DISCERNING THE LORD
Harold J. Glass
Ruth 2: 4, 5; 4: 9,10; Song of Songs 5: 1; Psalm 22: 21 (from “Yea …”), 22
H.J.G. The great thing on Lord’s Day morning is to discern something that the Lord Himself would impress us with when He comes. We have the Spirit to understand it, but the Lord would in some way act and impress us with what He has for us. It came to me about Boaz. He came to the reapers and he said, “Jehovah be with you! And they said to him, Jehovah bless thee!” This was in this great place, Bethlehem, the house of bread. There had been a famine. Some had left the place; they all had to go through the famine, those who went away in unbelief and those who stayed. They all had the famine, but the word came to them “that Jehovah had visited his people to give them bread”, chap 1: 6. The mighty man of wealth is there. He has his reapers, his company of persons. It is like when we gather on Lord’s Day morning. The Lord has a company of persons and He comes in with a salutation like this, “Jehovah be with you!” and we are ready for Him. I think it is wonderful to get some impression like that on Lord’s Day morning when the Lord manifests Himself, just a touch from Himself of what He would say and how He would act amongst us and then to see this response “Jehovah bless thee!” What a company Boaz had in this place! What reviving there had been! Here is this mighty man of wealth. Everything centres on him, and he is full of blessing and the response is equal to it. I wondered if we could consider this. The other scriptures help us about Christ’s relationship with us in union in the assembly. He values that relationship. He would want us to understand a fresh touch as to it. In the Psalm He speaks of it, “in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee”. He brings the whole range of the service before us. We may say that we understand it all but I remember our brother Mr. Dickson telling us at one time that we were so familiar with this that we could go through the whole thing without the Spirit. There will not be any life in that. We have to get this touch from the Lord to get the life in it. Maybe we could just enquire together.
P.LJ. Would the reapers bring before us that something has been gained for the Master, so to speak?
H.J.G. I think so. They are His reapers. It is not just a commercial operation. They have an interest in it.
P.L.J. That is what I think. When we come together in assembly, we should come as reapers. I was thinking that there should be a preparation, a preparedness, a gleaning of something that you have to bring.
H.J.G. I think that is good. He had His reapers. That is lovely. That is what the Lord sees when He comes to us on Lord’s Day morning. He sees the reapers; He sees what persons have been gaining from Himself.
D.M.W. I suppose the thought would be that all these persons are bringing something. The reapers were all equal in that sense. We are not thinking of gift or anything like that.
P.L.J. But it involves exercise. I think we should have exercise before we come together.
H.J.G. Well, that is good. Whether we are young or old we need it. Maybe when we are old we know a lot and we can ride along on what we know, but we need this too. We need to be reaping, searching through exercise.
P.L.J. Reaping involves freshness, too, something fresh that you have gained.
H.J.G. Then it is a great encouragement for the younger ones to think that they can be on this path.
S.S. There is a difference between reaping and gleaning. I was wondering if you had anything to say as to Ruth gleaning behind the reapers.
H.J.G. Well, I understand that gleaning is the way you get started. In the law they were to leave some for others to pick up, to glean, but reapers are persons that are committed and intelligent in it. Ruth had not quite got to that yet but she is on the way.
S.S. Many of our dear older brethren are a help to those who come into the truth so that we all get the benefit of their reaping.
H.J.G. Well, as has been said, they are all the same. “All ye are brethren”, the Lord said (Matt 23: 8). That is the setting when we come together: all ye are brethren”. Even when it comes to who is going to give thanks for the emblems – “all ye are brethren”.
T.v d.H. Is eternal life in view in the reaping?
H.J.G. Yes it would be. They are Boaz, his reapers, they belong to him, they are just happy to be greeting him.
D.M.W. It says in the scriptures, “He that reaps receives wages and gathers fruit unto life eternal”, John 4: 36. It is, I suppose, similar to the disciples, which we had yesterday. These are persons who reapers characteristically.
H.J.G. They are. Except for the history of Naomi and her husband and her sons we do not get the sorrowful side. Things were difficult in Israel, difficult in Bethlehem, but here is this great recovery and the mighty man of wealth has his reapers. He has the persons who are glad to hail him and who have an answer for him.
D.M.W. He is singular in this in relation to the reapers. I was trying to relate to what we have just experienced in the Lord coming in. He eclipses everyone, but He comes in with God’s blessing. They said to Boaz, “Jehovah bless thee!” He has taken his place in the midst. That is the place that Christ has in the assembly. That is a universal thought, not a local thought.
H.J.G. That is another thing we need to think of. In the wisdom of God and in the Lord’s own wisdom, He has made it possible in His wondrous love to have this in each local place, and yet we would never come together without having a feeling that it is “all“. The teaching would be, “all that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ”, 1 Cor 1: 2.
D.M.W. The breaking of bread is the meeting where we come together in assembly.
H.J.G. Yes, it is. These are things that have been set out by those who have taught, but have we really found them through exercise? It is not just another kind of a meeting, it is where we come together in assembly. “We being assembled to break bread”, Luke says (Acts 20: 7). The teaching is all there for us.
S.S. What about this “servant that was set over the reapers”? He seems to have a place of distinction. Did you have a thought as to that?
H.J.G. Well, such a one may have more of a place when we are together in other settings, like we are in now, the temple setting, where persons are distinguished as having something special given to them perhaps, and committal to serve, but I think the two verses we read are distinctly when we come together on Lord’s Day morning. It is such a simple setting of love. The Lord wants us to be engaged with Him. It says, “And they said to him, Jehovah bless thee!” They all said it. Well, do we all say it when we come together? That is an exercise.
P.L.J. This one set over would show that there is not independency. They are collectively together, “And they said …”. I think it is important to ensure that there is not an independent spirit in any of us when we come together.
H.J.G. So, what you raised earlier about reaping enters into it. What have we been working on since last Lord’s Day? What kind of reaping have we been doing?
D.M.W. Reaping, I suppose, entails labour, exercise. What have we been working at?
H.J.G. Then, can I really say that I am a reaper? Christ finds delight in the reapers. I think that would encourage us. If we have not done so well we can get into it a bit more.
D.M.W. Do you see any progress here in the verse? Not to be fanciful, but there seems to be quick progress because the maiden is brought in. I wondered if we think of the experience we had this morning and most Lord’s Day mornings, when the Lord comes in He is singular and there is this interchange. In one sense we get no leadership, it is spontaneous as to what we do when He comes in. We have had Him on our minds as to the remembrance, but we spontaneously respond to such a Person who comes to us with God’s blessing. Then He quickly takes charge. Do you think there is something in that?
H.J.G. It is tremendous what is in the typical books. Boaz says, “Whose maiden is this?” He has his eye on her. Christ has His eye on the assembly, not only His eye but His exclusive affections. That is why I thought of reading the verses in the Song of Songs. Of course, we understand as to Boaz redeeming her, “Ye are witnesses this day, that I have bought all …”. That is the redeeming, he has paid the price, and then he speaks about what he has restored. Anything that there is for God Christ has restored it. But then Boaz says, “moreover Ruth the Moabitess, the wife of Mahlon, have I purchased to be my wife”. I think these typical books help us to see what Christ’s affections are set on.
D.M.W. Is there a difference between redemption and purchase?
H.J.G. Maybe you can say something.
D.M.W. Well, I think we know the teaching of this book and others is that we have to be redeemed but when we get to the thought of the bride, the wife, it is more the thought of purchase.
H.J.G. I think that would come out in what Christ says Himself. He says, “he went and sold all whatever he had and bought it”, the pearl (Matt 13: 46). He “sold all whatever he had”. He has given everything. It is a purchase. Redemption pertains to what was needed because of sin.
D.M.W. That has reference to our histories, but when you get to the thought of the assembly, the bride, you do not really have that thought.
H.J.G. So that is the way it is stated here. The typical books are really very helpful. They give us the detail, they give us lovely touches. So he says, “moreover” – on top of all the rest that He has done – “moreover Ruth the Moabitess … have I purchased to be my wife”. What a matter! We know all these things and we go over them and it is right that we should, but it is wonderful to get a touch of His affection each Lord’s Day, a fresh touch of it in some way.
S.S. I wanted to get a little help as to the difference between redemption and purchasing. Is redemption really more on our side and purchasing more on His side? I was just thinking how redemption addresses our need to be redeemed – but is purchasing more the thought of His desire towards us? In other words, He wants something for Himself, so it is more from His side. I was thinking of the pearl of great price. It is not so much the need there, but it is the beauty and attractiveness and value of the pearl. Therefore, it is what He wants for Himself.
H.J.G. I think so. You get the wonderful skill of the apostle Paul in the epistles about these things. In Corinthians where they needed so much help, he speaks about being washed (see 1 Cor 6: 11). That is through His blood, through redemption’s mighty work. But then in another place He says, “and ye are not your own for ye have been bought with a price”, 1 Cor 6: 20. We know that it was His blood that did it, but it has a different application, bought and secured eternally, secured for the heart of Christ and secured for God eternally.
S.S. It is very helpful to bring in that verse, “ye are not your own”. In other words, we are to be for Him, so it brings in what He would have for Himself.
D.M.W. He uses the expression, “chaste virgin”, 2 Cor 11: 2. That would be connected with purchase, not redemption. You get “maiden” here and then “wife”. That would be the side of responsibility, the wifely side.
H.J.G. Well, we get at it by way of the original thought of God when He created man and when He built the woman for the man. It is the original thought of God before sin touched anything.
D.M.W. The deep sleep comes in before sin comes in. That is the side we are speaking of, an aspect of the death of Christ that we enter into when we come to the assembly.
H.J.G. I thought the section in the Song of Songs helps us about the relationship and what Christ enjoys in His relations with the assembly. The type in Boaz is that he purchased her, “have I purchased to be my wife”. You just get the impression that that was the most important thing to Boaz, to get her, do you not? He was a great mighty man of wealth. He had these reapers which we know helps us to understand the thought of brethren, but then he says, “moreover … have I purchased to be my wife” as though that was always before him. Then these verses in the types in the Song of Songs help us to see what it means to Christ to enjoy the relationship.
T.v d.H. Boaz refers to her as a “woman of worth” in chapter 3 (v 11). Would that give us the thought as to the feelings he had for Ruth, the one who became His wife?
H.J.G. That is very helpful. Because of what we are we need a lot of help to be lifted to the glory of what is involved in it all, do we not? We look at things so naturally and we put one thing against another. We will never understand the glory of these things that way. We have to understand what it is from the divine side in purpose.
T.v d.H. Think of the bride before Him as we gather! The service of God would involve that aspect and our feelings would be commensurate with His, thinking of His great longing for the bride.
H.J.G. We want to develop in this in our private times, gaining from the Lord’s Day morning in our experience, and then we would seek the help of the Spirit to be developed in it in some measure so that when we come together again we would have a more mature experience. We get here how Christ enjoys the relationship, how He enjoys His spouse. If this means everything to Him, what do we prove, what do we experience in that time?
D.M.W. I suppose it depends, to a large extent, on our exercises during the week. We seem to get back to this, “have I purchased to be my wife”. I was thinking of Proverbs 31, and would you say that what He finds when He comes into His garden, where there should be fruit, is dependent on our activities and what we work at during the week?
H.J.G. I think so. I think it is good what you say because everything around us and alas bears in on us and, unless we have very much exercise, would take us away from this glory. The “chaste virgin” you mentioned is for Christ, but we live in circumstances. I am not thinking exactly of our own household circumstances (we should seek to gain help in them to augment this and facilitate us in our understanding) but, by reason of the outward conditions in which we live, we need so much help to fill out our place righteously and with exercise so that when we come to the point when we are to enjoy the bride for Christ, then our spirits are free. They are not hampered because of something that has gone on in the week. Is that what you were thinking?
D.M.W. It is. What you referred to earlier in seeing things from the divine side would help us get hold of that. I think it would help us during the week to maintain the purity associated with the thought of the wife so that we are unfettered when we come together in assembly. We are not remembering our benefits individually. We have before us the greatness of the assembly and the greatness of the Person of Christ, a matter that we can be set free for.
P.L.J. The end of the last chapter touches on that. “Awake, north wind, and come, thou south; Blow upon my garden”. The north and south wind refer to circumstances through which we pass, adverse and pleasant, but if we go through them with the Lord the spices will flow out. The north wind is going to blow as well as the south, but if we really take it from the Lord and go through it with the Lord, that is what really prepares the garden, something there for the Lord to come into.
H.J.G. We need to get an impression of that, that the circumstances and the exercises and what goes on in the depth of our souls, means so much to Him because He says now, “I am come into my garden”. He has that claim and now He has persons He delights in. He knows what the circumstances have been and He knows what spices are coming out of it and He says, it is “my garden”.
P.L.J. And the circumstances are in view of there being something in that garden.
T.v d.H. They are not only formative in us throughout the weekly exercises you mentioned, but they produce that which the Lord can delight in.
D.M.W. I was wondering if we do not get a touch of that in the second expression, “I have gathered my myrrh with my spice”. I wonder if that is the result of what we have come through during the week. Christ owns it as from Himself and of Himself. In other words, there has been the suffering position and “my spice” would be the result of coming through with something formed.
H.J.G. Do you think in a way we can apply this, “I am come into my garden”? As you said, Lord’s Day morning is the true assembly experience. “My garden” would be that, would it not?
T.v d.H. You have the “woman of worth” both in Proverbs and in that chapter 3 of Ruth. Is there a difference? You see the “woman of worth” in activity in Proverbs 31. In Ruth you see her more objectively as viewed by Boaz as to her person. Would that be a right thought?
H.J.G. Yes, it is right. So that we say, and I trust we experience it on Lord’s Day morning, that it is privilege. The responsibility is in being the woman of Proverbs 31, but then we can leave that, it is not the time for it. It does not mean we do not have to go back to it, but for the moment we can leave it and enjoy the privileged relationship.
S.S. I was thinking of something else that I believe links on with that because Boaz said, “that the name of the dead be not cut off from among his brethren and from the gate of his place”. That is Boaz’s side, that is his desire, his purpose. The woman of worth in Proverbs 31: 23 is her side, the responsible side.
H.J.G. The responsibility is going to be filled out and yet Boaz says, “have I purchased to be my wife”. That is the great enjoyment side, is it not? Love would be the predominant thing.
D.M.W. I think we are getting a lot of help here as to what we proceed with during the week as having the objective view of what the assembly is as the woman of worth. That would be having the divine view of the assembly in the testimony and our activity would be in view of this. I think it is very helpful to see that.
H.J.G. So the exercises of the week help us in view of Lord’s Day morning and what we experience on Lord’s Day morning helps us in view of the exercises of the week. It works both ways.
D.M.W. I suppose “my honeycomb with my honey” would indicate some of that activity for He has been the Lord and Teacher. We sometimes use that title in asking the Lord for help in our readings, that we might work together like bees, producing this which would result in something for Himself that He owns as “my honeycomb”. Do you think there is something to that?
H.J.G. Well, all of this helps us to see what His delight is in. We have something to work at in the exercises. His delight is in the honeycomb and the honey that is produced. We get into exercises and problems in the week, a lot of them come about because we are not just working like bees; we are working a bit independently. But even if our exercises have not reached a full result the Lord knows what we go through, so that when it comes to Lord’s Day morning He says, “my honeycomb with my honey”.
S.S. So then the honeycomb and the honey in a sense would represent the collective side of working at the truth and what is produced.
H.J.G. I think so. Then the Lord thinks of His own. That is a lovely touch. He comes in on a Lord’s Day morning and we may feel a bit jaded one way or another, we may feel we are a bit behind what the real objective is, but He says, “my honeycomb with my honey”.
D.M.W. We had yesterday the Lord coming into their midst. That would be the local setting. Coming into their midst would be more the weekly calendar and the midst would be on the Lord’s Day morning when we come together in assembly. When He comes into their midst, He asks a question, “have you anything to eat?” (John 21: 5), and there was this honeycomb. I think this helps us in our exercises. Maybe sometimes I get a little too carried away with regard to everyone else’s state except my own and yet the reading meetings help us to work out the truth, so that what is produced He can take up as His own. Do you think that is right?
H.J.G. It is. We all have a bit of an independent side and, therefore, we need to judge it, but what is the objective? If the objective is to help one another in all this for the Lord, then we will get somewhere.
P.L.J. What would you say in regard to the way it speaks of these various persons like “my sister, my spouse” and then “O friends” and “beloved ones”? It is remarkable the different expressions that are used. I was just thinking of how we think of the saints. There are different ways we can view them in relation to the Lord. We are His brethren as well as His assembly, the bride, and we can view the saints as those who are beloved ones. What do you say?
H.J.G. It is the same persons, the same ones. We belong to Him. He has secured us and really given us these relationships, but we do need help at the time of response on Lord’s Day morning to view each relationship intelligently.
P.L.J. That is what I was thinking. We can take them up and enter into them.
H.J.G. They are all there. It is the same persons, but we need help to be intelligent in each relationship.
D.M.W. Would there be a suggestion of persons who have shared things and persons who He can share things with? I noted in your giving thanks for the emblems that there was something of that impression as to His friends, that He laid down His life for His friends, persons that He is comfortable with, and we can be comfortable with one another. Think of the way He regards such persons, the personnel of the assembly, as beloved ones. That would really stimulate our affections.
S.S. You referred to the intelligence that is needed in these relationships and I was wondering if our relationships with Him depend on the setting that we find ourselves in, the way that we find ourselves together.
H.J.G. Yes, it involves that, but I was thinking more of our response to Christ, especially to Christ Himself, and to each of the divine Persons, of course. Most of us need a lot of help as to whether we know what the relationship is with Him and as to whether we can speak using intelligent expressions towards Him. We are His brethren, we are His friends. He laid down His life for His friends. I do not suppose you could not bring the expression “friends” in at any other time but certainly it is an appropriate time. Then we get a distinct impression that we are His brethren, those that enjoy Him and have affection for Him in that setting. We also enjoy the assembly and then, of course, as the service goes on we experience the relationship of sons, sons of the Father. We use these expressions but are we really in the intimate experience of the relationships properly so that the expressions become intelligent?
S.S. I think that it is very helpful because there is a difference in the way we respond based on the relationship that we are currently enjoying at the time. For example, as you said, there is a difference in the way that we respond as brethren and as the bride.
H.J.G. That is right, and we are thankful for the teaching and we are thankful that in some measure we have been able to take it in, but we do need very much to be in the Lord’s hands, you might say, to really enjoy what the relationship is. I think if we truly enjoy it, the expression will be intelligent.
Now, a word on Psalm 22, “In the midst of the congregation will I praise thee”. I do not know that that is exactly the Father, because David has been saying, “my God”, but I think we could take up the understanding of it that it is praise to the Father. The Lord’s own words are, “the Father seeks such as his worshippers”, John 4: 23. I was just thinking of what He says here, “I will declare thy name unto my brethren,” “in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.” In Hebrews 2 verse 12, Christ has the assembly for this very purpose, for the praise of God, the praise of His Father.
D.M.W. That helps in how we regard the assembly in its various aspects because it is a vessel of praise where these relationships are known and there is intelligent response according to those relationships. That is all in the vessel.
H.J.G. It is. Well, we are glad to have these times together when we can help one another to get some better understanding. I think too this begins with, “from the horns of the buffaloes hast thou answered me.” His work is finished. I wonder how much we enjoy that, that His work is finished. The whole end that He had in view was this praise, a vessel of praise. It is a tremendous matter if we can get hold of that.
P.L.J. Even though it does here refer to God, “my God”, do you not think “I will declare thy name unto my brethren” involves the Father? In other words, God is now known as Father.
H.J.G. I think so and, as I said before, the Father seeks worshippers.
P.L.J. To us God is Father.
H.J.G. I think we have been taught that the Father has never left His place and therefore the Father represents God in the full thought of deity. Christ has come into manhood – not that He is not God, and the Spirit is God too, though having taken a place of service – whereas the Father has remained as He ever was.
P.L.J. So the Lord has declared the name of God as Father.
H.J.G. That is helpful you bring that in because again this is a side of things that we need to prove and learn by experience so that we are intelligent in the relationship.
D.M.W. In John 1 it is, “the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father,” – that which He came into in manhood – “he hath declared [him], (Mr Darby puts in the brackets), John 1: 18. That would be God. He hath declared God, but the relationship is set out there, and I think this relates to what you referred to in Hebrews, “I will declare thy name to my brethren, in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises”, Heb 2: 12. The Father is pre-eminent in the economy of grace but when Christ comes in, we do not have the Father before us, we have Him before us, the Lord Jesus. Then He takes a place, perhaps in a new way, as Head, in order to lead us in the praises that this vessel is to be engaged with, this intelligent vessel, which reaches, you might say, the pinnacle when we are at the thought of the Father as associated with Him, which would be impossible unless we go through the experience of union. Would that be right?
H.J.G. I understand that to be right. I need a good deal of help about it myself, but I think we should accept that as being right. The Spirit would help us to understand that, but this is plain speaking, “in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises”. It is as though if you want to find the way, this is the way you have to find it.
P.L.J. Would that lead on to God? We have the expression in scripture, “the assembly of God”, but I am not aware of ‘the assembly of the Father’, so I think that, “in the midst of the assembly”, it is leading the praises to God. Assembly praise is to God.
D.M.W. Do you think that is a wider thought – it is not necessarily a higher thought – because the Father occupies an unchanged place in deity? I think in the light of the New Testament and the revelation and the fulness coming out in Christ, that is what would lead us to the Father. The verse in John 1 is, “he hath declared him” so the “him” there is God and that would include the fulness of God which we reach at the end of the service.
H.J.G. I think that is helpful. I think we should have exercise when we come together on Lord’s Day morning. As I said before, these things work both ways. We should be concerned about this through the week in the privacy of our relationship with divine Persons that we are proving something, getting to know Them better. The time of experience is Lord’s Day morning, and we need to have the concern, did I learn maybe a little bit more to-day than I did last week or have a little livelier kind of experience of relationship? These things are very great. I think these scriptures we have read show the Lord’s delight in the persons that prove this.
Denton
6 February 2000
Key to Initials:
H.J.Glass, Toronto; P.L.Johnson, Denton; S.Selman, Denton; T.van der Hoek, Denton; D.M.Welch, Denton