THE RIGHTS AND PATIENCE OF GOD IN TESTIMONY (6)
[p. 85] THE RIGHTS AND PATIENCE OF GOD IN TESTIMONY (6)
JT As was pointed out this morning, in chapter 1 one man falls; and in chapter 2, another is taken up to the heavens. The first, that is the king of Israel, representing in our own times the responsible element in the sphere of profession, falls through the lattice, which could not afford great support, nor is it intended for this, and he becomes sick. The responsible element is thus marked by moral disease, and is fallen; the full expression of it will be in Babylon — “Great Babylon has fallen”. Indeed the book of Revelation is marked, in a sense, by certain things falling, and others being elevated. We are to consider now the thought of what is taken up, and what will be observed is not only the fact of Elijah’s translation to heaven but the time of it; it says, “when Jehovah would take up Elijah into the heavens ...”; the time of the rapture of the assembly is, we may say, now: that is, since the revival of the truth, the thought of the Lord’s coming, the rapture of the assembly, was regarded and rightly so, as just pending, as imminent. What follows is in view of the rapture of the saints, and, in order that the significance of the chapter may be clear, we should see that it is not only the rapture of the assembly, it is a type of Christ’s ascension too, and this enters into the ascension of the assembly: because undoubtedly the man child caught up to God and His throne, includes His body, the assembly (Revelation 12: 5). So that it is “when” Jehovah would take him up — the time of it, and what follows in view of that.
PL You get the idea of time with the Lord in the gospel of Luke — the time of His receiving up, before He actually went.
JT That corresponds; you get that in Luke 9,
[p. 86] but historically it did not take place until after He was risen from the dead, as recorded in the last chapter of Luke, but much intervened. Luke 9 also gives us the transfiguration of Christ, and the word from the Father, “This is my beloved Son: hear him”. Moses and Elijah spoke with Him of His decease which He should accomplish at Jerusalem, and, what should intervene was that He should be heard.
Ques You referred to what followed in view of Elijah’s translation: had you in mind the different places to which he had to go?
JT That is right, and you will observe that Elijah went with Elisha. It is a credit to Elisha that it is not said, ‘Elisha went with Elijah’, but that “Elijah went with Elisha”; there was already a move in Elisha’s soul in that direction. Resurrection and ascension are by the way of death; we must go that way. There are many who talk much about the coming of the Lord, but who have no thought of moving to Gilgal. The word is that “when Jehovah would take up Elijah into the heavens by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal”, so Elisha is already moving in his mind from the place of death.
Ques Do you think the prophet is instructing Elisha here, as to the way the moral end is to be reached before translation is actually effectuated?
JT I think that is the thought, that we should not only have the doctrine of the coming of the Lord, but be ready for it; so that the movement is from Gilgal to Bethel, from Bethel to Jericho, from Jericho to the Jordan: that is the moral way to ascension.
Ques Perhaps you would tell us what those features mean?
JT There is much there to occupy us. I should like the brethren to get clear as to the time of the ascension, when Jehovah would do it — for it is not simply that He would do it, but when He would do it. Then the state of Elisha is such that Elijah goes with him,
[p. 87] for he is already in movement in his mind. It says “Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal” — that is the starting-point; the place of circumcision where the flesh is set aside in its energy: it is disallowed. Bethel is, of course, as no doubt most of us know, the house of God, an important feature of the truth to visit in the company of such a man as Elijah. How Elisha would be impressed! The great spirituality of Elijah would be felt in those surroundings.
Rem The fact of their coming from Gilgal would make them ready for Bethel.
JT I thought that was the moral starting point. If people talk about the coming of the Lord, then you would enquire what are their living associations. It is somewhat noxious to be talking about things and ignoring the circumstances to which they apply morally. Ascension properly belongs to people who are residing at Gilgal; God will not take up the flesh in any way whatever. It is a question, therefore, of where we are in the state of our souls. That is the point in it — “circumcised with circumcision not done by hand, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of the Christ”, Colossians 2: 11.
Ques You spoke of the time. Do you imply that it is a question of the condition of the saints?
JT I thought the time synchronises with the Lord’s coming. The Lord says, “I am the root and offspring of David”. “The Spirit and the bride say, Come”. It is a question of state, and that state belongs to Gilgal, where the reproach of Egypt is rolled away, and the flesh judged unsparingly. It is “when Jehovah would take up Elijah into the heavens by a whirlwind”. The times and seasons the Father reserves. “Of that day or of that hour no one knows, neither the angels who are in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father”, Mark 13: 32. A remarkable statement! a statement that we ought to well weigh just now, as to the place that a divine Person took in saying, “... nor the Son, but the Father”. But the state of the saints synchronises with that time — I think that is the way the scripture puts it.
Rem “And every one that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure”, 1 John 3: 3. That is your thought, and you would look for a revival of affections before the Lord’s shout is heard.
JT Yes. Then you would become conversant with what God has here, that is, His house. We are going to heaven to the Father’s house. People talk of that very much who have never had a thought of the house down here; the house down here is the point now, that is Bethel. That was the great issue in the days of the Bethesda conflict; it was a question of the house of God and the order of it. That is really what this alludes to. I mean the saints are directed by the teaching here to Bethel, and under the greatest advantage. That is, Elijah is going himself with Elisha to Bethel: it is not like reading ministry about the house of God. It is the Lord going with you; He is so intent on your going, that He goes with you, to make sure that you get some idea of the house, that God has a place down here in which He resides, where His love is known, where Christ as Son is over it and orders it. He is very intent on that, that saints should get from Himself a true idea of the house. The Lord says, “the bondman abides not in the house for ever”; the idea of the bondman is not continuous in the house, but “the son abides for ever. If therefore the Son shall set you free, ye shall be really free”, John 8: 35 - 36. As Elijah went with Elisha to Bethel, what thoughts would come in! Elijah full of the thoughts of God, alluding back to Jacob’s time. It says in chapter 18: 31 of the previous book, “the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom the word of Jehovah came saying, Israel shall be thy name” — Elijah would impress Elisha with all that enters into this place, Bethel.
Rem Paul in his letter to Timothy emphasises the house of God — “that thou mayest know how one ought to conduct oneself in God’s house”, 1 Timothy 3: 15.
Rem Hiel, who built Jericho, is said to be a Bethelite: he did not stop at Gilgal.
JT That is a serious matter. He is professedly a churchman, as we may say, yet he is building Jericho, building up the world; but Elisha will never do that! Elijah would impress him with what the house is. When Jacob went up to Bethel he had to put away all the idols, and he commanded his house to do it.
Ques Why is Jericho the next step?
JT I think it is that we may be imbued with the power that overthrows the world. Luke says that the Lord entered Jericho and passed through. What thoughts would enter the Lord’s heart as He passed through the city, reverting back in mind to the 6th of Joshua! The Lord would be full of the thought, and as he passed through it Zacchaeus was there, a man who wanted to see the Lord, who He was — a Man that “passed through” Jericho. The believer is to be imbued with the power of God in the overthrow of the world.
Ques When you spoke of going from Gilgal, did you mean one should go through this world with the death of Christ upon him?
JT That is right, the idea is circumcision, something rolled away — the reproach of Egypt, that would be the world, is rolled away, and the house of God brings in another world, another order of things. It is there that you get disclosures. Jacob went there, and God says, “I am the God of Bethel”, He made known to Jacob who He was.
Ques Would you say the truth of baptism and of the Son of God would be before them?
JT Quite so. At Peniel, the “man” refuses to tell him his name, but Jehovah told him His name in His house.
Rem Elijah calls him Elisha here at Bethel, not before. It was there that God said to Jacob, “Thy [p. 90] name shall not henceforth be called Jacob, but Israel”, — a prince, Genesis 32: 28.
JT Yes, we are ennobled as God discloses things to us; we are made fit for the place.
Ques What is the thought as to Elisha being challenged from time to time to remain at each spot?
JT Well, it is a challenge to you as to whether you are satisfied with the point reached? Many are satisfied with an acquired reputation; we might stop there; but we miss the mind of God if we do. Satan would keep us there, but I suppose Elijah knew — the Lord knows anyway, what is in us, and He challenges our hearts at each point as to what is there — and what comes out is that Elisha will not leave Elijah.
Rem The Lord had moral elevation before Him in Philippians, but it was through death — “let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus”; He “becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of the cross”.
JT Yes. I think the idea of getting a name in the place is a test. Someone gives me a reputation, that is, my name becomes known among the brethren, and I stop there; I, so to speak, make that my little home. That will not do! That is the end of my growth till I judge it. Elisha shows he is equal to all this: he seeks no reputation — “I will not leave thee”, he says.
PL Is not movement with Paul accentuated after he gets his name changed?
JT Yes, that is good — in Acts 13 you mean. He got a name in most extraordinary circumstances. He and Barnabas went from Antioch and took ship and set out for Cyprus. They went the length of the island, and apparently got no converts; then they met a man called Bar-jesus, who is a son of the devil — there is not much encouragement in him — but Saul deals with him, and is then called Paul — “who also is Paul”. He always kept to that, a reputation that would mean “less than the least” of all. So God gives him the [p. 91] distinction of having a company immediately; a man who has no reputation is owned of God — “Paul and his company”.
Rem King Saul was told by Samuel to go to Gilgal and wait, but instead of doing that, he acted to secure his own position (1 Samuel 13: 11). We see the contrast there.
JT Just so. What he did was right in his own eyes, and in doing so he writes himself down as unspiritual.
Ques In regard to what you said about stopping at some of these places, would it encourage us to go on if we remembered we carry with us from each stage something with which to go on to the next, so that we leave nothing behind, but rather accumulate substance?
JT I think that is right. Going down to Jericho would be the next point after Bethel where we have proved the reality of the house — but can that stand in the presence of the world? How will you get on? Men say, ‘You are nobodies; you have no organisation, no means to carry this on. Look what we have got!’ Well, I think that going to Jericho would remind us of the power of God against the world, that we can cope with all that, by the power of God.
PL Do all these things come before us in John’s gospel? The Son of man lifted up — Gilgal. Then you have all the privileges and secrets of the house in those chapters that follow chapter 12. Then “be of good courage: I have overcome the world” — is that Jericho?
JT That is right, “Now is the judgment of this world; now shall the prince of this world be cast out” (John 12: 31), then, “be of good courage: I have overcome the world”, John 16: 33.
Ques Is the power known through attachment to the Person?
JT Quite so. What you get over Jordan is the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof. They do not go up to heaven; it is a mistake to think Elijah went up in them — “Elijah went up by a whirlwind into the heavens”, that is what was native there; the chariot of Israel remains here, it is the power for the overthrow of Jericho, that is the idea.
PL Does that power multiply as the exigencies of the testimony demand it? So the young man, the servant of Elisha, in chapter 6: 17, sees a great number of these chariots.
JT That is the idea, so even the king of Israel, when he saw Elisha for the last time, when he was dying, said, “the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof!” (2 Kings 13: 14). That was Elisha’s gift and it entered into his ministry.
Rem You could not understand Jericho if you had not been through Gilgal and Bethel.
JT The point is, Bethel is secured in your mind; the principles of the house must be carried through. The principles in themselves are needed as light, but the support is in the power of God; it is by the Spirit of God we are sustained, not only by light. The power is the Spirit and the Spirit of God is in the house, and it is the same power that overthrew Jericho that is with us.
Ques It says in John’s epistle, “Who is he that gets the victory over the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” 1 John 5: 5. Would the knowledge of the Son of God be connected with Bethel?
JT Yes. He is over the house.
Ques Would it be correct to say that in the measure in which we are in the enjoyment and practical gain of the house of God, we are conscious of the power of God? I was thinking of Psalm 36 and 37. They are abundantly satisfied with the fatness of God’s house, and then they trust in the Lord, delight in Him, commit their way to Him, and rest in Him. The soul seems to be conscious of the power and victory [p. 93] of God.
JT Yes, and then we take account of the kind of way it comes. The people of God march round Jericho morning by morning — a most unheard of procedure in military matters, ridicule attached to it: but it is the manner of the power of God in overthrowing the world. They march round day by day blowing with the trumpets, “That the surpassingness of the power may be of God, and not from us”, 2 Corinthians 4: 7. Had they used dynamite, as men do, or battering rams, and all that paraphernalia, the excellency of the power would have been of themselves. There is nothing to exalt the flesh in God’s procedure. The walls fall down flat, through the power of God. That is the lesson of Jericho; but that is not all. Death has to be overcome. Not only have we to understand the overthrow of the world: many of us may have left the world, and perhaps overcome it — but we are afraid of death. Colossians meets that: “ye have been also raised with him through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead”, Colossians 2: 12. That is another lesson.
Rem Jezebel is not in view here, but she is not dead yet; this conflict is deeper.
JT Yes, she is in the distance, so to speak. This is a matter that comes in when the time of ascension is in view, it is a deeper thing than we have had before. The chapters of the first book which we have had before us, relate more to what is public in christendom, the great sphere of profession that belongs to God, and in which He is operating through most extraordinary instruments. But here we come to the inner thing, to what is wholly spiritual, seen in Elisha, and all is in the light of the ascension, to fit us for it; and not simply that, but to fit us to hold the ground here pending that time, so that there might be a testimony, however short, whether it be days or months or years. God is set on the testimony. The enemy flourishes himself, but seeing the Lord in the assembly is open to us. Elisha is with Elijah and cleaving to him, as it says, of the believers at Antioch, that “with purpose of heart to abide with the Lord”.
Ques Is faith more characteristic of Colossians than power, and power more connected with Ephesians?
JT The people went over Jordan on dry ground. The type in Joshua, of Colossians 2, is to show the power of Christ in death, that He is concerned about your going over; that is the thought in that type. The people were in the land before the ark, which is a remarkable thing. The point being, not that Christ goes to heaven, but that He holds back the forces of death till we go over. The ark is in the bed of the Jordan, till all the saints go over. This passage enters into that, but Elijah is going the reverse way here, he is going out of the land.
Ques What would be the thought in Elisha re-crossing the Jordan?
JT The first crossing is Christ Himself taking us over.
Rem For Jordan is our death with Him.
JT But you cross Jordan by yourself. Elijah wrapped his mantle together. I think it is the whole power entirely used: the mantle denotes the person, what he is; that is, of course what Christ is. Christ is not a formation, the believer is a formation, but Christ is a divine Person, He is the Son of God. The power is all there, “the exceeding greatness” of the divine power is there. The wrapping together accentuates the force. Elisha does not do that, he just uses the mantle, without anything being said about wrapping it together. In fact, it would have been unseemly for him to have done that. Elijah wraps it together, that is, he gives it all its force — the figure is of a divine Person coming into death.
Ques Why does Elijah say constantly, “Abide here”?
JT It is to test the heart. You might say, ‘The Lord told me to stay’. Sometimes circumstances indicate [p. 95] that you may legitimately take a certain course, and accordingly you justify yourself in taking it, whereas undivided consideration for the Lord and His interests would lead otherwise. Thus your heart is exposed. For instance, Balaam made a pretentious speech, he would not go without the Lord’s commandment; but all the time he wanted to go, he “loved the reward of unrighteousness”, and God knew that. He would go, and so God said, “Go”, and he went; but God met him and sought to slay him. So Elisha’s saying, “I will not leave thee” means he would not be diverted; he goes the whole way, and he gets the fullest blessing.
Ques Is that why at the Jordan we get three times over, “They two”? How that emphasises the identification of Elijah with Elisha!
JT Yes, and “they went on, and talked”, a most beautiful thought growing out of determination to be with the Lord.
PL Do you get the thought in “part with me”, and then the wonderful talking afterwards in John 13 and onward?
JT Yes. They “went on, and talked”. What holy converse! It is well worth while going the whole way!
Rem Three times Elisha states he will not leave Elijah, then in verse 9, Elijah says he will be taken away from him, not that he will leave him: then there are the chariot and horses of fire that part them asunder.
JT Yes. “Ask what I shall do for thee, before I am taken away from thee”. I think that the difficulty generally, and one might almost say, always, is, that we do not go all the way, we do not go on to perfection. We stop at Bethel perhaps, or some place where there is a bit of distinction. Going over Jordan takes me out of the world altogether.
Ques If we go the whole way, we are confirmed so that Elijah can go with Elisha?
JT Yes; and as we get over Jordan there is holy [p. 96] converse; as we might say, communing on equal terms. It is the Colossian position really. “I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me”. That is a fine thought, “A double portion of thy spirit”, not “the Spirit”. Of course typically it is the Holy Spirit, but it is “thy spirit”; he says, “Let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me”. He says, ‘I am so taken up with that Person, I want His spirit’ — it is “the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ”. I want His spirit, but a double portion of it. It brings out the great appreciation Elisha had of his master, of Elijah; that typifies the great appreciation the saint has who has come to know Jesus, as of Him and of His Spirit. You want the Spirit of that Man, you want it in abundance — a double portion — and where that is, no power can resist you.
Ques Would it be right to connect Philippians 3 with this? When Paul speaks of suffering the loss of all things, he passed through Jericho. Then he speaks of pursuing, if by any means he might “arrive at the resurrection from among the dead”.
JT That is the point — to attain to it in your soul, not simply to hold the doctrine of it, but to know it “through faith of the working of God, who raised him from among the dead” — it is that power.
Ques “The excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord”. Is that the double portion of His spirit?
JT Quite so, “Not I, but Christ”. But then he would come out in the spirit of Christ, and that is what the Lord had in mind in breathing into His disciples. They valued the Lord, they were glad when they saw Him: then He says, “Receive the Holy Spirit”.
Ques It says, “if any one has not the Spirit of Christ he is not of him”, Romans 8: 9. Is that the same Spirit, not the Holy Spirit exactly?
JT I think so, it is the Spirit of Christ. His Spirit would be the Holy Spirit for us, but it is more the character that is in view. This is the great type here of the coming down of the Spirit as establishing [p. 97] christianity, but I think it is important to see that Elisha is a man who is taken up with his master — he says, “thy spirit”.
Rem In the conversation, you have the ministry of one who is with the Lord, then the double portion of the Spirit would give force to the application.
JT Quite so. You want to come out in this spirit. Philippians is full of the filling out of this — “the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ”, Philippians 1: 19.
Ques Do you not think we help each other more by the kind of spirit that governs us than by what we say?
JT I think so, so you have the idea of showing — “Show thyself to Ahab”. This is the kind of thing he saw.
Rem I was thinking of what he says to Philemon, “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit”.
JT Yes. Then verse 11 says, “And it came to pass as they went on, and talked, that behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire; and they parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into the heavens”. They did not want to part, the position is, they are talking, they were in holy converse! It was the power of God that separated them; it is what God is doing, it is very suitable. God had come in here, it is the rights of God in this setting — He was parted — it was not his own action, it was a question of the power of God.
PL So with Paul and the disciples, in one instance they tore themselves away.
JT Quite so, they did not want to be parted. Nor did the saints at Antioch wish Paul and Barnabas to leave — they “let them go”. It is a question of God, it is right that God should always come in in regard to Christ, and the lovers of God allow that. It is a question of what God does.
Ques In connection with verse 12, is the double portion of Elijah’s spirit known in our getting an apprehension of the chariot of fire and the horsemen thereof as they marked Elijah’s ministry?
JT “If thou see me when I am taken from thee ...” It is a matter of seeing him in the manner in which he is taken from him. In the Lord’s case they saw Him go up, and the men said to them, “This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, shall thus come in the manner in which ye have beheld him going into heaven”, Acts 1: 11. I suppose the seeing Him go, seeing Him parted and going, involves light as to the manner of ascension: the message through Mary was, “I ascend”. We get the idea in our souls of going up — the manner of it.