STABILITY

Isaiah 33: 5,6; 1 Timothy 3: 14,15; Acts 13: 1-3; Genesis 18: 1

F.C.M. The suggestion in reading these scriptures is that we should consider the matter of stability. Isaiah 33 clearly alludes to stability in Christ and what He is to be to us; "he shall be the stability of thy times". Certainly that would apply to us, that He is to be the stability of our times. Then in the passage in Timothy it is stability in the assembly which is "the pillar and base of the truth". In Acts 13 there is stability in a local assembly, and there is to be stability in local assemblies. We see the features that made Antioch a stable meeting. Then finally in Genesis we see a stable man, a stable household, Abraham by the oaks of Mamre. I wondered, therefore, if the Lord would help us, as He does help in the temple in enquiry, because we are meant to be in a state of stability in contrast to what is around us. We read a day or two ago about a government being overthrown by one vote in Parliament; that is not stability. God brings us into a realm of divine stability and steadiness, control and order, and confidence too, and that all centres in Christ.

R.L. Paul says, "be firm, immovable" (1 Cor 15: 58); he would strengthen the saints to be firm, would he not? That would be in relation to all that we have to face in relation to opposition.

F.C.M. Yes. It is a great thing, and it should be increasingly real to us, that we are in an area of stability. "And he shall be the stability of thy times": what a blessed thing that is! If one could put it this way: every office in the divine order of things is filled by Christ. He is the Redeemer; He has been made Lord and Christ; He is the Head of the assembly; He is the Mediator, Minister of holy places; every office you can think of is filled by Christ; therefore it is a stable system, vested in Him. He is the foundation stone; the Head of the corner; therefore if we are rightly in relation to Christ we shall experience and have part in an area of stability.

F.M.K. Is Isaiah speaking from experience? Would his experience according to chapter 6 be the basis of strength for him, stability for the man himself? He saw the Lord high and lifted up.

F.C.M. Yes; it says there, "In the year of the death of king Uzziah" (v 1); he was a dreadful element of instability and God came in judicially. "I saw the Lord sitting upon the throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple". What an impression of stability he would have gained from that!

F.M.K. Isaiah was in troublous and testing times but he was held by that.

F.C.M. Quite so. I think that is a very helpful reference. “I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up"; the footnote says 'the Lord was high' - that is the dominance of Christ - "and his train filled the temple"; therefore it was exclusively filled by what relates to Christ and His glory. His train would be those who follow Him. Isaiah, as we have all experienced, felt his complete unsuitability and there was the means available in the glowing coal from the altar to bring in cleansing. So he would become part of this stable system and usable in relation to it.

E.P. It says "Jehovah is exalted; for he dwelleth on high". I was thinking of the link with chapter 6 - he saw Jehovah "high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple". 1 Corinthians 1 speaks of what there is in Christ Jesus and that He has been made unto us wisdom, righteousness, holiness and redemption. What would you say about that?

F.C.M. One of the names of God in the Old Testament is 'the Most High', and I think these divine titles link with what you speak of: "Jehovah is exalted; for he dwelleth on high", and here in Isaiah; "high and lifted up". I think we do need a sobering, controlling impression of the supremacy and exaltation of Christ. How small we are, but He is high, highly exalted - "Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and granted him a name, that which is above every name", Phil 2: 9. May we be lowly and easily regulated by the One who is supremely exalted, and in whom, as you say, is our every resource.

E.P. It says in that Corinthian scripture: "But of him - that is of God, I suppose - "are ye in Christ Jesus"; the 'ye' is emphatic. So it looks as if this is to be worked out among the saints in a substantial way.

F.C.M. Yes exactly, so that something of the stability that we see in Christ is to be formed in us. We had a word the other evening in 2 Corinthians 1: 21; "Now he that establishes us with you in Christ"; that is stability.

F.G.M. James speaks of one who is unstable in all his ways (see chap 1: 8); it seems to be caused by doubt. That is just the opposite to what you are speaking of.

F.C.M. Quite so. I think the simple acknowledgement of Jesus as Lord, and submission to Him, would make us stable and cure us of the instability which so easily marks us.

J.W. Would the exaltation of Christ not only be because of who He is but what He is morally? I was thinking of the reference to "he hath filled Zion with justice and righteousness".

F.C.M. I think that is most important. These are the elements of stability. You cannot have stability with injustice and unrighteousness. What a wonderful thing! "he hath filled Zion with justice and righteousness"; therefore you have stable conditions. As you say, that is the moral influence of Christ pervading.

E.M.W. Is it good to see that every official position that Jesus has He is morally equal to? Would you think that the Holy Spirit would enter into this to help us in stability? Having been exalted by the right hand of God He has poured forth this which ye behold and hear (see Acts 2: 33).

F.C.M. I am sure that must be right. He has poured forth this which ye now behold and hear; that is, it was manifest in persons in powerful testimony because they were now related to this realm of justice and righteousness. I am sure, as you say, that the Spirit's service would be to impart to us and form in us what corresponds to the One who is exalted and who is to be the stability of our times. It impresses me very much that stability must relate to justice and righteousness; that is, the maintenance among us in the assembly of what is according to God in these great and unvarying divine principles. Also it speaks in verse 6 of "the riches of salvation, wisdom and knowledge: the fear of Jehovah shall be your treasure". I can at least see, as something objective, that where these things pervade there is bound to be an area of stability.

D.G.S. In Revelation 4 it says "a throne stood in the heaven" (v 2), but around that throne was a rainbow. Does that rainbow remind us that at one time God had to come in in righteousness and judgment, and yet He still considers for men extensively from the throne?

F.C.M. It would be well to have that scripture before us: "behold, a throne stood in the heaven, and upon the throne one sitting, and he that was sitting like in appearance to a stone of jasper and a sardius, and a rainbow round the throne like in appearance to an emerald". And then there were those who were around the throne: twenty-four thrones, twenty-four elders, and then the living creatures. I think all this helps us very much. The rainbow would certainly be a testimony to God's faithfulness; it would also be the display of His attributes. Think of the colours in the rainbow that the young people deal with in physics at school, the component colours! They all speak of divine glories. We used to sing a hymn:

'The glories that compose Thy name

Standing engaged to make us blest'.

This throne is consistent with all that God is, and then there are persons round it; and I think we could say simply, in applying it, that we would like to be like these elders and living creatures who are entirely related to the throne. Now if you have that you have stability.

S.D.K.R. ls your thought that, as we take account of instability in the testimony, if we can get our eyes on what is really stable it will strengthen us? I was thinking of that verse in Psalm 48: "As we have heard, so have we seen, in the city of Jehovah of hosts, in the city of our God: God doth establish it for ever. Selah" (v 8). Do we take character from what we are occupied with?

F.C.M. I am sure that is so. That is one of the psalms of the sons of Korah; it speaks of the beauty and elevation of mount Zion, and then as you say, "As we have heard, so have we seen". So may Christ be before us. Do you not think that one of the greatest things is to be lifted out of what is personal, and any other consideration, to be simply related to Christ, the authority which is in Him, and the moral excellence that we see in Him, so that, as has been said, by the Spirit we might thus be regulated.

F.M.K. Would the Spirit bring about this appreciation of the treasure? "The fear of Jehovah shall be your treasure"; that is something worked out, is it not, with us that we value?

F.C.M. Very good. What a privilege! What a treasure it is to be brought into this area, delivered from instability and confusion and brought into the simple principle of regulation by Christ.

In Timothy we have what corresponds to the stability seen in Christ. The assembly is spoken of here in this very profound way as God's house, the assembly of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth. Now there is nothing unstable, nothing wobbly, nothing uncertain here; there is stability in a vessel which, as the pillar, sets out attractively in an adorned way the truth, and also supports it; there is moral formation which sustains the truth. So we have stability in Christ uniquely, but then stability in the assembly,

A.T. Is that seen worked out in faithful persons? I was thinking of Timothy himself, how faithful he was. In faithful persons there is something to cling to and build upon.

F.C.M. Yes, such persons would form part of this structure; it exists. I may be conscious of unfaithfulness but there is something that exists, divinely established, which is the pillar and base of the truth. Now I would like to have part in it; I would like to be among the faithful men who experience, and contribute to, the reality of it.

R.L. Would the fact that He is spoken of as the living God be something for us? Living conditions are to mark us.

F.C.M. Yes, exactly,

P.S.W. Do sovereignty and responsibility enter into this matter of stability? I was thinking of the sovereign revelation to Peter, that "on this rock I will build my assembly" (Matt 16: 18), but then in Nehemiah's day there was responsibility to clear away the rubbish so that what was stable and firm in the wall could be brought to light.

F.C.M. Yes, I am sure those two things always go on together. Peter was the subject of the Father's revelation, but a lot of work had to go on with Peter, as with each of us, to bring him into the gain of what had been objectively disclosed to him.

B.W.W. In that connection the last words to him in John's gospel are "Follow thou me" (chap 21: 23). which would link, if I have followed you aright, with what you said as to the place that Christ should have before each of us.

F.C.M. Exactly. It is always a challenging question: whom am I following? It is so easy, with the best of intentions, to have a person before me. It may be somebody I like, it might be somebody I do not like. Follow thou Me: in no other say, so far as I can see, can we be preserved in the testimony and in relation to this stable order of things.

V.E.W. In Matthew, the assembly gospel, we get the prudent man who, in the words of the Lord Jesus, "hears these my words and does them". He builds his house upon the rock (see chap 7: 24). Do we not by the Spirit need to pay attention to the Lord's words?

F.C.M. Yes, very good, and to do them; the doing is the test, and you dig down and reach what is stable, and that is really Christ. You have removed all the rubbish and other extraneous things out of the way and reached what is rock-like.

J.W. Is stability connected with what is of God and not with what is of man? There is the reference to the house of God and the assembly of the living God.

F.C.M. Yes, I think that is the whole point. It is God's house, the assembly of the living God, divine property. If I may speak simply, if I went into somebody else's house I would not begin moving the furniture around; I would not say, This should be there, and that should be somewhere else. It is his house. And this is God's house, not ours, and all is subject to His rights and His glory, His will and pleasure. Nothing could be so beautifully arranged as things are in His house, the assembly of the living God. Therefore I am sure we need to be there with intense reverence and godly fear, yet in holy and affectionate liberty, for Luke 15 tells us the kind of house that this is.

H.J.T. Do some references in Psalm 48, already referred to, link with this scripture? "Walk about Zion, and go round about her: count the towers thereof; Mark ye well her bulwarks", or 'Set your heart on' her bulwarks. Would it fit in with what you are bringing before us, that we should take account of what really belongs to the assembly, its character in that way?

F.C.M. Yes, I think that. It is very healthy to look at things objectively first of all. Now this is the character of God's house and the assembly of the living God; let us have a walk round it and see its strength, its stability and its beauty. Someone might have to say, I wish my local meeting was like that. But at least let us have the objective before us, that there is such a thing, the house of God, the assembly of the living God. You could not think of more privileged and dignified expressions.

A.T. So where your treasure is, there will be your heart. I was thinking of what we read in Isaiah as to the treasure; how important that is. If we really see that Christ is everything, what do things here mean? We get other men in view and that robs our souls, robs our affections.

F.C.M. Yes. So we get this expression "but if I delay"; that is, Paul wanted to come to Timothy, but if he delayed, "in order that thou mayest know how one ought to conduct oneself". We get an impression of what the place is, it is God's house and the assembly of the living God, and I have to learn how to conduct myself in this august area, because not any kind of conduct (pardon the expression) can be put up with in that area; it is God's house.

D.E.B. So from one point of view I have my responsibilities in relation to it and God will hold me in relation to how I fulfil them. But from another point of view God can manage without me, can He not? It is His assembly and it existed before I was here, and according to the working out of time it will carry on when I am gone. From that point of view do we not need to hold these things in balance, that whilst we fulfil responsibility, we are dealing with great things that God is able to sustain Himself?

F.C.M. Yes; I am sure you would agree that these are the greatest things we could think of, that God has a house. Paul speaks in Ephesians of the "household of God" (chap 2: 19), where He lives, where He is at home, where things are just as He wants them, and as you so rightly say, He can do without me. If I do not like to conform to the principles and the government of this house, I shall miss my privilege, though the thing itself will go o n. But I am sure we would all like to be in it.

E.F.W. Does it cover every individual? It is not how I should serve in God's house but how one should conduct oneself. Would you say that the children are included?

F.C.M. That is a very healthy and practical point. We would all agree that the house of God is not just when we are together, although we enjoy it in a special way then. I ought to be the same at school as I am in the meeting. I am part of God's house all the time. I would not like to misrepresent Him. How inconsistent if I have part in this and yet am known at school as a cheat or somebody who does not tell the truth; that is not conduct befitting to God's house. How am I at home, at business, in the office, in every sphere of life? That is, my conduct in every sphere is to be regulated by the fact that I belong to God's house. Is that right?

E.F.W. Yes; I thought you would encourage each one, however young, that they are to have some appreciation of what is befitting in God's house in their own conduct.

F.C.M. That is very good. I was a bit negative; that puts it positively that there is a place in this house for the young and they are to fit in happily. They may be arranging the chairs; a boy begins with exercise to give out hymns in the meeting; all this is conduct in God's house. We are all to be suitably controlled and regulated under Christ and the Spirit to contribute to the living experiences of this house.

F.M.K. Reference has been made to Psalm 48: "Walk about Zion"; is that something we can all have part in? We see in different localities what the Lord is working out, the glory of the local assembly, and we learn to value what the Lord has in each place.

F.C.M. Yes exactly, and in this scripture we see the totality of it, the whole complete thing, God's house, the assembly of the living God; that is, it is the place where His immediate movements and His immediate speaking are known.

H.P.W. There is not much said about Lydia, but something is said about her house. There is not much said about the jailor, but what is said pin-points the fact that he was saved and all his house. Does it show the stability of each household as linked with the local assembly and as taking pattern from it?

F.C.M. Yes, very good. That links with the earlier remark that all of us, brothers and sisters, are to take on the character and the spirit suitable to the house of God and the assembly of the living God.

G.A.P. Would the verse in Hebrews 3 bear upon it: "whose house are we, if indeed we hold fast the boldness and the boast of hope firm to the end" (v 6)? Would it be that we might identify ourselves as being components of that house and recognise that there is a certain conduct suitable to it?

F.C.M. Quite so, and this should become something greatly treasured by us. Men have their associations, their various strata in society; this is our high privilege. Let us treasure this wonderful dignity conferred upon us to have part in a creature vessel in which God dwells and where He moves and where He is known, and - and this was especially in mind - which is the pillar and base of the truth. Now you say, Where is the truth? Well, it is in Jesus, it is in the Spirit, but it is in the assembly too.

J.M. Is the house of God where God is represented? The truth is what God has been pleased to reveal as to Himself, and the assembly therefore is a vessel that adorns and supports that thought; is that it?

F.C.M. Yes, I think so.

P.v.d.B. The house of God is a thing that is to be arrived at in experience, is it not? I was thinking of Jacob and how he arrived at it, and David also and what he arrived at as to the foundation of it, his experiences too in the Songs of degrees and how the house of God is in view, and how deep experience relates to it. The saints who are walking in the light of the assembly are to be prepared for deep experience, for sorrow too.

F.C.M. Yes, I am sure that is very true, and yet at the outset, although Jacob said "How dreadful is this place!", he must have gained a sense of stability from the fact that that ladder was set up, showing that God had a direct interest in him and wanted him to arrive at the experience, through many exercises, of His house and His dwelling.

E.C.M. In the beginning of Acts the Spirit coming filled all the house. I was thinking of the reference in this first epistle to the Spirit speaking expressly in these latter times (see chap 4: 1). Would you say something about that?

F.C.M. That is certainly very striking. It says it filled all the house; it sat upon each one of them, they were all filled and they began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave to them to speak forth (see chap 2: 3-5). Is that not one of the evidences of God's house, the assembly of the living God, that His voice is heard? That would be known in what the Spirit says, It is a place of living, constant communication.

S.D.K.R. I was thinking, in contrast, of what it says in Zechariah 5: "To build it a house in the land of Shinar; and it shall be established, and set there upon its own base" (v 11). Would the house of God be in contrast to what we see in Christendom around us? Does that add to the dignity and privilege of belonging to it?

F.C.M. I am sure it does. This is a divine foundation. You get in 2 Chronicles 3 as to what Solomon built: "this was Solomon's foundation" (v 3). Now this is what God has established. What a privilege to have part in it!

D.E.B. I suppose one of the supreme displays of the stability of the assembly is brought out in Revelation 21, the holy city coming down having the glory of God, with the foundations on display, relating to the truth and how God had worked things out in time.

F.C.M. That is very interesting because you have both sides there. "Having the glory of God" will be the display, but the base will be in evidence the foundation, and you cannot have the one without the other. As to the pillar and base, I suppose the pillar would remind us of those two pillars in front of Solomon's temple; they were for most attractive display, but then there is the base, the thing is honestly, solidly, formatively, established and wrought out, as has been said, through exercise and discipline in persons who are thus set together.

E.C.M. The house of God is never viewed locally, is it? It is universal. Is that important, that what the Spirit would say currently has a bearing on what is universal as to the unity of the saints?

F.C.M. Quite so. So the same principles, the same manners, the same conduct, are to apply universally.

H.C H. In the third epistle of John it says "Demetrius has witness borne to him by all, and by the truth itself"; I thought he was a stable person.

F.C.M. That is a good example.

P.E.M. A feature of power enters into Revelation 3: "He that overcomes, him will I make a pillar in the temple of my God" (v 12).

F.C.M. Very good; that will be the finished workmanship. These thoughts are most attractive. We have had reference to Jacob; God took him up, you might say, in his unformed years, the raw material, and worked with him so patiently and he finishes up as a worshipper. Now that is adornment; that is the supreme beauty and glory of God's work in a man, that he is a worshipper, or a pillar if you view it that way, adorned and beautified, but also something foundational and basic wrought in the man.

B.W.W. He is able in the presence of two of his grandsons, to speak about his experience of God, and what God had been to him, which would bear upon us who are older as to whether we have had any such experience, and the conveying of that in some way, not only in word, to those who are younger.

F.C.M. Quite so. What words he spoke! On the one hand he said "Few and evil have been the days of the years of my life", Gen 47: 9. That was honest; that was his experience with God. On the other hand, as you say, he speaks of "the God that shepherded me all my life long" (Gen 48: 15): that is divine faithfulness which had brought him to the intended divine end.

B.W.W. It was to Pharaoh that he spoke about the fewness and evil of his days, but to his grandsons he speaks about the faithfulness of God, which is a very different thing.

E.M.W. Immediately following this reference to the pillar and base of the truth you get the mystery of piety: "God has been manifested in flesh". What stability in that blessed Man! How did He conduct Himself here? What a wonderful pattern He thus becomes for us!

F.C.M. It is a wonderful thing that those two matters are put together. Paul, after speaking of the assembly, runs right on to what has been manifested in flesh and justified in the Spirit. Could we say that what had its commencement, and was of course unique, in Jesus, in character is continued in the assembly? And it must surely be on the basis of piety.

E.M.W. What was seen so perfectly in Him is continued morally in those that are His own.

F.C.M. Yes, morally. We think of the life of Jesus in its incomparable and unique perfection: has that been extinguished? No, in moral features it is perpetuated by the Spirit in the saints.

J.M. The truth was there in Him; in fact He is the truth; but for us it needs the experimental working out of it, because this pillar is a formative, adorned idea, is it not? Hence the gravity of any line of things that might undermine the experimental working of the truth among the saints.

F.C.M. I am sure of that. So let us have the attractive side before us, that God has taken us up and is working with us to produce something attractive and adorned and beautified that is the expression of what is so precious to Himself.

A.T. ls it not all secured through suffering? I was thinking of the Lord Himself, what He suffered to secure these things, and the assembly, and persons who are standing rightly. go through suffering, do they not?

F.C.M. Yes. Those two pillars were cast in the clay ground of Jordan, which speaks of that side.

F.M.K. Do we need help to arrive at these things by coming under the influence of Christ exalted as Head, and the teaching and leading of the Holy Spirit in the assembly?

F.C.M. Yes, and under the Lord's authority. I am sure there is no other way in which we can arrive at the experience and the enjoyment of these high privileges.

F.M.K. I thought it linked on with your reference to Acts 13, the Spirit was free there in authority and direction. Shall we not miss the point of stability if the Spirit has not His place in the local assembly?

F.C.M. Yes. This links with what you were saying earlier. We can view the thing objectively, we can have a conception of it, and indeed experience of what is essentially universal, but here in Acts 13 we come right down to the experience and practice and exercises of a local meeting. Antioch was a local assembly marked by stability and unity, and, as you say, the liberty of the Spirit.

F.M.K. The confusion around us is due to the nonrecognition of the Spirit's authority and His speaking, but it should be found with us if we are in the truth, and then we should move in unity.

F.C.M. I am sure that is right; and they were ministering to the Lord.

E.M.W. Should we regard this as a practical impossibility in days of ruin?

F.C.M. I think I know what your answer would be to that! God does not present impossibilities to us, does He?

E.M.W. No; I was thinking of your reference to the fact that it existed; the fact that God did secure this at Antioch is an evidence that He can do that, and I wondered if we should keep that great divine standard before us.

F.C.M. I think that is the whole point. Therefore it would be healthy for each of us to go over this ground. Is the locality in which I am marked by stability? As the Lord looks down can He see features of which He could say, This is like what I had in Antioch at the beginning? There is no reason why it should not be so.

J.W. There are prophets and teachers there in the assembly; would they be contributing to this stability?

F.C.M. Yes, how?

J.W. I was thinking of the need of those two elements - the prophetic word and right, sound teaching.

F.C.M. Yes, they are essential. Hence the importance of the ministry meeting, though, of course, we do not limit what is prophetic to that. Then, as you say, teaching, that the whole scope of the teaching should be maintained in power and accuracy before the saints.

S.D.K.R. In a practical way how do you understand "ministering to the Lord"?

F.C.M. I always feel when such questions are raised that we shall get answers among us which are more than one has in mind, but at least it conveys to me that they were not concerned about themselves; none of these five men were ambitious; they were ministering to the Lord; their great concern was that He should be served and exalted and pre-eminent. Although they were very mixed socially and racially they were all united that in all things He must have the first place.

E.C.M. It is important to see that ministering to the Lord and fasting shuts man out entirely, so that the Lord was really supremely before them.

F.C.M. Yes. If you fast you lose weight. They were setting aside things which would make for inflation and the building up of self; they were fasting to keep spiritually fit. That is a test. Are there things that I go without, not necessarily because they are wrong, but because I have greater things, better things to devote my time and interest to? I think that if Christ is before us and filling our affections, our appetite for certain things will wane; I think that is fasting.

F.M. K. You get a list of happy, satisfied persons, not self-satisfied, but satisfied persons, in Romans 16. Should we not covet to be commended by Paul?

F.C.M. Very good. They were persons who were ministering to the Lord, and, as you say, I think that was a very happy; busy, working community.

A.T. As the Lord is getting something through the ministering, the Spirit can come in and give something further, and then there will be more for the Lord through what the Spirit sends these men out to do.

F.C.M. Exactly. The Spirit has free scope. I just feel the edge of these things. Am I among those who are ministering to the Lord? I can very easily be minister in to my own tastes and to myself in one way or another; these selfless persons were fasting; they were being in that sense a bit hard on themselves, and ministering to the Lord. How acceptable that ministry would be to Him!

H.P.W. Is it not a great encouragement to each of us to think that the Lord has an interest in each one of us personally? These persons are named; the Spirit of God could have left the names out. I wondered if it might help us each to think of ourselves as being an integral part of the local assembly; the Lord's eye is upon us and we are identified. We are not nonentities but persons who have something to do in an unselfish way.

F.C.M. Yes, that is very good. Mr Taylor gave a word on 'Heaven's view of cities' (see Vol.100, p.432). Well, this is heaven's view of Antioch. The Lord would look down with great pleasure on Antioch. He would say, There is Barnabas and there is Simeon and He would be pleased with those men. Another feature is that while they were men of distinction morally and spiritually they were all working together as one. Now that is an element of local stability.

J.M. Is that not the secret of this passage? The opening sentence always strikes me: "Now there were in Antioch, in the assembly which was..."; that is, the assembly was there formatively and in function. Is that not something to be set before the saints in these days that we should strive in exercise that the assembly in a formative and functional way should be known? The Spirit of God can, of course, speak of these individuals, but is it in the environment of the assembly being there functionally?

F.C.M. Yes, that is most important. So these men were not independent. In a reading in Antioch you would not find one on one line and another on another, another on a third line; they were in the assembly, they were in the current, the mutual flow, the holy influence of the assembly. They were not individualists in that sense though each would be distinctive.

J.M. Therefore is there not a need to seek to stimulate exercise among the saints that the assembly should actually be experienced? And is it not experienced as each one is there under exercise in relation to the truth?

F.C.M. I think that is very important and very beautiful because, although these were evidently men of gift and ability, you cannot dispense with the assembly, and the working in its measure of each one part. I think the side of what is mutual is essential if the reality and beauty and richness of the assembly are to be realised.

F.M.K. And would unity and working together in the assembly meet the opposition and yet bring in the fruit which appears in the next few verses?

F.C.M. Quite so. Do you not think that where there are healthy conditions in a locality the Lord will spread the influence of it. Now every individual has an influence and every local assembly has an influence. Is the influence of the meeting where I am, or where you are, a healthy one? I think this is quite an exercise because here what was in Antioch was so good, so normal, that the Spirit could say, I am going to spread this; I am going to take some of it and make it effective in a wider area.

F.M.K. If there is not reality and moving together in a local assembly, the influence of such as this Jew, Bar-jesus, may get in.

F.C.M. Quite so.

A.T. It is interesting to see, as to fasting, that they fast again and pray. Is that of all importance when there is work to be done for God? These two men had gone forward but the others are all behind them in support. It is they who let them go; they were holding them before; t hey loved them and would not want them to go, but love would let them go.

F.C.M. Again it shows normality and stability. They would be very sad to see them go and yet they relinquished them in a spirit of subjection to the word of the Spirit and commended them.

B.W.W. It may link on with Genesis, but influence is not limited to the company, either the whole or the local company; each of us has an influence and not only brothers. These are brothers, prominent persons, but sisters have an influence one way or another.

F.C.M. I do not think we should ever forget that. Two brothers are together having a conversation, or two sisters. What is transpiring? What is being said? Is it something damaging? Is it something the spread and influence of which is opposed to what is proper to the assembly of the living God? I think we need to be very careful because in all our contacts we have an influence; may it be a priestly influence.

Genesis 18 is a position of wonderful stability. Jehovah appeared to Abraham by the oaks of Mamre. This was a fine area related to Hebron, which evidently is the purpose of God. As Abraham opened his tent door every morning there were these oaks, and that is where we all ought to live. They were stable; they may have been there hundreds of years, but they represent an area of stability which I think we could apply very widely to what is established in Christ, what is in the purpose of God, the stability of the truth itself, and stable persons. Mr Taylor said once that Paul was like one of the oaks of Mamre. Let us live in an area like that, and let those of us who are a bit older provide an element of oak-like stability for younger people.

E.C.M. It is interesting that this stable position follows the carrying out of circumcision. Abraham had gone through the experience.

F.C.M. Quite so. He was marked, as characterized him, by the obedience of faith. It is a fine thing to look at Abraham just alone, and then wit h his household, as marked by stability.

S.D.K.R. Is that confirmed in verse 19? I thought the expression of that stability would be seen working out.

F.C.M. Very good. This is like the scripture we began with as to righteousness and justice. God had confidence in Abraham: "For I know him that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of Jehovah".

F.M.K. He was not overcome by the heat of the day. We are so very likely to be that.

F.C.M. No, he was not. He might have been having a rest, but he was alert even at midday, and ready for this supreme privilege of the divine visitation.

F.G.M. Is the order in which you have taken these scriptures the way that we would arrive at stability personally?

F.C.M. I think there are two aspects. Practically, as we grow up and go through exercises, we arrive at things on the Jacob line. But on the other hand - and we have been reminded of the need of teaching - does not God bring His end and objective before us so that we can relate our exercises to His end?

F.G.M. I think so, and it would begin with a personal attachment to the Lord.

F.C.M. It must do on our side.

E.P. It says earlier that "Abram moved his tents, and came and dwelt by the oaks of Mamre, which are in Hebron. And he built there an altar to Jehovah", chap 13: 18. I wondered whether what you have brought before us requires a certain perseverance and committal, because we cannot go along haphazardly, can we? We must be delivered and seek the Spirit's help to carry things out.

F.C.M. Therefore the Lord might use what we have been considering to make some of us move our tents. Suppose I am living in an area of uncertainty; it is much better to move my tent and come and dwell by the oaks of Mamre which are in Hebron.

E.P. It is very sad that Lot pitched tents as far as Sodom. But Abraham had God before him and deliberately moved into this stable position.

F.C.M. That is a very salutary word because chapter 13 gives us those alternatives; it says that Lot saw the plain of the Jordan "as the garden of Jehovah, like the land of Egypt"; and then you have Abraham's view. May there be this exercise with us; if any are consciously in an area of uncertainty and instability let us move our tents and come and dwell by the oaks of Mamre.

E.C.M . In Romans 4 we have "the steps of the faith ... of our father Abraham"; there were certain spiritual steps which were landmarks in Abraham's history.

F.C.M. Yes, and we want to be following in those steps.

E.C.M. We do not arrive at the stable position apart from these steps that have to be faced and worked out in our practical experience.

J.M.W. Is it striking that according to a later chapter both Isaac and Jacob lived in this place? "And Jacob came to Isaac his father to Mamre - to Kirjath Arba, which is Hebron; where Abraham had sojourned, and Isaac", Gen 35: 27. Can we be encouraged to follow on in the places where our fathers have sojourned and maintain the standards that they maintained?

F.C.M. Yes, that is one way in which it works; Abraham dwelt in tents with Isaac and Jacob. Now in our local meetings young people should see - it is testing to talk about it - but anyway they should see in older persons something that corresponds with the area of Mamre, and I think if I were young I might say, I can see my father is stable; I am a bit mixed up and confused; but I can see he dwells in an area of assurance and stability, and I am going in for that.

A.T. It does not matter how hot it is, or how warm it gets with different things; there is the tent to go into and come out of.

F.C.M. Abraham ran to meet them; so whatever the temperature he was marked by spiritual energy and alacrity.

S.D.K.R. Hebron was one of the cities of refuge. Would that confirm what you say as to our finding a place of stability? it would be a place of refuge.

F.C.M. That is very interesting.

E.M.W. There is also an interesting connection with what was said earlier. Abraham would realise that those oaks were there before he was and they would be there when he was gone.

F.C.M. That is fine. We think of Mr Darby and Mr Raven for example, and other great men of God; where did they live? Whence did they get their conviction and stability? By living at Mamre; and I would like to live in the same place.

D.E.B. Actually Abraham was buried there; his life terminated at this point.

F.C.M. Very good.

A.B.S. Also Isaac and Jacob and maybe most of Jacob's sons were buried in the cave of Machpelah eventually (see Acts 7: 16).

F.C.M. Yes, and what does that mean please?

A.B.S. I suppose, although failure did come in, there was always a stable condition maintained.

MAIDSTONE

30 January 1982

 

Key to initials

D.E. Burr, Redbridge; P.van den Berg, The Hague; H.C.Hatcher, London; F.M.Knappett, Maidstone; R.Lawrence, Maidstone; E.C.Muggleton, Croydon; F.C.Mutton, Redbridge; F.G.May, Maidstone; J.Mitchell, Bexley; P.E.Meek, Richmond; E.Palmer, London; G.A.Palmer, London; S.D.K.Roberts, Croydon; A.B.Skeffington, London; D.G.Spary, Tunbridge Wells; A.Thomas, Gillingham; H.J.Taylor, London; B.W.Ward, London; E.F.Woodford, Dorking; E.M.Walkinshaw, Gillingham; H.P.Wright, Gillingham; J.Wright, Redbridge; J.M.Wallach, London; P.S.Warren, London; V.E Wraighte, Gillingham.