LINKS WITH CHRIST

John 20: 11-23; 2 Corinthians 3: 4 6; 17,18

A.J.E.W. The experience of our direct links with the Person of Christ has been in mind this past week particularly in reference to what takes place in formation in us as those direct links with Christ are experienced. The presence of the Lord is a wonderful point in the expansion of what is developed and formed spiritually in any one of us. The word of God is always a great point of increase and formation entering into our prophetic meetings and occasions of ministry, but the more extended experience both personally and in the assembly of our relation to Christ is paramount. I feel assured that the Lord would promote and deepen those relations as He is about to come. The forty days is a most interesting period to review, the time in which the Lord was here after He arose, when He was, it seems, exclusively engaged with His beloved disciples and with what would answer to divine purpose. He was not seen by the world, He did not come into any situation that would have that in mind, but the scripture shows how He pursued His connections with His beloved disciples. The endings of the gospels taken together relate to this and give a rich area of instruction, and the beginning of the Acts reminds us of the way in which the Lord was amongst His own, being seen by them during forty days. We are not given a long account of individual occasions of seeing Him; He was seen by them during forty days, as if the mark of those forty days was just that they saw Jesus. The disciples were marked off in that time as those who had seen Jesus, just as Mary is likewise marked off. It is a great matter to have that as a characteristic, that we have seen Jesus. That would not just relate to initial experience but to the whole continuance of our course - persons who have seen Jesus. The Acts helps us too by the qualification for the twelfth apostle when reference is made to all the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day in which he was taken up, including both the days of His flesh, as we speak of them, and also the forty days, that it was needful especially that the one appointed should be a witness with the others of His resurrection, a witness of it, and the whole line of thought there would enlarge to us the point of acquaintance with Jesus out of death. The glorious Man who met death and is out of death is perfectly, personally free to move and to act, to tarry if He please with His own without any limitation of the exact circumstance in which He might be known. I thought we should see how much ground is covered briefly. Mary has a certain shadowy apprehension as to Jesus, her heart is just yearning for Him personally, and her experience with Him, just alone as it seems, is a point from which a great deal moves out, in a certain sense the whole testimony moves out from that point because the record goes on to the time when the Lord sent out His disciples - "as the Father sent me forth, I also send you". So that a great deal of ground is covered quickly and the Spirit would impress us with that, that in this remarkable area of direct relationship to Christ there is scope for ground to be covered very quickly in view of what the Lord would wish for His own heart in view of God's great end. Her point is a simple one in the sense that the youngest and the simplest lover in Christ and submissive to Him, and having the Spirit, can touch something of what we have in this first passage. The point would be to find stimulation from the Lord Himself to seek out such experience as this at every point in our history, to get into the presence of the Lord. He loves that we should.

F.M.K. It was a wonderful service the Lord rendered to Mary, was it not? She was quickly lifted out of the atmosphere of weeping and death into a sphere of joy and life with Him.

A.J.E.W. And we have the same Lord and this wonderful service of His. He is so remarkably simple and yet so quickly fruitful, but we need perhaps to stop a little and think about it. We have often read the latter part of the passage we turned to, but I suspect there is a need to get some impression of the earlier parts to see the yearning in the heart of Mary not just for facts about Jesus but for the Person, she sought Him and her tears related to that, and as you say the Lord serves her, if I could use the expression with reverence, with remarkable efficiency. He is brief and pointed and yet the fruit of His service is immediately and very delightfully available to Himself.

R.L. Does the touch that John gives at the beginning of this gospel help? He says "he came to his own, and his own received him not; but as many as received him, to them gave he the right to be children of God", chap 1: 11, 12. I was thinking of the Person and our being ready to receive Him at any time.

A.J.E.W. That is very interesting because His own received Him not: that is the Jewish position, it is marked off in that sense; they received Him not, a plain and direct statement, but there were those that received Him. What a wonderful point to come to that the Lord is received! It would enter into our assembling for the Supper, that the longing is there that Jesus may come. It is a unique occasion and yet not the only one in which we may know His presence. The Supper must be kept at its own heavenly level and the uniqueness of that time must be guarded as the scripture guards it, but we can go into the presence of Jesus at any time and we would look for some manifestation of His presence in any meeting. The personal side of what the Lord is to us is, I think, something that He would strengthen especially in view of His coming.

G.A.P. She says "my Lord". Is that an indication that she had received Him, that her affections embraced Him personally?

A.J.E.W. That is very important because we see in Mary's case that the Spirit is emphasising the personal side which must exist, which must be kept current. There is much that relates to our relationships together, what we speak of as our collective relationships, both with John and with Paul, but this passage would emphasise to us that the personal side is there, and I think it right to impress upon all of us that the personal links with God's beloved Son must be kept fresh. The link needs to be strong and frequently reverted to and the presence of Jesus sought out especially, maybe, at times of personal crisis which was the case with Mary; she had come to a time of personal crisis. The Lord resolves it remarkably quickly and effectively, and the fact that she was cloudy - and those that have helped us in the truth have all commented on the cloudiness with Mary at first - does not disqualify her from fitting at once into the great scheme of what the Lord is doing, and filling a unique place in it - because she carried a unique message at a unique time - but it was Mary who did it.

G.A.P. Is that personal touch also seen very wonderfully when Jesus says to her "Mary"? That was a direct communication to her and to her alone.

A.J.E.W. That is the Lord has before Him the person He knows, He delights to affirm how He knows her. The way in which He just expresses her name is very suggestive that the Lord is reminding Mary of His perfect knowledge of her. She had a history with the Lord, she knew the power that had cast out seven demons, and now the point is not the seven demons but the Person who cast them out.

G.A.P. Is that the difference between His seeking us and our seeking Him? We sometimes sing 'He sought me, and He found me' (Hymn 367). He did it, I did not do it, and that reaches right into our affections, that He should seek me and find me. But is this something further, that we seek the One who did that?

A.J.E.W. I think we would need the experience of both sides, but the Lord will never fail us as we seek Him genuinely. Where the heart is simple and upright in seeking out the Lord I believe He will never fail us, but He loves to reach the point where He can disclose His own feelings about the matter, particularly of course in our collective relationships.

G.A.P. We can see, as we have been here these few moments together, the wonderful blessedness of the experience, but how can we get ourselves into the way of it?

A.J.E.W. The need of definiteness about it is clear; that is, speaking practically, get on your own and go to the Lord and speak to Him. We need to be, maybe, more spontaneous in this; and whilst having holy habits in this connection, that is times that are set apart for prayer, there may be a need for greater spontaneity just to turn to Him at any particular moment, but the Lord loves the personal, affectionate side to enter into things. He delights in His love to furnish an answer to dire need which sometimes arises on our side; there has been much evidence of that in recent months - the acute need that comes from things the Lord has allowed. But there is the instinctive turning to the Lord, not just because of the need but the sense that He is entering into the matter that occasions the need, and that He has in mind to use the occasion to promote a link with Himself and enrich it to a point where it has never been experienced before.

R.L. He said to some earlier in John "ye will not come to me that ye might have life", chap 5: 40. He brings in life. Peter realised this - "to whom shall we go?” Does He bring in life in relation to every matter?

A.J.E.W. It is good to bring that in because life is something that is very precious to Christ, precious to God. He delights to find life appearing in us; but life is not, as those that have gone before have often reminded us, a question of doctrine but is something which stands by itself in our experience. Coming into life is that we get to the Lord. I want to make this point a very simple and direct one bearing on every one of us, that the Lord may have more opportunity to furnish the deepening, not only through discipline that we all have in different ways and different measure, but to deepen us spiritually to reach a point of appreciation of Himself and the glory of His Person, and the place and part that we have with Him in heaven.

D.J.H. Is it noticeable that she does not answer the question "Whom seekest thou"? I wondered whether He was the only object of her heart because she goes on immediately to speak of Him - "if thou hast borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him". That could refer to none other because He was the sole object of her affections.

A.J.E.W. One glorious Person only was governing her mind. In these complicated days our minds get a good deal cumbered about with many details of many things, we live in demanding times in that sense, those of us particularly who have to work, but can we keep the Lord as the single object, the point of yearning of the heart? Are we always ready for this delightful touch from Him? Are we ready to say, as Mary did, Rabboni? Beautiful rejoinder on her part: Rabboni! It is not just 'Rabbi' which is a slightly lower level of thought, more religious in its context, it is 'Rabboni' in the sense that she has found the Teacher, One who will instruct her about anything and everything. She has discovered One that she has only to seek out to find an answer to any problem. That is a wonderful discovery, and it is discovered as the link of affection with Christ is in fresh and full operation; we find we have discovered in the Lord's grace a Rabboni.

D.J.H. We sometimes sing of this desert dry and this sad, empty place (see hymn 228). This tomb was a sad, empty place for Mary and the world is such to us as He is the object of our affections.

A.J.E.W. And that wilderness experience is part of our education and it is used of God in that connection. What I believe the Lord would strengthen is the positive side of experience with Himself that is leading to the fuller apprehension of what is spiritual, and the fuller enjoyment of what is spiritual with immense consequences for enrichment in what we speak of as the service of God. The positive line of these experiences is to be noticed. The side of discipline a loving Father brings in in the perfection of His wisdom, and we recognise how much we have, through His grace, reached through discipline which we might never have reached without it. But there is the side of positive experience with Christ and in the Spirit which promotes spiritual formation with us, and Mary is very quickly in view as a person in whom in principle, at least, spiritual formation is taking place.

G.A.P. Is that why the Lord says to her immediately "Touch me not"? He wanted to introduce her immediately into that spiritual order and elevation marked by His ascension.

A.J.E.W. It seems she learns very quickly on that point. There are things that the Lord does need to tarry over or to emphasise strongly, and although that point is crucial, absolutely crucial, our links with Christ are with Him beyond death; they are not with Him in relation to what He was down here before He died, our links with Christ relate to Him beyond death and to a whole heavenly order of things brought into view in Him in resurrection and glory. It is a crucial lesson but it is not extensively dwelt on in detail; the Lord is passing on to something else. That is a fine thing in our instruction when the Lord can pass on to something else which is fuller and richer in its bearing, showing that the learning process has been thorough. That, I believe, is manifest with Mary, the learning process is thorough, she is learning quickly. We know how Mr Taylor reproached us once that we had been slow learners (see Vol 61, p.251). Mary is learning quickly.

C.C.I. Would this enter into the Lord's quickening service? I would like to be like Mary, a learner. It says in Acts "he presented himself living", chap 1: 3. Is this the beginning of it? When He says "Mary" is that a quickening touch? And when He breathes into His disciples is that a quickening matter?

A.J.E.W. He uses her name: it is a quickening touch in the specially personal sense. This is not exactly what we get in the later verses, it is something which has Mary in view, something which is the Lord's gracious loving touch upon her as the immediate object of what He is saying and doing. You feel the need of understanding these personal relationships to Christ in which He would have us rightly with Him in view of what follows.

C.C.I. From a practical point of view it can be instantaneous.

A.J.E.W. Yes, that is it. So it is a wonderful thing to move on quickly in the presence of the Lord, and it is wonderful what He gives you. You find at first perhaps that your mind is full of other things, you have had the worries of the day maybe to attend to; but you get into the presence of the Lord and stay there a little. It may not at first be too easy to enjoy the link in any full and distinctive sense but stay in His presence and speak to Him about it and it is remarkable what He is able to effect and what He is able to open up to us; not of course the fulness of what is opened up to us in the assembly but reaching on into what belongs to the assembly so that we can move on into the assembly and be quickly and effectively available there to fill out the whole range of heavenly thoughts that are in view in that choice vessel.

A.J.K. It would seem that, on the other side, Peter and John missed out on this because they did not wait.

A.J.E.W. Well, of course, they were two prominent men, and the Lord was very soon to use them at a critical time most distinctively; but what was happening in those men at this time the Lord knows. We sometimes have to leave that side of things; it is a very instructive passage in that sense. Peter and John do not shine at this time but it appears that they very soon got right and that without doubt they would be present when the Lord came in amongst His brethren. So it just shows that the Lord has His inscrutably skilful way with every one of us and He would have us to understand that to make room for it. That does not set aside my responsibility in reference to my brethren or their responsibility in reference to me, but the Lord has His way and His skill.

H.A.H. I wondered if the fact that verse 11 begins with the word 'but' is not only in contrast to what Mr Knight draws attention to but showed that Mary's exercise (which from verse 1 shows that she had nothing else before her that morning) was not yet completed.

A.J.E.W. Exactly, and you would like to feel that there is the 'but' in our histories in this positive sense that she has; it seems that she has a distinctive impression to wait and she does wait, and she comes into a great deal on the principle of waiting.

F.G.M. Do you think that we each need to get this personal touch, maybe through a crisis, so that we can enjoy what there is collectively?

A.J.E.W. So it quickly moves on to what is collective and the Lord sends her on, you might say, in advance and gives her an opportunity of getting among the disciples with something that actively concerns Himself. It must have been a wonderful experience for Mary to come among the disciples and deliver this message, and it must have been a wonderful experience for them to have received Mary and to have received the message. I do not want to be fanciful but it is clear that an element of experience of the most distinct kind would enter into that.

G.A.P. Was it a spiritual apprehension of Mary's, as getting the direction "go to my brethren", that she goes to the disciples? She would have understood on a spiritual level what the Lord Jesus had in His mind as to where she was to go.

A.J.E.W. It is a very striking thing because the Lord had not much spoken about His disciples as brethren, but she knew to whom He referred. He is viewing His disciples on new ground now; they stand in this relation to Him as out of death, the whole matter of redemption complete. There is a relation now of a positive kind which the Lord can name, they are not just persons having to do with Him, they are persons in relationship to Christ. That is a great point to stabilise us in our experience, that we are no less than brethren of Christ. It is not that they claim anything, He delights to own them, as if the Lord would impart a lustre to all these relations in which love would hold us and give us to tarry in them and rightly enjoy them but come under the formative power of the presence and touch of Jesus. The Lord has skilful ways of bringing about a work of formation in His saints, but this is remarkably positive one, to get into His presence; and He has something to say to you and something to give by way of impression by the Spirit, and it affects us and brings about something that is formed in the person.

E.C.M. She would never be deprived of Him again in the link she had now spiritually with Him. Is that not important?

A.J.E.W. Quite so. It must have been a wonderful thing for Mary to be kept in the sense of that as the Lord went into heaven and as the Spirit came, because the Spirit having come and taken up His place in us in the house there is the immediateness of our link with Christ up there in mind; there is no question of His position up there involving distance from us. The Spirit is able in the marvel of His service to bring us into immediate relation to Christ so that we speak to Him simply. It might even be a cry of sudden need but we speak to the Lord, and the Spirit brings us into the sense that our relation is with Christ. Wonderful thing! is it not?

E.C.M. And that is a wholly spiritual relationship here. Paul said "but if even we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we know him thus no longer", 2 Cor 5: 16. Is it a question of how we know Him now?

A.J.E.W. That is right. There were those who knew Him after the flesh. We have spoken of two of them in the Acts who were brought forward in view of the twelfth apostle; they had had to be with them all the time from the baptism of John till the time of His taking up. But now the important thing is that they do not know Him after the flesh as in the days of His flesh but they know Him beyond death.

E.C.M. You referred to the forty days in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among them; Paul saw the Lord; he says "have I not seen Jesus our Lord?" 1 Cor 9: 1.

A.J.E.W. There are two sides, what a soul may seek out in relations with Him and what He in His own place is carrying forward for the divine pleasure. The two fit together perfectly in Mary's history, and they will fit together perfectly in our history. But you feel that the Lord comes into our collective relationships as leading on in various respects to help us forward and to sustain us in the service of praise, taking His place as Minister of the sanctuary. So you have the two sides, the urgent desire with us to seek, yea and to find His presence, but then the blessedness of those relationships in which He personally in glory is prominent as leading the saints on in reference to what is for God's pleasure.

R.L. Does not God bring out His own feelings in this way early on? In Exodus 19 He says "I have borne you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself" (v 4). The deliverance and the work in them was in view of being brought personally to Himself in relation to His pleasure. The Lord's own desires in that way would affect us.

A.J.E.W. It is to widen our horizons to embrace the fullest thoughts of divine purpose, fruit for God. You feel that the Lord is doing that. It may be that some of us have been sluggish but the Lord is active to widen our view that we may see the majesty of His Person in reference to the whole extent of the divine pleasure, and come into some experience and appreciation of that. I feel the Lord is pressing upon us, in our links of affection with Him, what He is personally, and the way in which we are to appreciate Him in the glory of His manhood, while still holding in our minds and affections who He is. The way in which the truth is opened out, the mind of God opened out, the divine feelings opened out in the Person of Jesus relates to the glory of His manhood, and how we may learn things from Him, speaking reverently, because He has taken a place and retains a place in manhood so that we can learn from Him in the most direct sense. It is not just a question of an address or a setting forth of the truth in word; the fact that He is in manhood involves that we can learn from Him though He ever remains who He is in the glory of His Person. That is wonderful grace!

A.J.K. Did those two on the way to Emmaus have an experience which brought them back? They were not told to come back but they came back to the collective side of things.

A.J.E.W. That whole long chapter is very instructive in what we are saying. It is another of the sections of Scripture that deals with the forty days, and we see there how a situation which, from the human view could quickly disintegrate, is brought into oneness in the service of Christ. Those two were going away; why did they go? Scripture does not say, there is no cause given why they went. Sometimes we take turns in our lives which have no plain purpose related to the divine interest, and yet of course the Lord would, in His grace, bring those two back, and He brought them back. Things began to happen when He brought them back; and although the rest of the disciples maybe were not just too clear, the Lord Himself comes in and makes everything clear in the wonderful expression of His grace. I suppose John's account of what took place in the forty days would relate more to what is normal experience, whereas Luke's account deals in a sense with conditions in which a certain cloudiness and doubt and uncertainty have come in. The Lord is able for both.

F.M.K. The Lord's own words here, "I ascend", were a help to Mary. Had those two going to Emmaus lost sight of that?

A.J.E.W. How we need to keep it in mind and not, as you say, lose sight of it, because the Lord is embarking on the greatest matters, and after this disclosure of Himself He sends them forth, and breathed into them. "He breathed into them, and says to them, Receive the Holy Spirit": a remarkable pattern, as it has been spoken of. The Lord would impress us that the way in which the Spirit was on Him is the same Spirit in the power of which we go forth - one of the most affecting features of the Spirit's activity.

D.A.B. Does it help to refer to a verse in Acts 4 where the council recognise Peter and John that they had been with Jesus? I was wondering whether there was a correspondence with Moses, that the frequenting of the presence of God had caused a certain glory to shine out in him.

A.J.E.W. I am sure that is right, and it would develop in the right and spiritual sense what has sometimes been spoken of as personality; so that the saints are persons of dignity characteristically but every brother and sister is different, the adorning effect of the work of God is seen in different ways in each. We have had instruction from time to time on spiritual personality, and what you are speaking of would develop that personality; and if there is personality spiritually in a person it is for the divine pleasure, it is not to mark off that person before men.

G.A.P. Does not the glorious aggregate of this experience shine in the assembly?

A.J.E.W. I am sure that is important. The time seems to run on quickly when we speak of these precious things but your word aggregate is a very useful word because you can look around this room and think of the aggregate of what there is precious to Christ in a company like this with all the immense variety of experience which is represented in persons old and young. It is one of the most stimulating things in reference to serving the saints in the ministry of the truth to think of the wealth there is in the aggregate of the company and the way in which the Lord can increase that through the experiences of every one severally.

G.A.P. Does the experience with Himself yield what is like Himself? It is all-glorious.

A.J.E.W. That is why I ventured the comment on His abiding in glorious manhood, that the features that appear are like Himself. By being like Himself it relates to what He is as Man; there are features which, being men, we can understand brought out in their perfection in Jesus, shining gloriously and affecting us.

Now we should just have a few moments on the second scripture to call attention to the fact that the main purpose of that chapter is to refer to ministry and the quality of ministry which Paul and his companions stood for. It is not Paul only, as an apostle; he says "not that we are competent of ourselves", that is he links his companions with him, "but our competency is of God; who has also made as competent, as ministers of the new covenant". It is a kind of ministry that is up-building in its bearing and leads to the uniqueness of experience which is recorded at the end of the chapter where the Lord personally comes into prominence and where there is a change brought about among the saints; "But we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit". That is there is an effect; it would be hard maybe to define the effect save its essential character, that it is from glory to glory. It is not an effect which is brought out by contrast but rather by the principle of accession; that is, there is something greater brought about. From whatever point we have reached the presentation of the Person of Christ He is able to bring about something greater - from glory to glory.

C.C.I. You spoke earlier of the formation that was with Mary. Is this transformation connected with that idea?

A.J.E.W. Yes, it is the glorious side of it; that is, the saints take on what is spoken of as glory. We may not be able to limit it, or to define it any more closely, but it is glorious and you see the saints as bearers of glory, and increasing in that connection as they are beholding the glory of the Lord. You feel how normal this is, that the saints should become greater in this sense as having to do with Christ; but there is no other way proposed for this-from glory to glory than by beholding the glory of the Lord.

C.C.I. Would you think it very important to keep to objective ministry as there is a subjective result as this matter is carried forward in ministry?

A.J.E.W. That is why I turned to this chapter because the early part of it is to emphasise the quality and character of Pauline ministry, that there are new covenant ministers. They are bringing to bear the full efficacy of the work of Christ and all that has issued from it for the pleasure of God, in view of those persons being instructed and secured, formed according to God to find their place in this remarkable realm, this transformation.

G.A.P. Is the receiving of the Holy Spirit vital to what you are saying? Would it involve our giving full scope to Him in view of apprehending the ministry that comes in His power?

A.J.E.W. Exactly. You feel that the Spirit has a delightful way, in inditing the Scriptures, of keeping His out-of-sight place, and yet many scriptures there are that clearly pre-suppose the indwelling of the Spirit and some knowledge of Himself, and that would be clear in these Corinthian letters. The gift and indwelling of the Spirit are pre-supposed in very much of the teaching and this is certainly part of it.

E.C.M. Is that confirmed in chapter 4? "Therefore, having this ministry", and then "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassingness of the power may be of God" (v 7).

A.J.E.W. Quite so. So the surpassingness of the power just bows the heart. You are made to realise all that God is working out in this positive and fruitful sense; that His power is operating and the surpassingness of it to bring about an answer which befits His own glorious thoughts.

 

MAIDSTONE

28 August 1976

 

Key to initials

D.A.B. - D.A.Burr, London: D.J.H. - D.J.Hutson, London: H.A.H. - H.A.Hutson, London: C.C.I. - C.C.lkin, Southend: F.M.K. - F.M.Knappett, Maidstone: A.J.K. - A.J.Knight, Birmingham: R.L. - R.Lawrence, Maidstone: F.G.M. - F.G.May, Maidstone: E.C.M. - E.C.Muggleton, Croydon: G.A.P. - G.A.Palmer, London: A.J.E.W. - A.J.E.Welch, London.