007

KEY TO INITIALS

T. D. Beveridge

J. M. Macfarlane

D. T. Pye

A. M. Brown

A. L. McKay

C. K. Robinson

J. A. Gardiner

G. C. McKay

J. Spinks

R. Gardiner

J. McKay

J. Strachan

G. B. Grant

E. J. Mair

M. G. Wood

J. D. Gray