WHAT WE ALL SHARE IN CHRISTIANITY

Exodus 10: 7–9; 1 Corinthians 10: 1–4, 14–17; 12: 12–14

WMcK In the scriptures read in Corinthians the thought of we all enters into them and it is implied in what is said in Exodus. I thought we might speak about the thought of we all. I am quite impressed with the number of children and young people there are in this locality and the potential there is for God in them. So I thought we ought to begin with this basic thought in Exodus. In coming out of Egypt, that is out of the world in type, Moses said, “We will go with our young and with our old, with our sons and with our daughters; with our flocks and with our herds will we go; for we have a feast of Jehovah”. As we see these beloved children and beloved young people, we should have a great desire, like Moses, that they would all go with us, morally out of the world and will find their happy part in the fellowship. As 1 Corinthians 10 shows, in going out, Paul says they were all baptised unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea, so the uniform bearing of the truth of baptism on every generation should be on our minds. Then he says that they all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. If we are to carry our young with us, they must have the same spiritual food and drink. Then the fellowship of Christ’s death involves all of us, so Paul says, the cup is the communion of the blood of the Christ, and the bread is the communion of His body, and then he adds that we all partake of that one loaf. That would not be just outwardly eating of it, but partaking would imply that we are apprehending together something of the bearing of the fellowship of Christ’s death, and that we are set together as morally out of the world, in relation to the maintenance of His rights in the scene where He has died. It is not the Lord’s supper, as we know, in 1 Corinthians 10, it is the bearing morally of the fellowship. Then we have all been baptised by one Spirit into one body, and have all been given to drink of one Spirit. There should be a general state of inner satisfaction among us; not only is no one to be left behind in Egypt, but no one is to be merely outwardly with us, yet inwardly unsatisfied.

JS I think it is very important for us that the younger ones are carried along in the company of the older ones, and in our affections too. Moses was adamant about them going out of Egypt, and we would have in mind that the young ones should not be left in the world. Baptism would put us positionally out of the world, and no doubt it is in mind to bring us to that morally, do you think?

WMcK Yes. So that the enemy’s suggestion is to let the men go but Moses clearly has the full divine thought in his mind as to all generations. As we see in chapter 12 where the truth of the passover is opened up, it has its bearing first householdly. All in the household are in mind for the same thing; it is not only that in our local companies we do not want anyone to be left behind, but also in its practical working out, it begins really in the household. This I realise puts quite an exercise on fathers and mothers but the Spirit of God is available to help them, especially in keeping this line of things operative so that the children and the young people are brought along with us.

NJH Do you think in the celebration of the passover there were whole households in mind?

WMcK Yes, there was. So we should have in our minds that all in the house are to be moving on together householdly in relation to the general thought of the testimony and the service of God. It is a basic thought, as I remarked, but I think very pertinent, especially where you see divine blessing in a number of children and young people.

JS Parents, as being convicted of being delivered from the world, and taken up in view of divine service, would, in the appreciation of that, be concerned that the children should come into it too.

WMcK Well, absolutely. And clearly here Moses, the great servant says, “We will go with our young and with our old, with our sons and with our daughters”. I suppose he is thinking of every generation, but he begins with the young, because the continuance of things really lies in them if the Lord does not come soon.

GBG God says, Let My son go, and let My people go, that they may serve Me—is that the two thoughts you have in mind, having in mind for the young as well, the two thoughts?

WMcK That is it exactly. So, the thought of “my people” involves that we are a possession for God, that what He has is in His people. Jehovah’s inheritance, it says, is His people, but “Let my son go” (Exodus 4: 23), would show that even as to the smallest child in the room sonship is in view, and the moral road by which it is reached, in the way of light and enjoyment, is involved in the scriptures we have read. So that the movement morally out of Egypt is essential, because sons cannot serve God in the world and the way out of the world morally is baptism. Then, as the children and the young people hear the glad tidings, and they believe in the glad tidings, God gives them the Holy Spirit. We are sons by faith, but we are given the Spirit of adoption that we might enjoy sonship. Where we read does not go as far as sonship but clearly it is in view from the outset.

APG It says of the Philippian jailor, that he was baptised and all that was his. Is that the thought, all that was his, would that be everything in the house?

WMcK Yes. We should refer to it in Acts 16.

APG It says, “and was baptised, he and all his straightway” (Acts 16: 33).

WMcK Yes. So it shows that the thing has not to be delayed. I do not know of any household where baptism of children is delayed. It used to be, but I think we are all clear about household baptism. But what we need to carry in our minds, and help our young people to see as they reach an age of understanding, is that baptism really involves that we are going out of the world.

JS In Acts 16 it says he “rejoiced with all his house”. Do you think it should be conveyed to our young people that it is not an onerous thing but something that gives cause for rejoicing?

WMcK Yes. And really what could be greater rejoicing in a household, than that children of the age of understanding and young people have committed themselves to the fellowship of God’s Son, and that they are morally free of the world, finding their life among the saints.

JAW It says “for we have a feast of Jehovah”. The word was that they had to come out to serve God, but there was a feast of Jehovah. Is that something that the young people can appropriate on the way to serving God?

WMcK Yes. As we have a feast of Jehovah, that would be its character, it would not be like anything that went on in Egypt. In fact Moses said to Pharaoh that we cannot serve God with what is an abomination to the Egyptians, meaning that they could not proceed with the offerings in Egypt, it must be in a sanctified area, it must be out of the world. So, you might say, there are only two sanctified areas generally speaking; that is our households and our local companies. Well, that is where the service to God goes on, where the feast of Jehovah is enjoyed.

JS I suppose as enjoying something of divine things in the home circle, it should become attractive to the younger ones to find interest in the meetings and the saints. It would be a good thing to grow up as developing in that way with that kind of interest.

WMcK I think one of the evidences that a young believer has the Spirit is that he or she wants to be with the brethren, that they find their enjoyment spiritually among those who are committed to the testimony of our Lord.

GBG Are there three settings that God especially blesses; each one as individuals, our households and the local setting, would you say?

WMcK Yes. We must arrive at things individually, but in doing that we are in a household and in a local company. There is no thought that any believer should be an isolated unit, he is always related to what is of God, either in a household or in the local company. So in 1 Corinthians 10 Paul says, “I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that all our fathers were under the cloud” (1 Corinthians 10: 1), that is the presence of God was over them; and “all passed through the sea”, that would be the Red Sea. When they went through, the waters were a wall up on either side, but they were all baptised unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. We are baptised unto the Lord and it involves these two thoughts; the divine presence involving guidance, and the sea which is figurative of the power of the enemy, which the Lord has broken by going into death and coming out of it.

JS We are accustomed to thinking of baptism in connection with the sea, the connection there being with the Lord’s death, perhaps we have not thought so much about it in connection with “the cloud”. Say something about that.

WMcK Well I think there is some indication in Romans 6 of it. He says, “Are ye ignorant that we, as many as have been baptised unto Christ Jesus, have been baptised unto his death?” (Romans 6: 3). Then he goes on to this thought, “if we are become identified with him in the likeness of his death” (Romans 6: 5), that is what baptism is really. He says, “We have been buried therefore with him by baptism unto death”, that is, baptism really carries the thought of burial with it; but we do not remain there, for he says, “in order that, even as Christ has been raised up from among the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also should walk in newness of life” (Romans 6: 4). Christ is raised, we are not, but the glory of the Father raising Him has a great effect on us. I think the full thought of the cloud really would be the glory of the Father raising Christ, and that would affect us inwardly, so we begin to see we are in relation to a spiritual order of things which involves walking in newness of life. If we really understand baptism as involving death and burial, and that morally we are raised, not literally, we begin to see the attractiveness of newness of life. Egypt really is the old man in all that characterises him, but we escape out of that order of things morally, and we come into an order of things that is related to the Lord as out of death and the Spirit here, which the cloud would indicate. I would think that baptised unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea would indicate, not only that we are coming out of what is morally death and burial as to things here, but also we are in relation to the things of the Spirit, involving divine guidance and protection. What do you think?

JS I think it is very helpful because it gives us positive direction in our lives, this thought of newness of life, and the thought of glory becoming attractive to us.

WMcK Well, it does, so you can see the need of spiritual food and spiritual drink; not only does he say all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea and so on, but all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink. So, we want our children, if they are able, and our young people, to appropriate the same spiritual food and to drink the same spiritual drink.

NJH The cloud was introduced before they approached the Red Sea.

WMcK Yes, it was.

NJH Does that show that God is with us as going through this exercise?

WMcK Yes, it would and that should encourage us; it is not something we are trying to work out by our own resources, but God is with us in the matter, and is providing the resource and power and protection from the power of the enemy.

GBG Is the moral import of that needed in view of finding our place in what is collective rightly?

WMcK Yes, it is. So that in the latter part of the chapter where we read, he says, “Wherefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry”. Well, idolatry is what characterises Egypt, so God said He would take vengeance on all the gods of Egypt as well as dealing with Pharaoh.

Flee from idolatry, and then “I speak as to intelligent persons”. Well, those of us who are middle-aged and older should be intelligent persons, who should be able to lay these things before the brethren in some measure of power and clarity, so that those who are younger begin to see the value of these things and that it is well worth while going in for them.

GBG Death and burial are needed in view of merging with others, is that right? We cannot have the old man, that did not have any place in what is corporate or collective.

WMcK As intelligent persons, we understand what the emblems of the Supper mean. As we remarked, it is not the Lord’s supper in chapter 10, it is rather the bearing of the truth of the death of Christ on fellowship, because it is the communion of the blood of the Christ; then it involves our relations with one another, because it is the communion of the body of Christ. So, he adds, to make it clear, “Because we, being many, are one loaf, one body; for we all partake of that one loaf”.

KW I was going to enquire as to all eating the same spiritual food and all drinking the same spiritual drink. We all know that in this world around us there are lots of influences on the children and on us all, but what I was thinking was that we all have a responsibility in our households and in our localities to provide the right kind of food. I was thinking that the rock was the Christ, and Christ is really the food, is He not? Could you say something about that?

WMcK I would say that the food that they ate in the wilderness households was the manna. Everyone in the house, according to his measure of eating, ate the same food, which was the manna, that is the grace of the life of Jesus as He was here. It is the kind of food that will sustain you in the wilderness where another kind of man is in evidence. So it is an important matter that we should see all eating the same spiritual food is not just when we are together, because the manna was a household matter.

KW I was thinking of our responsibility in our households to read scriptures to the young ones and to pray, pray every morning with them, and every evening with them. Would that be involved in it in our households?

WMcK Yes, it would. And if it is difficult because a father may leave for work long before his children are

up, then he has to find another time to work this out. Well, I think the point you are making is that it is a day by day matter and you want them with you, with the brethren, as much as possible. So you begin to see that you not only regulate your household, but you also regulate yourself, and your own way of doing things, so that you can work this out.

JS As food is provided in the households and in the meetings, all eating the same spiritual food and drinking the same spiritual drink, there would be no need to specially segregate young people for this, do you think?

WMcK You say there is no need to?

JS What I am thinking is there used to be things like Sunday schools for example, but this idea of the same spiritual food and the same spiritual drink would mean that it is available for all. The youngest would get the manna just the same as the others, would he?

WMcK Exactly. So I think, generally speaking, this spiritual food and spiritual drink would be available in two places, your household and your local company. It would not be found at some other arrangement. The truth is to be worked out householdly and then locally.

NJH It has been said that the parents are in a mediatorial position between God and the children; that is something to consider is it?

WMcK Well, it is very important because they really represent God to their children so that is a considerable exercise; it is not just the natural link, but, as having children, and young people especially, you represent God in what He is towards us. The predominant thought would be grace, and grace is not looseness, grace is according to the truth, it is grace and truth.

TMcL I was just thinking that we all eat the same spiritual food and spiritual drink, but babies take milk and young children have to get the food cut up for them, but adults can take the plate set to them as it is. To be practical, the children might be a bit bored by a meeting like this; I do not want a separate Sunday school but I am very happy to have the children instructed at a level which they can appreciate.

WMcK Well, I think what you say is testing us. They may find this meeting boring, so we have to make it interesting for them, and we have to show them that the same quality of food is available to them, whatever their state of moral and spiritual development. The pure mental milk of the word would certainly be appropriate for children. I would think that both in our households and in our local companies there is opportunity to provide them with that kind of food. They do not need to go anywhere else for it, and as they develop spiritually then more substantial food is available.

JS I was thinking in connection with Ruth that handfuls of purpose were to be made available for her; there would be some ability to take account of what would be suitable for the various stages of growth, do you think?

WMcK Yes, I think that spirituality in parents and brethren would enable them to provide what is needed, according to the state of growth, the pure mental milk of the word would be available to the youngest child, and then, the oldest brother and sister certainly ought to be eating strong meat.

NJH In this epistle the Lord’s supper is placed in the assembly. Would you bring the bearing of the cup of blessing, that is referred to in verse 16 in chapter 10, into household relationships and relationships horizontally?

WMcK I think it would bear on that because one thing that would be maintained in our households is committal to the blood of the Christ. Householdly we are committed to the death of Christ and what that means, but then we are also committed to the communion of the body of the Christ, which means that there is an area where we have spiritual enjoyment together.

JS We all partake of that one loaf. If we do that, we are involved in this fellowship, so we are careful of all our links in fellowship, do you think?

WMcK Yes, we are. And I think as soon as our young people reach an age of understanding, we should encourage them to see that normally they should be among us partaking of that one loaf, they should be among the “we all”.

SMcL Is it not true to say that we need to have our tastes changed, generally speaking? Was that not one way of looking at the whole of the Old Testament, and certainly in the journey through the wilderness, the people had to have their tastes changed from what they were used to, to a new taste?

WMcK Exactly. And so I think that Peter had that in mind in referring to the pure mental milk of the word, that our tastes are changed and we are giving our minds to what is spiritual and pure. That does involve a change, because our natural tastes are like Esau’s, he wanted the red thing, he called it, something colourful, something tasty to the natural man, but what Rebecca prepared for Isaac was a kid of the goats, obtained through death. So, it is important to see that, as we go through these scriptures our tastes are being changed. The fact that the Spirit of God says spiritual food and spiritual drink shows that it is of a spiritual source. And he says here what it is, “a spiritual rock which followed them—now the rock was the Christ”.

Well, that should encourage us, it may be somewhat difficult to work out these matters practically, but the Lord is following us up in grace. He is not ahead of us in this passage. The ark went before them in Numbers, but here He is following us because of our tendency to droop or maybe turn back, and there He is in all His grace, the spiritual rock.

NJH It could hardly be said that the children of Israel were spiritual on most of the journey, but the provision was there to complete it, is that right, and the spiritual food?

WMcK So, in Exodus 17, where the rock was smitten, it does not say they drank of it, but nevertheless the water flowed. When you come to Numbers 20 they drank of it, and their beasts.

JS It is very encouraging for us that if we are set on this way the rock is following us, Christ in His grace following to provide refreshing. We may droop or wilt, but the spiritual rock is there.

WMcK Yes, it is. And Mr. James Taylor said of this, that the Lord in His grace, became a water-carrier in order to furnish them with spiritual drink. Think of the Lord, even though He is glorified, in His service of grace to us, following us up, so that we are not thirsty, not unsatisfied, we are not hungry, we have spiritual food in our households in the manna and the passover, and in the assembly we have it in the Lord’s supper, we have it in the food of eternal life. All this is wonderfully strengthening and stimulating.

JS Is it important for us to be satisfied persons?

WMcK I thought that was the point where we read in 1 Corinthians 12, he says, “For also in the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body”, that is the first thing, the Spirit of God is active in divine power to bring us into the body. It is not now baptism by water, it is the baptism of the Spirit, and in His power we have all been baptised into one body. Everyone who has the Holy Spirit belongs to the one body. Then it says, “and have all been given to drink of one Spirit”. We should all, therefore, be satisfied as given to drink of one Spirit. It is the same blessed divine Person who becomes the source of satisfaction to us and, as we know, we connect this rightly with the cup at the Lord’s supper. There is a connection too with what the Lord said in John 4 to the woman, that “whosoever drinks of the water which I shall give him shall never thirst for ever, but the water which I shall give him shall become in him a fountain of water, springing up into eternal life”, John 4: 14.

APG In Matthew and Mark it says they all drank out of the cup. Would that help us in being in oneness among us, do you think?

WMcK Yes, it would. We are baptised into one body, so that natural distinctions disappear as we assemble, and then we are satisfied. One Spirit is really the source of the spiritual drink.

GBG As to being given to drink of one Spirit, would it also include what may come through the members of the body by the Spirit and cause satisfaction?

WMcK Yes, it would. John 7 would show that. The

Lord said, “He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water”, John 7: 38. Well, that is not just what is springing up in me or you individually, it is something more, rivers of living water are flowing out, which involves refreshment and satisfaction for others through drinking and believing.

GBG So that the person becomes like the Lord, is that right?

WMcK Yes, he becomes a source of satisfaction and stimulation to others. It is in mind that that should characterise us all, for we have all been baptised into one body, and we have all been given to drink of one Spirit. How wonderful to think of this as characterising us in our localities and thus providing a wonderful basis for the service of God to proceed among us in fulness and freshness.

JS It would ensure, therefore, that what is coming, operating through the body, is maintained in freshness, by our being given to drink of one Spirit.

WMcK Yes, so in that sense the body would never become immobile, arthritic or anything like that. It would be characterised by this freshness, by spiritual life out of death really.

JS I was thinking of the city at the end of Revelation, it has a river of water of life. It seems to me the means for things being kept fresh and in life.

WMcK Exactly. What a wonderful setting that is. While the full thought of the assembly is typified in that figure, yet something like that should be found in our localities. It really would lead to what Paul says to the Philippians, as to being joined in soul and thinking the same thing, and then he says, “thinking one thing” (Philippians 2: 2), this would be a practical result; that there would not be forty opinions if there were forty brethren in a meeting. There would be one thing, which is the result of the mind of Christ being among us, and that being operative, because all of us understand baptism into one body and drinking of one Spirit.

JS Could I just ask a question about a comment you made this morning in thanksgiving? You referred to the Lord’s personal body being in mind in “This is my body, which is for you”, 1 Corinthians 11: 24. Could you help us on that?

WMcK Well, it symbolises the body in which He was here as Man, in flesh and blood, and that is what was given up in death. That is what is before us, and as it says in chapter 11, verse 24, “This is my body, which is for you”. Well, it must be the Lord’s body as He was here that is in mind, and we discern that it is the Lord’s personal body in the loaf. I know we refer sometimes to the fact that the loaf includes every believer, which is not quite accurate, it includes every believer who has the Spirit, but that is not the prominent thought in the loaf, and it is clearly not a reference to the Lord’s body of glory. We do not appropriate that. We shall be like Him in His body of glory, but what we appropriate is His body as devoted in love to the will of God, and in which He went into death in love for us. That is what you understand, is it not?

JS Yes, that is how I understand the truth. I think it is important to realise what the Lord says about the Supper, ‘For the calling of me to mind’ (see footnote). It seems to be calculated to engage our affections with Himself principally.

WMcK Well, it is. The prominent thought is that it is the Lord’s personal body, “This is my body”, and I do not think really that the Lord is speaking about the thought of the assembly as His body. He is speaking about His own body, for He says, “this do in remembrance of me” or ‘For the calling of me to mind’. I hope we are all clear about that. Chapter 10 is a different thought, “we, being many, are one loaf”, but, as we have said, that is not the Lord’s supper. The emblems are there, the cup comes first because it is a question of the fellowship we have on the .ground of His death, but when it comes to the time of remembrance it is the Lord’s personal body and it is for a calling of Him to mind.

JS 1 Corinthians 10 governs our associations in fellowship all the way through the week, especially in the wilderness setting, but when you come to 1 Corinthians 11 you are on the ground of the Lord’s day, the first day of the week. It is principally for the Lord Himself.

WMcK Yes. Actually 1 Corinthians 10 involves that we are in the wilderness, and our faithfulness to the Lord and our fidelity to His death are tested and proven. But in 1 Corinthians 11 we are in the assembly, and what is before us is His memorial and, as we break the bread it makes way for the Lord to come in and make Himself known.

JS So it is really a personal appeal from the Lord Himself, from the Lord Jesus, to every believer who loves Him, to do this because we love Him.

WMcK Exactly. So that if I really love the Lord the first thing I would want to do is act in relation to His request in love, “this do in remembrance of me”.

Reading at Dundee
24 August 2003

KEY TO INITIALS

A. P. Grant

W. McKillop

J. Strachan

G. B. Grant

S. McLaren

J. A. Walker

N. J. Henry

T. McLaren

K. Walker