FORMATION RESULTING FROM THE LORD’S SUPPER

1 Corinthians 11: 23–34; 2 Corinthians 3: 2–4, 17, 18; 5: 16–21

RT I thought we could profitably at this time look at the Lord’s supper. We generally speak of it as an entrance to the service of God, and that is very blessed, but there is a side of it that we may profitably look at today as forming something in the saints that is corresponding to the features of Christ. The passages in the second epistle may amplify something of that, when we come to speak of the spirit of the new covenant and reconciliation. It is obvious that the Lord has placed the Supper as a key matter in our lives, something that we are all very familiar with, brethren gathering together for the breaking of the bread and drinking of the cup; yet something that has become very misrepresented publicly. It is obvious the Lord had something very special in mind in reaffirming it from the glory to Paul. I thought that may bring the importance of it afresh into our hearts. It says, “the Lord Jesus, in the night in which he was delivered up”. At that point, for Him, death and the sin question that lay ahead was a finished matter in His mind. He was settled about all that. It is clear that He was introducing this occasion, the supper feast, as something that was to mark the saints during His absence. He was looking on to the day that we are in, that through this dispensation there will be continued this memorial, that it may sustain us in something of His own character in the increasingly darkening conditions that we are in. It is very striking that Paul should start there saying that he received it from the Lord, referring also to what He had done “in the night in which he was delivered up”. He saw this as something that was going to continue and there is a special touch of feeling in the way that Paul speaks about it. I think there is an atmosphere, dear brethren, that we need to esteem and value as to the Lord’s supper. It stands on its own in every way, we are not just going to a meeting, but we are gathering with the brethren to something that is very special, as it says, “when ye come together in assembly”. I just fear the danger of the occasion becoming ordinary in our hearts whereas the thought in my mind is that as taking the loaf as it is broken and drinking of the cup, there is something being formed in the saints of the spirit of the new covenant and reconciliation. We will lead on to that as the Lord helps us. Perhaps for the moment we could just think of this occasion as it stands in its uniqueness, the atmosphere of it and the impact it is to have on our minds and on our hearts. We cannot just be casual, dear brethren, at the Lord’s supper or at any meeting. I think there is a need for us to be alerted as to the distinctiveness and the import of something coming into us as we partake of the bread and drink of the cup. The very frequency of it may make it somewhat ordinary in our minds, but the Lord brings this in very particularly and very definitely that in that night He took bread and says, “This is my body, which is for you”. I trust as we proceed that the Lord will bring home to us some fresh meaning in these words that we so often quote, that it may enter into us in a formative way increasingly.

RJC There is no other occasion like the Supper where we prove the Lord’s own presence as He comes in amongst us. It is distinctive in that way, is it not?

RT It is and Paul warns in the chapter that a certain carelessness may come into it and there are certain effects from that. The carelessness that easily comes into something that is frequently done, Paul is warning about that, but I think the charm of the Lord’s words may freshly touch us at this time, “my body”.

NJH In Corinthians, Paul refers to the Lord Jesus, using that title that we may embrace Him directly due to the presence of the Spirit here in the saints.

RT Yes it gives a certain atmosphere about gathering together to the occasion, I am not ruffled. It is something that the Lord has ordered; we have had a lot of help as to the order about it. There is a certain atmosphere provided as the saints come together in response to the appeal of His love as we gather. The emblems help to fix our minds on His body and His blood. The import of that coming to us gives the Lord great liberty as the atmosphere is there, and I think we become very impressionable. The Supper is meant to be a time when our hearts are more impressionable than any other time, through the appeal of His love and His body and blood.

GCMcK It is remarkable then that the Lord not only instituted the Supper, but there is this setting where He gave it to Paul, “For I received from the Lord” and then Paul delivered it to the saints. Does that bring in a special touch underlining as it were the Lord’s interest in the matter continuing and how it ought to affect us?

RT Quite so. It is not anybody who gathers to the Supper; it is persons who come together in assembly. As you say the Lord is putting this in an exclusive position and it was very exclusive in its introduction, “I have desired to eat this passover with you” (Luke 22: 15); now too we have these words here, “my body, which is for you”; not for everyone, but it is for those who have been drawn to Him in response to the appeal of His love in this special occasion.

CKR You have referred to atmosphere. We have been taught that rule would precede that. Is there an element where we also require to be settled as to our links with the Lord in the area of Lordship as being preparatory to any atmosphere around us?

RT Yes, and with one another. 1 Corinthians 10 brings up our relations with one another and with the Lord. We are gathered together on this occasion with everything settled.

He brings that in here too, “let a man prove himself”. We are gathered together in very holy surroundings. As we gather in the room the loaf is there and the cup and the brethren, persons who have been drawn to this blessed Person. I think it provides an atmosphere for our hearts to be impressionable, not restless, but we are there in response to a well-known love, and respect for one another, so that our hearts may take in this appeal of His own words, “my body, which is for you”.

WL In Acts 9, there is that direct communication from the Lord to Paul to go into the city, “and it shall be told thee what thou must do”, Acts 9: 6. Would that not be among the brethren, laying a foundation for this more advanced matter, do you think?

RT Yes, we are not together with strangers at the Supper, it is a family matter. We know each other and we love each other. Things should be settled with us, and all our relationships be happy when we are coming together to the Supper. It is an affront to the Lord if it is not. Paul goes on to that, but I thought there was a special appeal in that, in that night the Lord Jesus. One who is well-loved arranged this occasion. It was not something that came in afterwards, but at the very outset He introduced this occasion, and I specially wondered if we could just think on His own words, “my body, which is for you”. The “you” would be those who were there, they would be persons who were of the assembly, and He is saying, “This is my body, which is for you”. It is there to be appropriated, not just something historical, but it is there to be appropriated, so that there is something developed in us that is in correspondence with that body.

GCMcK It does not say “given for you”. It was given, how blessed a matter; but “for you” brings it up as you say for appropriation. We should really lay hold of that as we appropriate it and be formed by it.

RT Yes, very beautiful, “my body, which is for you”, that we were in His heart. Think of the days of His flesh and the movements of that body, and there it is, “for you”. I was specially thinking of His obedience. It is one thing outstanding about Christ, while everything is perfectly blended. His obedience stands out. It says about Him, “the obedience of the one” (Romans 5: 19); I wondered if there was some appeal in the body of an obedient One “for you”, that it may bring about some obedience in us. I think the whole matter that Paul is bringing up here is that there is something to be wrought in the saints in correspondence with Christ. This occasion, above all others, dear brethren, should be in our minds that it may do that. We have readings, reading the scriptures and the ministry, studying and prayer, but there is something in this occasion that, if we make room for it, has the effect of bringing about in us some correspondence to that body which we appropriate.

RG Do you think that each week would remind us that there was a body prepared, “thou hast prepared me a body” (Hebrews 10: 5), in which He said, “Lo, I come to do thy will”, Hebrews 10: 9?

RT What features have come into display in Him, the Man of the gospels comes into our minds, but to think of that being “for you”. It was for the Father, but think too of the holy movements, the footsteps of His love for our contemplation. Here it is now, He is putting it in that condensed form, “my body, which is for you”. We may think it is for others, it is not exactly the sin question, but it is feeding on the holy worth of that blessed One. It is His inwards, His body “for you”.

JCG The previous chapter as to fellowship brings in the “communion of the body of the Christ” and it leads on to “we, being many are one loaf, one body”, 1 Corinthians 10: 16, 17. That would give us a sense of the dignity and glory of what the assembly is as for Christ as He comes amongst us, do you think? Do we need to strive in relation to this matter of the “communion of the body of the Christ”?

RT Well, “This is my body, which is for you—this do in remembrance of me”, helps us to be exclusive. The elements are very simple and yet they have great meaning. They would help to fix our minds and our affections as well, “this do in remembrance of me”. So there is some correspondence through the partaking, the eating and the drinking, there is some conformity in the personnel to what has been expressed in that body.

JSp Would it strengthen us in our committal to the will of God as we feed on that?

RT I think that is what it does, it shuts out my will and that has a softening effect. The Supper, rightly apprehended, helps to negate the working of our own wills, “my body, which is for you”. The hymn says,

‘Holy vessel of God’s pleasure

In His service day by day’. (Hymn 30)

It is not a picture, it is not something far off, it is “for you”. He brings it very close home to us. What you bring up is something that is in my mind, that it produces another will. His will was to do the Father’s will, and I think that we should expect that, in feeding on this body, the eating is bringing us under the influence of another will.

TDB Would we come together as expectant?

RT Well we should come together ready, expectant as you say. I think as we are, as we have some sense of the holiness and the majesty of the occasion, we would help to contribute to the atmosphere—so that we are ready for an impress. It is a great feature of the new covenant that persons are impressed. Paul speaks in the second scripture that we read of the “fleshy tables of the heart”. I think that they are being touched and being formed by the Supper, and what has been referred to as taking on that will, makes us impressionable. If my will is active I am not impressionable, but as we feed on Him that did the will of God, there is a fleshy table, an impressionable state, that can respond to the appeal of His love.

TDB I was thinking of what you said about assembling, the dignity of that.

RT There is a holiness about the keeping of the Lord’s supper. The Lord is very jealous about it too and it has come into disorder publicly. All sorts of things have been added to and taken from it, but it stands here in its simplicity, its charm, in the way that Paul tells us that he received it from the Lord. The Lord intervened especially from the glory. He did not leave it as it was in the gospels, but intervened from the glory and gave it to Paul, to show us the importance of being rightly expectant in gathering for this holy occasion.

RJC In Acts 20 it says, “we being assembled to break bread” (Acts 20: 7). There was a specific purpose in the coming

together, and that was to break bread.

RT Yes, “in remembrance of me”. Think of what is to happen, dear brethren, that in this world where He is cast out and rejected, there are persons who are coming together “in remembrance of me”; His name is being upheld. It has been well said in ministry, that if the world really knew what we were doing it would not allow us. There are persons gathering together, upholding the name of the One whom the world has rejected, because they love Him, and are seeking to provide a response and an answer to the appeal of His love, “this do in remembrance of me”, in His absence.

GCMcK He says that twice in Corinthians, but in the gospels once only. Here He says it in connection with the bread and the cup, why is that?

RT I think it is to reinforce the need for Him to be kept before us. In the darkening world and the influences that are abroad against us, if He is held in remembrance we have something solid in our souls, we have a point of reference, we have some rock against the stream and power of the world, as this Person is held in our hearts. Not remembrance in the sense of someone who is dead, but “remembrance of me” involves that He is a living Person who has died. He has taken the power of death out of the enemy’s hands; the world is still held under its power but there are persons gathering in remembrance of Him. There is nobody to compare with Him. He stands out in His uniqueness in the hearts of His own.

CKR Could you say something on where we can get the gain of the Spirit’s service? It is so important and yet such a short period of time actually in the meeting. Yet you are emphasising that there is potential in that particular period, which must be as we give ourselves to the Holy Spirit’s service in us as an inward matter.

RT When you go back to Luke’s gospel, the Lord instructs them to follow the man with the pitcher of water; it is an allusion to the Spirit. He says, “And he will shew you a large upper room furnished”. I think as you give room to the Spirit in our exercises day by day, and would humbly seek His guidance, there will be this atmosphere when we come together. He will lead you to “a large upper room furnished—there make ready”, Luke 22: 12. I think the Spirit has, through these dark days, maintained persons who would seek to be in correspondence with Christ.

DBR I think the Spirit’s service in that way would show that what takes place through the whole week has the Supper in mind. We sometimes sing, ‘Oft has the Comforter spoken of Thee’ (Hymn 4). I think that is of value; the Spirit would always have that occasion in mind. I think it is the most important occasion as you are saying, it gives character and colour to the whole week. In one sense everything that takes place in the week would lead forward to the Supper, do you think?

RT Yes and I think the reference to the Spirit is interesting in that way. He is serving and He is guiding persons who can be together for this great occasion. That large upper room furnished shut out a great deal, did it not? As the saints are together there is a great deal shut out, but there are hearts that are impressionable, ready to be impressed with His own words and His own touch, as we break the bread and eat it and drink the cup.

JDG In Leviticus 8 there are the days of our consecration which goes on for seven days. Our brother has brought up as to our continuing through the week. I just thought that feeding on the second ram, the ram of consecration, was feeding on Christ, and bringing Him before God too.

RT Well that is something we should think about. The time passes very quickly, and because of the conditions we are in, we quickly revert to ordinary things, without allowing the impress of what is there that would hold us consecrated going back into other circumstances. But going back into them as having eaten this bread and drunk this cup, there is a resource and something of character developed on the part of the saints that can be sustained amidst the darkness of the world.

WL There is the rest of the Lord’s day and our activities, whatever they may be, are they also governed by the Supper?

RT Yes, I think so. We want to leave it like that, it is the Lord’s day. We do not go off on holiday on Lord’s day. These things are coming in and I just mention it in passing; but if the savour of the great occasion laid hold on us I think it would guide us for the whole day and for the whole week. The Lord has ordered the occasion and has set it there in its distinctiveness. I think what has come up as to the whole week is something that we should bear in mind. There is something impressed on the fleshy tables of the heart that is developing another character in the believer, that makes him joyful and restful in his links with God and with the brethren.

DBR I think “This is my body” presents a very substantial thought. I thought the Spirit would help us to feed on the qualities of Christ’s manhood. You could hardly think of the Lord’s body being held in any day of the week apart from the will of God when He was here. That is to affect us, do you think?

RT The hymn-writer says, ‘To thy Father’s will obedient’ (Hymn 422), and I think appropriating that body works out in obedience in me. The Lord Jesus in every step of His path was in perfect communion and relationship with His Father, and I think that is what this feeding on the body and drinking the blood would do. It would bring us into increased liberty, and develop us in our relationship with the Father, and with one another. It is something produced that is pleasing to Him.

HP In Exodus 21 regarding the bondman saying “I will not go free”. Would that have an effect on the way we are eating and drinking? Remembering these words, “I will not go free” and “he shall be his bondman for ever”.

RT It says about his body there, “I love my master, my wife, and my children, I will not go free”. Think of how they would appreciate that body as they would hear him say that. Well, dear brethren, we are thinking about Him, the way He went, “my body, which is for you”. It must, if it is rightly apprehended, have an effect, and I would plead, dear brethren, that we give time for it to have a lasting effect on our own bodies. There was a body that was wholly devoted to the Father’s will and consecrated as we have been speaking about it. We have to go into other circumstances, but as we have been feeding on this body, and have been impressed on those fleshy tables of the heart, so there is a new character coming into display in us in every step of the way.

DTP The passover was eaten in haste, but is there a restfulness in partaking of the Lord’s supper because in doing so we are waiting for an impression from Himself, and that comes, does it not, as we are together in a subject way?

RT We do not agree with transubstantiation, but think of what is involved in the loaf, “my body”. As you partake of the bread and drink the cup there is something entering into you of One that was devoted entirely to the Father’s will, and lived here in circumstances like we are in, in perfect holy relationship with His Father.

JSp Peter speaks about “by sanctification of the Spirit, unto the obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ”, 1 Peter 1: 2. That is obedience that is motivated by love, like the Hebrew bondman.

RT Yes, very good. I like the suggestions as to the Spirit coming in, and I think He would very readily join in helping those fleshy tables of the heart to be produced so that there is an impress left of the character of that body. We know He was unique, but what came into expression in His body is to have some reflection as it is taken on by these fleshy tables of the heart.

GCMcK It is remarkable that the solemn side that follows is that there are persons guilty, not in relation to the loaf and the cup, but in respect of the body and the blood of the Lord.

The import of these things cannot be disregarded.

RT No, they cannot. Paul brings in that section as a certain guard to carelessness entering in. As I say it is something that we have seen from our youngest days and maybe there is room for the import to be freshly apprehended by us of that body. The eating and drinking is to produce something in us that is responsive to Him, so that we are ready to be lead on into what flows from the Supper. We may say some very fine things after the Supper, but the persons who say them are the important part. There is character in the persons; we have some lovely hymns, but the persons who sing the hymns and the persons who say the words is the important part. There is something there in them that is in accord with that body.

WW I was going to ask if Hebrews 10 bore on what we are saying, where the writer refers to Psalm 40 and goes on to say, “by which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all” (Hebrews 10: 10)? Would the thought of that great offering, and also in chapter 9, “who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God” (Hebrews 9: 14), when we think of what that involved, help us to be more morally like Him, characteristically like Him now?

RT Yes, well that is basic. We have been set apart by that body and I think that brings us into the area where we can be impressionable. So it is a question of our minds and our hearts entering into it; remembrance has to do with our minds, but the loaf helps to concentrate our minds on “my body”, and our affections too, so that we are ready to take on impressions, and something of the character that these impressions would produce, in view of being here as a testimony to Him.

CKR What would be the significance then of the new covenant being linked with the cup?

RT I thought it brings in liberty. It is a remarkable thing that before the millennium Israel will have this. Before they enter into the millennium and the joy of the reign of the Lord, they will have the new covenant in its entirety. We have the spirit of it so there might be something of millennial features formed in us now by it, “this cup is the new covenant in my blood”. It is to reassure our hearts of the nearness into which we are brought to God. We do not enter into the new covenant in the legal side of it; we do not need a covenant, we are brought into family relationships. Covenant implies distance, but the Spirit and the character of the new covenant is there for us, it is “my blood”. It is not on tables of stone, it is not written down, but it is there in “my blood”, bringing out the appeal of His love that would bring us into these holy blessed relationships, knowing something of peace and the enjoyment of divine love.

RJC There is a wonderful privilege connected with the Supper, is there not, and our part in it that would bear on our looking and waiting for Christ to come in? What it means when He comes in and stimulates the affections as appropriating Him! I wondered too if there is a tremendous responsibility in being at the Supper, do you think?

RT There is; privilege helps us about that. It is not responsibility in an onerous sense but it would be in a respectful sense. It is the body and blood of the Lord. The eating and the drinking makes us responsive to the Lord as He comes in; everything is settled and happy in relationships, and there is some impress of Himself on us, so He says, “Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away!”, Song of Songs 2: 13.

WMP There is a reference to “he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one”, Hebrews 2: 11. It is a very precious thought that there are those who are like Him and whom He can associate with Himself in that forward movement.

RT Well this helps us so that we are at home. I think it is a great feature of this eating and drinking that we are settled and brought into new relationships, and we are ready for what the Lord may bring us into because there is something impressed. The new covenant will be written in their minds, “Giving my laws into their hearts, I will write them also in their understandings”, Hebrews 10: 16. There is a new character, a new way of thinking, a new object before the soul as well. There is something new developed that is suited to the divine mind.

WL What importance do you give to the public aspect of the Supper?

RT It says here, “ye announce the death of the Lord”; I think it is very important that there are persons here in accord with it. They have something of the same features of the Man whom the world has rejected, and they are expressing their loyalty and allegiance to the rejected One. Is that what you had in mind?

WL Yes. There is in our experience, both the private side in the remembrance, and the public side in the announcing, do you think?

RT Yes, I think the private side is to charm us and to build us up, to fortify us. We could perhaps look at the Supper in that way as fortifying us so that the announcement is true.

It is not an announcement of a broken body, it is an announcement of something that is very precious. It is interesting that following the Supper in 1 Corinthians 11, we have chapter 12 which is the body, and following that in chapter 13 we are to follow after love. In chapter 14 we have the body in function; in chapters 15 and 16 we have the giving of the saints. We see assembly features developed from chapter 11, a new character of things coming into expression, persons living in a different way. I think that is what is looked for in us, dear brethren; there are persons who are living differently, and the core of it is in eating this bread and drinking this cup.

GCMcK In being manifested to be Christ’s epistle, the thought is very complete in Christ and the saints. Just following what you are saying, what has been developed in the saints is not simply an impression of Christ; being manifested to be Christ’s epistle seems to suggest a complete setting forth that men can take account of, does it not?

RT That is helpful, so there is a continuation of Christ, there is an expression of Him, and I think the secret of it and the power for our expression is in having eaten the bread and drunk the cup of the Lord. Do you agree with that?

GCMcK Yes.

RT So Paul is bringing up here that there is a manifestation. These persons are so different. Where is the secret? I think it is something to treasure, dear brethren. There is a secret of power, and of blessing too, that we know and experience and value, so that what comes in is transformation. It speaks in Romans about being conformed to the image of His Son. I think the Supper has something of that in mind, in the eating and drinking there is conformity to that image. It is a gradual process, but I think if we make room for it, it is something that is taking place, thank God, by the Spirit’s grace; week by week there is something of being conformed to the image of His Son. So here we get the word ‘transformed’; if you are transformed you do not go back. The Supper and its experience, the impress of it is something cumulative; we do not go back but there is transformation into something better.

DBR What is the thought of, “written, not with ink, but the Spirit of the living God”?

RT The Supper would make us impressionable for the writing which is engraven on our hearts.

DBR It is permanent and abiding and thus becomes manifest as Christ’s epistle.

RT So we are new covenant persons. These two things, the new covenant and reconciliation, will settle everything as we are formed by them. Indeed much would not arise. New covenant persons do not quarrel, they are formed in the grace of Christ and are able to meet every difficulty. If this is written on our hearts it will be a formidable barrier against the intrusion of evil among us, would you say?

DBR At the beginning of the recovery, brethren were quite interested in dates when certain events would take place, but especially through the ministries of Mr. Stoney and Mr. Raven, what was brought out was the importance of being morally affected by the truth. I thought that would be the writing. That really brings about the change, do you think?

RT Yes, I think so, what was referred to as Christ’s epistle. It is to be seen, dear brethren; the new covenant is to be seen in you and in me, and as that is

so, something is demonstrated that is not working on the line of demand. The great feature of the new covenant is supply, there is an infinite resource and supply available, and it is in persons who have been eating and drinking.

JCG It says, “where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty”. That must involve where the assembly personnel are particularly, would it be? What would you say about that, “where the Spirit of the Lord is”? It would involve making way for the Spirit’s service would it?

RT I think the new covenant is a great feature of the Spirit having liberty. It brings in in the intervening section about Moses that the tables were put into the ark, but today the tables would be in persons. There are persons who are coming under the influence of the new covenant so the Spirit is not striving, but the Spirit is quickening; the Spirit has great liberty as this transformation is effected, there is a change taking place so that we are doing things differently. We are not reverting to anything that is not in keeping with the body or the blood of the Lord, but things are done differently, and there is a power of supply of divine grace so that things are maintained at their true level.

NJH The second set of tables were different from the first, were they not? They were the product of what was mediatorial. Is that how things are lasting in our time? You do not generally link tables with the heart, but that was how God worked it out here in persons who remain constant, is that right?

RT Yes, there was no place to put those tables when Moses brought them down; they were in his hand and he put them in the ark. There is Someone in whom the will of God has been fulfilled, but the effect of that is that there are hearts here who are able for the Spirit of the new covenant. God’s disposition is laying hold of persons so that they are transformed from one way of doing things into another. It says, “are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit”.

DCB Is “looking on the glory of the Lord” here especially as the Mediator of the new covenant? It is just in the context that it is brought in, in the chapter, which suggests that is what is in mind, while we may be transformed, and no doubt are, as looking in other ways, but to see the fulness of what is established in Him in relation to the new covenant would transform us.

RT Yes, and the glory shining in the face of the Mediator, the basis is laid for God to be at home with His people. He has taken away the stony tables and He has brought in something else; He has brought in a new basis in the Mediator in a Man, the Lord Jesus, the One who said, “my body, which is for you”. He has brought in a new basis for God’s love to shine in its fulness and radiancy, and to shine in our hearts in view of transformation.

WL He speaks about the glory of the Lord and he goes on to speak of “from glory to glory”. What do you understand about that?

RT It is not a doctrine but an experience. There is something going on, there is conformity, is there not? There is a reflection of that glory as we look on it, and as eating the bread and drinking the cup there is an impressionable state to look on that glory with unveiled face, ‘Not a cloud above—not a spot within’ (Hymn 22). We look on that glory and it is transforming and it goes on and on; it will go on to the translation I suppose.

WL You see the tremendous scope in “from glory to glory”.

RT The brethren are getting more glorious week by week. There is something in them that is cumulative. Well, dear brethren, is it so? Are we enjoying this for ourselves, and are we seeing it in the local company, in our gatherings, so that we are not overcome, but there is transformation taking place “from glory to glory”, no going back. There is something being wrought in the saints that is ready for the final touch of translation. What is being wrought will be housed in a new body, a body of glory, it will be then like to His own body of glory.

JCG It would bear very much on shining, that was stressed in Exodus 34, the skin of Moses’ face shone. That would bear on what impression we get as Christ comes amongst us, whether it reflects on us? That is a big challenge, is it, as to what we see?

RT Well that is very beautiful in our Mediator, the glory of God shining in His face; but it is interesting about Moses, it says his face shone through his talking with Him, his communion. That is what the new covenant brings us into; it brings us into holy communion, free and at liberty with God, and He with us, so that there is an impressionable state for taking on His glory. I think it is of note what we have said that it is going on until it is finally housed in bodies of glory.

CKR That will help us to enter into My brethren, My assembly. I was just thinking of being held in relation to the glory of a blessed Man who desires to bring us into a relationship with Him and the full enjoyment of it.

RT Yes, “to be conformed to the image of his Son”, Romans 8: 29. God has no other standard for the brethren, “according to the same image” and here it is. It is very simple when you think about it at the Supper; He is leading on to something of that effect, something formative to the image of His Son, so as you say it is My brethren and My assembly. How He loves to own them and there is no disparity.

NMcK I have just been wondering regarding what you have said about formation, that we are formed at the Supper. We often think formation takes place in the wilderness, but there is the side of things that we are affected by heavenly things and are formed according to them. It must be that we are formed by ordinary things as well as heavenly things. I was thinking of what was said about the ram of consecration and the seven days. I would like to get some help on it.

RT I think there is nothing like the atmosphere of the Supper to form us; it is not only in our minds but it is in our hearts. The new covenant is in our minds and in our hearts, so it does not go away when the hour is past. There is something there, I think that has been referred to helpfully, that sustains us; we need to think about it, we are to ponder it, we are to treasure it. How that glory would be treasured as it was realised, and you would be watchful that nothing would mar that glory. You would not go into places that are not suited to that glory; consecration involves that you have a glory upon you that excludes you from many things, but includes you into a wonderful realm, “from glory to glory”.

JPM Does the singing help in that way, giving the atmosphere? The hymns that we have, they have been wonderfully penned.

RT It is the words that are most important. Singing is very beautiful but think of the words as you are singing. These words that I have quoted already, ‘obedience to His Father’s will’; there are some beautiful expressions in our hymns. The singing unites us and provides an atmosphere for forming us increasingly into this same image, “transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit”. It is not through mental application, it is not falling back on something of man; we are brought into a scene where God is operating powerfully in producing something of His own character in the saints.

JPM Would sonship be the final glory as it were?

RT The standard of sonship is seen in Christ, and sonship is one of the glories that is seen in the saints. That would all connect with “glory to glory”.

WL Sonship is the ultimate, is it not?

RT Yes, we are to be “conformed to the image of his Son”. The drinking of the new covenant, the spirit of it, formed in our hearts, makes way for peace in my soul, it makes way for peace among the saints, it makes way for this glory to be proceeding to some permanent change in the believer.

HP Would these things that you are speaking about be very close to the moment of translation? I only thought that the moral side would be really in accord with the Lord’s coming.

RT How near are we to the moment of translation? It is imminent, and this is what is going to be translated, persons who have been feeding on that body and drinking that cup, taking on glory to glory. Translation is not a rescue operation to take us away from breakdown; translation is to take persons who are already formed after Christ into the abode of God’s holiness.

HP It would support from glory to glory, would it not?

RT Yes, indeed it would. As I say, it is imminent.

WL Every believer will be taken then, but there must be something very precious to the Lord to take persons in whom these things are formed spiritually.

RT He is looking for persons who are ready. It says about the five virgins, that the ones who were ready went in. I think the Supper is to keep us alert, to keep us in some impression of that glory, and preserve us from defilement. If we have the sense of the glory, there are some things we would not do, there are some things we would not say. We are formed in heavenly manners in the new covenant and taking on glory.

DBR You had something to say to us about reconciliation.

RT We could have read other scriptures about the doctrine of reconciliation but here we get the experience of it, “if any one be in Christ, there is a new creation”. There is something there that is entirely in accord with the Father, is there not? It is all of the God who has reconciled us to Himself. It says He has put in us the word of that reconciliation, the word of it. I thought that refers to something formed. There is something expressed in the persons that they are in happy holy communion in relationships with God, would you say?

DBR That is all for God’s pleasure. We have been retained for that, retained for God’s pleasure. You will remember that Mr. Taylor said, reconciliation involves that men are made like Christ. How could it be otherwise if we are to be for God’s pleasure?

RT I think the reconciliation as we are speaking of it here is illustrated in the younger son in Luke 15, with the robe and the ring and the shoes, clothed outside the house, but he has to go in. It is making him suitable for the house. God has reconciled us to Himself; He has

brought us to Himself for His eye to rest upon us in perfect complacency. It is to bring us to be in the house, in that holy sphere where God’s eye is delighting in what is formed of His Son in us.

GCMcK To be reconciled to God as the apostles say, is not the letter of the ministry that is in mind, it is the character of it. That was the intent of all that they were bringing before the saints, is it?

RT I thought so; it says, “putting in us the word of that reconciliation”. It is fine to think that is the saints, they are reconciled, not struggling. The distance is removed, God has done that. It is persons in whom God has wrought, something of His own work brought to be at home in His presence. The word of that reconciliation in us, there is a character formed there that is reflecting God.

CKR Having partaken of the Supper as you are indicating, such persons can be “ambassadors therefore for Christ”.

RT Yes, that is how it goes on. God is rightly represented; the power of the gospel going out from reconciled persons gives power to the preaching, it gives power to the testimony in our lives, and the way things are in our local meetings, they are done by reconciled persons. The great danger is that there are persons who are not in the good of the new covenant and reconciliation handling matters, and there is disaster; but if things are handled at this level it maintains all things in their true perspective, and holds us in a true relationship with God. God has reconciled us to Himself. The joy of that keeps us from reverting to other means so that we are more at home in the presence of God, “God’s righteousness in him”. What a thing to be, “God’s righteousness in him”. You are not vying to maintain your own reputation or anything else, but you are restful in the enjoyment of divine favour and blessing.

DBR Is that really how God is represented? He is represented by persons who are in the gain of reconciliation, do you think?

RT Indeed, it is the only way it can be. You have to be in, to come out, have you not? You have to be formed inside to rightly come outside, so we handle things from the divine viewpoint, in the light of the new covenant and reconciliation, things are handled so that the glory and dignity of the assembly is preserved, and God is glorified in the way things are done by such persons, is He not?

RG Do you think that formation was seen in Paul when he wrote to Philemon? As a reconciled person himself he was able to write to Philemon in relation to Onesimus.

RT Yes, so he says, if there is anything to pay put it to my account. Reconciled persons have infinite resources; new covenant resources are infinite. He says, I will take the blame, I will not stand up and insist on my rights. We do not insist on our rights as we appropriate, “my body”, the obedience of that body. The will of Another being expressed in a saint makes way for happy relations among the brethren, but it makes way for glory to God in the personnel of the assembly here today amidst difficult conditions.

KEY TO INITIALS

T. D. Beveridge

W. Lamont

D. T. Pye

D. C. Brown

G. C. McKay

D. B. Robertson

R. J. Campbell

Neil McKay

C. K. Robinson

R. Gardiner

J. P. Metcalfe

J. Spinks

J. D. Gray

W. Patterson

R. Taylor

J. C. Gray

H. Pfeiffer

W. Wallace

N. J. Henry

Reading at Glasgow
29 November 2003