“I AM IN MY FATHER, AND YE IN ME, AND I IN YOU”

John 14: 20; Philippians 2: 5–8; Colossians 3: 12–17; Ephesians 3: 14–17; Romans 8: 9, 10

RT We may seek help to enquire into the Lord’s word in John, “In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you”. You will notice that in the other scriptures we read in Colossians and elsewhere they speak of what is in us. I thought there was an order in the way the Lord speaks and we may follow that order. The verse stands out in its attractiveness as illuminating the dispensation that we are in, “In that day ye shall know”. No family previously would have known anything about this. It is the light of our day that He is in the Father. It has settled the question of everything that came in in the fall—that a Man who was here is now with the Father. It opens up the counsels and purpose of God; it takes us into another world altogether. There are some beautiful references in scripture to the Lord ascending; this gospel speaks of it. It is not just that He was raised but that He ascended.

He has gone into those courts above as a Man and the consequence of that is that you and I have a place there in Him. We are still here in circumstances of testing and weakness and sorrow and grief, but the truth is that when He went in our place there was secured. The consequence of that is “I in you”; that is the effect of it, dear brethren. This verse stands by itself in its grandeur and glory, and it finishes with that, “I in you”. It brings us into an area where things are settled and where divine love can be known and enjoyed. We may just think of that for a minute because Christ will never be formed in us if we do not understand our place in Him. The glory of that should lay hold of us as a real experience, “ye in me, and I in you”. May we be helped to follow these words of the Lord and get practical help as to how He is expressed in us. So He begins with “In that day ye shall know”. May we be helped to know and enjoy it better. The Lord is leaving His own here, and it is very affecting the length to which He goes to comfort their hearts, “I will not leave you orphans”. They must have thought there was going to be a great void, the One who they depended on for everything was leaving them, but here He is bringing these words to them to show that there will be no loss; indeed there will be great gain that He is now with the Father.

MGW Would it be a matter of deep personal joy to the Lord that He would be in this position, not with my Father but “in my Father”? He had never been there before as Man.

RT The Father’s heart has been opened up through His going in and being in the Father. Think of a Man being there in the worthiness of His Person!

JS The effect of His going to the Father was that the Spirit was sent, another Comforter. That would be the means for our knowing these things, would it?

RT It would, that is how we come into the gain of it. I think the charm of the verse should lay hold of our spirits; if He is in the Father so are we, by His having effectuated redemption and settled all the questions that have come in since the fall; He has opened that position of affection up to us that we may have a resting place there, do you think?

JS Just so. “Ye in me” would show the place that we have in His affections, do you think?

RT We are slow to grasp it, I say that for myself, it is the experience of most of us; we are slow to grasp what has been opened up to us in this dispensation, that a Man has gone into those courts above where man had never been before. Man was barred from it, from the garden of Eden, but here is a Man who has settled that question to the eternal praise of God, and He has gone into this place of favour, and from that home of love there is a great flow of divine grace and resources but the effect should be that He is formed in us.

JS Would that have in mind the substantial effect brought about in us down here?

RT Yes, through divine grace operating in our hearts. We have had no hand in this, we could not even have envisaged it. Think of the wealth of divine love in expression towards us that we may be maintained in this dispensation where we are under much pressure, that we may be maintained in the grace and the favour that has come to us in the day in which we are.

JMM In the previous chapter His activities were regulated by the fact that He knew that all things had been given into His hand, and that He came out from God and was going back to God, and then there was practical activity on His part as a result of that. I just wondered, if later on He indicates that as He had done they also should do, that for us it would involve the Spirit, I suppose?

RT Yes, indeed it would. That very fact should lay hold of us that a Man has gone in to be “in the Father”. He had been everything to them in the days of His flesh, as He moved among them serving them, and here He is reassuring them that there is another world opened up to serve them that they may be kept in that same grace in the difficulties of the path.

JS While He was here in conditions of flesh and blood He had His own unique place with the Father, but now having gone to the Father in this way He has opened up this place for others, including ourselves.

RT It is very beautiful. “Let not your heart be troubled”. There is much that comes in that troubles us and keeps us from enjoying this place of favour. He is in the Father’s presence and that heart of love and divine grace is all flowing out to us that there may be something of Christ formed in us now.

GBG Is it on our side a matter of faith?

RT Yes it is, but the first thing is light, faith reacts to light and I am concerned that the light presented should lay hold of us, so that we believe it; faith operates so that something is formed practically in us as a result.

GBG The Lord Jesus said in verse 10, “Believest thou not that I am in the Father?” Believing comes into it, does it not?

RT Indeed it does, that is how it is made good in our souls, but “In that day ye shall know”. I fear that we do not value the glory of the present day; it has never been before and I doubt if any other family will know it like this either. It is the light of our day that a Man has gone in and the resources of the Father’s grace now shine upon us, that we may be exercised, that we may be showing that Christ is in us.

MGW Is this the route do you think to being formed in love? I see more and more among the brethren the desire not to be just increased in the way of information and light, but that there might be formation in real likeness to Jesus. This would be the development of hearts that really love the Lord and love the Father.

RT This formation is dependent on love and faith, but I think here it is to impress us that everything is done in the movements of divine love and grace, and it is all shining on us in this dispensation in which we are; in all our sorrows and exercises we need faith to lay hold of it.

CKR This obviously depended on ascension, did it not? How much was involved when the Lord said “Touch me not ... I ascend to my Father and your Father”, John 20: 17. That is like the opening up of the enjoyment of the day that is referred to in this scripture.

RT Yes, they saw that too in the beginning of Acts, did they not? They saw Him go up and the Lord was anxious that they should see it. He speaks anticipatively, “If then ye see the Son of man ascending”, John 6: 62. It was not just that He was raised but He ascended. He goes up in His own right into the presence of the Father, and the consequence of that is that another world is opened up, shining towards us in these circumstances we are in.

TDB Would you say more about the word “in”?

RT Well, it could not be closer. It does not say, ‘In that day ye shall know the Father’. It says, “in that day ye shall know that I am in my Father”. All that the Father is in the way of resource is opened up to us through the Man who has gone in. The word you have called attention to is very intimate, “I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you”. When it comes to us there is to be the formation of His features in us, thus we are brought into it livingly.

JAG Paul speaks of himself as a “man in Christ”, 2 Corinthians 12: 2. Paul says in Ephesians 1, “Blessed be the God and Father” (Ephesians 1: 3). Do you think that has to be arrived at?

RT We must enjoy our place in Christ before Christ can be formed in us, otherwise it would be imperfect. In Adam all died, that is the condition that we are in in flesh and blood, but God in His favour placed us in Christ. Now as we contemplate that it is the opening of a door for Christ to be formed in us. That is the great bent of Paul’s exercise in these epistles, “Christ in you the hope of glory”, Colossians 1: 27.

JS That commenced when the Lord ascended into the Father’s presence, but it continues right to the present moment and we are brought into it. I think it is important for us to realise that the epistles are a current matter at the present time.

RT Yes, this dispensation has its own character and this is the stamp, you may say, in this dispensation that “I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you”. The breakdown does not affect that. What has come in in history and hades’ gates against the testimony does not affect it; it is shining in its lustre to us in the circumstances that we are in.

JS Is the importance for us then to be kept in the enjoyment of this knowledge in our souls as a current matter day by day?

RT Yes, we will see that in Philippians and Colossians that there is grace, and administrations of love towards us, but the great point I feel is to get established in the fact of it and the glory of it that we may believe it in circumstances when we are tested, to know our place in Christ, “ye in me”. Now the sorrows in the way do not disturb that, and it is fine to be able, and the Spirit would help us, to leave them for a moment and enjoy that place of favour in Christ.

GAB The Lord was here in an alien environment, but in going to the Father He has really returned into His own environment where He belongs.

RT When He was here there was distance in that sense positionally at least, but now the Son is with the Father, what joy for the Father, what joy for Christ, and not only the Father received Him but received you and me, “ye in me”.

GAB It is the atmosphere that exists there that is to be formed in us, is that right?

RT Yes, I think it is to form a character in us that is suited to that place on His breast and on His shoulders, “I in you”. We see in Philippians, “let this mind be in you”. In Colossians it says, “Let the word of the Christ dwell in you richly”, forming character in us that flows from One who loves us. As He is attractive to us in His beauty so there is a desire to make room for this formation in us.

NJH The persons that He is addressing as the “ye” are important to divine Persons, is that right? I was thinking that it was imperative that Judas was excluded from the first because divine Persons were actually providing conditions in the believer for formation.

RT Yes, and it was purposed before time began; He chose us in Him before the world’s foundation (Ephesians 1: 4). And here we see the opening up of divine purpose that there is a Man gone in to that holy abode and the saints have gone in too; it should come home to us individually. Those stones on Aaron’s breast had the names of every one. I often think of Moses as He bore the cares of all those people, saying, “Lord, thou hast been our dwelling-place in all generations”, Psalm 90: 1. “Ye in me”.

EJM In Ephesians 4 it says that He has ascended up on high that He might fill all things. He has given some prophets, teachers, and so on. Do you think that shows how much the saints of the assembly are in His affections?

RT Yes, indeed, and that has in view that we might arrive at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ. He has given these gifts as ascended. These are ideals that are to exercise our hearts that it should be normal Christian experience that we are in Him.

DCB So Ephesians 1 tells us He has blessed us

according as He has chosen us in Him. The blessing is completely in accord with that position that we have in Him.

RT Yes indeed. Well, divine choice is a wonderful thing. When Michal ridiculed David he said it was the God who chose me instead of your father (2 Samuel 6: 21). Think of God choosing us for this position to be before Him in Christ, an undisturbed position, that we may know the joy of in practical circumstances.

JAG Is it your thought that the enjoyment of union must involve the impartation of character?

RT It must. I thought Philippians would help us as to something of formation of character, do you think?

JAG I think so because “let this mind be in you” is the controlling factor in your life.

RT Yes, there is an interesting word that comes into these passages that we have read in Colossians and Philippians, it says, “let”. It is not something you manufacture but it says “let this mind be in you”. “Let the peace of Christ preside in your hearts ... Let the word of the Christ dwell in you richly”; it has been established through the Son going to the Father and the dispensation formed by the Spirit coming here. So it says, “let this mind be in you”; I think it is an attitude that flows from enjoying our place in Christ.

GBG In Psalm 90 that you quoted from, at the end of the psalm it says, “And let the beauty of Jehovah our God be upon us” (Psalm 90: 17), it is the same thought.

RT Yes, very beautiful. That is a very fine portion of scripture; it shows that the thing is there and the appreciation of our place in Christ would help us to make room for it amid the sorrows that we pass through and what we are in our condition. Yet there is something else being established and the Spirit would encourage us to let it happen. May our minds be disposed to allow the glory and worth of this to be formed in us.

JAB We are so used to the side of moral exercise excluding things, but do you feel it would be right to say that at the very core of our experience as Christians there should be that which is almost effortless, let it happen?

RT It is not done on sufferance but it is a desire to open the doors of our hearts that the character of this Man may be formed in us.

JAB If we are in the presence of God rightly, and enjoying by the Spirit the flow of communion which must be at the core of our experience as believers, then this will happen because God wills it to happen.

RT Yes, it reminds us of David, in one of the most severe exercises of his history, it says he went in and sat before Jehovah. What happened was that God spoke to him; then he says, “thou hast spoken of thy servant’s house for a great while to come, and hast regarded me according to the rank of a man of high degree”, 1 Chronicles 17: 17. Sorrows come into our lives and we revert to other things, we get discouraged, but when David was disappointed he went in and sat before God and he heard things that he could never have imagined; he said, “thou hast spoken of thy servant’s house for a great while to come”, it gave him a sense of his place in glory.

CKR As He is doing that then Paul’s own heart and soul and mind is fixed on Christ as he writes the subsequent clauses. It is so full, He emptied Himself and He humbled Himself, the full extent of the descent of Jesus.

RT Think of his prison epistles! How real it was for him to be in chains, but the limitations did not hinder his enjoyment of his place in Christ.

CKR The footnote to “be in you” reads. Or ‘be found amongst you’. Has he a real burden that this would be in evidence in Philippi and wherever this epistle was read?

RT It is so attractive but on the other hand we can see that it involves exercise. There were two sisters here who were not getting on too well and friction comes in. There are things that cause distress and sorrow. Well, Paul says, “let this mind be in you” as if this mind in us would settle the friction and what is irritable that needs to be adjusted.

MGW We would be glad of help on that, the mind is such an awkward kind of faculty and tends to work away with all such things that do not really matter, but give us a word of comfort about how we can let this mind be in us. I take it I have to get control of my own mind first of all. What would you say?

RT Well, think of when Christ was here; He did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on equality with God but emptied Himself. The Authorised Version says he “made himself of no reputation”. What a reputation He could have made; there was no one who healed the way He healed. When they would have made Him king He passed through their midst. A lot of our difficulties are in trying to preserve our reputation, but He took a bondman’s form. There is not much aspiration or pride allowed if these things are finding a place in our hearts. As has been said, Let it be in you, not just something that has to be resorted to, but it is something formed in character, it is the normal life of the saints.

JS Do you think God is ready to set out His ideal in Christ, His model, and do you think it is a matter of allowing God to have His way with ourselves to bring about this character?

RT It says, “taking his place in the likeness of men”; He did not need to do that. Remember in the Old Testament it says, “In all their affliction he was afflicted” (Isaiah 63: 9); think of Him going through those journeyings with them. He did not go out with the place that He came into. We sometimes go out of our orbit and that causes friction. We sometimes exercise ourselves in things that are beyond our reach, but He took a bondman’s form. What lowliness of mind! It says, “let this mind be in you”; I think it flows from the enjoyment of our place in Christ. Who would try to vindicate or justify themselves in the enjoyment of a place in Christ? I say nobody.

JS Taking His place in a bondman’s form, would that mean His preparedness to serve others, to consider for others?

RT Yes, sufferingly. A bondman does what he is told, he has no aspirations to greater things or to go out of his place. The Lord did not move from the position He took in taking a bondman’s form. Did He have to go that low? What a model for us to be in that place of serviceability, to be under orders that we may make room for the character of Christ to be expressed in us.

TDB So that it becomes constitutional; I was thinking about Joseph. It did not matter where you put Joseph because he prospered.

RT Very good, it was constitutional with him. He was there in the dungeon and God took him from that to rule over Egypt. That is what happens with the Lord here, He is highly exalted; but think of divine pleasure that there was a Man here tempted of the devil, tested by the circumstances that we are tested by, and He not only took a bondman’s form, but He humbled Himself and was obedient. That is the word that is written over the passage, the obedience of the Christ.

JS He humbled Himself, would you say something about that?

RT Being found in figure as a Man He humbled Himself. He washed their feet, He was ready to do whatever was needed to be done. It was not below Him to wash their feet. The disciples at times felt that things were below them but it was not below Him to embrace the children; the disciples felt they would be a nuisance, but He was perfect in every circumstance.

JS So He was prepared to take the lowest place always; He humbled Himself. You have spoken of what we allow to happen, but this is something that He did Himself.

RT Yes, in devotion to His God. The Lord sets out here the true position of man before God; He knows the conditions and He serves in them, like the bondman in Exodus 21 in love for his master. Paul does not bring these things to be a picture to us, he says, “let this mind be in you”. He is concerned about the difficulties that were among the saints, he is concerned about the lack of unity, he is concerned about certain distressing circumstances and he is saying, Well here is how they can be resolved, “let this mind be in you”, in a formative way; not a mind matter only but “let this mind be in you” to produce these down-stooping movements in love that makes way for unity.

DTP So the Father says, “This is my beloved Son”. We find that grace in the Son takes this lowly down-stooping path.

RT How attractive He was. There has never been a Man like this so attractive to heaven; it is no wonder that the heavens were opened upon Him. That would induce the desire for this mind to be in us. Paul is saying it is not just something that is historical but “let this mind be in you”. It is like those words in John “I in you”. This is how it takes shape.

NJH His place would be unique. We could not have known this mind without the incarnation, coming in as He did; how much we are brought into by that wonderful movement downwards, is that right?

RT Yes, that made it all available to us. Christ having gone to the Father has made way for the Spirit to come that this mind may be in us. It is not just to be in us intellectually, but “let this mind be in you” governs our walk and makes way for unity. It says later, “even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence, work out your own salvation”, Philippians 2: 12. This is how you work out your own salvation as you make room for this way of thinking and this attitude. Instead of trying to justify self and promote self, you are making room for the Father and for divine help to come in.

GAB Letting this thing happen really means that we do not resist divine operations in us. I was thinking of the man in John 9 and the woman in John 4 particularly, both of these persons started from nothing really, but what a rapid progress they made because they did not resist.

RT Yes, they would be attracted as well, would they not? The woman especially was attracted. I think the attraction of it would help us not to resist but, more than that, to want it. That kind of Man becomes so precious to us that we would like it to be extant in our local companies, because there is a collective side to the passages we have read. Paul is seeking in Philippi and Colosse practical evidence in the locality of “I in you”.

TDB Somebody has already referred to the footnote ‘found amongst you’. Would that normally be the working of things by the Spirit?

RT In Colossians he speaks about these two things, “let the peace of Christ preside in your hearts”, and the “word of the Christ dwell in you richly”. It is not just that there is enough to meet the exercises, but there is something presiding there that flows from the enjoyment of a place in Christ. It starts in the section we read, “Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of compassion”. He is reminding them again that they are in Christ. It comes back to what I said earlier, the enjoyment of being in Christ opens the door for Christ to be formed in us. It says, “elect of God”, not doing things in a legal way but in the enjoyment of our place of favour, and we want that to come into practical expression.

Unless we can enjoy forgiveness we will not forgive. But look at the level of it, “even as the Christ has forgiven you”, there is the level of forgiveness. We enjoy that as the elect of God, and He would have it that this is presiding in us; it means that it takes over, there is a formation of this character of Christ in us.

MGW Would you think these references to peace and to the word are more in the heart than in the mind?

RT When he says, “let the peace of Christ preside”, I think it means it is taking over our bodies. The heart is the seat of course, but what is in the heart must express itself in our bodies. “Let the word of the Christ dwell in you richly” is shown in our administration, admonishing one another in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. It is Christ coming out in the administration of divine grace and favour towards one another.

MGW Let the mind be in you and the peace. These words bind beautifully by the Spirit in the structure of Christians, so to speak.

RT You resolve that you want this but it is because you have been attracted to it by divine favour. It says of Naphtali, “satisfied with favour”, Deuteronomy 33: 23. If you are satisfied with favour you are not trying to promote self; satisfied with favour and full of the blessing is what Paul is at here. You are satisfied with favour and that comes out in your disposition towards the saints.

JAG There is a good bit of formation when you can add love, the bond of perfectness. I think it is very fine because you have an appetite now for the word of the Christ.

RT Yes, to these add love; that proceeds from forgiveness, “even as the Christ has forgiven you, so also do ye. And to all these add love, which is the bond of perfectness”. If it is there formed it flows normally. It is not something that you refer to in emergencies, but it is the formation of Christ in the soul so that these things flow out in the circumstances we are in.

JS It says, “forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any should have a complaint against any; even as the Christ has forgiven you, so also do ye”. Is it the same mind and spirit working in the believer as came out in Christ?

RT Yes. In Christ, there is a great source to draw on, “as the Christ has forgiven you”. There is the disposition of that mind, to facilitate peace, the peace of Christ is to preside in your heart. It is the soul enjoying peace that facilitates the expression of this kind of character among us, do you think?

JS So that this word “preside in your hearts” is a very fine one. It is really the thing that is to dominate in our hearts.

JCG It is very helpful. The whole person is secured, not just our souls and spirits, but our bodies. I was thinking of Paul, he says “Christ shall be magnified in my body”, Philippians 1: 20. I suppose that is a parallel to the word dwelling in us richly, is it?

RT Yes, I think that is very beautiful, and he says in that connection, that those in the prison had seen that his bonds were in Christ. He could have tried to reason among these prisoners. You know I should never have been here, I never did anything worthy of these bonds, but he did not say that. He said that it has been seen that my bonds are in Christ. I think that is the supply of divine grace filling the soul. How easily we get disturbed, I speak for myself, but I think this way of approach is to mark us, expressing something of Christ “in you”.

JS What comes into expression “everything, whatever ye may do in word or in deed, do all things in the name of the Lord Jesus”, would not be just a matter of formally attaching His name to it, but do you think that One Man would be expressed in the words and the deeds?

RT Wherever we go, can we take the Lord Jesus into it? Do we consider for His name and His testimony in all that we do? Persons who are like this have some power about them, “teaching and admonishing one another, in psalms, hymns, spiritual songs”, not being at one another in pointing out the defects, but there is a supply of divine grace coming in to affect the spirits of the brethren “singing with grace in your hearts to God”.

JAG You are certainly wealthy if you have psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, it is a fair variety I suppose. It all seems to me that we have come a long way from Colossians, we have passed the wilderness now and we are ready to go into the inheritance, and the word of the Christ is going to open the whole thing up to us.

RT I think we are in the inheritance really. We must enjoy it to come out like this, eating the grapes, tasting the sweetness of those springs.

JAG We are not in Ephesians but we are getting there.

RT It is all one piece, we should not separate things too much. You said Colossians is on the way and that is true. Mr. Taylor says you have to be an Ephesian to live in Corinth.

JAG That is where Corinth got its help from.

RT Very good. You have to enjoy “ye in me” to be rightly in your local company, otherwise you are troublesome; but a person who enjoys a place in Christ can be put anywhere.

JAG Irrespective of the crisis locally you are able to cope with it and bring about restoration.

RT It is very beautiful how much Ephesians comes into Corinth, “ye have been washed, but ye have been sanctified, but ye have been justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God”, 1 Corinthians 6: 11. They were the temple of God in Corinth. May it become clearer to us all that we have to enjoy our place in Christ, and the effect of that is that we want Christ to be formed in us so we can go anywhere. We used to be told that a good Roman could go anywhere; I remember a brother coming to us and he said, He has to go on, you cannot just live in Romans. It is the kingdom setting you up, but you have to enjoy the sense of divine favour so that you are comfortable and an asset in your local company.

JS Letting the word of the Christ dwell in you richly means it is to have a settled place there.

RT Yes, there is no disturbance. It means that you have resources, it dwells in you richly for what is needed, teaching and admonishing in psalms, hymns, spiritual songs. It is all coming in as drawing on this richness that is dwelling in us through our links with Christ.

CKR When you come to Ephesians 3 it is the Person, “that the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts”; that is a man now in prayer in liberty Godward. Is he in the enjoyment of these wondrous things so there is more than ministry then, it is the Person that has the full presiding place, through faith, in the hearts of the saints?

RT Yes, it is all proceeding from the Father, “I bow my knees to the Father ... in order that he may give you according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man”. We have the whole of the economy active, the Father, Christ and the Spirit, that the Christ may not only be formed in us but it says here, “dwell, through faith in your hearts”, and then it says, “being rooted and founded in love”. It is bringing us into the enjoyment of stability that we have in John 14: 20.

GAB In Jotham’s parable the olive-tree says, “Should leave my fatness ...?”, and the fig-tree says, “Should I leave my sweetness ...?”, and the vine says, “Should I leave my new wine, which cheers God and man ...?”. There is perfect satisfaction in type with their place in Christ (see Judges 9: 8–13).

RT Dwelling in love, were they not? It says that if you dwell in love, you dwell in God. Moses had a dwelling-place in the sorrows of the testimony, “Lord, thou hast been our dwelling-place”, Psalm 90: 1. It brings up what was called attention to earlier, that we not only have the light of it, but faith makes things operational; it means that it is real in our souls, “dwell, through faith, in your hearts, being rooted and founded in love”.

JAB The power of the indwelling Spirit is necessary for this. Is Christ dwelling in the believer distinguishable from the Spirit’s dwelling in the believer?

RT Well it is the fruit of the Spirit’s presence in the believer. It is not done in any other power than by the power of the Spirit. That is why he says, “to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man”. The Spirit has joined Himself to that mind that desires to be like Christ. Indeed as you go further back the Spirit created the desire. Adam did not have it. If there is any desire at all after Christ, God has placed it there by His own sovereign work, but then it has grown, and here it is “strengthened with power by his Spirit”. It encourages us not to fall back on other resources. The inner man is dominant now, the seat of operations is secured as Christ is dwelling in our hearts.

JMM These things become formative and then they become expressed practically. Every activity, whether it be among brethren or in testimony becomes characterised by the formation of Christ within us, do you think? That means that there is the expression of something very different from what we see generally around us.

RT What is formative always expresses itself as a negative or a positive. If you are in Adam, Adam expresses himself; if you are in flesh, flesh expresses itself, but if you are in Christ the Spirit joins His help and that expresses itself and that is the effect, I think, of “I in you”. There is something different, so if an unbeliever came into Corinth what did he see? He said, “God is indeed amongst you”, 1 Corinthians 14: 25. That was not just the outward order, I think it was the way they sat, the way they greeted each other, maybe kissed each other. Persons have been impressed by the way the brethren greeted one another. All that is formation so that there is something coming out, “forgiving one another ... as the Christ has forgiven you”. They are coming out formed and what is seen in expression is another man entirely.

JS Do you think it is really what lies at the basis of the “all-various wisdom of God” being expressed in the assembly?

RT Yes, it expresses itself locally. It is an expression that will be seen in that day when the vessel of grace comes down having the glory of God, bringing the wealth of divine grace into the world to come, but it is to be expressed locally; it has its residence in us individually. May we all contribute to the wealth of the local company.

JS The apostle uses the word “now” in connection with that. It is something that needs to be in evidence at the present time. What you said about the expression of what is local really must flow from the enjoyment of what is heavenly.

RT It must and the way to meet these difficulties among us is that there is a preparedness to make room for the Spirit of Christ to be formed in us. If we enjoy our place in Christ, brethren, I say it again, there would be a greater expression of Christ in our local companies and things would not be prolonged. It is a matter of shame and sorrow to us if things are prolonged, it shows there is a lack of making room for Christ being formed in us.

JTB I was just wondering if this is really the only way, the royal way, into the enjoyment of the purpose of God.

RT Yes. The purpose of God has opened up the royal highway, so that we are at home. Although in a foreign country, yet we are enjoying what belongs to home because it is our dwelling-place.

JTB We can speak about the breadth and length and depth and height but we are not overwhelmed by it.

RT Quite so, because there is an anchor, “to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge”, Ephesians 3: 19. That is us in Him and He in us, but we are not overwhelmed because there is a fixed anchor. Well Romans underlies it all that the Spirit is the power, “But ye are not in flesh but in Spirit, if indeed God’s spirit dwell in you; but if any one has not the Spirit of Christ he is not of him”. There is the test about formation; if the Spirit of Christ is not in evidence in our localities he says he is not of Him, a very strong word. But “if Christ be in you, the body is dead on account of sin, but the Spirit life on account of righteousness”. It throws us back on the power for it all, a divine Person who has come to be in us and with us, and the great purpose of His mission has been to form Christ in us. Well may it be facilitated as we think of these things, dear brethren, for Christ’s name’s sake.

Reading at Dundee
26 June 2004

KEY TO INITIALS

T. D. Beveridge

J. A. Gardiner

E. J. Mair

D. C. Brown

G. B. Grant

C. K. Robinson

G. A. Brown

J. C. Gray

J. Strachan

J. T. Brown (Gr)

N. J. Henry

R. Taylor

J. A. Brown

J. M. Macfarlane

M G. Wood