SONSHIP

Galatians 2: 23-29; 4: 1-7; Romans 8: 12-15; 2 Samuel 9: 6-8; 19: 24, 30

R.T. I suggested these scriptures that they might afford a spirit of liberty to speak to us as to sonship, a matter as to its term with which we would all be very familiar. I believe there is scope for the Spirit to enlarge us in our thoughts as to the practical expression of it. I thought in the passage in Galatians, we have the light of sonship – a very wonderful thing to come into - “for ye are all God’s sons by faith in Christ Jesus”. In Romans, I thought we would see something of the power of it to be in expression, “led by the Spirit of God”. In Mephibosheth, I thought there was perhaps an example of someone who lived in the joy of it in testing surroundings, in the sense that his true place, eating at David’s table as one of the king’s sons, nourished him in view of being loyal in the testimony.

Perhaps first we could speak of how sonship has come into expression in our time as never before. It has come into expression in Christ. It is remarkable how much He is referred to as the Son. What came into view in that pathway, in His circumstances here, as John says, was “a glory as of an only-begotten with a father”, John 1: 14. In His movements here you saw a Man who was in relationship with His Father. What results flowed from that relationship! Speaking too that has come into our dispensation, God speaking, but He is speaking in Son. The whole dispensation, you may say, is dominated by the light of sonship and the One in whom it has come into expression, all to the end that we might be attracted into it, that there may be the features of sonship continued in us today. So it says, “but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son”. That was how it was going to be expressed, not in law or in prophets or in angels, or even in Israel, although they would perhaps know something about it in some limited sense, but God in this day and dispensation has brought this relationship on to view in Christ. As we follow His footsteps, what we see is a Son with a Father. What power that gave to all that He did! It displayed itself in many ways, but what was seen was a Son with a Father. May our hearts be attracted into that relationship and to see that it is our portion!

R.J.C. Does sonship bring us into liberty and wealth over against the law of which the apostle treats here?

R.T. I think that is what the apostle has in mind here, that the light of it may dawn on our souls to bring us into a great realm of liberty and affection, and into joy. The apostle here is correcting bondage. He does not correct it by dealing with the state exactly but by bringing in the light: “for ye are all God’s sons by faith in Christ Jesus”. Paul does the same in Corinth. While he takes up matters, he tells them “Do ye not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have of God?” 1 Cor 6: 19. Do you not recognise yourselves? I believe the Spirit would encourage us to help us to recognise ourselves, to see what we really have been brought into. We do not work up to sonship; we do not reach sonship through state, but state is coloured from sonship. I think that is what Paul would say: that is our light. When the light of it dawns in our souls, it frees us from looking to ourselves for things, but we see that God’s thought about every believer in Christ Jesus is that they are a son. And so in that light He would instruct us that we might come into the affections and the liberty that is suited to the great Name that has been named upon us.

C.K.R. “So that the law has been our tutor up to Christ”, but this is something entirely new and the blessed source is in God Himself. Has that come into operation?

R.T. Yes, so we are in a different time. We are in a time when the whole matter has come into display in the Son in all its blessed attractiveness and what liberty He had with the Father in those movements. It says He was in His “Father’s business”, Luke 2: 49. And He speaks about His “Father’s house”, John 14: 2. His whole life was towards the Father and the Father being pleased. What liberty He had as being in the joy of that relationships!

G.C.McK. In Romans you have the Spirit of adoption, but here the Spirit of His Son. Does that show the level of things that God has in mind, that what is set out so blessedly in Christ is in some way to be in our hearts, in our experience?

R.T. It is absolutely beautiful. God has no lesser thought. Mr. Darby says:

And is it so, we shall be like Thy Son?

Is this the grace, which He for us has won?

                                                             (Hymn 247)

It will require another body for its fulness, but if we could just get some sense in all our souls that God’s thought for us, whenever we come to know the Lord Jesus, is that we are a son!

R.G. It is no afterthought. We are “marked … out beforehand for adoption through Jesus Christ to himself”, Eph 1: 5.

R.T. There is a time - and now is the time – that that has come into display.

R.G. I was thinking what a stabilising influence it is when you realise that God has had this in His mind before time was, and we have been in His mind, “marked … out beforehand for adoption”.

R.T. And now the time of the law has passed and the time is for receiving sonship. It says, “That we might receive sonship”. God is dispensing it in all the wealth of His love, and it is now the time for receiving it. I think the sense of receiving it puts a dignity upon us and a power within us in the Spirit that we no longer are debtors to the flesh, but we are able to live here in the power and in the joy of a known, undisturbed relationship.

R.J.C. Has the Spirit been given that we might enjoy sonship? “For ye are all God’s sons by faith in Christ Jesus”. As you say, that applies to every believer, but the Spirit would give us the full enjoyment of the relationships that God has brought us into.

R.T. So that God does not only give us the title: He gives us the power to enjoy all that the title conveys. It is a very remarkable section of scripture. “But because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit …”. From this point of view, you are a son even before you have the Spirit in the conscious sense of it. God is thinking of us so bountifully and so richly that now He would bless us with all the resources that are needed to be in the joy and the liberty of being His sons.

W.L. Paul in chapter 1 in his reference to “his Son” speaks about “was pleased to reveal his Son in me, that I may announce him as glad tidings among the nations” (v 16). That seemed to colour Paul’s ministry.

R.T. Very remarkably, and you can see sonship coming into expression in Paul, perhaps next to the Lord. There he is in Galatia, in Corinth with all the troubles; there is a son in liberty! The enjoyment of that relationships coming into his circumstances, I think, answers a thousand questions. We have a sense that we are brought into this position of favour and given the resources to be maintained in the height of all that that favour has conferred upon us.

D.A.S. The Lord Jesus did not take very long to introduce the truth and joy of sonship to the man in John 9. He saw he was ready for it, do you think? “Thou, does thou believe on the Son of God?” (v 35).

R.T. Yes, it is very beautiful how quickly he came into it. He came into the joy by being in liberty outside the system. His life had been dependent on the Jewish system before, but I think a son of God is not dependent on any system for his joy and happiness. As a son of God, you are brought into another atmosphere and order of things altogether where everything is sustaining the joy of these relationships that we are called into. I recall an address in this city some years ago by Stanley McCallum. He said, we often speak of laying hold of sonship, but, he said, my exercise is that sonship might lay hold of us. I think that is a very exercising remark. None of us here but knows something of sonship, perhaps on Lord’s Day morning. We know in these hymns that we sing, something of our place of acceptance. But sonship laying hold of us is something far deeper than that. It means wherever I go and whatever I do, is marked by someone who has a relationship with the Father. That coming into our practical exercises, dear brethren, is something very pleasurable to heaven and very powerful too. The enjoyment of sonship we will see from Mephibosheth. He was a different man from all that was around: he was in the joy of having his part at the king’s table, eating bread as one of the king’s sons.

G.C.McK. Paul could say in chapter 4: “Be as I am, for I also am as ye, brethren”, (v 12). The thing was expressed in him. That is your exercise, that we should be so in the enjoyment of it that it is expressed in us. Do we become influential in that way?

R.T. I think so, and I feel the importance of the light of it laying hold of us. As I said, it is not setting aside state, but sonship is to affect state rather than the other way round. When we are younger we perhaps think that sonship is something older brethren reach. We think it is something we will reach as we get through the exercises of the flesh, but sonship is God’s thought about us as we come to have faith in Christ Jesus. I think that is delivering for us so that we then seek help and prove the Spirit’s grace that it is not only a term, but the joy of it and liberty of it are proved in our daily lives.

R.J.C. “For ye are all God’s sons by faith in Christ Jesus” – yet sonship had not laid hold of these persons, so it is a question of seeing what God has bestowed on us, the dignity of the relationship that He has brought us into so that this might, as you say, lay hold of us and we enjoy it.

R.T. It is the effect of the gospel. The gospel is not only a gospel of relief but it is that God has delivered us. He says, “Let my son go, that he may serve me”, Exod 4: 23. The gospel is to take us from the circumstances of bondage and bring us into the liberty of being one of the sons of God. That does not happen in one preaching exactly. But the light of it needs to be known among us that it is God’s thought about us. It says, “God conducts himself towards you as towards sons”, Heb 12: 7. Even if God has to bring discipline into our lives, He does not forget that that is what you are in His sight. He would encourage us to have a conscious sense that this is what we really are, one of God’s sons.

W.G. Is it important that not only are we sons but He has “sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts”? You might adopt a child, but you cannot put the right spirit into him, but God has done that, so we have the right feelings towards the Father.

R.T. Well, it says, “because ye are sons …” He thinks so much of us that He regards us in that light and in that relationship, that He has now given us the feelings and the power that are suited to the relationship so that we need not fall back on other principles. We do not fall back on the world for support, for our entertainment, or for joys or for anything. God has given the Spirit of His Son into our hearts. He has given us the resources to enjoy the fulness and sweetness of the relationship.

J.M. Is it a relationship of love?

R.T. Yes it is. It is the Father, God, who only could have proposed such a thing. Again as Mr Darby says, ‘And, is it so?’ Think of a love that would have us in the house in such dignity and in such liberty.

J.M. I feel impressed with the greatness of the liberty that we are brought into, but being more conscious of the love of the Father would increase our liberty.

R.T. I think it would and also preserve us from falling back on formality. The conscious sense of the relationship would give us to be in the joy of the house and give increased wealth in the response.

D.B.R. Why do you think it is contrasted to children in this section? In verse 3 it says, “So we also, when we were children, were held in bondage … but when the fulness of the time was come”.

R.T. Do you think it is that God would have us to be in full maturity? It is something that we could do with developing so that in the circumstances and the environment we may be in, we are helped to get beyond any element of bondage, to be in the full liberty and joy of the house. What is your impression?

D.B.R. Would that idea of maturity be involved in the term here, “but when the fulness of the time was come” as if this was really what God has been operating in view of during the whole period of time?

R.T. Yes, you get some impression that God has been waiting for this and that was so at the incoming of Christ. It says, He “sent forth his Son”. Think of Him sending Him out into those circumstances and all the opposition that was there: “God sent forth his Son”, into that realm of criticism and opposition to display something of what His thoughts were for men.

J.S. Would it especially bear on the light given to Paul? It is clear that the other disciples had a certain knowledge of Him – Peter had, but he did not actually minister it. I am just trying to get into my mind that, laying hold of in our souls the light of Christ where He is, would bring us into the liberty of it.

R.T. I think Paul is dealing primarily with the reproduction of that Man above in the circumstances of the local assembly where the enemy is so active to bring in bondage and to hold the saints short of their calling. So Paul says, He “was pleased to reveal his Son in me”, Gal 1: 16. Think of Paul, as we have said already, in these circumstances in the local company in Galatia, the divisions there were in Corinth, bringing in heavenly light among them.

J.D.G. It is remarkable that we are sons before we receive the Spirit – we need to grasp hold of that; “by faith in Christ Jesus” is in relation to that Man, then God gives us the Spirit. Is that for us to enjoy our sonship?

R.T. It is a very remarkable thing and not something that perhaps we have thought much about. What would you say about it?

J.D.G. I am just impressed by what you have brought before us that, through faith in Christ Jesus, I can look on myself as a son of God, but then He sees the need to give us the Spirit of His Son in our hearts. It must be to bring us into the enjoyment of it.

R.T. It is to open the doors of the house, to be there in full liberty, but I think what you have called attention to is needful for us all to realise, that God’s thought about us is that we are sons.

J.D.G. That changes your outlook on life. It brings you into dignity. You belong to the royal family, you might say.

R.T. It changes too the liberty you have, that you are one of God’s sons. Well, has that really laid hold of me? Would I go into circumstances that may bring me into bondage?

R.G. Is what has been referred to borne out by the fact that it is “by faith in Christ Jesus”; it is not ‘in Jesus Christ’. We have come to recognise, through the gospel in our initial stages, the glory and wonder of what Jesus Christ has done for us - that Man - but do you think the next step is here in Galatia where it is Christ Jesus, the anointed Man, the glorious Man who is filling God’s universe, you might say, and as we are taken up in the dignity of that, we might understand something of sonship?

R.T. And He is the Man who is the centre of all God’s promises. “By faith in Christ Jesus”: It takes you beyond the scene of time. It connects your affections with a Man in another set of circumstances and that faith God honours, and says, you are one of My sons.

D.B.R. “God sent forth”: has that a very wide bearing in that way? It is over against perhaps the Jewish system, which was restricted. I wondered if God sending out would be in correspondence to the position Christ has taken in His presence.

R.T. These are two cardinal features of the time we are in: “ye are all God’s sons by faith in Christ Jesus” and then “God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts”. They need to lay hold of us, that whatever else there is in the dispensation, these two things show the way that God has operated to reach His end in men, how He has dignified them in bringing them into this family and has also given them the feelings and the affections and the liberty that are suited to the relationship. He has sent it out. How liberal God has been! What resources have come into operation that the glory and beauty of sonship may be laid hold of by us?

C.K.R. Help us to see the value of the truth of redemption and reconciliation. You are bringing forward a very exalted but very wealthy line of things, but underpinning it all must be these truths as well.

R.T. I think it is like the boards of the tabernacle standing in two sockets of silver. It is like persons in the gain of faith in Christ Jesus and in the gain of redemption. What dignity and glory was on these boards! I think that is some type of the persons who are in the gain of all that has been introduced. God has come in in redemption to meet all liabilities that were there and all the things that may lay claim upon us, that we may have the full joy of the light of this dispensation.

C.K.R. Would the fervency of the cry of “Abba Father” in the power of the Spirit bring out the good and gain of these things in the soul of the believer?

R.T. I think so. So there is a great issue from realising that we have been brought into this realm of sonship, as you say, going out to the One who has been the blessed source of it all.

G.C.McK. I was thinking of what has been referred to, “God sent forth his Son … that he might redeem those under law”. Every claim has been met. Even the law itself, which had a claim, that is removed. You can see how it paves the way for complete liberty and the new view of things.

R.T. It is very beautiful. As we said earlier, God purposed this before time began, but think of the way that He has done it: “Out of Egypt have I called my son”, Matt 2: 15. There they were, slaves in Egypt, and there is a great attempt by the devil today, dear brethren, to bring the saints into bondage through many things. The enemy would be active to bring us under slavery and tribute, but God has operated in redemption in the power of His love, and in the gift of the Spirit, that this feature of sonship may not be negated or the function of it wane, but the joy and the power of it may be known in present circumstances.

J.S. In John 10 the Shepherd led them out by virtue of His own attractiveness. Would that be somewhat akin to this? The leading them out, redeeming those from under law. The fold was like that – it was restrictive – but the attractiveness of Christ lays hold of us. It leads us out. We go in and out and find pasture.

R.T. Very good, so that in Bethany they made Him a supper. There were persons there who were brought into the dignity and the joy and the liberty of being at table with Christ. This is where sonship is leading us, with power to meet responsibilities in sonship. We do not just meet them as getting through the exercises. I think the dignity and the power of sonship come into our exercises so that they are met righteously and fully and so persons are in true liberty to be in the joy of the Father’s love.

W.L. It was mentioned earlier about children. Say something about the difference between children of God and sons of God. It might not have been too well understood.

R.T. I think children refers to the place we have in the family as proving the Father’s care. The Father’s feelings go out to the children and He takes account of our needs: children have to be fed, and clothed. But there are other aspects of course. John has children who come on to the border of sonship, you may say, when he uses that term. But in Galatians the idea of children is that we are not yet in the full liberty, not grown up. There is still something to learn. But I think in sonship God has given us the full run of the house and the dignity to be there for His own pleasure and joy.

W.L. It is quite a test to realise what you say, that we are always sons no matter in what circumstances we are. That might not be fully realised with us and would bear very much on our conduct and be a basis for acting as sons in the service of God, do you think?

R.T. I think the two things go together. I feel myself – I am not speaking critically – but we are far more familiar with the term of sonship than with the practice of sonship and we need them both. We “are all God’s sons by faith in Christ Jesus” and we enjoy what it is to sing those hymns and to take our place in sonship, but it does not just last for a Lord’s Day. We are sons of God on Monday. Think of sons praying in the prayer meeting, sons speaking in the temple, sons at their work who have a conscious sense that there are sons of God’. Your work will be different from that of those around you. Would you go on strike? A son of God would not be bound by those things that come into the workplace. Would you be in an association? It is far below our dignity to be enslaved by the things that men bring in and the ordinances that pervade society. A son of God is able to meet these things righteously but he meets them in the glory and the dignity and the enjoyment of being in the love of God.

D.B.R. I was wondering if sonship practically would be conveyed in the proverb. It says, “A wise son maketh a glad father”, Prov 10: 1. We would like to make our Father’s heart glad in everything we do. Would that be a practical application?

R.T. How beautifully that was seen in Jesus: “my Father”. And there He is as He comes into the temple: “my Father’s house”, John 2: 16. Think of the way He was activated as seeing what was brought into that temple: “my Father’s house”! I think it gives us some sense of seeking to please Him. If we enjoy the favour that has been conferred upon us – we will see that in Mephibosheth – we would seek in the circumstances of daily life to hold things at the level of our relationship. We would not want anything to disturb the enjoyment of that relationship. The relationship cannot be broken but we may allow something to disturb the enjoyment of it.

J.A.B. Romans and Galatians speak of crying or saying “Abba Father”. The only reference to the Lord Jesus using these words is in pressure in the garden in the night in which He was delivered up. Would you comment on that, please?

R.T. I do not know that I could say much about it, but in the very pressure of circumstances that were so testing, think of Him saying these words, ‘Abba Father’. It shows what was in His heart, so that testings and circumstances bring out whether we are a son and whether we are in the enjoyment of sonship or else they turn us to beggarly principles. That is what happened in Galatia. Pressures came into their lives and they turned to beggarly principles. So in our practical circumstances God tests His own work. What is our recourse? Do we remember that we are a son of God, therefore we count on the resources that He has given us in His Spirit to fulfil matters so that we are in full liberty to say, ‘Father, Father’.

J.M. The young man in Luke 15 says, “I am no longer worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants” (v 19), but the Father says, “Bring out the best robe and clothe him in it” (v 22).

R.T. That is the importance of what I was saying as to the light of sonship. We can never fall back to being a hired servant although we may take that ground at times. Difficult circumstances come into our pathway and we say, ‘Well, my sins are forgiven. I am saved and I will go to heaven’. But persons in the light of sonship will never speak in those terms. The light of sonship coming into our souls is that we want to please the Father, and in doing that we are proving the Spirit of God’s Son in our hearts.

R.J.C. I was thinking of Luke 15. Do you get the contrast there between a son enjoying the divine presence and the elder son outside?

R.T. Well, he had never grown up.

R.J.C. The father did not call the elder son a son: “Child, thou art ever with me” (v 31).

R.T. He did not know his father and perhaps in our experience it has needed exercises like the prodigal to bring us back to see what the Father’s thoughts about us were. That robe was there when he was in the far country. He still regarded him as a son, and, in the exercises of the way, God never changes His thoughts about us, but He would encourage us, I think, to see that He has given the power and the resources, the wherewithal, that we may be in the consciousness of the enjoyment of the relationship. It just tests our hearts: how much is the relationship enjoyed by us during the week and in the circumstances of daily life. Do we resort to living like ordinary people who are living in the flesh and being carried about by various circumstances that test us, or are we consciously in the sense that we have been brought into the full liberty and joy of the dispensation as a son of God and given the Spirit of His Son in our hearts?

D.B.R. Someone referred to changing your outlook; I think it would also change our taste. If we were really in the enjoyment of sonship, it would change our taste. You were speaking about things that are testing, but it might be things that are pleasing that we give way to, what is pleasing to the flesh. I wonder if that is really Romans 8; “but if, by the Spirit, ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live”, (v 13). Would that be the life of sonship?

R.T. I think so and the Lord’s words, “I do always the things that are pleasing to him”, John 8: 29. As you say, there are many things that may please us, places that we may be drawn into and things that may attract us, but is it the way that a son of God would behave? But he says, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”. I think the leading of the Spirit of God is forward, leading to the land. That section in Romans 8 is the antitype to Numbers 21 where they come, through the brazen serpent, to a springing well and from that moment they journey forward into the land. I think that is what is happening here: “for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”. So it is not only that you are a son of God as that name having been named upon you, but you are led: “these are sons of God”, persons who are walking in a different path, walking under divine direction and leadership of the Spirit.

W.L. This does not contradict Galatians – “ye are all God’s sons by faith …”, but is this something further, “these are sons of God”?

R.T. I think this supports Galatians. In Galatians we get the light of it and we need the light of it. I think it liberates our younger brethren, and it needs to come into the gospel. The light of the present day is not only that our sins are forgiven, but we are called to sonship, and now how is that going to be worked out? Well, it brings us into another relationship; it brings us into being led by the Spirit of God.

W.L. “These are sons of God”, would that be characteristic?

R.T. So they are identifiable. You can see them. As has been said, they are not drawn by their own desires, but they are led by the Spirit. Now, where is the Spirit of God moving? Well, He is moving among the people of God. It brings us into an area of protection and of forward movement through this world. It says, “these”. As our brother read it, he emphasised that, “these are sons of God”. So they are seen to be sons of God.

D.S-l. In chapter 7 you despair, “O wretched man that I am!” (v 24), but in chapter 8, you come through to saying, I am a son of God. Mr Darby wrote his hymn in the singular:

“And is it so, I shall be like Thy Son?”

R.T. I think the fact of it laying hold of us draws us into this realm and casts us on the Spirit. How are these features of my high calling going to be displayed? Well, it says, “for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”. The substantiality of what we were reading of in Galatians is seen in these persons who are moving forward to the land. I think a son of God does not walk aimlessly. He has an objective and that objective is pleasing the Father, but it is leading on to the land, the area of divine blessing where the thoughts of God are enjoyed, and, I think, it leads among the saints.

J.S. Is that why he uses the pronoun, “we”. In the previous chapter it is “I”, but here it is the collective thought. What would you say about that?

R.T. I think it is very good to call attention to that. It is very much enjoyed collectively. The resources of it are proved individually, but think of a company of the sons of God being together! What an occasion it would be! This scripture brings in the power of the relationship seen in persons, “these are sons of God”. So what we had in Galatians is not a picture on the wall, not an abstract idea, but the light of it is something that becomes concrete in the soul, that “these are sons of God”.

R.G. Mr Darby’s hymn was in the singular as was said, and there is that individual exercise that brings us into the knowledge of our place in sonship, but immediately then the Spirit brings us into communion with others so we enjoy what sonship brings us into together.

R.T. So that they moved into the land together?

R.G. That is what I wondered, that it is not an individual exercise then. The individual exercise is something that is basic, you might say, as light dawns in your soul, but then immediately the Spirit comes in and fills you with an appreciation that there are others who have had the same exercise and are now enjoying the same blessed place that God has prepared for them.

R.T. I think it is very fine to have some experience of that. They are led by the Spirit of God. It means He is made room for. That was Numbers 21. They were sons of God in Egypt – “Let my son go, that he may serve me” – a long time in coming to it, but in coming to that springing well, they were unified and they began to sing. Above all things they made a forward movement towards divine purpose. I think there would be a definitiveness about the sons of God so that they are not just believers – they are that - but they are sons of God as led by the Spirit; they have an objective and there is a definiteness in their movements towards that objective.

R.J.C. What is collective comes out in their response too, “whereby we cry, Abba, Father”. There seems to be a suited state, formation in the believer in sonship, so together we can cry, “Abba, Father”.

R.T. That is a very beautiful expression of deep feeling and it is something which has been pent up in the son’s soul, you may say, and there comes a point when we cry, “Abba, Father”.

R.J.C. In Galatians it is the Spirit that cries, but here there seems to be some formation in sonship in the believer so that we can cry. We come into the full enjoyment of sonship in that relationship.

R.T. I think it brings up the close link there is with the Spirit. It is like, “the Spirit and the bride say, Come”, Rev 22: 17. The Spirit is crying, as you say, in Galatians but here there is a close link with the Spirit and we cry, “Abba, Father”. The expression is full of an admiring kind of spirit in the soul, “Abba, Father”.

R.G. This is the only company that uses the terms, “Abba, Father”, for all eternity.

R.T. You had better say more about that.

R.G. It is just what we have learned. There are other families in heaven and other families on earth, but none of them will be able to use the words, “Abba, Father”. It is only those that have understood the depth of feeling that was expressed in Christ as He came here and did what He accomplished, and then the Spirit coming and filling those that are sons in this relationship, that will be able to use these two words, “Abba, Father”.

R.T. I think what you say magnifies the dispensation. The assembly now knows sonship into which we have been brought in a fuller way than any other family. Angels know something about it, and Israel will know something about it. In fact, they had it first, “whose is the adoption”, Rom 9: 4. But here, what grace, what an expression of the Father’s heart of love, that we, outcasts and strangers like Mephibosheth, have been brought into this time of sonship and into the joy of it that exceeds what will be in any other family!

G.C.McK. Does it help to see that it is not a formal word for Father. It is a simple, intimate word. Is that touching to the heart?

R.T. Very good, so they are two different languages, are they not? You may say, in whatever language, they all have the same Father. They are brought into this – it is not translated – simple liberty and joy. It is an expression of deep devotion, is it not?

D.B.R. Say what your impression is as to how the Spirit would lead.

R.T. It is past Romans 7 here. I think the Spirit comes to a point where He does not need to contend for His place. That takes a long time in our lives, and it is never absent in a sense, but I think we come to a point where the Spirit is in the lead instead of the flesh, instead of, as you say, desires for some things that may not be spiritual. The Spirit has a greater sphere of influence in our hearts so that we are ready to follow into the realms of divine blessing.

D.B.R. That is helpful. Chapter 6 deals with the world and chapter 7 deals with ourselves. It involves the clearing of things inwardly, making way for this. Do you think it might be something like following the man with the pitcher of water? I wondered if ministry would be one way in which the Spirit would show His leading. There would be other others, no doubt, but do you think that would be right?

R.T. Yes, and he leads into a large upper room, furnished. So I think we need to be helped to afford the Spirit greater liberty. Does He need to be always contending for His place? It speaks about that earlier in the chapter, “For they that are according to flesh mind the things of the flesh; and they that are according to Spirit, the things of the Spirit”, Rom 8: 5. There comes a time in our lives when we are giving Him greater place. He is not contending for it, but He is able to open up the treasures of His Master, to lead us into that heavenly land where we are brought in the spirit to liberty to cry, “Abba, Father”.

W.L. I am just enquiring, but when we come to the service of God, it is not exactly the leadership of the Spirit, is it? It is a question of the Lord’s headship and His leadership as Minister of the sanctuary, although the Spirit’s service would complement that, do you think?

R.T. Well, would it not be the Spirit’s leadership first, do you think? Go on, say what you mean.

W.L. Just that. He would lead us to the heavenly land where the Lord as Head can take over in the service of God.

R.T. Though, prior to the Supper, I think the Spirit has a great place with us. As we know, we say we break bread in the wilderness, so this is wilderness: “for as many as are led by the Spirit of God” would be wilderness exercises. But I think that makes room for attraction, makes way for the Lord to have His place and the Spirit’s prominence would recede in that sense. It recedes as the Lord takes over, and the Son has His place, bringing us into the realms of the Father’s love.

W.L. “If therefore the Son shall set you free, ye shall be really free”, John 8: 36.

R.T. I think it is very affecting to have some sense in what we are saying that we are in the hands of divine Persons.

J.D.G. In Numbers 21 they moved from the springing well to the top of Pisgah. I was thinking how the Spirit brings you to that point where you can view the whole land. This gives you a view of that before you come into it.

R.T. As you say, it looks over the land, but verse 20 says it “looks over the surface of the waste”. So you come to a point where you can look back and you do not see the murmurings but you look back and see the way God has led you.

J.D.G. In Numbers 21 it “looks over the surface of the waste”, but in Deuteronomy, when Moses is taken up, he sees the whole land from that point.

R.T. I am glad you have brought that in because I think that is just what we are coming to in sonship. We are coming to Deuteronomy. And it has been said Moses wrote the book of Deuteronomy to teach them manners, and that is what sons are, they are mannerly. They have the manners of the house; they move in the dignity of the house. So think of Moses writing that book: he knew them well. He says, Ye are the sons of Jehovah, in that book. He tells them that is what they are. And he wrote the book so that they might be in the land in the full liberty and the joy of the Father’s love.

J.D.G. Know how to live in that land.

R.T. Know how to live in it, know how to drink those streams, know how to live in a house that you did not build. I think that is what sonship brings us into. The way that Moses speaks of the land, I think, is most beautiful. He says you will drink of wells that you did not dig, you will live in houses that you did not build, you will eat of trees that you did not plant but there is sonship coming into the house. But the leadership of the Spirit makes us suitable, as you say, to have the manners of the house.

J.M. You referred to the wilderness. It says of the Lord Jesus that He was “led by the Spirit in the wilderness”, Luke 4: 2. That footnote is ‘in the power of’ it.

R.T. And there in those circumstances, He was a son. “Man shall not live by bread alone”. Think of the circumstances! Think of sonship coming out in those temptations! Very beautiful! The devil says, you could call that stone to be bread. He says, “Man shall not live by bread alone”. Think of a Son there! How pleasing that must have been to heaven, tempted of the devil in those circumstances, but there is sonship shining in its fulness.

W.M.P. Can I ask about 2 Corinthians 3 where it is “transformed … from glory to glory” (v 18)? There does not seem to be any discontinuity there. I wondered how the service of the Spirit might lead us into the knowledge of the headship of Christ. Can you help as to that passage?

R.T. I think that links on with what has been said as to Numbers 21. There is a chapter in Numbers (33) where it says they went from one place to another. It does not say anything about what happened in some of these places, some terrible things, but it says they went from one point to another point. They were led of the Spirit. As you look back on these things, how God led them forward, and as they come to Numbers 21, the pace is accentuated. They begin to run, not just walking:

On to Canaan’s rest still wending

(Hymn 76)

They get some sense of the power there is to traverse those circumstances quickly and come into a land where sonship can flourish.

C.K.R. Here again in Romans 8, “… ye have received a spirit of adoption”. It would imply an intelligence but also entails fulness of heart, the full result and known power of the indwelling Spirit therefore taking the believer forward.

R.T. That is very fine. It comes in in both Galatians and here, that ye might receive it. You receive sonship. God is imparting it in the wealth of His love and here too you are brought into this great realm of blessing: “for as many as are led by the Spirit of God”. God does not just give us the title, but He gives us the resources so that no power should hinder us from crying, “Abba, Father”.

C.K.R. When you on to chapter 15, you receive one another (v 7). That would all help us in our links together, do you think?

R.T. I think that is fine that the sons of God would gravitate to each other. So who are our companions? The sons of God? The company we keep, is it sonship? The company we keep has a great effect upon us and there is certain company we cannot avoid. Mephibosheth was in that. He was in a company he could not avoid, but he did not wash his hair or trim his beard. He kept himself apart from that company. He was there as a son of God. So I think we need to watch our company. “These are sons of God”, not just persons who may profess something, but persons who express that they are led by the power of the Spirit.

W.L. Would Rebecca help there? A feature of sonship, “I will go” (Gen 24: 58), and that leadership of the Spirit there in type, and she had too companions on the way leading to the heavenly man.

R.T. Well, Rebecca makes full use of the camels, divine provision that God has provided in His love. I think she must have wondered what they were there for to begin with, but she saw that there was a power there to transport her into the embrace of the heavenly man. “These”, persons that are led, “these are sons of God”.

Well, may we just speak of Mephibosheth for a moment? He allowed sonship to lay hold of him. The thoughts of David about him were more than he could ever have imagined. He as much as said, I will just lead my life quietly. I will not cause any trouble. We say our sins are forgiven, we have a sense of how feeble we are, and would just take a back seat as it were, but that is not David’s thought about him. He says, “thou shalt eat bread at my table continually”. He allowed the wealth of sonship to lay hold of him so when the crisis comes, you see there a son, a son in adversity, a son displaying the features of sonship when all around were pleasing themselves.

J.T.B. I was just thinking of that scripture you referred to in Deuteronomy chapter 8 where it says, “thou shalt eat bread without scarceness” (v 9). That is really the wealth of sonship that Mephibosheth comes into in David’s house.

R.T. It is interesting what has come up as to the leadership of divine Persons and the Lord having His place and leading us to “eat bread at my table continually”. That is where we are nourished. It is where sonship is nourished. There is nothing to nourish Mephibosheth in those other circumstances, but he is prepared to leave them. Are we prepared to leave the circumstances? The Spirit leading us would bring us from one set of circumstances into the enjoyment of another. So it says, “And he bowed himself, and said, What is thy servant, that thou shouldest look upon such a dead dog as I am?” But that did not hinder him from eating at the king’s table continually.

G.C.McK. Is it touching that David said, “for I will certainly shew thee kindness for Jonathan thy father’s sake”? Really, it is for another’s sake that we come into all this. Does that assure it to our hearts, that really Christ has drawn this all out?

R.T. I have wondered about that.

G.C.McK. We had no claim for ourselves, but it is God’s thoughts as to Christ and His value for Christ that lie behind everything.

R.T. That is very fine so you can understand him saying, “What is thy servant, that thou shouldest look upon such a dead dog as I am?” But the wealth of David’s affection for him enables him to rise above the state of things though he felt it. Humility is always there, but he allowed the wealth of David’s thoughts to lay hold of him, and he ate bread at the king’s table.

D.B.R. Is it a complete transfer in that way? It says he dwelt at Lodebar, as you were saying. Is that really what God intends for the believer that there is a complete transfer from one system into another system?

R.T. Yes, indeed, and to prove the resources of that system. Hannah says, He has taken us from the dung-hill and set us among nobles (1 Sam 2: 8), and she proved the resources of that system in the bringing in of a man-child. And so Mephibosheth proved the resources of that system. Even when all around are despising David, he would not make himself comfortable where his lord was not. I think that is what is conveyed in that expression, he “neither washed his feet, nor trimmed his beard, nor washed his clothes, from the day the king departed”. There is Mephibosheth in outward circumstances - his loyalty. This is another feature of sonship that they are loyal, loyal to the Father, and there is a man who was loyal to David. What pressures must have been put upon him! Mephibosheth, you can surely just do this! Very insidious the enemy’s efforts to bring us away from the ground of true sonship.

R.J.C. Was he settled in sonship? Thinking of what has been said I was going to refer to verse 13 of chapter 9, “So Mephibosheth dwelt in Jerusalem; for he did eat continually at the kings’ table”. We should come into that and be settled in sonship and that would govern our activities, as you have read later on.

R.T. It was the best place to be. It was where the thoughts of God’s love were to be enjoyed, so it would connect with the local meetings, the best place to be, whatever night of the week it is. It is where the sons would gravitate. It is where the Spirit of God is leading us to, but it is where the sons would gravitate and he would not make himself comfortable in other circumstances because he showed he was loyal. Whatever they were saying about David, he was displaying that he was loyal to the rejected king.

W.L. Does he show consistency too? Chapter 9 and then a long terrible history until chapter 19, and he is still loyal and consistent.

R.T. It is very fine to see a man like that. I think it has been remarked that he was one of the Ephesians of the Old Testament. The light had shone in his soul and wherever you put him, he is the same. He is loyal to his lord. He is a son of God. What this must have meant to heaven! David did not appreciate it in the setting of things, but what is must have meant to heaven to see persons who are not making themselves comfortable or adjusting their circumstances or their thoughts or their conduct to what is around them, but they are in the joy of sonship within, loyal to a departed Lord and Saviour.

R.G. That expression, “Let him even take all” signifies there is an area outside every other thing here in this scene, and that is where sonship is enjoyed.

R.T. Well, one feature of sonship is that they are satisfied and they find no greater pleasure than pleasing the Father.

D.B.R. What has just been referred to really is typical of a man who has drunk of one Spirit, not only being led by the Spirit in the wilderness, but drinking of one Spirit. Would that be total satisfaction?

R.T. “Let him even take all”: he had something better. We do not let things go unless we have something better. Well, the light of sonship has brought to us something better and the Spirit of God’s Son in our hearts has given us the power to enjoy something better. Now, let us make room for that, that we may see that the world can confer nothing upon us and though there may be these exercises of maintaining loyalty, we have been brought into an area where we can be satisfied and live in divine favour.

 

GLASGOW

28 August 1999

 

Key to Initials

J.A.Brown, Grangemouth; J.T.Brown, Grangemouth; R.J.Campbell, Glasgow; J.D.Gray, Edinburgh; R.Gardiner, Kirkcaldy; W.M.Grosse, Edinburgh; W.Lamont, Cumnock; G.C.McKay; Glasgow; J.Marshall, Edinburgh; W.M.Patterson, Glasgow; D.B.Robertson, Cumnock; C.K.Robinson, Glasgow; D.A.Steven, Grangemouth, D.Scougal, Edinburgh; J.Spinks, Grangemouth; R.Taylor, Kirkcaldy