MINISTRY AS IN THE ASSEMBLY AND IN THE GOSPEL
[p. 556] MINISTRY AS IN THE ASSEMBLY AND IN THE GOSPEL
Colossians 1:23 - 28; Acts 1:15,16; Acts 2:14; Acts 8:4; Acts 11:19 - 21
JT I desire to call attention to the well-known fact that there are two ministries, and that Acts 1 points to how ministry is carried on in the assembly, and Acts 2 as to how it is carried on in the testimony of the gospel. Then the other scriptures, to which indeed several might be added, point to the variety of ways in which the service of God is carried on in what may be called an unofficial way and yet blessed of God, that is, in those who were scattered through persecution. I thought that we might have before us this great subject and that we might see that these principles are applicable now.
DLH Would you mind opening it up a little more?
JT In Acts 1 we have the general facts governing the assembly as the Holy Spirit came down to it.
At the end of Luke it is said that the Lord led the disciples out as far as to Bethany, and that He was parted from them and carried up into heaven. This appears to give a provisional position; He led them so far; it is a provisional position that they might be available for testimony in Jerusalem as being near to it, but in this chapter He does not lead them at all; there is nothing said about His leading. What is said relates to what He did during the forty days, ending with certain instructions. First it says, “Being assembled with them” (Acts 1:4); secondly, they came together and made inquiry from Him and He answered their inquiries, but went further than their questions; and then it says, “When he had spoken these things he was taken up, they beholding him, and a cloud received him out of their sight” Acts 1:9. Note it is in connection [p. 557] with their coming together to ask (that is, it is not a remnant position, it looks toward the assembly — persons who were desiring to know) that it says, having spoken these things, He was taken from them and a cloud received Him out of their sight. The passage conveys that whilst He was amongst them they were being furnished, and then He is received out of their sight. There is thus the beginning of the faith period; He is not any longer to be seen, He is out of their sight, so that what follows is what they do as in the faith period.
Then it will be observed that they returned from the mount of Olives. It does not say He went up from the mount of Olives, for here He went up in relation to their questions, after what He said to them, but it says they returned from the mount of Olives to Jerusalem, and being in the city they went to the upper room. These facts looked towards the assembly.
And then we have the composition of the company, and the number of the names, and in the midst of these Peter rises up. It says that he stood up in the midst of the brethren “in those days”, meaning that it was before the Spirit came, and after the Lord had been taken up.
FN Are “those days” the faith period, or do you mean a longer period extending to the present?
JT I think His being received out of their sight covers the whole dispensation. We are in the faith period, and what we do in it indicates how much we have learnt.
DLH Would that correspond at all with the position of things in Colossians? You get the thought there of the life being hid with Christ in God.
JT I am sure that is right.
DLH I suppose Colossians corresponds with the forty days during which the Lord was present with [p. 558] the disciples.
JT I believe it does, but the ten days that follow have a peculiar place, emphasising the faith period. I suppose it would have been about ten days previously to Pentecost that He was received out of their sight and they were left alone, and it was in those days that Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren.
PL He refers to it later on in this chapter of the Acts, “until the day in which he was taken up from us” Acts 1:22.
JT Just so. The taking part of the ministry and apostleship by Matthias would come in after that, his education had been during that period — from the baptism of John till the day Christ was received up. I think the responsibility of those whom the Lord left here to be His witnesses begins peculiarly as He was taken up and received out of their sight. The test is what we do in “those days”.
JH Is witness connected only with the service of the glad tidings — the gospel?
JT Stephen is a witness. Witness is to Him. You will observe He says to them, “ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth” (Acts 1:8); witness is to Him. Have you something more in your mind?
JH I wondered if witness was only connected with the former line of things or with both.
JT I think witness would stand more connected with the public testimony they would render, but that is not necessarily limited to the gospel, because they were witnesses to Him. In Luke 24 He speaks about witness; He says, “Ye are witnesses of these things” (Luke 24:48), meaning repentance and remission of sins among all nations; that would be more the gospel. But when He says, “Ye shall be my witnesses” (Acts 1:8), it would be a fuller thought.
DLH Do I understand rightly that your [p. 559] thought is that the ten days that are in question here represent a faith period in which we are now?
JT That is what I thought. He was received out of their sight; so that the present period is definitely called “God’s dispensation which is in faith” 1 Timothy 1:4.
PL Is it a little like the priest disappearing within the old order? It was a question of faith on the part of the people.
JT Yes. Aaron and his sons, as consecrated, remain in the tabernacle for seven days — that is a complete period, the church period, I suppose; then, in Leviticus 9, Moses and Aaron go in and come out; the going in involves the time of faith, the coming out typifies the time when things will be on the principle of sight. Here (Acts 1) it is the antitype of the king and the priest going in; while He remains in heaven we have the time of the assembly, the time of faith; when He comes out (as Moses and Aaron came out) Israel’s period will begin; it will be on the principle of sight.
PL Would the bell and the pomegranate answer to these two testimonies — that of the gospel and of the assembly, the bell being connected with the gospel?
JT Yes, I think that is right — the bell the sound of the testimony, and the pomegranate the fruit, seen in the unity of love among the saints.
PL So, as to the gospel, we read of Peter standing up with the eleven and lifting up his voice; would that be the bell?
JT Yes. In chapter 1 he stands up in the midst of the brethren and speaks; the assembly is the temple of God; men speak there as the “oracles of God” (1 Peter 4:11). Peter addresses the brethren and he calls attention to Scripture and to the fact that the Holy Spirit had spoken it, and the importance of the fulfilment of it; a most remarkable beginning of [p. 560] ministry in the assembly — to be concerned about the Scriptures being fulfilled. Now that the Lord is received “out of their sight” (Acts 1:9), they are concerned about the Scriptures, what is written in them, and their fulfilment. We have not only to be exercised that Scripture should support us in what we are doing, but we have to be concerned also about its fulfilment; it was not written for nothing, and it should never be a dead letter; we want, therefore, to see how it is fulfilled. So Peter says in this passage, “It was necessary that the scripture should have been fulfilled”. The question rarely arises as to whether a scripture has been fulfilled. We get in the gospels the same principle — that certain scriptures must be fulfilled, and then again, that certain scriptures support certain things that are occurring either partially or wholly; but we must be careful in that regard whether a scripture is wholly fulfilled or only partially so.
PL It is an encouragement to see that the greatest sorrow amongst them, the sin of Judas, should be an occasion for the fulfilment of Scripture; I was thinking of sorrow arising from time to time amongst us.
JT “Brethren, it was necessary that the scripture should have been fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before, by the mouth of David, concerning Judas”. This is a very important thing. It is a great sorrow that any one should fall away, but then the scripture must be fulfilled. Then we get that the persons Peter addressed were distinguished persons: “The crowd of names” is immediately introduced as Peter stands up to speak. You have to take into account the persons to whom you are speaking; they are not ordinary persons. You have in mind, when you are addressing the Lord’s people, that they are not ordinary people.
“The crowd of names” — the thought which underlies that is the temple. These are the people in whom God has wrought, each having his own distinction,
[p. 561] for that is the idea in a name, I suppose. Each one of the hundred and twenty had his own distinction.
PL “God is greatly to be feared in the council of the saints” Psalm 89:7. Is that the suggestion?
JT Yes, and “I have said, Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High” Psalm 82:6.
DLH It is a very great thing to take account of God’s people as such, and as brethren.
Ques Would it be like the way in which the apostle speaks in Corinthians, “I speak as to intelligent persons” 1 Corinthians 10:15?
JT That is the idea, I think. It underlies the thought of the temple; what is said by the Spirit is supported by those who are present.
PL Would Peter have the Lord’s message to Mary in mind — “My brethren” John 20:17?
JT I think he would. The assembly is in view in what is presented in this passage.
PL He is standing up “in the midst” of them; he is not in the midst of those he addresses in chapter 2 in relation to the gospel. Does “in the midst” suggest that he is one with them?
JT I think so. It would look as if chapter 2 was in the open-air, and it seems to me a good warrant for open-air preaching at all times; for the Spirit says, according to this version that Peter “lifted up his voice and spoke forth to them”, and he addresses them, “Men of Judaea, and all ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, let this be known to you”. It is no longer in the midst of any company; he is standing up as commissioned to preach, with eleven men who were also commissioned to preach; it is a different position altogether.
PL It is a wonderful help in ministry to stand up with the brethren in that atmosphere.
JT There the distinction is marked — a hundred and twenty persons each with his own distinction. A very different matter from standing up with eleven [p. 562] of your brethren, and lifting up your voice and addressing the audience as “Men of Judaea, and all ye inhabitants of Jerusalem”.
Ques Is this sequence in which things must be taken up to be effective for the Lord?
JT Yes; the assembly first. But a further thing to be noted is, that whilst in chapter 2 Peter stood up with the eleven, in chapter 11 you have persons, scattered by persecution, preaching — that is the next thing. There is no question of commission or gift, these are not mentioned; it is persons who are persecuted for the Lord’s sake preaching.
DLH I suppose in a special way the twelve — Peter with the eleven — were witnesses as perhaps no others were. I was thinking of the word in John’s gospel, “Ye too bear witness, because ye are with me from the beginning” John 15:27. It appears they had a very special position in that way as witnesses which others would hardly have had.
JT Yes. Then they were not only witnesses, but, in this position, preachers. “He appointed”, it says, “twelve that they might be with him, and that he might send them to preach” Mark 3:14.
PL Could one liken the conversation and inquiry of the disciples during the forty days that they were with the Lord to the inner shrine of the tabernacle? and then are they more in the holy place where Peter stands up with the brethren, and in the next chapter, does he go to the outer court, as it were?
J . T. Yes, I think so. The question comes up as to the ground on which preaching is. The gospels, taken in conjunction with chapter 2 of the Acts, show that the gift is based on commission from Christ, but when it comes to the persons who are designated as commissioned not being available, as at the present time, how is the preaching to go on? I think chapters 8 and 9 help us. The preaching goes on by persons scattered through persecution.
[p. 563] There is nothing said about their being called to it or qualified for it, but they did it.
FN Is that in any way connected specially with the period of faith? You spoke of the period of faith beginning when the Lord was received out of their sight.
JT Yes, that has been dwelt on; He was received out of their sight and they returned from the mount of Olives, that is the starting point — it was a sabbath day’s journey from Jerusalem.
FN We are not to look on this position of faith as a position of weakness.
JT Not at all. The two things go together. They go back to the city from the mount of Olives, and then we have the distance; they go to the upper room, that is to say, it is a faith period in which the Spirit is recognised and in which obscurity is accepted — it is elevation in obscurity. The temple would represent the sight period. The disciples had called attention to its greatness, but the Lord said that not a stone in it would be left on another.
FN Do you connect persecution with the period of faith?
JT Yes. But it is well to see the start — beginning with the mount of Olives and the deliberate going to the upper room. They could have said a great deal in a public way, but they did not do so at first; they went to the upper room, and you have Peter’s address in the midst of the brethren — that is how things stand.
FWJ And does not verse 13 give us assembly material?
JT Yes. The names would point to the spiritual distinction that each person in the assembly has. It is a poor thing if I am in the assembly without any spiritual distinction. I doubt if anyone is of much value in it if he has not some spiritual distinction.
Ques Would preaching the ‘word’ be the same thing as preaching the gospel? Timothy is exhorted to preach the word.
JT I think the word is general; we read of the glad tidings of the word; Acts 8:4.
Rem It says of Philip that he preached the Christ.
JT Yes, and that brings us to the point we wish to reach. Those scattered went and preached, it says, but we have one man specially distinguished, and the Holy Spirit lights on him and goes through with him, so that we may see how in what we may call promiscuous preaching, gift may be developed. The Spirit dwells on one man — Philip — and what he does. He went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ unto them; that is, Philip would convey to his hearers the fact that he is not doing the work, it is “the Christ” (Acts 8:5), and He is the One who effects everything. He preached the Christ unto them; his hearers would understand that God was doing something, and that He had a Man by whom He was doing it, and to confirm that, you have miracles effected by Philip; it is a question of evidence that God is doing something. The preaching is of no value unless God is doing something, and that He has a Man by whom He can do things. That man is not Philip, it is Christ, and that is the impression you would have got from Philip, if you had heard him preach.
Ques Would you connect the power of God definitely with gift?
JT Quite. How does Philip’s gift come out? Not in the way he was taken up, like Peter and John, but in the way he qualified in his work. At the present time there is so much need for service of this kind, but how can we know brethren have gift until they begin to [p. 565] preach?
PL So later he is called “the evangelist” Acts 21:8.
JT Yes, the only one who is, showing that a man qualifies for his position by his work in the service of God. So it says that an angel of the Lord spoke to him. If a brother starts out to preach, it will soon become evident whether or not he has gift. If he has not, he cannot expect the saints to lay their hands on him; but if he has, the saints will soon do so. An angel spoke to Philip, not the Holy Spirit; he is not yet as honoured as others are — it is providential. He directs him to go to a district (today it may be through one’s business, or something like that) and he finds himself in a position — in a desert — where there is nothing for the flesh. Being in that position, the Holy Spirit owns him — “the Spirit said to” (Acts 8:29) him. The Holy Spirit does not even come on the saints at Samaria in connection with his preaching, for God deals wisely with His servants, and does not give them too much honour. He was full of the Holy Spirit in serving the saints as a deacon, but this is not said of him as a preacher.
PL So you have the greatest power where it is a case of bringing blessing to one man.
JT Yes. The Holy Spirit comes in at Samaria through the apostles from Jerusalem.
DLH Was there not a special reason for that? Samaria had been in some sense a rival of Jerusalem, and God would not allow that. Jerusalem was the centre from which He was working at that time.
JT Yes, that is important; but the other, I am sure, is right too. Philip was not governed by any national or local feeling; he went down to Samaria and preached the Christ. The Holy Spirit does not link Himself with the work in connection with Philip till the eunuch comes by, and there is nothing very much in that, for he is, as we say, a coloured man.
PL Is this a little like Elisha’s history at [p. 566] the beginning — laid hold of, but not definitely identified by the Spirit, typically? Elijah’s mantle and power came later. You were speaking of a young brother learning to serve and the Lord standing by him.
JT It is well to follow that up, for the need is so great and we can never tell who has ability till they preach. You say, ‘I am not asked to preach’, but Philip was not asked to. As far as we know no one had asked him to preach; we can scarcely assume that the Samaritans sent for him. It is a question of what you will do. The Holy Spirit does not connect Himself with Philip’s preaching till the eunuch comes down; then the Spirit says, “Approach and join this chariot” Acts 8:29.
ASL If any one starts out in the Lord’s service, there has to be a definite work of God in his own soul. Philip goes down in his own faith; he is not backed by any society. This wonderful work was going on in Samaria, and he is told to leave it all; he seems to be a model servant in this respect, as in others also, in that he rose and went — he was at the disposal of his Master.
JT Yes, and it is under the providence of God — by an angel — but as soon as he is down there — at Gaza, which is desert — the Holy Spirit says, “Join this chariot” (Acts 8:29), and he does his work so well that the eunuch went on his way rejoicing, and Philip is caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, that is, there is an increased recognition of the man by the Spirit. Then he goes down and preaches as far as Caesarea. The point is, he is not owned specially in an official way. What is seen thus in Philip is of great importance at the present time for young men, I believe, for the need is great and the field is wide, and there is no need that anyone should invite you to preach; it is a question of what you are going to do.
PL Is not the word to Timothy on this line, “Do the work of an evangelist” 2 Timothy 4:[p. 567] 5?
JT Yes.
Ques What had you in mind in referring to a coloured man?
JT The need that is in the world. I do not say we should go out to Africa at all, but only to call attention to the need, and that there should be no discrimination on our part as to those whom we serve; here is a case with Philip.
FWJ He would welcome the support of the assembly, would he not?
JT Yes, Philip would have the fellowship of the brethren; that is taken account of earlier, for “Jerusalem, having heard that Samaria had received the word of God, sent to them Peter and John” Acts 8:14. If God has brought in a principle, there is no need for it to be repeated; it stands.
FS Do you suggest we should not look for the support of the brethren till there is evidence of God supporting us in the work we take up?
JT I should not expect the brethren to put their hands on me before that. Saul is converted and he goes into the synagogue and preaches the Son of God; there you have the same idea, but he is not formally called out to work until chapter 13.
YY-L Do you think it would be happy today for young men to go out where there is no meeting and, perhaps, hire a room, and seek, under the Lord’s hand, to preach there, that material might be brought in?
JT That is exactly what I am thinking of. You thank God for the meeting-room, but after all, there are comparatively few of them.
YY-L I had in mind the exercise that is abroad today as to more meetings, as to whether God would not bring in souls so that you have a gathering that is indigenous to the soil of the place.
JT Yes. The meetings are increasing; thank God! but very largely through brethren’s children;
[p. 568] but you have in this instance new ground broken up, and broken up by persons in an unofficial way; they go and preach the word and the Lord is with them.
ASL “God’s dispensation which is in faith” (1 Timothy 1:4); we might say, every bit of it is in faith, and no one can get on with it otherwise than in faith. As to this question of service and qualifying for ministry, there must be the stepping out in faith in dependence on the Lord.
DLH Thus you will not go out depending on the brethren.
ASL No, but we need to keep the thing balanced; we want to beware of the principle of freelances.
JT Yes. As I was saying, if God brings in a principle, it enters into all that follows; so what you get in chapters 1 and 2 necessarily enters into chapter 8. Philip would have that in mind. No doubt he would not overlook that Peter stood “up with the eleven”.
FWJ What do you say about Saul getting his commission in chapter 9?
JT In chapter 9 you will remember he went and preached in the synagogue that Jesus is the Son of God, and that on his own initiative. Then we have nothing more about his service till Cornelius is brought in, and we have chapter 8 linked up with chapter 11, for the Spirit again refers to the fact that those who were scattered preached. (See verse 19.) They went down as far as Antioch, and some of them preached to the Grecians. There is not a word said in any of those cases about their having been sent or their having gift, but God was with them and persons believed through them. Then Barnabas comes down from Jerusalem to co-ordinate the work, and seeing what God is doing, he goes to seek out Saul, discerning that the work needed a special man.
FWJ Does an interval come in [p. 569] with Paul in connection with being twelve months at Antioch (Acts 11:26)?
JT He and Barnabas teach the assembly there for a whole year; then there is the prayer and fasting and they are separated by the call of the Spirit to the work to which He had called them. There is the definite call, and the saints are called upon to lay their hands on them now; they are qualified.
ASL Paul had qualified in his own individual exercise and faith, had he not?
JT Certainly. The principles of chapters 1 and 2 are never lost sight of, but those chapters (8 and 11) show what a wide field there is for brethren to take up the work in the service of the Lord on their own initiative, and faith, in dependence on the Lord, and in due course it will come to light whether they have gift or whether they have not. If they have gift, the saints will lay their hands on them, and I believe they will be supported, financially and otherwise.
Ques What would answer at the present day to the persecution of these early days?
ASL Persecution might take the form of a deep sense in those going out of the desolation and dearth there are all around, so that, like the four lepers (2 Kings 7) they would be compelled to go out. We need not discourage anyone, but there is great need of balance. There must be reality of faith that trusts the Lord directly, and, at the same time, dependence on the brethren. Is not the best qualifying ground often the street-corner?
Rem Yes. Then the one at the street-corner will be pretty well tested, and the Lord will support him.
JT Yes. The Holy Spirit made full allowance for opportunity being given to the saints to acquire a knowledge of Saul and Barnabas, before He asked them to lay their hands on them; for I think that the Spirit saying, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul” (Acts 13:2) means that He had an intimate knowledge of those [p. 570] two men Himself. He, being here, had an intimate knowledge of the persons. But then, the saints were not so well acquainted with them, so they are with the company at Antioch a whole year before they are called upon to lay their hands on them.
DLH Then Antioch became a fresh centre for the activity of the Spirit in regard to the Gentiles.
JT Quite, and that brings up another thing, that God’s work proceeds in an unofficial way; Antioch was primarily the product of unofficial preaching. Some of those scattered ventured to preach to the Grecians, and the venture was justified. If they had been sent, the responsibility would have been on the one who sent them, but they did it of their own accord, and the result showed that God blessed it. Then Jerusalem recognised the work and sent out Barnabas, and Barnabas seeks out Saul, so they were at Antioch together for a year. Then we are told what was there; “the assembly which was there” (Acts 13:1), and the list is given of distinguished men who were there — the same idea as in chapter 1 — certain distinguished persons, rich and poor, and then the Holy Spirit says, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them” Acts 13:2.
ASL He would say that through one of the prophets, I suppose.
JT Yes, I should say so. Then another feature is noted — the fasting and the prayer of the brethren. If the Holy Spirit said, Separate them, we might have assumed there was nothing more to be done but to do what He said; but the point is, the saints are called upon to do something, and they show that they are going to do it in a spiritual way. They fast and pray. Fasting would mean that these two men are not regarded as my personal friends, I am not laying my hands on them because I like them personally, nor are they my relatives; no natural feeling whatever is allowed to enter into this matter, if I fast.
[p. 571] Some brethren have great ability to entertain the saints, and that might enter into our appreciation of them, but if I fast, I will not take any account of that at all. I am sure the Lord would help us on those lines — to avoid personal friendships — personal preferences.
FWJ Prayer and fasting make conditions.
JT Yes. Sometimes we hear of certain brothers being always invited to certain localities, and certain others not invited at all to those parts. Why is that? Is it the result of fasting, or is it the result of personal preferences?
PL The Lord Himself is the model. He prayed before He selected the disciples.
JT Yes, prayed a whole night. Prayer is dependence; fasting is disallowance of natural feeling.
ASL “This kind can go out by nothing but by prayer and fasting” Mark 9:29.
Ques Is it that prayer and fasting would keep one in line with the Spirit’s movements?
JT I think so. After the Holy Spirit calls upon them to separate these two men, they fasted and prayed before they did it. I think the Holy Spirit would be greatly pleased with that, for their action then would be in entire accord with His selection. In searching their hearts with regard to these two men, they would go back a whole year and see what had marked each of them as amongst them. Has Saul’s course been such that we can without reserve lay our hands on him? I am sure the more they thought over Saul, the more they would feel he was a worthy man; and so with Barnabas, how unjealous he was amongst them. All that would enter into the fasting.
PL That is a great qualification; it is the spirit of heaven, there is no jealousy there.
JT [p. 572] Yes. It would no doubt stand out in the minds of the saints at Antioch what Barnabas was when he came down as representative of Jerusalem. He might have said, ‘I have come down from Jerusalem; you must listen to me’, but he went and got another man.
PL Would the fasting prevent it being done suddenly? “Lay hands quickly on no man” 1 Timothy 5:22. There is a definite spiritual judgment arrived at by analysis.
JT Yes; and then another would say, ‘Barnabas had lands and he sold them and laid the money at the apostles’ feet’. That sort of thing enters into our committing ourselves to brethren.
PL And continuance promotes confidence.
JT Yes; they were with the company in Antioch the four seasons — winter, summer, spring and autumn — the whole year.