THE GIVING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

Exodus 17: 1–7; Numbers 20: 2–13; Acts 2: 1–4, 30–33; John 14: 15–17, 25, 26

GCMcK What was in mind to suggest for consideration was the giving of the Holy Spirit: not exactly the immense value of the gift, though it enters into the scripture that refers to God’s unspeakable free gift, but to occupy ourselves with the administration of it—if we might use the word, the transaction that took place, and the preparation from the divine side so that the Holy Spirit could be given, and God could be free to bring in this blessing which we are enjoying today. I trust it will become clear as we proceed, that while what we would speak about in a sense would be historical, what scripture discloses as to it would indeed touch God’s people, so that we might value the Holy Spirit. The gift is so great, you might wonder how it might be enhanced, but I believe that as we consider the circumstances in which the Holy Spirit was given, and the divine feelings that entered into it, that precious matter of the gift of the Spirit would be greater in our hearts.

Exodus 17 brings out the fact that the Holy Spirit came on account of the smiting of Christ; a very touching matter. It was necessary if this great gift that God had in His heart for men was to come; there had to be the death of Christ, the smiting of the rock. In Numbers there is a smiting but it is not divinely prescribed; it is not so much the thought of the Spirit given on account of the smiting of Christ, but I think it is on account of the resurrection of Christ, because before this you have the thought of Aaron’s rod that budded, and that was the rod that Moses was to take. He was to speak to the rock, not smite it. It is our day, and I think it would give us a touch in our hearts as to the Spirit being available to us on account of the resurrection of Christ. And I think we could add to that His ascension. Acts 2 gives us an account of the wonderful moment when the Holy Spirit came, and what was in mind was the opportunity it might give us to speak of Pentecost, the forty days and the ten days; that our hearts might be drawn into consideration of what we might call a transaction, what occurred in these ten days when the Lord Jesus went on high and before the Holy Spirit came.

Another matter that was much in mind in regard to it is that the Holy Spirit is described in Acts as the promise of the Father. The Lord Jesus so described Him in the gospel of Luke and it is mentioned in the beginning of Acts. He is described in an attractive way. Then in John 14, 15 and 16, we have from the Lord’s own lips an account of what He would do and there is much in that to engage us. We read from one of the chapters, chapter 14, bringing out the fact that the Lord Jesus begged the Father. It says in Acts that He received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit; it was administered; the Lord asked the Father. He begged the Father and it came, it has been said, through the hands of Christ. I wondered if these thoughts might be sufficient for us to dwell on. There is more in the sections read than we could possibly cover, but we might get some touches.

DAS The Holy Spirit is referred to as our greatest Friend on earth. I would like you to say more as to what God says as to striking the rock; it surely touches our affections to think that that had to be done before the Spirit would come.

GCMcK Well, it is very remarkable that this occurred at a time when the people were murmuring. They were disputing with Moses, they were tempting Jehovah. You might wonder how divine blessing could flow to a people in such a state, but God did not smite the people, He smote Christ, He smote the rock. The state on our side had to be met to clear the way so that God would be free that the Spirit might be given to us, this wonderful gift that He had in His heart for so long. That He might be free to give thus, the death of Christ was necessary to meet the state on our side, to clear the way for it. There is more in it than that, of course.

JCG It says following that, there shall come water out of it, it is a wonderful full result, almost voluntarily, from the effects of the death of Christ, would you say?

GCMcK Yes, so the manner of the giving should so enter into our thoughts. It is not only God’s unspeakable gift, it is His unspeakable free gift; it is the manner of the giving. So the water flows freely. In Numbers 20 there is a similar expression, “it shall give its water”. It is the wonderful grace of God in this gift.

JCG In your opening remarks you referred to the administration in relation to the giving of the Spirit, perhaps you could enlarge on that to help us.

GCMcK It was a very wonderful matter that was in the divine mind, that men should be thus blessed, and therefore there was clearly divine forethought and preparation entering into it; divine wisdom and divine affections. There was not only God’s love for man and for His people but affections between divine Persons. The preparation, I think, would involve what we read in Exodus, the smiting of the rock, and I think it involves also what we read in Numbers, that the way was clear for a wonderful dispensation of divine giving such as had never been before.

NJH What is your thought as to the rock; can you help us in that?

GCMcK I would be glad of your help.

NJH The rock comes into both scriptures, and the rock that followed them was the Christ; immediately Christ introduced the gift of the Spirit as being in the Father’s mind, the fulfilment of His purpose. Would that be right?

GCMcK Yes, so it was through Him; the rock followed them, there again is the divine grace that marks this wonderful gift, that the rock would follow them, always available to them. It could only come about through His death, and it could only come about through His resurrection and ascension. It did come about through His requesting; it all came through Christ and He administered it, “having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit”.

WL Paul, in 1 Corinthians 10, said it was spiritual drink and a spiritual rock (1 Corinthians 10: 4).

GCMcK Yes, we have to understand these things spiritually, and I suppose the very fact that we are indwelt by the Spirit—the assembly is indwelt by the Spirit—we have capacity to take in, not only the fact but the spiritual import of this, the bearing of it on us.

WL It is introduced there in the beginning of 1 Corinthians 10, so we need the Spirit’s help to proceed, then to proceed into the Supper, do you think?

GCMcK Yes, quite so. It would be preparatory to that, so that there has to be a state. The one side of things is, of course, that there has to be a state with us for the reception of the Spirit. We get that in Acts, a company adequately prepared under the hand of Christ to receive the Holy Spirit. The other side that comes in in Numbers is that the Holy Spirit is given in spite of the adversity of the flesh. It is divine grace overcoming, but it was only through the death and resurrection of Christ that that could be so, that God could be free to give the Spirit.

JAB Is it your thought then that we should appreciate more the inherent greatness of what you called the transaction when the Spirit came? It is often referred to, the greatness of the incarnation when God became Man and came to earth, and then the greatness of the event when that blessed Man died; but is it your thought that the greatness of this transaction you are bringing before us is (without seeking to say which is more important) as it were alongside these great transactions that God has had with man in the course of time?

GCMcK That is right; both of those things enter into God’s unspeakable free gift, and I thought we should be impressed, not only with the greatness of it, but with what is disclosed in Scripture of the detail of it, the way that the Spirit was given; what entered into the ten days; we will come to that in Acts. What entered into it was that God had to provide for the matter in the death of Christ, and then the matter could only proceed in the light of Aaron’s rod that budded, a risen Christ in life; so that there is priestly grace and the Holy Spirit is freely available on the principle of asking—a very beautiful thing which belongs to our time.

JS Do you think we should appreciate that this involved the smiting of Christ?

GCMcK Yes, I thought that; the fact that it was given at such cost brings out the value of the gift. This was necessary; the Lord Jesus had to be smitten. He had to be abandoned on the cross, and individually we should take account of that. We could say, each one, if I was to receive the Holy Spirit there had to be the death of Christ, and what I was in the flesh as a man, in sinful flesh, had to be set aside; because the Holy Spirit could not be given unless the state was dealt with.

DBR Do you think the history outlined in the Old Testament brings out very clearly the necessity of the Spirit? Man in the flesh could not operate for the pleasure of God and it says here they thirsted. I suppose each of us individually should have some sense of the necessity of the Holy Spirit, and because of the state of man the death of Christ was necessary to give God liberty to bring in the Holy Spirit.

GCMcK Yes. God was wishing to be free; He had this in His heart. It was the promise of the Father, something He had in His heart for men, but it could only be given through certain wonderful preparation, and that preparation involved the death of Christ. The way man could be cleared so that the Holy Spirit could be available to men is very touching.

DCB There is a reference in the scripture that God says, “Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock on Horeb”. I just wondered if it had a bearing on what you are saying, the importance that God is setting Himself in relation to the transaction you are speaking about.

GCMcK Yes, that helps, to see how divine Persons entered into this matter. Not only did the Holy Spirit Himself come forth from with the Father, but as we go through these scriptures we might see the Father’s part in it, and the Lord’s part in it. It is not that there is any discrepancy, it is all one great matter, but the whole divine economy entered into it; I think what you call attention to points to that, God standing there upon the rock on Horeb. Horeb has a touch of grace about it, the side of grace in the covenant at Horeb. It is God’s grace that is being expressed in this.

JSp In the Spirit’s chapter in Romans 8, it says, “He who, yea, has not spared his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him grant us all things?”, Romans 8: 32. It is the necessity of the death of Christ that God could divulge all that is in His heart along with Christ.

GCMcK All that was in His heart and all that was in His mind was coming out in Christ, but really for all that was in God’s heart to be received by man it was necessary the Holy Spirit should come. What a thing it was; it was a shedding forth, a pouring out, and with the Spirit came heavenly blessing; all that was in God’s heart poured out. So, you can see the wonderful effect; the power for walk as in Romans 8, the power for enjoyment and power for response.

WL And, equally important to recognise, the gift of the Spirit bears individually and what He is among the saints collectively. I just wondered that; we are not really in the assembly, as individuals, unless we are indwelt by the Spirit. But then, the function, for instance, of the temple of God by the Spirit dwelling in us would be a collective thing, would you say?

GCMcK Yes, I am sure that all enters into the divine giving, God’s thought in the giving. I thought if we consider the way that the Spirit is given, it would become an immense thing to us individually, that we have been given the Holy Spirit. It says that He has given to us of His Spirit; it is God’s own Spirit in that scripture, is it not? The immensity of the privilege would impress us and prepare us for the assembly, do you think?

WL This matter of thirst you have raised comes out distinctively in John 4; essentially there is it? The water springing up into eternal life.

GCMcK Yes, and then the result for God. So the Scriptures are full of the great results of the power of the Holy Spirit, although one’s thought is that we should consider carefully the way the Spirit was given. In Numbers 20 the rock was not to be smitten, it was to be spoken to, just spoken to; that is touching also that the Spirit should be so freely available that Moses would only have to speak to the rock and it would give its water.

JCG It follows the taking of the staff; as you commented it is a reference back to Aaron’s rod in Numbers 17 where it budded and blossomed and brought forth ripened almonds. Say more about that to help us. Taking the staff involves something further, does it?

GCMcK Yes, I wondered that; Moses took the staff from before Jehovah as He had commanded him. That was Aaron’s staff he took from before Jehovah. It speaks of the Lord Jesus, not simply His death, but His resurrection, and I think it might help us in our thoughts as to the ten days; it might help us to understand that the Lord Jesus was on high, a blessed, risen Man in priestly grace in the Father’s presence; and from that position, a risen and ascended Christ, the Holy Spirit was sent. This priestly grace of Christ is necessary so that the Holy Spirit should be free amongst us.

JCG The reference to the testimony would help. Do you see some parallel with this expression (although it is only a type) in what the Lord says in John’s gospel that the Spirit comes forth from with the Father, there would be a correspondence in some way would there?

GCMcK Well, I was trusting that we would get a little deeper into that area you are alluding to, what actually transpired. Think of the feelings and affections on the part of each divine Person that entered into the coming of the Spirit. You can understand it can only be as Christ was victorious and risen and ascended, so that from that ascended position the Holy Spirit has been given. He is said to be sent by the Lord, sent by the Father. He is said to come forth Himself; much entered into that time.

JS It says the Spirit was not yet because Jesus had not yet been glorified. He has become available to us from the Man who has been glorified. It is a wonderful thing to think of the Spirit being acquainted with the Man glorified in heaven, for ten days before He came here.

GCMcK Well, that all gives character to the gift, that He has come from a glorified Christ. The Spirit was not given to men in the days of the Lord’s flesh; He was not given in that connection. The Holy Spirit has been given in connection with a Man in another order of things in resurrection and ascension and glory, and so all the value and meaning of that enters into the gift of the Spirit.

CKR There is a touching reference in John 20 when the Lord says to His own, “Receive the Holy Spirit” (John 20: 22). I was thinking of what you were saying as to speaking to the rock. Think of Him in resurrection in the forty days, it is the breath of heaven, there is a character of being anticipatively waiting on Pentecost, but He breathed into them. There is a real sense of divine feeling in resurrection in that, is there?

GCMcK Yes, the Lord’s own feelings, the Lord’s own spirit really entering into that and entering into them. So what you referred to brings up another part of the matter. It is not exactly what I had in mind but I think we should remember it, that on our part there has to be reception, receptiveness, and I think that might enter into the idea of speaking to the rock. You might say, Have I ever spoken to the rock? I could ask for the Holy Spirit if I am not sure that I have it, speak to the rock. That would mark someone who was ready to receive the Spirit.

JMar The Lord Jesus, the Spirit descended on Him as a dove. One is thinking of your reference to His death; that was where there was a clearance made for the Spirit to come to us. He did not come as a dove there, He was sent. I was just thinking of the wonderful comparison there is, what He found in Christ where He could descend as a dove, but with us He was sent.

GCMcK That helps. There was such complacency, and there was nothing to disturb the Spirit in the form of a dove; He could come and come in His entirety too; it is another feature that God gives not the Spirit by measure. The Holy Spirit came on Christ; there was nothing there that needed to be removed, there was no preparation needed you might say. With us there is preparation needed in the death of Christ, and then God is free to send forth the Holy Spirit.

JMar Everything is to be clear in our relations with the Holy Spirit and the Lord Jesus; that is the great intent that they should have a clear way amongst us.

GCMcK I think that is right. You can see the readiness from the divine side. It says, “much water came out, and the assembly drank, and their beasts”. From the divine side there is no limit, there is no niggardliness and God desires us to come into this blessing, but as you say we have to be exercised from our side that we do not hinder this great flow of blessing, and having received the Spirit that we do not quench it or grieve it.

JSp Do you think the suggestion of speaking would remind us we come into an area of divine communications? There are three divine Persons, and the Spirit does not speak from Himself but what He shall hear He shall speak. Do you think it is a wonderful thing to think of the love and communications taking place and we are brought into the flow of it?

GCMcK I think that is right. We speak reverently, but what was the conversation in heaven during these ten days? We know one thing and that is that the Lord spoke to the Father and asked for the gift of the Spirit. He said, “I will beg the Father”.

RT The Lord said, “the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name”. That would be the name of the glorified Man would it not?

GCMcK So the Holy Spirit has come then in that connection, to keep that glorified Man before us and to protect His rights in our souls. “In my name” shows how the economy is bound up with the matter. The Lord Jesus is asking for the Spirit, the Father is sending the Spirit in Christ’s name; it shows the divine affections. I think the word ‘transaction’ may be too ordinary a word but it conveys something of the thought of the divine economy operating at that time.

RG At the end of Luke’s gospel the Lord says, “I send the promise of my Father upon you” (Luke 24: 49), and immediately we get a reference to “power from on high”. Do you think that bears out what we have been speaking about, the relationship would exist and exist eternally, so that there might be that for us to enter into, what the Spirit leads us into eternally?

GCMcK Yes, I think that is right. So that there can be speaking. When the Holy Spirit came the first thing it says as to those who received the Spirit is that they spoke. It is a dispensation of speaking that we enter into. It is speaking in the power of the Holy Spirit, so this is all preparatory to what we might enter into in the assembly, an area where there are divine communications because of the presence of the Spirit and because, you might say reverently, He is freely available as we provide the conditions.

WL It is most affecting that the Spirit has a part in the Lord offering Himself, “who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God”, Hebrews 9: 14. There is a depth about that that the human mind cannot penetrate.

GCMcK I wondered if we could seek the Spirit’s help to go a little deeper into things, a little deeper into divine feelings, what has entered into divine operations and divine Persons working together, and all in view of our blessing. The satisfaction of God is the great end result, but in view of our blessing, divine Persons operated like that.

WMP I was going to ask about the section in Ephesians 2, verse 18, “through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father”. Do you think that might have entered into those conversations you have spoken about?

GCMcK Yes, I think the whole scope of the divine mind must have entered into those conversations, because what would be in mind was that the Holy Spirit would communicate from above. We have been taught that much of that communication involves Paul’s ministry, a heavenly ministry that Paul was given to lead our affections above.

Perhaps we should take up what was quoted in Luke as to “the promise of my Father” because I would like to understand better the Holy Spirit being described that way. In Acts 1 they were instructed “to await the promise of the Father, which said he ye have heard of me”. It is a question of the promise of the Father. Then where we read in chapter 2 this thought comes in again, “having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit”. What would you say more as to the promise of the Father?

RG I was impressed by the relationship that comes before us in these scriptures. It was not three Persons unrelated; the Spirit between the Father and the Son is the Holy Spirit, and here He is speaking about that One that is the binding influence between two divine Persons, coming here, so that there might be that binding influence known by men for their eternal pleasure.

GCMcK How precious that is, the effect of the Holy Spirit coming in that way, affecting us deeply. And so, “the promise of the Father”, the Father’s affections enter into it.

RG We have to be constantly reminded that this is a divine Person, this is not an influence, but a divine Person coming from the presence of two other divine Persons; not incarnate but nevertheless a divine Person.

GCMcK Well, He is sent of the Father and of the Son but He is also said to go forth—that preserves His prerogative as a divine Person. He was sent, but He came forth on His own authority and initiative. That preserves the fact that He is equal in the Trinity.

JSp The fact the Spirit has several appellations in Scripture would open up a great wealth for us; the Spirit of God’s Son, the Spirit of the Father, the Spirit which is of God; all these things show the great variety of the truth we can enter into through the Spirit.

GCMcK I think that is right, and really the whole wealth and scope of divine things are entered into because the Holy Spirit has come. It is only because of that that they have come into expression in the ministry of the apostles and of Paul. It is only because of the presence of the Spirit that the truth has been developed in the souls of the saints, and developed in more recent times in the temple in a very special way. The whole scope of the truth, everything that was in God’s heart was in view in the gift of the Spirit. The promise of the Father, what was in the Father’s heart was all to come out and He had it in mind before the gift.

NJH While the work of redemption was entirely and only Christ’s, the giving of the Spirit must have brought persons livingly into the economy. I just wondered if the promise of the Father is linked with that.

GCMcK Well, you will need to help us a little further as to persons, men. The Holy Spirit is the bond between the Father and the Son, and then He is the bond between Christ and the believer, so men are going to be brought in in the most intimate and blessed way, and then as John says in his epistle, he has given to us of his Spirit” (1 John 4: 13), of the Spirit of God Himself, we are given of that; it brings us into very close relationship with divine Persons. It all depends on the Holy Spirit. Perhaps you have more than you have brought out?

NJH I was thinking of the blessed conversations that must have taken place in those ten days, that one divine Person returned, came into that condition in manhood, and now men were going to be brought into it. I thought of the Spirit coming; it has been said that the incarnation did not disturb the unity of the Godhead; neither did the coming of the Spirit disturb the unity of the Godhead, each divine Person operating in their own right. I just thought of men being brought into it, and that is why I wondered if the coming of the Spirit would bring them livingly into the economy of what divine Persons had entered into.

GCMcK Quite so. That is a great matter, the coming of the Spirit to bring us consciously into the power of these relationships, because in the flesh it is entirely beyond us. It is only as God has worked in our souls, and we have received the gift of the Spirit that we can touch these things; but we can touch them in power and in enjoyment too.

RT Do you think a new family; the assembly must have been in mind in those conversations in those ten days, in the power of one Spirit we are baptised into one body?

GCMcK Well, that is right, something that had not been before. There was something new, it could only be on account of the death of Christ and on account of His resurrection and ascension, and in view of the work of Christ in His own down here that this great matter of the body could proceed.

WL The scripture in Luke goes on to say, “till ye be clothed with power from on high”. Do you think we need to see that that power is undiminished today; the breakdown has not altered that, has it?

GCMcK No, quite so. The presence of the Holy Spirit still remains. He came personally. “God gives not the Spirit by measure” (John 3: 34); to an extent that would apply to the Holy Spirit coming at Pentecost; we have been taught that He actually came in a complete personal sense. It was not just that there was an influence, but a divine Person came from heaven, indwelling the assembly.

WL It says, “it sat upon each one of them”, that would bring us to what is referred to as the assembly in view.

GCMcK Yes, I think that is right. The house is filled, it is the house, and then “each one of them” really has the assembly in view. And here, again, I would like to be able to understand this better; there is the thought of the Holy Spirit coming in the face of hostility.

We have that in Exodus 17 and Numbers 20, but the Holy Spirit came down to this company in a city that had just crucified Christ. But in spite of the worst that man could do, and all the efforts of the enemy, God is not hindered in giving the Holy Spirit, and in bringing about by that His great purposes.

RJC You have a reference to the Father’s Spirit in Ephesians 3. I thought of the great resources behind that, “in order that he may give you according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man”. And then it develops into a very wide area that three divine Persons are involved in.

GCMcK Yes, they are indeed. I think that was what was referred to earlier, the full scope of God’s purposes were in mind in the gift of the Spirit, and the Spirit having come all these things become possible. God is able to do far exceedingly above all that we ask or think. There is a power towards us in Ephesians and there is a power in us. And so Christianity becomes a living possibility in the souls of men because of the presence of the Spirit.

AMB The Lord said that it was profitable for His own that He should go away, because the Spirit was going to come. That was a remarkable thing was it not? But it is a reality.

GCMcK It was the best possible thing for the disciples that they should have Christ on high and the Spirit with them down here. And that is the present arrangement. The breakdown has not affected that save in the sense of the weakness of the vessels that are available. But still, the divine economy has been set up, and still holds good. Christ is on high glorified, and corresponding with all that glory and power up there, the Holy Spirit is down here.

RG When the Lord was here, “This is my beloved Son” there was a glorious Person here filled with the Spirit, but now these are the excellent on the earth which is all God’s delight. His delight was in Christ, but now the Spirit has come and He is empowering every person who is following after Christ. And God says, “in them is all my delight”, Psalm 16: 3. Is that the answer?

GCMcK Well, quite so. Christ is no longer personally on earth; He filled the Father’s heart in His pathway here, but has the earth now to be, in the absence of Christ, devoid of divine pleasure? Surely not, for the saints are here and they have this blessed Gift that enables them to be here for the divine pleasure in a full way, and in a responsive way.

DAS Do you think in the Acts there was a power upon them and they were to be His witnesses in Jerusalem? We need that power, do we not? And we have that power. John says, “greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world”, 1 John 4: 4.

GCMcK I think that is right. The Holy Spirit comes with two objects. One is the testimony, the power that is necessary in a hostile scene for testimony and witness, and He also comes to bring us into the divine secrets, in that holy area of divine affections between the Father and the Son; He has come for that too.

GAB Is the Spirit in that sense a uniting power? It says, “it sat upon each one of them”. They had been scattered after the Lord’s death but now they are drawn together into this one place and the Spirit (One Spirit) sat upon each one of them.

GCMcK I think that is the thought in the “parted tongues, as of fire”. I think it really united them. There was not an individual tongue of fire on each. It is “parted tongues”, it suggests there is a link between the persons through the gift of the Spirit, and so there is the unity brought about that you allude to.

TCM You spoke about the administration of the Spirit; following on this it says about Peter that he is standing up with the eleven.

GCMcK What you are pointing out is right, that the thing continues, the divine economy works out down here in persons who are indwelt by the Spirit. And that is what came out in the day of Pentecost in this wonderful preaching; which was really an explanation of the fact that the Holy Spirit had come from an exalted Christ.

JCG It was extended in relation to the adverse conditions in which the saints find themselves as repeated in Acts 4, and when Peter and others are let go they come to their own company. Then after the prayer it says, “And when they had prayed, the place in which they were assembled shook, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and spoke the word of God with boldness”, Acts 4: 31. That is another evidence of the presence of the Spirit collectively as the word of God comes in, communications are coming through the power of the Spirit.

GCMcK Yes, so the Holy Spirit’s presence is an assurance of victory, an assurance that the testimony will go through and that God’s purposes will be effectuated. We can take courage, dear brethren, in the fact that whatever weakness marks us, things can be worked out in smallness and the Holy Spirit will be available to us as we provide conditions for Him. If we value Him enough and see the greatness of the gift, surely there will be a desire to make more room for Him, and to be more into the blessing that is embodied in the gift of the Spirit; it is all that is in God’s heart, the promise of the Father. It all came out in the Spirit.

JS It is interesting how it says, “having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which ye behold and hear”. It seems like a concentration of the economy there; He received of the Father, He has poured out this (that is the Spirit) and then persons were seeing it and hearing it in communications.

GCMcK Well, that is what I thought. The Lord asked the Father and He received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit. Can we get some thought as to the divine affections that entered into the ten days?—the Father having in His heart to send the Spirit, and the Lord Jesus’ affections for His own, and all that must have been in the Lord’s heart as to what the gift of the Spirit would effectuate for God. There are all these things, the Father affected by Christ asking for the Spirit, and then Christ receiving it; He received gifts in man—it says He received the Spirit and then from His hand it was poured out. It is a great matter.

JS I was just thinking of that word “poured out”. The Lord had used that as to His blood. Now it is the Spirit being poured out on men.

GCMcK Well, I think some of these words are telling. There is the idea of pouring out, and the word shedding forth is used too; it is in keeping with what we were saying as to the rock, the way the water came, it is God’s free gift. It is a free gift, showing the disposition of God. It is the most wonderful thing that we should be the recipients.

WL How does the pouring out relate to what John the baptist says in Matthew and Paul says of the baptism of the Spirit? How do you correlate those two? I am just enquiring as to the thought of being baptised as when Paul says, “in the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body”. Is that in your thought as to what is collective?

GCMcK Yes. The pouring out seems to be a great opening out of God’s heart towards men, because all these persons at Jerusalem heard the preaching; the pouring out involves that this wonderful power of divine grace on earth was going to enable God’s grace to go out to all men; but the baptism, I think, would involve more that those that are the Lord’s are secured and made suitable for the divine system.

WL That is helpful, and that baptism of the Spirit took place once. Anyone who received the Spirit today receives it in relation to the Holy Spirit as here in the assembly. Should we keep that in mind, do you think?

GCMcK Quite so. So all the time that we are speaking just now of the transaction, the great matter of the time when the Spirit was given, we have it in our hearts that He is here. Here we are in the midst of the blessings that that gift has brought to us.

RG It has been said that in the beginning of the Acts, when the parted tongues, as of fire, sat on each one of them, it showed that while the flesh was not active, the fire appeared, for the leaven was latent. The tongues of fire were then operative in speaking and dealing with anything in the flesh that could be contrary to what was spoken, so that those who heard then say, “What shall we do, brethren?” Do you think this is the beginning of the divine operation that is still available to us?

GCMcK Yes, it is available to us as we make way for the Holy Spirit. The tongues of fire were not to deal with what was there, they were preventative so that the speaking should have nothing in it of the flesh; it should be simply in the power of the Holy Spirit. That should characterise our communications; nothing coming from man, but all from the power of the Holy Spirit.

RT Quite often the Lord spoke about “In that day ye shall know”, showing He was looking on to this, does it? One of the things He says, “ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you”, John 14: 20. It brings out the administration bringing us into this wonderful economy of love.

GCMcK I think it does. It is a very touching matter that we are so bound up with divine Persons; it is a wonderful day that we are now in, the day of which Christ says, “In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you”. “I am in my Father”, that is where the Lord is, He is in His Father; what affections are flowing there. And then, He is in us, I think must involve the Spirit coming, and “ye in me”, we are in Christ, and He is in us. We are bound up in the divine affections there.

CKR I am enquiring why the Lord says “another Comforter”, with a capital ‘C’. I just wondered if there is a touch of divine feelings as those who received the Spirit would need comfort; would need that resource, because is there not a reference in Acts 9 where the assemblies are increased through the comfort of the Holy Spirit (Acts 9: 31)? As though there is an inward side, there is a glory in the Comforter and that service of the Holy Spirit as reflecting divine feelings.

GCMcK Yes, I think the Lord was anticipating that in His absence they would feel the need of the Comforter, and so, as affected by their need He would beg the Father, and He would give them another Comforter. They would never have Him taken away from them. You can see divine affections coming into it in consideration for us. “I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter”.

JMar Do you think we should be impressed with the fulness of divine giving?

GCMcK Yes, I thought that.

JMar You referred at the start to “his unspeakable free gift”. That would include the Son and the Spirit. That would include His free gift. Do you feel that giving way to divine love and divine giving would affect us in a greater way?

GCMcK I think so. We are speaking about a very wonderful gift, an unspeakable gift, but a gift can be enhanced in the recipient’s mind in the way that it is given; to understand what was in the heart and mind of the person who gave it. That was one’s exercise, that we might see what was in God’s mind and affection for us, that we might value this gift.

DBR Throughout the book of Acts you have a living current of things, and I was wondering about the expression in Galatians where it says, “He therefore who ministers to you the Spirit” (Galatians 3: 5), not just merely the things of God. but would ministering the Spirit involve the maintenance of a living flow amongst the saints, obviously in the power of the Holy Spirit?

GCMcK It is not a scripture I understand very well, but I can see that there is a ministry in the power of the Spirit, and it says the Spirit is ministered, as if all the blessing and power that is in the Holy Spirit can enter the souls of the saints through that ministry, and that has to proceed now.

DBR It is not exactly a remote power; it is working because the Spirit is here in the assembly. I thought it linked on with a living flow of things really involving the current mind of God, and that becomes the test of all ministry, whether we are really proceeding with a conscious sense of the current of the mind of God in it, do you think?

GCMcK Well, we should remind ourselves then if we are experiencing in God’s goodness such precious light, such precious truth, that it was recovered because saints set themselves to make way for the Holy Spirit; to reject the clerical system which shuts Him out, and to make way for what was entirely of the Spirit, and not of man. We need to maintain that.

DBR It really is the man with the pitcher of water, that is Paul here in Galatians, he is the man with the pitcher of water, and thank God that continues today.

GCMcK Well, that is what we want, what will build us up and attach us to Christ in glory, and will lend us power down here in the testimony. It will attach us to another scene altogether.

JAB Is there an aspect of this blessed service that goes on, “that he may be with you for ever”? The blessedness of what we are speaking of will not end until we are taken out of this scene. We know and need the services of a Comforter now, perhaps not in that way then, but nevertheless this transaction, as you have been bringing before us, the greatness of it is eternal.

GCMcK That is good and that carries the whole matter that comes before us forward, as to what was in the divine mind in the giving of the Spirit. I suppose therefore what was in the divine mind in the Lord begging the Father for the Spirit goes into eternity; the purposes of God and the living state of things that will be eternally, the way that we will enjoy these things. How much was in view, how much must have entered into the conversation in the ten days, what considerations of heaven, what movements of divine love and the communion of divine love in view of this great gift.

Reading at Grangemouth
16 September 2006

KEY TO INITIALS

A. M. Brown

N. J. Henry

D. B. Robertson

D. C. Brown

W. Lamont

C. K. Robinson

G. A. Brown

G. C. McKay

D. A. Steven

J. A. Brown

J. Marshall

J. Strachan

R. J. Campbell

T. C. Munro

J. Spinks

R. Gardiner

W. Patterson

R. Taylor

J. C. Gray