GOD'S FOUNDATION

GOD’S FOUNDATION

1 Corinthians 3:9 - 12; Ephesians 2:19 - 22

JT The Old Testament always helps in illustrating truths, and this particularly applies to the truth of the foundation of the assembly. We have fundamental ideas emphasised in Exodus in connection with the tabernacle, and in 1 Kings and 2 Chronicles in connection with the temple; these books greatly help to elucidate the truth relative to the foundation of Christianity. In Chronicles we have a general idea of “Solomon’s foundation” without much as to the material or the actual formation of it; whereas 1 Kings enlarges on the actual building, the material used in the foundation, the length of the stones and how they were hewn apart — sawn. These books, as I said, help us to see how that which is general, as presented in Matthew 16, becomes concrete. In Exodus the idea is connected more with the individual in type, each board having two tenons set in sockets of silver. Outwardly, in the court, the fundamental idea is brass. When Peter made his confession in answer to the Lord’s inquiry, the Lord said that He would build His assembly on that foundation, that is, on the confession of Himself as the Christ, the Son of the living God. But we have to go to the epistles and to the types to see how the thing becomes concrete — how it actually takes form, so that it becomes practical to us. The idea of the foundation is largely theoretical with many saints, and it would be an immense help if we could see the practical side of it; the concrete side in the epistles is seen in the apostles — in what they did.

That is in a general way what I had before me. I mention it so that the brethren may anticipate the inquiry. Every believer should himself be able to ^[p. 143] give some account of what he is resting on, in a practical way, whether it is on the brass, or the silver, or the stone.

JJ What epistles would you connect with these three ideas — the brass, the silver and the stone?

JT I think the brass and the silver for the foundation is in Romans; God’s judgment against sin to begin with, in the brass, and the work of redemption involving His love in providing a sacrifice; these come out in Romans. The stone is a formation; not, indeed, as regards the Lord, but as regards ourselves; He is not a formation, He is the Rock — “on this rock”

JJ Would that be Ephesians?

JT Yes, I think Colossians and Ephesians lead on to that.

GM What did you mean as to the saints being theoretical in regard to the foundation?

JT That there is very little application of the thing in one’s experience as to what one is resting on, at least as I observe, and there is corresponding weakness and uncertainty. The brass supporting the pillars in the outer court points to the judgment of God against sin, as corresponding with the brazen altar, where the offerings were made and in connection with which all the slaughtering took place — the rivers of blood that flowed. It is well to take the thing as it is and picture what a terrible scene it was. The impression intended to be conveyed is God’s judgment of sin, so that one learns the Lord at the brazen altar, and the sacrifices offered thereon point to the Lord Jesus as meeting all that, as bearing the wrath of God. One thus learns, to begin with, to rest in that — that sin has been dealt with and dealt with publicly. One’s public position, therefore, is secure, being founded on the known judgment of God against sin; and then further, as relating to the testimony of God, you know something about His love in redemption:

“^[p. 144] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption which [is] in Christ Jesus” Romans 3:24,25. It is His righteousness, but His love enters into it.

Ques Do we see the thought of the righteousness and the love of God in the sockets of silver?

JT That is what I thought. You begin to see that God Himself has provided the sacrifice; He has done it and you become more confident. You are thus fit, not only to be a public witness, but to support the testimony. The boards stood upright, they were made standing up, it says, but they were not standing up according to nature, but in the sense of redemption. One can lift up one’s head in that way in the sense of redemption.

Ques Is that why you get the boards put together and the bars to hold them in position before you get the mention of the gold?

JT There is then that which can support what is of God; the gold is what is of God. God Himself begins to appear now in the believer; the love of God is shed abroad in his heart by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit binds us together — alluding to the bars. Gold is more the love of God, God Himself is there.

JJ Does the thought of the foundation involve the displacement of a good deal that is not in accord with it? Is that why the thought of the foundation is known only theoretically amongst us, because we are not prepared to accept the principle of displacement suggested in the sacrifice — what the sacrifice removed?

JT One has to learn to judge oneself in the light of the brazen altar — of what occasioned that, and it is that self-judgment that makes room for what is concrete in the way of foundation.

Ques Would you say that those mentioned at the end of Romans are seen as supported by the things that you have been mentioning?

^[p. 145] JT As mentioned in chapter 16. Exactly; they were commendable, they were typically boards.

Rem They are saluted as knowing something about the brass and the silver.

JT You salute such an one — a board, so to speak; you salute one who is standing up for the testimony of God in any locality; and that is the idea in Romans and Corinthians. Later on Paul saluted the brethren (Acts 21:7); he saluted them and passed on.

AC Would the teaching of Romans 3:21 be connected with what you have said? “But now without law the righteousness of God is manifested, borne witness to by the law and the prophets”

JT Well, that is just the point. You come into correspondence with what is set forth in the metals used in the tabernacle. As you advance in Romans, you advance from brass to silver and from silver to gold; the gold is to be sustained. The silver supports, it was a support to the thing — all rests on it. That is what is called objective — Christ in death redeeming us; all that is supported, and in virtue of that I support what is of God. It is as redeemed, and having the Holy Spirit that I support what is of God; that is how the tabernacle becomes understood; I form part of it.

Ques Would it be right to connect the thought of faith with brass and silver?

JT Yes; that is the great feature of the early part of Romans; you come into everything by faith. But then the second part of the epistle is the Spirit.

JJ So those mentioned in chapter 16 had learnt the principles of Romans.

JT I think they had; they represent the teaching of the book, they were those whom the apostle could single out in Rome; he had never been there, but they were those who stood out as representing ^[p. 146] what he taught; he salutes them — twenty times you get that.

PL Would you say the wonderful affinities which divine love produces between brethren are suggested in the greetings?

JT Yes; you see the different qualities in these persons; each has his own quality; each is marked by some particular feature as the evidence of the work of God.

JJ Would you say that in 1 Corinthians 3 where they were saying, “I am of Paul” and another, “of Apollos” that they were not really in accord with the foundation?

JT They were not; what the apostle is aiming at is to set aside at Corinth the partisan spirit. You cannot have the truth of the tabernacle worked out in such circumstances. It has often been noted that the Corinthians had written to Paul about several things, but they did not write about the one thing that troubled them most, and that was the most damaging, that is, the spirit of partisanship — the spirit of division; that was what they were suffering from, and it is that which he begins with: “Now I exhort you, brethren ... that there be not among you divisions” 1 Corinthians 1:10 In the beginning of the Acts you see them standing up boldly; is that the truth of the foundation?

JT I think so, they were assured of their position.

Ques Do you think we may be looking within too much, and that there is too much introspection with us, rather than looking out towards God’s side of things?

JT I do not quite think that; I do not think there is enough introspection; not that you would make people legal, because too much of it would make them legal and self-occupied, but John’s epistle is ^[p. 147] intended to bring about self-examination, so that you should find out just where you are, what is the extent of the work of God in you, what foundation you are on. If you are on the foundation of righteousness, that is, that you have learnt the truth of God dealing with sin, well, that is good, but do not be content with that; go further, get the idea of the silver, then you go on to the foundation as underlying the whole structure, not only for your own soul, but for the whole structure. Chronicles gives the general idea of Solomon’s foundation, that is, for the whole structure. The authorised version is not quite clear. In 2 Chronicles 3 the idea is the fundamental principles. The New Translation renders it, “this was Solomon’s foundation” 2 Chronicles 3:3 The idea is the fundamental principles on which the structure was to be reared up, so that immediately that is mentioned you have the question of measurement. It is more abstract than Kings, because Kings gives you actual material and the foundation. But you want the two things; the one is really objective, a sort of balancing truth, and the other is subjective — the actual thing wrought into you.

GM How would one calculate in regard to those measurements?

JT The idea of measurement is most important. An architect necessarily must have measurements. In making his plans he must have measurements; he works on that principle; and it is on that principle that the builder works from the architect’s plan. Now that is more like Chronicles; it is the abstract idea, Solomon’s foundation, and then there is a list of measurements, whereas 1 Kings is more the builders taking the thing up and building, like this passage in Corinthians: “as a wise architect, I have laid the foundation” Paul not only drew the plans, but he started the thing; he gave them the lead; the whole thing is before his mind, and he gave ^[p. 148] them the lead as to what to do. He says, No one can lay another foundation; the one I have laid is the one, and it is Jesus Christ.

JJ Would you connect Matthew 16 with the idea in Chronicles, and Corinthians with Kings?

JT Quite.

JJ That is very helpful to distinguish.

JT You find in 1 Kings that there is a great deal more said about the glory of Solomon and his kingdom before the building than in Chronicles. You get a full account of the magnificence of Solomon’s regime before you get the building in Kings, because, as it would appear, where you come to actual building, actual work, it is well to be imbued with the sense of the greatness of the wisdom and the glory of Christ, so that you take up your work aright. It is in Kings that you get the mother of the child determined, and that wisdom enters into the building.

JJ What was your thought in regard to the measurements?

JT It is the idea in Chronicles, corresponding, as has been remarked, with the Lord’s general proposal that He would build; it was still future. He would build on a certain foundation, on a Rock rather, but we do not get the actual thing until we come to the epistles; I mean it is not dealt with. We get it in the Acts, of course, but the doctrine is seen in the epistles, and there it is what the apostles are doing, and what you may be doing, and what I may be doing. It is what is going on all the time. Hence the importance of 1 Kings, that we should be imbued with the greatness of Christ, His wisdom, the glory and greatness of His kingdom, and the resources; these all come in before you have any building in 1 Kings.

Rem What you say suggests that if there is to be any building, we must take account of the plan.

^[p. 149] JT Well, that is the other side. Solomon’s foundation is the idea in Chronicles.

JJ The Corinthians were not working according to the plan in bringing in other names.

JT And they are defective not only as regards the dimensions, but as regards the material.

JJ Why does the apostle link the thought of husbandry with it?

JT It is an agricultural term — another thought that goes with building: “Prepare thy work without, and put thy field in order, and afterwards build thy house” Proverbs 24:27. The field necessarily goes with the building, because you draw the material from the field.

JJ Would it bring in the thought of growth at all?

JT One is an agricultural idea, and the other is architectural.

Ques Is the building in relation to the saints generally, or does it relate to ourselves?

JT Well, as I said, Exodus would begin with the individual — the board with the two tenons set in silver, an individual idea — then so many individuals bound together, not in the foundation, but above, with the bars. The foundation is all of a kind, but in an individual way; the silver, too, is in an individual way, for each board was set and stood on its own foundation.

Ques You were saying that in 1 Kings the greatness of Solomon is presented before the material is brought in. Would you tell us why the apostle in 1 Corinthians speaks of Jesus Christ and Him crucified first?

JT There is the clearing-away principle, as our brother was remarking, a sort of excavation work going on in the soul in the light of Jesus Christ and Him crucified. It is a most humiliating thing for the flesh, but you have to accept it. But then in the ^[p. 150] same chapter Paul goes on to speak of the Lord of glory, that is Solomon’s in 1 Kings, and he points out that while he is unable to speak of it as he would wish, yet he does speak of it; he says, “But we speak God’s wisdom [in] a mystery, that hidden [wisdom] which God had predetermined before the ages for our glory” 1 Corinthians 2:7. I think there you get an inkling in a way; he could not enlarge on it in the epistle to the Corinthians because of their state, but it is there; the idea of the Lord of glory is there.

Ques Would the reference to Jesus Christ and Him crucified indicate that there was a deficiency in the apprehension of the brass?

JT Quite. There was certainly a deficiency in every way amongst them, that is, from the subjective side. They came behind in no gift; they had light enough, too, but they were deficient as regards what the Lord teaches in Luke 6 — the digging deep; that is where the deficiency was. It is in the digging that you strike rock.

Ques Would the sockets of silver present what one might call the positive side of the death of Christ?

JT I think so. There are two tenons. There is nothing of that kind in the foundation of brass outside under the posts; it is the general thought of God dealing with sin. But when you come to the sockets there are two, pointing, not only to righteousness, but to love. The idea is witness, I think — witness to you of redemption; you have got that witness in your soul. The Holy Spirit is a witness to you, as a matter of fact.

Ques Would the silver suggest what was in the heart of God in movement towards us?

JT I think it does; it is God coming in in redemption — the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; “whom God has set forth”; Romans 3:25 it is God doing it now.

Ques Would you say the brass clears the ground, and silver brings in what is positive?

^[p. 151] JT Quite. I think that the excavation to make room for the thing is what is needed as seen in Luke 6. The Lord had been unfolding wonderful things — objective truth, but He says anyone hearing and not doing is like a man who builds a house on the sand without foundation. That was really the Corinthian state.

Rem Everything seemed to be objective with them.

JT Just so; so that in the bringing in of Jesus Christ and Him crucified in the beginning of chapter 2 he was aiming at the state of division amongst them; they were not really resting on the foundation at all. He begins to exhort them in regard to that, and then he asks, “Was Paul crucified for you?” (chapter 1:13.) Redemption was not really known in a practical way by them.

Ques Would you say they did not understand Romans 3:25? If they had taken in verse 24, “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption which [is] in Christ Jesus” that would have been a solid foundation, would it not?

JT It would, indeed. That is the idea in the silver of the tabernacle — each board resting on that.

Rem You do not get the love until chapter 5.

JT No; you get the love, however, before you have the question of sin in you dealt with. You have sins dealt with, then you have the love of God by the Spirit, and it is by the presence of the Spirit really that you are enabled to accept the truth relative to sin in you.

Ques Is that why the apostle says in chapter 1, “to all that are in Rome, beloved of God, called saints”?

JT In regard to ‘called’, that is they were called out, it was not simply that they are designated saints, but they were called; he calls them to be that.

^[p. 152] Ques In suggesting this chapter in Corinthians, is it your thought that we should be exercised as to building?

JT You see how you are brought into it, and the kind of thing; what the foundation is when it comes to a concrete matter. Matthew 16 is Solomon’s foundation, undoubtedly. Much is considered in 2 Chronicles 3; there is what is shown — the site of the temple, where the foundation was to be laid corresponding with the revelation made to Peter. Then it goes on to say, “This was Solomon’s foundation” 2 Chronicles 3:3 which means the fundamental things that he was to be governed by in building, so that a list of measurements is then given. That in a general way is Matthew, but when you come to the concrete it is what the apostles did, and so you have here what Paul laid, “which was Jesus Christ” he says. But then, when you examine what he says elsewhere you find that his preaching at Corinth was the Son of God. “The Son of God, Jesus Christ” he says, “who has been preached by us among you (by me and Silvanus and Timotheus), did not become yea and nay, but yea is in him” 2 Corinthians 1:19 That was how he preached. Whatever text he might use, whatever he might say in his preaching at Corinth, he would convey the idea of the Son of God. But then he would also convey that that Person was a man altogether different from any other man, Jew, Greek, or Barbarian — a new order of man altogether. When you come to the concrete, you get the idea of an order of man different from yourself; that idea comes into the soul; and that is what Paul is dealing with here, and there is nothing to be added afterwards different from that.

Ques Would you say that the apostle’s teaching at Corinth was in accord more with the Matthew idea?

JT Always. Solomon’s foundation could never be out of view in any of the apostle’s teaching, so that in Ephesians it is “built upon the foundation of the apostles” — not Paul only, but all the apostles — “and prophets” showing that the prophets had part in it. That conveys to us how extensive the thing is — that the ministry of the twelve and of the prophets who laboured with them was taken up with the foundation.

Rem What I had in mind was what you were referring to — the presentation of the Son of God.

JT Precisely, and so the apostles would all aim at that, although we have not many of their sermons; the only sermons we have of the twelve being Peter’s in the early part of the Acts, but we have several of Paul’s. What the others preached we are not told, but we are told that they were in the foundation, and that the foundation was theirs; in Revelation, as the city comes down it shows us that each was different, because each is described by a precious stone.

Rem I take it that John falls back on the presentation of the Son of God.

JT Well, quite, he gives you the Son of God, but he also emphasises the order of man that is there.

JJ It is remarkable that Paul likens himself to an architect and also to a builder, which the Lord really was Himself, but there is only one foundation.

JT There is only one foundation — Jesus Christ, but when you come to the concrete it is what the apostles did.

PL The truth of the foundation is connected with the Person; His qualities as man came out in the building.

JT His qualities as man enter, too, into the foundation.

PL Then in detail, are they not connected with the building?

JT I think so. The question of our building is in connection with that; but sonship in us underlies ^[p. 154] the order of man, that is to say, the order of man is the Son in manhood; that is what I understand. But you get the idea of the Son of God: “We know that the Son of God has come” 1 John 5:20. But then the spirit of Antichrist would deny that Jesus Christ has come in flesh, showing that antichristian teaching sets aside the truth of the new order of man. But it must all be founded on the Son coming in — what He is here as man.

Rem In connection with the other aspect of the building, its being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, it says, “Jesus Christ himself being the corner-stone”; but here He is referred to as the foundation.

JT The corner-stone is Jesus Christ Himself; that is not connected with the apostles’ ministry there, but the foundation is.

Rem Is the corner-stone the apex of it all?

JT Yes, it is the thing that crowns all. It is an ornamental idea as well as a binding one. It is Jesus Christ Himself.

Rem So the foundation and the top-stone are the Lord Himself.

JT Exactly, only the top-stone is not connected with apostolic ministry, it is Himself, that is to say, it makes room for all that should come in later, and the finish, so that the reference to it in Zechariah 4 is that the hands of Zerubbabel had laid the foundation-stone, and his hands should put on the top-stone, the corner one; it is one work and the top-stone is the end. It is in a day of small things that that is brought in, so it would indicate that the top-stone is the Lord Himself coming in to be it.

Rem It is not exactly Jesus Christ Himself in Corinthians.

JT No; here it is more to establish the order of man than the Lord’s own personal part. Jesus Christ Himself brings the Person in — He brings Himself in.

^[p. 155] Ques Is that why in Proverbs 8 Christ is referred to as having that unique place with Jehovah before ever the foundations of the earth were appointed, and then it goes on to speak of the habitable parts of the earth?

JT It would appear that there are two meanings given by the critics for that word ‘nursling’ (verse 30), one referring to the thought of affection, the other translated ‘his artificer’. Either one may be right; either one is suggested there. The nursling of His love would be a sort of diminutive thought, expressing one who is the centre of affection, but if it is artificer, as it may be, we see how far-reaching it is; but all is in wisdom.

Rem That is why I thought the building was in view in the thought of the artificer.

JT It is very touching that it is Jesus Christ Himself that is the head of the corner. It brings the Lord in in a very personal way, not only in regard to what He is as expressing an order of man, but in a personal way, as the crowning thought. The headstone is laid by Zerubbabel with shoutings, crying, “Grace, grace unto it!” Zechariah 4:7 It is in that way that the top-stone is honoured peculiarly.

PL So that “I Jesus” is to crown all that is put on.

JT Just so, and He says, “I am the root and offspring of David, the bright [and] morning star” Revelation 22:16 that is to the assembly. The root of David would be John’s gospel, the offspring would be Matthew’s gospel. The assembly understands, so that He is hailed and invited to come in and will thus be the crown of all. The crown of all is known and admired in the affections of the saints and adored and given that place.

Ques Do you connect Jesus Christ Himself with the Father’s revelation in Matthew?

JT Yes.

^[p. 156] Rem You emphasised the thought of digging a moment or two ago; is your thought that we should be exercised before the Lord individually, so that we might really reach the thought that there is one Man before God?

JT Well, it is spade work to start with; it is rough work, but most essential if we are to have any solidity to our building.

Ques Why is the foundation of God mentioned in 2 Timothy?

JT There again you have what is akin to Solomon’s foundation; it is the foundation of God.

Ques What do you understand by that expression?

JT It is what God has brought in through the work of Christ; it is what God maintains here by the Spirit, and that remains. Whenever God works in any individual now he is brought back to that, so that in Ezra, in the recovery, they did not begin with that, they began with the altar, and very rightly, for in recovery there will be sacrifice. You arrive at the foundation in that way. The people of God are already there, but in recovery you begin to sacrifice; you give up things and offer sacrifice to God, and God protects you, because “fear was upon them” Ezra 3:3. God being what He is must protect the altar, and the protection enables you to go on and build on the foundation; you make progress. That is the point in 2 Timothy, and that stands, and the believer leaving what is evil comes to it.

JJ What is in the apostle’s mind here in bringing in the gold and the silver and the precious stones?

JT It is in order to warn the saints; he says, “But let each see how he builds upon it” — as if each believer were to have part in it; as it says in Proverbs 14:1, “The wisdom of women buildeth their house” which would apply in every local company. That kind of wisdom would never bring in wood, hay, stubble — the sort of ^[p. 157] material which is seen all around in evangelical Christendom; they attach importance to bulk and show of no intrinsic value — reports as to the number of converts, the amount of money contributed to missionary work, big churches. All these things are conspicuous; it is bulk, but all that will go in the fire.

Rem The other — gold, silver and precious stone — is more quality.

JT That is what God is doing; He is exercising His people in regard to quality; it is very much better to have a little of good quality than to have bulk that will go in the fire.

Rem So the excavation precedes the foundation.

JT And you do not want to bring in that rubbish (what is excavated) again and put it in the structure.

Ques Is it on the line of encouragement that it says, “Yet the firm foundation of God stands” 2 Timothy 2:19 That is the point; it is the ‘firm’ one; you go back to that.

Rem The building today is not on the line of public show, but on the line of hidden wisdom. It would take form in the souls of the saints.

JT Just so; you are concerned about quality; although you may have only a few, you want them right.

Rem What the Lord was here among men was not on the line of public show, but what was entirely according to God.

JT Quite. When the Lord is introduced in Luke, He is introduced as a babe; and then as baptised He is praying; that is the kind of man you want, and heaven is delighted with Him. It is not a question of bulk, but of intrinsic value. So John introduces the Lord as the Lamb. The Lamb is a diminutive thought, but intrinsically precious; you do not want to get away from that, you are content with that.

^[p. 158] Ques Would you say a little about the gold?

JT The gold is what is supported. I think it is more a question of what is of God.

Ques Is that true individually before the boards are put together?

JT No doubt that is one idea. What is of God is to be presented to man, but the idea is first laid hold of individually as the love of God shed abroad in the heart.

JJ Ephesians and Corinthians give the temple.

JT It is ‘temple’ in Corinthians, the kind of thing, not the complete thought; indeed, the truth in the Corinthians is in its local setting; how things are carried on locally, and so it is, “ye are [the] temple of God” (1 Corinthians 3:16), whereas in Ephesians the truth is in its general setting; it is universal, and so we grow to a holy temple in the Lord, looking on to the millennium.

Ques I suppose it is as we are in the light of what is universal — the building as the dwelling-place of God by the Spirit — that we shall work it out locally?

JT Just so. It is well to see that both Corinthians and Ephesians have what is general in view; but Corinthians works out to “all in every place” but then it begins locally, whereas Ephesians takes everything up from the standpoint of what is universal. “[There is] one body, and one Spirit, as ye have been also called in one hope of your calling” Ephesians 4:4 The truth works out in a universal way, as you love all the saints.

JJ The temple in Ephesians is not a characteristic thought, whereas in Corinthians it is.

JT In Ephesians it is what we are growing to. In Corinthians it is to deliver the saints from any central idea; there is no centre such as Jerusalem every local company has enough to go on with. You have the character of the thing, however few you may be. Ephesians is having the building so ^[p. 159] that we are growing to it. They were not said to be growing to it at Corinth; they were it characteristically. In Ephesians you grow to it.

Ques Do we reach this by way of Peter’s ministry?

JT Yes. Peter’s ministry dovetails with Paul’s; you reach the same point, though perhaps on a lower level — universality, and life, and independency in regard of what had previously held you religiously on earth. The saints were living stones; they were a holy priesthood, and they offered up spiritual sacrifices; Peter says you are all these.

Ques Would you say a word as to the bearing of the position in Ephesians on the local setting?

JT Well, you are local, but as is shown in the Acts, Ephesians is reached by way of the “upper regions”; Paul reached Ephesus on the upper level. Apollos was at Corinth, that is, he was holding the lower level — if you understand what I mean — as the testimony of God here in the presence of men; having been taken up as a sinner, justified, and made a board, I am sustaining what is of God here in the presence of men; that is Corinth. Ephesus is on the upper level. According to Ephesians I have come down from heaven morally to be here as a heavenly man, as the sheet came down to Peter. The testimony comes down from heaven and is to be caught up there again to remain.

Rem Like the man who came from Baal-shalisha; 2 Kings 4:42.

JT Just so, from another world altogether. But Corinthians is that I am here where I had sinned, where I was once a wicked man, but I am converted and I am known to be converted, I am known to be changed, I have the Holy Spirit, and I am bearing the testimony of God, where I am well known. That is the idea. Whereas viewed from Ephesians I am another man altogether, from another land, so that Ephesians enters into the position of Corinthians,

^[p. 160] and if you come in on that line you will adorn the testimony on earth.

Rem In Ezra’s day it was the seventh month before the altar was set up and sacrifices offered.

JT The altar was set up first and then the building.

Ques “The day shall declare [it]” 1 Corinthians 3:13 What is the day referred to? Does it bear on the Christian period or have we to wait for that?

JT That is future, but a crisis often corresponds with it. The day of God, and the judgment-seat of Christ are anticipated where there is spiritual discernment, so that in the case of anything happening in a locality that may be complicated, there may have been a dark state of things in that locality for months or years, and then God allows something to happen that brings out what is there and things are exposed. I think the saints ought to be ready to take account of that.

PL “To-morrow will Jehovah make known” Numbers 16:5.

JT That is a good illustration of it, and so the staves of the princes having been laid up overnight, the staff of Aaron for the house of Levi budded and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms and yielded almonds; every one is to take account of that; life came in overnight in its order. So that when God allows a crisis in a gathering it is that the approved may be manifest. That ought to be taken notice of, and if we have eyes to see, we may see it.

Ques Would it be in the way of encouragement?

JT It is very encouraging that there are some that are approved. We want to look out for them; we do not want to condemn the just with the wicked.

Rem You would give your hand of fellowship to such?

JT Certainly, for what God is doing is making manifest ^[p. 161] the approved.

PL It is in the house that he who invites says, “Friend, go up higher” Luke 14:10; it is there, is it not, that testimony is given to what will take place in that coming day? It is as Son over the house that He brings everything to an issue.

JT That is right. When there is subjection to the Spirit things may come to light. There is no doubt that the Spirit being here things do come to light, and each gets his place. Wickedness is exposed, if there has been wickedness.

JJ The fire is mentioned here three or four times.

JT The judgment of God finds its objects, but this, doubtless, looks on to the end when there will be final judgment of everything. As Paul said, “Do not judge anything before [the] time, until the Lord shall come, who shall also both bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and shall make manifest the counsels of hearts: and then shall each have [his] praise from God” 1 Corinthians 4:5.

PL Does building cover all true service, whatever we do, whether in testimony, shepherd-care, or by influence?

JT I think it does. To put it in a simple way, love builds; “the wisdom of women buildeth their house” Proverbs 14:1 That would be love acting wisely. The wisdom would be the subjective thing; it is not men, it is women; I am influencing my brethren in whatever I am doing; that is the idea, so that everyone has part in it.

Rem In connection with the Corinthians it is said of them, “Ye are [the] temple of God” 1 Corinthians 3:16 that was irrespective of their condition; the Holy Spirit was in them.

JT You cannot ignore condition; but if the Holy Spirit were not there, you could not have the temple.

^[p. 162] Rem You were referring to Romans earlier, “Being justified freely ... through the redemption which [is] in Christ Jesus” Romans 3:24 That is subjective; but it is already received in the soul, and becomes fundamental and subjective.

Rem The things that are spoken of are in contrast here — brass, silver, straw, hay, etc.

JT They seem to be; the gold, silver, and precious stones refer to what is of God, what abides.

Rem The words used in the New Translation seem to suggest definitely on the one hand what is of God, and on the other what is of man.

JT Yes.

Ques Why is gold so prominent a thing in the temple?

JT Because the whole point of God’s intervention among men is that He might be known and witnessed to.