THE DISTINCTIVE SERVICE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THIS DISPENSATION
2 Corinthians 1: 21, 22; Romans 8: 14–17; 1 Corinthians 2: 9–16; Revelation 21: 9, 10
JSp I had an impression on Lord’s day as to the distinctive service of the Spirit in this dispensation. His own distinctive glory, as One who has been entrusted with everything for the divine pleasure, both to provide a bride for Christ, fit her with all the graces that are necessary, and also that the Father’s heart should be satisfied. I was greatly impressed by it.
The Spirit of course has taken up a subservient place in this dispensation, a lowly place, but that does not in any way obscure His glory but rather adds to it, that He is prepared to serve in this lowly way. I think one of the salient features at the end of the dispensation is the glory of the Person of the Spirit and the glory of His service. In the world to come and in the eternal day, there will be nothing except that which is formed by the Spirit and the whole universe will see the result of it. I wondered if we could, starting from this scripture in 2 Corinthians, see how He is working in the souls of men and women to bring about the divine result. “Now he that establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, is God, who also has sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts”. This covers a wide range of activities and they are all very blessed; the thought of the anointing, the sealing and the earnest. I wondered if in Romans it is how the truth is worked out in a practical way in a believer’s history. He has come through to something very substantial; there have been many exercises leading up to this but then you get the thought of “as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”. I think the anointing comes into this verse. They are persons who are marked by divine dignity, distinguished persons. These is emphatic, that is to say they can be pointed out, “these are sons of God”. So that the believer is set up here in divinely appointed dignity, a person of moral worth, and he can be taken account of. I thought the sealing would relate to the preciousness of the consciousness of divine ownership; the thought of the Spirit bearing witness with our spirit is akin to the sealing. That is to say the Spirit gives us a sense that we belong to Another; We have been brought into the divine family, and that is a very precious thing. So what is inward supports what is outward. I think it would be right to say that unless we have the inward blessedness of it, what is outward would soon fail. We would soon fail in our seeking to represent God in a world that has rejected Christ, unless we have the current enjoyment of being taken into favour and being given this dignity of being children of God. How precious it is to have been brought into the divine family and having a spirit of adoption “whereby we cry, Abba, Father”. I think that is an aspect of the Spirit’s service, He leads us into the great sphere of privilege. I thought 1 Corinthians would open that out. In chapter 1 you get the word of the cross which closes up one order of things, and the Spirit in chapter 2 opens the door to the great sphere of privilege. It says, “Things which eye has not seen, and ear not heard, and which have not come into man’s heart, which God has prepared for them that love him, but God has revealed to us by his Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God”. It is very precious to think that the cross of Christ has closed up one order and the Spirit opens up another order. I wondered if we might profitably be engaged with that. I thought in Revelation we could see the great result in the city, the great epitome of divine workmanship; the conclusion is wonderful and glorious and will be seen by a wondering universe. I just wondered if we might follow these thoughts through to see how the Spirit operates and the glory of His operations.
JS I think it is very attractive. The thing that occupied the Lord Jesus immediately when He went on high was that the Spirit should come, that the saints should have the Spirit.
I think it is a wonderful thing that we should have such a divine Person helping us.
JSp The disciples were occupied with times and seasons at the beginning of Acts. In Acts 1: 6 it says, They therefore, being come together, asked him saying, Lord, is it at this time that thou restorest the kingdom to Israel? And he said to them, It is not yours to know times or seasons, which the Father has placed in his own authority; but ye will receive power, the Holy Spirit having come upon you”. That is the restoration of the kingdom to Israel is held in abeyance. The immediate thing is the Holy Spirit, and His operations throughout the dispensation.
JS What you remarked about the inward consciousness that we have by the Spirit being necessary to support the outward character of the anointing is very important. It is not merely that something is put on us in the way of what would dignify us in the anointing, but there is the inward consciousness of what would go along with that so that we are sustained in the power of it, do you think?
JSp Well that is what I feel for myself. I ask myself often. How much do I enjoy these precious things that we are privileged to speak about? It says in 1 Corinthians 12: 13 that we have been given to drink of one Spirit, which implies enjoyment. It is not only that we are set up in divine dignity and imbued with power, which is a very necessary thing, but we are given the enjoyment of things. To my mind that seems to be a great need amongst us, the inward enjoyment of all that has come to us in the power of the Spirit.
MGW Is there something of that in the way that the apostle speaks in verse 21, “Now he that establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us”? I take it he is still including the saints, and “has sealed us”; he is very much in his heart’s affections along with the saints, in this. What would you say about that?
JSp Well, that is very fine. I think that would bear on what has been said. He is merging with the saints here. His service was necessary and he served in great power, but his joy was to merge with the saints. He saw them as anointed and sealed. The apostle delighted to bring in
the great truth of what was in God’s heart and mind.
MGW It is one of the things you feel as you read Paul, you are reading the writings of one who truly loved Christ and who truly loved the saints; especially when conditions were such as he had to deal with in these beloved brethren, but how he ever loved the saints. Is he yearning, do you think, to bring them into the wealth of all that lies for them in the Spirit, but only in the Spirit, not in man?
JSp Yes, he begins his first epistle with that, writing to them as “the assembly of God which is in Corinth”. It shows that from the divine side they came short of no gift. They were fully equipped to represent God here. He lifts them up to the level of their dignity in Christ, and then he has to bring in adjustment, but it is all to the end that they should answer to the divine thought. Thank God his second epistle shows that this was effective; he was able to open up the truth of the new covenant and the truth of reconciliation; he was able to open up the deep things of God.
TDS Do you think what you are bringing before us, established, anointed, sealed, brings in a settled disposition of God operating in us and would establish us? Do you think the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts would enable us to enter into the enjoyment anticipatively of what will be finally enjoyed in eternity?
JSp I think the earnest of the Spirit is the pledge of everything that is in relation to the glory of God. It says in Romans 5, “we boast in hope of the glory of God” (Romans 5: 2).
Think of what is opening up for us, what we touch in our gatherings, especially on Lord’s day morning! The Spirit gives us entrance into all these things. You can see how He is building things into the souls of the saints in order to establish them.
JCG The reference to “establishes us” is very interesting. Do you think it has a more practical effect? Their standing in Christ was assured before God, but being established in that would involve a practical expression of these features that the Spirit would work out in us. What do you say?
JSp I think that all depends on the Spirit. Establishing is a very positive thought. I think it is more than just divine light; I think that establishing involves that we are entering into the enjoyment of our links with Christ in glory. The Spirit is the enjoyment of that. Perhaps you had more in mind.
JCG I think what you say is helpful. It would identify the assurance of what the believer is practically and therefore becomes a testimony to that, do you think? It is not just where we are inwardly before God but where we are in expression, both among one another and then what the world can see as a testimony.
JSp Very good, so our testimony is a heavenly one. We had a word on Tuesday on, “such as the heavenly one, such also the heavenly ones”, 1 Corinthians 15: 48. I think it gives a heavenly tinge to our testimony. It is a wonderful thing that God has taken persons of a weak fallen race and imbued them with the Spirit so that they come out like Christ.
JAB The gift of the Spirit would be part of this establishing and anointing. It would clearly be very profitable to speak about the line that you have set on, but the first thing that I have to ask myself is, Am I aware of the action of the Holy Spirit in my life? How do you know that you have the Spirit? How did you know?
JSp Well, to put it simply, my first experience was power to deal with something that hitherto I had no power to deal with. That is a very important feature of the Spirit’s service. It says of the Lord that He was anointed with the Holy Spirit and with power (Acts 10: 38); these two things come together. For us it is the teaching of Romans. In Romans 7 it is the weakness of man struggling through what is adverse and what he finds in himself, but he gets through to something solid. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and of death”, Romans 8: 2. That is a great principle coming from a glorified Christ. Would you say more?
JAB I think that is good, so that in speaking in this reading of the service of the Spirit and being affected by that, part of that is our experience of the service of the Spirit to us. There is much more of course but do you think we have to start there and appreciate the glory and lowly service of the Spirit in the way that you have just spoken of Him?
JSp Well that is my exercise that we should have our eyes opened in a fresh way to see the glory of the fact that there is a divine Person here, having taken up His abode in us, we who are weak human vessels with a propensity to sin, but He is going to work something out in a very real way that is really going to be for the glory of God eternally.
CKR Would you say something on the establishment of “the Son of God, Jesus Christ … in him is the yea, and in him the amen”? Now that is immediately going to bring the focus of a Man who is the centre of another world, and does the Spirit operate from that standpoint and establish that and the atmosphere of that world in the souls of the saints and in the assembly?
JSp Well that is very good. I got an impression a while ago as to the yea and the amen. I thought the yea was the Lord coming out from God, and the amen was Him going back to God. He has established everything for God’s glory but for our blessing; everything really is bearing on the fact that there is a Man in glory, that all power has been given into His hand.
CKR Paul emphasises the mediatorial arrangement for this dispensation which is for the benefit of the saints and for the assembly.
JSp It is good to see that, the Spirit enters into that mediatorial arrangement. The Lord and the Spirit have taken up relative and subservient places to bring about something for the glory of God. I would like, especially the younger ones, to think of the magnitude of that. The more we go on the more we realise what we are in the way of weakness and failure, but you think of what the Spirit has committed Himself to.
GCMcK Does the anointing involve there is something pleasurable to God? Would that enter into the experimental side that we are speaking about so that we might realise, even without any pretensions that in us there is what is pleasing to God, that He can anoint?
JSp I am glad you mention that because to get the full thought of the anointing we have to see it in Christ. Now the Spirit came upon Him and He was marked out, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight”, Matthew 3: 17. Mark and Luke say, “Thou art my beloved Son”. That touches on what we are saying that not only was He marked out in a public way but there is the inward enjoyment of having divine approval. What do you think?
GCMcK Yes, I wondered that. It is not just a formal matter or an outward matter but it involves what is inward and I think that must involve some consciousness that God is pleased with us.
JSp Yes.
JS Does not the anointing have in mind how God is to be represented in service and testimony? It is good to see what the Spirit as presented in this way has in view. I was thinking of the Lord at His baptism, it is how matters came out in testimony.
JSp Very good, for immediately after that He preached in Nazareth. He was anointed to preach. Think of the power of that preaching. What a testimony was rendered there!
AMcK Persons who were anointed were set apart and they were dignified. There is no thought of that ever being lost or undone. The priests were anointed and the kings were anointed and maybe there is a suggestion of it with a healed leper.
JSp Yes, indeed. Well, to refer to the leper, it shows that God has in mind full recovery; he is recovered to the full status of the anointing. These things are interesting and the young people can look them up; the priests were anointed and the kings and the prophets were anointed. I think that shows how Christ is really the great pattern for the anointing, they all look forward to Christ. Then “as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”. These are persons who not only have the Spirit as a gift, but they are being actively led by the Spirit; they are marked out as distinguished persons.
AMcK So that we look round the company and see one another, even our local companies although they be small, they are all dignified.
JSp Very good; it is so important to hold that, as we look round the saints they are dignified persons, they are God’s anointed.
DBR Do you think there is an emphasis on who does it; it is God? That brings out the greatness of it. It is not something that is humanly conferred but it is something divine, a divine anointing.
JSp That is very fine. It links with Peter’s address in Acts, “Jesus who was of Nazareth—how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power”, Acts 10: 38. God placed His stamp of approval on Christ and that is a great pattern for the saints. Could you open up a little of what is in your mind?
DBR We just get the impression that this is God, just to bring out the wondrous fact that God is in it. I thought of what the brethren have been saying about the “in Christ” position. It really opens up a new order of man. It is not just ordinary man as we are, but it is “in Christ”. It is God dealing with that kind of man.
JSp That is why I read in 1 Corinthians 2 because “we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God”. It is another order of man and another world that is in view, and the Spirit is opening up that realm.
DBR Do you not think we need to realise that the Spirit is actually here? If we did have the sense that the Spirit is actually here it would change us. It is not just an influence but the Spirit is here as a divine Person, is that right?
JSp Yes indeed. It is so important to hold on to that because the power and presence of the Spirit has been relegated to an influence in Christendom, if it is acknowledged at all. A divine Person is here and has taken His abode in us. We should lay hold of that great truth. I suppose that was what the man saw when he came into the meeting in Corinth, “reporting that God is indeed amongst you”, 1 Corinthians 14: 25. He was there by the Spirit. These matters are so important to lay hold of.
MGW So why does he put it this way at the end of verse 22, “and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts”, not given the Spirit in our hearts but given the earnest? It is in our hearts too, not in our minds.
JSp Well, you could help us, but to my mind it carries the thought of the pledge of all that is to come. In Romans 5 it says, “the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit” (Romans 5: 5). He is going to fill it with glory. It is really the pledge of all that is to come. What do you say yourself about that?
MGW In our setting He is the earnest of our inheritance; this is the earnest in our hearts. I can be in no doubt about this, in all that I have in the Spirit, and it would help one to be subject. Some realisation of this would help us in what we talk about as self-judgment and keep us right, do you think, and fresh in our affections for the Lord?
JSp Well; as we are conscious of having the Spirit, it opens up tremendous possibilities. At the moment we are governed by our weak mortal frames, and we are very conscious of that, but think of the earnest of the Spirit. What is He going to do in our hearts? He has already shed abroad the love of God in them, and then His final service is in Romans 8: 11 when He will quicken our mortal bodies; there will be no hindrance then. The earnest of the Spirit is the pledge of these things.
GBG Do you think it is a right thing therefore to have confidence in the Spirit as to what He can do? We do not often speak on that line.
JSp Well just open up a little as to your thought.
GBG You have been speaking of the glory of the Spirit, what He can bring us into. We need to realise that He can actually bring us into the great things of God. Therefore we have confidence in Him, and if we have confidence in Him we turn to Him and ask Him for help.
JSp Well that is very fine. There is a verse that gives me great comfort, “the Spirit joins also its help to our weakness”, Romans 8: 26. The enemy would suggest that our weakness would disqualify us from these things, but then the Spirit is ready to help us in our weakness. There is also a reference to the love of the Spirit. So He is a divine Person with affections and care. You think of Him taking up His abode in a vessel of mercy who has been the recipient of divine grace, for whom the Lord has died and shed His blood. Think of the Spirit delighting to take up His abode in such a one and operating to bring about the divine end.
JS Do you think the varied ways that the Spirit is presented in Romans 8 is intended to enter into our experiences so that we acquire confidence in the Spirit? As we come to the point that you read, “for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”, do you think that is how we come consciously into sonship?
JSp I think that is the point in Romans 8. It is more than the light of sonship, it is the consciousness of sonship. I do not think we have the consciousness of anything apart from the Spirit. I think we even need the Spirit for the enjoyment of the forgiveness of sins. I think we need the Spirit for everything in Christianity.
JS I think it is very important to realise that. People may pin their faith on a verse of scripture for example, but really the enjoyment of everything is by the Spirit.
JSp Exactly.
JCG There are references in Romans 8 that emphasise God; the Spirit of God is brought in and then there are sons of God. Our brother’s reference to the source being in God is helpful for us, because that would give strength to the believer in this matter of confidence, the fact that God is our source, would you think?
JSp I think that is fine. I almost read the verse, but it might be good to bring it in here, “we do know that all things work together for good to those who love God”, Romans 8: 28; then he brings in the great line of blessing beginning from foreknowledge and predestination right through to glorification, which involves the Spirit, showing that there is no hiatus in that line; it goes right through to glorification which involves the present gift of the Spirit.
JCG Yes, that is very helpful. Do you not think that confidence comes from the sense we have that we are not left like things are in the world? They have confidence in politicians or have confidence in important sportsmen, but the believer’s confidence is established in something outside of this world.
JSp What has God taken us up for? What has He given us the Spirit for? I think these verses in Romans 8 which we have just referred to show us the great end in mind. It is very beautiful, “Because whom he has foreknown, he has also predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son”. We read in the Revelation of the collective side or the side relating to the assembly, but I think the great end in view for the individual believer is that we should be conformed to the image of His Son. These great links in this chain, from predestination to being called, justified and glorified, how wonderful they are! I just feel that we need, especially the younger ones amongst us, to get our sights lifted to see the great purpose of God.
DBR Would you encourage us to speak to the Spirit every day?
JSp Yes, indeed.
DBR It is a delightful thing to be able to speak to the Holy Spirit. I was thinking of what was said as to the practical side. We would encourage our young people to speak to the Holy Spirit. A difficulty might arise in your life, for instance, something might face you at school or at work, but you can speak to the Holy Spirit. Would that be how it works?
JSp Absolutely. If I may speak from my own experience, I need to speak to the Spirit every day; I could not get through without it. You speak to the Lord of course, you have liberty to do that, but speak to the Spirit in the little things that come in to test us.
DBR What our brother raises is important. You can see young people all around us become dependent on things; some become dependent on drugs, some become dependent on alcohol. Our dependence is on the Holy Spirit; that is the contrast, is it not?
JSp It is indeed. The contrast is seen in that scripture in 1 Corinthians “not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God”. The contrast is very clear cut there.
RG In John 14 the Lord says, the world does not know Him, but ye know Him, and Mr. Darby points out that is you are acquainted with Him. It is a personal twenty-four hour matter.
JSp It is indeed. Now how did they know Him when the Spirit had not come?
RG Well I suppose they saw the Spirit in Christ.
JSp Exactly. That is wonderful.
RG It is a wonderful thing to think that the same Spirit that was in the Lord when He was here, is the Spirit that has come from on high, and now is the earnest in our hearts.
JSp I am glad that you have referred to that, because I think that really expands what is in 1 Corinthians 2, something the world cannot receive. This is opening up something completely outside of the world; it is not only outside of the world but it is outside natural senses. What is spiritual is a very real thing. Sometimes when we are younger we think of it as some ethereal thing but it is very real. It opens up a world which is imbued by the Spirit of God. As the hymn says—
‘God’s love that world pervadeth,
There Thou dost all things fill’. (Hymn 259)
The Spirit is the opening into that world, is He not?
JS It is really interesting I think. It says in Luke’s gospel about the Lord Himself that He was led by the Spirit in the wilderness. It would be a help to us to be conformed to Christ in that way, do you think?
JSp Yes. It was a glory of His manhood that He did everything by the Spirit. It shows that while He was a divine Person, and there are times where He asserts His
Deity, but as a Man He did everything by the Spirit. So He is a Model and we should follow in His steps. I think it was wonderful grace that the Lord took that position to be a model for us.
GCMcK I am following what you have been saying about what is not known by man. It says, “which have not come into man’s heart”, so these blessed things that are opened up to us could not even have been conceived by man, they could not have had their origin there. How blessed to think of that. It is something that could only have had its origin in God’s heart.
JSp So man takes these things up and he tries to look into them with a human mind but how futile it is. The most intelligent and intellectual men cannot make any progress in this although they may try; but the simplest believer with the Spirit can enter into it, showing that that is a very wonderful thing.
CKR Say a word on revelation now for this is a sphere of revelation, “God has revealed to us by his Spirit”. Could you open that up; the Spirit has that very much in mind, the things that are revealed.
JSp Yes, indeed. Well while there is an initial revelation, there is the opening up of things that are already revealed also. What do you think?
CKR You get some sense that the secrets of divine affections and divine plans and divine counsels have been coming out, and now there is a vessel in which those who constitute that vessel can receive them, can explore and understand them, and come into the good of them.
JSp Yes, I think that is very helpful to point that out. From one point of view everything is out, the full revelation of God; there is nothing more to be revealed from that point of view, but within the sphere of revelation, the Spirit delights to bring things out. The Lord said, “he shall receive of mine and shall announce it to you”, John 16: 14. Would that bear on it do you think?
CKR I wondered if you could say a bit more. We have talked about the individual side of speaking to the Spirit, but the collective experience of the Holy Spirit is a very real matter.
JSp Well. Paul in this epistle is bringing out the light of the temple, “... ye are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?”, 1 Corinthians 3: 16. I think the temple is the saints viewed as an area where divine light comes and they are able to be governed by divine light. Again it elevates our meetings, we have meetings for prophetic ministry and we get some touches that the Spirit may bring in and we are all edified by it.
DBR Christianity exists according to the spirit of revelation. The brethren will know what Mr. Taylor said that the assembly lives by the latest communication from heaven. What would it be if there is not a living touch from heaven in this meeting today? So revelation comes into this meeting; it is by the Spirit. If it comes in it is by the Spirit, do you think?
JSp Would that run on to what it says, “communicating spiritual things by spiritual means”? Perhaps you would say more as to that.
DBR I do not think I could say any more, but I see the importance of it that we come together in a subject way available as subject persons, who can receive a touch from the Holy Spirit, a heavenly touch, a holy touch.
JSp Yes, that is very fine. I often think as we sit in our reading meetings or meetings for ministry, what a privilege it is to be in an area where divine light is coming in in a living way. It is not just that we have read the ministry and give out what we have read, but a living touch comes into it. It is a wonderful thing to prove it.
AMcK When Joseph’s brethren went back to their father they had one theme, “Joseph is still alive”, Genesis 45: 26.
JSp Why do you say that?
AMcK He gave them a change of garments. I think it is in some way a reference in our day to our receiving the Spirit. There are plenty of new garments on different kinds of persons and then we are all saying the same thing.
JSp And to add to that, when Jacob saw the waggons coming he said, “Joseph my son is yet alive”. Is that not a living witness to the power of the Spirit?
AMcK The waggons were to take Jacob and all the families back to Joseph.
JSp So it was power for movement, power for transport. Now we can bring all that into Christianity and we can see that a spiritual movement is in mind.
TDB I was thinking of Simeon and how he came into the temple; he was ready for some revelation. I was just thinking of what underlies the presence of the Spirit that there are conditions in which He can be free.
JSp And when Christ came in He was acclaimed by Simeon. There were certain things that he had laid hold of and he waited for them, but when Christ came in, “he received him into his arms”, Luke 2: 28. I think that is beautiful. To give it a practical application, when an impression of Christ comes into a meeting we are ready to receive it because it comes in by the Spirit.
TF Do you think in reference to the Spirit’s searching the depths of God, there is something distinctive involved in that, these things are not commonplace? There is a distinction about them.
JSp These are contrasts he is making in this epistle. There is the shallowness of the world and what they do not know; if the princes of this world had known they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. Their knowledge is very limited, but coming in here we are touching deep things, touching things in these two epistles that relate to the purpose of God.
DCB So is that searching what we are receiving the benefit of on an occasion like this? The Spirit has searched on our behalf and this is what is brought to us.
JSp Yes, I would like help from this scripture because I feel I do not know very much about, it. Say some more, please, as to searching on, our behalf.
DCB The Spirit, I think it has been said, would hardly need to search for His own benefit. He is searching on our behalf to bring out the great things of God and we have that wonderful benefit as we come together.
JSp He is bringing out these deep things where there are conditions for them, where there are subject and ready hearts. He is bringing them out.
JS Do you think to get the gain of the temple functioning in the spirit of liberty, underlying it really is the truth of the body, so that we learn how to hold ourselves in relation to one another? The principle of one-man ministry really shuts out the Spirit, whereas if we can get the benefit of the body in operation, it comes out temple-wise, do you think?
JSp In 1 Corinthians 12 he is bringing out the function of the saints body-wise with the emphasis on the Spirit; everything is really consequent on the Spirit. Maybe we should just look at that because it is important; we just want to be free to look at the things that come in. The first thing that comes in is that “no one can say. Lord Jesus, unless in the power of the Holy Spirit. But there are distinctions of gifts, but the same Spirit” (1 Corinthians 12: 3, 4), and he is opening up a lot as to the Spirit. Can you help us as to it?
DBR I have been thinking since the meeting has been going on that the life of Jesus was a life of holy satisfaction, and is a life of holy satisfaction where He is, and the Spirit would bring us into that. I think the touch as to “Joseph is still alive” is good. Drinking of one Spirit really brings us into the area of satisfaction, and it is really the kind of satisfaction that Christ is enjoying. It is a very exalted thought.
JSp Yes, a very exalted thought. Baptism into one body means that I go out of sight, but then drinking of one Spirit is that I am wholly satisfied with what Christ is engaged with.
Do you think that would lead on to the Lord singing in the midst of the assembly?
DBR Yes, I believe it would, and practically the test for me is. Am I satisfied with it? What could you give a person better than that? What else could you offer me today than this, to drink of one Spirit? It is a collective matter, is it not?
JSp It is. I was impressed by a line of the hymn the other week,
‘Our hearts are filled with holy joy,
And in Thy praise outpour’. (Hymn 35)
It all leads into the service of God.
JCG Does what our brother has said lead us to this matter of the manifestation? It says in that chapter, “to each the manifestation of the Spirit is given for profit”, 1 Corinthians 12: 7. We are accustomed to identifying impressions with a person and, in one sense, that would be right as to the work of God in that person, but should we more and more understand that there is a manifestation of the Spirit, with spiritual impressions that different ones bring in?
JSp I think that would be right. Sometimes a younger brother gives a word that stimulates and refreshes you. I would say that that is a manifestation of the Spirit. Would you say that?
JCG Yes, I think that is good because the younger generation needs to be encouraged in their devotions to the Lord and the Spirit. It would have a result in what might be brought out. It is not to be kept to themselves but to be brought out for the benefit of the body.
JSp So we would encourage the younger ones to be free in the ministry meeting, for instance, just to have five words. What a stimulus that is. Paul says, “I desire to speak five words with my understanding”, 1 Corinthians 14: 19. It is a manifestation of the Spirit but it also involves a certain experience in the young brother, five words with my understanding.
JS We find that a good deal can flow out from a question. It would be a good thing for the younger brothers to be encouraged to ask questions, do you think? I have always been very thankful for the disciples who asked the Lord questions. He brought a lot out of that.
JSp How often we have proved that, just a simple question can open up so much. Again, it is an evidence of the Spirit being free and divine light coming in.
TDB What would be the things of the Spirit of God?
JSp Sometimes the Spirit of God puts things in an unspecified way, opening the way for the glories that are there. We are enjoined to seek the things which are above; then we would say, What are these things? and we search them out. The Spirit helps us in that.
MGW Could I ask about verse 12, “that we may know the things which have been freely given to us of God”? Is there a whole range of things that God has given me, and I do not know them, but I can know them by the Spirit?
JSp Well, I think it is to stimulate interest and desire, that is my impression as to these things, to stimulate interest and desire. We would all confess that our knowledge is small but what a thing it is for even a young believer to kneel down with the ministry and ask Him to open up a passage of scripture to him. I think that is a delightful thing.
GCMcK The word freely there is very telling. It says, “that we may know the things which have been freely given to us of God”. Is that encouraging to us that these are available to us?
JSp He gives freely, and what does the scripture say as to that?
GCMcK It says, “and reproaches not”, James 1: 5. I was wondering about the whole matter of liberty in this matter. For example, enquiry in the temple and liberty for the Spirit.
These things are freely given to us of God. Should we look for something like that, something of liberty in our own souls in laying hold of these things, having an exercise to make way for the Spirit that things are free among us, do you think?
JSp That is exactly what I do think. Do you think Mary might be an example when she sat at the Lord’s feet? He says, “Mary has chosen the good part, the which shall not be taken from her”, Luke 10: 42. That is a divine promise. Who is making that promise? It is the Lord Himself. Do you not think that if we set ourselves for that the Lord will surely satisfy the desire of every living thing?
JAW It would make for freshness, would it, freshness and the current mind of the Lord for the moment, individually and collectively?
JSp Well, that is what we would look for in our meetings, freshness and power; the mind of the Lord coming in with fresh light and fresh help.
JS Would you say a word about this thought of communicating spiritual things by spiritual means?
JSp Well, we are enquiring here, the spirit of enquiry is in the meeting. What do you say about it?
JS It seems to be contrasted with the thought of human wisdom. That is not to be trusted, is it? The cross has been the end of that, but this thought of spiritual things by spiritual means, this kind of communication, requires reliance on the Spirit.
JSp It does, it is what is taught by the Spirit; the Spirit teaches. I would like to know more of it. We use our mouths to communicate; God gives man a mouth to communicate natural things but here there is something deeper underlying it. It is not merely words; it is that spiritual things may be communicated. It is very difficult to put into words but it is a very real thing. Do you not think that we experience quickening when something comes in of the Spirit?
JS It not only brings something into your mind but it touches your affections, do you think?
JSp Yes, exactly.
DAS I was just thinking of the reference in 2 Corinthians 3, “But we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit” (2 Corinthians 3: 18). As we are in the gain of it individually, in the service as we come together, we prove a wonderful change, “from glory to glory”. We prove His service and His intimacy and communion with Him individually, and then we prove it in a more beautiful way collectively, do we not?
JSp I am very glad you refer to that scripture because I think it epitomises what we are saying as to the Lord being before us. It has a general bearing but it has a very specific bearing as we are together. I think when the Lord is before the saints the Spirit has tremendous
liberty and there is an inward change. So we are transformed, from glory to glory. It is as if the Spirit is able to bring out more and more as he did in the second epistle. He is bringing out more when the conditions are ready for it. He is able to bring out more of the glory of Christ.
DBR It is a similarity, transformed into the same image. It is transformed into similarity. I think Mr. Darby says, not to equality; He is always supreme. Christ must always be supreme but it is transformed to similarity. It is a wonderful thought.
JSp It is indeed. What exactly do you understand by that, transformed to similarity?
DBR Similarity to Christ.
JSp And to one another?
DBR And to one another. It must be so, so it is all of the one order. We are of the one kind; is that the idea?
JSp Very good. Is that not the answer to any diversion amongst us?
DBR I heard Mr. Walkinshaw say about 2 Corinthians 3 that it is the secret of unity amongst the saints, “transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit”. Argument is no use but the Spirit can do it if we are subject, do you think?
JSp Well, I am glad you have mentioned that. That is certainly a very great exercise because I think if we have Christ and His interests before us we will all be transformed according to the same image.
JAB It is important to realise that this flow that you have been speaking of and what is coming from heaven, is going on all the time. I was thinking of the river flowing out in Ezekiel 47 from the altar and from the gate, it is flowing all the time. Is it really a question of ourselves immersing in that flow, discerning it? Do you think that we should encourage one another to see that even in what might be outwardly small and weak this flow is happening? It is all in view of the holy city coming down, is it not?
JSp That is fine. We may only be able for the water being to the ankles but that is necessary and then to the knees. I think that all bears on the operations of the Spirit in a moral sense, the ankles, then the knees, then the loins, then waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed through. I think that is when we are really in the enjoyment of divine love in all its fulness. I did not have much to say as to Revelation but I thought it was important to grasp the great conclusion of things. I think if you are following up a line of truth it is good to keep the end in view, keep the conclusion before us. What do you think?
JS So that it says, “And he carried me away in the Spirit”. I think the Spirit would keep before us the great objectives to which He is working.
JSp I feel it is so important to keep that before us.
RG Is it interesting that in Revelation the assemblies are spoken to, “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies”, at the beginning of the book, and then we have this long parenthesis in the middle dealing with another dispensation and so on, and then we come to the fulness of what the Lord has in mind as a result of what the Spirit says to the assemblies, and you see it in all its glory and in its completeness?
JSp I think that is very beautiful, as if the body of the book is a kind of hiatus while God is dealing with things on the earth, which is very necessary of course, but it goes back to the main line which is the glory of God in the assembly. “To him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages”, Ephesians 3: 21. That is the main line.
JS Does the reference to the city “coming down out of the heaven from God, having the glory of God”, show the final result? In Romans 8, “these also he has glorified”, is that how it has been taken on presently by the Spirit in view of its culmination in the holy city?
JSp Well that is what I thought. I would be glad if you would open up a little more.
JS I just thought it is a help to us, because we have these exercises experimentally, and sometimes they are very testing, but the Spirit comes in to help us, “joins also its help to our weakness”, and it is in view of what is glorious in the way of conformity to Christ. The aggregate of it all is to be seen in the holy city.
JSp Yes, so “these also he has glorified” is a present thing involving the Spirit. It is not those He will glorify; but the glory is accumulating now.
JS I thought that is the important thing to see about it. The glory will not just be put on as she comes down. The glory is being taken on presently through formation by the Spirit.
JSp Exactly, so having the glory of God is not simply being invested with the glory of God at that point. She is viewed in glory as having the glory of God. I think it involves persons like you and me, and all believers who are making way for the Spirit, taking on the glory, and the day will come when it is manifested.
AMcS Would you say something about the Spirit being the bond, the bond between the Father and the Son, also the bond between Christ and the believer? I would think too between Christ and the assembly. What would you say?
JSp Well I do not know that I can say much about it, but what I can see is how closely we are linked with the divine economy. Divine Persons have taken positions in relation to the saints. The only thing I can say about that is it shows how closely we are linked with the divine economy. What do you say?
AMcS I suppose we are actually part of the economy.
JSp I think it is right to say that.
AMcS I was just thinking of what was formed at Pentecost linking Christ and the assembly, the bond formed going right through. That is something to lay hold of, do you think?
JSp Well, we will never cease to be creatures—the assembly is always a creature vessel but it shows how close she comes to Deity, the Spirit the bond between Christ Jesus and His own and between the Father and the Son. These are things that we need to ponder by the Spirit and seek to understand them more.
GBG Does the “one Spirit” come into that as well? The Spirit is spoken of on a number of occasions as the “one Spirit”. Is that related to the bond between ourselves?
JSp Yes, that quite often comes in, “one Spirit” and “the same Spirit”. That shows that it is not an abstract thing but it is worked out in persons who are working out the truth of the assembly. These are things that are worked out and they are very real; this is not just an abstract thing.
DBR It involves complete integration so that in chapter 22 you have one voice, “the Spirit and the bride say, “Come” (Revelation 22: 17), and, as far as I understand, it is the only thing the bride is ever recorded saying. I do not think she is ever recorded as saying anything else. It is complete integration with the Spirit, she says, “Come”.
JSp Well maybe we should close on that point. I think it is very fine because there is a creature vessel and a divine Person saying the same thing in complete integration as you say.
RG The next clause to that is, “And let him that hears say, Come”. I think Mr. Taylor said that the Spirit and the bride say, Come, but then the responsibility on our side is, “Let him that hears say, Come”. There is the complete vessel and then there are individuals as we are who would be ready to say, Come, do you think?
JSp Do you think “him that hears” would be someone whose ear is attuned to the voice of the Spirit? I think that is very helpful.
Reading at Dundee
8 September 2001
KEY TO INITIALS
AMcK Sandy McKay
AMcS Alan McSeveney
CKR C. Kenneth Robinson
DAS Douglas A. Steven
DBR David B. Robertson
DCB D. C. Brown
GBG G. Bruce Grant
GCMcK Gordon C. McKay
JAB John A. Brown
JAW Jim A. Walker
JCG John C. Gray
JS John Strachan
JSp John Spinks
MGW Morrison G. Wood
RG Robert Gardiner
TDB T. David Beveridge
TDS Tom. D. Steedman
TF Tim Franklin
Edited and Published by J. Strachan, 59 Frederick Street, Dundee, DD3 9DE, Scotland Printed by Crystal Stationery, 22 Western Road, Billericay, Essex CM12 9DZ, (T) (01277) 650661