THE SUPPLY OF THE SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST (5)
[p. 252] THE SUPPLY OF THE SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST (5)
JT It would be good to touch again on some of the points mentioned in chapter 2, and in this chapter, also, we should notice the mention of certain ones alluded to as “enemies of the cross of Christ” — a remarkable expression. It is said in chapter 2 that the Lord became “obedient even unto death, and that the death of the cross”, alluding to the agonising and extremely humiliating character of His death, and carrying with it, according to other scriptures, the idea of the curse, as is said, “Cursed is every one hanged upon a tree”, Galatians 3:13. The occasion of the curse reminds us of what we are in the flesh, so that we may apply it to ourselves in a collective way, as in Romans, “our old man has been crucified with him” (Romans 6:6), and then individually, “I am crucified with Christ”, Galatians 2:20.
Ques Is the cross the termination of the bond-service of Christ?
JT I would not say that. The thought is carried on, and the idea of bond-service may be taken up at any time. Is that your own thought?
Rem I was trying to get clear as to what you had in mind in your reference to Exodus 21: 6 — being a bondman for ever.
JT It is to bring out the length to which love will go: “I love my master, my wife, and my children”, but it must not be assumed that bondmanship covers all that Christ is as having become Man, either before or after the cross. As Man He can act on that principle at any time, showing the extent to which love will go. Love is itself, whether you see it descending into the depths of death or ascending far above all heavens; it is love in either case. Ascending “that he might fill all things” (Ephesians 4:10) enables Him to serve as He could not serve otherwise. Taking a bondman’s form is formally and definitely humiliation. His exaltation is God’s act in answer to the descent and sufferings, and has not bondmanship in view.
Ques Do you make a distinction between bondmanship and the Lord’s ordinary service?
JT Not much. “I am in the midst of you as the one that serves” (Luke 22:27), is that principle, although there is another word used for the service involving the worship of God, and He is the Minister of that. That is not bondmanship. Exodus 21 shows the extent to which love will go; it is a question of love, but Exodus 28, spiritually understood, shows how the same Person is clothed with dignity. The priestly habiliments refer to personal dignity, but it is the servant still, only the word carries dignity: Jehovah says, “that he may serve me as priest”. The idea of bondmanship is not in the priesthood, but still it is the same Person, and it is service.
HES Is it intended especially to be by way of contrast, showing the depths of shame to which the Lord descended, and then the heights of glory to which He is raised?
JT That is the idea. Exodus 21 shows the depths to which love went, and chapter 28 shows the heights, because we have to take Exodus 28 into Hebrews, where the One who descended in love is passed beyond all heavens — and so in Ephesians. So that if the exigencies of the position required it, He would take on service, such as you might call bondman service. He is ready to do it, but doing it does not in any way detract from His personal glory; nor is it imposed upon Him.
WJH Do you think Peter failed to understand that when he said, “Lord, dost thou wash my feet”, John 13:6? He thought it would detract from the Lord.
JT Exactly. The service is the radiation of love; in truth love is shining there. Whilst the Lord was [p. 254] acting in service He was Himself, and His Person gave dignity to the action that no other person could give. But when He laid aside the symbols of service and put on His own garments and seated Himself at table again, He is to be regarded as in His personal dignity.
Ques In Deuteronomy 15, you get a similar expression: “he shall be thy bondman for ever”. Has that a bearing on it?
JT It is the Deuteronomic way of putting it, and applies more to believers. Exodus gives the thing more in detail to typify Christ and to bring out the love that exists in Him. In chapter 20 we have the thousands of those that love God; but then here is One that says, “I love”, and shows it in all that He does. He could go out free, but He goes to the doorpost and has His ear bored, all because He loves, and glory radiates in the movement.
Ques You do not carry the thought of “for ever” into eternity?
JT I do in the sense in which we have been speaking of it. It is a question of what the Lord may do, provided we keep clear in our minds that it does not cover His whole position or Person; it is a question of what He may do. We know what He is, and if He would show His love for some in an especial way He will “make them recline at table, and coming up will serve them”, Luke 12:37. He can do that. It is love in Him acting to honour some of His own for a particular reason.
Ques Does the passage in John 17 touch on the subject? “I sanctify myself for them” (verse 19).
JT Yes; it means that He has taken His present position on our account; it goes above and beyond millennial glory. His sanctification means that there He is setting Himself apart for the moment in view of the assembly and of christianity. It is His present place, the place of God’s counsels for man, and it is that they also might be sanctified, and how? Through the truth, the truth that has come out by the Spirit as to Christ’s present position in glory, in order to bring us into it. The Lord’s present place, the wonderful place of exaltation that man has during the present period, is to bring out the heavenly side of the purpose of God. The truth would mean, therefore, that they should be taken out from the Jewish setting to the much higher calling that the eternal purpose of God required for them. He sets forth that as He is in heaven now, and the Holy Spirit brings out the truth of it. We are to be affected by it and sanctified accordingly; not for a position in the millennium, but for heavenly glory, and He is the measure of our sanctification.
EJMcB The question of the cross terminating certain things has a much more serious side to it than perhaps we realise. The cross evidently is the means whereby the flesh and the world’s system are closed up, but it does not terminate anything that is of moral beauty in the sight of God, such as the service of Christ, which is evidently continued as in Luke 12, as pointed out, and in the gospel of John, when He says, “Come and dine” (John 21:12).
JT Exactly; He had evidently prepared the meal for them. The fire was there, and the bread, and the fish laid thereon; that was evidently His own doing. If we get the full idea of love as it is in Christ, into our minds, the thought of termination of bondmanship disappears.
MWB Is it desirable to draw a distinction between the relation of the bondman Godward — the taking of the bondman’s form as answering to the Hebrew servant — and the activities of love which had relation, not only to the master, but to the wife and the children? It was hardly the position of bondman to the wife and the children, but bondman to the master, but the love was exercised both to the master and the wife and the children.
JT It is the universality of love, that is, the ascending love, the horizontal love, and the descending [p. 256] love. Love delights to serve its objects, but in the type the bondmanship is in relation to the master, and we are told that the Son is to be “placed in subjection to him who put all things in subjection to him, that God may be all in all”, 1 Corinthians 15:28. There is nothing derogatory in His taking up that attitude at any time, but that does not cover His position, because He is constantly alluded to as God; you cannot apply bondmanship there.
EuR As to the cross, in 1 Corinthians the Lord is referred to as crucified, but here He becomes obedient to the death of the cross, and in Colossians we read that God nailed certain things to the cross. Would you say a word as to that?
JT John alludes to it peculiarly under the phrase, “lifted up”. First, “as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, thus must the Son of man be lifted up” (John 3:14). That was the divine necessity to carry out the divine thoughts; the Lord accepted it as a divine necessity; He must be “lifted up”. Then later, “When ye shall have lifted up the Son of man” (John 8:28); that was man’s doing. Then again, “I, if I be lifted up out of the earth, will draw all to me” (John 12:32), meaning that the ignominy of it did not becloud His attractiveness, but rather that His personal attractiveness shone out in it. We are told there what is meant, that it was the “death he was about to die”, a real and agonising death, but in spite of that, He should become the centre for all: because He says, “I ... will draw all to me”.
AJG Is the death of the cross brought in in this passage to show the length to which obedience would go?
JT That is the thought: “even the death of the cross”. That is the kind of death; His obedience went to that extreme. It is from His own point of view, knowing well what it meant; His obedience went as far as that. Hence, we get, “he went out, bearing his cross” (John 19:17); they laid it on Him, and we are enjoined in Hebrews 13, to “go forth to him” in spite of the cross, and not only that, but carrying it ourselves — “bearing his reproach”, the allusion being to His cross.
AJG So it becomes the climax, morally, of the excellence that attaches to the mind that was in Christ Jesus.
JT Exactly, that He would go that far. The intent is that we should come into correspondence with that, and of course we accept the necessity for it. In His case it was vicarious; there was nothing in Him to merit it, but in our case it is merited. That is, the more you discern yourself, the more spiritual you are, the more you own that the cross of Christ alone could terminate, according to the majesty and holiness of God, what man in the flesh is. A young believer does not come to it quickly, but it is the meanness of the flesh, what I am, the depths of meanness and incorrigibleness that one discovers in one’s heart. God took up the Jew to show how dreadful the flesh is. Looking abroad we see it worked out in the whole race, but especially in the Jew, and we say, “our old man”, that is the collective idea, “has been crucified with him, that the body of sin might be annulled”. The body of sin is annulled; it ceases to work as thus judged in the believer. To make it more individual, the apostle says, “I am crucified with Christ”. That is the point to be reached. Galatians stresses that: “I am crucified with Christ, and no longer live, I, but Christ lives in me”, Galatians 2:20. It is not simply that I have died with Christ, but I am crucified, meaning that I have come to God’s mind as to myself, as responsible in the flesh as expressed in the cross. It is the utter meanness and wickedness of what one is, and that its true desert according to God is crucifixion.
WJH One of the two that were hanged with Jesus said, “we indeed justly”.
[p. 258] Rem There could be no possible reviving, or reinstatement of that man.
JT I think Joshua helps and prepares us typically for this extremely solemn matter. In chapter 10 the kings were put into a cave, then the military men put their feet on their necks and they are hanged by the order of Joshua. They were the Canaanitish kings, really alluding anticipatively to the Jew and the way sin developed in him, in spite of the greatest privileges accorded to him.
EuR Colossians says: “having nailed it to the cross; having spoiled principalities and authorities, he made a show of them publicly, leading them in triumph by it”, Colossians 2:14,15.
JT Meaning that all that is against us, ceremonial show, ordinances and the like, attaching to man in the flesh, is annulled, and that is very touching, because the nailing really alludes to the hands of Christ. The Lord was made all that. Then, “leading them in triumph by it”, by the cross, shows what the thought of the cross is in christianity. It, as accepted, is the practical condemnation of the ceremonialism that is so prevalent in christendom.
JJ In chapter 2 would it be more in connection with the thought of a Model rather than atonement, corresponding with chapter 3:17, which says, “fix your eyes on those walking thus as you have us for a model; for many walk of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ”?
JT Christ is of course the Model in chapter 2. The will of God required the acceptance of such a death as that, and no doubt the apostle was conformed to it. “You have us for a model”, he says. Those that he alludes to were enemies of the cross, which would mean that they were enemies of it as worked out in such as Paul. Possibly they would not be enemies of it doctrinally, but as worked out in the saints, in the [p. 259] acceptance of what it means, including reproach. If men are not regenerate they do not like that, and that is largely the reason of the opposition. It is what true discipleship of Christ is, and men do not like it; there is reproach attached to it. To be a nominal christian is quite acceptable, but to be conformed to the death of Christ, even to the cross, is not acceptable in the world; it is very objectionable, and hence the opposition. They are the enemies, not exactly of Christ, but of the cross of Christ.
JJ Is that why he describes all he is here in chapter 3, and shows that all his honours as a man in the flesh are gone in the cross?
JT Quite so; that is how he looks at them.
HH In Corinthians it says, “Jesus Christ, and him crucified”, 1 Corinthians 2:2. I suppose that is not quite the side of atonement, but more the moral application of the cross of Christ.
JT Just so, and “the word of the cross”, too, in chapter 1:18. That is what is so important. What is always needed to be stressed is the “word of the cross”; the apostle boasted in it. The real import of it is opened up in the word of it, and it is what the apostle insisted upon at Corinth, to keep out the Greek, that type of man that would boast in himself and his culture.
Ques What would be the significance of the “cross of Jesus”? “By the cross of Jesus stood ...” John 19:25.
JT There it is the Lord in a personal sense. Look at the group of women standing there! His mother was there, and every one of them loved Jesus. It is a question of the Person. The cross of Christ, of course, is more the general or official thought, Christ being the One whom God had taken up to do His will. Jesus is more the personal thought — the One who has endeared Himself to me. That is how it stands in John 19; a group of lovers of Jesus were there, standing by His cross — near enough to be spoken to by Him.
ASL He does not say, enemies of Christ, but “enemies of the cross of Christ”. Men make a certain boast of Christ as a model man, but it is the cross of Christ that is so offensive.
JT That is right. As we were remarking, many are nominally christians, and being a christian nominally is not exactly objectionable in the world.
ASL Would you enlarge on the expression, the “word of the cross”?
JT “Word” there, as you know, is the opening up of the thing, conveying the bearing of it, which of course 1 Corinthians has in mind.
WB-w Do you think that the introduction of circumcision in Philippians 3 would refer to the cross: “Jesus Christ, and him crucified”?
JT Yes. “For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and boast in Christ Jesus, and do not trust in flesh”. That inquiry brings us to our chapter, and you will observe the words, “For the rest”. It is as if the apostle is about to finish, but his heart is so full of his subject — full of love for Christ, and full of love for the Philippians — that he continues, and we have two more chapters. It is the idea not of a calculated, but of a developed production, the thing opening up of itself and enlarging as he went on, so that he says, “For the rest, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord”. The apostle, among other things, is marked by rejoicing; and then he says, “to write the same things to you, to me is not irksome, and for you safe”, evidently alluding to things he had already said to them. It was not irksome to him to say them again, but it was safe for them. Then he calls attention to the thing against which we ought to be on our guard; he says, “See to dogs, see to evil workmen, see to the concision”. We have already said that the soil selected for this result — the Philippian assembly — was free from judaising influence; there was no synagogue mentioned as being in the city, and apparently the assembly was free from that element; thus the dangers [p. 261] of this kind which had to be met were generally outside. It was not so at Corinth, nor in Galatia; the evils working in these places were inside, but it is external dangers that are particularly in mind in this epistle. They were to be on their guard against them, and the first thing is “dogs”.
Ques Would Acts 15 be the inside dangers, and this chapter those outside?
JT Yes. Acts 15 contemplates that the enemy had instrumentalities inside. False brethren had crept in unawares. Certain persons had come down from Judaea and introduced judaism at Antioch; these found a footing in the assembly. Jerusalem is the centre of judaising influence, so that when Peter was in Antioch, it was persons who came from James that influenced him against the truth; Barnabas also was affected. But here they were outside: “See to dogs”. There is no suggestion that dogs are inside at Philippi.
JTS Would the affectionate feelings that mark the lovers of Jesus be found in the main with the Philippians, in contrast to the lack of them in the general profession? “For dogs have encompassed me; an assembly of evil-doers have surrounded me: they pierced my hands and my feet”, Psalm 22:16.
JT That sort of thing would now encompass the assembly, because the same elements that put Christ on the cross would put the lovers of Christ there. These dogs allude to persons without remorse or conscience, and it is impossible to help people who have no conscience. If a man has a conscience there is some hope of influencing him rightly, but without it you can do nothing with him. There is no question of trying to help a dog; you keep away from him — and also “evil workers”, and “the concision”.
Ques Does the apostle make way for the “excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord”?
JT That is what he was aiming at in these verses, to keep the assembly clear of these [p. 262] external foes.
FCH Does the expression in the prayer in chapter 1 bear on it — “in order that ye may be pure”?
JT Quite so. It has often been pointed out that the concision is only a parody of the real thing; it is a profession that I am going in for some cutting off, but I do not go the whole way. There was some kind of cutting, but it did not go all the way; it was not circumcision.
Ques Is circumcision brought in here to maintain the saints in their heavenly character?
JT Quite so; it refers to a heavenly people properly. As a type, it came in in Genesis 17. It alludes to a heavenly people, and it was accepted. Abraham circumcised all that were in his house “that same day”. It was the day in which God had broken off the conversation with Abraham, and had gone up. That is, typically at least, Abraham apprehended the mind of God, and he immediately applied circumcision to himself and every male in his house — that very day. Then the next chapter brings in the significance of the position: he gets a heavenly visitation — God Himself comes back to him. It is to show that the link between Him and Abraham should not be after the flesh at all — that is cut off. “We are the circumcision” refers to a heavenly people, those who carry on the service of God. Those dogs and people of the concision, no doubt, could talk about the service of God, too. The old system was still at Jerusalem, and carried on there as heretofore, but Paul says, “we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and boast in Christ Jesus, and do not trust in flesh” — who “worship”: the idea of the divine service according to Hebrews, the public service of God carried on in a spiritual way. True christians worship God; they carry on the service by the Spirit, boast in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
ASL Does he use the word “concision” as a term [p. 263] of reproach? He would not honour those folk with being the circumcision.
JT It brings out the position today, as it was then. Of course, the allusion would be to judaism, the old system carrying on the so-called service of God, but the apostle could point to persons who were carrying it on really. It is not here merely that doctrinally or theoretically there is such a thing, but that we are doing it; it is a question of what is going on. John’s ministry would suggest it, as the Lord said, “Come and see”, John 1:39. If any one be genuinely affected by God, he will not be content with what is said or written, but will want to see the thing. What is this service of God? It is current today. What can be called the service or worship of God, what is for God is going on, and it is an important point for all christians to come and see it. That is what should be before us. Is there anything acceptable to God that people can see?
Ques So you would invite such a person to the morning meeting?
JT If any one is really exercised of God, the assembly is the place for him — to see what goes on there. We need not be afraid; let them come; “we are the circumcision”, the apostle says. The other is not the real thing; there is some show of being of God, but it is not the real thing at all. Yet the real circumcision exists; those who go the whole way, and it is a great challenge to us in our meetings, whether we do go the whole way.
ASL So true circumcision being of God, Paul does not set it aside, but it has its reality with spiritual christians.
FI Is it the service of God carried on in the power of the Spirit apart from the flesh?
JT That is the thing. If exercised souls come into our meetings, what do they see? If we go the whole way in our exercises as to the assembly, judging ourselves as we meet together, the worship of God is [p. 264] there; the Spirit of God is there. One great feature of the tabernacle was the anointing — every part was anointed, and, as set up, all was functioning. In the antitype, the assembly, what a spectacle this is for anyone to see! That is what is in mind: “we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and boast in Christ Jesus, and do not trust in flesh”.
JTS Would the concision be seen in king Saul saving the best of the flocks, and cutting off the worst?
JT It is that sort of thing. He saved the best and devoted the worst for destruction.
Ques I would like to ask whether Paul’s thought here as to a worshipping company is bringing into view what the Lord said to the woman in John 4:23: “the hour is coming and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth”?
JT It is. John uses a somewhat different word for the service; he uses a word for worship that involves more personal affection, but it is the same idea. The service of God is carried on in the power of the Spirit.
Rem As it was in Solomon’s day, the queen of Sheba came and actually saw the thing.
JT Yes, it was going on; she saw the ascent by which he went up to the house of Jehovah, and that evidently is what most affected her.
ASL Do you regard the evil workers as outside?
JT I do. The apostle is not insinuating that there are any of those elements in Philippi. The meeting there is immune so far from those elements, but they are in danger of them, the terrible judaising agents that dogged the service of the apostle from the very outset, which he speaks so strongly about, particularly in this chapter.
WSS In connection with your remark as to going the whole way, I take it that the Galatians and Colossians did not go the whole way, but that the acceptance of the cross, at least in measure, preserved them at [p. 265] Philippi, and hence there was the possibility of the service of God there.
JT Quite so. The Galatians were “stopped”. Satan would stop the work of God, and ministry is used to watch over it and prevent this. That was the intent in the Galatian epistle, that the elements that were stopping the work of God should be exposed and refused.
WCG If we go the whole way, do we reach the “calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”?
JT That is what we come to. What we shall see as we proceed is the great energy in this christian, because whilst it is the apostle speaking here, it is a christian. This epistle is to open up christianity to us, and it is exemplified in one man, and happily to a great extent in the company at Philippi. Christianity was there, and what is in mind is to improve on what is there. Conditions at Philippi were delightful, and the apostle is unstinted in the way he speaks of them and what they were to him. But now he calls attention to himself in this chapter as a christian in his inward objective and outlook and energy. In chapter 1 he calls attention to his circumstances in Rome, what he was in them under the government of God. In chapter 4 he says, “as to me I have learnt in those circumstances in which I am, to be satisfied in myself”, Philippians 4:11. He calls attention to himself in his circumstances in relation to the government of God, but now he is dealing with his inward motives, objective and energy, so that we have set out in this chapter a model in this respect. It is a christian that is presented to us here. If he says “we are the circumcision”, he means christians characteristically. As regards himself, he goes on to speak of what he could boast in, as men after the flesh boast, and he says, I count them all but loss and filth. And why? Because of what is superior. It is no mere sentiment; it is a man in the possession of what is infinitely superior, and the mighty energy that operated [p. 266] in him to reach forward to the full thought of God for him. That is what you get here, and so we have the standard for christians as to their inward motives and objectives, the giving up of all that interferes with that, so that we might reach what we are apprehended for: “the prize”, as he says, “of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”.
Ques Would what the apostle says in this part indicate that he was in the gain of what the Lord Jesus said in Mark 8:34: “Whoever desires to come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross and follow me”?
JT That is the idea, only it is the disciples’ own cross there.
JHT Is Paul in this chapter showing himself to be in accord with his prayer for them in verse 10 of chapter 1, in connection with the things that are more excellent?
JT You have in mind that one should be in accord with what he may present to others, to show that it is really governing himself. What is presented here is marked by excellency: “the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord”.
EuR Is it not perhaps more easy to suffer the loss of all things at the commencement of the course than to be maintained in this energy that would count all but filth?
JT That is what we may see, the way the apostle was sustained throughout. The figure he uses in the body of the chapter is that of an athlete stretching out in skilled energy, energy under control, not beating the air. So he is attaining the best results in himself, and this raises the whole question as to what one is inwardly, as to whether one has made an analysis of himself inwardly, and how he is looking at himself as in this great matter, whether all the organs are under control, so that there is no wasted energy. You are [p. 267] aiming at the greatest goal and you will not allow anything to hinder.
HES Is the idea that we should be satisfied with nothing short of perfection? He speaks of completeness at the beginning of the epistle, and perfection in this part.
JT Yes. He deals first in his specific reckoning with righteousness. After going over the things he could boast in, he says, “what things were gain to me these I counted, on account of Christ, loss. But surely I count also all things to be loss on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, on account of whom I have suffered the loss of all, and count them to be filth, that I may gain Christ; and that I may be found in him, not having my righteousness, which would be on the principle of law, but that which is by faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God through faith, to know him and the power of his resurrection”. In this great effort that he has entered upon — for it is an effort and he admits he has not reached the goal yet — he brings in righteousness as one of the things that had a great place in his mind, that he should have the righteousness of God, and how it is acquired. It is his effort to attain the heavenly thing as a real christian, prizing everything that is proper to a christian, from the very foundation upwards.
Ques He speaks much of counting — what is in his mind?
JT It shows that he is a man that reckons accurately. He has a full understanding of what he is in his moral being, and he reckons things accurately. But this question of righteousness is most important, because to attempt to go further without this matter settled, without being clear in our souls as to this kind of righteousness and how it is acquired, is only futile.
EuR Is there any difference between righteousness here, and in 2 Corinthians 5:21 — “that we might become God’s righteousness in him”?
JT Here it is “not having my righteousness ... but that which is by faith”; it is the righteousness that we have in Romans. It is having the thing; not being made it. In 2 Corinthians we are made it.
FSM Would you say that verse 10 comprises true spiritual desire that should govern us throughout our journey? There are three thoughts, “to know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings”. I suppose if any man on earth at that moment knew Christ, it was Paul, and yet he could desire to know Him.
JT It reminds us that we can never fully compass Christ. No one knew Him better, yet he tells us the great desire of his heart was that he might know Him, and he groups the other things with it, “to know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being conformed to his death, if any way I arrive at the resurrection from among the dead”. It is the richness of this grouping that impresses one. Those four thoughts suggest uniformity; that I am not developed on one point only. I believe many pursue one line, right in itself, but uniformity of growth is the great idea in Scripture.
Ques Would “the fellowship of his sufferings” be calculated to keep us in true balance?
JT Yes. It is first, the kind of righteousness as Romans opens it up, that which is of God; and how it is acquired, that is, by faith. Then, “the fellowship of his sufferings” and “being conformed to his death”, would be the public effect. Then, “if any way I arrive at the resurrection from among the dead”. That is over Jordan, not the public side of our position. Literally it is seen only in one Person, that is Christ, but the arrival at it in spiritual apprehension and realisation is what he is aiming at. It is open to us all to taste of that realm — by the power that dwelleth in us.
HD'AC It is resurrection from among the dead.
JT It takes you out of the realm [p. 269] of the dead.
JTS Is there something of that with the apostle in 2 Corinthians? He presents himself as knowing something of the power of resurrection, of bearing about in his body the “dying of Jesus”, and then, as knowing himself as a “man in Christ”.
JT The second epistle contemplates a very great advance in the apostle’s experience. He could hardly have written the second epistle were it not for those experiences, that he was nigh unto death, but God who raises the dead came in and delivered him from so great a death. He is qualified thus to write such a feeling letter as compared with the first one.
EJMcB Paul here is not concerned about his actual resurrection, because that was a certainty, but that he might arrive at it now in spiritual history.
JT Quite so. We shall certainly all arrive at it, every one that is “Christ’s at his coming”, but the point is to arrive at it now.
WCG Is that the prize spoken of in verse 14?
JT Verse 13 begins, “Brethren, I do not count to have got possession myself; but one thing — forgetting the things behind, and stretching out to the things before, I pursue, looking towards the goal, for the prize of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”. The goal goes beyond the resurrection from among the dead; it is the heavenly position.
HES Why does the apostle speak of not having reached perfection, and then say in verse 15: “As many therefore as are perfect, let us be thus minded”?
JT We should go back to verse 12: “Not that I have already obtained the prize, or am already perfected; but I pursue ...” “Not that I have already obtained” is the thought in his mind, that he had not reached the end in view, “or am already perfected”; that is, he has not come to the full thought of God about him, “but I pursue, if also I may get possession of it, seeing that also I have been taken possession of by Christ Jesus”.
[p. 270] That is the general thought in his mind. And then in verse 15, “As many therefore as are perfect, let us be thus minded”. What is meant there is just full growth. It is not the perfecting he mentions in verse 12. It is not the full and absolute thought of God in the earlier verse. There is what is called perfection in Scripture, meaning that one is fully developed; there may be other things to be reached, but he is classified as one fully developed, and as such we take account of one another and move together; as it says, “Be imitators all together of me, brethren, and fix your eyes on those walking thus as you have us for a model”. He represented full manhood in his walk.
JJ Do you think the passage in 2 Timothy 4 would show that the desire of his heart had been reached? “For I am already being poured out, and the time of my release is come. I have combated the good combat, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth the crown of righteousness is laid up for me”. Would that be subsequent to that which we have here?
JT It would. He is alluding there to his path of responsibility and service, but here he is alluding to “the calling on high” — the full thought of God, according to His purpose.
MWB Would you say a word as to the force of “if any way”, or, if by any means, “I arrive at the resurrection from among the dead”? I am not quite clear as to this having an exclusively moral aspect, whether there was in the apostle’s mind this thought also, that if necessary he would even go through death itself.
JT It seems to me it is a question of what he would reach in this setting; that is, he speaks about the righteousness of God, the fellowship of Christ’s sufferings, and being conformed to His death. They are the things that are in his mind, and then he says, “if any way I arrive at the resurrection from among the dead”. The force of it is in keeping with what he has been [p. 271] saying, the energy going on in his soul to realise these things during the period of his life here.
EuR Was Caleb in this spirit all through the wilderness, and did he in the power of developed strength take possession of the prize, so to speak?
JT He had it in his mind. There had been something definitely communicated to him by Moses, and as in Canaan, he claimed it. I think that illustrates the energy we are speaking of: “I am still this day strong, as in the day that Moses sent me: as my strength was then, even so is my strength now”, Joshua 14:11. “I arrive”, implies energy; it is the end I have before me. It is not “the goal”, which goes on beyond resurrection to what Christ is now in heavenly glory. That is the end he has in mind — Christ has apprehended me for something, and I want to know and reach that.
WB-w Is the prize, the “calling on high”?
JT Yes, “stretching out to the things before, I pursue, looking towards the goal”. It is an athletic allusion; the great objective is the goal. Then he says, “for the prize” — because the goal has to be reached before the prize is obtained — “the prize of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”. You must get the thought of the goal, that there is a definite mark before you, and the prize is after that. These things are of great reality in the exercises of a spiritual man.
HD'AC Do you think Paul himself illustrates what you might call “any way” (verse 11)? He was let down in a basket; that was a burial basket. Now, he sought the experience of resurrection from among the dead.
JT Quite. “Any way” would indicate the prominence this thought had with him. It is as if he must reach it.
AAE Do you understand “conformed to his death” to be entirely moral?
JT I do.
HD'[p. 272] AC The goal was what he kept in view, and then the prize would be the result.
JT That is the idea. The prize is in my heart, but as running, my eyes are on the goal, and I have to reach that point.
WCG Does the first clause of verse 9 refer to the order of manhood, “that I may be found in him”?
JT I suppose the “in” there is status, the position in which he is to be. It is a preposition that involves status and certain power in it, so that it precludes all that is natural.
Ques Verse 15 says “let us be thus minded”. Does that stand in connection with what we have had in this chapter and distinct from “this mind” in chapter 2?
JT That is right. In chapter 2 it is the descending mind. In this verse it is the mind characterising those who are perfect. “As many therefore as are perfect, let us be thus minded; and if ye are any otherwise minded, this also God shall reveal to you”. That is, there may be differences — although the early part of the epistle would show that there need not be — in the persons thus classified, but God will reveal what is not clearly seen. Let us keep a united front, and God will reveal anything wanting; God is operating to that end.
Ques Why does the apostle present here the thought of being an imitator “of me”, and in Corinthians being an imitator of him as he also was of Christ.
JT I suppose he needed to bring in Christ at Corinth, where they would not accept him so readily; but where brethren are perfect they will more quickly recognise what a man Paul was.
WH You made a remark recently with regard to the teacher and the scholar (1 Chronicles 25), that there is to be mutual feeling, preventing divergence, that all should move together.
JT That will be so if love is operative. There may be differences, but among the perfect those things are left. There is no need to press a thing; God will [p. 273] bring it out; but we are not, of course, to be latitudinarians, yet you have to leave many things with God and move together as “perfect” ones.
Ques Would it be right to say with regard to that thought of perfection, that Paul was perfect as to his object, but as to attainment he was not already perfected?
JT He was a fully developed christian, the Philippians also generally so. This perfection really underlies assembly functions.
SJBC The perfect ones would be those who are matured in the things of God and have reached manhood in christianity. It looks as if we have three minds; those who are “thus minded” — the perfect ones; and those who are “otherwise minded” — those backward; and those “who mind earthly things” — unconverted persons, whose end is destruction!
EuR Would the thought of our commonwealth tend to unify us?
JT It helps greatly, as drawing us away from what affects us naturally. It is our commonwealth.