GOD’S PURPOSE TO HAVE A UNIVERSE THAT SPEAKS OF CHRIST

Romans 8: 28–30; Ephesians 1: 22, 23; Philippians 3: 20, 21

PM I wondered if we may look together and have a greater impression of what it means that God will have a universe that speaks of Christ. It was ever in His thoughts that it should be so. The first man was never in God’s purpose; God’s purpose centred in man in Christ. Christ was not just the answer to the fall; He was in God’s mind from the beginning before the fall. In God’s ways it was necessary that Christ should come into His own as Lord of all things, the first Adam being set aside to make way for the One who would take up His rights as the One who inherits everything. I wondered if we might get some impression as to what God has secured in man. In the first passage it stands related to what is for the pleasure of Christ, and the place that He has in His own distinctiveness, “that he should be the firstborn among many brethren”. We have been called as foreknown, predestinated, to be conformed to the image of His Son. What a wonderful thing that is, that Christ should be the centre of a universe for God, a universe of men. In Ephesians 1 we have some sense of what the assembly is, as “the fulness of him who fills all in all”, that vessel being the expression of what Christ is. Everything must speak to God of Christ. He has this vessel, “the fulness of him”, not only who fills everything, but who “fills all in all”. We may get some impression as to that as we enquire. Then finally I wondered if we may get a touch as to the One who is going to transform “our body of humiliation into conformity to his body of glory”. I think the Spirit would delight to give us a touch as to what it will be when these bodies are transformed into conformity to Christ’s body of glory. Do you think we could enquire on that line?

EJM Colossians 1 tells how the Father has operated in view of the body holding its Head, the One God is building the universe around.

PM Yes, just open that up as to Colossians.

EJM I was just thinking of Paul giving thanks to the Father “who has made us fit”, then He really clears the ground so that the body can see the wondrous outshining of the person of Christ.

PM Yes, what glory is brought before us in that passage in Colossians 1. It brings out what He is, the One who is heir of all, suggesting the great scope of what Christ will yet enter into, and the body stands in relation to that, does it not? The Spirit would give us enlarged thoughts as to what Christ is coming into, and what God is securing and what He has secured in relation to this glorious Person. It was a divine necessity that God should have a universe that only speaks of Christ, but will speak of Christ in every detail.

RB Do you think the Lord was expanding Mary in John 20? It was referred to this morning several times in thanksgiving. He says, “go to my brethren” (John 20: 17), but it was an expansive thought that He had in the message, was it not?

PM Yes, He was ascending. It was communicated to a lover, so today things are communicated to lovers. I suppose in one sense she is a type of the assembly, in that she becomes the custodian of light that had never been known before, and she carries that light to the circle where His own are gathered. What light it was; He was ascending to His Father. We always have to guard the distinctive relationship that the Lord Jesus has. It was His Father, and our Father. He gives character to the whole order of relationships that God has established and will remain eternally for the divine pleasure; it is centred in that blessed Person. Is that what you are thinking?

RB Yes, He had not exactly called them brethren before, had He? It is as if the Lord was drawing them into the secret of divine counsel and purpose; it says that He made the stars also. They were the product of divine workmanship, and that was what was going into heaven with Him, was it not?

PM He had not called them brethren in that way before. He has spoken to them as to the fact that they were His brethren, “who hear the word of God and do it” (Luke 8: 21), but His word as to “my brethren” in John 20 involves new relationships. They could not know those relationships apart from His having gone into death and coming out of it. He is opening up relationships now in which they can be associated with Him out of death, and in which they will take character from Him.

EJM In Colossians again it says, “firstborn of all creation; because by him were created all things”, Colossians 1: 15, 16. Not one thing was created without Him. I suppose it is as coming in, in the incarnation, coming into the area that His hand had created, that He has the glory of the “firstborn of all creation”, and then He is also, as risen, “firstborn from among the dead”, Colossians 1: 18.

PM What rights He has! He will take them all up publicly soon but He has them already. He has them because He has come out of death. Everything for God centres in a Man who has come out of death, another order of man altogether. He takes up what is rightly His, and He will do publicly in a day to come. In Romans 8 we have what is being wrought morally; in Philippians 3 we have what will be wrought in relation to our bodies but in Romans 8 we have what is wrought out morally, that we should be “conformed to the image of his Son”.

JAB What does the word ‘conformed’ mean here? It is not so much the meaning of the word as the spiritual impression it conveys that I would like help on. There is a common use of this word where you conform to something, you do it for the sake of outward appearance, you conform to the rules of society, but it is nothing like that. I just would like you to bring out the spiritual meaning of the word.

PM It seems to me that moral conformity that is spoken of here in Romans begins in the affections and the moral being of the believer. This was ever in God’s view, that is why He took us up, that we should be conformed to the image of His Son, and it is being wrought out inwardly in the believer at the present time. Soon it will come into display, but it is not just an outward putting on of a new set of clothes. There is conformation right through the moral being of the believer that he is being formed according to the image of God’s Son.

JAB That is helpful. I am glad of what you say that God had this in mind from before time, that this moral process should be part of my history and your history and the history of every believer in this room. So God’s purpose has not only been an end secured, but the process through which we move morally to that end is also part of this purpose. I have never thought of that before.

PM That is why I read the previous verse because we do know “that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to purpose”. That working together for good is not just as though I work hard at work I will get promotion, that is not what is in view here. The prime thought here in the working together for good is the formation of Christ that is proceeding in the saints, and that in the ways of God, the disciplines through which we pass, and the circumstantial pressures, are working together for good. What is good? It is Christ in the saints.

RB The Lord’s expression to His own earlier in the gospels, “I will make you”, is that in line with what John is enquiring about?

PM Are you referring to Him taking up the fishermen?

RB Yes.

PM What they were as natural fishermen they were going to leave. When they went back to it in John 21 they went back to it because they had lost sight of their new relationship, but the Lord was making them something else, making them fishers of men.

RB You see it at the beginning of Acts in Peter when he stands up with the eleven, do you not? The product of workmanship, you can see Christ coming out in Peter.

PM Yes, really Peter’s commission began to take effect after John 21. It had in its fulness to wait for the coming of the Spirit, but even right at the beginning of the book of Acts you can see this formative work that had been taking place coming into expression in Peter.

DS Mark in his gospel said, “I will make you become fishers of men”, Mark 1: 17. It is a process in Mark. “I will make you” could be instantaneous, but Mark had been through the process and he just put that touch in.

PM And Mark is the servant’s gospel, he would give us some impression that if we are going to be here serviceable to the Lord things do not get put on automatically overnight. Formation has to take place if we are to be serviceable, and if there is to be effectiveness in service it comes from secret history with the Lord.

AGM So God’s ways with us are not independent of His purpose; they both have the same end in view. Do you think we need to consider that? We sometimes look at purpose on its own, and God’s ways on their own, but the great end is that there is a formation with us that is equal to His purpose.

PM And He orders things in the believer’s life that will serve His purpose. We used to be told when we were young (sayings that have come down are of value because you can hang your thoughts on them), that ‘God’s ways serve His purpose’ and they always will. God is God and His ways will always serve His purpose. What is His purpose? That we should be conformed to the image of His Son. You think of the whole history through the epistle to the Romans right up to chapter 8. You might say, how could God take up man in this way? What had he become, unregenerate, had not thought it good to have God in his thoughts. God has finished with that whole order of man; He has taken up you and me in relation to another Man that we should be conformed to the image of His Son.

AGM I think that is helpful. I would like if you would say something as to the “image of his Son”, the thought of image. Does it involve that there is representation?

PM I thought image involved expression, as you say, representation, and here in Romans it is coming out even here in the scene of testimony. There is already the expression of His Son in the scene of testimony. It seems to me to be a wonderful level that we reach here in Romans. That was God’s intention in taking us up, not only what we will be eternally (of course that must be so in His purpose), but even in the present time He had in view that there should be the expression of His beloved Son here in testimony.

JMMcK I was wondering about the matter of being foreknown, “whom he has foreknown, he has also predestinated”. It is very stimulating to consider that God had thoughts at the outset that He is going to carry right through to perfection.

PM What you say is helpful. In divine thoughts and divine purpose, we are speaking of the One who inhabits eternity. He purposed in a past eternity, and in His foreknowledge, He looked right through the whole history of time; it is a small matter to God to look down the history of time, but He had in view that even in the present dispensation there would be men like Christ. How wonderful that we have been foreknown! He knew what He was going to do, even long before we knew anything about coming to Christ as our Saviour. He knew what He was going to effect. I believe that sometimes we are hindered by limiting everything to our blessing. We never come to God’s thoughts in purpose if we limit everything to the enjoyment of our blessing; we must see what God had in mind for the divine pleasure.

JMMcK I am sure that is right. At the outset God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness”, Genesis 1: 26. Does that give us another impression as to how God had purposed that at the outset, that was what He was to achieve ultimately?

PM And in saying that, He had in view Christ, the One who is the image of the invisible God, He had in view that blessed Person. In the Old Testament God worked with man in the flesh, but when it came to the death of Christ He set aside that order of man altogether. It is a wonderful thing to lay hold of, that God’s purpose never had in mind man according to flesh. Even Israel will come into this later; they have not touched it yet, but they will come into it later, that God’s purpose for them is not according to flesh, but a portion in which they will live on account of Christ.

RB Is it not beautiful to see that when God took up persons in the Old Testament, it was features of Christ that He took up in them? Abraham was a friend, and Moses was the meekest man in all the earth, David was a man after His own heart, and so forth; there were features of Christ in these persons that God could relate to; is that right?

PM There were features that were formed in them which spoke to God of what He was going to bring in in its fulness in Jesus. It was not there in its fulness in Moses, the meekest man in all the earth, that was one feature that God found. Not every feature that was pleasurable to God was found in David, there were features that were not pleasurable to God, but everything waited for Christ and really God was working with these men having in view what would be established in Christ, you might say, with a forward look. He is operating in this dispensation in relation to what His purpose is, and He is carrying it through even in the days in which we are.

TM Counsel and purpose relate to eternity, and the things involved are worked out in time.

PM Counsel involves the way in which that purpose is going to be brought into expression, does it not? Divine purpose centres in divine love, it comes from the heart of God. Divine counsel involves that there were communications between divine Persons, involving that one divine Person would come into manhood, “Lo, I come (in the roll of the book it is written of me)”, Hebrews 10: 7. We have been told that that is the book of divine counsel, that one divine Person should come into manhood, in order that God might secure a universe that is like Him. How wonderful. We may get some touch as to the “body, the fulness of him who fills all in all”. What does that mean?

EJM It involves that all the features of Himself are seen there, do you think? Did not Mr Raven use this scripture in relation to Genesis 24 when Rebecca put on the veil and covered herself? He said that she was in the realisation that she was the fulness of Isaac.

PM Yes, why did he say that?

EJM She was to be wholly for him.

PM Yes, she knew that she was the expression of all that he is, but the time of that display had not yet come; she was going to hold that glory entirely for him. Here He “gave him to be head over all things to the assembly, which is his body, the fulness of him”. There is nothing in the assembly other than what represents and displays Christ.

RB In Genesis 2 it says, “Jehovah Elohim built the rib that he had taken from Man into a woman” (Genesis 2: 22). Would that be the idea? Psalm 139 would support that line of thought, would it not?

PM What is Psalm 139?

RB From verse 14 onwards, “I will praise thee, for I am fearfully, wonderfully made. Marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well”, and so forth right through to, “how precious are thy thoughts unto me, O God! How great is the sum of them!” (Psalm 139: 17).

PM You are linking that with the formation of the assembly. That is an interesting reference, “My bones were not hidden from thee when I was made in secret, curiously wrought in the lower parts of the earth” (Psalm 139: 15). In Genesis 2 the man says, “This time it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh” (Genesis 2: 23). Everything that Adam saw was the expression of himself, and that is what Christ has in the assembly. It must be so because she lives in the power of His life. She draws everything from Him, “the fulness of him who fills all in all”.

AGM Is this greater than Genesis 2, His body?

PM Yes, as being one with Himself, one entity, although it would include Genesis 2 I am sure you would agree. That is why I say she is living in the power of His life, that His life is hers; she is drawing everything as one with Himself.

AGM Every impulse in the body should come from the Head. The breakdown came when Eve acted on an impulse that did not come from Adam as her head.

PM Yes, and so one is she with Himself, that in the day to come when He comes out in His glory, He will shine through that vessel, no need of a lamp for “the lamp thereof is the Lamb”, Revelation 21: 23. He will shine through that vessel; she will be the expression of all that He is, both God-ward and man-ward. Would you say that?

AGM I would think that is right. It is beautiful to see that persons such as you and me are brought into that, and it is all God’s purpose. It really brings out a note of worship. Sometimes I wonder, Why did God choose me?

PM May we keep asking that question, because we are here on the basis of mercy. I believe that the more we appreciate mercy the more we will be desirous of entering into the heights of God’s purpose. If I feel that I have a right to the blessing, I shall be content with the level of things that centre in me, but here everything centres in Christ, the One who “fills all in all”. There will be the universe that not only is seen to be like Him as filled by Him, but there will be a universe that is formed in keeping with Christ. There is the inward formation in the assembly that will be for God’s pleasure, and will come into expression. How wondrous this is! We have a part in it now.

JAB I would like to understand verse 22 better. It is often remarked on locally but I still do not understand it fully. Paul is not emphasising here that Christ is Head of the assembly. He does that often in other scriptures but not here. What is he driving at here when he says, “gave him to be head over all things to the assembly”? Is it something that the assembly takes account of which is wonderful in its scope? Would that be right?

PM Yes, we can get help on it together. It seems to me if we look at it from the illustrations that God gives us in the natural relationships, that a man is head of his house; he administers the finance and the maintenance of the house. He is head over all that but he holds it all in relation to his wife. She is his chief object. He is administering the whole household in relation to what his joy is in his wife, and that seems to me like what Christ is doing. God has given Him a place of universal dominion and He holds it all in relation to the assembly; He is Head over all things to the assembly. She is the object of His affections in all that He is administering for the pleasure of God.

JAB Yes, that is very helpful. It seems to me another glory of Christ. He has that glory as Head of the assembly, which is unique and distinctive, and Paul’s ministry often brings it out in its glory; but here I think it would be wrong to say something wider than that (because you do not want to be too analytical about it), but as you said Head of a whole universe. The assembly takes account of Him and it adds to His glory in her eyes; would that be right?

PM It brings out what He is publicly, that publicly His headship will cover the whole universe for God, but He is Head to the assembly, that is the secret side. It brings out the greatness of the Person, that having been raised from among the dead He has been given dominion, He has been given authority, He has been given the place of headship over all things; He is the One who will fill all in all. How great Christ is and yet we are united to Him. I wonder if we realise how it would colour our relationships and activity in our local companies if we move in the light of this, that the One who is Head of God’s universe is Head of it to the assembly.

MB Is there any connection in what you are saying with Colossians 2 where it says, “For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily; and ye are complete in him”, Colossians 2: 9, 10?

PM Yes. “In him dwells all the fulness”, all the expression of what could be known and is known of God is dwelling in that blessed Man, and we are complete or filled full. We need nothing outside of Christ. I think it does link with what we are touching here, that everything is centred in that Man for God, and in Colossians it is centred in that Man as far as we are concerned. We are complete in Him.

MB Mr Darby’s note might be of help. It says, ‘The fulness or completeness of the Godhead is in Christ, as towards us; and we, as towards God, are complete in him’. We are on very high ground, are we not?

PM I read an article of Mr Stoney’s on the plane coming up; ‘High ground is safe ground’ (J. B. Stoney Vol. 2, p.37). It is only one page, it is worth reading. It is safe ground because it lifts us away from what is of man and holds us nearer to divine Persons. It is not for our mental apprehension, but to fill our hearts with the greatness of the One who is holding everything for God. We are complete in Him. I have to challenge my heart about that. Do I need anything outside of Christ or is He sufficient? He is sufficient to sustain the universe eternally for God.

JAB These statements, such as our brother has drawn attention to are true, and we come into the good of it by faith. Faith is something, I feel for myself, that I perhaps downgrade to the operation of faith in everyday circumstances, and initial faith in Christ; but we need faith for the heights, do we not? We are complete in Him is a scripture that is true and God has done that. It is not that we have made ourselves complete in Him. For our part we have to have the faith that that is true, and lay hold of it, so we need faith in the height of the service of God as much as we do in going through the wilderness pathway, do we not?

PM We do, and would you say that we need as we assemble together faith in the Spirit? I think the Spirit would help us to take our feet off the bottom; you do not get very far if you do not take your feet off the bottom, and the Spirit would help us. What may appear to be beyond our reach is available to us in the power of the Spirit and He would help us however young we are. If we lay hold in faith that the Spirit’s power is there, to take us from the scene in which everything militates against the work of God, and to take us into a scene in which everything centres in Christ. Would you go with that?

TM Would a scripture like this help us to value and appreciate that, whilst Adam had only dominion over the fish in the sea and the fowl of the heavens and the cattle, and was the head of a fallen race, now Christ has been given to be Head over all things to the assembly, which is His body. It shows the distinctiveness and glory of the Head in heaven.

PM Adam could never fill “all in all”. He became, speaking carefully, the title head to a fallen race but he could never fill “all in all”. There is only one Man great enough to fill “all in all”, and not only that the universe might display Him, but that it might be formed in keeping with Him. That is what is involved in filling all in all”. We are speaking of the redeemed universe, and it will display Christ in every detail, but it will display Him as formed in keeping with Him, ‘every feature Christ reflecting’. How wondrous, yet we have a part in it now. I wonder if I believe it that He has already got this place. It is given Him to be head over all things.

AGM Open up the expression “all in all” more fully for the young ones.

PM Well I do not know that I can. As our brother said, we are in deep water, but it seems to me that the expression “all in all” involves not only what shines out, but what is formed inwardly in the affections of men that will be for God’s pleasure.

AGM I think that is helpful, because what it involves is that there is a whole scene that is marked by Christ. There is not one spot or any area that Christ does not fill. He fills all and He is all. That is a wonderful thing.

PM Yes, and in the assembly and in a wider sense God will have secured His answer because of the way in which He has won the affections of men. How wonderful that He should have done it. You may say He has affected our conscience; yes He has, but He has affected our conscience in view of reaching our affections. That is what God had in view, “My son”, He says, “give me thy heart”, Proverbs 23: 26. That is a word to us all that there should be no reserve, but His filling all in all involves that every heart is satisfied and formed in relation to that Man.

EJM You get a similar expression in 1 Corinthians 15, “that God may be all in all” (1 Corinthians 15: 28). He is “all” objectively, and He is “in all” subjectively. Is that right?

PM Yes.

EJM And it also shows that eternally the Deity is going to remain.

PM That passage I think helps us because “then the Son also himself shall be placed in subjection to him who put all things in subjection to him, that God may be all in all”. He will be known through the One who is the Mediator. He will never cease to be the Mediator. The assembly will take up its place in mediatorial relations; in one sense she has it now, it is not publicly seen but she has it now.

EJM It is really Christ in the sense that He is God.

PM Absolutely, it must be so, otherwise He could not be the Mediator, but He will hold the universe as one because of the greatness of who He is, and because of His relations with the assembly.

EJM In Revelation 21 it says “the tabernacle of God is with men” (Revelation 21: 3).

God is going to dwell with men and His residence of glory is going to be in the assembly, but we will not see God. Paul says that in Timothy, “no man has seen nor is able to see”, 1 Timothy 6: 16. It must involve the mediatorial position.

PM And God will tabernacle with men through the assembly. That will be His dwelling-place. What a wonderful thing that is, that He will tabernacle with men. That is a wide thought and He will do that through the assembly.

RB Is not what is before us the product of the unselfish character of the service of divine Persons for each other? The Spirit is hardly mentioned in this chapter yet this is the product of the Spirit’s service.

PM That is interesting. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise in Ephesians 1, where the purpose of God is brought out (Ephesians 1: 13). The Holy Spirit is not emphasised in Ephesians 1; He comes in later, but the purpose of God centres in Christ. The purpose of God is to head up all things in the Christ. I think that is why the Spirit is not emphasised here because His service is to exalt Christ. How dependent we will be on the Spirit eternally; “that he may be with you for ever”, John 14: 16. I wondered if the Lord may just give us some impression of the transformation of “our body of humiliation into conformity to his body of glory”.

EJM John says, “we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is”, 1 John 3: 2. Here at the close of this dispensation we are going to see Him when He comes for us, when He calls His own to be with Himself, do you think?

PM Yes I think so, and what we shall be has not yet been made manifest, but when it is manifested, “we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is”. What we do know is that it is a body of glory. The Lord never had a body of humiliation, we have to guard that. We have bodies of humiliation because of sin but He never had a body of humiliation. He had a body that was devoted to the will of God. Stephen had a glimpse of Jesus glorified, and it affected him even outwardly. It may be, dear brethren, that at the Supper and in the service of God, there is even perhaps a change in the appearance of the saints as beholding the glory of the Lord. Is that going too far?

MB I have been thinking lately that the Supper is the best place to grow. We may worry ourselves about becoming conformed to Christ but the Lord says we cannot add to our stature by one cubit. We may try to do that by effort but the best place to grow is at the Supper.

PM Yes, how valuable the Supper is, and that as together we can know what it is to look on the glory of the Lord with unveiled face, “we all, looking on the glory of the Lord”, 2 Corinthians 3: 18. What we shall soon see of course will be His body of glory in its fulness, but the character of it, I believe, is to be known as we see Him by the Spirit in the service of praise. Is that right?

AGM I think that is right. You get the impression from this that it is the only thing that needs to be changed. What we enjoy at the Supper and in the service of God will be enjoyed in its fulness apart from the body of glory at that time.

PM I think that is encouraging. When we see Him the work will be complete, all that will need to be done will be the transformation of these bodies, “transform our body of humiliation into conformity to his body of glory”. What a change it will be. It is in the singular here, our body and His body. I believe it is the condition that is spoken of. We will see Him in the condition in which He is now.

EJM These bodies will be sown in corruption as we await this moment. When the Lord takes one and another to be with Himself, “It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruptibility. It is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power”, 1 Corinthians 15: 42, 43.

That is a remarkable thought that when we bury loved ones who have gone to be with Himself, this is the hope that though we bury them in corruption, they are going to be raised in incorruptibility. That would link on with this body of glory, do you think?

PM Yes it would. That relates to those who have fallen asleep. We, the living, expect to be here when the Lord comes. His coming is immediate, but when He comes these bodies will be quickened. He will quicken our mortal bodies on account of His Spirit that dwells in us. For just a brief moment the work of the Spirit in the saints will be so complete, here upon the earth, the bodies quickened, that for a brief moment (how can you put time on it?) there will be that quickened response for the Lord Jesus as He descends from heaven; divine Persons working together in relation to the rapture. It is a wonderful thing.

JB I was just going to say the same thing and draw attention to that scripture in 1 Corinthians 15, the heavenly One and the heavenly ones.

PM Yes, please open that up.

JB I do not think I can, but it just gives us an impression of the Lord Jesus and those who are like Him.

PM Yes, “such as the heavenly one, such also the heavenly ones”, 1 Corinthians 15: 48. That really sums up the reading, that God will have an answer in men, both morally and in the condition in which they will be, exactly like the heavenly One.

TM The scripture says, “He is Saviour of the body”, Ephesians 5: 23. Is that now? Then this would be His final act of Saviourhood, “as Saviour, who shall transform our body of humiliation into conformity to his body of glory”.

PM Yes, this will be His final act in relation to that Saviourhood. His being the Saviour of the body comes in in Ephesians. I believe His Saviourhood of the body is operating in view of us taking up our part in the assembly. It is not only that I might feel better, but His Saviourhood of the body is in view of me taking up my part in the body, and that I might be able to function in it, and so He operates in these mortal conditions in view of that activity.

Reading at Buckie
23 September 2007

KEY TO INITIALS

R. Bain

J. M. McKay

T. Mair

J. Bedford

A. G. Mair

Paul Martin

M. Bedford

E. J. Mair

D. Scougal

J. A. Brown