Revelation 21: 9-27; 22: 1-5

THE ASSEMBLY - II

J.S. It is interesting that John gets this view of the assembly as the heavenly city. At the beginning of the book he was given an understanding of the Lord's thoughts about the seven assemblies. These were seven actual assemblies at that time, and by that means the Lord also gave him an extended view of the public history of the assembly down through the dispensation. Then at the end he has this view of the assembly. At the beginning of chapter 21 it is seen in its eternal relations, but the section we have read refers to it in its millennial setting, and the description of it would bring out the lustre and glory of God's workmanship. The assembly viewed in this way includes every believer who has a link with the Lord Jesus and has the Spirit, right from Pentecost when the Spirit came until the rapture when the Lord will come to take it to be with Himself. The dimensions are to impress us with its substantial character and the extent of the work of God in its aggregate in the saints, put together into this one glorious entity. The description given relates to a time of display, but these things are being worked out now in persons such as ourselves, and I think there is present help for us in some of the things that are called attention to. So it reads "Come here, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the Spirit, and set me on a great and high mountain, and shewed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, having the glory of God." This vessel has taken on the outshining of God in glory, taken it on substantially.

A.McK. It is "the bride, the Lamb's wife". Could you say something about that?

J.S. I think it would be for Himself, an answer femininely to His affections, an answer that has been formed in suffering in correspondence to the Lamb.

R.G. Mr Taylor said the bride does not come down here: it is the city that comes down. I think it is a very precious touch that the bride remains, for this time in the eternal condition with the Lord, and then, as the city, comes down in the millennium, so that these two things run on together, do you think? What is eternally known, enjoyed, appreciated by the bride with the Lord and then coming out in administration.

J.S. It is very helpful to point that out: so it is interesting that the assembly, "the holy city, new Jerusalem" in the earlier part of the chapter, is presented in an eternal setting. It is well for us to keep in mind that in actual fact we shall go into the enjoyment of our eternal relations with Christ, these relations between Christ and the assembly, at the rapture, which will be a number of years before this actual coming out in display. These secret relations between Christ and the assembly, which provide the answer to His heart, will subsist there and will subsist eternally. But for the thousand years of the millennium, she will come out as the holy city.

M.G.W. It says, "coming down out of the heaven from God"; to come from God, she would have to be with God and she has the glory of God. What is there for us in that?

J.S. Nothing of man enters into this. She comes from God. She comes from a scene where everything is of God and she comes, "down out of the heaven". She descends - she does not fall - as "having the glory of God". I think that is the glory she has taken on in divine formation.

G.B.G. You mentioned that there was truth here that would help us in regard to the assembly. Is that the point in John being shown things? Previously John saw things. He had ability to see things for himself, but here he is shown. We need to be shown things. Is that right?

J.S. The point for us would be to relate what we are passing through at the present time that leads to formation, and to see its connection with how it will be brought out and displayed. This formation is taking place in the assembly now; there will not be formation in the millennial setting. Formation is taking place now, but the display of it will be at that time. We certainly need the Spirit's help to see the work that is going on presently, and to see how it is related to what will come out in display.

J.A.G. "Having the glory of God", do you relate that to the divine nature?

J.S. You say some more about that.

J.A.G. She has great liberty. She comes down. She is the expression, I suppose, of divine love as formed in it, and consequently she shines.

J.S. So that the numeral twelve, as we have often been helped to see, comes into this setting very prominently, and that means it is the workability of divine love coming into expression. The vessel is formed in it and therefore can express it.

J.A.G. Consequently she is able to cope with whatever situation may arise.

J.S. Well, the thought of the twelve would be that if it needs six twos or four threes or three fours, then things can be manipulated to bring about what is needed. It is just as well to keep in mind that the city will actually be over the earth at this point. There will be a system of things centred in Israel in an earthly sense and the nations surrounding Israel, but the assembly will be over that with a heavenly aspect.

J.A.G. No problem is too complex for her to unravel and sort out and give the answer.

J.S. That is where the wisdom of God will be brought out into expression. It is related to what appears, according to Ephesians 3, in the wisdom of God at the present time, and is made known to principalities and authorities. That wisdom is worked out now and we are being educated for this time of display.

J.A.G. Wisdom is the handmaid of love. If I get Dr Gardiner's thought, the bride does not come down, but the city comes down as in the full enjoyment of union with Christ. Is that what you thought?

R.G. John was shown "the bride, the Lamb's wife". You get a full stop there, as if there she is in eternal conditions with the Lord, enjoying what the Lord wants her to enjoy eternally. From that point he is taken to a high mountain - "And he carried me away in the Spirit, and set me on a great and high mountain" - and then he sees the holy city coming down. It is the same vessel that is enjoying the blessedness of relationship with Christ, which now comes out in administration.

J.A.G. I think that is very helpful. What a view that is to see the bride, the Lamb's wife! That is a distinctive thing in itself, but then, "he carried e away in the Spirit, and set me on a great and high mountain", which we know is elevation, and then he sees the city in operation.

J.S. So would you connect it with the end of Ephesians 1? She is "the fulness of him who fills II in all", and really she is in the secret of union with Him and will be used by Him to give expression to what He is. Is that how you understand it?

J.A.G. Yes, I think so. She is the complete complement of Christ.

J.S. Therefore, what comes out here means that Christ will be expressed in this setting. There was a reference earlier to "Her husband is known in the gates" (Prov 31: 23), which applies in the time of His absence. But then Christ will be known, I take it, through the assembly, and if there are difficult matters to be solved, I think they will be brought to the assembly.

D.D. In Ephesians 3 it refers to being filled "even to all the fulness of God", v 19. Do you think everything that can be known of God is found resident in the city?

J.S. She is capable of taking in what God is as expressed, filled even to that extent. The fulness of God is what is of God that has come out into expression, the outshining of God, and this vessel is capable of being filled even to that extent. Now that does not refer to absolute Deity. It is a matter of what has been expressed of God.

D.D. "Having the glory of God" would involve that.

J.S. I think it means that she has been formed by that outshining, she has a formation that is a result of that.

A.McK. She is the "holy city, Jerusalem".

J.S. I suppose the holy city means that she is still having to do with a condition of things where evil can arise.

A.McK. Yes, and then Jerusalem would be related to administration. It is the city of peace.

J.S. It is a beautiful thought of an administrative vessel having such a place in the world to come. It refers to "her shining". She is a luminary, a heavenly luminary.

J.C.G. It is very striking in these settings how the assembly is stressed. We know that the Spirit has been engaged in the adorning, providing the background to the work that was accomplished in the preparing, and also Christ's mind coming to light in relation to the assembly. But this expression of the assembly comes out here as an administration which is for God. There is something beautiful to see in that, is there not?

J.S. So I think what is in mind is that there should be something of this character expressed in administration now. The city and its gates, its wall and the foundations of the wall are features that represent things that are being worked out presently.

R.G. It is interesting that when Stephen looked up he saw "the glory of God, and Jesus standing ..." (Acts 7: 55). It has been pointed out, He was standing; He would have come back if they had responded to the testimony that was given then. But, in the interval now since they did not respond, a vessel has been secured and formed in which the glory of God can be resident, and then come out in display with Christ for a thousand years.

J.S. The wonderful thing about it is that this applies to ourselves, our very own selves. We do not put this off to someone else: this is ourselves. This vessel is what we have been called to have part in.

J.A.G. It shows the direct place she has in the mediatorial system. The angels are there, and on the gates "names inscribed, which are those of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel", but it is a very wonderful place that the assembly has.

J.S. God is taking account of all these. Do you think the reference to angels would remind us of the service they render to the saints of the assembly? Then in relation to Israel, we know Israel will have its earthly place. The city by itself is the acme of divine workmanship.

J.A.G. The full thought of image, I suppose, relates to this: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness", Gen 1: 26; the whole matter is given expression to in its completeness in the city here.

J.S. So completeness is a thing to be kept in mind. We live in days when things are far from complete and yet God has not given up this thought of completeness. The city will be a complete entity and God is patiently working towards this, working in ourselves towards this.

A.McK. Then the idea of compression has been referred to as well, has it not? - the idea of the cube.

J.S. It brings out in a way a certain measure of compression, yet it is very substantial. Each dimension is about fifteen hundred miles. A cube of such dimensions is to impress us with how substantial the thing is. Yet as you think of the vastness of the universe, relatively it is comparatively small, but it is very substantial.

M.G.W. Did you have more in mind as to what we would learn from this "great and high wall" and its foundations? And yet with all the twelve gates, there is access, but the wall is there.

J.S. There is a good deal said about the wall. The point is that this city is so precious, so valuable in the divine mind, that it needs this "great and high wall", which is protective. It is very beautiful to think of the value of what is protected by such a wall. The building of the wall is given and the foundations, and even the foundations are adorned. The foundations are there in the twelve apostles. It shows us the important place that the apostles had.

M.G.W. So it does not seem to present a picture of what is very forbidding but something very beautiful, very attractive. It is a wall, all right, and the foundations are adorned with all that is precious. The whole thing is tremendously attractive. Maybe we have the wrong feeling about a wall as being forbidding and hard and severe.

J.S. Questions might arise about separation and fellowship, but it is because of the value of the things that are being protected.

A.McK. Nehemiah's wall was the foundation for the two choirs.

J.S. It was protecting Jerusalem and what was inside it in a time of recovery and it became the means for the choirs to go round upon it.

A.McK. I was wondering if in some way there would be the idea of a response in this great idea, the gates and the pearls.

J.S. I think it would result from an appreciation of the one pearl. Every gate would be the same, you would see one pearl: the value of the thing is maintained at every point, do you think?

A.McK. Yes, I was thinking that. It would not be repetitive: each one would have its own distinctive glory.

J.S. And all of the same character. There is no difference in that sense.

J.C.G. The whole setting of the city in its portrayal - for example, the reference to "the city lies foursquare" - indicates the perfection of divine workmanship in formation. The idea of being foursquare would indicate its sureness; and it is not just that it was square, but it was according to the divine plumb line. It would show that the divine handiwork was coming out, not just in the ornamentation although that, of course, was beautiful, but in its setting, the way in which it was laid, as it were, the beauty of it comes out in its perfect origin.

J.S. There is nothing less than perfection in mind. It is foursquare and that would apply to the area as well as the cube. "And he that spoke with me had a golden reed as a measure", that is, everything is divinely measured, all according to the divine standard.

J.A.G. Whilst the wall is very high, there is accessibility on every side. The gates are the standard and the measure of everything.

J.S. These gates, there are twelve of them, twelve pearls, "each one of the gates, respectively, was of one pearl". They are all the same, so every local assembly should be governed by the thought of the one pearl, what is for Christ.

J.A.G. I was thinking of what it says of Paul: he "received all who came to him", Acts 28: 30. The gate was there in operation and so was the great and high wall. But he was accessible; he announced the kingdom of God.

J.S. So that there is a way into the city, the gate is there. I think the idea is that as we come into the assembly, and come to participate in it and in its administration, we are governed by the light that governs the assembly.

R.G. The symbolic representation that we have here of the assembly is to help us to understand stability and ornamentation and beauty, is it not? But we have always to keep in mind that it is composed of persons. It is men who are composing this wonderful organism that is going to come down from God with the glory of God, and it is going to be alive. At the beginning of chapter 22 there are references to the book of life, the water of life, the tree of life, and that is what the assembly is now. It is stable; it is ornamented; it is beauteous; but it is alive. And it is "the life which is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim 1: 1) that is evidenced there.

J.S. We could carry forward the thought that we had in Matthew 16, I suppose, "the Christ, the Son of the living God". It is a living order of things. It is good what you call attention to that the symbols are to convey something. We are not to think of this in a material sense. The symbols are to convey to us what has been worked out in persons, persons like ourselves. It is not something we are to look at just as a kind of picture. This is what is actually being worked out in ourselves. This is the work of God going on now in persons.

A.McK. The golden reed would be a touch of new creation, would it?

J.S. So that you get a sense of everything being of God. There is nothing different from that. It is all measuring up to the divine standard.

M.G.W. I notice the wall is jasper and the first foundation is of jasper, but that is the descripti n of Him who is sitting on the throne in chapter 4. It Is all according to the divine character, would you say?

J.S. I suppose these things would all bring o t some feature of glory. It is fine to think of how that Is actually taken on by us, that we are "transformed ... from glory to glory", 2 Cor 3: 18, the Spirit doing that as we are occupied with Christ.

J.C.G. Everything that is administered thus in this city not only has a sure foundation, indeed that can be inspected fully, but the ornamentation that is the gates shows that what is done reflects God s will. That would be the character of it, would it not? It would bring God to bear in relation to men as they come to bring glory to God to the city, from the nations, for example, and the Jews.

J.S. The names of the twelve apostles being on the foundations would bear on that.

A.McK. "And he that spoke with me" would be the idea of intimacy.

J.S. I was just thinking of this thought of the twelve apostles. It seems to be the authoritative basis on which everything rests. The Lord commenced with these twelve apostles and that is the foundation of things.

J.C.G. That is helpful, and as to the gates, "each one of the gates, respectively, was of one pearl". They all reflected what was of the assembly; each one reflected the assembly; and that is important. There was easy access into this city, three gates on each of the four walls, so that whatever way persons approached, they saw the same thing. That would be what was in mind, what was of God.

J.S. That is all carried down from the beginning. God has not changed. Things are founded on the twelve and then Paul came in. Even as he came into Damascus he would get some impression of what the assembly was as he was with the disciples there.

J.C.G. Maybe I diverted you from your thought as to the twelve apostles. You had more in mind about them?

J.S. It is just that they are there in the foundation. You take a matter like Ananias and Sapphira arising. Well, the wall was there. The gates are there, but the wall was there.

J.A.G. Could I ask if the substantial working out of what has come to us in the glad tidings is the Pentecostal position, with the apostles?

J.S. Would you say Paul would perhaps come into what is included in the inner part of the city, if I could put it that way?

J.A.G. I think so. I think the idea of the cube and the substantiality of that, the divine nature formed in persons, must relate to Paul, but the public thing and what is in expression seems to me to have been arrived at through the working out of the truth of the gospel in our souls.

J.S. So we are affected by the gospel, and the thing is worked out in that way. Take the man in Acts 3, for example, he held on to Peter and John, and went into that prayer meeting with them. I think he would get from them some idea of the gates of this city as he went in. He was laid "at the gate of the temple called Beautiful", but it did not compare with what he found in Peter and John.

J.C.G. Later we have Stephen seeing "the glory of God, and Jesus standing" (Acts 7: 55). That is really what is spoken about here as to the light, is it not? "And the city has no need of the sun ... for the glory of God has enlightened it, and the lamp thereof is the Lamb." Therefore what began at the beginning has gone right through the dispensation and what God is bringing into display in this city is the cumulative effect of that.

J.S. So Stephen was clearly affected by that. The heavens were opened to him and it is very beautiful how he says, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." I think he had the consciousness that there was something in him that answered to Christ, something that really was part of this heavenly city.

A.B. Paul came to light in relation to that. "And he said, I am Jesus, whom thou persecutest. But rise up and enter into the city ...", Acts 9: 5, 6.

J.S. I think Paul would get an idea of the gates as Ananias laid his hand on him and said "Saul brother'', v. 17.

A.B. A man's measure.

J.S. It is very interesting that Saul, great man as he was, did not resent being approached by a lowly brother in Damascus.

G.B. I was wondering if the experience that he had would characterise him as he writes to the Corinthians. He speaks of them, despite their failure, as "called saints", 1 Cor 1: 2.

J.S. He regarded them according to the work of God and it is good to look at one another in that way. There may be discrepancies; there may be things that need adjustment, but basically he approached them as "called saints". That was what they were: "the assembly of God which is in Corinth" (1 Cor 1: 2). The gate was there and it would be the same kind of the gate in every other place where God would be represented.

J.C.G. This matter of "the Lord God Almighty is its temple, and the Lamb" bears on the present authority of the way in which we enter into the service of God. There is a wonderful avenue opened up; almost, you would say, direct access to God by the Spirit of God, and that would be experienced at the present time, do you think?

J.S. So if we have that direct access, then "the city has no need of the sun nor of the moon that they should shine for it;" that is, there is no need for anything in the way of created light. It is reliant on what God is; "for the glory of God has enlightened it, and the lamp thereof is the lamb".

G.B.G. What have we to learn from the street, "pure gold, as transparent glass"?

J.S. It is fine to have this one street where we can walk. There is no upper class end of it and no lower class end of it. It is one street. You can walk along it without fear, in liberty.

G.B.G. So in our relations together, there is what is transparent. Is that involved in it? We would be exercised to be like that.

J.S. We are going one way; we are going the same way; it is like pure glass; there is transparency. It is a very important thing in our relations with one another, that we are transparent with one another.

J.C.G. So the street would indicate the liberty there is in movement and would involve communication. It is not that persons are shut up in one quarter of the city, but there is movement in communications, expressing the freedom of love. All those in the city are those "who are written in the book of life of the Lamb." It says nothing other than that will enter into it. It is quite enlightening that because it says, "And the nations shall walk by its light". They are coming into the city, or they are coming in in view of the administration that the city provides, but it would be as under the shelter of the blood of Christ, I suppose.

J.S. "And they shall bring the glory and the honour of the nations to it." There is a revenue coming into it. Those in the book of life of the Lamb are the persons who enter into it. You are thinking of persons who are really covered by the work of Christ.

J.A.G. Other families, heavenly families, will have access to it. They are written in the book of life of the Lamb.

J.S. Would this be the city that Abraham looked for?

J.A.G. Yes. "The Lord God Almighty is its temple", does that mean that the city is in the full light and glory of the revelation of God and the Lamb, the Mediator, and then the Lamb is the lamp of that glory?

J.S. So do you think this idea of Their being its temple would mean that there would be light shining for the benefit of the millennial earth?

J.A.G. I think persons are directly in contact with God. What wonderful relations they have!

J.S. Now, that is a help to us at the present time because how do we learn how the temple functions?

J.A.G. By asking God about it, and finding out how ready divine Persons are to impart to us, wherever the problem may be, collectively, I mean!

J.S. So Paul says, "Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you" (1 Cor 3: 16). Now, it is a matter of learning about the temple by using it. That is simply what I mean. So we come together for a reading meeting, for example, and we enquire. We are not just saying everything we know, but there is an enquiring attitude that allows scope for God to come in.

J.A.G. I think so. We are sensitive and feeling our way and then it happens.

J.S. A reading may take a course we never thought of. The beginning of the next chapter reads, "And he shewed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, going out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of its street, and of the river, on this side and on that side, the tree of life, producing twelve fruits, in each month yielding its fruit ..." It is very fine that you have this "river of water of life" and it is related to the street. Then you have "the tree of life". The whole thing is sustained in a living way. You were saying something about this earlier.

R.G. Well, it is twelve fruits. This is something the Jew had never known before, because in the old economy there were only seven months in the year that produced, but here there are twelve months in the year. This is entirely new. You can understand Israel being amazed at what they are introduced into.

J.S. I think so. Well, what does it mean for us?

R.G. I think it is the continuing availability of the Lord, the tree of life. The tree of life was barred in the garden at the outset. It is no longer barred here. It is open; it is fruitful; it is producing something of the Lord Himself that is for our sustenance.

J.S. So it is really what Christ is in His own circumstances, and these are glorious. These fruits must be rich. You go to the morning meeting and each time it is different. I do not think I have ever been at a morning meeting that was the same as one that had gone before. You get this rich variety, the twelve fruits, something to feed on and that is Christ, indigenous to heaven. Even the leaves are good.

A.McK. The enemy's attack at the outset was at the knowledge of good and evil. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was spoken of as the centre, but it was not. The tree of life was the centre, and you see Christ in His place here; and then the leaves are for the healing of the nations. That will be a great time, the healing of the nations.

J.S. That must be wonderful medicine, the leaves. The fruits are for us, the inhabitants of the heavenly city, but the leaves are for the nations. I think that has a testimonial bearing presently. There is what we enjoy of Christ in our own souls, then the testimony flows out from that towards men.

A.McK. The idea seems to be that the centre of attraction is the city and everything gravitates towards that.

J.S. So what you said about the tree of life is important for us. God's thought was that the tree of life should be in the midst of the garden of Eden. That was His central thought for man - the enjoyment of Christ. God had to meet all that came in through sin, and finally He says, I will put the tree of life in the paradise of God.

R.G. That is the next stage because there are no leaves needed when you get to Ephesus.

J.S. Well, you will have to explain that to us.

R.G. The time is past for it. In the word to the overcomer in Ephesus at the beginning of Revelation, the time is past for the leaves of the nations. The nations have been healed, if you like, and it is the eternal day you are looking on to when all that is for God and for Christ is in the assembly.

J.S. It will just be our eternal enjoyment of Christ in a heavenly setting. Will that not be wonderful?

J.A.G. Everything is so good that they bring the glory and honour of the nations to it. It is most unusual they usually keep it all to themselves.

J.S. That will really be a tribute to Christ. It is brought to the city, but it will really be for Christ.

J.A.G. I think it is put this way to show the attractiveness of the city and the liberty that is diffused by the city. And really, as you say, Christ is the Mediator and it is for Him, but it is not put that way. It says, "And its gates shall not be shut at all by day, for night shall not be there. And they shall bring the glory and the honour of the nations to it."

J.S. Then it reads, "his servants shall serve him, and they shall see his face; and his name is on their foreheads."

J.C.G. Joseph is a type of the life-giver, is he not? It says of him in Jacob's blessing, "Joseph is a fruitful bough" (Gen 49: 22), but then it also says, "His branches shoot over the wall." I suppose the branches shooting over the wall would be the leaves in view of the healing of the nations, and the present application of it is quite interesting, that the testimony continues and goes out, bringing us in as the Gentiles but still extending.

J.S. So in a simple way there is what we enjoy on the first day of the week and it is right that the gospel follows that

R.G. I was going to ask if this means that the gospel is never at a lower level than what you have enjoyed in the assembly? It is the same tree of life.

J.S. What strikes me is that if we enjoy these heavenly things, do you not think the gospel should take on a heavenly character. Would you agree with that?

R.G. Yes, I think it comes out from heaven and it goes back to heaven so that you do not leave the persons that are - to use our ordinary language - saved until they are safe; and they are safe when they come into where the tree of life is.

J.S. You really want to see them where they belong. If persons are converted, putting their trust in the Lord, and receiving the Spirit, they belong in this city and nothing less than that. You might go to someone who is in dire need and say, Look, the Lord Jesus is the Saviour for you. But then, with this background, in the meeting room there should be a gospel that conveys something of this heavenly inheritance.

J.A.G. The Lord has to say to Sardis, "I have not found thy works complete before my God" (Rev 3: 2), which means there has been a preaching, justification by faith, but the gospel is to bring us into the truth and light of the assembly, to the Lord's Supper and the service of God.

J.S. It is very interesting the way He presents Himself to Sardis as "he that has the seven Spirits of God". The Spirit has been set aside largely in Christendom. You sorrow as you hear of beloved brethren who have had the truth of the assembly going back into systems where the Spirit is disallowed.

 

BRECHIN

5 December 1998

Key to initials

G.Bailey, Edinburgh; A.Buchan, Peterhead; D.Duthie, Aberdeen; B.Grant, Dundee; J.C.Gray, Dundee; J.A.Gardiner, Aberdeen; R.Gardiner, Kirkcaldy; A.McKay, Brechin; J.Strachan, Dundee; M.G.Wood, Dundee