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DIVINE OPERATIONS IN THE ASSEMBLY READING (5)

SMcC I thought that, this morning, we should look at certain features of the service of God in relation to the assembly. This subject is brought up in connection with these two women in John’s gospel, and one is concerned, in view of what was said last night, that we should approach it not so much in a doctrinal manner, but from the side of spiritual power. We would not in any sense minimise the importance of doctrine, for the Lord Himself says in this gospel, “My doctrine is not mine, but that of him that has sent me” (John 7: 16). It is thought, however, that we might get help in approaching our subject from the side of spiritual feeling and power, having in mind the teaching that comes out in the Lord’s service to these women. In John 4 it is brought in by the Lord in such an informal yet remarkable way. It is noteworthy that the Spirit is stressed at this particular juncture as the thought of the service of God is approached. Power is needed for this, and we are all tested as to just what we have reached in the way of experience in the conscious sense of the Spirit being with us and in us, and whether we make room for Him and the great order of things suggested in the “springing up into eternal life”. I thought we might get help in considering it this morning from this viewpoint and perhaps this afternoon we might see the assembly in relation to it in the different settings in the epistles.

AEM Is the approach in John’s gospel on the basis of the family of God?

SMcC Yes. It is remarkable how John would impress us with the thought of the family of God right from the outset. His distinctive touches regarding it contrast with the synoptic gospels in a remarkable way.

AEM Would you say that we have to approach the service of God having in mind our relations with one another in the family of God?

SMcC Just so. Love comes into John’s writings in such a wonderful way as it is seen in divine Persons and in the family of God. We shall never arrive at the truth rightly unless we do so from this basis, because the thought of the family of God promotes confidence in one another and strengthens our links with one another.

LES Might I read the verse I think you are alluding to? “But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to be children of God, to those that believe on his name; who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh’s will, nor of man’s will, but of God” (John 1: 12 - 13).

SMcC That is a very striking expression and we should note the word “Exousia” in the footnote. This is a remarkable word because it would seem as if, from the standpoint of what was moving in Jerusalem in relation to the Lord’s presence and ministry, the Spirit of God would emphasise the legality of the position of the family of God. Whatever the Jews, the priests and the levites may take away from them, the Spirit of God emphasises the legality of the position of the family of God.

- .G. Is there a fine distinction between “flesh’s will” and “man’s will”, the second perhaps being more difficult to be relieved of in regard to the service of God?

SMcC It is important that we should see the fine distinctions made by John. We would have put them all together, but John says; “who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh’s will, nor of man’s will, but of God”. I think it is important to see how ‘will’, in whatever way it may be viewed, is put out of court in the light of the family of God. In considering the worship of God in John 4, the Lord’s words to the woman would impress us with the necessity for a right apprehension of Christ objectively coupled with a right apprehension and a conscious enjoyment of the Spirit, as in the living water. John the Baptist’s reference to Christ in the end of chapter 3 is unique. He is a man whose joy is fulfilled, and we are thus in the presence of something that is completed. It was said of John the Baptist, when in his mother’s womb, that the babe leaped for joy as Elizabeth saluted Mary, the mother of our Lord, but here we are in the presence, not of the beginning of his joy, but of its completion in the introduction of the bride and the bridegroom. The bride has an essential part in regard to the service of God, but in John’s ministry it is introduced informally. An allusion was made last night to the way in which John refers to it and how it forms a special part of his ministry, “He that has the bride is the bridegroom”.

AJG Is it not characteristic of John’s ministry that he gives us the truth informally? Without exactly naming it, he gives us the thing vitally in the power of the Spirit.

SMcC That helps us today in our approach to the service of God as seen in connection with the assembly, because we are so inclined to approach it from an academic standpoint, whilst John emphasises the great matter of life.

AH Do you think that John, in bringing in the family, has in mind to sweep away the ecclesiastical system so that God may be ministered to according to Himself?

SMcC Just so. We were speaking of ecclesiastical unrighteousness, and righteousness yesterday. We can see in John 1 how the counter-movements from Jerusalem are baffled by what is coming in from heaven. They do not understand and are in perplexity as to what the truth is. The Spirit of God, through John the evangelist, stresses the legal position of the family of God, the children of God.

GRC It seems striking that the worship of the Father and of God, in this chapter and in chapter 20, is communicated to a woman, where the Lord says, “I ascend to my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God” (John 20: 17). Could you help us as to the thought of the family and the idea of a woman coming in?

SMcC I think there is something to be noted in the fact that the most wonderful touches as to the service of God and the worship of God come to us through the Lord’s service to two women, one of whom He serves as a Prophet and the other as a Teacher, “Rabboni”. We are not seeking to discredit the twelve in any sense, but it is illuminating that, in John’s ministry, which bears on the last days, the official element is not in the foreground, but rather what is informal and unofficial, as suggested in these two women who remind us of the assembly.

AJG Are you suggesting that affection, as suggested in a woman, is a necessary basis for the truth, but affection that needs to be delivered from an unlawful object and centred on a lawful object, that is Christ? Her affections become governed by the intelligence the teacher would afford.

SMcC That is exactly what is in mind. The introduction of the woman in John 4, immediately following John 3, is significant on account of the unique reference to Jesus in verse 1 of chapter 4. It is unique. John has not used the word “Lord” before, “When therefore the Lord”. Others call Him “Rabbi” and speak to Him in that light, but in chapter 3: 35, it says, “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand”, which indicates that the economy in a formal way, and administration are committed to the Son. It then says, “When therefore the Lord knew”. That is, we get the administrative side impressed on our minds which is followed by the woman coming into our view.

GRC Is your thought that the Lord’s service, in a prophetic way, disentangles the woman, sets her affections on a legitimate object, and makes way for the positive teaching of John 20?

SMcC Just so. We shall never arrive at the fulness of the truth as to the worship of God, unless Christ personally and objectively, and the Spirit, have a right place in our affections and in our minds. Mr. Taylor, years ago, in referring to John the Baptist’s statement, “he that has the bride is the bridegroom”, asked how the bride came in? Did she come in through baptism or through the Lord’s supper? She comes in through the apprehension of the greatness of Christ and the power of the Spirit. John the Baptist’s testimony bearing on the greatness of Christ is followed by what we have in John 4. “Come see a man”, shows how that Man eclipsed the woman’s affections - that is Christ Himself. Then there is the living water; the Spirit in His energetic movements and service to us, having in mind the order of things indicated in eternal life and the worship of God.

PL “For through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father” (Ephesians 2: 18). This would help us in seeing that the greatness of Christ and the greatness of the Spirit are essential to the service of God.

SMcC Yes. Ephesians 2 reminds us of the mediatorial system, and John’s gospel shows the essential need of that system. “God is a spirit, and they who worship him must worship him in spirit and truth.” That verse brings out the necessity for the mediatorial system, and the mediatorship of Christ which is referred to so much in this gospel.

AEM Would you say that we must come under the operations of the economy before we can worship God in the full light of His revelation? I am alluding to John 3: 34, “for God gives not the Spirit by measure”.

SMcC Yes, I think what you say is important: the whole economy has been designed that we might know the God whom we worship. The relations the economy brings before us are that we should know the God whom we worship. That is why God has come out in these specified relations indicated in the Father and the Son.

WSS Do we have a wonderful outline in this section of the operations in the economy: the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, the man and the woman, the bride and the bridegroom?

SMcC We do. It is unique here. As John opens his gospel he would impress us with the way God has tangibly come within our range. God is a Spirit and this necessitates the mediatorial system. What comes to light in it is that God has drawn near so as to be apprehended and known in a tangible way. “The only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father” (John 1: 18) has in mind that we should know God tangibly and this reference, “the water which I shall give him shall become in him a fountain of water, springing up into eternal life”, stresses tangibility in the Spirit.

WSS I was thinking of what was remarked as to the necessity of our spirits entering into these things in view of the service of God.

SMcC That is why John writes so distinctively of the unique place Christ has in sonship and all the spiritual excellence that is linked with it as in John 1: 18, and here in the reference to the living water becoming in him a fountain of water springing up into eternal life. We are tested as to what we know of God come so near to us tangibly in the economy.

APCL In verse 15 the matter is exceedingly attractive to the woman. As a result of the Lord’s presentation of the water she desires it, and it is not until that point that He raises other matters with her.

SMcC It is very interesting, showing how the moral question must come up. It is important to recognise that in most cases where there is disaffection as to the truth, a moral issue underlies, and I am sure that the Lord would help us to be like this woman and be affected by things tangibly. We are so prone, I speak for myself, to approach the worship of God from an academic standpoint and to try to work out things just from the principle of light. That is important, but we want to get an impression as to the tangibility of God who, although He is a Spirit, has come within our range in the mediatorial system in Christ as Man.

Rem Does it appear from verses 11 and 12 that the woman is surrounded by that which would keep her at a distance from God?

SMcC Just so. The service of the Lord Jesus here is to impress her with divine nearness.

JSE I was thinking of your allusion to chapter 4, “when therefore the Lord ... “ This word ‘Sir’ is the same is it not?

SMcC It shows how the woman comes into line with what is in mind in the operation of the administration; there is a dignity about the Person which impresses us that the administration is in divine hands. Although this is faintly perceived by the woman to begin with, yet something is arrived at. She comes to more later.

CMM What is the link between eternal life and the service of God?

SMcC Eternal life has a relative position in connection with the service of God. That idea must underlie the service of God, as the service of God involves a living state of things. That life not only affects us operatively, but we are brought into a sphere of life where the pressure of death is lifted off our spirits.

GRC The great sphere of life in Genesis was not complete until the man and the woman were there. Do you think the great sphere of eternal life, spiritually, requires, for its fulness, the man and the woman?

SMcC It does. The woman is very interesting in that light, because Jerusalem comes up for review early in John. In the first chapter the Spirit of God, through John the evangelist, gives us a view of what exists there. In Nicodemus we get another view of the position, because it reminds us of what is around. Where is the woman in what is around? The woman is left out.

HSM Would you say a little more as to the tangibility of God? Are the three Persons in mind?

SMcC I was only referring to the way in which God has come within our range in a tangible way in Christ as Man. The Spirit is suggested in the figure of the living water as something that can be felt and known as a real experience in our souls.

JSE Does 1 John 1: 1 help, “that which we contemplated, and our hands handled, concerning the word of life”?

SMcC Just so; that enters into it. We are to see the greatness of Christ’s Manhood. As Mr. Taylor has said, the eternal subsisting state between God and man exists in the revelation of God in a Man.

Rem Are we specially tested when divine Persons require to be served, as here, the Lord asking, “Give me to drink”?

SMcC Yes. His word is very interesting, “If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that says to thee, Give me to drink, thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water”. He reminds us here of His own seeking. Later He speaks of the Father seeking, but here He is seeking.

TM Is the word ‘sent’, used of John, important as set against what is accredited at Jerusalem?

SMcC Yes. It stands related to what is apart from man. We read in regard to John the Baptist, “There was a man sent from God, his name John”.

JSE May we come back to this matter of what is tangible? What our brother has raised is in the mind of a good many. Does the word of John Baptist, “I beheld the Spirit descending as a dove from heaven, and it abode upon him” (John 1: 32), involve what you have said about tangibility?

SMcC It shows how the Spirit was taken account of by John the Baptist, and was of course special to him. The Lord Jesus, in verse 18, is viewed as the only-begotten Son in the bosom of the Father, and in verse 32 the Spirit is viewed, descending as a dove upon Jesus, upon the Son of God. All that is to remind us of the way that God is coming within our range so as to be apprehended through these ways of approach.

AJG Would not tangibility in regard of the Spirit lie in what He affords in ourselves in witness and in the springing up?

SMcC That is what one is thinking of. This expression, “springing up” is what is within us - tangibility is there. It is a known, real, and felt presence and power. It is not just a matter of light or what is academic, but a real felt and known power in us to help us in regard to the service of God.

EJB The inward enjoyment of that turns our hearts towards the God who has come within our range in that way in the power of the Spirit.

AEM In speaking of tangibility, have we not to bear in mind that the incarnation of Christ is the central feature of the revelation?

SMcC That is true. Everything hinges on the incarnation, and the Spirit’s movements, as sent from heaven, have to be taken account of in its light. The Lord is not said to be sent from heaven, but the Spirit is sent from heaven, and that has to be understood in the light of the incarnation.

MAW Is the reality of the incarnation seen in verse 6 where He is said to be, “wearied with the way he had come”, and yet it says, “he sat just as he was”?

SMcC Just so. We are reminded of the reality of His humanity, the reality of it. Yet this great Person who is before us in John’s gospel, is the One who is referred to in chapter 1 - “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”. He is seen as having become flesh, and here in the reality of His humanity. How it should affect our hearts! We must always remember, however, that in the light of John’s ministry and of the scriptures, He retains His absoluteness.

WWS Does Luke 24 in any way bear on what you say, “being confounded and being frightened, supposed they beheld a spirit” (verse 37)? Is tangibility stressed there and the truth of the incarnation brought in?

SMcC That shows how substantial are the things that have come within our range in divine movements. We are not dealing with things in the air, but they are seen in a substantial way, supremely in Christ. “In him was life, and the life was the light of men.”

GRC In his first epistle John says, “That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, that which we contemplated, and our hands handled”. That would relate to tangibility and is based on the incarnation.

SMcC Just so. It is alluded to in the life that has come into testimony in Jesus, as He is viewed in Manhood in His relations with the Father. “The eternal life which was with the Father.” It is the uniqueness of what was seen in Jesus in Sonship as a Man here.

AH John the Baptist speaks of a Man who is preferred before him, and goes on later to speak of, “He must increase”. Would you think the woman, in her spiritual history, has come to the supremacy of Christ?

SMcC Yes, “Come see a man”. We are reminded of what has come within our range. John presents to us, God coming within our range in Christ as Man, and yet while Christ comes into Manhood, it is essential to see that, according to the scriptures, He retains His absoluteness.

FM I was wondering, in connection with Mr. M.’s remark as to the incarnation, if verses 14 - 18 would give us the truth of what we are seeking to enquire into? “The Word became flesh”, and verse 18 “No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him”, would cover the truth as to the incarnation.

AEM When we speak of tangibility we must have the incarnation of Christ before us, because everything that can be made known of God is seen in Him.

SMcC It is important that we should see that God is known in a Man, and will be known eternally in a Man. The position will not be in any way changed in eternity. The subsisting state and condition and relations between God and men will all hinge on His revelation in the Man to whom we are alluding.

LES Would Colossians 2: 9 fit in with this? “For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

SMcC Just so, reminding us of the greatness of what is there in Christ. The greatness of what was here as presented in chapter 1, is not necessarily for our apprehension, but it was there; the fulness was pleased to dwell in Him. Chapter 2 of Colossians in the added word, ‘bodily’ particularly alludes to what has come within our range so that, in so far as we can, we might apprehend it.

AA Does the apostle express it in 1 Timothy 3: 16, “God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in the Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among the nations, has been believed on in the world, has been received up in glory”?

SMcC Just so. We are to be impressed especially from John’s standpoint with that which would help us in the service of God and how God has come within our range. “The only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” It is not just to affect our minds, but to affect us feelingly. Our affections are to be stimulated in the manner in which God has come into these relations in a tangible way in Christ who is the only-begotten and the object of divine affection. God has come near to us in these tangible relations that we might know Him thus.

FM In John 3: 35, it says, “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand. He that believes on the Son has life eternal, and he that is not subject to the Son shall not see life”. Believing and subjection seem to be the link between what you have referred to in chapter 1 and what follows.

SMcC Yes. The footnote (1) as to ‘subject’ is important especially stressing what one has in mind. It says, ‘it is the obedience of submission to His person, not practical obedience to His commands, whatever proof this may be of the other, but it is not exactly the same thing as believing on Him as an Object revealed in grace’. It is the Person. If we are to take up the worship of God, we should be affected by these two great features - the greatness of the Person of Christ in Manhood (God apprehended in relation to that) and the greatness of the Spirit in the economy, typified in the living water which becomes a fountain of water springing up into eternal life.

APCL In verse 14 it says, “shall become in him”. Would that suggest a certain amount of responsibility on our part to make way for the Spirit?

SMcC Just so. Think of the mystery surrounding and entering into this! What can we say about it! He says, “the water which I shall give him shall become in him a fountain of water”. Something transpires, tangibly known and felt in our souls, “shall become in him a fountain of water springing up into eternal life”. When we think of what the Spirit of God has in mind in the type, it surely must affect our souls in this inward matter.

APCL I was thinking they were self reacting, for submission to His Person must be the result of making full way for the operations of the Spirit.

SMcC Yes, we can see how they are interrelated.

GMS Does the Lord bring the two points together in verse 10 at the beginning of this conversation, as He also would with us - “If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is”?

SMcC We are constantly cast back upon the greatness of this Person. John the Baptist says, “He who comes from above is above all. He who has his origin in the earth is of the earth, and speaks as of the earth. He who comes out of heaven is above all” (John 3: 31). This is unique and is not in the synoptic gospels. John the Baptist - who belongs to another dispensation - is a man who is filled with the greatness of this Person who has come into such a lowly subordinate position in the economy, yet never ceases to be what He always was.

WSS Is the woman brought before us as indicating one (possibly the assembly) who enters into those great thoughts?

SMcC That is what is in mind. The assembly enters into our thoughts in this reference to the woman. We have a sinful history, but this chapter contemplates, in figure, redemption as taking full account of and dealing with sinful history in the members of the assembly. We are thus set free for the enjoyment of the heavenly order of things indicated in eternal life and the presentation of the knowledge of God.

WSS When the Lord converses in verse 21, He says, “woman”, not now “the woman”. Is it not suggestive of the end of His service being reached?

SMcC Quite. The Spirit would help us to understand how, underlying this, there is the great thought of redemption which frees us from sinful history, enabling us to enter upon this great order of life that links with the service of God.

WMcK Would you say why water is mentioned before the blood in chapter 6?

SMcC We are concerned here with the great necessity for inward deliverance, and known power in regard to a sinful state which would hold us. The woman is a type of members of the assembly who have had a history of sin, but redemption frees them from that sinful history and the Spirit is received, and in known power, frees us for the heavenly order of things that are in mind.

GRC Is there any thought in the use of the word “draw”? The Lord does not do all the speaking, but draws out from persons what they have to say. Does that bear on our part in the service?

SMcC Yes it does. It is interesting to see the skill of the Lord in that way and in the way he approaches the woman; how He answers her questions and meets her remarks. It says in verse 16, “Jesus says to her, Go, call thy husband and come here”. It is interesting to see what the Lord does here. He does not say, I will go with you, He says, “Go, call thy husband and come here”. She is to come back to this particular point and the Lord has confidence that she will come back.

AEM Would the scripture, “Blessed the pure in heart, for they shall see God” be illustrated in John 4?

SMcC Very good; the resolving of the moral state of this woman leads to that which comes out as to God, not only God in the specified relation into which He has come in the economy, but the great thought of God as involving all three Persons. “God is a spirit, and they who worship him must worship him in spirit and truth.” What effect these words must have had on that woman’s mind!

AEM Does John’s gospel show us how we are to see God?

SMcC Yes. We are to see God in Christ.

LES Holiness enters largely into this matter. “Pursue peace with all, and holiness, without which no one shall see the Lord” (Hebrews 12: 14).

SMcC Just so, the need of holiness is important. That is how the worship of God is brought before us here, the Lord as it were saying, We must have these questions resolved before the worship of God can be entered upon. The woman of course brings it up.

LES Does not the matter of holiness affect our spirits to a very large extent?

SMcC It does and you feel that we shall never be in power in the service of God in the assembly unless holiness is present.

APCL Are there not two words for worship in use in the New Testament, one involving personal homage and the other service?

SMcC You are alluding to the difference between what we have in Philippians 3 as to the general side of the service of God. Say something more about what is in your mind as to John 4.

APCL I wondered whether this act of personal homage and prostration needs to be understood by us when we are in the presence of God?

SMcC I am sure it does, because God has in mind that, as coming within our range as a Man, we should be marked by the spirit of prostration or worship. “God is a spirit, and they who worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

- .G. Would you say a word as to the bearing of what has been said as to tangibility, and God being a Spirit?

SMcC I am glad you referred to that. There is another side which must be borne in mind in connection with the service of God in the assembly. Not only is there tangibility but spirituality. These are two great features in relation to the knowledge of God as having come out, and our drawing near to Him. God coming out involves the thought of what is tangible in the incarnation and Christ as Man. Our drawing near to God involves the presence of the Spirit and spirituality on our part as making room for Him. “They who worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” Tangibility does not militate against spirituality, nor does spirituality militate against tangibility. The two go together in regard to the worship of God.

JSE Does that explain the usage of the words, “ye”, “we” and then “they”? I was thinking of the way the Lord says, “Ye worship ye know not what; we worship what we know, for salvation is of the Jews”. When He comes to the greatest of all matters, He says, “they who worship him must worship him in spirit and truth”.

SMcC That is suggestive, say something more.

JSE I wondered if the Lord in ruling out both the mountain and Jerusalem, emphasises what you said earlier. He was insistent on this relationship with the Father in order to worship Him and the Lord says, “Ye worship ye know not what; we worship what we know”. The contrast is between “ye” and “we”, and when you come to the matter of God, it is neither “we” nor “ye” but “they”. Is there not a sense in which the Lord would not use “we” when He speaks of God, because He himself knows full well that He is included in that title, so He says “they”?

SMcC That is very interesting. The Lord says, “they who worship him”; He does not say “we who worship him”, for we must at every turn have great regard for the Person of Christ. We would not refer to Him as a worshipper, because of who He is. What you say helps in that regard. These features of tangibility and spirituality are important in regard to the worship of God. If I might refer to the second verse of Hymn 8, which has been giving difficulty to some, ‘Blest Son we adore Thee’, it always has to be kept in mind that the worship of God involves two things - tangibility and spirituality. God has come within our range in a Man and is known in a Man, and the Person who is before us as Man, is in Himself, God. Spirituality along with that thought, reminds us that God is a spirit and “they who worship him must worship him inspirit and in truth”. From the standpoint of John 4 we cannot be materialistic in our way of thinking or in our outlook.

VTS Do those two things affect us in worship in relation to the love of God? In John’s first epistle it says, “Herein as to us has been manifested the love of God, that God has sent his only-begotten Son into the world” - tangibility - “that we might live through him” - spirituality (1 John 4: 9).

SMcC Very good.

GRC Mr. Taylor has said in connection with, “for in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”, that there is no hard and fast line between what is revealed and what is inscrutable.

SMcC Just so. Spirituality enters into the worship of God. In John 4 we have been stressing the idea of tangibility in relation to the incarnation and Christ in Manhood. That must be carried through and it will be carried through right into eternity. We shall never have to do with God apart from what is tangible in Christ as Man. Spirituality does not mean that we can enter into the depths of Deity as Christ as Man can enter into it, but that we worship according to what we know of God as having come within our range in revelation.

PL God is revealed in a Person who is infinite. Does that promote in us a sense of worship that gives tone and body to the service of God?

SMcC Just so. We are always to be reminded of it and have it before us.

GRC Would that bring about prostration? At the end of the service inaugurated by Solomon when the Ark was brought in, it says, “And all the children of Israel ... bowed themselves with their faces to the ground on the pavement, and worshipped and thanked Jehovah” (2 Chronicles 7: 3).

SMcC Very good, showing what was reached in regard to the service of God in those circumstances.

In John 20 it is interesting to note the way in which Mary comes before us, and how Peter and John come into the matter. Mary is before them, but “She runs therefore and comes to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, to whom Jesus was attached, and says to them, They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we know not where they have laid him” (verse 2). She brings them into it, “We know not where they have laid him”. She is impressing on their minds what they do not know about what has transpired. Then Simon Peter and John move and what is said in verse 6 is remarkable, “Simon Peter therefore comes, following him, and entered into the tomb, and sees the linen cloths lying, and the handkerchief which was upon his head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded up in a distinct place by itself”. We are again reminded of the uniqueness of Christ, and we have to keep it in mind. In verse 12 it says, “As therefore she wept, she stooped down into the tomb, and beholds two angels sitting in white garments, one at the head and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain”. Why does it say this? It could have said, One at one end and the other at the other, but it says, “one at the head and one at the feet where the body of Jesus had lain”. The head and the feet are mentioned. Then we have the Lord’s approach to Mary which brings before us the wondrous and great light conveyed in the message.

HMcL Would you say a word as to verse 17, as to the difference now made between “my God and your God”? I am not clear on the matter and many others are not. Perhaps we could have help. I understand the reference to “my God” has in mind the Lord speaking in Manhood, but in the reference to “your God”, the three Persons are included.

SMcC In the first place it is important to see that the Lord says, “go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father, and your Father”. We must not miss this out - God known in this relation as Father. God has come into this specified relation in order that we might know Him in relation to His love. Then He says, “and to my God and your God”. The Lord Jesus could speak of God first as “my Father” in a specified relation. Let that sink into our minds, because it helps in the understanding of the verse; He first refers to the appellation of God which draws attention to the specified relation into which He has entered. Then He says, “to my God”. Think of the greatness of the Being who is before us to whom Christ alludes as “my God”! Involving the Name that covers the whole thought of the Deity - “my God”.

Then He says, “and your God”. He is our God in this light. That is the God he refers to in John 1: 18 who has come out, has been declared, and who is fully revealed in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That is our God. The Person of the Father is before us in John 20, but the Lord moves our thoughts, widening them out to the great appellation of God which covers the whole thought of the Deity and involves the three Persons.

AJG Do you think that is referred to in John 13: 3 where it says, “Jesus knowing that the Father had given him all things into his hands, and that he came out from God and was going to God”? Is that an allusion to this final part of the message, “to my God, and your God”?

SMcC Just so. I think that helps and we need to be helped in regard to this, because so many difficulties are made in regard to this passage. Our earlier reference to tangibility and spirituality would help us in regard to this. While the Lord, in speaking as Man, says “my God”, we must always remember that spirituality would take account of the inscrutability of His Person, for in the Mediator God is presented to us.

HMcL Would it be going too far to ask which of the Persons in the Godhead was God to Christ in Manhood?

SMcC That is putting the question in a confused kind of way. God was God to Christ in Manhood and if we think of the Father, and Christ speaking to Him as God, we have to bear in mind that it is God Himself. There is no difference between God in the pre-incarnate conditions of Deity and in Christ in Manhood, and what He will be eternally; it is the same God.

HMcL Do you suggest then that the reference to “my God” is to the Father?

SMcC It is God. Why should the Lord say “and my God”? He has already said, “I ascend to my Father, and your Father”; that is distinctly God in that specified relation as we know Him in that Person, but He goes on to say, “and my God”. God is presented to us in the Father, but it is not God as limited to the Father, because as we said at the beginning, the Lord always retains His absoluteness and we must keep that in mind. When the Lord says, “my God” it is that Being, in all His greatness and majesty whom He knew as no one else could know. I mean as to ourselves as creatures, because He is divine. He is a divine Person, and we are creatures with finite understandings.

AEM I am convinced that the confusion that is in the minds of some of the brethren is in some way connected with the incarnation. The Lord in becoming Man did not cease to be what He was as God.

SMcC That is important and is what is in mind in stressing that He retains His absoluteness. That is where the difficulty comes in; we would like to try and explain it, but we cannot explain it. Why should we try! If we try to explain it we may get beyond our depths. The fact is that Christ is Man, but He retains His absoluteness. While the Person of the Father is before us - “my Father and your Father”, and “my God” (Christ speaking as Man) - we must keep the abstract side in mind. While He is before us as Man, abstractly He has part in Deity.

HMcL My difficulty was “my God”; if we include the full thought of God there. In the Lord speaking as Man, it might be unsuitable to include the Lord Himself in that term. I am not against the thought of worshipping God as God.

SMcC I think it is important that we should be clear as to that. The difficulty lies in regard to what is concrete and what is abstract. The Lord Jesus retains His absoluteness. In the Mediator we have not only Man viewed in relation to God in an exalted way, but God viewed in relation to Man. The greatness of His Person enters into Mediatorship, and while, as to condition, He is Man, in Person He is God, and we must keep that before us.

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