THE CERTAINTY OF THINGS IN CHRISTIANITY

Luke 1: 1–4; Acts 2: 42, 43; 7: 54–60; 20: 26, 27

DBR I was thinking of the verse in Luke 1, “that thou mightest know the certainty of those things in which thou hast been instructed”. We live in a day when the truth is being greatly eroded, great attempts being made to overcome it, and I thought it might be helpful and encouraging to consider this matter of certainty. Luke obviously is concerned that Theophilus should have it. He speaks earlier about the “matters fully believed among us”.

That would be a very important matter for all of us to face as to what is “fully believed among us”. It is a Pauline expression, fully persuaded, fully believed. We could have considered some verses throughout the gospel of Luke because he writes with a certain moral order, not merely matters as they happen. Many of these would bring certainty into our souls, but I thought we should firstly consider the apostle’s doctrine, the apostle’s teaching. These men served in the initial period of the establishing of Christianity; they had the light of the fact that God had vested authority in Christ in his position of exaltation. These apostles represented the authority of Christ and there were those who appreciated that, they persevered in the apostle’s teaching. These men have to be respected, their teaching is to be respected, for they suffered to establish the foundations of Christianity. When we come to Stephen we find that he suffered to maintain the truth, but the apostles established it foundationally. I think we see something of the character of the pearl in Stephen. This will be seen in the gates of the city, each gate of one pearl (Revelation 21: 21). A pearl is formed through suffering, and the glory of it will shine administratively in the world to come. That glory shone in Stephen. I thought we see in Stephen the character of man that fits into the system of Christianity. When we come to Paul it is finality. I believe before Paul was taken that every part of the counsel of God was brought to light. Paul’s ministry is final. Perhaps we could speak of these things and see what comes to light, first of all in the apostles, and then in Stephen, and then in Paul. I think this brings us into a great area of certainty, and that is something that we all need in these days, do you think?

DAS Yes I do. Do you think that Luke had remained in the company of Paul, “Luke alone is with me” (2 Timothy 4: 11), he says at one point, so that he had learned everything more or less from Paul, do you think as following him and being with him? He is accurately acquainted with the truth; that is quite an important point to be accurately acquainted with the truth. It is always amazing to me that there are two whole books written to one man. It shows the divine disposition as expressed in Luke that such an amount of doctrine should be preserved. Is that for us, for our day?

DBR That is very helpful and very good that one man should be the object of such care and such diligence. The whole scope in Luke’s mind is being opened out to this man, not merely an historic account, but I think the whole vista of the Christian system has been opened up to Theophilus, do you think?

DAS Luke was not an eye-witness but he was an attendant; is that not the point?

DBR “Those who from the beginning were eye-witnesses of and attendants on the Word”. What is your thought about that?

DAS Well I do not think it was merely doctrine, it was seen, he expressed it, Paul did and others. It is an important point; we may know the doctrine but are we attending to it?

DBR It is never better expressed than when it is expressed in persons. It was seen in Luke and in those too who companied with Paul. It was seen in Paul himself, he not only presented the truth but he represented the formation of the truth.

JDG The certainty of everything is seen in the Word; the source of all is in the Word, Christ is presented in that way, bringing in the mind of God; He is the source of all.

DBR All is in Him, “accurately acquainted from the origin with all things”. The origin would refer to the incarnation. We were seeing recently, that had it not been for the incarnation the whole of the Old Testament would be a closed book. The incarnation throws its light on everything. I think what you say is important and the Word, the person of Christ in manhood, has the inherent ability to make God known and to make the mind of God known. I think the certainty is all connected to that.

JSp Paul was passing things on to Timothy, “the firm foundation of God stands” (2 Timothy 2: 19), linking on with what you are saying, what came in in Christ will be maintained right through to the end, by virtue of the Spirit being here. Everything that bears on what is foundational in Christianity will go right through.

DBR That is what is in my mind. I think the Spirit of God would help us to experience something of the certainty of these things. I think your reference to the firm foundation is good. That foundation will hold everything that is according to God. It will not contain or hold anything evil, anything that is inconsistent with the truth. The firm foundation will withstand that, but what is according to God will all find its place in that firm foundation.

GAB Does faith come into this? Hebrews speaks about the conviction of things not seen. We live in a day when seen things are falling apart, but it is things not seen that the believer lays his hope in.

DBR That is good. Say more.

GAB In the face of the day in which we live when economic and all sorts of things are falling apart in the world, all the things that are seen are going to pieces. Our trust really by faith is in the conviction of things not seen.

DBR That is helpful. You think of the work of God in the saints. Naturally you cannot see it but we can see evidences of it, and there is something reliable and secure in that, something that gives you a note of certainty as you come into the company of the saints. I am sure you feel that along with myself, that you are in a company of something that God is doing, part of God’s work, and it is absolutely reliable.

WL Luke says, “accurately acquainted”. Paul says to Timothy, “thou hast been thoroughly acquainted”, 2 Timothy 3: 10. Is this the same thing? Timothy was an apostolic delegate but he was not an apostle, and that has come right down to us, to be thoroughly acquainted. One thing though, you will never become thoroughly acquainted without reading the Scriptures and reading the ministry.

DBR I think that is where we need the teaching of the apostles, that is the foundational matter, the teaching of the apostles. If you take Acts 2 where we read, the whole world was in a state of lawlessness as it is today, but these men were establishing something that formed no part of the world’s system. It was a heavenly vessel they were forming. I got a touch from Mr Raven where he said that while these men were building the assembly, Saul of Tarsus was seeking to destroy it. That is a practical touch but I think it bears on what you are saying that we need to see to the firmness of the foundation. It says, “If the foundations be destroyed, what shall the righteous do?”, Psalm 11: 3. So we need to be careful not in any way to erode the truth, to destroy the foundation. We stand by what the teaching of the apostles represents.

JCG So as you have said there was moral order in these aspects, “in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers”. Help us more as to the importance of the moral order.

DBR You could say more, please.

JCG The importance is as you have said, the teaching and fellowship, as in 1 Corinthians teaching precedes the breaking of bread. It is important that we understand these principles, as you say, teaching and fellowship, so that the breaking of bread is on a pure basis, then the prayers follow that.

DBR I think the teaching and the fellowship stand by themselves, “the teaching and fellowship of the apostles”. Then you have the breaking of bread and prayers. I think the breaking of bread and prayers is a testimony to the

quality of the work of God in the saints that acted in this way, in breaking of bread and prayers. While the apostles are no longer with us, their teaching is and this is our safeguard, and to bring about certainty; apostolic teaching brought about certainty. While the whole world was lawless what these men were actually doing was establishing something that did not belong to the world. That gives you certainty.

JTB Does it really belong to what is in the purpose of God? There is nothing more stabilising than that, nothing more certain than what is in the purpose of God. All the truth that we have, all that we enjoy together, the truth of the gospel, the truth of the assembly, the truth of the mystery, these are all part of the purpose of God. There is nothing more stabilising than that.

DBR Yes, I think that is good. Mr Darby exhorted the brethren to cleave to the purpose of God. I think there is a great need for that today, and that brings certainty into the soul. It puts you in touch with something that cannot be overthrown, so that while the attacks have been against the truth right from the beginning, and they remain today, what is of God stands. It is remarkable that in Revelation the names of these men are in the foundations of the wall (Revelation 21: 14). Not Judas, he could have no part in that, but these men had part in it, the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

TL Would it be right to apply what it says in Nehemiah, when it came to the setting on of things? It says, “And they read in the law of God distinctly out of the book, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading”, Nehemiah 8: 8. Is that like carrying on in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles in our day?

DBR I think that is typical of it. It shows you that the law of God is something that is stable and abiding, and this teaching is stable and abiding. The young people need to be marked by the certainty of coming into these things. I think we all need to be.

TL And recovery is always what God begins with, is that right?

DBR In fact recovery is always back to God Himself; you cannot go further back than that. That is true recovery.

WL Is that the significance of “from the beginning”? Certain things have had to be set aside but certain things remain, and we go on with what remains and what is accurate. As Mr. James Taylor continually used to say, What says the scripture?

DBR That is good and I think what you say is important that we are going on with that, we say that humbly. We are seeking to go on with ground that is divinely approved. It would have a far reaching result if we in any way lowered that ground; there would be complete disaster.

GCMcK While the teaching of the apostles enters into this foundation, and certainty, they were also set out in Revelation as precious stones, each one distinctive, so you might say the quality and certainty of the work of God enters into that. These were very wonderful men were they not?

DBR They were indeed; they were divinely appointed. I suppose before the Lord died His teaching as far as these men were concerned was mainly as to the outward order of matters, but after He arose He spent forty days with them, He assembled with them. You think of that, forty days with Christ out of death! All that was educational. No doubt there were more than the apostles, but it would be fitting these men for what the Lord had in mind for them, so that each one of them was qualified to take up the position morally as an apostle, not only divinely appointed. Then another thing comes to light, that is while they were appointed as apostles they had to learn that the power was by the Holy Spirit. It says, “having by the Holy Spirit charged the apostles”. That remains today, any service that is rendered to the saints, even in the smallest detail, must be in the power of the Holy Spirit if it is to be effective.

RG So that at the end of the gospel He says, “And ye are witnesses of these things. And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you”, Luke 24: 48, 49. The witness was wonderful and educational, but the power that was to continue was to be the power of the Holy Spirit, do you think?

DBR I think we need to think of the Spirit dispensationally. The Lord charged them by the Holy Spirit. I think He was acting in the power of the Spirit at that time Himself, and He was demonstrating on the principle of pattern, that the whole dispensation depended on the power of the Holy Spirit. I think we must maintain both authority and subjection to the authority, so that the Holy Spirit finds liberty amongst us.

RG So that the only power for us to continue in the certainty is the power of the Holy Spirit.

DBR Exactly. If we depart from that we become adrift and we will become uncertain, but I think the Holy Spirit and His power. Even in our small meetings, I can say this humbly for ourselves in a small meeting, where the Spirit is made room for He quickly comes in and gives you a touch of certainty.

DTP Something of the purpose of God lays hold of us when we make way for the Spirit. I was thinking of what you referred to earlier as to the moral order in Luke. He had learned something from Paul of the counsel of God, and he sets out that moral order which is so essential in our lives related to the whole counsel of God.

DBR I think that is right. As we take up things in a moral way and seek to work them out, I think the Holy Spirit is free to link us on with the glorious thoughts of God in purpose. This is something I have carried with me and read many years ago of Mr Coates. He said, ‘the working out of that purpose must be through suited moral conditions’ (‘Outline of Revelation’, p.48). This makes matters real and certain.

DTP I am sure it is. I just wondered as you referred to the moral order that Luke sets out, if that is maybe a help to us in it because that is what is sure and founded.

DBR Yes, and I think approved of God.

PAG When Peter describes the transfiguration, he says, “this voice we heard uttered from heaven”, 2 Peter 1: 18. Is it important that we recognise that what you are speaking about the teaching of the apostles was uttered from heaven?

DBR I think that is important because these men were in touch with the One who had gone up. They had seen Him going up; that was a wonderful thing, to see Him going up. Luke says He was carried up into heaven, and in the beginning of Acts He was taken up. These men had seen Him going up and they had a conscious link with Him by the Holy Spirit, and I think the flow was really a heavenly flow that came through these men, do you think?

PAG I think so. There is no uncertainty in heaven; nothing has changed there, no thought of God has to be altered.

DBR It will never need to be altered and we need to cling to that. I think we need to be consciously reminded of it and to keep consciously in touch with it by the Holy Spirit.

JCG It really affects our conduct. The scripture that has been referred to “that thou mayest know how one ought to conduct oneself in God’s house, which is the assembly of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth”, 1 Timothy 3: 15. Our conduct is to be in keeping with the pillar and base.

DBR I think that is good. That opens up the whole moral side of the truth, the working out of it practically. They persevered, it says. I understand that word ‘persevered’ means simply they endured. They were given the power to persevere, to go on. We should go on to Stephen. Earlier it says, “they were not able to resist the wisdom and the Spirit with which he spoke”, Acts 6: 10. Then you come to the true character of Christian witness in Stephen, and I think it is right to say that his suffering was related to the maintenance of the truth. That is one of the features that falls on us at the present time that we need to learn what it is to suffer to maintain the truth.

JCG The scripture in Acts 7 confirms your stress on the importance of making way for the Holy Spirit amongst us, not only with us individually but amongst us collectively, would you say? It says, “being full of the Holy Spirit, having fixed his eyes on heaven”.

DBR Well I feel greatly tested by what is said about Stephen.

RG At the end of John the Lord “breathed into them, and says to them. Receive the Holy Spirit”, John 20: 22. As we have been taught that was character. I wondered if that was the character that is now seen in Stephen, something inwardly so that he can fix his eyes on heaven and see the glory of Jesus.

DBR Well, I think that is a beautiful thought. We look at one another but there is more than can be seen, I mean in a material sense. There is a character about the saints that is Christ-like, the features of Christ taken on; Stephen certainly was Christ-like, and he was marked by the Spirit of Christ. The Spirit of Christ is a subjective thought, the Spirit of God is an objective thought, but the Spirit of Christ is a subjective thought, a formative thought. I think what was seen in Stephen was the spirit of a suffering Christ, the myrrh was there. I think the feature of the pearl came to light in Stephen, something there that was formed through suffering, and it will have part in the administration of the city in the world to come, each one gate one pearl. Think of that, formed through suffering and yet it shines in its own lustre. It is shining here in Stephen. There is moral glory shining in Stephen here in the face of all the enmity that was against him.

WL We speak regularly about quenching the Spirit and grieving the Spirit. Stephen says, “ye do always resist the Holy Spirit”, Acts 7: 51. Have you any thought as to that?

DBR I think we have been taught in the good teaching that God forbore with Israel until this point. They had resisted previously right through the history of the people of God, but there comes this moment when they resisted the Holy Spirit. There was a kind of finality about that, do you think?

WL Yes, I am thinking about bringing things down to what has come through creditably through men who have helped us. For instance, the truth as to the Holy Spirit and addressing the Holy Spirit was resisted. That was a dangerous thing to do. If the Lord speaks to us, and divine Persons speak to us, to resist it is very serious.

DBR You could almost say it is strange fire, these are serious and sobering things. I think we would be exercised to take on the features of a man like Stephen.

AMB Do you think Stephen showed the feature of holding the truth in love? You have been speaking about the character that is needed to maintain the truth as it has been from the beginning as it is founded on Christ. I wondered if we might see that in Stephen, that he held the truth in love; there was affection for the brethren, there was even feeling for his accusers. I think you could read that into what he says, “Lord, lay not this sin to their charge”. I was thinking of where Paul refers to “holding the truth in love” (Ephesians 4: 15); it is in contrast to being babes and tossed and carried about, that would bring in movement away from what is foundational, but holding the truth in love we are going to “grow up to him in all things, who is the head, the Christ”.

DBR That is good. You have to learn to love the truth, not only to know it but to love it. That is, it has a place in your affections. Is that what you were thinking?

AMB It really becomes the character of the person. Those who hold the truth in love are formed by it themselves, and then the Holy Spirit is free with such persons; and then features of the body are seen. Christ is held as Head and the members are organically linked up to one another; they build one another up.

DBR The character is a substantial thing, it is not a sentimental matter. You might say, He has a very nice personality; that is not the idea. It is substantiality, it is a character that is formed after Christ.

JDG It is really what the person is. Stephen is commended when he is brought forward in the previous chapter as being “full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom” (Acts 6: 3), and here the constancy of that state remains, he is full of the Holy Spirit. It is not a garment I put on, it is what I am according to God’s work in me.

DBR I think that is very important, it is what you are yourself. That is what it comes down to. It is not merely what you say, it is what you are yourself. It is not as you say merely something you put on for a special occasion, it is what you are at all times.

APG Paul speaks about the “supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ”, Philippians 1: 19. Is that how it is maintained? That supply is still available.

DBR It is “through your supplication and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ”. I think a great deal of that character is formed in secret with God through supplication. Sometimes we are in great need, and in a certain sense it is a good thing because it turns you to God and, as turned to God, I think something is added to your person to what you are substantially.

RGr Do you think that this scripture would remind us of the substantial character of the Spirit’s service? I was thinking of it in relation to the Supper and the service of God. We do not come from persecution, but we do come from pressure, and yet the Spirit of God can take us out of these things, and set us free in relation to the divine service. Stephen here was suffering acutely and yet he could still see and still speak, he was still able to have a judgment of what was there, the Spirit of God sustained him in these abnormal circumstances, and so He does with us, do you think, in the service of God?

DBR Yes, there is a good deal of pressure among the brethren, one way or another, perhaps more than we realise at times. Persons could be going through a great deal more pressure than we realise, but there is something that comes out of it that otherwise would not have been there, and I think we see that substance is given expression to in the service of God.

GCMcK Does it give certainty too to see how the testimony is going through in this suffering principle? This young man called Saul is mentioned here. He says later, “thy witness Stephen”, Acts 22: 20. I was thinking of the way things are maintained in persons, testified to, and that has an impact which involves things going through, does it?

DBR It does. You speak about testimony being maintained, that is day by day and in every circumstance of your life. What do we bear testimony to? Even the simplest circumstance of life, is there some expression of Christ in it? I think it can only be by the Holy Spirit, do you think?

GCMcK Certainly, so matters therefore are communicated and continued not simply in the doctrine and teaching, that is essential, but they are actually communicated because the work of God is in the saints. It is the work of God in souls that is continued, is it not?

DBR It is, and that is why I said that the truth is never better expressed than when it is seen in persons. How it was shining in Stephen at this time!

DCB I was wondering about the witness. It began with eye-witnesses and here we have a person who continues on that, the eye-witness to what there is in heaven. It is wonderful that he has that view of Christ. What is established, stable there, and he was in such circumstances of pressure but he was able to witness to what is established.

DBR I think Stephen really saw the whole scope of Paul’s ministry. He had really seen the whole heavenly system, a Man in the centre of it, not only Christ set up in authority, but Christ filling the whole system. Christ where He is, is the Christ of Christianity. That is what Stephen saw.

DCB So he introduces the term Lord Jesus. It is the first record in scripture of the Lord being addressed in that way. It is really the start of Paul’s ministry.

DBR That is good. Saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit”, is really an assembly touch.

JDG Would the Lord Jesus here in this scene be the One who appreciated the features of the pearl in Stephen? Not the thought of the pearl; the Person who would be most appreciative of the pearl here is Christ, “why dost thou persecute me?”, Acts 9: 4.

DBR I think it is helpful to see that. How the Lord would appreciate this moment. Here we are appreciating it, the record of scripture is for us that we may see that such a character was displayed at such a time. The Lord Jesus, what would He see? I think He saw the features of the pearl.

JDG He sold all whatever He had and bought it. This is the substantiality of it.

DBR He had it here. He had it in Stephen, and thank God, He has it in persons in this room; I believe that. I believe we need to see beyond the outward circumstances and even beyond the outward profession of faith; we need to see that the Holy Spirit is working on the principle of new creation in the believer and that is what produces the pearl. I think the pearl of course is produced through suffering as well.

J.T.B.(Gr) I was just going to call attention to the fact that Stephen is “full of the Holy Spirit”. Every vestige of the first order of man had gone, so he was able to come in the spirit of his Master and reflect something of the feature of the pearl.

DBR Very good, “But being full of the Holy Spirit, having fixed his eyes on heaven”.

WL One of the things that affected me most as a young person, one of the greatest triumphs of divine work, I think, is what a meeting in glory it would be between Paul and Stephen. I think what you say is beautiful, what a meeting that will be.

JSp I was thinking of Stephen, as one who has been instructed in Him according as the truth is in Jesus; that order of man is being carried right through for God’s pleasure.

DBR That would take us on to Paul. What has happened in us relative to the work of God is not an accident; it has all been part of the counsel of God. The witness of it is in this room, the counsel of God operating and securing its own end and nothing can hinder it. The Lord speaks about the gates of Hades that they will not prevail. They may seek to oppose the counsel of God, but they have no effective power against it; the counsel of God is going to be secured. Paul says here, “I have not shrunk from announcing to you all the counsel of God”, the whole thing.

GAB Why does it say that he had not shrunk from doing that?

DBR I have often thought about that and my own impression is that he was aware of the opposition that was against him. There were the plots of the Jews and many other things. Paul was intelligent as to the opposition that was against the counsel of God but it did not hinder him from declaring it all, do you think?

GAB Also what it would involve in the saints themselves in being brought into that.

Much would have to be dealt with and laid aside. There were big exercises involved in announcing this.

DBR The whole ground had to be cleared. That is why Paul, more than anyone else in the New Testament, brings in the teaching of burial. The ground had to be cleared, the offending man must be removed, to make way for the glorious thoughts of God’s counsel.

GAB That is just the impression I had. It was not a light thing for him to have to announce all this counsel of God, he knew what it would involve.

DBR I think it was a matter of the greatest gravity. He says, “I witness to you this day, that I am clean from the blood of all”. It reminds me of the word in Jeremiah, “Cursed be he that doeth the work of Jehovah negligently”, Jeremiah 48: 10. We do not want to do things negligently. I think we have to take great care in filling out what we have been given to do in a right way, but I think as you say it costs something.

JS This matter of the counsel of God involves what God’s thoughts are for us according to His own mind, to bring us into conformity, for example, to the image of His Son. Do you think what goes on in our histories in the working out of things, involving the place that the Spirit has, is in order to reach that practically, do you think?

DBR I think that is right and I think the thought of the counsel of God involves deliberation between divine Persons. The purpose of God precedes that but the counsel of God, one speaks reverently, involves that divine Persons have deliberated as to how the whole thing is going to be brought to pass. The purpose of God is an eternal matter, you may say the counsel is too, but to be simple, at some point there was a deliberation between divine Persons as to how all this was going to be brought to pass.

JS That involves the coming into manhood of a divine Person to accomplish all that is required to God’s glory, and the working of the Spirit in our souls to bring about the answer to these things.

DBR I think that is right and it is all part of that counsel of God.

WL You said earlier that Paul is final. What do you mean by that?

DBR Well I think that God reaches His finality in Paul. It is not that there is nothing after it, we are after Paul, but he says, “which is given me towards you to complete the word of God”, Colossians 1: 25. It was given to Paul and I understand that that was not only in what he said, but it was in Paul himself, that what Paul presented in the way of truth was to be seen in himself.

WL If you turn away from Paul, you turn away from Christ.

DBR That is the truth. It has been said in the good teaching, if we lose Paul we lose all. Let us cling to it, beloved brethren. I trust there is a certain exhortation in the word, not in any arbitrary way, but let us cling to Paul and not give it up.

JCG I was thinking of what he writes in his epistle that the mystery had been hidden throughout the ages in God relating to the divine purpose that has now been revealed. So what you are indicating and helping us in relation to, the character of what is among the saints, is really what is binding the saints together to be the display of the pearl. It is only one pearl.

DBR One pearl, that is right. What is the characteristic of it?

JCG It is the beauty of the assembly for Christ, “having found one pearl of great value, he went and sold all whatever he had and bought it”, Matthew 13: 46. It is for His own enjoyment in manhood.

DBR Yes, it is one pearl.

RG Do you think in that connection that the finality of the counsel of God is first love? When John writes in relation to Ephesus he says, “thou hast left thy first love”, Revelation 2: 4. He gave them credit for many things, and thank God for that for many of our localities, but the full counsel of God is in relation to the mystery that was referred to just now, and that is Christ and the assembly, the pearl for the heart of Christ, do you think?

DBR Yes, that is good. What do you say about first love?

RG Well, it is the best. There is nothing to mar it or tarnish it, there is no spot or wrinkle. It is perfection in the assembly for the heart of the Man who is perfect.

DBR Yes, it is what perfectly meets the heart of Christ. It is prime in that sense, it is not just a question of time but it is prime in its quality, it is the quality of the thing.

RGr Would what you are saying help us more to read the gospels in the full light of the purpose of God, because as it was said earlier in the reading, the word is the source. Christ brought it all in and it was amplified later in the ministry that was given to the apostles. We should really consider the gospels themselves in that light.

DBR Yes, the gospels are the display of perfection in the Man. The epistles bring out the answer to it, but it is perfection in a Man, and then you think of what is secured in the light of divine counsel, which is a vessel which is altogether heavenly and altogether suited to that Man’s affections. These are precious things.

RGr In revelation there is divine light that brings out the lustre of the pearl.

DBR The light shines and it brings out the pearl in its lustre. That is very good.

RGr And it shines only for Him.

DBR Exactly, that is good. I think we need to see that Paul presents what is final.

WL We need to determine where our link is with Paul today. We have heard earlier that Paul has gone. I noticed a remark in the good teaching that Paul is alive in his ministry.

DBR It is a living ministry, and it is not only words that Paul is saying in his ministry, the value of the man is seen in his ministry. I think it would help just before we finish to hear what you referred to on Thursday night, as to the touch we had from Mr. A. J. Gardiner.

WL That was in meetings in Glasgow where Mr. Gardiner said that the government of God decreed that Saul of Tarsus should suffer, but the grace of God decreed he should suffer as a Christian. I thought that was fine.

DBR And his sufferings as a Christian involve the full bringing to light of the counsel of God, and that was no light matter. He was aware of all that was against that but he says, “I have not shrunk from announcing to you all the counsel of God”.

Reading at Grangemouth
16 May 2009

KEY TO INITIALS

A. M. Brown

J. C. Gray

G. C. McKay

D. C. Brown

J. D. Gray

D. T. Pye

G. A. Brown

A. Gray

D. B. Robertson

J. T. Brown (Gr)

R. Gray

J. Spinks

R. Gardiner

W. Lamont

J. Strachan

A. P. Grant

T. Lock

D. A. Steven