CONTENDING EARNESTLY FOR THE FAITH ONCE DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS
JM As the brethren well know, these are the only two of the seven assemblies in Asia, mentioned in Revelation 2 and 3, against which the Lord has nothing to raise. The seven assemblies which are in Asia are the results of Paul’s ministry, Asia being the area where he laboured. We were reading of one of them in the earlier reading and noticed his tremendous labours, and the spirit in which he laboured. One other thing that could be said about these two assemblies, particularly the latter, is that they had contended earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints. So, it is encouraging that the whole truth can be contained in such a small number. God has that which He can entrust with the truth. I thought we might look at them, perhaps the assembly at Smyrna was not so much of what we have said as that in Philadelphia, but nevertheless account has to be taken of the fact that the Lord has no criticism; indeed he commends the assembly there, and she is a suffering assembly. How real and deep were her sufferings for the truth. We remarked that every one of us would have to suffer if we are prepared to maintain the truth according to the divine level. But the Lord speaks very tenderly to the angel of the assembly in Smyrna, “These things says the first and the last, who became dead, and lived—I know thy tribulation and thy poverty”. I should think that as in the world they would have been of no account whatsoever, but He says “but thou art rich”, that is a very fine thing to say, that was His estimate; the Lord’s estimate is always worthwhile. I wondered if we might consider these two assemblies and see if we can get some help from them in the subject which has been before us.
TFN I thought that what is necessary at this time is a state, a state governing us which could come out in Philadelphia, that might be helpful for us to maintain things in a proper level.
JM Yes, I think the whole point of these meetings has been that we should be exercised about maintaining a state that can have divine approval. It is quite clear here, in the addresses to the seven assemblies, although the Lord has to say some very severe things to some, the first thing He does is to commend what is commendable. Nothing passes the Lord’s scrutiny; we might think of His scrutiny as related to what is against the truth, but the Lord’s scrutiny takes in every little measure of faithfulness towards Himself, and He appreciates it.
NJH Scripture speaks of being poor in this world but rich in faith, but here is it the supply from the Head that makes this assembly rich?
JM Yes, He says “but thou art rich”. I think, additional to the supply from the Head, it is undoubtedly the work of the Spirit in them. So that this is His estimate. (The world’s estimate was that they were poor, and from secular history we understand that they were literally very poor). The Lord has a valuation of each phase, or each period of the assembly’s history, and He knows what His own go through. It is very fine to think about that, He knows in detail what His own go through, and He can put His own estimate on it.
DMW Do the sufferings of the saints make way for the Spirit and preserve us from Laodicean tendencies in saying of ourselves that we are rich?
JM Yes. Laodicea was near to Colosse. In the epistle to the Colossians it says, “in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily; and ye are complete in him”, Colossians 2: 9, 10. The sad thing about Laodicea is that they thought they were complete without Him; really they were a very impoverished assembly, but they thought they were complete. Smyrna was spiritually rich, and the Lord appreciates that. Throughout the meetings we have been thinking about what God works out in us in a spiritual way and the way in which the truth is held spiritually. We do not know much about the detail of this assembly; no doubt they went through very difficult times, but they maintained the truth.
TFN Through suffering in our spirits, suffering in our bodies, the Spirit helps us to be formed and established in the light of the things of God. Suffering really opens up to us a wonderful scope of things which is heavenly, because it takes us away from things here on earth.
JM Well, I am sure that is right. The Lord felt deeply for His poor saints in Smyrna and the suffering they went through. Mr Darby says that the Lord allowed the suffering to preserve them from Pergamos. We cannot always determine what is in the Lord’s mind, but He allowed it to preserve them from what He saw was going to come in in Pergamos. I think it is very beautiful the way that the Lord’s feelings would come out in that.
Rem. When the Lord was about to go out of this world His prayer to the Father was to keep them out of evil, and keep them in His name; that is what comes down to our day in relation to the Father’s care and protection and the Lord’s desire to intercede for us on high.
JM Yes, and while we have said a good deal in these two days about unfaithfulness in relation to the truth, we must always carry in our spirits that there always has been a testimony, right from the time of the incoming of the Spirit. The Spirit has always had those in whom He is free to dwell, and He would have undoubtedly sustained them in the pressures of the way. We would understand that these were severe pressures, involving very largely martyrdom. We do not have that today, our suffering is quite different, it does not have the severity about it that this church went through, but think of the Lord’s tender feelings for it.
Rem. Revelation speaks about our overcoming, and yesterday I was talking with someone about the Lord’s name, and overcoming in His name. Scripture says, “The name of Jehovah is a strong tower—the righteous runneth into it, and is safe”, Proverbs 18: 10. So it is a safe thing even to have the Lord’s name when we have conversation with persons who are ungodly, and bringing in His name is power.
JM Yes, that is your confession, as you confess His name.
DMW Do you think overcoming is in view of the maintenance of the truth? I was recalling Mr Darby’s comment that a test of true love was the maintenance of the truth.
JM This assembly in Smyrna maintained the truth that they had. We do not know how much light they had, but the Lord knows and the Spirit knows. There was unquestionably that in this assembly, as of course in all the others, that justified the continued presence of the Spirit. So that, in that difficult period, the truth went through in the Spirit. But I have no doubt that there was some formative result in the personnel themselves, but whatever they had, little or much, it was bought at a very expensive price, bought at a price of deep suffering, even unto martyrdom.
GDR Would you say something as to the way the Lord presents Himself to this assembly? I am just thinking about “the first and the last, who became dead, and lived”. It is very brief but there is tremendous scope in it as to Christ Himself.
JM The first links very much with what we had in Colossians yesterday, “he is before all, and all things subsist together by him”, Colossians 1: 17. The Lord is unique in that sense. It might not be so easy to carry that in your spirit if you are subject to the wrath of the Roman emperor, it would have been a very difficult thing. But that is what He says of Himself, He does not enlarge on it, and He says that He became dead, and lived. Well that would have been a comfort to them, that if they had to die for the testimony they were having to do with One who became dead, and lived.
GDR John’s experience in chapter one links with this, what he saw, but first he turns back. I wondered if that was important what he saw, and he fell at His feet as dead, then He said “Fear not; I am the first and the last, and the living one—and I became dead, and behold, I am living to the ages of ages”, Revelation 1: 18. Is it a question of the truth being opened up to us as we are prepared for it?
JM Yes. He says, “I am the first and the last, and the living one—and I became dead”. But He goes on from that and adds, that not only was He dead, but He has the keys of death and of hades. Things are under His control, although we might think that things have got out of control. I suppose the opposers would have railed at these beloved saints of God and said, Where is their Christ? He has rejected them. He never rejected them, never would and never will.
CSE Would the sense of the Lord’s knowledge be a great support to us. He says, “I know”. Is that intended to develop in us a greater sense of reliance on the Person?
JM I am sure it is. As you well know, just putting it very simply, if you are going through any pressure yourself, any difficult period, somebody who can say “I know”, is a tremendous comfort. It is the Lord saying it, “I know”. Not only does He know, but He can weigh it in His balances. He can evaluate it according to His own estimate of what it is for His own heart.
APD He could limit it to ten days.
JM Yes, why is it limited?
APD It is no more than ten. I suppose anything we may go through we can be assured that the Lord is in control, matters will be limited according to His knowledge.
JM Yes, I think it is in that regard that Mr Darby said that it is in view of preservation from Thyatira. So it is limited to ten days; it is a brief period but in actual fact, in secular history, it is not as brief as it might appear is it?
APD There were ten persecutions during that time.
JM There were certainly plenty of them and pretty severe too, very largely involving martyrdom.
NJH You said that they were protected from Pergamos and Thyatira, can you just briefly help us as to what is in mind in these remarks?
JM I think what Mr Darby said on that is that the ten days was protection from Pergamos. What he is really saying is that the discipline of the suffering would have preserved them from drifting into the religious world. History tells us that before this there was the link-up politically and religiously and it was against God’s saints. The suffering at Smyrna has in mind the preservation from that terrible order of things that would have swamped away anything that was for God.
WMcK So while they were the subject of the railing of those who say they are Jews, they were preserved from being where the throne of Satan is and the doctrine of Balaam, and how sorrowful to think of the public position becoming a place where Satan dwells.
JM Yes, it is terrible to think about it.
WMcK The Lord would calculate in His love for the assembly, for the pure assembly, that they must be preserved, even if it is severe suffering, from that awful condition.
JM Conditions were so wicked, reaching up to Thyatira, and that which professed the Lord’s name was allowing itself to become steeped in sheer wickedness. And to preserve them from that He allowed the suffering for ten days, but the idea of ten days is that it is limited.
WMcK Yes, and I was thinking that what He says, “the first and the last” links with what Paul says to the Corinthians, “whatever promises of God there are, in him is the yea, and in him the amen, for glory to God by us”, 2 Corinthians 1: 20. The Lord had no doubt in mind that God should be glorified in this assembly and through this severe suffering, but He was the assurance, as Isaiah says, He should be the stability of thy time, and as the first and the last He is that to us.
JM You have referred to the railing of those who say that they themselves are Jews and are not, but a synagogue of Satan. It is not only the actual suffering, but you think of the railing. I suppose, not in the full measure, but in some measure, they went through the sufferings that Christ went through when they taunted Him when He was on the cross. As far as I understand, these saints here would have been subject to the taunts of men, saying, Where is your God? Where is your Christ?
WMcK Would you not think it right that, if the assembly is to be the Lamb’s wife that, other than the atoning sufferings, in the history of the assembly every feature of suffering must be gone through that the Lord went through?
JM Exactly. I was thinking very much of that, that she would go through in a certain degree the suffering the Lord experienced from men. The Lord’s atoning sufferings stand unique, He bore them alone. But I think as being the Lamb’s wife, if we might use the expression, she can stand alongside of Him, as having shared in other sufferings. I think what you said earlier as to God being glorified is right, the sufferings are for the glory of God, although the enemy seemed, to all intents and purposes, to have undisputed sway. I do not suppose there has ever been a time like it, of undisputed sway, and there were these persons who are referred to as poor.
WMcK It brings out the glory of Christ, that He can carry through the true thought of the assembly in persons, regardless of what is allowed in the ways of God in this long dispensation. These seven assemblies show us the various things that Satan would use to try to nullify that, but think of how glorious Christ is that, even though the hand is on the throne of Jah, He can carry everything through according to the purpose of God.
JM I think that is beautiful, that there is no failure in that respect. And not only can He do that, but He can enter into the actual situation that His own are going through feelingly and carry His own true feelings, so they are sustained in the midst of it. There has been a lot of physical suffering of recent times. I do not know that I can remember such a concentration of physical suffering among the saints as there is at the present time. All that is for a purpose.
TF The days of purification of Esther involved six months with oil of myrrh, I wondered if there is a link with what we are speaking of as to Smyrna.
JM Well, she went through the suffering, did she not? And she was faithful, she had to take her life in her hands, there was no guarantee that she would get through. I think that is part of what it says “and the last, who became dead, and lived”. That should be a comfort in a situation like that “became dead, and lived”. He did not just become dead. It does not say here that He is resurrected, it just says “became dead, and lived”. A very great triumph.
WMcK With regard to the amount of physical suffering among us, do you think the Lord is saying to us that He is intent on preserving what is Philadelphian from becoming Laodicean? Circumstances generally among us are comfortable, if not opulent, and the Lord is saying, Well I can always touch your body, even if I do not touch your circumstances. I am not meaning that in any governmental sense, but that the Lord loves the assembly too much, “shall know that I have loved thee”. His love would not allow Philadelphia to become Laodicea.
JM I am sure that is the truth as I would understand it. And then, the other thing alongside of that, that we have to bear in mind, is that if there is suffering amongst us, it is not just for the person who is suffering, but the Lord has something in view for the whole assembly, and we have to make it our own. A brother or a sister is laid very low but we have to take that home to ourselves.
Rem. You are referring to Laodicea, they claimed to be rich and they claimed to have everything, but the Lord commends this assembly as being rich. This is a different kind of riches, is it not? Something that the Lord commends and the Spirit of God has been pleased to secure and bring—eternal, heavenly riches you might say.
JM I wondered if we might have read about Laodicea, but I thought to keep that out; that was very remarkable, that was an assembly that was verging on being obnoxious to Christ.
DMW You have these two lines running through the testimony, it would be important for us to grasp, that on the one hand there is judgment morally as to what proceeds publicly, on the other side there is the Lord’s headship and His love for the assembly to maintain in persons the whole counsel of God operating.
JM That is very encouraging because that is always there. I thought a good deal of that recently, but we are speaking of the discipline that has been amongst us, not only discipline in the way of suffering, there have been fatal accidents and things like that, which have been very, very searching, and we do not put that on the persons who are immediately affected, we take that home to ourselves, each of us. The Lord has allowed certain things, severe things, in fact so much so that it might be questioned what His love for the assembly is; but His hand of love lies behind all that, and not only does it lie behind all that, but it can actually be seen in the suffering caused by it, the tenderness of His care in the way in which He ministers to His own. I think it all gives us an impression of the blessed One with whom we have to do.
WMcK It would raise an exercise with every one of us, when the Lord said before He instituted the Supper, the hand of him who delivers Me up is on the table, they each began to say, “Is it I, Lord?”, Matthew 26: 22. As these things happen, especially fatal accidents, we ought to say, Is it I? I would say affectionately to those who are younger, since these fatal things have been largely in younger people, the younger brethren especially ought to be saying, What is there in this for me?
JM Well, I think that should be an exercise all the way through. What is there in this for me? And I think we should say, What has the Lord in mind for the assembly? All that comes into these matters that are called accidents, I am not quarrelling with words, but the Lord is behind them, they are all under His control, and under the control of love.
RS I want to ask what some are asking in England and I would like you to help us here. The Lord says, “Behold, I stand at the door and am knocking”, Revelation.3: 20. In the amount of suffering that is going on, and it is very real, is the Lord trying to appeal to us?
JM Yes. I am fairly sure He is knocking.
RS So, what is He trying to say?
JM He is trying to say, Open the door and let Me come in. If the Lord is outside knocking, He is outside, you do not knock from the inside.
RS So, how do we allow the Lord in then?
JM I think the first thing you do is to get before the Lord and enquire why these things are. Not only just enquire what they are, but enquire what has the Lord in this very thing for me. I think as you get your directions from the Lord, it would generally result in self-judgment, making way for the Lord.
WMcK As you remarked, the question flowing out of that would be, What is the Lord saying to the assembly? It is a feature of the assembly because, as brethren know, Rebecca at a certain point went to God and said, “why am I thus?”, Genesis 25: 22.
JM Well, I was seeking, because of the question, to keep it on a personal level, but I think very much so, we have to regard it in relation to the assembly. One of the things that I would say, and say very feelingly, that persons who are directly involved in these matters undoubtedly have something to enquire of the Lord about, but it is not left there. It is a matter for us all.
NJH 1 Corinthians 11 involves the assembly does it not?
JM Yes, you are thinking of the Lord’s discipline. I think we should read the verse.
NJH “On this account many among you are weak and infirm, and a good many are fallen asleep”, 1 Corinthians 11: 30. Now, while it was particularly applicable to Corinth as to persons that were really affecting the state of the brethren, Mr Wigram said that the Lord might choose persons to go through such that are most likely to affect the company, and that He might take away someone deeply loved by the local brethren.
JM Yes, I think what we are seeking to say is right; it is not that you would take your own personal responsibility and push it off on to others, that is not right, but I think if something like that happens amongst us we need, all of us, to take it on. We often speak about taking it on body-wise, which is perfectly true in sympathetic body feelings, but we take it on responsibly.
GDR As to local eruptions, which we all know something about, Caiaphas prophesied saying, “that one man die for the people, and not that the whole nation perish”, John 11; 50.
What would you say as to that about one individual taking on the sorrows amongst the saints, even testimonially?
JM I do not know, what would you say yourself?
GDR I would be glad to hear what you say.
JM Well, I do not know if I have ever had that experience.
GDR Nor have I; I was only enquiring about the matter of going out of sight in a matter, bringing in Christ, but you do not project yourself.
JM Yes, we put it on certain others and fail to take it to ourselves. I think it is a good question, to enquire in any matters like that, What is the Lord saying in this?
APD There has to be fruit from it.
JM Yes, that is what is in mind.
APD I always think of Mr Taylor’s piece on a son being born in the house in the presence of calamity, there has to be something as a result.
JM I think that is it, and not only something of a result for God, but something as a result for the saints. I think all that is in mind. The present order of discipline amongst us is something that ought to cause us very, very grave concern, because the Lord does not lift His hand unless there is a reason for it, and the question is for us to find out the reason and take the thing home upon ourselves.
AML Paul says before his release, “I have kept the faith”, would that embrace taking on the responsibility as to sufferings and what takes place amongst the saints generally?
JM Well, I think that is right. Maybe we should touch a little on Philadelphia, because there is everything in Philadelphia that is pleasurable to the Lord, and the reference here is a very fine one. “I come quickly—hold fast what thou hast, that no one take thy crown”. “I come quickly”, he says. I can look back on a day when we used to, in the meetings, sing a good deal of hymns that refer to the coming of the Lord, but I do not see that at the present time. Maybe it is my own locality that is at fault, if that is so I will have to take it, but I have a feeling it is quite general, whether the holy expectancy and joy that is involved in that “I come quickly” is holding us in our affections. What is the experience of the rest of the brethren?
IMS Would these violent happenings among us affect a priestly person as to urgency in divine approach to the assembly?
JM Well, I think so. A priestly person would be with God, and he would know what to do, he would know what is pleasing to God in the working out of things, and if haste is needed, if activity is needed, I am quite sure that you would not get latitude with such a person. I think there would be the real desire to do what is necessary and do it as quickly as possible.
IMS Well, I was thinking of the nearness of the coming of the Lord Jesus, and those who are near Him charge themselves with understanding these matters that come among us, so that there would be a certain understanding of this particular time and the way divine Persons are addressing it.
JM Well, what I am seeking to do, whether we are directly involved in matters or not, is to encourage all of us so that the brightness and the joy and the holy expectancy and the hope of the Lord’s coming should be maintained in freshness among us. We will be at the Supper tomorrow, if the Lord will.
Ques. It is really an exercise. It seems that sometimes when there is suffering we entreat divine Persons for relief. Would you say that the expectation of Christ coming to take His rightful place and to reign, if that is in our hearts, we would be here more conformed to His image in these things?
JM Well I am sure we would. I did ask what was the experience of the remainder of the brethren, but I just say very simply that I remember a time when there was hardly a week would go past but you did not have some hymn that referred to the imminence of the coming of the Lord. I do not hear that now.
LB I can speak for my locality; we have that experience, not boasting, but the coming of the Lord is most of the time in our minds and in our expressions, also in our hymns.
JM Well, I trust that may be preserved, and we may be exercised about it ourselves, but that is what it says here, “I come quickly”.
LB So, if we had that in mind we would not be like that man who began to beat his fellow-bondmen during the Lord’s delay in coming. We would take account of the shepherding of the saints.
JM Well, there is a tremendous pressure on the brethren in a variety of ways, particularly business pressure and so on, but the tendency of that is to rob the brethren of the imminence of the Lord’s return. I do not want to overdo it, but just felt I should mention it as something that ought to be in our affections all the time.
TFN It is true there is tremendous suffering but the scripture says here, “hold fast what thou hast”. Is there not power to do that? Is there not encouragement to do that in the power of the Spirit?
JM Yes, it is often said that the Lord does not ask the Philadelphians to do very much, but I think He is pleased with what is done there, but what He does say to them is, “hold fast what thou hast, that no one take thy crown”. Well, that has come into our meetings and I think we can close on it.
NJH I am asking the question, do we lose the crown if we lose any feature of what we have? I always thought the crown was a separate matter, but it is “hold fast what thou hast, that no one take thy crown”. I wonder, do we lose the crown if we do not hold on to everything we have?
JM I am fairly sure that would be so, “hold fast what thou hast”, he does not tell them to add anything, he does not tell them to be more of an assembly representatively or anything like that, but he just says simply, “hold fast what thou hast”. We have been over that ground over the two days and we have touched a good deal of things; there is a tremendous wealth through the Spirit’s service to the saints of the assembly, and we need to hold to it, hold it fast.
DMW It says what the Lord will make of the overcomer, it does not exactly identify the crown here as it did in Smyrna, the crown of life.
JM I think it is left open, as I understand it from the ministers of the revival, what he is referring to here is really assembly truth. It is the top note.
GDR Is it right to say that if one principle is yielded the whole truth is yielded, resulting in no power to maintain the truth at all if the principle is yielded. Would that be right? I am thinking of the Lord’s feelings in relation to the surrender of anything. We are not prepared to surrender the truth are we?
JM Well, you might surrender one little bit of the truth and think, well I will let that go perhaps that does not matter, then you will find that you will let the next little bit go, and the next little bit, and then it will be a bigger bit, so that to that extent it will work through until you have surrendered everything.
APD We can have some current experience of what He says, “and shall know that I have loved thee”.
JM Yes, that is very beautiful.
APD It has not just to be future, but we should have some current experience perhaps of the love of the Lord Jesus at the present time.
JM I think that is very affecting. It says, “Behold, I make them of the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews, and are not, but lie; behold, I will cause that they shall come and shall do homage before thy feet, and shall know that I have loved thee”. I think it is a very unusual reference. In Mr Taylor’s latter ministry he makes a number of references to it, but evaded questions as to how it will work out. I think we should have a sense in our spirits that He loves us. But this is really a public setting, is that so?
WMcK Yes, there is no suggestion that the Philadelphians did not know and enjoy the love of Christ, but the Lord was going to make this a public matter that He had loved these persons.
JM I think that stands alongside what we had earlier, the railing of those who say they are Jews and are not. That must have been a very, very severe thing. And now the Lord goes further than that; He feels the railing, but He says, I am going to show publicly that I have loved thee. How He will do it I do not know. Mr Taylor loved the verse and often quoted it, but, as far as I know, did not say how it works out.
WMcK No, I do not know either. It would seem right that when the Lord appears publicly and is vindicated Himself, that He would have His wife vindicated also, for her faithful love.
JM His wife. Well, I think that is true, except of course that here it is the assembly at Philadelphia. Would that be included in His wife?
WMcK I think so, and in referring to Mr Taylor’s latter ministry, he emphasised too that “I have loved thee”, refers to the whole assembly.
JM That clarifies it.
Ques. I was thinking that Daniel opened his window three times a day and prayed towards Jerusalem. He is spoken of as a man beloved; I wondered if it would apply to any of us who walk in the light of the assembly?
JM I think you would have the sense in your own spirit of being beloved of Jehovah.
I think this is very touching, that it is not only that the Lord is to give the assembly in Philadelphia the sense that He loves her, but He is publicly going to make it clear.
GDR This word, “thou hast a little power”, does not imply anything half-hearted does it? Is there an indication that we should use what we have at the present time?
JM I never forget a number of references of Mr A. J. Gardiner, London, to this, he always said the same thing. The accent is not on the “little”, it is on the “power”. A little power is in keeping with the day. Philadelphia publicly would not be anything to draw attention to herself, and I think she would be quite content under the Lord’s appreciation here, “thou hast a little power”. But it is well to bear in mind that the accent is on the power, rather than on the little.
Ques. Does the fact that the Lord then addresses the overcomer indicate that this matter must be taken on individually by us? And it is so important that the Lord makes those beautiful promises to the overcomer.
JM Yes. We have not time to go into the references to the overcomer, but they are really beautiful. “He that overcomes, him will I make a pillar in the temple of my God”. But what you notice, as you go through, is the word “my”, “the temple of my God, and he shall go no more at all out; and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven, from my God, and my new name”. It is a good question. Why does the Lord use the personal word” my” in his reference to the overcomer?
DMW Would it be suggestive that the assembly is such a special company, that the overcomer would make it a special company as well; and to see that it is in the midst of Protestant independence and Laodicean indifference, in which the overcomer must proceed with the whole thing in view.
JM Yes, “I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God”. I asked the question once, Does that go on now or was that future? The decision was that it goes on now, but that was challenged. But there is a justification that it is something that is proceeding at the present time, He is making the overcomer a pillar in the temple of My God now.
JRB Has the history of the revival shown that demonstratively, overcomers have become pillars, been made pillars. Think of Mr Darby, and those that we revere in relation to their ministry, what overcoming there was with them.
JM Yes, that is right. Then He goes on to say, “he shall go no more at all out”, that was another point in Mr Taylor’s ministry, every time he came to that it arrested him.
CSE The Lord said to Saul of Tarsus, “why dost thou persecute me?”, Acts 9: 4. Do you think that would have laid hold of his soul as to what belongs to the Lord? And when He says “my new name”, do you think He is helping us to see how both Himself and the assembly, speaking reverently, are so interconnected, if I may use that expression? Is that helping us to see very clearly what is so near to His heart, that we might love it in the sense that He loves it also?
JM Well, I am sure each time the Lord uses the word “my” it involves that there is the Lord’s appreciation of the overcomer in this assembly, and He appreciates this assembly in such a way that He is going to do this. “A pillar in the temple of my God … and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven, from my God, and my new name” is all very beautiful.
Ques. What would be involved in overcoming? Overcome self, overcome greed, overcome what is natural and many things?
JM I think the things we have been speaking of over these last two days really relate to the overcomer, you overcome everything. I think, very largely, what the overcomer relates to here is the general trend of things in the religious world, but then there are persons who are named as overcomers and they have overcome all that line of things, and thus can be for the Lord’s pleasure.
LB It is for each one, especially I speak feelingly for the young ones, because a lot of them involved in sports and those things would rather have sports than the meeting, and some older ones too; I think what is legitimate should be overcome, so that we can be together in the meeting at every time.
JM Well, there is a simple answer to that. If sports are holding you from the meeting, the simple thing is just do not go in for sports.
LB It is easy to say that, what is practical, but we must be practical before we can enjoy what is spiritual.
JM There is nothing impracticable about not going in for sports. That is very practical I would say.
MN It speaks of the new Jerusalem, the reference there perhaps is to assembly affection; the best things that we are talking about would refer to the new Jerusalem.
JM It certainly would. “The name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven, from my God”. One thing that I am fairly sure of, there will not be any sports fields in the new Jerusalem.
Rem. One thing that impresses me much is that always there is a promise to the overcomer.
JM Yes, that is right, there is always a promise to the overcomer. The Lord appreciates the overcomer. In a day of spiritual lethargy, you think of some person being an overcomer, it may not be very much, but the Lord appreciates that.
APD Is there some link with what the Lord says in John 20, “my God”.
JM Well, what do you think the link is?
APD It seems to be a remarkable thing that He speaks of His God. Perhaps the greatest thing we can come into in the worship of God, is being alongside of the One who could say, “my God”. And it is repeated here, “my God” so often. Is it to come into His knowledge, His understanding, His feelings about these things?
JM Well, I think we need care on that because we must always bear in mind the uniqueness of the Person, of who He is, and that He has a knowledge of God that is beyond any of us, but the reference here to “my God” must be in the range of revelation. You can never get outside the range of revelation, it would be outside creature depth altogether. I think it is as near as you can possibly get to the Lord’s own appreciation of God, His own knowledge of God, but as God is known, as come to be known in the economy. What do you think yourself?
APD As you say, we must realise the relation between Christ and God is unique, but then if we are alongside of Him we would have some impression of His infinite knowledge of God.
JM Yes, you would have some impression of it, and you might understand something of His feelings as to it, as long as we preserve what is unique to Himself.
4th Reading at Ormond Beach/Bunnell
18 December 2004
KEY TO INITIALS
J. R. Bellamy
N. J. Henry
T. F. Noel
L. Barnard
A. M. Lidbeck
G. D. Rosenberry
A. P. Devenish
W. McKillop
L. M. Shearer
C. S. Elliott
J. Mitchell
R. Surtees
T. Franklin
M. Noel
D. M. Welch