STATURE ACCORDING TO CHRIST
A.J.G. I have been thinking of the mantle of Elijah, the measure of the man who was taken up to heaven, as suggesting the measure of manhood in Christianity which God is looking for, and which the Spirit is labouring to produce in us. I thought the first passage, so well-known to us, brings in the thought of the Christ, appreciated by the woman as the One who was, henceforth, to affect her whole life, to direct her and influence her; but on the line of having to do with Him, not at a distance, but near. So that the Lord had said to her earlier, “Go, call thy husband, and come here”. He had not simply said, “Go, call thy husband”, which put His finger on the secrets of her life, but said to her, “come here”. And she said the same thing virtually to the men, “Come, see a man who told me all things I had ever done: is not he the Christ?” I thought the first step in any of us arriving at God’s mind in regard of us, is that the Lord is apprehended, and indeed appreciated, as the One who can raise every moral question with us and settle it, with the view to our arriving at the point where we definitely hold and look up to Him as Head, God’s appointed Head. Chapter 4 is largely on that line of adjustment on moral lines. When we come to Zacchæus, it is not that the moral element is so much in evidence, but the fact that there is a man who is of small stature. The question is on what lines we are to grow, not only to begin, but to grow. And that again is evidently in keeping the Lord before us in every setting, so that the Lord insisted that He must abide that day at Zacchæus’ house. The house is the centre or the base of operations, I suppose, for each of us. We may not have a great deal of time to spend in it, but at the same time we go out from it and return to it. So that if the Lord has His place in the house, He has His place at the centre of operations. And I have no doubt that Zacchæus, as having the Lord before him through a whole day, and in all the varied circumstances that would arise during the day, would be growing without his knowing it; his stature would be increasing. And in Philippians we find Paul, the pattern saint, we might say, near the end of his course. He has just one thing before him—the prize, “the prize of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”. He does not regard himself as having yet attained to the end that God has in mind, but he is keeping it before him—the one thing, and urging on us to do the same. I thought perhaps, with the idea of the standard of manhood which is before the mind of God, as apprehended in Christ in glory, we might get help together as following these scriptures through on the lines one has suggested.
J.T.Jr. In regard of the house, it says of Elisha that he walked to and fro in it.
A.J.G. Yes. You are thinking of what has often been remarked upon, the looking to see what might be in the house that accounted for the condition of death that had come in.
J.T.Jr. I was wondering if that might connect with your thought as to the house. It says of Zacchæus, “... in thy house”. It is in his house, Zacchæus’ house.
A.J.G. Yes, the place where he was responsible. Salvation had come to it in that he gladly received the Lord into it. But first of all, there is the matter of moral questions being raised and settled, because we are to be worshippers as the scripture says, but we can never be at rest in the presence of God in order to be worshippers, if moral questions are not first settled.
J.T.Jr. I am interested in your connection with the mantle of Elijah. You said you thought it was the measure of manhood as seen in Christ.
A.J.G. Yes, the measure of the man, the Man who has been taken up to heaven. We are not exactly told that Elisha wore it, although he rent his own clothes into two pieces, but he picked it up, as though at any rate he would always have it with him, always have it before him, as the measure of what is suitable in manhood in Christianity, taking character from the man who had gone up.
F.N.W. Is there instruction in the fact that they said, “The spirit of Elijah rests on Elisha”, not the mantle?
A.J.G. That is the only hope of anyone arriving at any stature.
V.C.L. The woman says, “I know that Messias is coming”, and then the Lord says to her, “I who speak to thee am he”; she has to discard the orthodox thoughts she had and really apprehend the Person. And is that somewhat like taking up the mantle?
A.J.G. First of all, there is the matter of adjustment. And with most of us, there is a great deal of that needed all the time. So that she is adjusted in the presence of Christ. He puts His finger on what opens up the whole of her history. He does not only put His finger on it, but He says, “come here”. That is, things are to be faced, not at a distance, but in the presence of the Lord.
R.W.S. Religion, or mere orthodoxy, which she seems, in a sense, to have, is not in itself adjusting at all, it must be the Person.
A.J.G. It must be the Person. Things must be rightly adjusted if we are to be secured as worshippers for God. And that is what He wants—worshippers in Spirit and in truth.
A.N.W. And it is not the confession on her side, like another woman who confessed and told Him all the truth? He is the one who tells her all that ever she did.
A.J.G. Yes, but she seems to be thankful that everything is out.
A.R. Does the prophetic word help all of us? She says, “I see that thou art a prophet”. Do you think the prophetic word helps all of us to get adjusted morally, in the presence of the Lord?
A.J.G. Yes. Anything that brings us into the presence of God, which the prophetic word normally should do, helps us.
A.P.C.L. In verse 25 it says, “when he comes he will tell us all things. Jesus says to her, I who speak to thee ...”. Is the one a general statement, which often is a substitute with us for coming into the intimacy which allows the Lord to speak to us?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. First of all, she speaks about the correct place of worship, and then she talks in general terms, as you say, “he will tell us all things”. But the Lord intends that she should face actual matters. It is a remarkable thing, that while the Lord makes Himself known to her, as the Christ, for He says, “I who speak to thee am he”, He would not allow the disciples to make Him known as the Christ until after He was risen from the dead. That shows that this is essentially an individual, private matter; not a matter of public testimony.
A.P.C.L. Would you help us as to what is involved in the speaking? In the other passages, it is not so much speaking, but abiding and looking upon the model; but would this matter of speaking be that instruction is necessary from the Lord directly if we are to get this adjustment?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so, and the power of His word is seen. It penetrates, it brings us into the presence of God. In the coming day, when the Lord comes forth in power, the enemies will be slain by the sword that proceeds from His mouth. It is the power of His word.
A.B.P. When the brethren of Joseph sat before him, the first-born according to his birthright, and the youngest according to his youth, the men marvelled one at another. Zaphnath-paaneah, the revealer of secrets, was there and they were uneasy in his presence. And is not John 4 a Joseph chapter?
A.J.G. Well, quite so, and that comes out here, because Jesus says to the woman, “Thou hast well said, I have not a husband; for thou hast had five husbands”. I suppose it was the directness and power of those words, a secret matter between the Lord and her, that caused her to say that He had told her all things that ever she did.
A.B.P. We should seek the sensitiveness, do you not think, that does not require everything being called to our attention, but as drawing into the presence of the Lord our consciences are affected?
A.J.G. Quite so.
H.S. Does the incident of David agree with this, when Nathan the prophet came to him with the word of God? He was exposed, but he judged himself in the presence of God and was free to worship.
A.J.G. Yes, that is a striking matter. But he says, “thou wilt have truth in the inward parts”, showing that his inward parts had been searched in the presence of God. In the Lord we have One whose inward parts have been perfect, absolutely so. So that in the offerings, the inwards could be opened out and all was pleasurable to God. Hence, it is not only a question of exposure of our souls, in what may need to be exposed, and not only finding that all is met perfectly for us in the death of Christ, but finding the answer to it as in perfection in Christ Himself. So that God does not only expose, He brings in a Head for us who is able to influence and hold us in such a way that we become pleasing to God.
G.V.D. So that truth in the inward parts must precede true worshippers worshipping in spirit and truth?
A.J.G. Exactly. I thought there was a link in that way with this chapter. The Lord shows that the worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth. It is spirit in contrast to mere formality, and truth in contrast to unreality.
A.R. I was wondering about making a good start. It says the Paschal lamb, in Exodus 12, was roast with fire, its head, its legs and its inwards.
A.J.G. Exactly; Exodus 12 is a very important chapter that we can well afford to go over continually. It is remarkable, because the assembly comes into view in it almost at once. And then the household, too, as that which is intimately linked with the assembly and a great support of it.
A.R. It says that they were to take a lamb for a father’s house.
A.J.G. As though the Lord would bring in the idea of the house and the father as responsible in it; responsible to exercise the right influence in it, but all with a view to the assembly.
G.H. In the expression that David used, “thou wilt have truth in the inward parts”, are we to understand that to refer to all our thoughts and motives?
A.J.G. Yes.
A.N.W. Hebrews 4: It says, “... thoughts and intents of the heart”.
J.T.Jr. And if our hearts condemn us (for our hearts can do that, it is not God doing it), it is perhaps a good thing, for it leads to facing matters.
A.J.G. It would bring home to us that we are not all that God intends us to be. That particularly seems to be very much a question of how far we love, in that passage in 1 John 3.
J.T.Jr. Yes; loving “in deed and in truth” is in mind. I thought that perhaps if our heart condemn us, there is something that is not right, but we are not just to leave it. God is greater than our hearts and we should have to do with Him about it.
A.J.G. Quite so. So that here the woman is having to do with God in the Person of Christ. And He can tell her all things, and then whatever is exposed, whatever the nature of it is, He presents Himself as the One who has given Himself to put it all away by the sacrifice of Himself. So that not only is the conscience clear and the heart at rest, but Christ becomes endeared to you; and then the woman comes to it that He is the Christ. He is to be Head to her. It is not just a question of being set free from what is past, but it is a question now of the lines on which we are going to proceed, and that is that we have God’s appointed Head from whom to learn and derive impulse and character.
A.R. Why does Paul suggest circumcision at the end of Romans 2 is inward and of the heart?
A.J.G. I suppose because the Jews made such a lot of circumcision in an outward way. The apostle discounts anything that is merely formal and outward, saying that real circumcision is genuineness of heart.
V.C.L. We do not get the woman’s repentance recorded in John 4. Is it left that the presence of Jesus is the guarantee that every matter was bottomed?
A.J.G. I think it is clear that it was. She makes a remarkable statement. In principle, she has been before the judgment-seat: “he told me all things I had ever done”. At the judgment-seat we are to receive the things done in the body, whether they have been good or evil. And here she says, “he told me all things I had ever done”, as though she has got the Lord’s judgment upon the whole of her course, every detail of it.
R.W.S. The reference to the disciples returning, in verse 27, seems to emphasise that this matter was between the Lord and herself alone. They wonder but do not say a word. Does that emphasise that it is really a personal transaction between the woman and the Lord Jesus?
A.J.G. That is exactly what I had in mind and it is effective in that she leaves her water-pot, showing that she recognises now that she is to be a vessel of the Spirit. It is by the Spirit that we are held in living touch with Christ and learn in Him more and more what true manhood according to God is; what kind of manhood is suitable to heaven, and suitable to the testimony here, too.
G.H. What is the instruction in John’s gospel that so much detail is given as to persons? In this chapter, for example, and in the ninth chapter, much of each chapter is devoted to one person.
A.J.G. That is very interesting, because it shows, as we have often heard, that John does not give us the assembly, but he gives us the persons who compose the assembly, and it shows how much expenditure goes into the formation and development of everyone who is to fill a place in the assembly. So that John’s gospel is much taken up with the work of God in individuals, and the Lord in relation to that work.
J.T.Jr. The disciples now should not wonder when we see that God is taking up matters with a person. I mean, we should be with Him in it.
A.J.G. I am sure we should. And it is a very interesting and encouraging thing that the Lord is available to every single saint. This work of formation has to go on with us all, and eventually it results in the body of Christ being formed, a vessel capable of expressing Christ in all His inherent perfection in manhood. Therefore we can understand how much has got to go on in the soul of each one, and the Lord is available to each one. He was available to Nicodemus in the middle of the night, he was available to this woman at the sixth hour of the day, he was available to the man in John 9 when he was cast out, and so on.
A.B.P. Does Paul let us into the secret of how he lived when he says, “Nor do I even examine myself. For I am conscious of nothing in myself; but I am not justified by this: but he that examines me is the Lord”? Would it seem that he was not content with just being clear in his conscience, but he would get into the presence of the Lord to be sure that everything was right?
A.J.G. Yes; and in 2 Corinthians 5, where he speaks of the judgment-seat of Christ, he says, “we must all be manifested before the judgment-seat of the Christ”. And then he goes on to say, we “have been manifested to God”, “and I hope also”, he says, “that we have been manifested in your consciences”, showing that he made a habit of that very thing.
J.T.Jr. Would you say, therefore, that the extension of this would be to the position locally? Paul was dealing with the Corinthians in what he was saying throughout the epistle.
A.J.G. Yes. And the local position is so important. It is a striking thing that the local position has two long epistles devoted to it; the two epistles to the Corinthians are devoted to the local position, because it is there that the enemy attacks.
J.T.Jr. So that if we see God acting in relation to one person, then we see too that He acts in relation to the assembly.
A.J.G. Quite so. And so in Psalm 51, from which Mr S quoted, David says at the end, “Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion; build the walls of Jerusalem”, as though he was confessing that really his sin had resulted in a breach in the wall. It had to be built up.
A.N.W. Had the Lord all this range of things in mind when He said, “... that I should finish his work”? It is remarkable that He should say, “finish” His work. How do you think he could finish with such a beginner?
A.J.G. Well, He puts her on the right line, and we hear no more about the woman. No doubt she received the Spirit when He came at Pentecost. But we hear no more about her because she had come to this, Is not He the Christ? As if to say, I recognise now that He is the Head that God has set me in relation to. She had had six heads of sorts but they were of no value to her; now she has come to the One who is to be everything that she needs in the way of influence, and affording character and direction.
S.W. She came under the authority of the prophetic word, for she says, “I see that thou art a prophet”, and then she speaks of Him as the Christ, which is the Head. As we thus come under the authority and influence of the Lord, do we not desire to have Him abide with us? The Samaritans ask him to abide with them. And so with Zacchæus, the Lord was pleased to say that He would abide in his house.
A.J.G. Yes. I thought that was important because Zacchæus was a man of little stature; that was his trouble. There was nothing wrong with him morally, as far as we know, but he was of little stature, and the question is on what lines can stature be increased. Smallness of stature is not going to be met on the lines that Zacchæus adopted. He would show a great deal of activity and sincerity, and run before and climb up a sycamore tree, and all that, but those are not the lines on which spiritual stature is developed.
R.F.D. Why is it that in this case the Lord reveals Himself to the woman as the Christ, but in the case of Peter, in Matthew 16, the Father makes it known to Peter.
A.J.G. I suppose the Father’s revelation that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, was a greater, fuller thought than here. This is the Christ as apprehended by the woman in relation to herself, that she is to hold the Lord in her heart as her Head.
A.R. Do you think that the probing of the woman in John 4 was to get her conscience to work, and Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians was to get the conscience of the local assembly to work!
A.J.G. Quite so.
A.F.N. May our personal dealings with the Lord Jesus begin either through the “must needs pass through Samaria”, seeking of the woman, or through a Zacchæus seeking Him out!
A.J.G. Yes; the Lord was seeking Zacchæus too. It says, “when He came up to the place, Jesus looked up and saw him”. It has been said that Zacchæus had put himself in a position where he was looking down on Jesus. What a terrible thing to do!
A.P.C.L. There was concern with Zacchæus; he sought to see Jesus, who He is. Was there not very much more in that than Zacchæus would understand at the moment!
A.J.G. There was, but what commends Zacchæus is his genuineness.
A.P.C.L. Would that involve what you were saying as to the character and the measure of manhood as suggested in Elijah’s mantle?
A.J.G. Yes. I suppose Paul would be very conscious of that when he spoke in the epistle to the Philippians about the prize of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus, because who Jesus is enters into the glory of the order of manhood that has come into being in Him, and we partake in it by the Spirit.
E.E.H. Why does Zacchæus say, “Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor, and if I have taken anything from any man by false accusation, I return him fourfold”? Is that an inward examination?
A.J.G. I think he was saying that that was what he had done. He was righteous in his business, and he could stand and say so, and the Lord does not deny it. He says that he is a son of Abraham. God commended Abraham that he would command his children and his household after him that they should keep the way of Jehovah to do righteousness. And Zacchæus was one such. He was carrying on his business in a righteous way. So it is not a question of adjusting him morally, it is a question of the lines on which we may increase in stature.
E.T.M. Is the strength and urgency of divine love seen in these passages? It says of the Lord elsewhere, by the Spirit, no doubt, He must needs go through Samaria, and here He says to Zacchæus, “I must remain in thy house”.
A.J.G. It is very touching to see how the Lord takes note of individuals and will lay Himself open to meet whatever need may exist in the case of each one.
C.D. The Lord says, “I must remain in thy house”. And then later on, “To-day salvation is come to this house”. Does the force of remaining in the house and salvation coming to the house, show the effect of the Lord coming in, that the power and strength of His coming would remain, so that the feature of salvation would mark the house?
A.J.G. I think that is right. We can see that if the Lord came into our house for a whole day it would not be necessarily that He was going to adjust a lot of things, but we would get a view of the Lord; we would watch Him to see how He did things. And then as we think of the house being the centre and base of our operations, the Lord coming into the house would involve His taking charge. It seems to me that if there is to be increase in stature you must have Christ Himself before the heart, because that is the stature to which God is working with us all. It takes the whole assembly to provide the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ, but that is what God has in mind. Christ is the pattern and the measure of it.
D.P. How do you view Zacchæus climbing the sycamore tree to see the Lord? Is it to his credit?
A.J.G. It shows that he was genuine in his desires, but he was going the wrong way about it. He was very active and energetic. We do not arrive at things merely by being very assiduous in reading the ministry, although by all means let us read the ministry, but that is not everything. We might be very diligent and very energetic on lines that we mark out for ourselves, but then Zacchæus had to come down and receive the Lord personally into his house, and he did it, and joyfully, too.
V.C.L. I suppose it would have been very evident that his stature was small when he came down and stood before the Lord Jesus. But he did it with joy. Is that the clue to how we get help?
A.J.G. Exactly, I am sure it is. He is not afraid to come down, and for the smallness of his stature to become apparent. But we do not increase in stature by being occupied with ourselves—either our smallness of stature or anything else. It is a question of the mantle; the measure of the Man who has gone up to heaven.
A.P. Does increase in stature, therefore, come as we receive the Lord joyfully?
A.J.G. I think so.
R.E. Would John’s two disciples following Jesus and abiding with Him be an advance on the Lord abiding with Zacchæus?
A.J.G. I would say so. They were attracted evidently, by what John the baptist said, and they followed Jesus and abode with Him.
C.B.S. Is there any point in the fact that Zacchæus stood and spoke to Jesus?
A.J.G. I suppose it means that he was able to take that stand. It was a true statement that he was making.
A.P.C.L. Does the Lord saying, in verse 9, “To-day salvation is come to this house”, indicate that the mere fact that Zacchæus can stand and speak of his righteousness does not involve salvation as the Lord looks at it?
A.J.G. I think it does. The Lord accepts the statement. He does not in any way reject it. I think it shows that Zacchæus was already characteristically a righteous man, but he must increase in stature as we all have to do.
J.T.Jr. Is the position to-day, with the Lord actually on high, that we are to regard the assembly, and the Lord amongst His people? We might take a position in the tree in regard to that. It is a serious thing to look down on the assembly, is it not?
A.J.G. It is indeed. If we are in that position we must abandon it.
C.A.M. Is it not remarkable that it is possible to arrive so rapidly at the greatness of the Person of Christ? As you said, we might assiduously study and read, but when we think of this woman in John 4 arriving at the Christ so quickly and the man in chapter 9 arriving at the Son of God, we see the great object for which the gospel was written.
A.J.G. Yes, it is that we might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.
B.R. The crowd was Zacchæus’ hindrance here. What would the crowd represent to us to-day?
A.J.G. Unexercised persons that are round about us.
A.B.P. Would the Lord’s word, He also is a son of Abraham, suggest that the Lord was taking account of what stature was there?
A.J.G. I thought perhaps the Lord was taking account of the rightness of what Zacchæus had said, that he was a righteous man practically, because that was what Abraham was commended by God for, that he would command his children and his house after him that they should keep the way of the Lord to do righteousness and judgment. So that it was not a question of moral questions having to be faced and solved, he was already a righteous man, but he was to grow and grow as having Christ before him.
A.B.P. We do not see, then, the evidence of that growth here as yet?
A.J.G. Not as yet, but I think we might say that a day in which the Lord would be before him in all the varied circumstances that might arise in the day, would be sure to produce some increase of stature without the man being aware of it or occupied with it.
A.N.W. Say a practical word, please, about salvation coming to the house.
A.J.G. If the Lord is in control and giving character to what is done, that does mean salvation, does it not?
A.N.W. It is a very large word, and much needed.
A.J.G. It is needed because it affects the service of God; it affects the testimony. So David, in Psalm 132, is concerned that God’s priests should be clothed with righteousness, and God says I will also clothe her priests with salvation. It is a much greater thought, complete salvation from everything that would hinder the acceptable service of God.
J.H.H. There seems to be no pride about Zacchæus. He was not a proud man, or he never would have come down so quickly.
A.J.G. No, quite so.
A.P.C.L. In verse 10, the Lord says, “the Son of man has come to seek and to save that which is lost”. There may be houses where persons have been lost and perhaps there is little concern about it in the house itself. Do you think the way in which the Lord adds this word would really bring in the element of responsibility as salvation comes to the house?
A.J.G. I think it would. As you say it is a word that would exercise us as to any who are for the time being lost, as to whether the Lord may bring in salvation.
B.T. Would we acquire power and stature in building up one another as Paul says in Romans 14: 19, “let us pursue the things which tend to peace, and things whereby one shall build up another”? Would we ourselves grow in that way?
A.J.G. I think so.
B.T. In the Song of Songs, it says in relation to the little sister, “If she be a wall, We will build upon her a turret of silver; And if she be a door, We will enclose her with boards of cedar”.
A.J.G. Yes, quite so; so that you make the most of what there is and seek to add to it.
A.R. Why does the Lord speak of Himself as the Son of man having come to seek and to save?
A.J.G. The Lord usually refers to Himself as the Son of man. He had come in on man’s behalf to meet all that lay upon man, and then to bring in in Himself all that is in the heart of God for man.
A.R. Does it suggest that He is operating beyond the Jewish sphere?
A.J.G. It goes beyond what is Jewish. The Lord constantly, in speaking of Himself as the Son of man, really sets aside what was Jewish.
V.C.L. The Lord says, I must remain, but then, salvation is come. Would it be that having opened the centre and base of our operations to the Lord Jesus, salvation would continue to be there in the power of the Spirit?
A.J.G. Exactly. It is assumed, I think, that having arrived at that point you maintain it.
A.F.N. The Lord goes on to speak of the ten minas and trading. Is it that growth is carried on in the assembly on the principle of trading?
A.J.G. Yes, faithfulness in trading. To him that has shall be given, and he shall be in abundance.
P.O.E. Does increase of stature commence as soon as we start to do what is right? In relation to Zacchæus, he came down and received the Lord with joy. Would that not in itself be a start in growth?
A.J.G. Well, it seems to me it is more a basis for it that there is no moral question outstanding. I do not know that doing right by itself becomes a question of growing. Of course, we may do right as apprehending it in Christ. He loved righteousness and hated lawlessness. If so, of course, we shall begin to grow, but the true principle of growth, I think, is that we have Christ as the standard of manhood before God before our hearts.
A.B.P. When Paul spoke of forgetting the things that are behind, he must have implied that they all were settled, would you say?
A.J.G. Yes, quite so, there is nothing unsettled, but he is not occupied with them; he is forgetting them. He says one thing. It is a very remarkable thing that just shortly before Paul departed to be with Christ—for although he knew that he was to remain a little longer for the sake of the Philippians, what he had in mind was that he was shortly to depart—he should be saying, “... that I may gain Christ”, and, “I count also all things to be loss on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord”, and then, “Not that I have already obtained the prize ...”. He was keeping one thing before him. Whatever arose in his exercises, his assembly exercises or his individual exercises, as in prison, he took it all up as that by means of which this formation would be going on all the time.
C.J.L. Is stature connected with manhood? It says of the Lord in this gospel that He “advanced in wisdom and stature”, Luke 2: 52.
A.J.G. Yes, but we have to remember that the Lord is unique in everything; His humanity was perfect, so that He was perfect in every stage of humanity. He increased in stature, not in the sense that we have to increase in stature. We have to increase in stature in the spiritual sense because we are so small. The Lord was perfect at every point; perfect as a babe; perfect as a child of twelve; perfect as a man.
V.C.L. Do you think that the threefold reference to the Spirit in Philippians is a help in arriving at the “one thing” of which Paul speaks? In chapter 1 he speaks of “the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ”; in chapter 2 it is the “fellowship of the Spirit”; in chapter 3 it is that we “worship by the Spirit of God”. I thought that would be an indication of how manhood operates normally in Christianity.
A.J.G. I suppose so. Paul felt the need of the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ. It shows that he did not rely on his own spirituality or spiritual stature, he still felt the need of the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ to fill out, according to what was seen in Christ, the circumstances which God ordered for him which were peculiarly trying.
J.T.Jr. Do you think that each in his measure has to know something about suffering loss?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. There are many things that we might have, which you might not say are wrong things, but if they hinder us it is a good thing to lose them, is it not?
J.T.Jr. Yes. The calling on high is, I suppose, really the contrast to heights in the world.
A.J.G. Yes; I think so. The calling on high is not here called a heavenly calling as in Hebrews, or a holy calling as in 2 Timothy, but the calling on high seems to specially stress its moral elevation.
F.N.W. What is the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus?
A.J.G. To be exactly like Christ—the heavenly Man. One marvels at the order of manhood that has come in in Christ—one of the Godhead having entered into manhood in order that manhood marked by every moral perfection and in full measure should be there under the eye of God.
B.R. Is that the idea of verse 15, “As many therefore as are perfect”?
A.J.G. No, I think that refers to those who have arrived at this in their souls, that they have repudiated the first man and have got Christ before them. It does not mean that we have arrived at the end because Paul says, “Not that I have already obtained the prize, or am already perfected”. So that he admits that even he is not already perfected, and yet he is perfect in the sense that he refers to here in this expression, “as many therefore as are perfect”.
A.R. Why does he say, “Be imitators all together of me, brethren”, v 17?
A.J.G. That is a remarkable thing, because we might think that if we have Christ before us, that is an unattainable measure. And so the Spirit of God allows Paul to present himself as a model, not, perhaps, absolutely perfect, but to show how near to perfection a man of like passions to ourselves can come even though we are still here.
A.R. Is that the mantle?
A.J.G. Well, he had the mantle before him, I think, and in a sense he passes on his mantle to Timothy, I believe, when he tells him to bring the cloak that he left at Troas at Carpus’s. That is to say, Timothy is to be reminded of Paul’s measure.
C.D. And is it to come down to those to whom we look to-day as taking a lead amongst us? In Hebrews 13, “Remember your leaders who have spoken to you the word of God; and considering the issue of their conversation, imitate their faith”, v 7. Has it been demonstrated amongst us in the same way that Paul would draw attention to himself?
A.J.G. I suppose it has in measure. I think Paul was exceptional because he is the only one who is allowed by the Spirit of God, as far as I understand it, to say, “Be imitators … of me”.
E.T.M. Do you think it is touching in that way that as regards the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, he links the supplication of the saints with it?
A.J.G. I do. It is a very striking and encouraging thing that we may help one another in this way.
G.V.D. Is it not in your mind that not only our leaders but all the saints should come up to this standard of manhood that is before us?
A.J.G. That is exactly what one has in mind, because it is not only leaders who have part in the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus, we all have part in it. And Paul is not exactly presenting himself as a leader here; he does not write as an apostle; he writes as a bondman—Paul and Timotheus, bondmen of Jesus Christ. And here he says, “Be imitators all together of me, brethren”. He is not speaking in a tone of authority. He is speaking in the tone of encouraging the brethren by letting them see what marks him as a pattern saint, you might almost say.
J.T.Jr. He would be an expression of the commonwealth.
A.J.G. Yes, indeed.
C.S.M. What was in his mind when Paul, in Galatians 1, says that God “was pleased to reveal his Son in me”? Had he some sense of what he was himself?
A.J.G. It would appear that way. He goes on to say, “... that I may announce him as glad tidings among the nations”. That would be the announcement, but I have no doubt that those who had eyes to see would discern in Paul that there was a man who was in liberty in fact; he was not only preaching sonship, but he obviously was in the liberty of sonship.
A.R. It says, “fix your eyes on those walking thus as you have us for a model”.
A.J.G. Exactly. It shows the importance of a good example. It is a constant responsibility with those who seek to minister the word as to being in keeping ourselves with what we minister, because the saints are helped by example as well as by precept.
R.M. Why does Paul bring in, in this happy setting, this sad matter of verses 18 and 19, those who were cause for weeping, who mind earthly things?
A.J.G. I suppose it is just a reminder of the actual facts of the matter. There were those who were going on as Paul was, but there were those who were not, and these, I suppose, would hardly be Christians at all because it says, “... whose end is destruction”.
S.W. Would you say a little more about helping one another? It may not always be with a word, but would bowels of compassion, and working things out in love be important?
A.J.G. They would, and influence; every one of us is either an influence for good or an influence for evil. I think it is a good thing to keep the thought of stature before us. Not that we want to be occupied with ourselves or our stature, but Paul here, at the end of his course, is saying this to us, “fix your eyes on those walking thus as you have us for a model”.
G.H. I would like to get more help on verse 15, which says, “As many therefore as are perfect, let us be thus minded”. What do you understand by that?
A.J.G. Well, it means full-grown. That is to say, I think it just means, as Mr Stoney used to say10, We have changed our man. We are no longer giving recognition to the first man or the flesh; but are with God in His rejection of that, and we have Christ before us. But the point is now to have the measure of it—the full thought of the mantle, the measure of the man.
R.W.S. And then the end of that verse, “... and if ye are any otherwise minded, this also God shall reveal to you”. Is it not stimulating that God is helping us on this line, as in this meeting tonight?
A.J.G. Very encouraging, I think that if we are on this line, we can count on the help of God because this is the line that He is on.
E.E.H. Is verse 21 the end reached?
A.J.G. It is, and so far as our bodies are concerned, it will not take long, a twinkling of an eye, but so far as the moral conformation is concerned it is taking a good long time, but there is no reason why we should hinder it.
E.M. In relation to Paul’s cloak, which you referred to earlier, the following comment is about the books and the parchments. Is that not a wonderful connection that the ministry that has come to us only makes room for the parchments to be wrought upon by God, that every one of us should be in line with the measure?
A.J.G. Well, quite so.
C.R.McL. Can something be said about our commonwealth which has its existence in the heavens?
A.J.G. It is our commonwealth, something that we boast in—our commonwealth has its existence in the heavens. It is to take our minds off earth and earthly standards, and what is current amongst men and that kind of thing that we so easily take character from. And so the apostle says, “our commonwealth has its existence in the heavens”. It is to elevate our thoughts.
A.B.P. Does the commonwealth give the suggestion that if we are called out of the world where there might be considerable opportunity for expansion and activity, we have been linked on with something where there is plenty of scope? We can broaden out into the manner of life into which we have been called, in its various departments.
A.J.G. Yes. It is striking in 2 Corinthians 6 where the apostle raises the question of unequal yokes, that he tells the Corinthians to be enlarged. Being involved in this kind of thing only results in contraction spiritually. To get free of them results in enlargement.
A.N.W. So that the note here guides us. Commonwealth may be translated ‘associations of life,’ a very telling word.
A.J.G. Yes, quite so.
G.H. It says, “Let us be thus minded”. And in Colossians it says, “Have your mind on the things that are above”. And then, in Romans 7, it says, “So then I myself with the mind serve God’s law”. Is it that the renewed mind is set on these things by the Spirit?
A.J.G. Yes. The apostle speaking weepingly of some who mind earthly things. Our minds are most important because we are so affected by what our minds are on. Hence the need of having our minds controlled by the Spirit.
A.P.C.L. So that in 1 Corinthians 14: 20, he speaks to them that in their minds they are to be grown men. Would that be in view of the working out of this in our local settings?
A.J.G. I would think so. And I think we can understand how important all this is and what an effect it will have both on the service of God and on the testimony too, if we can develop a little more in heavenly manhood according to Christ.
BROOKLYN
2nd December 1958
From Notes of Readings in New York 1959, vol 28
____________________