Could so call forth response from every heart'

THE GROUND THAT CHRIST HAS WON

1 Samuel 22: 1,2; 2 Samuel 2: 1-4; 5: 1-3, 6-9; 1 Chronicles 25: 1 (to "cymbals"),
5-7

J.D.G. It is in mind to follow through an impression we had this morning as to the ground that Christ has won. I am looking at David, principally as a type of Christ in these scriptures. It would, therefore be apparent to the brethren that in 1 Samuel 22 He in type has secured a place where we can be gathered to His name in His rejection and gather round the Person. It is not so much doctrine or principles, but they gather round David.

In 2 Samuel 2 they gather together to the place that he has secured in Hebron and anoint him king, firstly over the house of Judah, and then all Israel come round to the place that David has acquired. In 2 Samuel 5 he brings them, typically, into the truth of the full light of the assembly as seen in Jerusalem. Having secured that, 1 Chronicles 25 brings out that he now has vessels usable under his hand for the service of song. I read the verse as to Heman's sons and daughters to bring out the touch of the feminine side as well as the masculine side. I know that in the service of God we take masculine relationships with God, but we would encourage the younger people that they are all contributory in relation to what Christ has under His hand in view of God's heart being satisfied.

D.J.H. It is something to follow through; the basis for all is our gathering to the Lord in rejection and providing a place for Him there.

J.D.G. Yes. There is quite a description of those who gather round David. I suppose it is persons who had been under the burden of the law, and they are attracted to David as establishing new ground for man.

D.J.H. There was a reference yesterday to Revelation and it was referred to at the Supper this morning, that He has redeemed out of every tribe and tongue and nation. It was said that all these distinctions are gone as we gather to Him. All these differences as here - the distress and debt and embittered spirit - are all ended as we gather round Him.

J.D.G. Instead of the burdens and the pressures that could not be met, we come to a person who has met all. Before this David had dealt with Goliath in the valley of the terebinths and secured the victory over death. Christ has been rejected but we are encouraged to go to Him. I was thinking of Hebrews 13: "go forth to him without the camp, bearing his reproach" (v 13); it may be on similar lines to this chapter.

E.C.B. Apart from his taking Jerusalem where there was conflict with the Jebusites, most of this ground is won, in the scriptures that you have read, on the basis of his personality and their affection for him.

J.D.G. Yes. I thought that it is most attractive that, as gathered to the name of the Lord Jesus here in the scene of His rejection, the celebration of the Supper takes place in that environment. It is helpful for us to see that it is to a Person for whom we have affection that we gather together. That is a good prerequisite before we proceed to the Supper.

E.C.B. That in itself helps to preserve us from doctrinal or any such basis of the Supper or even of our being together at all: "gathered together unto my name", Matt 18: 20.

J.D.G. He established the ground of gathering; we never do.

B.H.C. The Lord is the great gatherer; it is an occasion that is not announced but we are there because we love Him, are we not?

J.D.G. Yes. He does not scatter, He gathers. One of the poetic parts of Scripture brings out that Joseph had the horns of the buffalo with which to push the peoples together (see Deut 33: 17); that is integration. Then too in John's gospel: "if I be lifted up ... will draw all to me", chap 12: 32. It is the Person who is before us as we come together. We are taking a position outside the camp, outside the ecclesiastical systems, we are still in the great house but we have taken a position outside, not exactly on doctrinal ground - that would enter into it - but because we have affection for Christ. This section of scripture brings it out; these persons had been oppressed by king Saul and his regime which was making nothing else but demands upon them, but as soon as David establishes the cave of Adullam they are liberated to go to him.

B.W.W. It says also in John: "gather together into one the children of God who were scattered abroad", chap 11: 52.

J.D.G. That is what I was thinking - "gather together into one". It has always been the divine thought, the Lord's intent. The ground He has established is for all believers. As we remarked yesterday, the loaf includes all believers.

J.S.G. It began to happen with Mary in John 20. We speak about her intelligence and what was or was not there, but she missed the Lord and felt His absence, and the gathering together began on the ground of loving Him and feeling His absence.

J.D.G. Certainly Mary had affection for Christ. Possibly, at that time, no other had greater affection for Christ, staying alone in the garden but eventually being found by Him and finding Him - "Rabboni, which means Teacher", John 20: 16. Then she gets the secret of what is not related to the position of rejection but more perhaps to Hebron or Jerusalem: "go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God" (v.17).

J.S.G. I was wondering if the disciples' love for Jesus when He was here prompted Him, several times, to speak about things that He had in mind. On one occasion it says "ye cannot bear them now", John 16: 12. He speaks to lovers of things that are ahead, so that in feeling His absence and gathering to Him we would desire to be more able to apprehend the things that He has that are for us.

J.D.G. Those who gather here have a sense of kindredship. It says, "And his brethren and all his father's house heard it, and they went down thither to him. And every one in distress, and every one that was in debt, and every one of embittered spirit"; there was some sense of kindredship in the position of rejection.

J.C.E. There does not seem to be any inhibition with David as to what his past had been. He had a moral history but that was closed and he was able to come out as the Lord Jesus did in grace.

J.D.G. I was thinking of him as a type of Christ in the section we have read and, as you say, he comes out as a type of the Lord Jesus in grace; he is not making demands upon those who come down to him, but he becomes a captain over them. He is one who is a provider of guidance for them. The Lord Jesus becomes that for us.

M.A.J.T. Could it speak of conversion, that they all went to the cave of Adullam, they all followed David? There should not be any debt, stress or sorrow after we are converted, should there?

J.D.G. No, that is true. He is the great liberator; he showed his power to liberate in 1 Samuel 16 and 17, power to liberate them from the power of death and the fear of death. How the women sang his praises! That all precedes this position, but it was not to be the kingdom immediately then, there was not a position of glory immediately; it was a position of reproach and shame. They had been set free from a system of bondage. We heard this morning as to the Son setting free, the truth setting free. There is a touch of more than the truth setting them free here, the person of Christ setting them free.

E.C.B. It could be enlarging for us that in verse 2 it twice says "every one". "Let your heart also expand itself" (2 Cor 6: 13); there is no roll call and there is nobody excluded, but "every one". Is that not the basis on which we gather, that as we gather to the name of Christ there is room for every one?

J.D.G. It has been remarked that the meeting was not announced; it is established on the basis of persons who move towards Christ, moving here towards David, as you point out, "every one". The Lord takes account of every desire in every heart; that brings in all in this room, the young and old and all who gathered to celebrate the Lord's supper this morning. The Lord takes account of all as moving towards Himself. It is Himself:

'O Lord, it is Thyself; none, none but Thee

(Hymn 209)

The response is there before we come; He liberates it as we come.

F.E. At the end of the section it says: “they abode with him all the while that David was in the stronghold." (v 4). It was a very safe place to be.

J.D.G. It is good to abide with David while he is in the stronghold. The ground of gathering is a stronghold because we gather to the name of the Lord Jesus; He has established it and it is a safe place to be. It preserves us from ecclesiastical error because we are gathered to His name and to the Person who has a place in our hearts. We come under His touch and His instruction. In these chapters from 22 through to 30, in a general sense, we come under the instruction and see the manner of His movements.

M.J.E.W. The word "collected" is interesting. I wondered if that was a forerunner to assembling, that is that there is a certain dignity. There were characters, all those that Samuel had wondered at, Jesse and others, but they collected. Do you think there is a forerunner of assembling, related to one another, dignity in relation to Christ?

J.D.G. It links with what the Lord brings out in the gospels, looking around on those who were gathered round him (see Mark 3: 34); it is on moral grounds. He was the centre of their occupation. There were those who could not understand it; His natural relatives at that time could not understand, they thought He was out of his mind. But the Lord takes account of those who were gathered around Him. I think that is in line with your thought as to "collected".

B.W.W. It is interesting, in relation to what you said as to His relatives, that in Acts 1 His brethren are there.

J.D.G. They come into the blessedness of His position as in Hebron, that is the house of Judah, those who are related to Him. They were in the upper room among the hundred and twenty. Scripture specifically says that - "Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren", Acts 1: 14. That is His brethren on natural lines, but they come over from the side of what is nature in relation to Christ, to a moral link with Him, they come into the line of His brethren on moral lines.

The next position that David establishes is Hebron; he makes enquiry and then he goes up. He carries with him all that has been secured in the cave of Adullam - "his two wives also, Ahinoam the Jizreelitess, and Abigail the wife of Nabal the Carmelite". I suppose he carries forward with him the thought of the assembly as secured by Him in the wilderness setting; then the men and their households are all subservient to the move up to Hebron, which would be suggestive.

D.J.H. Are David's own movements interesting? It says in the first scripture that "he became a captain", not that they made him a captain. Then it is as captain that he has this command to go up and he brings them up. They answer to that and anoint him king.

J.D.G. "He became a captain": the Lord proves to us His capabilities in the wilderness setting in the way of leadership. He is fully qualified.

D.J.H. I wondered whether that was carried forward now into Hebron in the way that David takes them up, and then it is recognised by them.

J.D.G. I thought that his leadership goes right through these scriptures. We had a word this morning on the parcel of ground in John 4, the ground of gathering, what Christ has secured and the wealth that came out of it. I thought that these scriptures suggest how He reaches it; David controls the movement and having secured himself a position in the hearts of the saints as captain over them in the cave of Adullam, the place of rejection, they are equal and able and attracted by him as he moves to Hebron.

J.S.G. In the recovery of Ziklag in 1 Samuel 30 there were four hundred men with David. The number is not mentioned as Hebron appears, although it seems from the reference to the two wives as if the recovery at Ziklag was in mind as carried forward. I wondered if the numbering is more a personal committal to the Lord Jesus in affection, and the collective side taken over as we are occupied with Him.

J.D.G. I am glad you mentioned 1 Samuel 30 because it was in my mind in regard to David's spoil. There is what is distinctive secured out of the conflict at Ziklag which is referred to as "David's spoil" (v 20). I think all that was cumulative of what he brings up to Hebron where he has a place of pre-eminence in kingship.

E.C.B. David in chapter 2 is not detained by lamentation.

J.D.G. You are referring back to the lamentation in chapter 1. He is free, it is movement up in view of securing what is established as out of death. Hebron was established before Zoan in Egypt; it is a greater place. Hebron is the city where the giants were slain; so there is established what is greater than what man could do.

T.D.E. Would you say more about "every man with his household" accompanying David. In chapter 22 it is very much a personal matter, but here it is more than that.

J.D.G. It seems to be movement up together. In 1 Samuel 22 they go down and gather round David as individuals, his brethren have kindred links with him, it is every one with embittered spirit as individuals. But here it is more personalities that have established links with David, they are equal and able for moving with him into another area where he is to be honoured. It is not now David in reproach in the cave of Adullam, "as when they hunt a partridge on the mountains", 1 Sam 26: 20. How affecting that is in regard to our Lord in relation to the testimonial sphere! David is now coming into an environment of affection and kindredship which is beyond death.

A.M. In the same connection it speaks of his men that were with him; it is almost a repetition of the closeness of the link. They were with him but they were his men as carrying his mark. We often refer in the morning meeting to His being "not ashamed to call them brethren", Heb 2: 11.

J.D.G. You are touching an area of what we call association with Christ which is beyond death. David's men that were with him become his confidants, he can disclose the secrets of his heart to them: I believe they are following him intelligently up to Hebron. "The men" would convey the thought of intelligence. They were intelligent as to his movement upward and able and willing to anoint him king over the house of Judah.

E.C.B. They would say, "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into his glory?", Luke 24: 26.

J.D.G. That is good. They were in the gain of that. Christ entering into His glory, the glory of kingship in this setting. In chapter 5 Hebron is where all the tribes come up. There is a wider influence growing when all the tribes recognise his position as the one who is exalted and has a place in their affections. I suppose Hebron involves Christ having the first place in our hearts, the first place in all things, and then too we have association with Him.

E.C.B. Hebron has also been related to the purpose of God as having its place before the world. It is very remarkable how much, while not explicitly so, these references enter into the Psalms - "Who is this King of glory" (24: 8), "Whither the tribes go up" (122: 4). These thoughts are all drawn from history, are they not?

J.D.G. Yes. You can see how the experiences in the history are expressed in the Psalms. The songs that we sing in the service of God have been written from the standpoint of persons who have had experience with the Lord and appreciated His movements upward. It is good to be with Him in the movements upward. It is an enriched position.

B.H.C. Would "anointed thee with oil of gladness above thy companions" (Heb 1: 9) link at all?

J.D.G. That is true of Christ. He always has the place of pre-eminence. Hebron involves His preeminence among His brethren - "oil of gladness above they companions". He must have a joy that He can enter into that is greater than our joy. We can enter into His joy and He shares it with us, but He must have an appreciation that is greater than our appreciation.

H.J.T. Would it be right to think of David's enquiry of Jehovah as suggesting to us the relation of the Son with the Father, in its application? I had that impression very much this morning, the mutuality between the Father and the Son.

J.D.G. I think that is helpful. He is establishing a kingdom, and that kingdom, in the finality of it, He is going to deliver up to the Father. What you have said is very suggestive as to the relationship, how the Father would have Him move in relation to being crowned in the midst of His brethren and in the hearts of the saints. It was all in His thought for Him in purpose.

D.J.H. It is like the Lord Jesus in John 17 speaking to the Father: "the men whom thou gavest me out of the world" (v 6).

J.D.G. That is good. How Christ valued the men that were given to Him! He valued them because every one that came to Him had been drawn by the Father (see John 6: 44). The secret side of things is that the Father is drawing us to Christ.

E.C.B. Is there not ministry entitled 'Christ Crowned by the Father and by the Saints'? (see J.T. Vol 1, p.19). I was thinking of what you were saying, the acclamation; 'Received in glory bright up there' (hymn 350), and there He is crowned by the Father; but He is also crowned by the saints. The spirit of this, in type, is not so much the honouring of Christ by the Father but His being honoured by the saints.

J.D.G. That is right. It is in accordance with the Father's thoughts.

H.A.H. Does it not link with Colossians? We give Him that place as the Spirit magnifies His glory to us, and yet the Spirit in His grace retires in that epistle.

J.D.G. Christ has His full place of honour. So in chapter 5 all the tribes of Israel come to David at Hebron. The influence of His place affects others so that there is a complete thought here. All are brought in and he is anointed king over Israel.

H.A.H. Another feature of Hebron was that it was a city of the priests and a city of refuge. There would be no charge against any, they would be completely free from past history.

J.D.G. It is very beautiful how they come in: "Behold we are thy bone and thy flesh". That is the first thing, establishing kindredship with him; then they acknowledge in a very comely way, "Even aforetime, when Saul was king over us, thou wast he that leddest out and broughtest in Israel; and Jehovah said to thee, Thou shalt feed my people Israel, and thou shalt be prince over Israel". There is a full acknowledgement of any deficiency on their side and yet acknowledging the place that he has been given of God.

A.M. It says "David made a covenant with them": does that involve settled relations?

J.D.G. No charge has been brought against them. The Lord does not bring a charge against us as we come to acknowledge Him. Everything has been settled on the basis of His work.

A.M. It goes on to going up to Jerusalem, which I have always linked in my mind with Ephesians where everything is final. We have the light of the finality of things, everything is settled by Christ and in Him.

J.D.G. It seems that the movement up to Jerusalem comes from David: "And the king and his men went up to Jerusalem"; he is going to lead them into the heavenly side of the truth. There are elements here in this chapter that would hinder; so there has been conflict for the truth. We are brought into the understanding and enjoyment of it, conditions have been established amongst us for the enjoyment of the heavenly side.

H.A.H. Building “from the Millo and inward" would involve the Christ dwelling in the heart by faith (see Eph 3: 17).

J.D.G. That is good. "He built round about from the Millo and inward". He has met the enemies. He does it all himself. The Jebusites had been long entrenched in Jerusalem. There was a long period in the history of the church where there was entrenchment hindering the development and enjoyment of the heavenly side of the truth, but fi ally it was established for us. We have to appreciate the ground that has been established and it is Christ who has done it.

D.J.H. The secret was getting up to the watercourse, the Spirit being given His place.

J.D.G. Do you not think that the Spirit's place figures prominently in the recovery? Later on in the recovery we were brought to acknowledge Him objectively, but nevertheless I think the men who went before us appreciated the Spirit's help in direction, as well as the Lord's help, in relation to the establishment of what was for His pleasure here. It is a comfort to Christ's heart that He has men to whom He can disclose things. In John 17 they could listen to His prayer, they could understand what was in His affections for His God and the testimonial side, how He was sanctifying Himself for them, and He would have them sanctified by the truth. It is all in view of the continuation of the testimony and its heavenly character here below.

J.C.E. There came a time when David was concerned about a house for Jehovah.

J.D.G. Once the light of the heavenly side is established and there is building from the Millo and inward - Christ in the heart by faith, Christ in the affections - we have an understanding of what is in His mind in securing heavenly territory in Jerusalem, the enlightenment in relation to the assembly position. He can then move forward to develop the service of God as in 1 Chronicles 25. He must establish this before that.

E.C.B. I was wondering whether Solomon has anything to do with any place other than Jerusalem. David establishes this point, and then later the house is built, but it is all in view of the divine centre of things.

J.D.G. Once he is established in Jerusalem the basis is laid. There are certain things to be subjugated in the kingdom but the ground is laid; so Solomon is associated with the house and the building of the house and the territory secured in this chapter.

E.C.B. In regard to the Jebusites, would you think that they are like spiritual wickedness in heavenly places, which we have to be able to overcome in order to enjoy fully what it is to be made to sit down in heavenly places in Christ?

J.D.G. I was wondering about that; it is an intense position. It has been entrenched for a long time in the history. It is the Christian's struggle.

E.C.B. It is not in order that we may gain our heavenly position but in order that we may enjoy it.

J.D.G. That is right, because it has already been secured by Christ.

M.J.E.W. We do not often refer to Solomon and his songs, a thousand and five. We often refer to the service of song established under David, but it seems that brethren forget that Solomon was a great songster, he wrote a thousand and five and we have the Song of Songs; so something was established under David that was continued in Solomon.

J.D.G. David is the sweet Psalmist of Israel; he sets on the service of God.

I read in 1 Chronicles 25 to show how all that he has secured is leading up to his thoughts with his God. Christ has in mind the service of song. I thought that perhaps the reference to the military side in verse 1 would include His exploits. David and the captains are merging as one thing, merging as the type of Christ as including Christ's exploits and establishing what we have been speaking about. So he can now separate for the service of song the sons of Asaph, Jeduthun, and Heman “for song in the house of Jehovah, with cymbals, lutes and harps, for the service of the house of God". It is a very wealthy suggestion. What is secured in the men is to be liberated under his hand with a view to the service of his God. The house would be in mind here, although it is not built at this point.

E.C.B. The house had been in David's mind for a long time and it is remarkable that he is allowed by God, or stimulated by God, to prepare all that we have in these chapters, with the house already in his mind.

J.D.G. I thought that his personality is developed here. That is what the Lord is developing in us - personality. There is variety in personality; so it would encourage us all to express something in the service of song. Heman had fourteen sons and three daughters; it is not so much the masculine and feminine side but the personalities I was thinking about, showing the contribution expressed by those that are masculine in that sense in the service, but the sisters, and the young sisters, contribute in their spirits to that. We are all being developed in personality.

J.A.B. 'Each with some trait of Him' (hymn 90): it is everything of Christ.

J.D.G. The Father's delight is in the traits of Christ in each of us. It says in Hebrews 2: "in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises" (v 12). It is a vessel in which He can strike the chord and they all respond to God.

H.A.H. I was wondering whether the separation is not so much the basic separation, however necessary that is, but as in Hebrews 2: "he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one" (v 11). They are separated from a natural order of things and even from the conflict. They are distinguished from the captains in that sense. The conflict is over.

J.D.G. I think it is separation to - towards; it is not related to the sphere of testimony exactly. It is separated in view of functioning Godward.

J.S.G. The men are mentioned earlier and later but are not mentioned in the same order each time. It is exercising to be available as a vessel, is it not? The whole of the service of God is to be carried through and it is all under the hand of David. The Lord Jesus is able to bring forward all that is needed, but should we be available as vessels at any time?

J.D.G. Yes. The spirit of fatherhood that is brought out in this section has, I think, an influence in the service of song, yet it is under the direction of the king, under Christ's hand as Minister of the sanctuary. But the spirit of fatherhood is among us. Paul says that in Ephesians 3: "to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man" (v 16); that comes out in expression in the saints.

H.J.T. Is it of interest that, according to the first three verses, prophecy comes in by this means?

J.D.G. In the service of song you get the idea of prophecy, the mind of the Lord coming out in the expressions of response to Himself. The mind of God is being made known.

D.J.H. Do you get that touch in Mr Darby's poem entitled 'The Endless Song' - 'All the mind in heav'n is one' (Hymn 14)? That is prophecy, is it not?

J.D.G. Yes. It is not just related to the Tuesday night meeting.

E.C.B. I think we have our Christian practice too much compartmentalised. We might bear in mind Mr Raven's remark that there was only one assembly meeting and it ran right through the week.

J.D.G. That is helpful.

E.C.B. Just as an illustration of the prophesying in the morning meeting, or the service of God as we speak of it, it is worth noting how often the Old Testament is drawn on. It is brought in as if it were prophetic.

J.D.G. The prophesying here was to be ''with harps and lutes and cymbals". I think it is a response in song ;there is prophecy in the songs too.

H.J.T. We often find that something in a song leads to some expression in praise.

J.D.G. How it flows! What is evident in the service of God is the flowing character; that is music. Music flows, it has a movement that is all of its own.

E.C.B. In regard to your earlier remarks about the younger brethren and young sisters, do you think we may need help in catching some of the younger notes in the meeting.

J.D.G. I was thinking that; as they are expressed you want to catch on to them because there is a freshness there that may not be with older ones, because as we become more intelligent we fall back on our intelligence, whereas what is expressed in youthfulness is coming from the heart.

E.C.B. While, of course, the sisters and young sisters do not take part audibly, to see a young sister attending to what is going on in the meeting is a touch in itself.

J.D.G. We do not want to underrate them; it surprises us in one sense how some of the little ones listen to what is taking place in the meeting. I think we have to encourage the young people to maintain their interest in what is proceeding because there is something for Christ in that interest.

E.C.B. It is sobering for us who are older that Scripture actually says "Instead of thy fathers shall be thy sons", Ps 45: 16.

J.C.E. We used to hear of the conductor who stopped the proceedings because he could not hear his little piccolo.

J.D.G. That is a helpful remark because it shows that in the choir in heaven under the hand of Christ He will know when everyone is functioning. He will draw on each one.

E.C.B. Where you stopped reading in 2 Samuel 5, the next verse says "David became continually greater"; that colours the whole of the rest of the history. I wonder if in Chronicles there is not still the sense that "he became a captain over them". He has the captains with him, he leads them by the skilfulness of his hands even into the service of God.

 

LONDON

22 November 1992

Key to initials

London if not otherwise stated

E.C.Burr; J.A.Burnett; B.H.Clark; F.Eagle; J.C.Evershed; T.D.Ellis; J.D.Gray, Edinburgh; J.S.Gray; D.J.Hutson; H.A.Hutson; A.Martin, Redbridge; H.J.Taylor; M.A.J.Terry; B.W.Ward; M.J.E.Welch, Sunbury