JOHN 8
FER I think that down to the end of chapter 6 the prominent thought has been life. Then in chapters 8 and 9 the great thought is light — the light [p. 136] came to the Jews and they were tested by it. Chapter 7 is the point of transition, and brings in the truth of the Spirit, and the day of the Spirit, in order to pave the way to chapter 10, only I think that first the Jew had to be tested by the light.
Rem But they “loved darkness rather than light”.
FER Yes. It is the state of the Jews completely tested by the light; you get the expression in this chapter, and also in the next, “I am the light of the world”. The effect of the light is to make manifest, and the state of the Jew is made manifest by the light, both in this chapter and the succeeding one.
In the introduction to this chapter you get Christ doing what even the law could not do. There is the case of the woman brought before the Lord, and in the presence of the light her accusers are convicted by their consciences, and go out, one by one. There was no bowing to the light on their part, but, any way, they are convicted by it. They could have executed the law, as far as the woman was concerned, but they are themselves convicted by their consciences and go out. The fact is, if you were to be really in the light of the presence of God you could not execute the law.
Rem The Lord Himself would not condemn.
FER The law was the system under which the people were placed, and they had to feel the edge of it, and the light was here in the way of testimony, but not to judge. The light was the light of God, and by the very fact that it was light it was bound to expose all that was contrary to it, but it was not here to judge.
I think, you know, they thought of Christ merely as a man — no more than a man — while the fact was they were standing in the presence of the full revelation of God, of the One in whom “all the fulness was pleased to dwell”. That was the folly into which the Jews had fallen, they judged the Lord by the standard of men.
Rem As He says in verse 14, “Ye cannot tell [p. 137] whence I come, and whither I go”. They neither knew His origin nor whence He came.
FER No. He was immeasurable. He really had no origin, He filled all things. Nothing could have been greater folly than to attempt to judge of Christ by any human standard. They might have felt that from His words at the beginning of the chapter, “I am the light of the world”, but instead of this they say, “Thou bearest witness concerning thyself; thy witness is not true”. They were judging after the standard of the flesh. Imagine applying the standard and judgment of man to the “fulness of the Godhead”! I do not think you could possibly understand the chapter except as you see that they were in the presence of the “fulness of the Godhead”. He says in verse 18, “The Father that sent me beareth witness of me”, “my judgment is just” — is true — “because I am not alone, but I and the Father who has sent me”; that is, that if He judged at all — “I judge no one” — it would be according to the full truth of God. The Lord did not judge independently, or in reference to Himself, but according to the full truth of God.
Rem You mean moral judgment, of course, for He judged no one.
FER Yes, quite so. The light was not here in the way of judgment, but of testimony, and if God sees fit to give a testimony to man as to what He is, and of what He wills, it must be in pure grace.
Rem The life of Christ here consisted in making God known.
FER Yes, I think so. The life was the full expression of God, and this must be in pure grace. He might set up a throne of judgment, and the light would be there, but that would be in the way of judgment. The light coming into the world in the way it did is of pure grace.
Ques I suppose that every testimony of God is on [p. 138] that line?
FER Yes. Even the very last testimony comes in that way, “Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come” (Revelation 14: 7); that is, that man might escape the judgment.
The great principle that underlies John is that the fulness of the Godhead was presented to man in Christ, and the second principle comes out in chapter 5. “The Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will”. “For what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise”.
Ques What do you understand by, “If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death”?
FER Oh, that is moral — a man passes out of death into life.
Rem It has been applied to death actually — that a man never sees death at the moment of death.
FER I understand it to mean that the believer passes out of the region of death morally. I think that is the way the Jews understood the Lord’s words. They use the expression “taste of death”. “Tasting death” gives the moral idea, a man tastes the bitterness of death.
Rem But then the Jews seem to go on to speak of the prophets and Abraham.
FER Yes. But I was thinking of the way in which they understood His words.
Rem I had always thought that it was on the same line as “passed out of death into life”.
FER Yes, I think it is. I believe you must take what comes out in this chapter with that which is presented in the preceding ones. The Jews say to Him here, “Where is thy Father?” (verse 19). “Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also”. You cannot understand this apart from what the Lord had presented in chapter 5. What He had brought to light was the full grace of God, and this without any obstruction on His own part. There was no obstruction of sin or anything else on Christ’s part, as there always is on ours. Now the truth that comes out in chapter 5 is that the Father raises up and quickens the dead. People do not rightly estimate that, but it is the only thing that is to be done with man. You see, if a man is in a state of death, there is nothing to be done with him but to quicken him.
Rem So He raises up the dead to life, that is, in its moral sense.
FER Yes. I am sure you cannot understand what comes out here if you do not understand the presentation of life in chapter 5.
Rem He was the true “candle” of the Father.
Rem “Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning”.
FER Yes, quite so. He was the real, true expression of what He spoke.
I think this is a most important chapter; because you could not have the “one flock”, or the “one shepherd”, as in chapter 10, except as the Jew had been exposed, and it is for this reason that you get full exposure and conviction brought to the Jew, as in the beginning of this chapter.
Rem And their exposure cleared the ground.
FER Yes; the Jews all had to go. He alone could say, “He that is without sin among you” — for there was no sin in Him. But then that was not all the truth. He had fully presented the Father, and He worked in perfect accord with the Father. “My Father worketh hitherto, and I work”, and as the Father raised up the dead, so He did.
Rem The man in chapter 9 gets eyesight.
FER Yes, and they turn him out. There is a great difference between the other gospels and the gospel [p. 140] of John. In the other gospels you get the testimony: “the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised”, and so on. You see goodness in the midst of Israel, relieving men of the effects of sin, and so on, but the simple thing you get in John is, “The Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth”.
Rem It goes to the very root of it all.
FER Yes; and it takes up that which alone could meet the case. Now it would be a very good thing indeed for me, if I were blind, that I should see, or if I were lame, that I should be made to walk, but, after all, the root of the matter would not be touched. And so, even the forgiveness of sins, important as it is, in a sense only comes in incidentally. The man who is quickened to a new life does not live as before. The whole position is totally changed.
Now here you get the Jews saying to Him, “Where is thy Father?” — the most cold-blooded thing you can imagine! To me it is such a profound thing that One was here by whom the Father was perfectly expressed to man, without anything at all to hinder or obstruct the expression of it, and yet practically no impression was produced.
Ques Is that why He said, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father”?
FER Exactly. Here He has to say, “Ye neither know me, nor my Father”, and you see how they were all held back, poor wretched men, without any judgement at all; they could not lay a finger upon Him, and yet they are not a bit subdued. Nothing could have been more manifest than their insensibility morally, and yet they are not a bit subdued by it. Every word He said only raised fresh difficulties.
Later on He says to them, “Whither I go, ye cannot come”. They say, “Will he kill himself?” to which He replies, “I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins”. Where did He go?
[p. 141] It was where they were not morally able to follow. The Father was present in Him, and yet, at the same time, He retired to the Father — He goes back to Him — and where He went they were morally unable to come. You could not possibly bring sins to the Father. The fact is, He might come in grace to sinful man, but it is not sinful man who goes to the Father.
Ques What is the force of “shall die in your sins”?
FER It is the totality of it — the climax of all.
Ques It is really only as Christ is formed in us that we touch the Father, is it not?
FER Yes. It is only in love that you touch the Father. A sinful man, as such, does not touch the Father, because touching the Father involves the calling, and that is sons. Sinful man, as such, has no place there.
Ques And therefore it is necessary that the Father should quicken?
FER Yes. The Father’s love could only be known by the quickening of the Father.
Ques How does “The Son quickeneth whom he will” come in?
FER Well, that takes in the whole thing, as I understand it. When the time comes for a public work, then I think the Son quickens whom He will. It contemplates the complete thing, not merely that which is moral or spiritual. It includes the quickening of the body. I always connect it with, “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming”. Of course, that verse you quote has a present application, for the Lord immediately goes on to that; but still I think the “quickeneth whom he will” goes on to the quickening of the body.
Rem It is not until then that a man is really free.
FER Quite so.
Ques “Ye are from beneath” (verse 23), what is that?
FER It is all moral; He was from above, they were from beneath.
Ques Like “The first man is of the earth, earthy”?
FER Well, no, that is a little more definite. It is more like “The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath”. You must not make “above” and “beneath” to convey the sense of place. As a matter of fact, Satan is not “beneath” yet. I think these Jews understood it perfectly.
I do not think anything affords a more terrible exhibition of man — of every one of us — than the total inability of man to appreciate divine goodness. I feel it in myself. For instance, there is many a man of the world who would be very well content with a fortune, but, after all, what is the good of that? He may have it for a few years, but then he must leave it. Now the way God comes out is that He quickens; He makes man alive that he may enjoy His love for ever. If I had a fortune, I should not care to take it to heaven with me.
Ques Is that the idea of the Son making you free?
FER Yes; delivering a man from every hindrance, so that he may have the liberty of the house. It is impossible for a man to be in a greater light than Christ was, and He was in the full light of the Father’s love. “The light” is God revealed as Father.
Rem We have been used to contrast light and love.
FER Yes. But it is the greatest mistake. What is that light which exposes? It is the full revelation of God. God reveals the very best thing, that is, His love, and it is that which exposes man.
Rem You see that very best thing revealed to Saul of Tarsus, “a light above the brightness of the sun”.
FER [p. 143] Yes. But he was subdued by it. These Jews were not subdued by it, and there are Christians who are not subdued by it. I see people going on, and yet they make no progress. It is not that I want to un-Christianise them, but I see that they stagnate.
Rem I suppose that before the church departed from its first love their position was perfectly evident, but nowadays many people get converted, and they never know what it is.
FER No, never. You see, the church was the vessel of the testimony, and not the evangelist; but when the church lost its place of testimony, then the gospel was very greatly affected. Then they got into the idea, pretty much as it is at the present day, that it was the glad tidings of the grace, but really it is the glad tidings of the glory. Many a man has become a saved man, but he has not reached the glad tidings of the glory, which is what God wants him to have. Nothing else will greatly affect him. Man enjoys grace, but the sense of it may become dim. The right way to really get into it is to get into the light of the glory, and then you will have a still greater sense of the grace.
Rem Not only to be detached but attached.
FER Yes. It is the glad tidings of the glory that attaches a man to God.
Ques What do you understand by the “glory”?
FER It is the moral effulgence of God that shines out in the gospel; not simply that you have salvation for man, but every attribute of God displayed. I think the point just raised is of the last moment — that is, the effect of the failure of the church on the gospel itself. The church was really set here to be the vessel of the testimony, and it is as evident as possible that people take their idea of Christianity from the company in which they got converted, such as the Church of England, for instance, or any of the other systems. If a man is converted among us, he will, in like manner,
[p. 144] form his idea of Christianity, to a large extent, from us — and he will not get much from it. What I feel is this — and another has urged it — that there are two things which are very poorly known among us: deliverance and the divine nature.
Ques Do you think that a man would take his ideas more from the one used in his conversion?
FER Well, I think you will find he will take his ideas very much more from what he is brought into contact with — it is that which will principally mould him. He is greatly affected by the preacher, no doubt, but, in their own thoughts, you will find people connect the preacher with some “Body”. The likelihood is that a convert will ask the preacher where he belongs.
Ques What is the antidote for these things?
FER Well, the only remedy, as I see it, is that we should be in deliverance, and walk in the light of the divine nature. At the same time, I think it is a very great thing to present the glad tidings of the glory.
Rem A person is ready to be affected by the preacher.
FER Yes, he is. But the fact is, you cannot see the thing really in practice except in a company. We have not “increased” as we should. We have increased in light, but I should be afraid to say much as to our increase in other ways — I mean the “increase of God” in the divine nature and the enjoyment of deliverance and unworldliness.
Ques What is really meant by “the divine nature”?
FER Well, the divine nature is love; that is the one word which expresses it.
Rem My thought as to the remedy was that one should give oneself more to the study of God’s word.
FER Well, I do not know, but I would rather set more on prayer, if I might say so. With regard to the study of the word, you cannot understand the word apart from the state to understand it. In Ephesians 1 [p. 145] the apostle prays that God might give them the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of their heart being enlightened, that they might know — it is divine power to give you the state that you may know. And then in chapter 3 it is “Strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all saints”, etc. You could not get at it simply by the study of Scripture, but you have to bow to God, and to look to Him that He may give you the spirit of wisdom. I was an ardent student of Scripture at one time, but I do not think I got things in that way — not that I have much any way at all.
Ques But has not your study of Scripture been very useful to you?
FER Well, yes, because, after all, it is a very great thing for a man to be set upon something — for many Christians seem to be so dreadfully wanting in purpose, so earthly in their ways, and all that kind of thing. But then you want more than that, you want purpose; and when a man is a diligent student of Scripture, and God sees that man as a man of purpose, God comes in to give him state, in order that he may be able to enter into things.
Rem He needs divine preparation to understand the things of God.
FER Yes. You must first get the state from God to receive them. I think you get it by bowing yourself in the presence of God, to get, by His favour, the state by which you can understand His mind.
Ques When was verse 28 accomplished: “When ye have lifted up the Son of man”?
FER I think it must have come home to them very specially in the testimony of Stephen. His testimony was to the exaltation of Christ; it was not to His lifting up on the cross, but the testimony of His glory; and the testimony was undeniable. There was [p. 146] the gift of the Holy Spirit, and then the overwhelming testimony of Stephen. They knew, I believe, that Christ was what He said He was.
Rem But this refers to the lifting up on the cross.
FER Yes. I was thinking of the other point, “When ye shall have lifted up”, etc., “then shall ye know”.
Rem Stephen speaks of their refusal as wilful sin.
FER Yes.
Ques Is there any moral force in His being “lifted up”?
FER It is always so in John. It was a demonstration, it was putting Christ into the place of demonstration, into the place where it could be demonstrated what the true place of man was. They made a spectacle of Him; put Him into the place of curse and judgment — man’s own proper place; but the crowning act of wickedness became the crowning act of blessing for man.