CHAPTER 3
CHAPTER 3
This chapter is very important, for it gives the true character of the circumcision, the proper moral characteristics. The apostle makes nothing of what [p. 376] was external. Circumcision was nothing in itself — the value of it was in spirit, not in letter; and you get here the marks of true circumcision. It meant the putting off of the flesh. God said, as it were, to Abraham, I will have you, but not the flesh. The true character of circumcision comes out in the Christian, because the power has come in practically to set the flesh aside. Circumcision was necessary for the entering into and enjoyment of relationship with God.
Why does the apostle say he might have confidence in the flesh? — He meant that he had something he might boast in: his antecedents. He was not a common man; he had a great many distinctions.
What is the hindrance to the Spirit’s work? — A short answer, but perhaps not a very intelligible one, would be, “The flesh”. The will comes in, lust in some form or shape, and the Christian needs to be exercised about it. The Spirit has only one direction in which to lead us — He would continually lead us to Christ.
In looking at the epistles, we are greatly helped if we distinguish between the aspects in which the apostle commonly looks at the saints. He speaks to them either as partakers in the common privileges of Christianity, or on the ground of their individuality and their responsible path. The truth is presented largely in that way in Romans and Corinthians; but in other epistles, as Ephesians and Colossians, the saints are viewed as possessing certain Christian privileges in common. In this chapter (Philippians 3) the constant use of “I” — the way in which the apostle puts himself forward — simply means that he is pressing things in the light of individuality. This epistle does not unfold our privileges, there is nothing about our being quickened together with Christ, etc. It presents more the character in which we are to be known in our relations one with another.
What about verse 3, “We are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit”, etc.? — I do not think that is a statement of privilege exactly. It brings in the thought in contrast to those who pretended to be the circumcision. The apostle gives the marks of true circumcision.
Is rejoicing in Christ Jesus individual? — I think so. The chapter is occupied with what the apostle was pursuing. He puts himself as an example, and speaks not of what he was, or of what he had, but of what he was pursuing.
How do you explain, “Rejoice in the Lord”. “Rejoice in Christ Jesus”? — The idea of Lord carries you out of the scene of sight; you have to apprehend it in its own proper connection.
Is the thought of “rejoicing” the same as in the end of Habakkuk? — Yes; there is no mark of outward prosperity, yet you rejoice in the Lord. You may be tested in that way. If you want to rejoice, you must rejoice in something stable.
Everything here is marked by sin and death. — Yes, quite so. What you want to apprehend is the greatness of the victory which God has gained, and the expression of that victory is the Lord Jesus outside of all that is of sin and death. I do not know anything more important than the fact that Scripture presents a faith scene to us, and I suppose that is where one rejoices; everything there is established before God. The glory of God is the result of the operation of His power. Christ is Lord, the Holy Spirit is given, and all goes to constitute that faith sphere and scene, which stands in contrast with the course of things down here.
“Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision”. There was probably a great deal of assumption in connection with those thus described, and we have to beware on that account. One cannot always see through it. People are blinded by the [p. 378] attempt to connect Christianity with the sphere that is, and all about you tends to encourage that idea. The pretension is, that Christ is in honour here — the church steeples and great buildings all tend to witness that Christ is in honour; and people naturally connect Christianity with the course of this world. They do not see that in its true power it is a sphere morally outside of this world. The care of the Lord as Shepherd is only known in His own proper sphere.
Is it because those in verse 2 were within, that they were told to beware? — I fancy in that day the cause of warning was the Judaising element, not necessarily profession.
I was wondering whether those spoken of at the end of the chapter are of the same class? — I doubt if it is so. I think “dogs” represent a class of persons without conscience or shame. I fancy it referred to Jews, but it might be a larger class; if not in the profession of Judaism, they assumed at least a certain amount of light. What is interesting is, that you get the marks of circumcision. “Concision” is used as a term of opprobrium. “We are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit”, etc. It is we Christians in contrast to Jews; the proof and description of the circumcision is that. The Lord had said the hour was coming when the true worshippers would worship in spirit and in truth. We do not worship in flesh; we only have to do with God in the spirit.
Is it not priestly worship? — I suppose so; but that is not brought in here, the object not being to open up and expound the subject of worship, but to give the true character of circumcision. They boast in Christ Jesus, not in anything of the flesh. “Christ Jesus” means the new order of man, of which He is the pattern. It is not a very easy thing to get hold of the truth, though we know it doctrinally, that there is no real worship apart from the Spirit. It is “Spirit-wise”; and not only that, the Spirit is the power.
[p. 379] It is by the Spirit that you worship God; but it is in your own spirit, though not apart from the Spirit; what is engaged is not the flesh, but the spirit. Spirit was not needed to be engaged in Old Testament days; there were carnal ordinances which could be carried out as well by the unconverted as by the converted man. The secret of all approach to God lies in the divine nature. John says: “He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love”. You have not the first element, you do not know God except by love. Reverence does not touch Him, faith does not, hope does not. The way you touch Him is in His nature, and that is love. You must, of course, have faith in His existence, but that is not touching Him, though “he that cometh to God must believe that he is”. But you must touch Him according to His nature, and that is what I should suppose it means to worship God in spirit. The power of the Spirit forms a believer according to God.
Is there such a thing as individual worship? — No, not in Christianity; it is not the spirit of Christianity. Christianity is the antitype of Aaron and his sons; a common person was not to draw near the tabernacle — the priests only drew near (see Numbers); and if one priest, all the priests, the priestly family.
You do not make three classes of Christians, such as the priests, the Levites, and the common people? — No; but it is important to be able to abstract yourself in mind from the other two classes, and to realise that it is as a priest alone that you have part in the service of the sanctuary.
Do all those present in a meeting worship? — I do not say that people do not join in the worship, but it is only as you are outside yourself, that you are really a worshipper. If you are to worship, it must be according to the prescribed order, or it is not worship. I would not attempt to define what worship is, but I am certain that for it, the soul must be conscious of [p. 380] what it is before God, according to God’s calling. You may come together as believers, and may pray or praise, but if you are simply in that character you do not worship. Worship is connected with the priestly company, Christ the Head, and we one with Him. You cannot be a priest without being a son, and a son is a priest. And for us there is only one place of worship, and that is the holiest; if God is not now worshipped in the holiest, He is not worshipped at all. Worship must be according to the light of His revealed will. Many of us have unconsciously lowered the thought of worship to the actual condition of those who do worship. It is disrespect to God to attempt to worship Him apart from His prescribed order — the new and living way which Christ has consecrated for us. Everybody must apprehend God’s calling for himself; but the moment I apprehend the calling, I find myself in concert with others.
The real secret of defect as to worship is, that people have not got to Christ. I do not deny that they are Christians; every believer on the Lord Jesus is a Christian, but they have not in their souls got to Christ. Peter was a true believer in Christ as his Lord and Master, but never really got to Christ till Matthew 16, when the Father revealed Christ to him, and he confessed Him as the Son of the living God, the foundation and pattern of the building. That is more than coming to Him as Lord, it is the Father drawing to the Son.
Is conversion coming to Christ: is it not more, Christ coming to us? — Yes; you come to Him afterwards. The Lord came to the lepers, and then one returned to Him, but they were all cleansed. It is the same thing with the woman with the issue of blood; she touched and was healed, but she had not come to Christ; grace had come to her, and then the Lord brings her to Himself.
What is the result in the soul of having come to [p. 381] Christ? — I have fresh light, and apprehend the purpose of God, of which Christ is the expression and revelation, and I am going to be like Him. Would you say that the mass of Christians believe they are going to be in Christ’s likeness! I do not believe it, the thought has never taken hold of them; they want all that is comely and agreeable here, but the thought of being in the likeness of His resurrection has never taken possession of their souls. Peter, though he started in a sense in Matthew 14, never got to Christ properly till chapter 16, and that was to apprehend Him as Son of the living God; and the Lord practically says, Now that will do; I am the rock, but you are a stone of the same kind as the rock.
Does the confession of Christ as Son of the living God imply divine generation? — Yes, you are akin to Him. He is the pattern and expression of the purpose of God, as though He said, I have become a Man, that upon Me, as Man, may be built up the purpose of God. I believe the thought has to take possession of saints, that if we have been planted in the likeness of His death, we shall be also of His resurrection — that as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. It would completely alter our ways down here, we should not be detained by all sorts of things on the way. People are detained, you are detained yourself; the secret is, not being in the light of the calling, nor the sense of the power which draws me to Christ now.
Is there not a sense according to Colossians in which we live together with Christ now? — Yes; quickened together and risen as well. The man who is risen with Him, is as much out of the power and influence of everything here as He is. As quickened with Him you live in His sphere.
Is that what you mean by the soul being in the apprehension of its calling? — Yes. So far as I am concerned people are welcome to have what they like [p. 382] here; but it may be an indication of where they are. I do not at all believe that God denies people any reasonable comfort. Having “no confidence in the flesh” goes pretty far. A man has to give up all idea of importance as connected with his earthly status; people often attach a good deal of importance to it, but if you have no confidence in the flesh you do not. I think that in the development of Christianity the Gentile has got, in his own thought, into the place of the Jew as a people of privilege. What meets it all is the consciousness that the world is the same from which Christ has been rejected. It has to be remembered that if God deals with the flesh at all, the Jew has a place which the Gentile has not. The new man is neither Greek nor Jew; it is not the Jew set aside and the Gentile made something of. I do not think the Gentile comes into any present status. He gets a part in the olive tree, but it is the tree of promise; it is not to give him any present status as a Gentile.
Why does he put “circumcised the eighth day” first? — Circumcision connected him with Abraham; there was nothing omitted in his case. There was, I suppose, a certain class of Hebrews who were looked upon as peculiarly pure as to derivation — a Hebrew of Hebrews; “as touching the law, a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless”. He went as far as a man could go in that line. It is strange how blind a man may be, hating people with all his heart, and yet thinking that he was really blameless. It was a sign that things were wrong if he hated people. Looking at things externally he has never broken one of the commandments. What he speaks of is what he was in the eye of man in flesh. A man cannot apprehend anything rightly till the light of God comes in. This is an immense thing to get hold of in the soul. You get the light of grace, and then you find out what your righteousness is worth.
[p. 383] The cross is the revelation of God’s righteousness, and in the presence of that, the best of man’s righteousness is not worth a rag. The moment man ceased to be what God made him, there was an end of him morally; it must be so if God is God. The setting aside of man for God’s glory was really effected in the cross, and now there is a new Man. It is striking, that when the light of God did come in, there was the breaking up of everything that existed and had pretension to light. What is man worth in the presence of Christ on the cross? It is the first principle of Christianity that God has brought us out of darkness into His marvellous light. People fail to take death into account as God’s present judgment resting on man; they connect judgment with the future instead of seeing that it lay upon man from the very moment that he departed from God; the man is condemned, his state is terminated.
It seems to me that people have but a poor idea of God morally, for had they any just thought they would see that anything that had departed from what God made it, would not do for God! There must be a new creation. The idea of a man like Saul asserting himself, and attempting to make out that he would do for God! The fact is that his taking such ground was the greatest possible proof of evil, for if evil had not come in, such a thought could not have entered into a man’s mind.
The persecuting was a proof of terrible darkness; and in it, Saul was not doing violence to himself, he was doing what pleased him, consecrating the natural hardness of his heart, as many a man has done, under the cloak of religious zeal. Even Christianity has become an excuse for the darkest evil. I think that self-assertion comes from people not being in a right state. Christ has not got His proper place, they are not affected nor bowed, and hence self seeks a place.
The great difference in principle between these two [p. 384] chapters is, that in chapter 2 the mind is in a world of evil, in chapter 3 it is in a world of good. In chapter 2 the way is downward, because a world of evil is in view; in chapter 3 the way is upward, because it is just the opposite, the thought reaching out into the scene of God’s calling, another scene altogether. The true course morally in a world of evil must be that of going down, for the more light you get the more you want to get away from all that is great and pretentious in this world, the mind conscious of what is proper to it.
Do you connect Ephesians with this? — Yes. Ephesians views the Christian abstractly, according to the work of God; Philippians practically, according to the course he is taking and the direction of his thoughts; Colossians is in intimate connection also, guarding against leaving that course. The three epistles were written together, and refer to the heavenly Man. The thoughts presented in chapters 2 and 3 must go together; for a man to go in the direction of chapter 3 the humbling of chapter 2 must accompany it; he is diminished in this scene, becomes less conspicuous, gets more out of sight as regards this world, if he takes the course marked out in chapter 3. It is the same principle, that “inside the veil” must go with “outside the camp”.
You think Paul the apostle was a smaller man than Saul of Tarsus? — Even as the Lord’s servant, he was less conspicuous at the end of his course than at the height of it; he was in prison. The Christian feels he wants to get out of sight. The apostle did not deviate from his course, his soul had risen — Christ Himself had risen, you might say, in his estimation; he “counted”, and he “counts”. “Whatever things were gain to me”. You could hardly specify what things.
“That I may gain Christ” (verse 8). I think Christ taught Paul something that he never knew before.
[p. 385] The Christian learns something in Christ he never knew before, and could learn nowhere else. He learns love. You never really learn personal love till you learn it in Christ; it was that which made Christ everything to Paul. All that tended to attach importance to Paul was loss, Christ loved Paul, but not any of his accessories, therefore whatever things came to Paul they were loss, in view of Christ. In the presence of Christ’s love everything else was eclipsed.
“The excellency of the knowledge”: this is personal, in a certain sense different from the thought of God’s love, which is not exactly personal, but a more general thought. I said the love of God is a general thought, because you cannot speak of it as of any particular Person. You could not say, God gave Himself for me.
I think Paul had in one way a different sense of things from the other apostles, because he had been a persecutor, which they (the twelve) had never been. Yet after all, no one could have had a greater sense of the love of Christ than John. John and Peter were simple men in this world, who had not much to lose, but Paul had a great deal that attached to him as a man which he had to lose. The others were Galilean fishermen, but Paul had things which gave him distinction both religious and worldly, and all that he had to lose. You become conscious that Christ loves you, but not any of your accessories, and you must be free in spirit from all these if you would enjoy His love to you. They are positive loss in view of Christ, you are better without them. The time must come when you will be stripped of them, and the sooner the better in your own sense of things. With all that Paul was and had as a natural man, he knew nothing about love; he was a self-righteous man, as hard as the nether millstone; he had no conception of love. I do not mean that he had not natural affections, but disinterested [p. 386] divine love he first learned in Christ. The beginning was: “Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?”
A man full of hatred could not know love? — No, the end to which we are brought in Ephesians is, to know the love of Christ; I suppose that means, you learn what you are to Christ. “The excellency of the knowledge” was what Paul had learned in Christ. The great lesson you have learned in Christ is love, personal love to yourself. “The love of the Christ constrains us”. The apostle could say, “In that I now live in flesh, I live by faith, the faith of the Son of God, who has loved me and given himself for me”; this was continual with the apostle.
It is not the love of God that constrains us? — It is not so said. God loved the world, love is the nature of God; but the love of Christ is the love of a Person. In Christianity, the Father is presented to us as God objectively, but if you speak of God as usually spoken of, the thought is of Godhead; what the Father is the Son is, and so too, the Spirit. The Father and the Son are one in one Spirit, so the Spirit is spoken of as the Spirit of the Father and the Spirit of the Son.
In Ephesians 3 we have the Spirit of the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; the Father loves personally? — Yes, a very important point; but then I think it is because you have loved the Son. You get reciprocal affections between the Father and the Son, and Christians come under the love with which the Son is loved. The general thought of divine love is expressed in: “the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared”; but you get too the love of Christ as the motive spring in Christians.
But to return to our chapter. Paul’s desire (verse 9) was to be divested of everything that distinguished himself. In regard of God, the first thing you want is righteousness, you are not and cannot be innocent. If a man’s mind has ever been privy to evil he never [p. 387] can be innocent. An infant is innocent in a certain sense until its mind becomes privy to evil, though, of course, will is there. I may not have committed evil, but if the mind is privy to it I am no longer innocent. Adam, after he fell, begat a son in his own likeness. Saul went in for righteousness after the flesh, he was not a careless man. But now the extraordinary thing is that he wants to be found in Christ completely divested of his own righteousness, he wants only the righteousness of God. God’s righteousness is in this, that He righteously clears a man; that is very different from works. Saul’s righteousness was in his works, such as they were.
Righteousness is viewed here as future, and in the day of public clearing it will be evident that no reproach attaches to Christians — a wonderful thing! The believer is righteous now before God; but we are speaking of what will be declared; it is not declared yet. Righteousness is by faith, and so is good for faith. But there will be a public declaration on the part of God that we are clear from every reproach. We are not justified in ourselves, but by faith. Christ is our righteousness; it is not clear to any eye but that of God that I am free from every reproach that attached to me in this world. Balaam’s prophecies give us a view of the elect of God, and they are plainly clear of every reproach: “He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel”. Moses had another story to tell. It is a great point to see that the Israel that came out of Egypt, was not figuratively the elect of God; the elect came to light after the brazen serpent.
Their ground was very much the ground on which Christendom is now? — Yes, a mixture of redemption and law. It is anomalous that though the Christian begins in his experience at Egypt, or the Red Sea, the brazen serpent also may be looked at as the starting point of his soul’s history.
[p. 388] I have heard it said the brazen serpent is not the beginning of the gospel. — No, it is not, I quite understand that, for it does not bring in the light of God in regard of man’s responsibility; but if God approaches man to fulfil His purpose, His way is through the brazen serpent. In the cross of Christ God has condemned man’s state in the flesh, and He gives the Spirit to be life in the believer. The death of Christ is all one, though there are various aspects of it, and if you believe in Christ’s death you are in the value of every aspect of it. The brazen serpent and what comes after it runs concurrent in Christian experience with the first part of Numbers. The Israelites are looked at in a different light from the point of the brazen serpent and onwards. It is no longer the generation that came out of Egypt, and that is why Balaam comes in to pronounce on them as the elect. How can you use the terms of Balaam’s prophecies except in connection with the elect of God?
In dealing with souls, would you begin with the brazen serpent, or on the ground of responsibility? — Well, I am not clever at that, but I daresay it is better to begin with responsibility. The statement in John 3: 16 is in connection with the accomplishment of the purpose of God’s love; it is the gift and purpose of His love that is in view, not the question of man’s necessity.
Does not the brazen serpent really mean that man as such will not do? — Yes; it witnesses that the flesh has to go, every bit of it; there must be a springing up of life in the power of the Spirit, and not a bit of the old allowed; the old condemned in the cross, and the Spirit working to bring about a new man where the old was.
“And be found in him”. What of Paul was left? — I should say, not a shred; nothing but love when found in Christ.
You are looking at it as future? — Yes. In the [p. 389] blessed Son of God there was the complete exposition before God of man’s position and state, and God’s judgment fell there; and now we have a new man, every feature of which is according to Christ. The Spirit is life. Righteousness comes as justification of life, for you are manifestly free from every reproach that attached to you. The fact of your being in life is proof and witness of your justification, and that consistently with the righteousness of God. Christ was made sin for that. Two most wonderful things have come out in the gospel — light and life — and I am sure they run together. Life in itself will not give a moral foundation in man; you must have light for that, the knowledge of God. It is not beneficial to people that they should be converted by, ‘Only believe, and you will have eternal life’. They get a flippant idea in regard of believing, and there is no moral foundation laid at all.
What is the thought of: “That I may know him”? — What you cannot get to the bottom of. You are to know the love of Christ, and yet it passes knowledge. Then the next thing is, “the power of his resurrection”. You begin with Himself, and then the power of His resurrection. Ephesians 1 shows us the power of God in the rescue of everything out of the state of death.
“The calling on high” (verse 14); this shews where the calling takes you to. In Ephesians, Christians are viewed abstractly according to the work of God in them; but in Philippians you are going on as a responsible man down here to that very point; the mind is completely in accord with God’s calling, but the work of God had already set me in heavenly places. It is a wonderful thing for the mind of the saints to be in complete accord with the work of God. The work in you and the work for you correspond, and that is the purpose of God.
Is it connected with working out our own salvation?
— [p. 390] No; that is more how you come out down here. This third chapter is not attainment, but realisation. If you apprehend a certain point or goal, you get morally nearer to that point, more conscious of being free from the influence of all here, stepping out, getting nearer to Christ. That is what the power of His resurrection does for you. The power of His resurrection is a great thought! the complete rescue of everything from sin and death; it goes on very far, even to the new heavens and the new earth, the reconciliation of all things. God works everything on the principle of resurrection. Israel will in principle be raised; they are buried in the dust of the earth, and will be in figure raised for earthly blessing. God allows everything to come out in the principle of resurrection.
“The fellowship of his sufferings”. No one could touch this who did not know the power of His resurrection. Man would naturally cling to life. “Skin for skin ... all that a man hath will he give for his life”, shows as plainly as possible that only the light of the resurrection of Christ can deliver a man and make him willing to accept death here. It was affection for Christ that made the apostle desire the fellowship of His sufferings. The nearer you get to Christ the happier you are. People do not understand the activity of Christ in attaching them to Himself, the pleasure He finds in doing it.
Would you speak of that as intercession? — Quite so. The moment intercession is spoken of in Romans the apostle speaks of the love of Christ. This shows that you are right in connecting priesthood with affection. The next clause is: “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?” People are too content with faith. I do not undervalue faith, God knows, but people may be too content, I think, with it; they do not make enough of love. Now the thing that Christ makes known to the Christian all along is love. He draws [p. 391] us to Himself by making us conscious of His love. The Ephesians were zealous as to doctrine, but they had got away from the sense of Christ’s love — that is how I understand the address to Ephesus. We do not know love at all till we have the Spirit. Faith was what characterised the Old Testament saints, but what characterises saints in the New Testament days is love: “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another”. So I think we are justified in saying, what ought to mark us is love. There is faith and hope, but love abides.
If we were more in faith we should know more of love. — I do not doubt it, for we should have more light as to God’s love. Love is linked with faith in 1 John 3: 23: “That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment”. This whole passage is exceedingly important, as showing that there is to be with the Christian purpose of heart. We might settle down and say, We can do nothing, all is the work of God in us. That is quite true, but the spirit and mind of the Christian can be engaged and may be in accord, and there is such a thing with him as purpose. A man is not much without purpose. So the apostle could say to Timothy, “Thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose”. So here, “One thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before”.
I suppose it is affection that keeps us in freshness? — Yes. The great thing is to see that Christ is at the end of the road you are going; you will not grow old in the wilderness if you do, but you will grow old if you do not take that line. If you are not going on with Christ the power of the thing that first brought you into the wilderness will fade in your soul — the knowledge of redemption, etc. You cannot live on the past, and in that sense you may grow old; on the other hand, if you see Christ at the end of the road [p. 392] you are travelling, you do not grow old. There is a danger of the freshness of things first known wearing off; you want to be on the living road so as to have the light of life, and that maintains us in freshness, even as regards the very things that are connected with the wilderness. “If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead” (verse 11). I think the apostle wanted to be fully identified with the path of Christ.
Is resurrection out from among the dead only as yet true of Christ Himself? — I do not know; unless also of those who came out of the graves after His resurrection. Once Christ was out of death, others could be; the resurrection of saints was a kind of sign to show the power of His resurrection.
Is the idea that the resurrection state was so glorious, that Paul was prepared to go through everything to reach it? — I think his great point was a Person, and to reach that Person by the same road He had taken. I should not like to say I would like the fellowship of His sufferings, for I do not know that I am prepared for it. The apostle had a very strong sense that he was not worthy to live here — that he had been a persecutor, and it was according to God that he himself should suffer. Martyrdom was a sort of retribution; he could never forgive himself for having persecuted the church of God.
Would the fellowship of His sufferings include death? — I think so. Paul was foremost; he was a man of like passions as ourselves, leading in the race to be like Christ, the mark set before him.
Is there any difference between the race here and in Hebrews 12? — I do not know. In Hebrews Christ is seen as gone up to the highest point, and believers are looked at as going on to where the Forerunner has entered. The apostle is putting himself forward in chapter 3 as a pattern. He says, “Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded”. There is the [p. 393] possibility of being on the line on which he was; the beginning of it is in being perfect.
What is it to be “perfect”? — I think it lies in the realisation of deliverance.
But there might be differences of apprehension? — Yes, deliverance may be known in measure, and yet not known in completeness; but the apostle wanted to bring the saints into his mind and way of looking at things.
Would “thus minded” refer to his pressing on? — I think so; those not in deliverance are not ready for that line. It is useless to speak wisdom except to them that are perfect. You cannot make much headway in unfolding the purpose of God to people who are detained in mind here. Accepting death with Christ, as in Romans 6, does not in itself involve “risen with him”. Living to God puts you outside of sin and its power, but “risen with Christ” (as in Colossians) puts you outside the religious world. If dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, and entering in any way into the truth of the assembly, you have the sense that nothing is of any avail in religious things except the Spirit of God, though there may be many things for the satisfaction of the flesh. Such things detain souls; people are greatly hindered by the tendency to conformity to all that is around. With many of those who meet with us on Sunday morning, their minds are in a great measure in concert with what is going on in the systems (save as to form); but if we understood things aright we should be in spirit in protest against it, for Christ is disallowed of men. The tendency with us is to mould our ways on what is around.
I think the function of the Holy Spirit is not much understood. It is thought that He has come to confer on us a certain sort of power. The office of the Holy Spirit is to connect us with Christ in heaven; the world cannot receive Him, but His presence and power [p. 394] have the effect of connecting our hearts with Christ in heaven. The Holy Spirit has not, as Christ, rights and titles as Man connected with the world; His function is to bear witness to Christ in heaven, and to set saints apart to Him. Christ had sanctified Himself, and the Holy Spirit has come down to give effect to that in the saints, and not simply to empower them for testimony on the earth. The Holy Spirit has no link with the earth; the Lord had His titles to it. He rode into Jerusalem to claim His inheritance. But the Holy Spirit has come down here consequent on the exaltation of Christ, to unite the saints to Him in heaven, and when the church goes the Holy Spirit goes.
Is this work of sanctification progressive? — I do not think so; He came to set apart for Christ.
Is every believer sanctified? — He forms part of what is sanctified, the sanctified company. Sanctification connects itself with the whole company set apart for Christ. Then it would be a question of how far it is realised in the soul. The sanctification existed the moment the Holy Spirit came. The Lord had prepared the company, and they were there ready for the Holy Spirit to come; and when the Spirit came the company was in the sanctification of the Spirit, set apart for Christ in heaven, and all that has taken place since is simply the extension of it.
With Israel the sanctification was national, now the sanctification is entirely of the Spirit, and only a spiritual person can take account of it; the world cannot understand it, but it is as real as the national sanctification of Israel, though unseen. “Through sanctification of the Spirit” (1 Peter 1) is characteristic; the Jews were accustomed to the idea of national sanctification.
Where do we find that the Holy Spirit departs with the company? — I do not see how the Holy Spirit could be here when the company is gone. A vessel is necessary to the presence of the Spirit, and when the [p. 395] vessel goes the Holy Spirit goes. You can understand the power and activity of the Holy Spirit, but not His presence apart from a vessel. The Spirit has not become incarnate; He has a vessel, and if a vessel is necessary to His presence, He goes with the vessel: it cannot be otherwise. Believers are the temple of the Holy Spirit. “In you” (John 14: 17) is the vessel, but “dwelleth with you” is in contrast to Christ, who left them. The Spirit dwells in saints, which Christ never did. It is as the Spirit that He comes, and not incarnate, and therefore would continue with them and be in them. There had been individual saints up to Pentecost, but not a company. In principle, the Lord’s sowing was past, and as to outward appearance very little had been effected, but in its bearing what He did was vast; the vessel was prepared for the coming of the Holy Spirit. The great end in view as regards man was for the Holy Spirit to come. Christ not only accomplished redemption, but He gathered in resurrection the vessel which He had prepared for the Holy Spirit, and the consequence was that in due time the Holy Spirit could come, and Christianity and all that has taken place since is the outcome of that.
What do you mean by ‘gathering the vessel’? — Gathering saints to Himself. “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him”. All this gathering was in view of the coming of the Holy Spirit; there was to be a vessel ready for the Holy Spirit when redemption was accomplished.
There was a work in them as well? — Undoubtedly there was. “Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you”. He had declared the Father’s name to them.
Is “perfect” in verse 12 the same as in verse 15? — In verse 12 the word is “perfected”, made perfect, in the sense of reaching the goal; that would be in resurrection — what the apostle sought to attain to — as is spoken of the Lord: “made perfect through sufferings”; “the third day I shall be perfected”. He was perfected for a new function. There is no such thing for us as being perfected while we are down here. The thought must be qualified in its application to Christ; it is “perfected” in regard to some office on which He enters, as High Priest at the right hand of God. The apostle could not pretend that he was perfected according to the counsels of God, and yet on the other hand you may, if “risen with Christ”, be perfect, free from the detaining power and bond of everything down here; that is what death and resurrection imply. The apostle says: “As many as be perfect”; he does not quite conclude that everybody is perfect.
Is it, as in Colossians, “present every man perfect in Christ”? — It is pretty much the same thought, only that there it is not only deliverance but condition, that is, in Christ; here it is simply “perfect”.
It is a great point for Christians to be apart in spirit from all that is around, recognising the false character of all professing to be Christian; in fact, all that is going on religiously after the flesh.
What would you say if God was really working in the conversion of souls outside? — God is sovereign. A man may have gift and God may use the gift; but He only makes manifest His own sovereignty in the state of things. There is plenty of gift, but what pains you is to see gift exercised by men who are very fleshly. There are a great many gospel preachers abroad whose methods and ways are all fleshly; you do not see much of the Spirit of God in that. The Corinthians were endowed with every gift, but they were carnal. I understand men being used of God according to their gift, but they do not faithfully represent Christ to their converts. I think, properly speaking, the first thing is for the preacher to put himself right, or the light is very much veiled in him. If the servants of [p. 397] the Lord are entangled by many things here, as they often are, that tends to veil the light, they do not bring the full light of God to people. What marks the bulk of Christians shows how little light they enjoy.
What is the force of “our conversation is in heaven”? — All our links are there; we belong to that country; it is not only the old links broken, but new ones formed.
What would characterise those who are enemies of the cross of Christ? — They are those whose practice is hostile to it; where the flesh is allowed and paraded the cross is denied. Such as are spoken of here are unconverted. You could not say of a real Christian, “whose end is destruction”. It is the end, not something by the way — “whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things” — that is the lowest point. It is a terrible degradation in a Christian to mind earthly things — politics, and that kind of thing. There are certain relationships and duties in the world in which the Lord is sanctified; I would not call them “earthly things”.
Do you think a man who reads the newspaper is delivered? — Of course there may be circumstances which render it needful for a man to do so, but one who for pleasure reads the paper habitually is hardly delivered.
Why do you speak of the newspaper especially? — Because it gives you the politics and things of earth, and the habitual reading of it makes pretty evident where people are. “Our conversation is in heaven”, is in contrast with earthly things. People fail to see that the Lord Jesus Christ is the centre of an entirely new system and order of things, another world, the power of which is in resurrection. The world which is to be set up in this power under Christ, is as great a contrast to the existing world as can be; resurrection expresses the complete triumph of God over death and Satan’s power — it is His glory. Nor is that triumph except [p. 398] in resurrection — the Lord Jesus is the centre, and the Holy Spirit the power of that world. Our citizenship is in heaven, for all that we look for is centred in the Lord and not yet displayed. Whoever gets hold of this can say, One thing I do. Our commonwealth is the other side of death: the expression, “Death is swallowed up in victory”, refers to what is millennial rather than to what is eternal. Resurrection is the power in which God is working, and the present effect in regard of us is that we are said to be risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God that raised Him.
That puts us in touch with that bright and blessed scene where He is, you know the power of God that has raised Him from the dead.
The “end” of those whose course Paul deprecates is in contrast with Paul’s end. One was up, the other was down. Christ comes to change our bodies according to the power whereby He is able to subdue all things to Himself. He acts, as to our bodies, according to that power; we enjoy the first touch of the wave of that power which will pass over all. What has struck me in Philippians is the intensely moral character and force of what it presents; we have not a mere statement of events and facts. What is said here as to Christ, involves that everything is subjected to Him.
Do you mean that it is necessarily so? — Yes; for if a divine Person becomes Man, He must, in the very nature of things, be the centre and head of all that is of God.
“Mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample”. I do not believe one person is competent to exhort another unless he can say, I want you to go on as I do. I cannot exhort another to do what I have not done myself; it makes me slow at exhortation, for the question comes up directly, Have I travelled that road myself? It is well to expound [p. 399] Scripture, but there, too, the question arises, How much do you yourself know about it? I think that is what the apostle meant when he said, “Thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life”, etc.
What is the force of “stand fast in the Lord”? — That the soul may be kept in the light of the Lord. But if so, you are morally apart from all here, for all here is a denial of the Lord; the world does not take account of Him.
What account do politics take of the Lord, though they may use His name! — He is not a factor in things down here. God may be acknowledged in these things, but not Christ — they present the actings of men. But when Christ rises from the Father’s throne, everything is changed. This thought keeps you in the light of that day. Everything here is so poor to the Christian who has the apprehension of what the Lord will introduce into this scene. He sets aside what is contrary to God, and introduces what is according to Him.
Have you said that lordship is only connected with the earth? — I think what was said was, We shall not know Him as Lord in heaven. Every one confesses Him as Lord, but we shall know Him in another way. ‘Lord’ is a title connected with the kingdom; but He gives the kingdom up, and is Himself subject. In chapter 2 we have had the necessity of coming down, in connection with the scene of evil here. Chapter 3 is a different thing, the Christian in purpose and aim really entering into the scene above. We could scarcely have a greater contrast. In chapter 2 we see even Christ humbling Himself. A man must be content to come down here. If a man stands on his rights he does not go down; but in Christ there was the most complete surrender, in going down, of all that belonged to Him as Man. In chapter 3 we have the apprehension of a scene above in which, according to the counsels of God, we have a place; and then it [p. 400] is all going up. Chapter 4 brings in complete superiority to circumstances. “I have learnt in those circumstances in which I am, to be satisfied in myself”. I am not callous, but not mastered by circumstances.
Is chapter 4: 1 the closing up of chapter 3? — Yes. I think you must stand in the Lord. The Holy Spirit has come down to witness to the glory of Christ, and it is a great thing to stand fast in the sense of His mighty power; we shall not get free of the world if we do not. I believe the glory of God is His complete triumph over evil, and resurrection is the great expression of it, and it is according to that power that Christ works. What is the power of this world in the face of Christ’s resurrection? The power of this world tends to death. Faith only wants one Man risen; that is enough for it. Man’s power is exercised in destruction, or preparing for it. God has set forth His power in the resurrection of Christ. If one Man is risen, everything is involved in that. The one crucial test in Christianity is the fact of the resurrection of Christ. The principle of God’s victory is established; the whole fabric of Christianity hangs upon it; it stands or falls with the resurrection of Christ. What I fear is the acceptance of resurrection as an article of a creed without the power of it being known in the soul. People outside of ourselves do not take much account of resurrection. It is a more common idea that souls go to heaven; the thought is that when people die they go to glory. It is all a loose sort of idea. The fact is, if you have not clearly before you the resurrection of Christ, you do not see the glory of God, for He hangs everything on it. The Lord said to Martha, in view of the resurrection of Lazarus: “Said I not unto thee, that if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?” A point about Lazarus is, that it was the raising of one who had a spiritual link with Christ; it was not merely a display of power. I am certain that resurrection is [p. 401] the test, the crucial point; all depends on the fact of resurrection, for if there is no resurrection there is no redemption, no Son of God.
Man’s mind can take cognisance of death, but not of resurrection; it is beyond the scope and experience of his mind. Man knows nothing beyond death; these things are only known spiritually through revelation. Salvation, everything, depends upon resurrection, and all fails if resurrection is not true. Once God brought the judgment of death upon man, nothing could set that judgment aside. God could not ignore His own judgment, and consequently if God was to do anything for man, the only outlet was the transfer to Another of that judgment, in such wise as to bring in resurrection. The Son of God, who created all things, goes into death. He could not be holden of it; He must come out of it. “By man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead”. That which will overturn the great system of the world will be the resurrection of Israel. There are two great systems, one in connection with the Gentile and the other with Israel. When Israel revives, the Gentile system goes, it crumbles to dust. I believe God will weaken it by death, pestilence, famine and the like, but the real overturning of everything here is the resurrection of Israel.