LEADERSHIP AND THOSE LED
LEADERSHIP AND THOSE LED
JT The subject in mind is leadership, not only to dwell on the leaders of God’s people, but also God’s people as led, and this book is aptly fitted to help us on this point, for the whole position of the testimony in this book is made to hinge on those who were put forward as leaders. It is said that God was with each judge.
The book begins with putting Judah forward; he occupies the early part of it, the outstanding leader from Judah being Othniel, son of Kenaz, as we read in chapter 3. It is said that the Spirit of the Lord came upon him, so that the thought of leadership in this book requires the Spirit; it contemplates men who are spiritual. In view of the leadership of Israel after Moses, Jehovah said of Joshua, “a man in whom is the Spirit”, Numbers 27: 18. And if leadership is to be successful, spirituality must exist in some measure, at least, in those who are led. This chapter helps particularly, for it shows how those who are led are spiritual, that is, they are those who surrender the mere natural enjoyment of God’s creatures with a view to the testimony. They partake of God’s creatures, but partake of them not merely for satisfaction, but in order to take part in the testimony. Another thought that appears in this book is that leaders led, and the idea of leading is peculiarly in Gideon, because it is not a question of what he said, but of what he did. It says here, “it shall be that, as I do, so shall ye do”, hence spiritual leadership is in what the person does, as Acts 1 says of the Lord Jesus — “Jesus began both to do and to teach”. Acts being the great book of precedent and exemplification of the truth in the leaders, this is significant.
PL To Timothy the apostle says, “use a little wine on account of thy stomach and thy frequent illnesses”.
[p. 479] Do we have a leader in Paul, spiritual in his ways in Christ, but also recognising the creatures of God: that these are to be subordinated to the needs of the believer in his conflict for the testimony?
JT Very good — “a little”. Jacob directs his sons to take to Joseph a little of this and a little of that (Genesis 43: 11). He keeps within limitations. A little is prescribed by the great servant for a young man, Timothy, but evidently he was capable of restraining himself.
PL So Jonathan with the honey on the end of his staff, he held the mercies of God only to strengthen him the more on the battlefield.
JT The means of acquiring it would indicate that the quantity used was little. Jonathan says, “With the end of the staff which is in my hand I tasted a little honey”.
CHH Is the point in what is used?
JT Quite so. Every creature of God is good and to be received with thanksgiving. They are sanctified by the word of God and prayer; the word “little” implies that you are able to control yourself in what you use, and you use it wisely and for your immediate help as in the testimony. Here the test is severe, and only three hundred out of ten thousand stood it. Twenty-two thousand had already failed in an easier test.
EWC Would you say that both the battle and the supply are, in that way, thought of by these selected ones?
JT Everything is carefully foreseen and arranged by God in view of leadership, and our object now is to see what leadership is according to God, and the relation as to the intelligence between the leaders and those they lead. We cannot expect the latter to be anything more than those who lead them, and hence the importance of the exemplification of the truth in those who minister it. Undoubtedly the vessels are prepared beforehand, even as to ancestry, birth, environment, and physical constitution. All that is prearranged. You could not conceive for a moment that God would put gift or ability to lead [p. 480] His people in one not prepared in all that was necessary for the vessel beforehand. So we get with Paul — an elect vessel unto me, the Lord says. When we come to Gideon it is said that Jehovah looked on him, as if there was a foreshadowing of Christ, “Jehovah looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might”, chapter 6: 14.
EBMcC Did he qualify through his lowliness, that he was little in his own eyes? He did not feel equal to what God was about to put upon him, but he was prepared for it.
JT That is how the facts stand. He was occupied, as we have often remarked, in threshing wheat, and doing so in small and awkward quarters, that is in the winepress, indicating that he was one who could accommodate himself to the circumstances afforded, whatever they might be in the service of God.
WSS His estimate of himself was very small. He speaks of his thousand being the poorest in Manasseh and he the least in his father’s house.
JT Excellent qualification in those whom God would use in His service.
PL Does it suggest the leader’s right outlook, that all the fruit of conflict is to be returned in praise to God?
JT Yes. He discerns, before he is called into service, the trend of the enemy’s workings and is doing what he can to nullify the enemy’s efforts. The Midianites were destroying the food, and he was securing it from them.
PL So that a feature of leadership is to eliminate all side issues and concentrate on the vital question.
Rem Is the leader governed by what Jehovah said to him? When Gideon said, “wherewith shall I save Israel?” Jehovah said, “I will certainly be with thee”, and so Gideon on his own initiative decided as to the manner in which he would act.
JT Quite so, and whilst he, felt himself weak and small, God says, “Go in this thy might”. That is the point, there was one there that God could use.
[p. 481] EBMcC He qualified in that way for selection, and thus was qualified to select others, God giving this means into his hand — the test in our chapter.
JT He would be able to do what was to be done “as one man”. That is the principle of unity, as you might say, the principle of all right collective action, that what he did would be the result of the unified relation between himself and those he led. What was done thus was, as it were, by one man.
PL So he would be “the man of Israel” in the Midianite’s dream, not the man of Manasseh, his own tribe.
JT That is right, that is the title he gets. The passage reads, “And his fellow answered and said, This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, the man of Israel: God hath given into his hand Midian and all the host” (verse 14). This shows how pronounced is the idea of “the man”, one divinely selected; and as we carry that into the New Testament, it is Christ.
PL He has to carry out what belongs to the whole of Israel, at a time when those available are reduced to three hundred men. Is this very much the remnant position of these days?
JT That is the thought, and one would like particularly to show the relation between the leaders and the led, as in Christ, who is, of course, the Leader of His people, the one Man. He uses many, but the idea is to see that what is done is done by Him, it is what Jesus began to do; Acts begins there; a great book of precedents and examples of service, beginning with the thought of “which Jesus began both to do and to teach”. Doing comes before the teaching.
ESW Is that why the Lord Jesus selected twelve particularly, that they might be able to lead the spiritual, and thus enter into leadership?
JT I think so. There was the principle of selection, first of twelve, and then, less formally, of three for more [p. 482] spiritual service, which is to govern all, so that the whole apostolic number should be in accord with Christ. It would be as “one man”, for Christ really was doing all, but, as ascended, acting through them. Scripture says, “he has preached the glad tidings of peace to you who were afar off, and ... to those who were nigh”. The preaching was His.
FWW What are we to understand by the mode of selection in our chapter?
JT I think it is a test as to how we use God’s creatures, whether we use them for the sake of support in the testimony, or whether we use them as a matter of enjoyment; whether the man, having means, acquired maybe by his own ability, or left to him, whether he holds all that for his own pleasure, or uses it to promote the testimony. The test was how the water was appropriated. The three hundred took it “as a dog lappeth”. I suppose it would be a way opposite to the etiquette of the world, the ordinary self-satisfying way of partaking of God’s creatures. This way would be despised by the cultured of the world.
FWW Would you apply the principle of selection, as to invitations, for such meetings as we have just had?
JT Yes; there is nothing more marked in Scripture than the thought of selection. It is a great principle with God, and I believe it is carried out rightly in the way of invitations at a time like this, because you have to act wisely, and make the occasion such as is most likely to be useful. Large numbers may be in the way, and this chapter, I think, is a warning that we should not have numbers as a leading thought; although God will have His number and a great number, but what He will have will not be the result of promiscuous gathering; He will have just what He elected. That will involve quality, for all are to be like Christ. What is seen here is not sovereign selection, but the persons qualified by the evidence — typically — of spirituality. Jehovah says to Gideon, “Still the people are many; bring them down to the [p. 483] water, and I will try them for thee there”. He does not give any idea as to how He will do it. We have to see what God is doing. A most interesting thing in seeking to serve and lead the Lord’s people in the right way is to watch what God is doing. He works with those whom He puts forward to lead His people. It is a question of water here, what they would need, a very ordinary thing, but God uses it, making the manner of the appropriation of it the test.
EEL Is there a state necessary for God to commit Himself to?
JT That is what comes out. God is to do the testing. We are told of Him that He sits as a Refiner, watching those being tested. We are to learn from God as to this. He does not disclose to Gideon how He will do it. He says, “it shall be, that of whom I shall say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I shall say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go. And he brought down the people to the water; and Jehovah said to Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down on his knees to drink. And the number of them that lapped, with their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men; and all the rest of the people bowed down on their knees to drink water”. That is, Gideon had to wait and see what God would do.
CHH Does that imply the servant must have spiritual sensitiveness in waiting on God?
JT Yes. You can understand how Gideon would be in danger of trusting in the arm of the flesh, having primarily such a large army. It would tend to elate his flesh; and we are all capable of that, with large numbers of brethren and meetings in fellowship. It does not, however, say Gideon was affected in that way, nor is it indicated that Jehovah regarded him as in that danger. He says, “lest Israel vaunt themselves against me,
[p. 484] saying, Mine own hand hath saved me”. He also says, “I will try them for thee”. He is acting with Gideon. Thus God honours His servants, accrediting them with His own feelings. The first test is as to fear, as to how much courage the saints have — those nominally in the testimony and in the conflict. Here twenty-two thousand went back.
EEL What would you say about Gideon’s repeated desire for signs for assurance? Zacharias inquired how he was to know, and the angel did not approve of this, but Gideon’s request for signs was approved of.
JT Zacharias prayed for something and when God sent the word that it would come about, he did not believe it. It should rebuke us, that when we get our prayers answered, we are surprised. Here I think the desire for signs is weakness of faith, but God honours the faith that was there. Gideon needed to be assured, so God gives him the signs he asks for. The sign spoken of in our chapter was proposed by Jehovah. “Go thou with Phurah thy servant down to the camp; and thou shalt hear what they say”, verse 10. It was God’s proposal, which is very touching, for God knew the measure of His servant. He knew Gideon had faith and courage, but he needed this sign, and he got it. I do not know that any of us can go on without this gracious consideration. God knows our measure and considers for us, and comes down to where we are so that we might be assured in going on with the conflict.
PL On a later battlefield we have the Lord speaking by night to Paul, and saying, “Fear not, but speak and be not silent; because I am with thee, and no one shall set upon thee to injure thee; because I have much people in this city”, Acts 18: 9, 10. Is that the Lord graciously succouring the apostle?
JT Yes. He took account of Paul in that way as entering on the great service at Corinth. This proposal of Jehovah’s, to do the testing Himself, is very solemn, both for those who are leading and for those who are led.
ESW Are we being constantly tested as to this, day by day?
JT That is how it works out. If God is doing it, it is a constant matter, and those serving His people are to have their eyes alert to see what God is doing, what He is effecting in His people.
PL Would you say that this reducing process is illustrated in John 6: “Unless ye shall have eaten the flesh of the Son of man, and drunk his blood, ye have no life in yourselves”? The chapter begins with a great crowd, but in the end you have what corresponds with the three hundred, personified in Peter; he says, “Lord, to whom shall we go?” Have you the led there?
JT Yes. That chapter is a supreme test, the Lord’s teaching as to His flesh being truly food, His blood truly drink. “Many therefore of his disciples having heard it said, This word is hard; who can hear it?” also “many of his disciples went away back and walked no more with him”. Thus the Lord’s inquiry, “Will ye also go away?” Peter’s reply shows the apostles stood the test.
JCS Is bowing down on the knees to drink suggestive of persons actuated by natural appetite?
JT That is what is meant, and leaning on natural support — resting on their knees — and not on faith. The others do not bow down, but lap with their hands to their mouths. They would take just sufficient to refresh them, and then go on.
Rem It is a very humbling thing to go out to serve the Lord, and then turn back to one’s own place.
JT Very humbling. You can picture the scene — twenty-two thousand men turning back! What a scene that was! — turning back as acknowledging that they were lacking in courage. They had not heart enough to go forward and sacrifice for the testimony. And then nine thousand seven hundred going back as [p. 486] unable to appropriate the creatures of God on the principle of faith.
CHH We see by this process the strengthening of the position instead of any weakening.
JT Yes. As coming to the idea of one man, that is the led are being brought into accord with the leader, and I think that is the idea, it is one man, all being under Christ. Thus it is what He is doing.
CHH Are the moral and spiritual qualities seen in the leader, also in those led?
JT Yes. The three hundred do as Gideon does, they are near him and act as he acts.
PL I was thinking of Mark in this connection in 2 Timothy, would you say that he was brought in with the three hundred? It says, “Take Mark, and bring him with thyself, for he is serviceable to me for ministry”, 2 Timothy 4: 11.
JT Yes; having at first failed, as governed by the natural, he comes into the line of true service. His gospel shows he came into what marked the three hundred.
JCS “Look on me, and do likewise”. Is that the language of a leader?
JT Exactly. The idea is not simply what I am saying; we may be able to say good things, but what marks me in the conflict?
JCS So Paul could put himself forward on that line as a model.
JT The New Testament relative to this passage is 2 Corinthians 4. There Paul is set before the Corinthians as a true leader. In him is seen the life of Jesus; it is the one man, that is the idea that governs christianity, not ten thousand instructors, but one man. “I have espoused you unto one man”, so Paul says of himself that he was always delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake; he bore about in his body the dying of Jesus, that the life of Jesus might be manifested in his body; and he was always delivered to death to that end. He had in his heart the [p. 487] precious treasure of the light of God shining in the face of Jesus, and as the vessel was broken, it shone out all the more. The connection between the passages is very apparent.
Ques Would you say we have this in earthen vessels?
JT Quite so. Like the torches within pitchers in the hands of Gideon’s men.
WHW Is there a parallel case in the way the apostle worked among the Corinthians? He took up the work of a tent-maker and laboured with his hands so as not to be chargeable to anyone.
JT His point was that the power of Christ should be there, Christ speaking in him; it was Christ, the one Man.
JCS Are those who assume leadership often robbed of their power by going down on their knees, as it were, to things here?
JT I think so, and they do not set a good example to others. The great thought is to get the led in accord with the leader, the one man. The life of Jesus is the garb in which the service is carried on.
WSS Gideon’s qualities as a leader come into evidence as he deals with Ephraim, chapter 8: 1 - 3. The benefit of the leadership is universal.
JT Just so. It shows you how you conciliate others and bring them on to the side of the truth.
JJJ This is the test of self-denial, which we may be equal to at the first, but as we grow older we tend to lapse back to self-indulgence.
JT Yes. We make excuse for old age, etc. It is said of Moses that his natural force was not abated, and the same of Caleb. The strength of Caleb was as it was in his youth, to go out and to come in.
EBMcC This material is really delivered unto death, that the power of God might be manifested in the three hundred, so they took courage and character from the leading of [p. 488] Gideon.
JT It is like one man, they are actuated by him, a remarkable figure, and, as already remarked, the book of Acts is intended to convey that to us. However many servants there may be, all is the work of Christ. As with Peter and Paul: Peter says, “going he preached to the spirits which are in prison”, 1 Peter 3: 19. Christ is the Preacher. Paul says, “coming, he has preached the glad tidings of peace to you who were afar off”, Ephesians 2: 17. Peter says “going”; Paul says “coming”.
SHB It is what Christ has done through him, “from Jerusalem, and in a circuit round to Illyricum”, Romans 15: 19.
Rem As regards leadership, Paul could say to the Philippians, “What ye have ... heard, and seen in me, these things do”, Philippians 4: 9.
Ques Is it the same thought in John 13 — the Lord washing His disciples’ feet?
JT Yes. The Lord says, “Do ye know what I have done to you?” It is the continuation of Christ.
JCS Is the thought of leadership a universal one and not merely local?
JT It may work out locally, but its bearing is general. Christ is exalted as Leader (Acts 5: 31), and His leadership is reflected now in others whom He raises up (see Hebrews 13: 7, 17).
SHB Does the sovereignty of God come in?
JT You may be sure that God foresaw what would happen, and how delightful it must have been to Him to see three hundred emerging out of this test. I do not know of anything more interesting than to look into Scripture and see what is pleasing to God. The creation represents potentialities, what God effected in the way of fundamental or basic things, but Genesis 2 involves the fulness of that, that is the glory coming out. He said that what He did, as seen in Genesis 1, was very good, but in chapter 2 it is the working out of that, the fulness of it, so that you have what is delightful to God: the creation of man in the sense of being formed, the garden, the river,
[p. 489] and the animals coming to Adam, and Eve being built and presented to Adam. God is pleased with all that, as the working out of potentialities, and that is going on all the time. History in this sense is constantly being made in heaven, as God’s pleasure is worked out tangibly. The test in our chapter, to bring out the desired qualities in these three hundred, is in keeping with this; God put them there. The basic thought was there, but it is the working out of this in the test that is so pleasing to God. The fulness of the earth is the outcome of the basic thought. There was fruitfulness inherent in the earth. As it came forth from the waters, life was there.
DS Justification for this selection is seen in the fact that the three hundred were prepared to follow the matter to its conclusion.
JT Yes. “The number of them that lapped, with their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men; and all the rest of the people bowed down on their knees to drink water”. There they are, under reproach spiritually; but Jehovah said to Gideon, “By the three hundred men that lapped will I save you, and give Midian into thy hand; and let all the people go every man to his place. And they took the victuals of the people in their hand, and their trumpets; and all the men of Israel he sent away, every man to his tent, but retained the three hundred men”. The first lot went back. Now this nine thousand seven hundred men are sent away to their tents. How shameful that was! But the three hundred are standing out under the eye of God as answering to His test.
CI What character is suggested in Midian?
JT They are related outwardly to the people of God, and they are destroying their food. They are very numerous. You see the people teeming out of the ‘churches’, and perhaps we want some show like that, but the three hundred suggest the opposite to mere numbers with God; with Him quality, that is, spirituality, is [p. 490] required.
Ques Would the test be universal?
JT Quite so; the primary number was comparatively large and the first test was simple, but this test was reserved, it was a secret matter. You would only see it as the persons are drinking the water, and God is there to apply it; He says, “I will try them for thee there”. As He said to Moses, “I will stand before thee there upon the rock”. That God was there is very solemn.
JRF These three hundred who lapped are of interest to God, because God’s things are paramount with them, rather than their own needs.
JT Yes. You may be sure that God would help them to do this. He knew they were capable of it, and so would help them.
JCS Speaking of leadership, do you think that where the leaders are carrying a hard, legal spirit, those who are led would be formed on the same line?
JT Yes. You will notice here that all the men of Israel (verse 8), were sent away, each to his tent, but the three hundred were retained. There is something very beautiful in that, the Lord taking on those who answer to His test.
EBMcC Special meetings would illustrate that the power of God is seen. Is not the great need, as the apostle had in mind, that the power of God might be evidenced and not the power of man?
JT That is what Paul said exactly, that the excellency of the power should be of God.
WHW Was the Lord thinking of what God had secured, when He said to His disciples, “Will ye also go away?”
JT I think so. It was Peter who answered, one of the twelve, one of a number that stood the test. Peter says, “Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast words of life eternal; and we have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God”. It is a past experience; “we have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God”. That is what is needed in the conflict. The Lord says, “Have not I chosen you the twelve? and of you one is a devil”. It is remarkable that this should be brought in, making it clear that Peter’s confession did not cover Judas.
WHW The land had rest forty years and Midian lifted up their heads no more; the wonderful result of these three hundred men was thus secured.
ESW Would you say this is pursuing a matter to its conclusion? We are frequently satisfied with a victory without pursuing the principle involved to its complete end.
JT Thus the enemy would rob us. One has seen it over and over again. God gives a victory, but the enemy is ready to rob us of the result, and that is where watchfulness is so much needed after a victory, that the ground gained may be consolidated.
Ques Our perspective is wrong sometimes. Here they say, “For Jehovah and for Gideon!” Is it not entirely a question of God’s rights?
JT It is right to say, “The sword of Jehovah and of Gideon”. It is Christ in figure. It says of Gideon, he divided the three hundred into three companies. Some of us have been speaking of the numeral three in the history of the testimony, in Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, and Joshua; and it is stamped on this incident: three hundred standing the test, and then the three hundred sub-divided into three companies. “He put a trumpet in every man’s hand, and empty pitchers, and torches within the pitchers. And he said to them, Look on me, and do likewise, behold, when I come to the extremity of the camp, it shall be that, as I do, so shall ye do. And when I blow with a trumpet, I and all that are with me, ye also shall blow the trumpets around the whole camp, and shall say, For Jehovah and for Gideon!” That is a form of words that has to be accepted as right. In what the apostle says [p. 492] in 2 Corinthians 4:1 think he means that it is a question of the dying of Jesus. He is their Leader, not Paul. Jesus is the Leader, and Paul was conformed to the life of Jesus. “Delivered unto death”, for Jesus was delivered unto death, and bearing about in his body the dying of Jesus was what marked Paul, so that the life of Jesus, as manifested in us, is the outcome of the acceptance of death. What is inside is light, as Paul says. It shines in our hearts for the shining forth of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. It is only as the pitchers are broken that this light shines.
CI In principle the life of Jesus would be seen in the leaders.
JT That is exactly the idea. So we are all brought to the thought of “one man”.
EBMcC We are told here what is going on in the other camp. Gideon went down with his servant and heard a whispering. This man did not think the camp was safe. He had an idea that something would happen.
JT Quite so. There is usually something in the enemy’s camp to disrupt his purpose. It is an ambush that God sets there. Where did this man get his thought? So with Rahab — God had her in Jericho. This man was the undoing of the Midianite position.
PL So those sent back by David to Jerusalem when Absalom reigned.
JT Yes. Even on the cross, God ordered the same thing, the undoing of the devil’s scheme is indicated in one man turning to Jesus: he says, “Remember me, Lord, when thou comest in thy kingdom”. It is in principle the disruption of the whole position.
PL Is it the same thing in the centurion declaring Him Son of God?
JT It is. The centurion said, “In very deed this man was just”. It was the disruption of the Roman Empire, for he was an officer representing that empire.
JRF Pilate says twice, “Take ye him”, while his wife says, Have nothing to do with this [p. 493] man.
JT In these instances the whole system of the world is disrupted: there is testimony to the power that will effect this.
PL Mordecai was sitting in the gate.
JT Exactly, and the queen was inside — again the disruption of the enemy’s designs. Haman was overthrown directly through Esther. In our chapter the overthrow of the whole Midianitish power is the outcome of what is heard in its camp. It says, “his fellow answered and said, This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, the man of Israel”. He was not loyal to his general! If some people were to hear what we are saying, they might say we are disloyal, but spiritually, what is going on today on God’s part is the disruption of the world. Then another thing that comes out is what is said by the man who heard the dream: “God hath given into his hand Midian and all the host”; then we have what God gets: “And it came to pass when Gideon heard the telling of the dream and its interpretation, that he worshipped”. What a fine triumph that was! As a result of what He places in the enemy’s camp God is being worshipped!
Ques Is that what God had secured before the victory?
JT Quite; God is getting something before the battle began.
Ques Would that be the power in which he went forward?
JT Yes. He is a worshipper.
Ques Does the barley bread suggest that one right thought in regard to Christ will upset the whole of the enemy’s position?
JT That is so. It represents something irregular, but it has reference to a whole thought. It is a “cake”. We must be governed by a whole thought.
PL Christendom is marked by partial thoughts, involving [p. 494] confusion.
JT Here it is a cake of barley bread. Barley seems to be the earliest cereal to come forward. Christ is to be apprehended as a whole thought. “Take, eat: this is my body”. That is a whole thought, not His flesh in Matthew and Mark, but His body. It is the one Man. The Lord’s supper is one Man, “my body”, it is a whole thought. The loaf in the Lord’s supper is Christ’s body in which He died, but it also symbolises the saints as His body. The dream is to strengthen Gideon. Then the light in the pitchers and the trumpets sounding out are public testimony. “If also our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in those that are lost”. There was the clear shining of light, and if it was veiled to anyone he was among “those that are lost”. That is what is seen in 2 Corinthians 4.