THE TABLE AND THE CANDLESTICK
2 Corinthians: 4: 5-11
A.J.G. We had this morning the first part of Exodus 25, what was before us being God's desire to have a dwelling place amongst his people, and that we all are to have our part in providing what He looks for in his dwelling place. So the children of Israel were to bring the various materials that He required. We were saying that what we bring is really ourselves, but ourselves as formed in features that are according to God, as learned from God, learned in Christ, learned in the Spirit; having appreciation, too, of the work of God in one another. And then that the great centre of the system is Christ, to reside in the ark and the mercy seat upon it. God is apprehended as taking His seat there between the cherubim, and speaking from that point. So that we are to know more of going into the holiest and contemplating Christ, a man who came into this world with the sole purpose of doing God's will, of delighting in it; and to bring in a man of his own character who would delight in God's will. And then that God is to be known in His mercy.
We are to allow the sense of mercy to affect our spirits, so that it regulates us in our relations with one another.
I thought this afternoon we might get one or two thoughts in relation to the next two great features of this system. That is firstly the table, suggesting the saints under God's eye as ministering to His pleasure; not exactly in a priestly way, but as presenting under God's eye the features of Christ. And then also the great system of light. There is also the great system of light to reside in the candlestick. So the scriptures we have read refer to the table and the candlestick. I think the passage in Colossians will link with the table, and the passage in Corinthians will link with the candlestick. And the passage in Corinthians will link with the candlestick. It is a great thing to get some idea of the glorious system that is existent here on earth in the saints, in whom God dwells, and amongst whom these features should be discernible.
There are other features, of course, which we cannot touch on today: the altar of incense, prayer in relation to divine interests; the altar of burnt offering, the constant sense of acceptance with God; the provision, too, to meet sin if it arises. And the whole system of sacrifice. All these are features that God takes
pleasure in as characterising His dwelling place among the saints.
But we might get help together this afternoon on these two features of the table and the candlestick. The first thing that is mentioned about the table—the table no doubt is typical of Christ Himself, as presented in Colossians, as able in his own life and under His influence to sustain the saints for the pleasure of God. But in the verse where we started reading, we have the suggestion of the saints. That is, on the table there are dishes, and cups, and goblets, and bowls with which to pour out. It is a question of a system in which the saints appear as vessels that furnish the pleasure of the heart of God. Then also the showbread is on the table, speaking of the order of manhood, the heavenly order of manhood seen in the saints, set together in love and in order, in unity.
Rem. It says, “of pure gold shalt thou make them”. But thus be the saints as formed in the divine nature.
A.J.G. Yes, I think it would be. I think it
would help us if we could more continually carry in our minds that we constitute this great system which God has on earth in His saints. And it is intended to have these different features. The passage we read in Leviticus speaks of “continually”. Several times over
there is the expression “continually”. And the “pure table”, “pure frankincense”, as though divine thoughts are to go through in their purity continually, right through to the coming of the Lord. We are to see to it that it is so.
Ques. Is there a kind of correspondence between the vessels and the loaves? The loaves perhaps setting out the truth abstractly before God, but the vessels, the saints in love, prepared to serve in that connection?
A.J.G. I think so. I think what you say helps, that the loaves really are the saints abstractly according to divine thoughts, as before God. And therefore, as we have often noticed, when David was about to enter upon a period of rejection and persecution by the people of God, he was strengthened by feeding on showbread. A great thing if there are conditions of difficulty in any locality, or if any of the saints are not behaving as they ought to behave, as saints of God, it is a good thing to nourish your soul on how God regards them in Christ. So that you are preserved in your spirit, whatever happens. What would you say?
Ques. Is that true of Corinth? Does Paul speak of the saints abstractly first, before he begins to touch on their state?
A.J.G. Yes, exactly.
Rem. Is it in your mind that these vessels should be constantly available for commission, for usefulness?
A.J.G. Yes, that is what the saints should be, vessels available to afford pleasure to the heart of God. There is a variety: some are dishes, some are cups, some are goblets some are bowls, but there is variety in them; but at the same time they are all for this purpose. To pour out so that there might be something for the pleasure of God.
Ques. I suppose the drink offering would be included, would it?
A.J.G. I suppose so. Paul spoke of himself as being ready to be poured out in Philippians (Phil 2: 17), and in Timothy it had come,. He says, “I am already being poured out”, 2 Tim 4: 6. It involves that you are entirely used—it is the will of God—without any reserve. If water is being poured out, it cannot be gathered up again. And that is the idea, I believe, that as devoted to God's will, there is no reserve. You are wholly here for his pleasure.
Rem. The consideration of that would help
us and preserve us, would it not, that these vessels, primarily in themselves, were constructed to be receptacles for usefulness. How often we are concerned about what we
receive among the brethren, which has its place, but primarily for God.
A.J.G. It greatly elevates our view of our position here, set among the saints, to think that God has in His people this system, in which His pleasure is being continually ministered to, and that we are to hold ourselves in that night is available for the pleasure of God.
Rem. The saints of Macedonia had that in mind, that they gave themselves first to the Lord, and then to the apostles by God's will.
A.J.G. Well, there you are. It shows that they have embraced the idea.
Ques. Would you say that they are vessels of capacity, although of different degrees?
A.J.G. Well, that is clear. Vessels of capacity, it may be varying capacity. And no doubt vessels will be of different capacity in eternity. The great point is that they are to be filled, full vessels.
Ques. Would Daniel make it clear that they are vessels of quality, that holiness, that God is particularly jealous for the way that these vessels are to be employed, as he said to Belshazzar?
A.J.G. Yes, exactly. That is an important matter because as having been brought to Christ and
been sealed with the Spirit, we are vessels.
But then it does raise a question, and an important question, as to what use is being made of them and who has control of them. If the world gets any control of the saints, it is control that the world has no right to, and the world is jealous of it.
Ques. Would this be just the service God-
ward?
A.J.G. Well, I do not think it is exactly so
much the thought of formal service, which would be more connected with the priest. But rather that there is that which God can look down upon with pleasure. That is why I think Colossians suggests the idea that they are elect of God, holy and beloved, and then certain features that are to mark the faith. It's a question of a system in which God conceives Christ, the life of Christ, working out in detail in the saints under his eyes.
Rem. When Paul writes to the Philippians,
he speaks of what they had sent him, “an odour of sweet savour, an acceptable sacrifice, agreeable to God”, Phil 4: 18. A very similar word used in regard to the sacrifice of Christ Himself in Ephesians when He delivered up Himself, Eph 5: 2.
A.J.G. Well, exactly. And then you see the detail of that action of the Macedonians, the Philippians. They were poor, as we gather, from Scripture, and yet they had things that they were going to send to the apostle that they knew would be acceptable to him; and one of their number had to carry them and undertake a perilous journey, a long journey, to bring them to Paul. And he does it and he nearly loses his life over it. All that was attractive to God, all those movements the thought of the Philippians in providing the things and the action of Epaphroditus in carrying them. All that was delightful to God.
Rem. That would be the pouring out from the vessels.
A.J.G. It would indeed.
Ques. What is the purpose of the vessels, with which to pour out? Does it suggest a state of readiness from our part?
A.J.G. I think it does. To pour out means
that you just extend yourself. As the Samaritan said to the host, “whatsoever thou dost expend more”, Luke 10: 35. As though to say, I am not going to impose any limitation on the
movement of love. You can extend yourself to any degree. You can pour out, so to speak, to your heart's content.
Rem. It is interesting that the apostle in Philippians speaks first of being poured out before he speaks of being filled. Would it confirm this idea of committal to service? God will see to the filling if we are prepared for the pouring out.
A.J.G. I believe that is right. And the more we are prepared to serve in any way that life needs, the more God will provide us with what is needed to enable us to do so. It may be material things, or it may be health and strength, or whatever it may be. But if he sees anyone ready to pour out, so to speak, do it if you have the means to do it.
Rem. I was thinking of Isaiah 53: 12, where it speaks of the Lord pouring out His soul unto death.
A.J.G. Well, that is right.
Rem. And the portion assigned amongst the strong.
A.J.G. Yes, quite so.
Rem. inaudible
A.J.G. Yes, that's how it worked out.
Ques. Was Epaphroditus a model of this?
A.J.G. We have just referred to him, yes.
He was sick nigh unto death. So he was
prepared to sacrifice himself in order that the love of saints might reach the apostle.
Rem. So the apostle refers to the house of Stephanus, that “they have devoted themselves to the saints for service”, I Cor 16: 15. Mr Darby says in the footnote, given themselves up to serve them.
A.J.G. Yes.
Rem. They were not devoted to service, but they were devoted to the saints, were they not?
A.J.G. Quite so. That is a question of what is learned from Christ. That is the great value, I believe, of the epistle for Colossians. So it says where we read, “compassion, kindness, lowliness, meekness, long-suffering, forbearing one another, forgiving one another”. It is striking that the Spirit of God contemplates that conditions will not be exactly perfect. There may be an occasion for a complaint against another, but if there is, let it become an occasion for the spirit of forgiveness according to Christ to come into expression. And thus what is imperfect in its terms becomes an occasion for a presentation under God's eye of what is supremely precious.
Rem. There are various ones mentioned at the end of Colossians. It speaks about Tychicus
the beloved brother, and it speaks about Onesimus the beloved brother, and about Epaphras, and Luke the beloved physician, as if these features that you are speaking about, referring to the saints, would be coming to expression at Colossians?
A.J.G. Yes, quite so. Especially in the fact he was a local brother and Onesmius, I think, was a local brother too. The apostle loved to indicate particular ones in whom the truth is exemplified, did he not?
Rem. inaudible
A.J.G. Yes, but say a little more, would you, as to what's in your mind in connection with what you are saying?
Rem. All that the mind of the Spirit is that, in any service in regard to the saints, they should be edified.
A.J.G. Oh, that is so.
Rem. Perhaps you have in mind, or would
it be going too far, to think of these vessels in the presence of God as being something of resources that are not quite public, but are there before God to be called upon at any given time. I am thinking perhaps of a locality where things might become unhappy and yet God has set them there to go on quietly and perhaps
privately with the pouring out for the pleasure of the heart of God.
A.J.G. I think that is so. I think what is in mind here is not exactly the service of those who are gifted or anything of that sort but more a question of their relations to one another as affected by Christ, held on the influence of Christ.
Rem. Remark about the woman in Matthew 26: 6-13, who anointed the Lord: it is that we should hold for the Lord?
A.J.G. Yes, she has done what she could, that is what he says.
Rem. Being in the holy place, not in the holiest, not in the court, but in the holy place would confirm what you are saying. It would be love relative to each other.
A.J.G. Exactly. And the passage in
Leviticus 24, which brings in both the features that we are speaking about—for the moment we are speaking about the table, but it also
mentions the candlestick—seems to be a remarkable passage because you get the impression that it is a passage that has particular reference to the last days. It is in the setting of a man who is the son of an Israelitish woman,
but at the same time the son of an Egyptian.
That is, there are mixed conditions such as we
have in Christendom all around us. And it leads up to this man blaspheming the Name. It is virtually apostacy. And the presence of these things, this idea of the candlestick on the one hand and the table on the other, is to be maintained in purity. There is a great stress on purity, pure beaten olive oil for the light, a pure candlestick, a pure table before Jehovah, pure frankincense; and a great stress on “continually” too. And so whatever the conditions around us, these divine thoughts are to be maintained by us and, more than ever as the end draws near, they are to be brought into evidence under God's eye.
Ques. That is calling on the Lord out of a pure heart?
A.J.G. Out of a pure heart, quite so.
Rem. Would the fine wheaten flour flower suggest that there is nothing to appear of the coarseness of these lines of nature that you have been speaking about.
A.J.G. Quite so. The fine wheaten flour is the the saint as formed after the heavenly One: “as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly”, 1 Cor 15: 48.
Ques. Are not the features you referred to in Colossians perfectly and attractively steps forth in the Lord Jesus in the four gospels?
A.J.G. Well go on.
Rem. I was thinking of bowels of compassion and kindness, which is Luke's gospel; lowliness and meekness, as Matthew; long suffering, perhaps Mark; and the thought of love and forgiveness in John's gospel
A.J.G. Yes; and then it says “let the peace of Christ reside in your hearts, to which also ye have been called, in one body, and be thankful”. It has in mind the saints set together in complete unity of affection, as affected by Christ. It is the question of the mystery, Christ and the assembly, a body held in relation to Christ as its Head, and deriving character and impulse from Him. How delightful all that is to God. as He sees it work out in practical detail?
Rem. “Rejoicing and beholding your order”, is again in Colossians. Would that be like the loaves set in two rows?
A.J.G. Yes, it would. Yes, it says they are
in two rows of six in a row, twelve loaves altogether, the suggestion of unity and love and, as you say, order. Now, all this is a question of our seeing how far it really does work out in our localities; that is one's concern, that one should not only have a kind of understanding in some
degree of what the scripture means, but where the thing is actually seen in our localities.
Rem. If they are to come into expression practically and concretely, it must be in relation to those who are near to you.
A.J.G. It must be.
Rem. I am thinking of the size of the table, it would mean that the loaves and vessels were close, would it not? There is a certain way in which the dimensions in a locality serves us to great profit in that we are not far removed from one another. It is a kind of compression in love.
A.J.G. Exactly, and hence you can understand the exercise raised by the Lord years ago as to not having the meetings too large, but if they grow, providing a second meeting, and so on. I think someone has said that really the size of the meeting is regulated, or should be, on the one hand by the one cup. It should be small enough for all to drink out of one cup. And it is also regulated by John 13, as to whether. At the moment you can wash the feet of all in the company. If you have got a company of two hundred you cannot do it very well. But if you have fifty you can, two hundred, you cannot do it very well. You can remember the names of fifty brothers and sisters and pray for them by name; and see to them individually, and make
links with them individually, and wash their feet.
Ques. Is this matter of being close and near to one another, conveyed in that further expression in Colossians, “and to all these things add love, which is the bond of perfectness”.
A.J.G. Yes, exactly.
Ques. Inaudible
A.J.G. Yes, that is the idea.
Well, then in connection with the candlestick, we have that it is a great system of light. Light has to God. And what we find in the Leviticus 24 is that we are to bring the oil.
To some extent the system is dependent on the degree in which we provide the Spirit. We have the Spirit, but is He unhindered amongst us? If He is unhindered amongst us, there will be light shining; light to affect us, light as to God, the mind of God, and then what God is. And then
it is to work out through exercise and pressure. There is the idea of beaten work. But first of
all, in Leviticus 24 it says, “command the children of Israel that they bring unto thee pure beaten olive oil for the light, to light the lamp continually”.
Ques. Is the feature brought into view the adornment in Exodus 25? The features marked in Exodus 25 suggest adornment and purity in Exodus 24.
A.J.G. Yes, I think that would be right. But there is the thought here of “continually”. And they bring unto thee pure, beaten olive oil for the light, to light the lamps continually”. That is, the light is always to be there. If we come to the meetings, for edification, to read the scriptures, or for ministry in other ways, well, are the spiritual conditions brought? The light may be shining on one occasion, but will it be shining equally the next time we come together? We are to bring the pure, beaten olive oil to light the lamp continually.
Ques. Does that refer to our spirits, or what does it refer to?
A.J.G. Well, I think it means that the spirit, the Holy Spirit, is free. We bring him with us in an unhindered way, I think, so that we can enter into the occasion and contribute to it.
Ques. Does the reference to the lamps help in that matter, in relation to the dressing of the lamps. and contribute to it. There is a link to Aaron: help in that matter in relation to the dressing of the lamps.
A.J.G. Well, you mean that the Lord has this system under his hand to see that it functions? Is that what you had in mind?
Rem. Yes, and that those who have to do with him are sensible of their relations with him as being of a sanctified company.
A.J.G. Well, quite so. And Aaron was to dress it, he is zealous for God. The Lord is zealous for God, that every thought of God should be in expression amongst us. But this is a remarkable passage because it places the responsibility on us to bring the pure, beaten oil for the light.
Rem. That fact is remarkable because we think as we meet of how the Spirit presents personally, Himself. What is the answer of bringing the oil for the light? How is that possible?
A.J.G. Well, it is the pure, beaten oil. That is
to say, it is a question of how I come to a meeting, it seems to me. I have the Holy Spirit and you have Holy Spirit, but then if I come without any exercise at all, and my mind is
filled with other things and, one has not been walking in self-judgment, well the pure beaten oil is not available. That is how it works out it seems to me. The Spirit is hindered and
quenched and the meeting is affected. The light will not be shining.
Ques. Does the Lord not say, “having no part dark”, Luke 11: 36?
A.J.G. “Having no part dark”. It really conveys that one is concerned that the Spirit should be active in me, and each of the brothers and sisters is concerned that the Spirit should be free to be active in him or her, so there is full flow for what the Spirit may bring in in the way of light.
Ques. Is it important that the thought of statute is linked with that, an everlasting statute regard to the thought of an everlasting covenant? At the end of verse 9 we have the everlasting covenant
A.J.G. Yes, at the end of that verse, we get the everlasting statute as well. What have you in mind as to it?
Rem. I was only thinking of the fixity of matters spiritually in divine mind.
A.J.G. Well, I think that is important, that
we should understand that there are certain
fixed conditions that are necessary. The divine mind is that the light should be shining continually, and that is to go on till the coming of the Lord. But on the other hand, there are
certain fixed conditions necessary in order for that, and that brings us in.
Ques. It says of Simeon in Luke 2, that he came in the Spirit into the temple (Luke 2: 25), and what light shone as a result. Would that fit
in?
A.J.G. Yes, it would, exactly. He not only had light in his soul, as having been told by the Spirit that he should not see death, till he had seen the Lord's clout, but he came in the Spirit into the temple. The result was that the whole position became lit up, as you say.
Rem. I was going to refer to him too. It says of him, that it was divinely communicated to him by the Holy Spirit. Did he carry in something in the way of the pure, beaten olive oil?
A.J.G. I think he did, but then it says he
came in the Spirit too, so that his movements were in the Spirit. There was no hindrance at all to the Holy Spirit. And therefore, what was a position that was extremely small outwardly became lit up with glory.
Rem. There was a background for it, in that he was just and pious.
A.J.G. There was and then he blesses God, that is the result; and then he communicates the mind of God to Mary and Joseph
Rem. inaudible
A.J.G. I remember Mr P H Hardwick telling me once that he asked Mr Coates the question somewhat on those lines—I could not tell you what the question was exactly, thinking that perhaps he would get a prescription that would help him. And Mr Coates said, well, I suppose prayer entered into it.
Rem. What you have been hearing helps us in that regard, because we do enjoy the thought that God has set up in our various localities through infinite grace what is intended to be a life-bearing testimony to His presence. At the same time, we are encouraged to think of what you say, that we should be concerned that the power of that does not begin when we arrive at the meeting room.
A.J.G. We are to bring it, we are to bring it with us.
Ques. Would you say why they were commanded to bring the oil here, whereas in chapter 21 they brought it because their hands prompted them?
A.J.G. Yes, but now it placed upon us because of the urgency of the matter. You see, we are in the presence of apostasy all around us. And divine thoughts are to go through. They are to go through right to the end, till the Lord comes. And it is a holy obligation placed upon us in our several localities to see that these things are actually working. And therefore it partakes of the nature of a command.
Rem. So that it is not without significance that, when conditions were so bad at Corinth, Paul emphasises and outlines the procedures of the meetings as we speak for ministry, as if it's very matter that you are referring to was lacking in their homes.
A.J.G. Yes.
Ques. I was wondering if it would be in order to suggest that what was lacking in current was perhaps conditions in the home so that the apostle outlines the meeting for ministry.
A.J.G. You mean that was an occasion for the prophetic word to come in to meet the conditions so they might be improved?
Rem. Quite so.
Ques. That is in effect of the dressing?
A.J.G. Yes, that would be the way Aaron dresses it, from evening to morning, I would say, yes.
Ques. Did not Mr Taylor say in regard of 1 Corinthians 14, that it was not necessarily the kind of meeting the Corinthians were having, but if they followed the instructions, that would be the kind of meaning they would have, and hence the necessity for us to be in the full gain of what is given to us before that chapter is reached?
A.J.G. Yes, quite so.
Ques. Do you think that light would make things very simple for us? There is no substitute for light, is there? I mean, knowledge will not regulate the saints, but light given currently is what we all need, is it not?
A.J.G. It is, I am sure. And that is what is possible as the Spirit is afforded the liberty that He seeks. Is it not so?
Ques. Do you think in a normal reading we should look for light, should we not? Not a rehearsal of something fairly well known, but
an added bearing of the mind of God on the position?
A.J.G. Well, that is exactly what one has in mind. And the part that our own individual
responsibility—every one of us—plays in contributing to that. There is the idea of gifts which the Lord has provided for the edification of the assembly, but at the same time we need this feature of providing conditions in which light can shine in this way.
Rem. So that the gifts are contributors, there is a certainty about them, would you say, but the Spirit would help us in this matter of our contributing as the oracles of God?
A.J.G. Well, that is what we are to have in mind, according to Peter: “If anyone speak—as oracles of God”; (1 Pet 4: 11) not that he is to assume that, but that is to be in his mind. It says, “that God in all things may be glorified”. It is not that people may go away and say what an able brother he is, but that God's mind may be conveyed, and that God may in all things be glorified.
Ques. Would you say, Mr. Gardner, that the responsible side is prominent, in regard of the candlestick? I was thinking of the setting in Revelation 1, where the Lord is moving amongst them.
A.J.G. Oh, it is. Very definitely.
Rem. It is not an optional matter.
A.J.G. It is not an optional matter. The Lord is moving amongst the seven golden lamps in Revelation 1, in order, because he is jealous, as the light of His church, and whether it glorifies God or not.
Ques. Will you include the thought of light-bearers too, in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation?
A.J.G. Well, I think that it is really the great system of light. It is really to shine upon Christ in whom God is known, but yet it is in human vessels that the light appears.
Ques. Was it not shining continually in Paul and Silas in the darkness of the prison?
A.J.G. Well, it was.
So what this chapter in Leviticus stresses that we are to bring the pure beaten olive oil, and stresses the purity of things, and that they are to be continued, the passage in Numbers stresses that it is a beaten work. This was the work of the candlestick it was of beaten gold. From its base to its flowers was of beaten work. That is why I suggested the passage in Corinthians, because while we have, of course, the idea of light shining in the Spirit when we come together for our meetings, there is also the idea of the vessels in whom the light shines, and not to be limited to the occasions when we are
together. And Paul showed us in this epistle for Corinthians that, as having this light, as one who was responsible to disseminate it, he was made to feel what something of the reality of beaten work. That is the pressure, the pressure which was brought to bear upon him which caused the light to shine only the more brightly, because he was intelligent in the matter and was determined that, whatever happened, the life of Jesus should be manifested in his body.
Ques. Whilst we think of Christ in the candlestick, would it allow of the assembly being brought in, especially in connection with the Spirit's day, Christ in the saints?
A.J.G. I think so. I think it is a great system of light in the assembly, in the local assemblies, because the seven assemblies in Revelation are the seven golden lamps. It is a great system of light, but of course it is Christ that shines if the light is pure light. And that is what worked out in this epistle to the Corinthians, that Paul had got this light from God shining in his soul in the face of Jesus Christ, but then it was actually working out in the midst of a great deal of pressure, beaten work.
Ques. Is that what Paul was jealous of in
writing in writing this first epistle? He was, as
it were, using the golden snuffers in order that
the light may shine in all its brightness in the second epistle?
A.J.G. Yes, and he was encouraging the Corinthians to accept their share in the tribulations by showing the spirit in which he himself went on. Although he was persecuted, he was not forsaken. Although he was cast down, he was not destroyed. He was bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus; not exactly the death of Jesus, but the dying—the purpose of dying. That being wholly yielded up and self-sacrificed so that the light of God should shine out in its purity. So it is that the life of Jesus might be manifested in our body.
Ques. Could the beaten work be analogous to the exercises of Gideon's men, his army being reduced to three hundred? Is it that which the apostle would have in mind?
A.J.G. Well, yes, I think that the second epistle fits in very much with Gideon's history.
Rem. It is with the idea of formation in suffering. Gideon seems to be impressionable.
A.J.G. Yes, that is it. Our brother referred earlier to ornamentation, and of course that adds into it too, because the life of Jesus being an expression is certainly ornamentation.
Rem. It gives a great object, does it not, to the suffering that we will be called upon to pass through?
A.J.G. It does, especially if we accept it as that by means of which what is of God, morally and known in Christ, comes into expression. You see God has come out in love in Christ. He has expressed it in the laying down of His life, going to the utmost limit that God might be known in His love and His holiness, and every way in which He is known. Now Paul has taken on that spirit and, having the light entrusted to him, he is prepared to go the utmost limit in order it might shine in its purity.
Rem. There is a very interesting feature in that chapter, you will have noticed it. It speaks of the “God who commanded that out of darkness light should shine, who has shone in our hearts”. Not merely for the shining forth of light, but for the shining forth of the knowledge of the glory of God in the faith of Jesus Christ. You think there is something beautiful about that, that in the process of the outshining, knowledge was imparted, the knowledge of the glory of God.
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. So the result is
that others are affected by the light. It is a great system of light to which we belong, and God takes great pleasure in it that there should be this
shining out of the knowledge of the glory of God, as known in the face of a Man.
Ques. So that Paul uses this matter skilfully, does he not? Because he characteristically was a sufferer, and it would appear as if the Corinthians somewhat despised him on that account. But in his skill, he is able to bring forward the fact that in these sufferings God had been with them and their lack of suffering somewhat explained their lack of spirituality, would you say?
A.J.G. Yes, I think that would be so.
Ques. Would Stephen exemplify what you are saying? He could say the same word as the Lord, “lay not this sin to their charge”.
A.J.G. Well, quite so; not the same words as the Lord, but the spirit of the Lord. The Lord says, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do”. Stephen says, “lay not this sin to their charge”. But he was exactly in the spirit of his Master; quite so.
Ques. Always bearing about—do you link that with the thought of continuing?
A.J.G. Yes, I do: “always bearing about in
the body, the dying of Jesus”. And you might say that was the principle too of pouring out in that too.
Rem. Mr Darby, I think often quoted a
Spanish proverb, that ‘it is harder to live a Christian than to die a martyr’ (Notes and Jottings p45), by which was meant, I suppose, the dying, “always bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus.
A.J.G. Yes, and we get the two expressions, “the body” and then “our mortal flesh”. The life of Jesus manifested in both the settings. The body, I suppose, would be the dignified vessel that a Christian's body is. It belongs to the Lord. But the mortal flesh would stress the frailty of the condition that we live in. And in spite of that the life of Jesus is to be manifested.
Ques. The possibilities in mortal flesh really are subject to the Spirit are wonderful are they not?
A.J.G. They are indeed.
Ques. Is there something beautiful about
the candlestick. There are no dimensions given. I think somewhere it says of a talent of pure gold. But then it is from its base to its flowers. That is, it reaches maturity and ornamentation, not exactly to a standard of height, but just in the normality of life.
A.J.G. Quite so, and that from its base to its flowers, this beaten work appears.
Ques. inaudible
A.J.G. Just like almonds. Well, I am not much good at detail, but it is some suggestion of life I have no doubt. I think the Armands might refer to life out of death. That is the great point in this second epistle for Corinthians, that God was rolling in death upon the apostle. And it is all there that the superiority of life might be seen in him.
Rem. I was thinking in that connection that the first chapter in that way would bring in something of the beaten oil, the pressure, the presence of the Spirit.
Rem. Paul had a great reputation for
suffering.
A.J.G. We are all to take it on in our
measure, this idea of being prepared to see that the light of God is shining in us, and we ourselves are devoted to it. It is not only a question of those who serve in a public way, although the setting in Corinthians, of course, is that, but then it is written for the edification of the assembly. So that the assembly should take on similar features; the assembly is the vessel of light.
Rem. The Thessalonians become great models.
A.J.G. Quite so.
I think the two ideas of the pleasure of God on the one hand, and light shining as to God on the other, are two great matters that we are to carry with us; not as just ideas but as something that is to work out concretely in our localities.
Rem. You can see a little as to the treasure. I was thinking of the treasure as following on what you have been seeing.
A.J.G. Well, I think it is the treasure of the knowledge of God, the knowledge of the glory of God. It is in earthen vessels, but it is to shine, notwithstanding that. Gideon has been referred to, and they had earthen pitchers and lamps in the pitchers. They had to break the pitchers in order that the light should shine. That's really what is being worked out in 2 Corinthians 4, that the earthen vessel is being broken, but as it is broken, the lamp shines more distinctly.
Rem. In Leviticus, it is to be according to the form. Does that suggest a complete idea?
A.J.G. Yes, I suppose it does. We are trying to get the divine idea now so that we should be helped to see to it that it is reproduced in our localities.
Rem. With Gideon we see the surpassingness of the power was of God, the whole suggestion with the three hundred men was of extreme frailty.
A.J.G. It was. And it is remarkable that it says, which I remember rightly, that they were to hold the trumpets. They had no weapons. Gideon had a sword. They were to hold a trumpet. He put a trumpet in every man's hand and empty pitchers, and torches within the pitchers, Judg 7: 16. So that every man's hand was filled either with a trumpet, to go on with the testimony, or a pitcher, an earthen pitcher with torches within.
Rem. And then they were to blow with the trumpets which would help to emphasise the surpassingness of the power of God, the vessels that God takes up. Paul, speaking of himself in his later years evidently, as having been insolent and overbearing, yet becomes a model of patience and love among the brethren.
A.J.G. Yes, exactly.
Ques. And would the continuance be seen in the fact that, after the combat, they return, not faint altogether, but it says “faint yet pursuing”, Judg 8: 4. Would that be your thought as to what is continual?
A.J.G. Yes, quite so, That they were to blow with the trumpets and break the pitchers.
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Note: in these two readings, only those on the platform had microphones; as a result, speakers in the body of the hall have not come out clearly enough to be transcribed. Mr Gardiner’s replies mostly address the brother by name, but it has been expedient not to try and identify all the speakers with initials.