“HOW MAY WE RISE …”

Genesis 13: 14-18; Numbers 23: 18-23; Colossians 3: 1-15; Revelation 4: 1

R.D.P. I was impressed this morning with the thought of what is above. We are by nature earth-dwellers, and it is very difficult for us to rise above that level of things, and yet I believe we had a touch this morning as to what was above. I thought of the beautiful hymn:

How may we rise to Thy vast thoughts,

Or apprehend Thy sovereign will –

The grace that sets our souls on high,

And love that brings us nearer still? (Hymn 116)

How can this be known? The enjoyment and expansion of what has come to us through Christ and by the Spirit, is not something which is limited to earth, it is connected with what is above. We are not in eternal conditions yet nor in a sphere where faith has given place to sight, but neither is the Christian’s privilege and blessing conducted in the circumstances of earth.

The epistle to the Philippians, as we have been taught, gives us some example of a person who has had experience of what is above, but comes back down here in relation to testimony, and even as you read the epistle you are impressed with the softness and the quality of the language. It says, “our commonwealth has its existence in the heavens, from which also we await the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour”, Phil. 3: 20. I am impressed with these things. I think sometimes we find ourselves unable to be lifted above the earth and what is down here. Even the children know that, if you jump in the air, you do not stay there, you come down pretty quickly; it is called gravity. That is because of what we are by nature. But God has come in by His Spirit and He lifts the believer in his spirit into a sphere which is above the earth. Paul could even speak of something very special; he speaks about “a man in Christ” (2 Cor 12: 2), he speaks about an experience that he is barely able to define. Perhaps we should see that our Christian life is not just to be lived in relation to the earth and what is down here, because we shall prove disappointment in that alone, whereas what is divine in relation to the believer takes him above the earth. He is still in the vicinity of what is down here but his commonwealth is in the heavens and he is waiting for the Lord Jesus Christ.

The first scripture read refers to Abraham, and perhaps bears on our personal relations here. Abraham had come through a very sorrowful time, he had lost his brother, and we have known times like that. It was very stressful for him. Lot had separated from him, and you could imagine the desolation of his heart; sometimes we go through things in relation to the earth and what is down here which cause us sorrow. Perhaps even at the present time we know something of that in circumstances, and so on; and here Jehovah says to him, after Lot had separated himself from him, “Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art”. He invites him to look in all directions, and then, “Arise, walk through the land according to the length of it and according to the breadth of it; for I will give it to thee”. There is an area of things which is to grow in our apprehension, which can be enjoyed, that is not limited even by age or the failure and the deterioration of our bodies, but is something that can be known and enjoyed, and there is an expansiveness to it which can be ours. First of all, as I say, I think you get it in relation to our individual lives, our experiences here. Then I thought of Balaam, not so much to speak of Balaam himself but because God intervenes with him. Balak had put him on the highest point geographically that he could in order that he might curse the people of God. He put him in a place where he would see the extremity of the camp where the stragglers were or in our day where we would take the worst view of the brethren, that aspect of them which may be unattractive, not moving in accordance with the camp but straggling out at the back. But Jehovah intervenes and He puts a word in his mouth so that he sees the people of God as God sees them – a much different view – and he has to say at the end, “it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!” He is given an elevated view of things in relation to the saints.

In Colossians typically it is the people going into the land. They are about to cross over, they are not looking back now and the apostle encourages them, “If therefore ye have been raised with the Christ, seek the things which are above, where the Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God: have your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are on the earth”. What flows out from that! Those verses are so beautiful, “lowliness, meekness, long-suffering; forbearing one another, and forgiving one another”. Something happens with a believer who is occupied with what is above, with Christ where He is; our spirits are affected in relation to what is down here. Just that final word, there is a door opened in heaven, wonderful, and John is about to see things which had never been seen before. He is about to be shown by the divine hand how God will conclude everything. He heard a voice as of a trumpet says, “Come up here, and I will shew thee”. It is as if the greatness of those things cannot be shown upon the earth, it must be that we must come up there. There are many other scriptures I am sure, but perhaps we could think of these and contemplate how we may rise to God’s vast thoughts.

R.H.B. It is very attractive. If we think of the ‘how’, Colossians brings forward the teaching of the death and resurrection of Christ, and I felt this morning particularly the need of the Spirit’s touch. We have access to the Father through Christ and by one Spirit. That is not simply a formula; it is the power consciously to enter in spirit into God’s own circumstances, is it not?

R.D.P. Yes, and a whole world of life. We might think of the service of God in relation to what is above, but I think the whole circumstances of the life of God involve what is above. The believer is not conducting what belongs to life here upon and in relation to the earth. There is a testimony to Himself here, but the believer’s living conditions, his associations of life are in the heavens, he lives in it. So when we come to depart from this earth it should be that we have grown accustomed to what is outside of the earth, and to what belongs to heaven.

R.H.B. Mr Darby says in his hymn:

There no stranger-God shall meet thee –

Stranger thou in courts above! (Hymn 76)

That is a challenge is it not? It is a question, I think, in the hymn, whether these things are known or whether they are strange to us.

R.D.P. There is a touch of what is out of the world in Mr Darby’s hymns and, as you say:

Stranger thou in courts above

It could almost be an exclamation or a question. Now it begins with us as individuals, because we go through circumstances in which we feel pressure and sometimes loss and they can hold you down to the earth. But here, Jehovah says to Abraham, “Lift up now thine eyes”. You do not need to go any distance, but from where you are you are at the centre of what God is doing, look in all these different directions, and He says, “All the land that thou seest will I give to thee”. What a concept that is!

R.M.B. Much has been said in ministry as to Lot’s choice, which precedes this section. Do you think that whilst there is the support and help that we receive from divine Persons, this begins with the desire on our part for heavenly things rather than worldly things?

R.D.P. I think that is good. So it says of Lot that he chose for himself. It is almost as though Abraham left the direction of his course to God. He recognised that God would choose the path for him. He had already moved on that line by going out not knowing where he was going, and that same God would choose a path for him, would take him to the very best part. So he says to Lot, you choose, and it says, “Lot chose for himself”. We know the disaster that flows out of that. The best thing is to move in the path that God chooses for us.

R.M.B. Those of us who are younger may feel that our apprehension of divine things is small, but if we demonstrate in our lives and in the kinds of decision that we have to make, say as to our families or our business or whatever it might be, if as a result of those decisions God can see that at least we value divine things, spiritual things, then He will be pleased, do you think, to bring the light of them to us? That is what he did for Abraham.

R.D.P. Yes, and the words, “from the place where thou art” are important. Abraham did not have to take a journey to get to a different place and then God would speak to him again. We might feel everything has gone wrong, and that we need to get back to where we were. It is “from the place where thou art”. If you will only lift up your eyes God will show you what He will give you, and open up to you a heavenly vista by the Spirit. He will do it from where you are. Every one of us here today can have this opportunity.

J.S.G. Does it include the suggestion that even taking account of the sorrow and the shame and our own part in it, God has something beyond? There is something beyond what we have proved negatively, and that is what God has provided and made available, and are we seeking to enter into it?

R.D.P. Yes, I think Abraham would have felt part of the responsibility for Lot’s course because it was Abraham who had gone down into Egypt, and who in the mercy of God had been recovered from Egypt. Lot had come with him but it seems that he had left his heart there, and I think Abraham would feel that; and undoubtedly in our circumstances part of what we have to bear is responsibility for our own part in what has happened involving others. This is a desolate scene here, and God turns it into a scene of glory. If we could only trust God that even from the place where we are at this moment, if we could lift up our eyes, by the Spirit He would show us that we are at the very centre of His thoughts. I think it is a very fine thing.

D.E.R. From the divine side there is no reason why we should not rise to the height of divine thought. God has so effected things from His side that the way is open. The reason we do not is the extent to which we fail to go in for the height of divine things.

R.D.P. So in the great supper in Luke 14 He says, “all things are ready” (v 17), everything is done, everything is provided, and what you find is that it was earth that detained them. It was the land and the cattle, and a wife that detained them all. It was earth that detained them, held them back from the great provision that God had made. It is not only the service of God that involves what is above, but the whole of the Christian’s life should be related to what is above, He has made every provision for that and the invitation is open to us.

D.E.R. The attractiveness of what is above would make it all the more worthwhile to be separate from what is just of earth, from what is natural with people or from the pull of Egypt. The attractiveness of what is above far surpasses anything that this world can offer.

R.D.P. Yes. I think Abraham loved Lot. In fact he is ready later to go to war in the valley of the kings to recover his brother, but his first regard and his greatest love was what was for God, and the exercises to hold those things in balance are seen in Abraham. He is a man who pitches his tents by the oaks of Mamre and some stability begins to enter into his soul. There is no stability here. It is when we begin to move on spiritual lines and to live in relation to a sphere of things that are above the earth that we begin to get some stability. Abraham becomes established from this point on. Later when his brother is lost, they knew they would find Abraham by the oaks of Mamre.

R.H.B. It was said of the Lord Himself, “He who comes from above is above all” (John 3: 31), morally transcending every other, but it is a striking description of Him, is it not, beyond John’s speaking of Him as coming into manhood and contemplating His glory. “He who comes from above” is almost characteristic, and he speaks of “no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven”, John 3: 13. That was said here in what you have described as the desolate scene, is it not?

R.D.P. Whilst I am sure it would apply to the Lord coming from glory, it is not put that way, it is “from above”. It almost gives the impression not just of a place but of a state of things from what was above, and He lived in relation to that, did He not? I think it is a fine scripture.

A.M. “Arise, walk through the land”: would God have Abraham get an enhanced impression of what was available to him, the detail of it? We sang this morning:

Every feature Christ reflecting (Hymn 83)

There is in what is above what is to be enjoyed in detail, is there not?

R.D.P. I think that is good. It is not only “the land that thou seest will I give to thee”, but “walk through the land according to the length of it and according to the breadth of it; for I will give it to thee”. It is experience, it is putting your feet upon this territory, and I am sure there is something in that. You will never know the full savour of the divine things objectively, but you will learn the sweetness of them in experience, in the way your feet can tread it. I suppose it would be true to say that we shall never tread it all while we are here, but you can experience the inheritance of God and feel it for yourself: it is a great blessing.

T.J.H. Do you have an impression of what is said here, “I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth”? Later on it is more of a heavenly thought as to the stars in the heavens, is it not?

R.D.P. Yes, I was not thinking of the detail, but here I suppose it would relate to what was connected with what was down here, the heavenly side comes in later. I was trying to pick up on this invitation to Abraham to lift him out of despondency. It does not say that but you get the impression that he was desolate. He had seen Lot go and pitch his tent as far as Sodom and you can imagine the feelings of Abraham’s heart as he would see his brother go there, despondency, and then God says to Him, You look up from where you are now. It is necessary for us to lift our eyes up because there is no salvation, there is no blessing and no lasting joy connected with earth.

T.J.H. Our brother was suggesting as to separation, which we need to bear in mind; is it not suggestive of God’s thoughts being wide but our feet in a narrow path. Then very quickly he comes to an upward look when he comes to the oaks of Mamre, and he built there an altar to Jehovah.

R.D.P. Yes, I do not think He is showing him a narrow path here but rather the full expanse of His thoughts. The land that was given to them actually stretched eventually as far as the Euphrates, did it not? It was vast, and even in the experience of the people of Israel they took up only a very small part of it in the ways of God, but the vastness of it was before Him. It was to the north and the south and the east and the west; it is all the directions of the compass and all that that involved, and He says, “I will give it to thee”. As a result of it, it says, “Abram moved his tents, and came and dwelt by the oaks of Mamre”, and becomes related to the purpose of God.

G.C.B. I suppose it was not a great move – say more about that. He was already in relation to God, he was free and God was free to speak to him. Is it like the move from Romans to Colossians, and Colossians to Ephesians. Are we always to be prepared for something nearer to the fulness of God’s purpose?

R.D.P. I believe so. He “moved his tents, and came and dwelt by the oaks of Mamre, which are in Hebron”. As you say, it is not as if he seemed to undertake a vast journey, but he just went and moved to a different place. Maybe we need to do that. You may say, here we are in our circumstances, we cannot change our circumstances overnight, but perhaps if we moved our tents by the oaks of Mamre it would begin to make a change in relation to everything that we did. I like what you say; there is no great physical distance involved in this but there is a change of position.

J.S.G. I am thankful for what our brother brings in. I wondered whether it is a lesson for us that we need to look for what is ahead before we walk there, before we move there. If we really feel that we are going through things in Romans, as we ought to with the Spirit’s help, we should have our eye on Ephesians. God has something great in view Himself beyond anything that we could have conceived, and the experimental side is essential to possession, is it not? The thought of inheritance and possession seems to be stressed here, that it would be yours. Everybody should be interested in that, should they not?

R.D.P. I think so. “Where there is no vision the people cast off restraint”, Prov 29: 18. So that as you take up Romans you have Ephesians ahead. That is what Paul had in the writing of it, you see that. The people cast off restraint where there is no vision, where you are not lifting up your eyes. You can be amongst the saints at the present time and see only weakness and failure and problems. Well lift up your eyes and ask the Spirit of God to give you some vision, because the enemy will try to grind us into the ground, and if I am like that I am no use in what God is doing amongst the saints at the present time.

J.S.G. Just to speak practically as to what we commit ourselves to; I confess that I have found Mr. Stoney’s ministry so challenging that I wondered how much I could read. I am really longing to read more of it. I have not read it all yet, but I think that we should have in view that even if there is experimental demand, the things that God has in mind are really great.

R.D.P. I believe that is right, because along with the view there always comes a challenge and along with that will come power. I think that is why you get Paul’s two prayers in Ephesus. Firstly in chapter 1 he says, “I also, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which is in you, and the love which ye have towards all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you … at my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, would give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowledge of him” (vv 15-17). I think that is like vision. But then the second prayer in chapter 3 brings in the power for it, where he bows his knees to the Father, “of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named … to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man” (vv 15,16). There is something here I think. The challenge is there but along with the challenge is the power to take it up.

D.E.R. What Abraham had to lift up his eyes to was the inheritance, and we have a rich inheritance. But just as Israel was reluctant to go up into the land of their inheritance and possess it, so we may be; so that it involves, as I think our brother has been indicating, the exercises of Romans, the Passover and the passage of the Red Sea, the overcoming Amalek, the conflict in the wilderness and then the brazen serpent and the springing well, all with a view to our crossing the Jordan into the land where there is the stability of Mamre.

R.D.P. That is right, and the challenge is that when you trace the journeys of the children of Israel, in a very short time they begin to murmur and look back, and then their memories grew more and more vivid as they went along. They remembered things they probably never had, they remembered the leeks and the onions and the garlic, and all the things about Egypt. Let us remember what was said as to gravity. By nature we will always drop back to the ground, we will do it, and we need help to rise up.

The power of the Spirit of God is available and there is teaching and help but I believe we always need what is deliberate. I think Colossians brings that out, set your mind upon it. I like what our brother said that he started on Mr. Stoney and he is going to keep going at it. Well, that is good. My thought today is that not only the service of God, but the whole of Christian life is to be lived at elevation, and that is what I would like to know more about.

R.H.B. If our brother keeps going with Mr Stoney, he is not only going to get lifted up himself but we are going to get the benefit of it too. That is the point, is it not, that it is those who have experience in the things that you are speaking about that are able to help others in them.

R.D.P. I am sure that is right. I would encourage the younger people to read. I find Mr Stoney is very graphic in his writings and his illustrations help you, and you remember them. He says, for instance, you do not learn to play the piano by always playing the same piece, you go on to something a little more difficult, and these things help us, and we find that there is more beyond. And it is not just about reading ministry and acquiring knowledge; it is about the experience of being with God in relation to His great things.

D.E.R. Israel came into the inheritance to the extent to which they put their foot upon the land. That is the word, is it not, in the beginning of Joshua, that God has in mind that they should come into the fulness and the richness of all that is in His thoughts for us. But we need to go in for them experimentally to get the gain of them.

R.D.P. That is right, and then you will find that despite the fact that the enemy will dog every step you take, the Spirit of God is there to strengthen you in that. You find that they failed when they got into the land because they did not dispossess things, and these are all the exercises of the way. But undoubtedly for us the whole of heavenly experience is open for us.

Now just briefly as to the other scriptures – what a thing it is to see the saints as God sees them! We have often said that this view in Numbers is the saints at their worst, and we can get heavily detained by the extremity of the camp. You may say there were things there in the camp of Israel which were not attractive. The stragglers of the camp of Israel were there. Balak indicates to Balaam, the prophet he had hired to curse the people, that he would take him to a place where he could see the extremity of them, that is all he could see. All you will see about the brethren is the bad things; it is possible to conduct our lives and almost relish the negative things amongst the brethren, it is possible to do that. But that is not Christianity, it is not what it is. God intervenes with Balaam and puts a word in his mouth, and he says, “God brought him out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of a buffalo” and “Jehovah his God is with him, and the shout of a king is in his midst”. These are very precious things, are they not? You get an elevated view of the saints, of something that is above the earth.

R.H.B. I was thinking that if you get a view of that you must see the saints as God sees them, “apprehend with all the saints” (Eph 3: 18), God’s elect. It is not just a personal view, is it, but what you are speaking of, what is heavenly, must involve the saints according to God’s thoughts about them? Is that your thought?

R.D.P. It is very striking that you should quote that, “apprehend with all the saints”. You might have thought he could have said apprehend with divine Persons, but “with all the saints”. It is as if you are not going to enjoy it in its fulness without them. Here it is, “the shout of a king is in his midst”. I wonder if we could discern that at the present time. You say, well, does it apply at the present time? I believe it applies at the present time that the shout of a King is amongst His people. It says He has “brought him out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of a buffalo. For there is no enchantment against Jacob, neither is there any divination against Israel”. Jacob and Israel are the saints in the purpose of God and in the ways of God, both of them. He says, in that day it will be said of both, Jacob and Israel, “What hath God wrought!”. What wonderful things these are, but it is from an elevated view.

A.M. He did not hear the murmurings in the tents and things that might have occupied those who were there, but from this point of view he says, “He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob”.

R.D.P. Yes, think of having a view like that. You say, well, you are being naïve. I do not believe it is naïve actually, but seeing things as God sees them.

A.M. He speaks of himself later as a man of opened eye (see Num 24: 3).

R.D.P. He does, yes, and there is a note of remorse with him, he says, “I shall see him, but not now; I shall behold him, but not nigh”, Num 24: 17. Balaam is a man who goes to his own end, as far as we see from scripture, he is lost, and yet he is forced to use these words about the people of God, and God puts those words there. It cannot be without point that these words are in the scriptures for us.

C.C.D.R. I was thinking of your encouragement, “Lift up now thine eyes”. There is much just in those few words, is there not? I was thinking of Isaac meditating in the field. He lifted up his eyes and it is amazing what he saw coming to him by way of provision and support, and his wife too of course.

R.D.P. Very good, you mean in relation to Rebecca coming, the camels were coming.

C.C.D.R. Exactly.

R.D.P. The camels were coming. Think of the anticipation of Christ as He lifts up His eyes, and she lifts up her eyes, and there is a meeting, is there not? That is a good scripture. In a certain sense the lifting up of the eyes is to be characteristic, it is an assembly feature, and it meets what there is in Christ, because part of the link of the union between Rebecca and Isaac was that first meeting of the eyes. It is remarkable that it says that.

R.H.B. I do not want to lower the level, but it is remarkable that man can do that physically, is it not? Much of the lower creation is unable to do that, their eyes are permanently fixed on the ground and on the earth, but man has that ability physically which is indicative of something, is it?

R.D.P. Well, I had not thought of that. It would be indicative, I suppose, of the fact that God has especially intervened in relation to man, and what man’s spirit is, the ability to look up; and it is almost as though scripture reminds us constantly to look up, to look away from the place where you are. We are spending too much time perhaps looking at the ground and need to see that God has given us this provision to be able to lift up our eyes and see things as He sees them. He has taken on the saints, He is not going to change His mind about them. Everything that enters into this present time, and what will happen between now and the Lord’s coming was known when He took them on and He is not going to change His mind. Now let us lift up our eyes from the place where we are and see north, south, east and west.

A.M. It is what God has done, is it not? “At this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!”, as to Abraham it is, “I will give to thee”. It is a question of what God is doing. In men’s hands things fail, but what God does will never break down.

R.D.P. Very fine. We can see that objectively in Christ, man will be secured eternally through His precious work and the shedding of His blood, and the thoughts of God for men chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, but it says, “it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!”. There is going to be an answer, worked out sometimes through circumstances of turmoil in the saints, which will answer to the fulness of His thoughts. What a triumph it will be!

R.M.B. What does this mean for us in practice, lifting up our eyes? What I am thinking is that if, shall we say, as a result of this occasion the exercise is stimulated with us to answer to the challenge, how do we go about it, where do we start?

R.D.P. Well, you tell us how you would start please.

R.M.B. I was thinking on a very simple level, I suppose one place would be to read the Scriptures, do you think? The New Testament in particular gives us God’s thoughts about us, does it not? Do you think one place to start would be to make time each day to read the Scriptures and to pray about them?

R.D.P. Well, I believe that might bring us to Colossians because I do think that what is deliberate enters into the things of God. “If therefore ye have been raised with the Christ, seek the things which are above, where the Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God: have your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are on the earth”. It is almost as if he is saying, you are about to go into the land, the world really now is behind you, your faces are turned towards God’s inheritance, you are going to go into there, now set your mind on it and seek it. Do you think there is something deliberate in that? He says, “not on the things that are on the earth”. I have probably said this many times before, but if I ask everyone here to take a piece of paper and write down the things that are upon the earth, they could probably make a long list. The young people could write down the things that are upon the earth, they could write down their school aims, their jobs, their careers and relationships, ambitions, and so on; and then if I said on the other side of the paper write the things which are above, you would probably find the list is much shorter. But here he is saying, set your mind on those things. The things that are down here are going to last fifty, sixty years, seventy years perhaps at most, the things that are above are what you are going to live in eternally. So set your mind on that. I do think that what is deliberate enters into it, a deliberate step of setting our minds. I think we need to do it every day.

R.M.B. Yes, and reading the ministry has been referred to. I suppose what we get in the ministry is the fruit of men who have walked through the land; the fruit of what they came to? But since you raise the point, what would you say are some of the things that are above?

R.D.P. I can only tell you what I do remember reading in ministry, not today but previously, that that list in Hebrews is perhaps some indication. It says, “ye have come to mount Zion; and to the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem; and to myriads of angels … and to Jesus”, Heb 12: 22-24. You can see that they are things that are not bounded by earth, “the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven”. It has been suggested that that may be some suggestion as to it, but it is left open, it is really left for enquiry and for us to find out. You are going to live in relation to these things for ever. Are you going to go there and not know anything about it at all? And yet you have the Spirit of God. We have the Scriptures. The Scriptures at times do not give us much detail, do they, as to what is eternal, for instance? It is almost as if that is to be found out with Christ and by the Spirit.

R.M.B. Again, we can be simple about it can we not? Would it include such things as the glory of being part of the assembly? Is that something that we appreciate? Would it include such things as sonship, the fact that we are the sons of God? Then we get these expressions in the New Testament as to being in Christ, well, what does that mean? That is a whole area for us to explore is it not?

R.D.P. I am sure it is, set your mind upon it, and then find out more about that. Put your feet upon that bit of the territory, make if your own. In order to do that it is more than just reading ministry, it involves making that truth mine. So that we can say that, not only have we acquired knowledge, but we have learned God in the treading of the territory as Abraham was invited to do.

G.C.B. As to making this a matter of prayer that we should get into these things, do you think that many of our earthly matters we could just mention to the Father, but the things that are above need more time spent on them with divine Persons? The needs of the saints spiritually may be agonised over, but the earthly things, matters in our circumstances can well be mentioned in confidence to the Father and left with Him, can they not?

R.D.P. I think so. It says, “enter into thy chamber, and … pray to thy Father which is in secret”, Matt 6: 6. I think our brother mentioned what was simple, and perhaps we need that, that we do have things to care for here, we have responsibilities here and they are not taken away. We have things which need to be discharged, but that is not your life. Your life is in the things that are above, your commonwealth is in the heavens. I am trying to bring some simple illustration into this. If you are going abroad to a country for the first time you would buy books to find out something about the area, a map, for instance, and other guides. You have not seen it yet but you find out about it, you find out some of the interesting features of it. Go in for these things more and take time. Paul says to the Philippians, “Not that I have already obtained the prize”, and he says, “if any way I arrive at the resurrection from among the dead”, Phil 3: 11,12. It is almost as if one of the things that Paul had before him was, What was the truth and experience of the resurrection from among the dead? He had not arrived there yet. That is remarkable when you think of the capacity of Paul the apostle.

G.C.B. I recently read one of the volumes of Collected Writings as to that. Mr Darby makes a lot of just the point you made, that Paul had not arrived, that he was striving as to it.

R.D.P. Yes, and then he was striving as to the completion of his course, and the goal. That involved time, of course – you mentioned time – and God was going to use it, but there were things in time, like the resurrection from among the dead. I suspect that most of us would be surprised that Paul should admit that. Perhaps some might even be bold enough to say, We will tell you about it. But Paul said, I have not arrived at it yet, almost as if his feet were still to tread securely and worshipfully on the ground of the resurrection from among the dead and what that involved.

D.E.R. Colossians envisages persons who not only appreciate the fact that Christ has died for us, but have come to it that we have died with Him. If we are to enter into the things which are above, there must be some appreciation of the fact that we have died with Christ and to be found in the gain of having died with Christ, because we have our mind on the things above he goes on to say, “for ye have died, and your life is hid with the Christ in God”.

R.D.P. Yes, and as you say, it is with Him, died with Him and raised with Him. Therefore I think this journey is conducted with Him. It is not something that is towards Him exactly, but with Him. I think the taking up of spiritual things involves Christ’s presence and nearness, and of course the power of the Holy Spirit. But let these things be with us. If you spoke about this in the lecture rooms of the world they would not know what you are talking about. The things of the earth would have relevance, they would fill up your mind and your time with the things that are of the earth, and many of them are interesting things but they are limited by time. But here you have something that as to its scope is boundless. I question whether you will ever reach the limit of the things that are above because they are eternal things, and they are open to us at the present time.

I just thought of that scripture in Revelation, “a door opened in heaven”, and he says, “Come up here, and I will shew thee the things which must take place after these things”. I am not suggesting that the saints get involved in prophecy, but I think the great thoughts and judgments of God that we were speaking of yesterday are something that the believer considers worshipfully, and the great movements in Revelation in the concluding of everything involve the saints. As we said yesterday, “God has judged your judgment upon her” (Rev 18: 20), but I think that these things are to be seen from an elevated sphere.

D.E.R. Before we close, just say something about the Spirit’s service, because it is the Spirit’s power alone which will help us to go through that heavenly door.

R.D.P. Yes, that is good, “I became in the Spirit on the Lord’s day”, Rev 1: 10. You get these two references to becoming in the Spirit in Revelation. You get one before the addresses to the assembly, and that is significant, and then when this door is opened in heaven “I became in the Spirit”, it must involve that.

 

EAST FINCHLEY

2 January 2005

 

 

Key to initials

R.H. Brown; R.M.Brown; G.C.Bywater, Buckhurst Hill; J.S.Gray; T.J.Harvey;

A.Martin, Buckhurst Hill; R.D.Plant, Birmingham; C.C.D.Remmington, St. Albans; D.E.Remmington, St. Albans