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THE HELP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

TRC We had a very helpful reading last Saturday in Bo’ness in relation to the coming of the Holy Spirit; so I asked the Lord to direct my thoughts to another field, but when you see the place that the Holy Spirit had in the Lord’s life and journey here, I think He would delight to occupy us again with not only the blessing, but the value of the gift of the Holy Spirit. Mr Coates said, ‘If a man has the Spirit, in one sense he has everything’, CAC vol 32 p169. I asked myself if I really believe that. But it is the truth! The Father’s desire is to give persons His Spirit. In one sense you could say that is why the gospel is preached, that persons are to receive the Father’s Spirit. Our forgiveness and believing on the Lord Jesus and His shed blood must surely precede it, but the Father’s desire is that persons should receive His Spirit. It is interesting to see that if I could give you my spirit you would think the way that I think; you would love the Glasgow brethren for instance, you would love my wife; speaking simply, that is what the Father wants by giving us His Spirit; He wants us to love and appreciate Christ the way that He does.

I was drawn to this scripture in Judges, and it is remarkable that this incident is related twice in the scriptures; it is in Joshua 15, and then it comes in again at the beginning of Judges, and I wondered if we could enquire together in relation to it. Othniel and Achsah are very interesting personages, and Othniel was given, not exactly a challenge, but Caleb said, “He that smites Kirjath-sepher and takes it, to him will I give Achsah my daughter as his wife”. I know that there is an application to the assembly, but I wondered whether we could consider it in relation to a believer. Othniel is one that has overcome the world, and his desire surely would be to be maintained and strengthened in this position. He had a good wife; so Achsah then takes the initiative. She says to Caleb, her father, ‘You have given me a southern land’. Beloved brethren, we have been given a southern land, have we not? As we come into Christianity and believe in the Lord Jesus we come into a southern land; it is a wonderful place of favour. But Achsah was not content with just the title, she wanted the reality of it; she asked for the springs of water. The question was raised last Saturday whether we receive the Holy Spirit automatically and I think you get the answer here. The Father is delighted to give it, but the believer needs to have that sense of need, that they not only need forgiveness, but they need the gift of the Holy Spirit. She got more than she asked for! How blessed! She was given the lower springs and the upper springs. I wondered if we could just consider that.

In my mind I linked the lower springs with John 7 and the upper springs with John 4. The lower springs would relate to what the Spirit does in us down here, and would come out in testimony in a horizontal way. It is in view too of forming in us desires by the upper springs in a vertical way, which would lead to the worship of God. I feel that my exercise has been confirmed by the hymn given out at the beginning, Hymn 408.

APG That is very profitable. You mentioned this passage coming into Joshua, and also into Judges. In Judges it is a time of public breakdown, but the Spirit’s power can still be known in such a time as we are in. Is that why it comes in here again?

TRC That is very helpful, that the Spirit is One that can strengthen and confirm us, and in the days of breakdown how valuable and how needed the Spirit is. The Spirit is power. I thought of the scripture at the end of Luke’s gospel where the Lord says, “but do ye remain in the city till ye be clothed with power from on high”, chap 24: 49. While the Spirit is a divine Person He has come so that He can guide us and direct us; He has power and that is what sustains and directs us in a broken day.

APG The word to Philadelphia is, “thou hast a little power”, Rev 3: 8. It is divine power even in small conditions.

TRC In these references to the Spirit there is the thought of excess and that is from the divine side; the Spirit is poured out (Acts 2: 33), and that is how the Spirit has come, and these references that are before us, rivers and fountains, show it is life and power.

GBG Achsah got more than she asked, and in John 7 it says, “If any one thirst, let him come to me and drink”, that is one thing; but then it says, “out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water”, v 37-38. There is excess again!

TRC That is what struck me in relation to these scriptures; there is no restriction from the divine side. Alas, we find in ourselves as vessels that is where the restriction lies, but we had help last Saturday in relation to the Spirit hovering, and it is the Spirit’s delight that He should gain a place in our vessels, in our affections. From the divine side the Spirit is available.

JTB There is a difference in the two accounts is there not? In Joshua it is “a field” and in Judges it is “the field” as if to suggest that in days of breakdown the truth needs to be supported, and definitively so; so it is “the field”. The upper springs and the lower springs would help us in that respect.

TRC That is very helpful. For us it is the only source of power. Open that up for us.

JTB We need the Spirit in the testimonial setting to defend the truth of separation or whatever the demands are on us; so it is “the field”: it is defined. The truth is defined, and we need to be defensive of it; so “the field” requires the upper springs and the lower springs, to be defended in its heavenly character.

TRC Yes, so the upper springs are in relation to what is our inheritance in worship to God. In that sense, if the lower springs are not functioning rightly our response and worship to God will be affected. I thought the hymn we sang was encouraging -

Spirit of truth, in Thee our minds find rest,

While here in this dark, unresponsive scene; (Hymn 408).

We are in a scene of darkness, but we have the power of the Spirit. My exercise is that we need more than the light of these things: you bring up the question of separation for example, the Spirit would give us help and power to maintain them.

PAG We have been helped to see that the Spirit identified Himself entirely with the Lord when He was here as Man. It was drawn to our attention last week He “descended in a bodily form as a dove” (Luke 3: 22), but He identifies Himself entirely with the assembly now. I am thinking of what our brother said about the field; there is “the field”. The Spirit is not identified with anything else, nor can we identify Him with anything else; therefore it behoves us to respect the authority of the Holy Spirit, do you think?

TRC Yes, and when you think of Matthew 13, the “treasure hid in the field, which a man having found has hid, and for the joy of it goes and sells all whatever he has, and buys that field” (v 44); that is the valuation that the Lord has of the assembly, and as the Spirit has come to indwell that vessel the Spirit would promote that valuation to ourselves.

PAG That is very good and helpful; I am thinking therefore of what it says of the Spirit in Ephesians 1, being “the earnest of our inheritance”, but it is “to the redemption of the acquired possession”, v 14. You have drawn our attention to the fact that the Lord has acquired a possession, and in order that that possession might be kept for His glory and for God’s glory, there is “the earnest of our inheritance”. God is going to come into something of immense value to Him that we can have part in now.

TRC And the Spirit makes things real. I often challenge my own heart; what a privilege we have had, we have been brought up in a good atmosphere, sitting under the sound of ministry and light and the truth, and how easy it is to just assent to it. But the Spirit makes things real and valuable, and I think Achsah in that sense had an appreciation of the field and the southern land, but she wanted it to be a real matter and to enjoy it as well.

JL I suppose it would be true to say that wells have to be dug, but springs are largely given of God, divine resources provided; nevertheless is it important that this element of desire on our part should go along with that: “Give me”. She was desirous that what was available would be given to her, and of coming into the enjoyment of it. There is always this need of desire on our part in relation to taking advantage of what is available in the Spirit.

TRC I think that is fine, and divine Persons will always honour desire. If we desire something in relation to spiritual things, spiritual resource will be made available to us that we might come into these things, and we can have an effect on one another in that sense. In relation to Achsah, it says later of Othniel, “And the Spirit of Jehovah was upon him”, chap 3: 10. I think that that is the first person in scripture of whom it is said that “the Spirit of Jehovah was upon him”. It says, “and he judged Israel; and he went out to war, and Jehovah gave Chushan-rishathaim king of Syria into his hand”. I was thinking of the effect that Achsah had on her husband. No doubt he had right desires, but what a couple they were. Here was one that the Spirit of Jehovah was upon. It is interesting in relation to Kirjath-sepher: how did he take it? There is no thought of any weapons that he used. I think it indicates the kind of man that he was: “the Spirit of Jehovah was upon him”. I think what you say is helpful in relation to desire.

APG So Othniel would be an overcomer, would you say? In the letters to the assemblies the speaking of the Spirit comes following the overcomer in the last four assemblies. Is it overcomers who benefit from the Spirit speaking, would you say?

TRC I think that is right and that tests us, the spirit of the overcomer. The Spirit would help us to overcome, but I think it is on the basis of desire; if we desire these things we will get power, power to overcome.

BWL It is the word of the Lord that is emphasised in Ephesus, and it results in the burning of the books, Acts 19: 19. Do you think there is a link with the ’City of the Book’ (note e) here? And you see “the word of the Lord” increasing and prevailing, Acts 19: 20.

TRC Yes; so in John 7 you see that there are the rivers, and I suppose that might relate to Roman exercises down here; but in John 4, where it is a fountain, I wondered if that is like what we come into in Ephesians; you get what is springing up, “the word of the Lord”. We come into the enjoyment of these wonderful blessings: “through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father”, Eph 2: 18. You have more in mind.

BWL It is the word of God in Corinth; which perhaps may relate more to the lower springs, but it is the word of the Lord that is emphasised at Ephesus, and Paul came there by the upper districts, so that the City of the Book was overcome and then there was tremendous spiritual gain; God’s purpose was taken up and enjoyed by the Ephesian saints.

TRC In our own exercise we need the Spirit’s power to overcome, overcome the world. The Lord says, “I have overcome the world”, John 16: 33. He could do that in His own power, but with us we need the power that is in the Spirit for us, and I think if we have our back to the world the Spirit will then have room and is available to lead us into these precious spiritual things.

NJH The change of name from Kirjeth-sepher did not alter how it had to be overcome. I was thinking of your reference to the Spirit of truth, which comes in in John’s gospel. This scripture says “Has not the scripture said” (John 7: 42); it is what is governing us.

TRC It must be what governs us. It is remarkable in John 7, where the Lord speaks, He says, “If any one thirst, let him come to me and drink. He that believes on me, as the scripture has said”, v 38. The Jews and the scribes might have wondered, ‘Where in the scripture is He referring to?’. In the Old Testament there were rivers; we get them drawn attention to in Genesis, Ezekial, the Psalms, Isaiah; think of these references in scripture. Were they just references to rivers? I do not think so; I think the Spirit of God is showing what is going to come to pass. In Isaiah it says, “I will open rivers on the bare heights, and fountains in the midst of the valleys; I will make the wilderness into a pool of water, and the dry land into water-springs”, chap 41: 18. How blessed that we have such a resource in the world in which we live, which is a dry and dusty land.

NJH David chose five smooth stones to overcome Goliath, 1 Sam 17: 40. It was a brook that the water was in, suggesting the free flow of the Spirit; he drew from that.

TRC That was the source of David’s power; he selected these stones. They had been in the water; how long the waters had coursed over them, but he selected them and that is where the power came from.

GBG We will always need the help of the Spirit; there is a willingness on His side, and I think it is encouraging to appreciate that His love lies behind all of His services.

TRC We do not often speak of the love of the Spirit; so it would be good if you could help us.

GBG The basic thing first of all is that God is love. But then Paul beseeches the brethren in Romans: “I beseech you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the love of the Spirit”, chap 15: 30. I think he beseeches by the compassions of God because he knew the Romans knew and experienced the compassions of God. I think as we meet the point of offering our bodies “a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God” (chap 12: 1), we give scope to the Spirit to operate.

TRC It has been said that these two references in John’s gospel are some of the most testing scriptures, and I feel measured in what I can say as to the depth of them. But what I can see is that the Spirit will operate in all the scope that He is given, and we have these vessels available, and in that sense, they are full of something. In the beginning of the Acts, you get persons that were full of the Holy Spirit. What can I say about that? But it is possible!

JL In addition to love lying behind the service of the Holy Spirit, it very principally enters into the service of the Holy Spirit that He sheds abroad the love of God in our hearts, Rom 5: 5. That is one of the great Christian blessings, is it not?

TRC I think that is very helpful; that is His intention, one of His services to the believer, to shed the love of God abroad in our hearts. Think of what that would mean if that was the case what a change would be in us.

CAMcK Caleb proved this himself. He got to search out the land and when there was doubt on the part of the children of Israel, he and Joshua rent their garments, Num 14: 6. He was really feeling this as the Lord was feeling here. They speak of, “The land, which we passed through to search it out” v 7. They had gone through and seen the extent of it, the love of God had been shed abroad in his heart, it was operative, and they said it was “a very, very good land”. You were speaking about those who we have learned from; I just wondered if, as a father, he would have been able to convey something to his daughter of the value and preciousness of the Holy Spirit’s service, and it is incumbent on us to do that to encourage our younger ones to ask and to receive.

TRC That is very helpful, and we have often been taught that Caleb lived in the land before he got there, and what he saw! Think of these grapes (Num 13: 23); they were the fruit of the Spirit in that sense. Think of the moisture that was involved in the forming of the fruit of the land; it was a reality to Caleb. That is a test to me; are these things a reality to me? If they are, I will be able to convey them to others as Caleb did.

DAB You spoke of persons who were full of the Holy Spirit, but there are also references to persons filled with the Holy Spirit; is there a difference between these two terms? In the way that the Spirit came at Pentecost there was the removal of everything that was not conducive to the filling of these souls by the Holy Spirit. There is a reference to “Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit” (Acts 4: 8), and you have a reference to Stephen “being full of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 7: 55); could you comment on that?

TRC I am not sure that I can. I can see that being full of the Holy Spirit is the full thought. I suppose in a certain sense we are all in the time of the filling of the Spirit, are we? I certainly could not say that I am full of the Holy Spirit, but in this waiting time, are we not in the time of the filling of the Spirit where the Spirit’s desire is to take the place that we will give Him? These references in John to the Spirit that we have read show that the vessel does not hinder it. So these things are very exercising.

DAB We can say one thing, that the Lord Jesus Himself was always full of the Holy Spirit. You also said we have everything in having the Holy Spirit; so I suppose we can answer the question by saying that the Holy Spirit will take the place that we give Him, and is the exercise really to give Him the full place in our hearts so that there is the full consonance in the character of Christ in that sense, our love for the Father and the Father’s love being demonstrated? It would make the divine operations in our soul easy if I was full of the Holy Spirit.

TRC I can see that the Spirit will take the measure that we give Him, and in the time that is left to us that would be my desire that we may lay ourselves open to the filling of the Spirit. He is available, He wants to do it, and there is no hinderance or hesitation from the Spirit’s side.

WMP In John 2, the stone vessels were filled, “to the brim”, v 7. In that case it was water; so is that the necessary thing on our part, that we have to get rid of the flesh, and all that belongs to the first man, in order that there might be room for the Holy Spirit? What you are drawing our attention to is very wholesome and challenging.

TRC It is, but do you not think that ministry should challenge us? If we are to grow in the truth, ministry should come, and I should feel the edge of it. I am not taking any place above the brethren, the brethren know that, but I feel if we are to be filled with the Spirit it means other things have to go. We speak about judging the flesh and having to do with the flesh, but these are real Christian exercises and if the Spirit is to have way with us they are necessary exercises.

In relation to John 7, although the Spirit is one gift, and we cannot divide the Spirit, I thought that the lower springs might relate to what is down here. He is the Spirit of truth, and what would be formed in us by the Spirit would be according to the truth. I thought it was interesting, when you look at the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5, to see the first three features: “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace”, v 22. These first three features are what the Spirit forms inwardly, and the other features, although one gift, one fruit, are what comes out in testimony; and that relates to the place that we give to the Spirit; the more place we give to Him the more these features will be formed in us.

JL That corresponds with John 7, “come to me and drink”, and as you do there is the outflow, that follows immediately; that is what is inwardly gained by way of enrichment, but then this outward expression comes in testimony and response too.

TRC That is very confirming. What flows out is a result of what has been formed inwardly, and it is rivers! What can we say about it, the gift of the Spirit. As I have said, Mr Coates says if a man has the Spirit he has everything.

AMB I think these exercises are necessary. I was reflecting on the importance of making room for the Spirit. Paul writes to the Galatians about sowing to the Spirit (chap 6: 8), an expression we often come across. As we sow, fruit will be borne just as you quoted from Galatians 5, and that can be taken account of in testimony. I would like you to say more as to the thought of the upper springs and the Spirit’s work in the believer in relation to the worship of God.

TRC What is formed subjectively by the Spirit in the believer is what comes out in relation to the upper springs.

In John 4, it is well-travelled ground for us, but how necessary it is. I thought of this woman; she had been searching for satisfaction. She had come to the well, she knew how deep that well was, she had sought satisfaction in personal relationships, and what she found down here; but the Lord draws her, and He speaks to her about the water that is in the well, “Every one who drinks of this water shall thirst again”. We have found that! If we go to the wells of the world we will thirst again, but He says, “the water which I shall give him shall become in him a fountain of water, springing up into eternal life”. You can understand why the woman says, “Sir, give me this water”. Then He draws her along further to something even greater in relation to the worship of His Father.

AMB It is a fine thing to desire to be a worshipper. You have been speaking of desires, and the importance of the desire to experience it by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit would help us with the desire to be worshippers, “worship him in spirit and truth”.

TRC It should be an encouragement to us all and to our younger brothers in the service of God; if you feel the Spirit prompt you, take advantage of that! You do not need to say much but the Spirit is there to strengthen, and if you have worship in your heart the Spirit would desire that you give expression to it.

RG It is interesting to see that these features are what marked Achsah. She sprang off the ass; she knew what to do. She had already asked Othniel to ask her father for the field. We see how the Lord delights to bring this woman of John 4 on; He reveals things to her.

TRC That is very important. You might say that the Lord sows that seed of desire with her. He points out the fact that what she is getting from the well, the world’s system, was not going to satisfy her, and as soon as she had the realisation that there were springs of water, the Spirit was available anticipatively, she says, “Sir, give me this water”. The desire was there, and it is from that desire that the Lord then moves on and touches briefly on the moral side but then how He quickly draws her on to the worship of God.

GBG We sometimes sing -

Our satisfied hearts to outpour in His praise. (Hymn 257)

For the believer this is characteristic; you have Christ characteristically before you.

TRC Well, tell us what that means.

GBG That it is normal, normal for the believer to be satisfied with Christ, the object of our affections; it is so important. Would you say that the Lord is aiming at this, the worship of His Father? There is no greater salvation than that, than your spirit being occupied with divine Persons; I am not sure how to put it, but that is the truth.

TRC That is so helpful and right. We could say that if we have Christ, we have everything too, but I think if we are going to be preserved in our links with the Lord and enjoy them, we need the Spirit. Speaking simply the Lord knew as He was going above that there would be a need. He speaks of the Comforter; He speaks of the Spirit: “he shall guide you into all the truth” (John 14: 13), and “he … will bring to your remembrance all the things which I have said to you”, chap 13: 26. The Lord recognised that believers would have a need down here and that need has been met in no greater way than by the gift of the Holy Spirit.

GBG I think that when the Lord speaks of the Spirit from John 13 onwards, it is all positive. The Spirit helps us in our moral exercises, which is very necessary, and the more we enjoy the high levels of the truth and speak about them the more we need to make sure our foundations are right and solid.

TRC We prove the Spirit’s help in our occasions of being together, we cannot deny that, and how confirming that is. In recent years I have found that really confirming, that we sit under living ministry and the Spirit is free, and it is His desire that He should help us to grow and be formed in our knowledge of the truth.

GBG We enjoy wonderful things on Lord’s day morning together, and we can speak about them in a very elevated way, but we must not be careless about our moral exercise because we touch these things.

TRC I think that is the essence of my exercise. We do enjoy things by the Spirit but let us see to it that what is being formed in us inwardly is in keeping with the title we have.

JL John 4 is largely connected with “the water which I shall give him” which I suppose is in connection with the Spirit of Christ in our hearts, so that we are helped in some measure to think of the Father as Christ thinks of Him. You referred in your opening remarks to the Father’s Spirit being given and that helps us from that point of view in thinking of Christ as the Father thinks of Him. These are very rich thoughts, the way we consider and love both of these other Persons of the Godhead.

TRC It is helpful to see what the work of each divine Person is, and it is to one end. The Father delights to make much of Christ and the Spirit’s delight is to do that too. The delight of the servant on the journey in Genesis 24 was to make much of Isaac, speaking to us of the Holy Spirit occupying with all that belongs to Christ.

JL There must necessarily be the work of inward formation, but these are very exalted thoughts that we should have feelings and sensitivities and intelligence in relation to the way that Christ thinks concerning the Father, and the way that the Father thinks concerning His own beloved Son. The Spirit of God helps us to grow in intelligence in what these directions are.

TRC Could we know it in any other way?

NJH Why is it that Christ had to be glorified before the Spirit came? Give us a touch on that.

TRC You can help, but it required that there was a Man in heaven. The work of Christ, the work of redemption was completed entirely to the Father’s delight, and He is received in glory. And the Spirit came from that realm, and from that time after the ten days; the Spirit comes from that area where Christ is glorified.

NJH According to Romans we are glorified as receiving the Spirit. It means that in a certain sense we are brought into moral conformity to One that is above, by the Spirit. I am linking on with where we read that the Spirit had not come because Christ had not yet been glorified. It is a very touching movement.

TRC The Spirit has come from an area where Christ is in His rightful place; He brings the wealth of that to our hearts and can make that known to us.

PAG In John 4, we are set free from the demand of sin by the presence of the Holy Spirit, but in John 5 we are set free from the demand of the law by the knowledge of the Father, and in John 6 we are set free from the demand of the world by feeding on Christ. But if that is all so, if we have been set free, what have we been set free for? We need a new object and that is why the Spirit comes from a Man in the glory; it is to give us a new object that has nothing to do with this world. There is no point to be set free just to carry on in this world; we need to be set free to be taken out of it.

TRC That is very fine! The Spirit in that sense has seen Christ in that place of exaltation and that is now the object for us. The Spirit would lift our eyesight, the upper springs would do that, lift our eyesight to an area of worship, an area where Christ is glorified and is the object in that scene above.

APG The Lord’s word “filled with power from on high”; that is a very dignified position.

TRC I think that is right and that is what struck me. What the Lord says in relation to the Spirit is worthy of our consideration, “but do ye remain in the city till ye be clothed with power from on high”. A person down here indwelt with the Spirit is a dignified person. Let us see to it that we act like it. If the Spirit has way with us, we will.

GBG It says, “clothed with power from on high”; that is what is seen. Would it be right to say that the features of the Spirit Himself would be seen?

TRC Yes, you have something in mind. I can see that the Spirit is forming features of Christ in us, but I am sure that what can be seen of the features of the Spirit must be linked to that.

GBG We normally speak about the Spirit forming features of Christ in us. The Spirit Himself is a very feeling Person. But this is power for the testimony, “clothed with power from on high”, and that is what the apostles had. The apostle Paul in Thessalonians speaks about yearning over those young believers (1 Thess 2: 8); that is a feature of the Spirit - that is an inward thing of course, while being “clothed” is more outward. I would like to hear what you and others say about it.

TRC I am glad of what you say. We have a hymn about the Spirit, striving here with men, (Hymn 109), and there is a certain urgency with that. The Spirit is looking for ground to work on.

BWL Although the Spirit has not become incarnate, He is just like Christ, is He not?

TRC I think that answers the question!

JTB The “raiment of embroidery” in Psalm 45: 14 might link with what we are saying: that seems to suggest the decorative work of the Holy Spirit.

TRC What has been formed within (v 13) comes out into expression: “her clothing is of wrought gold”. Then it says, “She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of embroidery”, which would involve the detail of the Spirit’s work.

JTB Embroidery is intricate work, stitch by stitch. I suppose that enters into our personal pathways. There is a reference in the psalms, “Passing through the valley of Baca, they make it a well-spring”, Ps 84: 6. Do you think as we traverse our own personal pathways and all that enters into them in so many different ways, the well-spring is proved? The volume of water increases and has its outlet upwards in the well-spring. The well-spring might connect with the upper springs.

TRC What comes out in expression in response is what the Spirit has formed in us. Many brethren are under pressure, bearing things, but the Spirit is available to not only comfort but strengthen and form us in relation to Christ.

DW We need to make full use of the Spirit within us. I was thinking of that poor widow woman, all she had was a pot of oil; but when it was used, she and her sons could “live on the rest, 2 Kings 4: 1-7. We need to live in the full power of what has been given to us.

TRC That is a good reference, and that widow undervalued what she had. When the oil came into circulation, she could live on the rest, it was more than enough. We should desire to give the Spirit greater place, and our appreciation of Him should increase too. He is a divine Person and He has been given to us.

SMcL In John 4: 23, the Lord says, “the hour is coming and now is”. I am interested in that expression “and now is”. The service of God is proceeding now, and if we are to have any part in it, we should be susceptible to the prompting of the Holy Spirit within us. How would that work out practically in our experience?

TRC We can be in the spirit of worship at any time. We often speak in relation to the breaking of bread and the service of God, and how right that is, and that continues. What a privilege it is to have part in the service of God! But I do not think “now is” is limited to our occasions of being together. We can see in Paul’s writing the way that he is moved to doxologies; no doubt the promptings of the Spirit brought about worship to God. Would that fit with what you had in mind?

SMcL Paul wrote with a worshipful spirit, obviously in communion with divine Persons.

TRC If we are preserved in the sense of mercy, as Paul was, and preserved in the valuation of what has been brought to us, we have the southern land; but we have been given the gift of the Spirit, and I think that would help us in relation to having a worshipful spirit.

WMP Paul says in the Philippian epistle, “we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and boast in Christ Jesus, and do not trust in flesh”, chap 3: 3. But here the expression is “worship … in spirit and truth”. What is your impression that that expression might convey to us?

TRC There are others that can help. The Lord says, “worship … in spirit”; it is the way that it is done, but does “in truth” bring out the reality of it, that there is the side that we can only approach the Father through Christ by one Spirit? That is essential, but then the truth would show us that there has been a moral basis for our access to the Father that we are in the gain of. From the divine side everything has been met righteously, but from our side are we morally in keeping with our approach to the Father?

WMP I can see that it is not a matter of our minds exactly, nor is it ritual. Do you think “in spirit and truth” would involve a certain vitality and life in our response, and the truth would no doubt bring in the full revelation of God which you brought before us, the way that He has been made known to us in Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You can see that it must be a full answer to the Father.

TRC Yes; in the Old Testament David says, “of that which is from thy hand have we given thee”, 1 Chron 29: 14. It is entirely what has been wrought in our hearts, not our minds; that is what we bring in worship to God.

JTB Does the Spirit link with the character of the persons He indwells? I was thinking about the reference in Romans, “ye have received a spirit of adoption”; it is a small ‘s’ there. Of course, it is the spirit of sonship, but I think it relates to the character of persons who are worshipping.

TRC It is as if my spirit is in line with the Holy Spirit.

GBG The woman in John 4 was concerned about place, but the Lord says that is not the point.

TRC You mean she is thinking, “in this mountain” or “in Jerusalem”? The Lord says, “But the hour is coming and now is”. The time for worship is now. We can worship at any time.

And may it be so.

Dundee

12^th April 2025

List of initials:-

A M Brown, Linlithgow; D A Brown, Bo’ness; J T Brown, Edinburgh; T R Campbell, Glasgow; R Gardiner, Aberdeen; A P Grant, Dundee; G B Grant, Dundee; P A Gray, Linlithgow; N J Henry, Glasgow; J Laurie, Brechin; B W Lovie, Aberdeen; C A McKay, Brechin; S McLaren, Kirkcaldy; W M Patterson, Glasgow; D Walker, Dundee

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