READING 2
READING 2
WJH What was before us previously was the character of the man the Lord selects in a day of persecution and distress to help His people. Firstly, one working in secret, hiding what he was doing. Secondly, one with the people of God before him rather than himself as a centre, and thus conscious of divine recognition; the Lord looking on him. Then he had a kid of the goats, and unleavened cakes, placing these in vessels — meaning, I believe, that he had what these things represent in himself, not simply abstractly as doctrine, but livingly in himself as a vessel. And, finally, however feeble he was, prepared to judge idolatry. The sixth chapter develops these great features of the man the Lord selects. Let this be a voice to us all, especially to the young men, for if the Lord tarry they are to be used in His service. The Lord is looking for suitable vessels to use, like the angel sitting under the oak, watching.
This afternoon we might take up some of the lessons Gideon is taught, so that he is able to go on with the work of God and help the people.
FC When you say “the lessons,” what have you in mind?
WJH One we did not read, but is well known to the brethren; the question of the dew. It was a great matter with Gideon that he should be assured that God was with him by the presence of the dew.
AH What does that mean for us today?
WJH It suggests impressions received by the Spirit; coming in a silent, gracious, gentle way, but wonderfully refreshing. The thing that counts is, Where is the Spirit of God? And Gideon is concerned to be sure that he had God with him by that sign.
AH Really, nothing can be done apart from the Spirit of God; nothing vital can be done in the hearts of His people apart from the Spirit.
WJH People may question all kinds of things and challenge teaching, but if the Spirit of God is with His people that settles everything. Gideon can go on as long as he is assured that God is with him by the Spirit.
FC Would you apply what is involved in the fleece? There are two signs in relation to the fleece.
WJH I have no doubt there is much teaching in that, but the point seems to be that he wants to be assured.
WK Is giving place to the Spirit and the recognition of the Spirit in view of the carrying on of the work of God?
WJH I think so. He attaches great importance to this unseen heavenly power, and if we are to serve God we must learn that power lies there.
FW Is this evidence for the support of the servant rather than the support of the army?
WJH It is for the confirmation of Gideon. If he can be assured that heaven is supporting him, that the influence of heaven is with him, he can move on in confidence.
FW So that the servant is quite right in looking to the Lord for definite evidence, a secret matter between his own soul and his Master, that he is moving on right lines.
WJH And nothing affords that more than the gracious reviving influence of the Spirit of God over the heart, when facing a test.
Rem In Deuteronomy Moses says, “my speech shall distil as the dew,” and finishes by ascribing greatness to our God. That would confirm what you are saying as to giving confidence to the servant.
WJH Quite so. The mind of God comes that way, like the dew. “My speech shall distil as the dew” — that is how God teaches His people, by the Spirit in the gentle influence of heaven; and when the servant is conscious that the dew is in his favour he is now ready to go on.
FC Does this chapter give us Gideon’s movements as definitely encouraged and taught in relation to what came to him in the dew on the fleece? We see the men mustered here.
WJH Yes, he is ready to proceed, to take up the conflict on behalf of God’s people.
JTh And is he to find vessels suitable in that way?
WJH Quite so. Whom can he influence? So the first thing is to pitch his position by a spring. It is named, but the point is it is a spring or a well. That is where he camps with his army.
FC Is that the Spirit in a personal way? You referred to the gentle influence of the dew. Does the spring speak of energy?
WJH The spring speaks of power — unlimited power; not in strong statements and arguments and strife, but there is power in the Spirit to carry on the conflict.
CMcA Paul’s word to the Corinthians was, “my speech... was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power.”
WJH Quite so, words which the Holy Spirit teaches. It has been pointed out in regard to Moses, that the energy he had acquired in Egypt, leading to slaying the Egyptian had to be judged. Later he sits by the well, to learn that in the well there is the power of God for him, and that is a great matter. If we are to serve God, our energy for the conflict and for the service is in this spring. We are very slow to come to this, and hence often use carnal weapons.
Rem This mighty living energy of the Spirit is to be the power that is used in this service.
WJH The idea of a spring is different from that of a well in this country, which is often just soakage from the, hills; but the spring is really unlimited resource, and is a wonderful figure of the Spirit of God here.
WK Does that correspond with what we get in “Spring up, O well?” — It is a springing well.
WJH That is the idea. Then the next great lesson which Gideon has to learn is that his resources are not in numbers. He learns to value the dew for his own confirmation, and he evidently appreciates the thought of a spring, but God sees that it is necessary for him to learn not to put his confidence in numbers.
FC What does that convey to us?
WJH When it comes to conflict between what is of God and the powers of evil we have to learn that our strength is not in numbers. Those whom the Lord would use He would so equip that, if necessary, they would be prepared to stand alone. That is, their power is not in numbers. While thankful, of course, for every brother and sister available, and we would not lose one if we could save them, yet the ability to serve God does not lie in the strength of numbers.
Rem I was thinking of the dew on the fleece — in intercourse God proved him and made Himself known to him. Now he had to learn that God would be his only support.
WJH So that, as having God before us, we are delivered from our fears. The lesson is that those who are afraid are disqualified.
FW Is that why the test in connection with the dew comes first in relation to the fleece, and afterwards in relation to all the ground? It is as if he would discover that the Lord was supporting him by the Spirit, and that God was with him, and what he found was that the power of God with him would thus spread in blessing to the people.
WJH That is very good. So that, as helped with the conscious influence of heaven over your own soul, it becomes the means of helping others, and delivering them from their fears. The more we know God, the more are we delivered from the timidity and fear that is natural to us.
WK Is the snare in numbers that they take credit to themselves in the conflict? God says, He will not give His glory to another.
WJH Evidently Gideon is not overwhelmed by the loss of so many. He does not appear to be distressed because so many go back, for he has learned through the dew and the spring; and his confidence is in God.
FC I suppose his position indicated that he placed them in relation to this spring, he would have been quite prepared if even a greater number had gone. “Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.”
WJH So he is not overwhelmed, because the spring is still there. That is a great lesson for young men to learn, that God has placed His Spirit as available to His servants and His people to support us.
FW Do you suggest that would have a practical bearing for us at the present time, as finding that whatever the host of the enemy, we have to learn individually that God will be with us if we are with Him, quite irrespective of what others may do. I must learn what it is to count upon God for myself.
WJH Yes; and the recognition that this living spring is here will keep your heart quiet and restful instead of being amongst those who are afraid. As God said, “The word that I covenanted with you when ye came out of Egypt, and my Spirit, remain among you,” Haggai 2: 5. Those available may be few, and the Lord may see fit in His wisdom to call away some who have helped us, but this spring is here, and that would save us from being overwhelmed with fear that the enemy will prevail.
FW It should be a matter of exercise for us that there was this army of thirty-two thousand with Gideon, willing soldiers, nevertheless so many of them went away. We might be in the company of the people of God, but we have to know God for ourselves though we are in that company.
WJH That is what one had in mind. The Lord would encourage all to face this question of fear by calling attention to the Spirit.
FW As you say, that will never fail.
WJH No one has ever bottomed the depths of the spring. Distrust of ourselves is right. Working out your own salvation in fear and trembling is right, but fear that arises from an exaggerated sense of the power of the enemy, and not having a proper sense of the greatness of the Spirit of God, disqualifies us for conflict. So the Lord would help us to have a right sense of the greatness of the Spirit of God.
JM God can confine His operations to a small sphere, as in the fleece, but there are unlimited resources as in the spring.
WJH He can cause the blessed influence of heaven to come into your heart. He can make the very influence of heaven, with all its blessed refreshment, fill your heart; and He can give you a sense of the resources available by the presence of the Spirit of God here; so that both sides would keep you free from fear.
JC If God be for us, who can be against us? Do you think Gideon had the sense of that in his soul?
WJH Yes, I am sure he had.
WK “God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”
WJH That is a very good passage of Scripture as to our subject. The more we realise the power of the Spirit here, the more we are delivered from the natural cowardice of our hearts. With many of us, the Holy Spirit’s presence is largely theoretic, hence our fears and timidity; whereas the Lord would have us to see that the Spirit of God is here, and available, so that we may move on in confidence.
Ques Does that mean that the presence of the Spirit becomes a test to us when facing any position? Being brought to the water also becomes a test.
WJH Quite so. There are these myriads like grasshoppers in multitude — where am I to get my power? I think that is what it means. I am to draw from the Spirit of God as power to face this matter.
PH What is the matter to be faced particularly in regard to the Midianite?
WJH The Midianite is the enemy’s attack by trading with the things of Christianity, one of the greatest powers Satan uses against the truth.
Ques Is it supposing gain is godliness?
WJH That is the New Testament language as to this enemy.
Ques Would you say that element may be in our hearts, and we must face it?
WJH Our ability to face it in others will be as having faced it in ourselves. Gideon certainly faced it in himself.
Rem The Midianite principle being operative would deprive the people of God of food.
WJH If we are handling divine things for our own gain the saints are being robbed of what they should have as food. Then the next great lesson follows, for God says to him, bring those who are left down to the water, and I will test them. I believe that is something the Lord is calling us to face at the moment. He will line us up at the water and test us for the service of God.
FV It is rather striking that God says, “I will try them for thee.”
WJH It is a very solemn thing. God is handling each one of us to see whether we are serviceable, and He is using the water as the means of testing.
JM Does the water suggest that we are tested as to things that are right and needful, but we might indulge too much in them?
WJH I think that is the bearing of it. The water here does not refer to the Spirit of God as the spring; it refers to what is necessary here; the mercies of this life, as necessary to all; but God tests us whether we allow them to dominate us or whether we control them and use them and pass on.
AH What is first in our mind — is that the idea? The king’s business requires haste.
WJH Quite so. Those who lap as a dog laps take just what they require, and no doubt thank God and proceed with their true business; but those who get down on their knees come under the power of the water and are sent home. The Lord is testing every brother and sister in this room with regard to our bodies, our homes, our occupations; we are all lined up, and the question is, Are we under the power of these things so that they control us, or are we using them simply as necessary things, our real object being the Lord’s interests?
JC Would that scripture apply, “whether we live... or die, we are the Lord’s”?
WJH That would be true to such as lap the water.
CMcA Is bowing down the attitude of worship — worshipping the creature more than the Creator?
WJH That is instructive. Bowing down is that the water has control over you.
WK Would you say that the things that are given to us in the way of mercies from God are to be held as subservient?
WJH We suffer great loss through many a brother or sister going back; disqualified by giving their lives to their business or their homes or their health; giving over their being to these things instead of using them thankfully, as contributing to what is necessary to this life, and passing on.
Rem So the thought is that we should hold ourselves for the Lord’s interests.
WJH Well, we are all tested. God is testing us as to whether we are bowing down to the water or are lapping it.
EAM Do we get the same thought in, “No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life”?
WJH Yes; that is very similar. Soldiers must eat, must drink, must care for the body, to some extent, but that is not what they are living for.
FW John says we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. I was wondering whether it would be right to think of the water as what we have on the line of mercy and privilege. If we take up Christianity only on the line of the blessing that it brings to ourselves, we shall hardly be available for service. There was nothing wrong with the water, but it was the resting in the supply, making that the objective, that disqualified.
WJH Quite so. It could be applied to spiritual things becoming our objective rather than the Lord and His people; but I am sure it is a very real test on the earthly side, and especially to the young. Perhaps as we grow older the power of these things may not be so great with us, but as young men and women much time is lost by bowing down to them, letting these things get control of us.
FW It is very serious that nearly ten thousand had to go back from this test.
WJH That shows how great a matter it is for us to face. None of us want to be disqualified from being in the conflict in the Lord’s interests.
Ques Would you say those who lapped were ready to move on in the conflict, but those who bowed down were detained?
WJH Speaking typically, such as lapped would undoubtedly give God thanks, they would not be unmindful of His mercies, but they were not detained by them.
JTh “They that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not.”
WJH That is very good. It goes even to the question of marriage, which seems an important matter; but when the Lord’s interests come before us it says, “they that have wives be as though they had none.”
AMcC Would the scripture in the Corinthian epistle apply, All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient? (1 Corinthians 10: 23)
WJH Very good. It is the being brought under their power that damages the soul.
JM Is this akin to the parable in which the Lord spoke of those who bought a piece of land, etc. — they were not wrong things, but they were held by them.
WJH Exactly. So let us keep this in our minds,
especially the young men whom God is testing in view of helping His people in this city and elsewhere.
Rem In this lesson, Gideon is really going from strength to strength.
WJH Yes; indeed there is no evidence that he is even grieved at the loss of these people. On his side confidence in God is continued.
Rem I was wondering whether that would encourage our young people, as taking the view that Gideon took; that the approved might be made manifest.
WJH Quite so. We want to be in that three hundred; we do not want to be with those whom God says have to go back, as not available. The brethren in this city know those who are available, those who put the Lord’s interests first. We all want to be amongst them.
Rem That is, they are qualified in that way to form part of the three hundred.
WJH Quite so. The beloved brother whom the Lord has recently taken home stood out in this city as one who put the Lord’s interests first in his life, and that is why he had such a place in the affections of the brethren. Now, let us all go in for that. Why not? It is a very real test, and we must begin as young men, not wait until we are old, it is often too late then.
Ques Is that a lesson to be learned from Jacob’s history? He spent too much of his time acquiring his flocks, etc.
WJH Much time was lost in Laban’s house, and a great deal of what he gathered up did not help him. If the young men would keep this in mind, that God is testing them — God may be allowing them to prosper, perhaps, in their occupation or in their profession, or in their homes — He is watching, and testing them to see whether they are going to lie down to this water or just lap it and use it thankfully and proceed with His interests.
AH Would that result in being serviceable to the Master as Paul says in 2 Timothy? With trumpets and pitchers they were now equipped as serviceable to the Lord.
WJH That is the next great position seen with these men, each one of them now has a trumpet, a torch and a pitcher.
FW And in that position the whole host of Midian was beneath them, as it says in the end of verse 8. The camp of Midian was beneath them in the valley. They were superior to the Midianite.
WJH That is interesting. They were morally above them. These three hundred men would seem very paltry as compared with the enemy, who were like grasshoppers for multitude. Their weapons were trumpets, torches, and pitchers.
FC It says they took victuals in their hand and their trumpets. Does that suggest that, as having lapped and moved on, they are found with victuals and with trumpets ready to sound at any given moment?
WJH Yes, the two go together. The victuals are food — we must have food. The Midianites sought to take the food away, but these three hundred men had food and they valued it — they took victuals.
WK Do we get the same thought at the Jordan in connection with preparing victuals — there must be the spiritual capacity to face this exercise and to take up this conflict.
WJH If we are to be amongst the three hundred we must have food. Food is available and we must take it.
EAM Were these men marked by having spiritual constitutions?
WJH That is what food would develop. It is a great matter as preparing for our part in the testimony, the having of food. Communion with the Lord, and the reading of the Scriptures, and the attendance to the ministry, are of paramount importance if we are to be in the three hundred.
JTh Hebrews says, “consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.” We need to consider the Lord in that way.
WJH Yes, all concentrates in Him.
FW It is very interesting with reference to ministry, they took the victuals of the people. There was a ministry provided by God, it was available for all those who believed. They took the victuals of the people and they went with the trumpets.
WJH No brother is helpful to the saints anywhere who does not value the ministry the Lord gives. These men took victuals, the victuals were available for the people.
AH The ministry is for all. These three hundred took it, they valued it. Are we valuing it?
WJH They valued it, they realised they could not go on without it. I sometimes wonder whether some of us really believe that the Spirit of God is speaking. It is not simply a question of what this brother or that brother says. The Spirit of God has a voice in our day as in every day, and are we listening to it as if God were speaking? God is speaking by His Spirit through His servants.
FW It is not merely an opening up of Scripture or an explanation of certain truths, but it is heaven’s supply for the need of God’s people at the present moment.
WJH Exactly. It says, “by a prophet the Lord brought Israel out of Egypt, and by a prophet was he preserved,” Hosea 12: 13. God preserves His people by prophetic ministry. “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.” It is as real today as it was at Pentecost. Surely none would allow the thought that a divine Person is on the earth and He is not speaking! Some admit that He spoke a hundred years ago but that He has not spoken since. The Scripture says, “the Spirit speaketh expressly,” 1 Timothy 4: 1.
Rem In Hebrews we learn there is divine speaking today, chapter 3. There is the present living voice of the Spirit.
WJH Quite so. It is an insult to the Spirit of God to assume that there is not the present voice of the Spirit in the assembly. The Spirit’s present voice provides food for the moment. This does not discredit the Scriptures, but the Spirit brings expressly what is wanted for the moment.
EdM There is nothing mystical about it. It is all marked by divine simplicity.
WJH What is spiritual is never mystical. It deals with great mysteries, but is not mystical.
The last matter one had in mind is the effect in these three hundred whom Gideon leads, for he is a model to them, and that is a great matter, if we are to help the brethren. There is nothing more effective than a model. Gideon says, “As I do, so shall ye do.” That is the way to help a brother. Mere speaking is not as effective as that kind of teaching. Then there is the great result reached by the breaking of the earthen pitcher, displaying the light, and its effect on the enemy.
Ques What is the meaning of that?
WJH What God has given you for the brethren here will be effective as you are prepared to die as to your body instead of regarding the protecting of your life as the main objective. It is as the pitcher is broken that the light is operative.
AH Is that beautifully exemplified in the apostle Paul?
WJH Death works in us and life in you. We are going to help each other if we are prepared to sacrifice ourselves.
Rem So that it says, “Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, ...that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.”
WJH It is a great test, because of what we are naturally, but God will help us and use us if we are prepared to sacrifice ourselves. I believe that is what the breaking of the pitcher means.
FC That is the end of every feature of the Midianite. There is no bargaining with one who is prepared to be broken like that.
WJH Very good. It shows how, up to this point, Gideon had judged the Midianitish principle.
Ques Do the trumpets suggest testimony going out in power?
WJH I think so. These trumpets and these lights are what terrify the enemy, but the light does its work as the earthen vessel is broken.
WK Is the force of the word in 2 Corinthians 4, “we have this treasure in earthen vessels,” to show the character of the vessels?
WJH Quite. The treasure is the light. “God, who commanded the light to shine... hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” We have this treasure in an earthen vessel, and the apostle was prepared for the vessel to be broken. It will help the saints if brothers and sisters contribute their part — sacrifice their bodies, their strength, their time.
JC Does the breaking of the pitcher suggest that they are looking for that which is eternal?
WJH That is the secret of Paul’s life. “While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen.” Supposing that by a little more devotedness we live a year less, or even five years less, but serve the Lord more, what does it matter? We ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Ques Was not Epaphroditus a great example of what you are speaking of?
WJH He was nigh unto death in his service to fill up what was needed. The Lord will help any who are prepared to follow this example.
FC The Lord Jesus pursued it Himself. “He... being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well.” Yet He continued His service in that condition.
WJH Quite so. The last section read is a word of warning, for after this period of devotedness on the part of Gideon we find that he desires some reward for himself. They come to him saying, Be our king; you have saved us; rule over us, thou and thy sons. What an appeal to the human heart! Gideon says, I will not rule over you, my sons will not rule over you: God will rule over you. But then he says, I will take some ear-rings; and it became a snare to him. After all, naturally we would like a little recognition from the brethren. In the main, maybe, we have been devoted, we have served and sacrificed, but towards the end of our days we desire to be recognised, and this is a snare.
FW “Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth... and having done all, to stand.”
WJH That is the idea; you are never ungirded.
CF I was wondering whether the thought of what is involved in the judgment seat of Christ would help us. You were speaking of acceptability; if we accepted in our minds the present application of the judgment seat of Christ, and judged every motive and every thought in the light of that, we would be saved from such a snare.
WJH Yes, the apostle said he laboured, whether present or absent, to be acceptable to Him. Christ was his object, whether present or absent.
JTh He would spend and be utterly spent.
WJH Yes. Some of us are ready to spend a little, but not to be spent. To be spent is that your person, your being is spent, not simply your time or your money, but yourself. That costs more than anything else. Think of what is here potentially in this room, if every brother or sister began to spend themselves for the Lord Jesus.
Rem We read of the Lord speaking to Peter, signifying by what death he should glorify God. That is the opposite to seeking any glory for ourselves.
WJH Quite so. Peter was maintained in that. He said, I must shortly put off my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath showed me. Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able to have these things in remembrance — showing what his exercise was as to the welfare of the brethren after he had died.
AH I suppose the Spirit of God would help us to maintain this right on, not looking for any recognition at all.
WJH Time would fail to tell of Gideon. He is a man of valour — one did not read this part to discredit Gideon, but as a warning to show what our hearts are capable of, that we might be watchful at the end of our days, when the service is nearly over, when the victory is won; we still have to be watchful against this great Midianitish principle.