THE HEAVENLY CALLING
THE HEAVENLY CALLING
JT It was the mention twice of “two men” as present on the mount speaking with the Lord, that has led to the suggestion of looking at this account of the transfiguration at this time. Some of us were engaged recently with the place man, as such, has in the book of Ezekiel; in chapter 1 his place in the amber spot over the expanse, a symbolic representation of divine power upon earth; and then a man seen as clothed with linen with the ink-horn upon his loins in chapter 9; then in chapter 40 “a man whose appearance was like the appearance of brass”, possessed of a flax-cord and a measuring-reed; and then finally, chapter 43, a man standing by the prophet in the place of the divine dwelling, the residence of the glory and the divine presence. I thought a view of this scene in Luke would help us as to the place man has, as it were, in the precincts of heaven and in heaven itself. In Luke 24 there are two men “in shining garments” at the open sepulchre, that is, at the resurrection of Christ; and in Acts 1 there are two men in “white clothing” at the ascension; and finally, in what represents the Lord’s place of glory on high, in Luke 9, there are two men. I think the Spirit of God would impress us with these facts as indicating the place man has with God, both as introductory to the final state of things, the glory itself, and then on the mount — two men, we are told, “appearing in glory”. It seems to me that these facts, presented as they are in Ezekiel and Luke, taken in relation to similar ones elsewhere, are to accustom us to the supremacy of man in the divine counsels, even over angels; wisdom’s delight anticipatively being with the sons of men, and all making for manhood practically with us, in the way of formation. The verses in Luke 9: 23 - 27 have that in view. They make demands [p. 419] upon us with a view to making men of us. So the Lord alludes to their position: “There are some of those standing here”, He says. They were standing, as if the truth ministered was affecting them. I think that is the attitude preliminary to the glory.
PL Does “I know a man in Christ” (2 Corinthians 12: 2), convey the thought? Has Paul, as seen in the early part of that epistle, been in the pathway, of which these verses speak previous to the transfiguration?
JT Yes, in all those fourteen years, he was consciously a man belonging to heaven; he had been there, and the fact is mentioned to set us in movement.
GAvS Would the thought of standing and maturity thus go together?
JT I think so. In the presence of such instruction as the verses contain, there is energy, a readiness for what may come in. Something is to follow, for such instruction as we get in these verses from 23 to 27 is not final; it is preparatory in order to bring about a state of readiness for anything the Lord may suggest further. A standing attitude is suitable at a time of education. We shall be sitting presently; we shall be raised up together and made to sit down together, but with a view to that, a standing attitude is becoming to us now. It is an educational time, and heavy demands are being made in what the Lord has said, so it is suitable to be standing.
PL John the baptist was in the standing attitude. In John 1 he is standing (verse 35), and in chapter 3, he “stands and hears”, John 1:29.
JT Yes; the Lord Himself had been standing, as John said: “In the midst of you stands ...” (John 1:26.) Great things were to come in and he was ready; and so John stands as the Lord comes to him. He comes to John, who baptises Him, and then John stands, and later, as you say, he “stands and hears” the voice of the Bridegroom. Great things were coming;
indeed, John’s gospel would prepare us to see “greater things”.
Rem There were women standing at the cross, and some who were not in the spirit and sympathy of it were sitting down and watching Him.
JT That is in keeping with what we are saying. His crucifixion was not final; anticipatively there was more to come, and so the next chapter brings forward those women at the grave.
FGW Would there be any connection with what you are saying and the two sons of oil in Zechariah standing “before the Lord of the whole earth”, Zechariah 4:14?
JT That is the idea; a standing attitude is one of alertness and readiness for what may come, which I think ought to impress us, both in regard of service now, and in regard of the translation of the saints. “But what I say to you, I say to all, Watch”, Mark 13:37, is a similar thought.
PL “Abraham remained yet standing before Jehovah”, Genesis 18:22.
Ques Would the two men standing “by them” in Acts 1 correspond with the two men in glory? I was thinking how much Luke speaks of two men — Peter and John, Saul and Barnabas, Paul and Silas. Do you think he continues the thought of two men standing on earth?
JT That is right; and they are said to be in “white clothing”, which I think is an allusion to purity in the testimony. Mark speaks of a young man “clothed in a white robe” (Mark 16:5), at the sepulchre. In Acts 1 there are two, and they are calling attention to the manner of His going up, that as they had seen Him go up, so He should return. They called attention to the manner of Christ’s movements, which fact bears on the history of the assembly: “the manner”, the reflection of that is to be here.
DLH Did not Stephen see the blessed Lord Himself “standing at the right hand of God”, Acts 7:55 that is, as ready for some fresh movement if there had been any response?
JT Just so, still waiting there in patience on Israel.
Ques Why does it say, “some of those standing here”?
JT To test us. Who is it to be? There is another thought at once suggested, and that is the question of sovereign selection. Going to heaven is not of itself consequent on our being in a standing attitude; there must also be the question of sovereign selection; we shall be there on that principle.
JRS Is that in accord with the preceding words: “If any one will come after me”? I was thinking of what you said as to those standing by.
JT The whole passage is to bring about alertness, which the Lord values. He alludes to the fact that they were standing; they were not listless or taking their ease; they were standing in an attitude of alertness, which is seemly after such instruction.
FSM Would this be in accord with chapter 12: “ye like men who wait their own lord”, Luke 12:36? Would that be the attitude?
JT Yes. The instruction contemplates that I have energy. It seems to me that it is an extreme demand to test our genuineness. As He says, “If any one will come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me”.
PL Would the energy be seen in the expression, those “who by night stand in the house of Jehovah”, Psalm 134:l?
JT Yes. The Scriptures are full of the thought, and it seems to bear peculiarly on these last days. I believe the Lord is speaking to us as to this. There are those who go in for rioting and drunkenness, chambering and lasciviousness, taking things easily, listlessly and licentiously, but over against that you have persons who [p. 422] are on the alert, and the Lord speaks to them: “There are some of those standing here”.
Ques Does it link up with verses 1 and 2 of the chapter where reference is made to demons and diseases? Would those agencies bring men down, so to speak, in helplessness?
JT Just so. I suppose demons are powers acting in a general way, and diseases are in the sense of an epidemic, and added you have the thought of healing the sick, that is, specific cases. All these are over against this attitude of standing. There is no demon power in them, no disease occurrent, nor is anyone sick; it is a very healthy state of things. It is to that state the Lord addresses Himself as regards heaven.
JJ Would the men standing at the eleventh hour in Matthew 20 be on the same line — waiting to be hired?
JT Yes. Then there are many who talk about the Lord’s coming in a very theoretical sort of way, without taking note of the demands that it makes. Those who wait for their own lord are in readiness. Many have taken up the thought of translation with little idea of the corresponding suitable attitude.
Rem It must have been very delightful to the heart of the Father to look down upon men who had been given to Christ out of the world, matured men according to John 17.
JT Yes, indeed.
Ques Does Ephesians 6 show us how to stand?
JT Well, that standing is holding your ground: “having done all, to stand”, Ephesians 6:13.
HFN Elijah spoke of “Jehovah of hosts ... before whom I stand” (1 Kings 18:15), and to Moses, when the people are sitting (Exodus 32: 6), God said, “Behold, there is a place by me: there shalt thou stand on the rock”, Exodus 33:21. Would those two men illustrate what is before us?
JT That is very good; they are the two men here,
[p. 423] and they stand. What the Lord says is preliminary to the idea of ascension. Then the two men at the sepulchre are in shining garments; I think the dual thought is just testimony to the idea; as if God would impress us with the thought as in the precincts of heaven, the eternal state of things, we may say. We are to be impressed with the thought that at the resurrection of Christ, or His ascension, or in the scene above, men are there. The scene in Luke makes way for what Christ is above. John says, “it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is”, 1 John 3:2. I think that opens the door for the consideration of what Christ is now, what He is to be as Man eternally, and in that transcendent glory, a glory beyond anything apparently any man has yet seen. There are those who are fit for it. It is not only what He was here during the forty days, not only what He was even before, but what He is in that transcendent glory that is evidently beyond anything yet seen, and there are men in liberty with Him there. They “appeared in glory”; they are in full dress, as it were. They appeared in glory speaking with Him, and they are said to be “two men”. It is not a question of what is historical as in Matthew and Mark, simply Moses and Elias, well-known men, but here it says “two men” twice, and that is mentioned before they are named, as if the idea of manhood is the thought, and they are appearing in glory and speaking with Him in the supreme glory.
JOS In Ezekiel 43 is the prophet introduced into the glory of the house? It says, “a man was standing by me”, Ezekiel 43:46.
JT That is what we were saying at the beginning. That seems to be in view in Ezekiel in that respect; they were to be sustained there in the divine residence, as it says, “the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel”, Ezekiel 43:7.
It says, “a man was standing by me”, without saying what he did. He is there to sustain us there, but the wonderful fact is there was no need for Moses and Elias to be sustained here, they are equal to the position; they are speaking with Jesus; they are not at all disconcerted by the transcendent glory, because He was transfigured, whatever that may mean. Luke says that He “became different”, which leaves it indefinite, but it suggests infinitude. The difference is beyond any comparison with man, it is different from what He was generally down here. There is no thought of glory taken on by Him, it is what He is in Himself; what He is opening up, and, as I apprehend, is what is personal and beyond anything, as far as Scripture shows, that has yet been seen; as John says, “it doth not yet appear”.
HPW If we are to regard these as sample men, is it to be noted that Moses had already learned the lesson of holiness? “Loose thy sandals from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground”, Exodus 3:5. Is that one of the qualifications?
JT Quite so. His education is all behind this occasion. No one was more qualified than he to speak about the Lord’s decease, for his whole ministry had that in view. In the typical sacrifices, he was conversant with that; and he was hidden in the rock on the mount when the glory passed by. God said, “Behold, there is a place by me: there shalt thou stand on the rock. And it shall come to pass, when my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand, until I have passed by” Exodus 33:21 - 22. But that was all educational and past; there is nothing of that here; he is in perfect freedom in the presence of the glory, and he speaks too. The men apparently take the initiative in speaking. It is a place of holy liberty where we can converse with the Lord. He converses with us, no doubt, but we can converse with Him.
AJG Is it significant that Peter when about to put off his tabernacle was dwelling on this [p. 425] incident?
JT It is most significant. I suppose he was never more capable of dwelling upon it than then.
Ques Would you say that the priest seen standing would be in the light of this in his soul? It says, “every priest stands daily ministering, and offering”, Hebrews 10:11.
JT It is the attitude of service. I suppose the shining raiment of the two men in Luke 24 is the reflection of what had been reached through death and resurrection, the reflection of what God is. It will be noticed here (Luke 9), that the two men being there is mentioned first by the Spirit as a fact; and then secondly the disciples saw them as awaking from their sleep. The matter is confirmed, but the Spirit of God, it seems to me, would impress us peculiarly with the thought of the men. Luke is the only one who mentions “two men”, and the thought is confirmed first by the Spirit’s account, and then adding, “having fully awoke up they saw his glory, and the two men who stood with him”, verse 32.
Ques What is the thought in “he went up into a mountain to pray. And as he prayed ...”?
JT That of course, as has often been remarked, is a witness to the dependent Man. We have the Lord probably ten times in Luke in that attitude. It is a very beautiful thought; as He prayed the thing came about, God honouring the dependent Man.
Rem In that way you have a display of moral glory preceding personal glory.
JT Quite so.
JJ What do you say about the identification of these two men?
JT You can understand that the names given, only add to the thought that these are men of quality. They are not like the men at the sepulchre, and the ascension, who are just angels; they are men of body and experience, God as it were bringing forward the Old Testament testimony to Christ, what the work of [p. 426] God was in those times; that it was not merely typical, but there was formation in these men, so that they are now qualified to come out and speak with the Lord in this wonderful scene. I suppose they properly represent the heavenly saints, that is, ourselves anticipatively, and that makes it all the more marvellous for us.
PL Does it link up spiritual elevation and intelligence in the assembly with a history of moral worth?
JT God would note the value of past history, so that it is in keeping with the great testimony of the wilderness. “What hath God wrought!” (Numbers 23:21) That is what all will see in the consummation of divine counsels; there is history behind it.
Ques Is there any connection between the prayer here, and the Lord’s present service of intercession on high?
JT It is more to call attention to the Man, what He was. No doubt He was praying for others, but the point is, He was engaged in that, whatever He was praying for. What He was below, He was up there.
FSM Would you say a further word as to His glory? The expression is used twice in the chapter, and in verse 26 there are three glories mentioned, His glory, and that of the Father, and the holy angels. What is the character of His glory as transfigured?
JT Well, that is what I should like to have made clear. The Lord may help us to consider what He is; what He was, of course, both in His flesh and blood condition, and during the forty days, and what He is I think this points to what He is.
MWB Would you draw a contrast between the resurrection condition of our Lord and what He now is?
JT I think we should. John had seen Him in both previous conditions, and he had seen this too. This is but a suggestion of His present glory. John had seen this, and yet he says, “it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him” 1 John 3:2. It seems to me there is something in that to indicate what is beyond anything so far seen.
WCG Would the scripture in Timothy describe what He was? “Confessedly the mystery of piety is great”. 1 Timothy 3:16 That is right. “God has been manifested in flesh”, that is the bare fact. But then, He “has been justified in the Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among the nations, has been believed on in the world, has been received up in glory” — not to glory. I think that gives the clue; He was “received up in glory”, 1 Timothy 3:16.
Ques Would Colossians 1 bring forward what He is? “Image of the invisible God, firstborn of all creation”, Colossians 1:15. Would that bear upon it?
JT That is what He is personally, and would apply at any time. When we are speaking of the Person, there can be no change, but as to His condition there may be. It is His condition we are speaking of, and it says, that we shall be conformed “to his body of glory”, Philippians 3:21, whatever that is.
COB Where would you place, “have I not seen Jesus our Lord?” 1 Corinthians 9:1 when Paul speaks of the glory?
JT He saw Him of course; he was equal to the others in having seen the Lord, and he saw Him in some sense, I apprehend, in glory. Whether he saw the fulness of the glory, I do not know, but he would have some thought of it. As we said he speaks of “his body of glory”, whatever that is. I think we ought to make room in our minds for something additional, for what we shall be.
Rem The Lord says, “There are some of those standing here who shall not taste death until they shall have seen the kingdom of God”, and in Acts 1 it says, “speaking of the things which concern the kingdom of God”, Acts 1:3.
JT The bearing of that is the testimony, and [p. 428] the bearing of the holy scene of the mount on the three was the testimony here, but we cannot limit this. The kingdom of God is a great fact here in testimony, and “the Son of man coming in his kingdom” (Matthew 16:28) is mentioned in Matthew, which I think is a further thought. It is how He comes, “the Son of man coming in his kingdom”. But Paul speaks of “his body of glory”. Well, what is that? John says, “it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him”.
HD'AC What is the connection between that thought and the one later in John’s epistle: “as he is, so are we in this world” (1 John 4:17), not, ‘we shall be’?
JT That is abstract, I apprehend, and in keeping with John’s epistle, that we might learn how to abstract ourselves in mind, so that we are in accord with Christ in our minds even now. It does not contemplate our mixed condition; it is more an abstract thought.
HD'AC It does not say, ‘as we ought to be’.
JT Just so. It also says, “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not”, 1 John 5:18. All these are abstract thoughts, practical thoughts but abstract, and it is a question of power to lay hold of them. It is a question of power in my soul, whether I can think abstractly in that way; but when He is manifested, what will He be like?
WCG When Paul speaks of the heavenly calling — “the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus” Philippians 3:14 — does he suggest a personal manifestation of it?
JT He says, “I pursue, looking towards the goal, for the prize of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”; not that he had already attained it. He sought to arrive “at the resurrection from among the dead” Philippians 3:11, which would be in keeping with the two men in Luke 24; but the “calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”, well. I believe that is what we need to understand. I [p. 429] think there is something in that beyond what has been manifested.
WCG He encourages them: “this also God shall reveal to you” Philippians 3:15.
MWB You referred just now to the fact when the disciples were fully awake — is that regarded as having a spiritual bearing, implying something after the nature of the prayer in Ephesians l? “being enlightened in the eyes of your heart”, Ephesians 1:18.
JT That is suggestive. It says, “but having fully awoke up they saw his glory, and the two men who stood with him”, and then Peter goes on to speak about the tabernacles. I think it is an allusion to the saints waking up. The thing is a fact; the change is a fact; but now, as awaking, “they saw his glory, and the two men who stood with him”. “Wake up, thou that sleepest, and arise up from among the dead, and the Christ shall shine upon thee”, Ephesians 5:14. I think there is something at the present time that we may see as awaking.
HFN Why does Peter in his record in the epistle speak of being “eyewitnesses of his majesty”? Then he goes on to say, “For he received from God the Father honour and glory” 2 Peter 1:16 - 17. How do you link that up with what Luke speaks of in connection with His glory?
JT Of course he is speaking of this, and understanding that what they saw was “the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” 2 Peter 1:16, and the way that bears on the testimony. It bore on his testimony, but the point is whether there is not something represented in this glory, beyond anything that has yet been manifested.
HFN That is just the point I wanted help on. Would Peter have more the thought of Matthew’s account in view, the way he refers to it, but would Luke bring out more what you are speaking of, something peculiarly distinctive as to His glory?
JT I think Luke’s account sustains Paul. Matthew and Mark rather sustain Peter, which makes it all the [p. 430] more suggestive, because Paul is occupied with glory; he is the minister of it, you may say; he speaks of “the glory that excelleth”, 2 Corinthians 3:10. Of course, that is covenant glory, but the suggestion is very remarkable. It reminds us there is that which will be manifested beyond anything yet known, an “exceeding and eternal weight of glory” (2 Corinthians 4:17), and I think the Lord would train and accustom us to that, to what we shall see.
Ques How far does John 1:14 go? “We have contemplated his glory”.
JT That is a “glory as of an only-begotten with a father” which was manifested here, but I am inclined to think it does not go as far as Paul’s ministry. I think we ought to be prepared for the full thought, and you must get that from Paul. I believe Luke has in mind the full thought. “A voice being uttered to him by the excellent glory”, 2 Peter 1: 17. These superlatives ought to be noticed. There is increase contemplated, and you get the full thought of everything in Paul.
PL So you get the “riches of his glory”: would this great thought be wrapped up in that?
JT Just so.
Ques We are “transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit” (2 Corinthians 3:18) — would that help?
JT That all relates to the covenant, but there is the thought of increasing glory: “from glory to glory”. I do not think anything will be stationary or limited in heaven; it will be wonderful, and God would remind us, as standing, of what there is and what the calling is, the “calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”, He being the expression of it Himself. But then He is a divine Person, and the glory is the expression of what He is; it is not what He takes on, but what He is.
GAvS In these different passages is there indicated that God’s full thought is lying in the future? and that therefore, while it is in the compass of God’s [p. 431] thoughts, it is for us a matter to reach out to in exercise of soul?
JT That is what we have been remarking as to Philippians 3. The apostle aimed at arriving “at the resurrection from among the dead” — that is one thing, and then he pursued “towards the goal, for the prize of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”. That goes beyond resurrection; it goes beyond what Christ was as amongst His own during the forty days.
Ques Do you think what one may speak of as the two expressions in relation to the Lord — His glory and His sufferings in Gethsemane — and the disciples asleep on both occasions, would show how weak the flesh is, and the great need for spiritual stature to meet the conditions?
JT That is the point of this meeting to us. There is this great thing awaiting us, and it is a question whether we are standing, whether there is the development of manhood. You have two men in three positions; two at the resurrection, two at the ascension and two in the glory. Well, this in chapter 9 is like the precincts of the heavenly domain, being the suggestion of what is final — what Christ is in the excellent glory. God would awake us. “Having fully awoke up they saw his glory”. What a marvellous suggestion that is! — “and the two men who stood with him”. They saw the heavenly scene, a scene to be apprehended, as the apostle says, “the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”, Philippians 3:14.
EJMcB Is your thought that we may get an anticipative view of it in the soul?
JT Yes; it is to be grasped, and yet we may say it is still beyond us. I do not think anything in this sense is exactly final. It is not what He takes on like Moses; the Lord’s face shining is what He is, and the expression from Himself of the thought of Man.
Ques Did Peter have any thought of this when he said, “who has called you to his eternal glory”, 1 Peter 5:10?
JT That all bears upon it.
PL Does the word “pursue” used by Paul in Philippians suggest that finality is not reached?
JT Even in himself — quite so. That ought to remind us of what it is, that he pursued the thing, that he might attain what he was apprehended for, what the saints are apprehended for in Christ.
JJ Would that be seen in the fact that these three entered into all this while still in the bodies of flesh and blood, not like Moses and Elias? Is that not the marvel of it?
JT Peter alluding to it as about to put off his tabernacle, indicates that it was very definite with him.
JJ And do you think the expression “bodies of humiliation” goes with the earlier verses of Luke 9, and then “bodies of glory” being like Him as He is?
JT Yes.
AJG Have you in mind that His body of glory will be the shining out of all the moral glory that is in Him, and is apprehended in Him, and not as taken on by Him?
JT That is right. It is taken on by us; we are the workmanship of God, but not so with Christ. “We shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is”, 1 John 3:2. What will it be? John says it is not yet manifested, but when we see Him we shall be like Him.
PL Would the expression, “the effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance” (Hebrews 1:3), have any bearing on this?
JT That of course is of God’s glory, but think of the Person who is capable of that! I think, however, we should lay hold of what Christ is as Man, as the pattern of men, designed for the divine counsels, and see the effect of that. I think that is how things work, that what we are outwardly, we are inwardly; it is not something taken on for which we are not equal; the [p. 433] seeing suggests ability to take on the greatness of what He is.
Rem Peter’s speaking was not quite in accord with what he saw; he saw His glory.
JT Exactly; he was not equal to it yet, but as he was about to put off his tabernacle, what a history lay behind, and he could speak of it then. I suppose you can get nothing more pregnant with spiritual thought than Peter’s own remarks.
Ques Is there an interval of silence necessary between what is seen and the speaking about it? It says, “they kept silence, and told no one in those days any of the things they had seen”.
JT You feel it is a time for quiet meditation as you enter the sanctuary, for instance. The principle of absorption, of taking the thing in is to regulate us. The ministry of the Spirit throughout this period is to make us great inwardly, to give us power and vision, so that we may take in the greatness of the divine thoughts, so that when it is manifested we are equal to it; it does not overpower us.
WCG Does not our oneness with Christ help us in that regard? “He that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one”, Hebrews 2:11. How does that fit in?
JT It all works into it.
COB Does Stephen answer to it? He is spoken of as a man, and he is able to put into his own words what he saw.
JT Quite so. You get constantly throughout Scripture, “What seest thou?” and it is a good question. What do I see? Well, I am going to be like that, but it may be greater than what I already see, and we should be prepared for this.
MWB It says in 2 Corinthians 5, “Now he that has wrought us for this very thing is God, who also has given to us the earnest of the Spirit” (2 Corinthians 5:5), in connection with the bodies of glory. Does that give in any sense an anticipation of what you are [p. 434] speaking about?
JT I think that helps. The apostle began by speaking of looking on what is unseen, and then the exceeding weight of glory, and then the house from heaven, and then he says, “Now he that has wrought us for this very thing is God, who also has given to us the earnest of the Spirit”. 2 Corinthians 5:5 We have the earnest of the thing in the Spirit, so that we learn to look at it.
Ques Does that not agree with the end of Philippians 3, where the Lord is spoken of as the One who “shall transform our body of humiliation into conformity to his body of glory” Philippians 3:21?
JT That is good: “according to the working of the power which he has even to subdue all things to himself” Philippians 3:21.
JHB Could we have a word about the two men in Luke 24 and Acts 1, as leading up to what is before you?
JT First of all it is what is in resurrection. The women were in perplexity, and I think God meets perplexity by something concrete, which is a suggestion for ministry. When people are in perplexity, you want to present things explicitly; and there are the two men in shining garments. It is as if God would say, There is nothing to cause perplexity. There is the great thought that resurrection implies a shining, and it is men that shine. It is a great victory, the reflection of what God has reached. Then the two at the ascension would call, attention to order, the way in which things are done. I believe the Lord has been helping us as to the manner of things. It says that they saw Him go up, and the two men point to that: “the manner in which ye have beheld him going into heaven” Acts 1:11. That is something objective. Well, that is not to be forgotten; He is to come back in like manner; there is to be no change in that respect, and I suppose the interval is a filling up of that thought as to order, and the way things should be done.
Ques In John 17:24, the Lord says, “Father, as [p. 435] to those whom thou hast given me, I desire that where I am they also may be with me, that they may behold my glory”. Is not the answer to that to be with Him and like Him, to behold that glory, and would that not refer somewhat to sonship?
JT Being like Him is the full thought of sonship; that is, we await the full thought of it. What we have now is more the liberty that belongs to it. The “spirit of adoption” gives you the thing, but we have to await the full thought. So we have in Romans 8, the “revelation of the sons of God” (Romans 8:19), and the “glory of the children of God” (Romans 8:21), which I apprehend is sonship.
Ques What do you understand as to the two men who “appearing in glory, spoke of his departure”?
JT The thought is rightly illustrated in full dress. They appeared “in glory”. It is a great scene, a scene of glory, and they are equal to it. The disciples were not; they did not have full dress; the two from heaven did. They represent the heavenly saints.
Ques Should we be equal to it spiritually?
JT Quite so; we should be so “in assembly”. The covenant helps us in that; it is “from glory to glory”, and we are fitted for the assembly thus.
Rem The apostle says, “For whether we are beside ourselves, it is to God”, 2 Corinthians 5:13.
JT That ought to be before us. It is as if Paul would say, When I think of God, what He is, and the calling on high, I am beside myself; he had such a grasp of it.
Ques Was Peter in it when he fell into an ecstasy; Acts 10?
JT Yes; he would be outside of natural reckonings, occupied with the spiritual realm. He was not caught up into heaven.