READINGS ON THE CORINTHIAN EPISTLES (4)
READINGS ON THE CORINTHIAN EPISTLES (4)
FER In chapter 11, as was stated last time, the point is the Lord; in chapter 12 the assembly — the one Spirit and the one body. The two chapters seem [p. 348] to present the two sides. Chapter 13 brings in a point of the very last moment, and that is what our true measure is for the assembly — any man’s capability, his measure for the assembly is made plain enough in this chapter.
W You mean that love is his measure.
FER Love is his measure. A man is only really qualified for the assembly in the measure in which he is formed in the divine nature.
Ques Do you speak now of the appreciation and enjoyment of it, or of capacity to be useful in it?
FER Well, I do not think he has any stature for it, any capability in that sense except as in the divine nature. A man’s capability, his stature for the assembly is defined in this chapter, and that is love. You see faith will not do. I meant faith in itself — not even endowment, not even gift — they do not qualify a man for the assembly — not even self-abnegation. You get three things spoken of: gifts, power, and self abnegation.
O Nor intelligence.
FER Nor intelligence. A man might know all prophecy, and have all knowledge. It really shows what is a very painful consideration, and that is, how far nature may go in divine things — the human mind, and yet after all without the person being a partaker of the divine nature.
Rem I think this was the “more excellent way” (1 Corinthians 12:31), for those who had got the divine nature.
FER I think it is the “more excellent way” for those who are in the bond of the Spirit. I think in the previous chapter they are completed as being in the bond of the Spirit.
WB Would you explain being in the bond of the Spirit?
FER “By one Spirit are we all baptised .. made to drink into one Spirit”, 1 Corinthians 12:13. They are all contemplated [p. 349] as being in that bond; then I think comes in the more excellent way.
WB I thought you might be a partaker of the divine nature, and yet not in the more excellent way.
FER I think the more excellent way is being a partaker of the divine nature.
O In contrast here with the best gifts of chapter 12.
FER Yes; there is something better than all that, because there is really something which is eternal and never fails.
Rem The divine nature is love.
FER Yes.
O Would you say that there could be the activity of the Spirit of God in the vessel not in connection with the activity of the divine nature?
FER I think so, I think that is possible, and is what is contemplated, that you might get the Spirit in that way, working, active, in a certain sense in connection with gift. But the point is this, the man himself is nothing: it is ‘I am nothing’. There is the power of the Spirit there, but he is nothing. Really it is a most humiliating thing in a way. Whereas if I have love. I am something according to God.
Ques Was not that the case with Balaam?
FER Yes, but it was not there in connection with the assembly; but in principle it is true. He was a vessel of the Spirit’s power beyond all doubt, yet after all he was nothing.
H In Matthew 16 where the Lord says, “On this rock I will build my assembly” there is something of the same sort as what we get here.
FER Yes. I think the rock is attachment to Christ.
A What is formed in the soul?
FER Yes, it is the Father’s revelation. Do you not see that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven? I think that is the rock.
Ques Did you say ‘attachment to Christ’?
FER Yes, I think it is the appreciation of Christ as the Son of the living God, and you cannot appreciate Him in that without being attached to Him. The instant the Father comes in, it appears to me the Father works all in connection with the divine nature. The teaching of the Father is the teaching of love. It is effective in that way.
O And that is really how the gates of hell do not prevail against it?
FER That is it. I cannot see how the gates of hell can prevail against the divine nature. The structure that is built up in that way, Satan is powerless against.
Ques Did I understand you that you thought the first three verses might apply to an unconverted man?
FER Yes, I could conceive of such a thing.
WB You mean an unconverted man who has got into the assembly somehow?
FER Yes, I think that may have been the case in early days.
H What about the man with the one talent? It was given to him, and he had it, too, according to his ability.
FER Well, the cases presented in the first two or three verses are imaginary or hypothetical. In a way they are persons. The man himself, so far as by himself is concerned, might be like sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal.
Rem I thought this was the practice of the divine nature.
FER No; the point that comes out in the first two or three verses is the absence of the divine nature, not the practice of it. That comes out afterwards. The man has everything in the way of endowment, and even self-abnegation, but he lacks the divine nature.
Ques Is every converted man formed in the divine nature?
FER [p. 351] No, I would not quite say that. I think there is no power to form a man in the divine nature until he has the Holy Spirit. You do not touch the divine nature until you get the Holy Spirit.
H I think there is an idea that when people are converted there is some deposit in them.
FER The beginning is, the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit Romans 5:5: that is the beginning of the divine nature; and then we “love him because he first loved us” 1 John 4:19. That is where I see the divine nature coming out.
H Then we get in Peter, “Whereby are given unto us ... divine nature”, 2 Peter 1:4.
FER Yes, “having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust”, 2 Peter 1:4.
H Then in point of fact, that which men think a good bit of, and I suppose the Corinthians thought a good bit of — that is, gift that gave them some prominence — these things might actually exist and yet the person himself be nothing.
FER Yes, that is the case contemplated, and mind you this, the impression which the two epistles make on me is that the apostle had very serious fear in regard to the Corinthians. I do not think he was without grave misgivings about some of them. That comes out very distinctly in the second epistle.
H They were boasting and all that sort of thing. In 2 Corinthians 12 he speaks of coming among them and finding them such as he would not, etc.
FER Yes, and that was after really they had proved their obedience. In the first epistle they had not really proved their obedience; in the second they had.
H They had proved their obedience in the mass as an assembly.
FER Yes.
Rem It says in 1 Corinthians 15, “Some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame”.
FER Well, that is rather grave to say the least of it, because that is moral and a moral defect of that kind is a very grave one.
Ques Does it not suppose that perhaps some were not converted?
FER Well, I think it comes out very definitely in the second epistle that they had taken up these things and had really come under the power of the Holy Spirit. I may be mistaken but I have an impression that people might come under the power and influence of the Holy Spirit that had no part whatever in the divine nature.
Ques. Hebrews 6?
FER Yes, I think so.
A “If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 16:22), etc.
FER Well, he puts them under a bann there.
Ques Could one have ‘all faith’ without being a partaker of the divine nature? Could that be true of an unconverted man?
FER The apostle seems to think so at any rate; he puts the possibility of it.
Ques You think ‘have not love’ means ‘have not the divine nature’?
FER Yes, I should say so.
Rem I thought the second verse clearly implied persons who had the Spirit of God, but were not in the practice of the divine nature.
FER I do not think that is the idea. I think the cases contemplated had not part in the divine life.
H But in regard to faith, is it not here more the gift of faith? It is not exactly the faith that links the soul with God.
FER No, I do not think the faith here is the faith that gives divine life. It is the faith by which a man might do mighty works; faith as a gift; “Have we not ... through thy name cast out demons, and [p. 353] through thy name done many works of power?” (Matthew 7: 22).
H It is quite clear that some who were unconverted might have faith; and others, devoted ones, real christians, might not have it, I mean, as a gift.
WB It is important to notice that it is put hypothetically. It is “though I have”.
FER Yes, but I think you must admit that it must be a serious case, the possibility of which is contemplated by the Holy Spirit. You must not lose the positive force of the first two or three verses. You do not gain anything by attempting to weaken that.
H It says that a man might have these things and yet not have love.
FER He might be in the external thing in the house, but I do not know that the man need be a dishonest man, because nature may go very far in divine things. How far nature may go in divine things without really a work of God in the soul is very clear from Hebrews 6. A man might be affected in a kind of way and be brought under the influence of the mighty power of the Holy Spirit which was manifest in early days.
O It is implied in chapter 1. “Enriched by him ... so that ye come behind in no gift”, 1 Corinthians 1:5-7.
FER Yes, I think the apostle fully recognises that — in regard of them, but his great fear was that they had not part in the divine nature.
EC A man might be under the administration of christianity without being a partaker of the divine nature.
FER I think it is a very solemn consideration how far it is possible for a man to take up divine things in the power of nature without there being a work of God in him. It is a possibility which is contemplated in Scripture.
O Is there not a good deal of evidence of it today in the way Scripture is quoted by people?
FER Yes, a very great many men have prominence [p. 354] in christendom in this day; I defy you to say whether they are converted or not, whether it is intelligence or the work of God.
H Here is the test, is it not?
FER Yes, but the test is in connection with the assembly, because if a man accepted this in connection with the assembly (I do not think you can cut this chapter altogether from the two preceding ones) you would have a pretty good test, because if he does not come into the assembly he does not really come into the sphere of love. It is all very fine to say that he has got love, but he does not come into the sphere and circumstances where love can be manifested.
A That is why you get the “more excellent way”, 1 Corinthians 12:31.
FER Yes, but this chapter is particular; it really comes in between chapters 12 and 14 and chapter 14 is the assembly.
Rem The beginning of chapter 14 is “follow after love”.
H It would help if you just said a word in regard to coming into the assembly. There are some who have a difficulty in regard to that.
FER What I mean is this, that the subject and point of these chapters is the assembly come together. The assembly is the sphere where we are tested. It is the sphere down here for the exercise of love. A man may say that he has got love, but if he is not in the circumstances and in the sphere where it is possible to exercise love, you have not got any very great proof of it.
Ques When you say ‘assembly’, do you mean those in the light of the assembly?
FER Well, I was speaking of the things in the early days. Take a christian in the time of the Corinthians, a man might say that he had love, but if he did not identify himself with the assembly, there was no sphere where he could exercise his love, because [p. 355] he had not come into the sphere where it was possible for love to have flow. You not only want to have love, but the sphere where love can be in exercise. “By this we know... brethren”, 1 John 5:2. That is, you have come into the circle.
Dr. R. Do you distinguish that from what is called philanthropy? Men of that class get into christianity now, of whom you could hardly say whether they were christians or not.
FER But to guard against that you get the positive characteristics of love given.
Ques Do you confine this love to the assembly, or does it not apply to the individual christian?
FER I have no doubt it does, but you have no sphere for love except in the assembly. It is the sphere God has provided for the exercise of the divine affections. It is like the sphere of natural affections in the family. If a man has not got a family he may have natural affections but you cannot know much about him in that way.
A The assembly is the sphere where everything is excluded except love.
FER I think so. It is the sphere and scene rather where everything is prompted and governed by love. Even the exercise of gifts — gifts of the Holy Spirit — all the gifts are subordinate to love.
H The present condition of ruin, the broken state of things in the assembly, increase the difficulty as to knowing how to get on.
FER Exceedingly difficult. But I think it has pressed home upon us the very great importance of really getting away from conditions and circumstances where it is not possible to walk in this way. Take people in the church or chapel; they may belong to a clique, and have great attraction to some particular clique; but it is that, and must be that, in some great church or chapel. Then there is a great deal of social distinction kept up which interferes very much with [p. 356] the exercise of divine affections, because divine affection rises above all moral distinction.
N Do you make a distinction between ‘assembly’ and ‘body’?
FER No; the assembly is the external thing in that way.
A The divine nature is really to deliver us from the systems of men.
WB You would hardly like to say that there was no manifestation of the divine nature except with those who are in our fellowship.
FER I do not say it is not there, but it is very greatly hindered and obscured.
WB Do you not think it is very much obscured among ourselves?
FER Well, we have a great advantage. We are found in circumstances where it is possible to walk in the manifestation of it.
Rem We have not two kinds of natures, one for those in fellowship, and another for those out of fellowship.
FER I do not think so. The first principle of divine affection is to take in the whole circle of God’s people, but then, of course, there is a narrower circle where there is more liberty for the exhibition of it.
WB It is very important to see that divine affection takes in all those who are christians.
FER Yes. “Every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him”, 1 John 5:1. That is important because “By this we know that we love the children of God when we love God and keep his commandments”, 1 John 5:2.
O You keep His commandments, that is the way you get enlarged. Your heart is enlarged to take in all the children of God.
H When the church was started in the Acts they continued steadfast in the apostles’ doctrine, etc.,
[p. 357] and there was none of this difficulty. The difficulty in the present day is enormous.
FER That verse just quoted is of the utmost importance, but do you think you could walk in the reality of the body and the new man if you were entangled in the systems? If you remained there you would not have the light of the body. God does not give them light until they leave it. But if they had light, do you think they could practise it?
H I think there would be very much to hamper them.
FER Because christians do not give the first place to christianity, but to other things. The social circle has a greater place with them than their christianity.
WB With many of them.
FER I should say with the bulk.
WB Yes, that is leaving room for certain exceptions.
FER Yes. But I am only speaking from my own memory of what it was. I do not believe that really it is possible to have scope or room for divine affections until you get free from all these entanglements. I think it is the greatest mercy that God has shown us, liberating us from worldly entanglements, so that we are really placed in conditions where there is room for the divine affections. I do not mean to say that there is much display of the divine nature in me, but I thank God that I am in circumstances where it is possible. The real beginning of it is in the fellowship of Christ’s death. You have to start there.
Rem Distinctions are gone there.
FER Yes, they are all gone; that is why chapter 10 comes in; it is preliminary.
O The exercise of the divine nature towards those who are in those circumstances would of necessity rouse their opposition, and therefore you cannot [p. 358] express it.
FER Yes, it makes a great barrier between you and them, because they want to remain where they are, and they resist any activity on your part to seek to bring them out.
H It is a very important question how far these affections are in exercise among ourselves.
FER Now you come to a very important point. In the middle of the chapter we get the alter ego. It gives a picture of what I am in the assembly.
Rem What you are as formed in the divine nature.
FER Yes. I refer to verses 4-7, which is a very good description of what one is for the assembly.
Rem And everywhere else.
FER If you are right in the assembly, you are right everywhere.
Rem You cannot be only an assembly man.
FER I am. I am nothing but an assembly man, because if I am right for the assembly I am right for everything.
WB Much depends on what is the meaning of ‘right for the assembly’.
FER The assembly presents the circle of christian affections, and if I am right in regard to that, I am right in regard to everything.
WB Yes, but now you are speaking of moral condition of soul, not of ecclesiastical position.
FER Oh, I do not think anything of position.
WB That is right. I think we are in danger of thinking ‘Come into our fellowship and you are all right’.
FER The secret is to give the Lord His place. The great point with me is I look at everything morally — even our very position as brethren, I look at it morally. The great point is this, that we have got free in a certain sense from unrighteousness. “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord withdraw from iniquity”, 2 Timothy 2:19. That is the value of our position, you have got free of iniquity, and you find yourself in [p. 359] conditions where it is really possible to walk in divine truth. But all that to my mind is moral.
A You have come to the company of the sanctifier and the sanctified.
FER Yes, it is possible there. If you have ecclesiastical arrangements an ordained clergyman, and so on, how can you have “He that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one”, Hebrews 2:11? It would be impossible.
—. H. Well, then, we enter upon this ground through death and resurrection.
FER Yes, that is, you are not a bit in accord with what is going on around you, that is with earthly religion, and even of the best kind. You are separated from it by the death of Christ, and the ground you are on is that you are risen together with Christ.
H If that is entered into it must throw out what our brother B. is thinking we are in danger of.
FER But then if I am something and somebody, the first three verses put me out as to what I am naturally. They contemplate the best things that can be naturally, and put me out; but then the next two or three verses bring me in morally — another ‘I’.
A It is a great point that we are nothing ecclesiastically, but that we should be everything morally.
FER But it is also that we should be something in the divine nature. What a magnificent description it is! It does not give very much about love in a kind of way, but there is the superiority of love both to evil in yourself and in what you have to meet. It is a principle that carries you superior to everything that is uncomely in yourself and to all that you may have to meet outside yourself.
H Why is it that it is presented so negatively there?
FER On account of the condition of things in which we are, so that there should be a complete setting aside of all that is uncomely in me and makes me a [p. 360] hindrance. Love makes me superior to all this evil I may have to meet. It would be a very great thing for myself if nobody saw anything that is uncomely in me. That is, I do not vaunt myself, am not puffed up, etc. All that tended in a kind of way to give prominence to me and to make me uncomely. Love puts me out of that way as to my own sense of things; but then there is another principle which carries me superior to the evil that I have to meet.
H I think it puts me in contrast to all that naturally characterises me as a man.
FER Yes, the apostle referred to what was actually going on in Corinth; there was a puffing up, etc.
Ques Is not the Lord great in His love?
FER Yes, that is where the Lord claims the pre-eminence. He is pre-eminent, but the pre-eminence which the Lord claims is the pre-eminence of love.
Rem All that is seen properly in the Lord Himself.
FER Yes, I think so, the point of it to me is that no person could fully describe it but a person who was in the reality himself of divine love.
FC It has been said that one might put ‘Christ’ instead of charity in this chapter.
FER I think one ought (I hope it will not be misunderstood), one ought to be able to individualise it. The point is love in its application to me.
Ques Would you say manifestation?
FER Well, I think it comes out in that way. I cannot understand love that does not come out in manifestation.
H In the Lord there was a positive presentation of God, but here it comes out rather in contrast to what man is naturally.
FER I think so. How do you think a man is going to be delivered from all these tendencies of the flesh? I am more and more convinced of the truth of what Mr. Stoney has urged over and over again,
[p. 361] that the secret of deliverance is being in the divine nature. “The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and of death” Romans 8:2. It is really only in the divine nature that you get free of the tendencies of the flesh. It is a tendency of the flesh to impute evil and rejoice in iniquity. People think it is too bad, but I really think it is a tendency of the flesh to rejoice in iniquity.
Rem The absence of the divine nature has been a fruitful cause of division.
FER The last great trouble we had was over the question of state, and those who left us really proved the justice of it all, because they were so extremely defective of state.
A By state you mean subjective state?
FER Yes, then I think you get another great point, in the close of the chapter, that love puts you where God is.
A Does not love put God first?
FER Yes, but the wonderful thing to us is that love properly speaking puts you where God is.
Ques What verse do you refer to?
FER The latter part of the chapter; “love never fails”, 1 Corinthians 13:8. We have knowledge and prophecies down here. There are no knowledge and prophecies where God is.
H Knowledge is comparative.
FER Yes; they will all fail, but love will not fail; it puts you where God is. Then again you [p. 362] have faith and hope and love. There is no faith and hope with God, so that love puts you where God is.
WB That needs a little more opening up.
FER What I mean is this, that knowledge and prophecies both contemplate the actual presence of the saint down here; so too faith and hope; but neither one nor the other are with God. Therefore if I am in love I am with God, I am above all these things.
WB If we are in love, have faith and hope no place?
FER I do not think they have place for the moment. I quite admit they are the ordinary conditions of christian life down here; but in the great reality of love you find yourself where God is.
A Is not that the force of “He that dwelleth in love, dwelleth in God, and God in him” (1 John 4:16)?
FER Yes.
N “When that which is perfect is come” (1 Corinthians 13:10), What is that ‘perfect’?
FER I think it refers to knowledge, that there is no more occasion for knowledge when everything is displayed. What carries a man into the holiest is love. If you enter into the holiest “by the new and living way which he has dedicated for us through the veil, that is, his flesh”, Hebrews 10:20. I think it is that you approach the heart of God. Love is the quality for the holiest. Do you not think so?
H I am sure of that.
FER I do not think any other quality will bear a man in the holiest except love. So, too, in regard to the heavenly places “He has raised us up”. It is because of “His great love wherewith he loved us, we too being dead in offences, has quickened us with the Christ... has raised us up together and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus”, Ephesians 2:4-6. I think nothing will bear you in the heavenly places except love.
Rem Otherwise you would be always fearing.
FER Yes, “perfect love casteth out fear”, 1 John 4:18. I feel confident of that, that love carries really to where God is, that is, above all questions of knowledge and prophecies, faith and hope. I quite admit as long as you are down here you have got to do with knowledge and prophecies, and faith and hope, but I see that a principle has come in which is really greater than all [p. 363] these which can and does carry the saints right above these things to God Himself.
Rem There is nothing to be reached then.
FER Nothing to be reached! Supposing you were in the assembly and consciously in the holiest of all, you do not for the moment want knowledge and prophecies, nor do you want faith and hope.
Rem Everything is reached.
FER God is reached in the consciousness of His love. Of course it may be but for a moment, and we are still actually in the body down here, and have to walk in the ordinary conditions of life, and then knowledge and prophecies and faith and hope have to come in.
Rem You speak of the state of abstraction.
FER The apostle says, “I am beside myself to God”, 2 Corinthians 11:23. When he came to circumstances he wanted knowledge and prophecies and faith and hope.
H And after all it is true that “a man in Christ” is somewhat of an abstraction.
FER Yes, that is evident. “Such a one caught up to the third heaven” (2 Corinthians 12:2) is a man “in Christ”, and not Paul in the body.
Ques “Sober ... for your cause”, would not that bring in the working of divine love?
FER Yes, but everything came into reckoning, and the apostle could make uncommonly good use of knowledge and prophecies, and press upon them the need of faith and love.
WB Do you think, when he spoke of being beside himself, that he referred to the company, that he experienced it when gathered with the saints?
FER I do not think so, quite; he says “to God” I am beside myself.
WB Then that gives a very individual thought.
FER I do not think there is anything properly individual. In the wilderness you get what is individual; everything on the other side of Jordan is collective.
[p. 364] In the call of God I do not think there is anything individual.
Ques “Apprehend with all the saints” (Ephesians 3:18), does that take in the thought?
H “Caught up to the third heaven” (2 Corinthians 12:2) was rather an exceptional case.
FER Quite so; it was in connection with his apostolic work, that he might have demonstration as to the things he preached.
H “A man in Christ” is abstraction?
FER It must be.
WB That needs explaining to some of us.
FER It views the christian in that way outside of a very great deal that he has to do with down here — outside of that which is not new creation. “If any one be in Christ, there is a new creation”, 2 Corinthians 5:17. It seems to me that nothing in Scripture is clearer than that.
Ques. Than what?
FER Than what has just been said, that if “any one... all things are of the God ..”., 2 Corinthians 5:17,18.
WB But may an individual christian be a “man in Christ”, at one moment and not a “man in Christ” at another?
FER No. You must not reason like that. The point is this, that a man in Christ is new created, but at the same time he is living in a kind of mixed condition, to have to do down here with things that are not of new creation. You cannot bring into new creation relationships which are of the old creation, and infirmities, and the like; nor those social relationships that all have their part in God’s creation down here, but that do not belong to new creation. In Christ there is neither male nor female, Galatians 3:28.
O An ‘out of the world heavenly condition of things’.
FER Yes, but that is abstraction.
Dr. M. “When I became a man” (1 Corinthians 13:11), what is that?
FER When he grew up to be a man: it is an [p. 365] illustration. I think there are certain things which are suited to children and certain things suited to manhood. When I was a boy I used to play boyish games; but when I became a man, I put off those things. But they do not do that in these days, they want to continue the childish things.
A Does the apostle refer to love there?
FER The apostle is working to show the superiority of love, even to everything that we have as christians down here, to every other condition, and the point is to show you really, in the very fact of love being above these things, that love leads you to God.
O It is a contrast between an imperfect and a perfect state.
A What you have been speaking of as an abstraction is the highest blessing that could reach a man down here.
FER Well, in the eye of God what is left of you and me? What I see in the cross is this, man was entirely removed, nothing was left there but the love of God. When Christ died there was the complete removal of man, and the residue that was left was the love of God. Then the next step is, I see this, that the love of God is the great formative principle in any man, and the principle of it comes out in this chapter.
A What do you understand by “I shall know... as I also have been known”, 1 Corinthians 13:12?
FER Well, I think it is completely knowing all round, instead of knowing in detail.