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THE SANCTIFIED VESSEL

B.M.D. I thought for our enquiry today we might get some fresh view and impression of the assembly which Christ loves, the sanctified vessel that we would seek humbly to walk in the light of until He comes. What the Lord had in the beginning of this dispensation, He will most assuredly have in quality at the end in those, according to this same epistle, “that look for him the second time without sin for salvation”, chap 9: 28. Perhaps we might quicken one another’s desire to be found amongst such by our conversations today. I thought it would be salutary firstly to look a little over the way we have come; perhaps a little review, soberly, of what Christianity is in the light of developing conditions in the world, and our own peculiar link with what we speak of rightly as the recovery. We want to be simple in what we speak about. This idea of sanctification runs right through the section we have read. Firstly, “his own blood” —Christ’s own blood. Then His body, “by which will we have been sanctified”. Working backwards, it finally reaches the idea of a sanctified company. Our bearings firstly are Godward, but then it widens I think in the section in Isaiah from which it is quoted and would help us to see that the testimony is involved. “Bind up the testimony”, as if the days of the prophetic speaking have come right down to us; there is urgent need to bind up the testimony, it is not to be held loosely or negligently. We are to “Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples”. I am anticipating, but, dear brethren, we must come into this. The great need is to see that we are in a day of small things, a poor and afflicted people, but the principles that govern the house of God and the assembly apply in the absolute sense; there is no weakening of the divine standard or the pattern to conform with the public decline and departure that is so sadly evident in the profession around us. I need not say more: but I just thought it might be salutary to go over a little the way we have come, to re-establish ourselves in the certainty of things fully believed among us. What do you think?

P.M. Is it to affect our hearts that we are brought back immediately to “his own blood”? Are our affections to be kept softened; seeking to maintain what is due to the Lord, yet our affections softened by the cost that it has been to Him?

B.M.D. I think that. It establishes the bond of affection. As you say, brought back to it, but better never, ever to leave it; it is a bond of affection known initially, when in our need our sins were met, and it is to be carried forward in the life of the believer. Who can ever afford to lose that holy appreciation, but rather may it deepen, of the precious blood of Jesus; separating in its effect, and also teaching us that we are no longer our own, we have been bought with a price—we belong to Another? Is that right, Mr Martin?

A.H.M. I am sure of that. I think it should increase with us daily, the price that we have been bought with.

B.M.D. Very affecting where we began, “Wherefore ... Jesus”, that Person whom we love, the name that endears Him personally to us, His blood was shed for each of us, and delivered us from the great idolatrous system.

B.W.W. Is it very blessed, as our hymn reminded us,

Love that has made us Thine

(No 235)

That personal ownership which the Lord Jesus has of His assembly, and the importance of that I am sure is very great, but with each of us, individually, that claim will never be relinquished.

B.M.D. I like the expression ‘personal ownership’, which would bring its own sweetness, your own secret of joy between yourself and Himself, and that belongs to every one of us. Do you not think it constitutes the preciousness of our bond and affinities with one another?

B.W.W. It does, because that is going to abide through eternity, and it is great enough, because of the One who has established it, to maintain in power His testimony.

B.M.D. I think what you say is very helpful and really deals with the whole question of separation from the world.

V.E.W. This name “Jesus” is enshrined in the affections of the assembly.

B.M.D. I am sure it is. How we love the name of Jesus! Would you care to say which is His greatest title? We love the name of Jesus, and would gain the interest of these dear young ones here today, and carry one another with us in this enquiry, to freshly value the vessel that Christ loves; He gave Himself for it, and He nourishes it and cherishes it as He will today.

E.C.M. Is the Lord’s supper week by week to stimulate our affections in response to that love? I was thinking of a reference in Luke, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you” (chap 22: 20); the expression there “my blood”, and then the pouring out; would that express to us the bond of love?

B.M.D. Yes. I thought we would reach that, particularly as to His body, but here it is His blood first, actually it is the order of 1 Corinthians 10 bearing on fellowship, where it is not the order of the Supper because the cup is put first; we have often enquired why that should be. Where we have read would support, I think, what you are opening up, firstly the blood, establishing through what has been poured out, in the volume of that blood, and the greatness of His love, a personal link with the One who gave His life. When we come to being sanctified through the offering of His body, I think it would immediately make us think of the loaf; it is a question now of being committed to the will of Another. Maybe we should spend a moment on this personal link.

W.H.S. Do you think we cannot over-stress the importance of going forth to Him, it is not just a position, but a Person is before the souls of the saints?

B.M.D. I would say that fully, it is not just a position. We should be very careful in talking about a position, you hardly like using the words ‘we’ and ‘us’; but of course, we are limited by language, but so long as we know what we mean; if we do it at all we are speaking for every Christian.

W.H.S. Peter could say, “Lord, if it be thou, command me to come to thee” (Matt 14: 28), in a very simple expression of need.

B.M.D. So individually we come to that, and it must be that I find the company of the One who shed His blood for me, because I am no longer my own, I belong to Him. So that I find you going outside the camp and I find I am alongside you, so we just go along together. That is just what the position is today as I understand it; it is unofficial, it is not ecclesiastical, it is moral, and it is affection for Christ.

F.N.S. Would it be as well if you indicated for all of us, particularly for the young, what sanctification really means?

B.M.D. Well, it involves holiness which is by the Spirit, and being set apart in holiness for Another, but perhaps that is a very poor definition.

F.N.S. No, I think it is very good. We are personally linked with Him because He has bought us, established His right and title to us that we should be specially and only for Him.

B.M.D. That is what I would say, and, therefore, sanctification involves the suited state to be in His presence, and as long as we are in these conditions it will be a constant concern and exercise to be maintained in thorough self-judgment, and be formed in the divine nature. Does that help at all?

F.N.S. I think it does, and it would stimulate the desire with every one of us to be more exclusively pleasing to Him in every way; not only separated from the world, but from the things of the world, and what characterises it.

B.M.D. It is His company we want; how could I stop short of the company of the One who shed His blood for me, because He loved me and gave Himself for me;—“to deliver us out of the present evil world”? You see it is the idolatrous system, going back to Exodus, in the type, but how much more today. I feel that idolatry is far nearer to us than sometimes we are prepared to admit.

P.M. It says that Christ died for all—“he died for all, that they who live should no longer live to themselves, but to him who died for them and has been raised” (2 Cor 5: 15); does that put Christ as a fresh and new Object for my affections that I might live to Him and He be everything in my life?

B.M.D. That is exactly what it is, and is the very essence of Christianity.

D.E.B. Would you say something please about the use of the word “people” here? What is in view in the “people”?

B.M.D. “That he might sanctify the people by his own blood”; well it comes into Christian language, Peter uses it, does he not? I suppose it points to the personnel, and the vessel of which we want to get some impress today; “sanctify the people by his own blood”, I think it would involve the personnel. What would you say?

D.E.B. That is what I was wondering, sanctification essentially is individual, is it?

B.M.D. Well, it would begin that way certainly, but then you reach something when we speak of what is collective, a sanctified company. I think what the Lord had in Bethany—it was not the assembly formally, for the Spirit had not yet come, but the personnel were there—it was a sanctified company. From there He was carried up into heaven, He was received up, and then He went up of His own right, did He not? “I ascend”, but He is coming again to that environment of affection, and it would appeal to every one of us who loves Him, Can I furnish that?

D.E.B. And too, there is a certain touch of sovereignty, is there, in the people, I mean they were evidently the people before they were sanctified?

B.M.D. Well, we would be very embracive as we speak of the people of God. We have perhaps been far too restricted in our outlook, and the idea of sovereignty of course would come into it with every one of us.

F.G.M. In 2 Timothy 2 it speaks of “sanctified”, and immediately followed by “serviceable to the Master”, v 21. Does that fit in with what you have in mind?

B.M.D. Yes, I think it is parallel, we could have read that chapter, it is separation reached on a parallel line, but what is the end? It is to Him, He is the point of attraction. Christianity is a system of attraction and gathering. We need the commandments of the Lord, of course we do, we are not setting those aside, but it is the principle of gathering and attraction, as separating from evil.

D.E.R. What is involved in “the camp”, please?

B.M.D. Well, it takes us back to Exodus, where idolatry showed itself in the molten calf. It is very humbling that so quickly the people say, What has become of Moses? How quickly decline came in and what immediately showed itself was idolatry. What would constitute the idolatrous camp now is the world around us—especially religiously.

D.E.R. It was all God’s people in the camp, therefore it has got a particularly religious connection, has it not?

B.M.D. Yes I fully agree with that. In one sense publicly according to 2 Timothy 2 we do not leave the great house, we are part of it, and we should, as has been said, be the humblest of the humble as we think of the public position, but that does not preclude going outside where there is a suffering position of reproach with full assembly privilege that can be enjoyed with those that call upon the lord out of a pure heart.

S.B.H. Peter said, “Lord, to whom shall we go?” (John 6: 68)—not where, but “whom”, then he said, “thou hast words of life eternal”.

B.M.D. Yes, that guards the idea of the position. Most of us have been brought up in fellowship and that is very protective, but in the exercises of these last years we have had to get back to see where our real bearings lie. I feel it is salutary to go over the whole question, just what is Christianity, and soberly just review the position.

R.E.T. Redemption is really our platform for taking us through, but then there is the power of attraction as you were speaking of it, we seek the coming One. How are our eyes? Are we looking upward? Are we moving forward in the power of the attraction of the glory of the coming One?

B.M.D. Surely, it is both our platform and it goes all the way, the glory of redemption, we never, ever, leave it behind, and I should say rather our appreciation of the glory of redemption should grow.

R.T. Most of the epistles take it up as His office, the offices that He fills so fully, but, here it is Himself, “sanctify … by his own blood”, and the idea of His having “suffered”, that transcends any thought of office or official position.

B.M.D. That is most affecting what you say, and the one who wrote this epistle keeps himself out of sight, unofficial; he engages these Hebrew Christians, who were tending to slip away, with the greatness of the Person of Christ. As you say, in this last chapter he really brings them back to it, it is the Person, they are to go forth to Him.

R.T. Would you say some more, it is not only “by his own blood”, but “suffered”, that is another word?

B.M.D. It is very affecting that He “suffered without the gate”. You think of the cross and what that meant, the awfulness of the cross; He suffered for you and for me, each one of us, suffered for our sins, He bore them in His body, every one of them, mounting up, you might say, one by one, He took them all on.

R.E.T. Would it help us to get a much truer sense of Gethsemane, how He suffered in His spirit, and then we would understand the cross better, would we not?

B.M.D. Well, those three were not able for it then, were they? “Thus ye have not been able to watch one hour with me?” (Matt 26: 40); does that not affect you? How the Lord selected Peter, James and John—“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation”. You see, I do not know how to put it, we have to fear decline; you look back over history, it is decline, recovery; decline, recovery; Why? We are no different from those three beloved men, in fact we would not measure up to them in any sense whatever because they were of the twelve, but the Lord said to them, Could ye not watch one hour? Does it not touch a chord in you? Are we watching? Today is as critical as ever it was. Where is the watching? Where is the love? Of course, He went where no one could follow in His atoning sufferings, but those other sufferings the Lamb’s wife will understand. That is the assembly, making herself ready.

G.W.E. You spoke earlier as to attachment and gathering, would you just open that up a bit more for us all?

B.M.D. Well, it is just to get away from the idea of demand and compliance, and rule books. We need the commandments of the Lord surely; did not the Lord Jesus say, If ye love Me you will keep my commandments: if ye love Me you will keep My word? Otherwise, without love, what is it worth? Maybe we would be better without it, that might be a bit strong; but love for the Person is the very kernel of Christianity.

E.C.M. Does your reference to 1 Corinthians 10 bear on the fellowship side of the Lord’s death? I was thinking how the apostle appeals to the saints at Corinth, “Wherefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry”, then he speaks about the cup first, as you suggest, the cup, communion, or fellowship, of the blood of the Christ. Is that to affect us, the blood of the Christ?

B.M.D. Very much so. I think there is a connection with 1 Corinthians 10, if we could just think of it quickly, because it is the fellowship in a way established vitally before he introduces the Supper as he received it from the Lord in glory, and here again it brings out the idolatrous camp, “The people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play”, v 7. So quickly decline came in. We could extend it after the days of the apostles. Then think of Paul all in Asia turning away from him, he saw it in his lifetime, and John saw it, and I suppose in our histories we have to humble ourselves.

E.C.M. I thought the very expression, “the blood of the Christ” then “the body of the Christ”, it is not the order of the Supper but rather the fellowship side: are we really true to the fellowship side of the Lord’s death? It would involve real reproach for us.

B.M.D. So that brings us now to chapter 10 of Hebrews where it says, “by which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all”. So that brings us really to the Supper, and every time we see that loaf we think of the absolute perfection, in every sense, of that body held by Him for God, but then, “My body for you”. In 1 Corinthians 10 we have first, as we said, His blood as meeting the whole question of our sins, which endears Him to us, then, in chapter 11, the loaf, “my body ... for you”, and then the cup, “my blood”; both are a remembrance, but the occupation and feeding on that holy body held by Him for God, doing the will of God, being laid down by Him in absolute and perfect obedience is something to profoundly affect us, and have its sanctifying power over our lives.

R.E.T. The blood is something to bring us into liberty with God, is it not?

B.M.D. Well, the shedding of His blood of course involved the giving up of His life, but in view of taking it again. He was alone in the perfection of His humanity in flesh and blood, He took part in it for us, but He would not go out alone, it meant He shed His blood, He gave that life, that He might have His own, His brethren, with Him in a condition of things upon which the shadow of death would never come. Now that is where the assembly belongs.

B.W.W. Would the expression, “once for all”, and then the subsequent two references to “in perpetuity” give to us the sense of absolute definiteness and completeness of the work of Christ, and that Christianity, as you are bringing it before us, is based on something that is settled for eternity and no one can upset it, in view of its perpetuity?

B.M.D. It is a fine word “perpetuity”; as you say, no one can upset that, for time and eternity it is settled absolutely. I do not know whether you agree, but I have a feeling that it takes us a long while to get free of guilt.

B.W.W. Yes, and yet what you are, maybe, going to add is that that freedom, that we have title to at the outset, was absolute and perfect, as you have been saying. I wonder if perhaps some of our younger ones got a sense of the complete settlement, once for all, of all that was against them, and all that could be against them, whether it would stabilise our hearts, whether we are young or old.

B.M.D. Yes, I am glad you add the last bit, because the word is for all of us, and this would settle us and give us a sense of rest and peacefulness; whatever may happen publicly, it should not disturb it. It is essential we reach this in some measure, so that we are not disturbed or affected by circumstances: but it is easy to say it.

J.S.P. Following on what you were saying, I was looking at verse 14, “For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the sanctified”. What we have said earlier as to the sanctified seems to be established and strengthened by this reference to the one offering, does it?

B.M.D. Yes, it is very fine, “he has perfected in perpetuity the sanctified”; there is nothing that could be added.

J.S.P. No, that is just what I was thinking, it is the sanctified.

B.M.D. Yes, from the divine side nothing can be added, from my side I would seek grace to maintain it; that is another side and will be with us as long as we are here, but God stands by His covenant.

J.S.P. The challenge to be equal to it ourselves is the other side, but it is one that we need to have constantly before us.

B.M.D. Well, that is one bearing of the Supper, is it not; every week we look on that loaf, what does it do to you? Really the Supper is the central point of a Christian’s experience, but we can so easily let it become a ritual; it should never be that; every time we break bread it is as if it is the last time, and it is as if the Saviour had just been slain. Is it safe to say that?

J.S.P. Unless my own heart answers to it, it is so easy for a thing like that to become, even in a small way, a formality. If we think of this one offering and are occupied with Him all the time, it is going to carry us forward in the full enjoyment of what you are speaking of.

B.M.D. I think so, so it is leading up to the enjoyment of things as together, involving the service of God, and then, of course, the testimony. That is all we are here for.

R.E.T. I like what someone has said, We come to meet the Lord; at the other meetings He comes with us, but at the Supper we come to meet Him.

B.M.D. Yes, “I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you”.

R.E.T. It does not leave us space for ritual if we have come to meet Him, the King in all His beauty.

B.M.D. Beautiful, so that is it not a weekly experience of spiritual manifestation?

R.T. This offering of His body helps us all, does it not? Does that help us as to sanctification and its fulness, to think of what is for all applying to us; the offering of His body was to God?

B.M.D. Exactly that. It has been said, but I do not know that I could understand it, that never was He more pleasurable to God than when He offered Himself without spot. Do you fathom that?

R.T. No, I think Mr Darby said if it was at all possible that He was more pleasurable to God it was then.

B.M.D. We can contemplate it, and as doing so it should have a profound effect upon us. You see we are never more, as someone else has said, than three-and-a-half days from the Supper, whether you are thinking forward or thinking back; the Lord was amongst us, the Lord came to us. Is it not to govern the way we think, what we do, in fact it would govern every facet of our lives?

P.M. He had nothing else to offer save His body; speaking carefully, that was all He had. Should that not stir us? We spend a good deal of time for our own advancement, but He had nothing else to offer.

B.M.D. How we need to feed on that blessed humanity, the incarnation, the constant food of the Christian, is it not, that life divine below, that body given up?

J.W. Here it is devoted to the will of God, is it not? “Lo, I come to do thy will”. The offering of the body of Jesus Christ, He has devoted that to the will of God. You spoke of it as affecting every facet of our lives, here was the life of One in perfection, entirely devoted to the will of God.

B.M.D. It should certainly affect every part of our lives. He was cut off in the midst of His days.

C.B. Could you say something about the removal of the first and the second established?

B.M.D. The first still gives us all the bother, is that right?

C.B. Exactly.

P.M. Could you just help us as to that because you said in the “perfected in perpetuity” from the divine side the work is complete? Why is it then that the first still gives us the bother?

B.M.D. One answer would be because we are still in these conditions, we are not yet in bodies of glory as we shall be, but He has give us of His Spirit, and we can judge ourselves in the light of the cross and the cleansing power of the water and the blood, so it is not beyond us to be in that state, and in keeping with what God has done from His side in sanctification.

E.C.M. Would the reference to Timotheus help, “Know that our brother Timotheus is set at liberty”, Heb 13: 23? Do you think the teaching of the epistle is to set us at liberty in the presence of God?

B.M.D. Yes, well, it is reaching towards what is beyond death and in Christ Jesus, it is in another Man. You see, the cross not only dealt with my sins but the man who sinned in totality has been set aside. Now that to faith should be the greatest relief, and knowing then one another in the light of ‘in Christ Jesus’, new creation.

C.C.I. Does it involve a new order of humanity to which sin does not attach? You referred earlier that it takes us a long time to get free from our guilt. Now why did you say that?

B.M.D. Because that is what I find, self occupation, we might as well be honest, but we can judge ourselves. I think it is not exactly a new order of humanity, it is a new condition He took; He terminated the condition to which sin attached. Is that right? He has established life out of death to which sin never attaches, and I am in that Man, thank God.

C.C.I. Well, is that condition the heavenly Man, reproduced in the new man here on earth, would you say that?

B.M.D. Yes, I would say that fully, He was always that. So that the new man is in testimony here representatively, characteristically the heavenly Man.

W.H.S. Does it help us all if we see in chapter 1 that He has made by Himself purification for sins and has set Himself down at the right hand of the greatness on high? That is all done and established, is it not?

B.M.D. Yes, in an absolute sense, He has done it Himself. Who else could do it? Who could add to it? The folly of detracting from it; the dreadful errors that are coming into Christendom, they are apostate. The very foundations of Christianity are being attacked, openly, blatantly. Thank God we can find a few to walk with who would zealously maintain the truth as we have been taught in the Scriptures.

D.E.R. We are thankful for what God has established, but what we are always tested about is as to whether we are in the joy of it.

B.M.D. That is it, that is what it is really all about, that the maintenance of that state should be in keeping with a sanctified company in view of the service of God and the testimony.

D.E.R. So that must involve the disallowance of the first and then the second will be established.

B.M.D. Yes, well, it is established, but it brings us back to Roman experiences, and thank God for them, never let us leave them, but then we do reach a point of stability, which becomes like a rock in your moral history. We are not tossed about, thrown about, we need not be; the Christian should be stable whatever the storm is, not thrown about by it. Is that right? If we are weak in our moral history it will be like being on the sand, we are likely to be swept away, but there is never more need than at the present time to find inward stability as in keeping with the death of the Lord.

B.W.W. We have been reminded, and it is always true, is it not, that as He is so are we in this world? That is a continuing current matter in the good of which I should be able to walk always.

B.M.D. I suppose John would maintain that line—as He is so are we in this world. But, as He is, not as He was. You are linked with another centre, you are deriving from that centre. Is that right?

B.W.W. Yes, it is, and the consciousness of it would help to lift us and help us on the selfjudgment line, would it not?

B.M.D. I think it goes with us all the time, constant self-judgment, and formation in the divine nature. Where does that take place? In the presence of God, in conscious communion.

R.T. It is beautiful to think of Him having sat down; the sanctification was in His work, but the establishing and continuation and the joy, full enjoyment, is in the fact that He has sat down, is it?

B.M.D. Surely, it would be very much. So it just occurs to me that in the next meeting we might look at the sanctification of the Spirit. It will bring in the side of things you are alluding to. Now it is to be occupied, maybe somewhat objectively, with the divine side, but we need that, do we not? Say some more, have I got your thought?

R.T. There is that danger of things being unsettled, but things are fixed in our day, are they not? The question of all that I am, it is settled in the fact that the One who met me in my condition has sat down, is it not? The apprehension of that in my soul is to bring stability, is it?

B.M.D. I think so. Would you not think that that is why the writer is bringing this truth forward to these Christians who were tending to slip away? Tending to slip away, next it is turn away, and finally fall away, which is a very, very solemn thing. What is going to maintain us in the energy of love’s expectancy?

R.E.T. There is a change in the word in the reference it says, “set”, would that be something further than “sat”?

B.M.D. Well, it confirms what our brother is saying, it is an established position. Where is He? He is at the right hand of God and there is no breakdown there.

R.E.T. It is the dignity of the Person who is able to do that, and the condition which we would come into as being linked with Him.

B.M.D. In the time of assembly sorrows let us get our eyes by faith on the Man at the right hand of God, and keep them there, and we will see things in better perspective, and maybe they will not look so bad after all!

R.E.T. Could you say a word with regard to perpetuity?

B.M.D. Well, it is the perfect work of the Lord is it not—for ever and ever? Is that right?

R.E.T. Yes, I was thinking of the fulness of it; what He does Himself in His own dignity.

C.B. The point of slipping away is slipping away from the Person, is it?

B.M.D. That is where it begins before you do anything, before you sin you let your mind dwell on something, as James says, first drawn away —then gives birth to sin, and finally it is death, see Jas 1: 14,15. But where does it begin? You lose touch with Jesus.

C.B. And then you slip away from the people.

B.M.D. Well, that comes into this passage, “not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together”, v 25. It was never more needed to be at the meetings; even if you do not quite understand what is going on, be in the company of the beloved brethren. The Lord loves us, and as we said, He is in the place of supreme authority and power; He is in full control; whatever happens, He is in control.

C.B. It is part of the great salvation now.

B.M.D. That is right, so great salvation; do not neglect it.

C.C.I. Does the word gathering have special significance in our days? The Lord does not use the word assembly again in Matthew 18, but “gathered together unto my name, there am I”, v 20. Does it also refer to the peculiar, special shepherd love of Christ which is over against the scattering?

B.M.D. I would fully agree with what you say. So there is a change in Matthew 18 to “Again I say unto you” (v 19), when He had earlier been speaking of the assembly; He is really making provision for the very days that we are in. “Again I say to you … For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them”; two assembly persons provide conditions for Christ, not officially but morally.

D.E.R. The falling away to which you have referred, does that relate to not being in accord with what God has predicated for us? We are very thankful for what is established for us in Christ, but then we might claim that and go on in sin; well that is involved in the falling away, going on with what is wrong, in which we might be involved collectively, and that is part of the falling away, is it not?

B.M.D. Well, you tremble where the slippage might end. We need to be very careful when we speak of any person as apostate, but I would think of some systems, we would need to have sober judgment of them. The Lord could speak of one—better if he had not been born, but we would not dare do that, we would rather present the gospel to them. I think there are some systems nearer than we would think who apostatise from the truth of the glad tidings. It is very solemn.

E.C.M. How does Thessalonians bear on what you are saying? “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification”, then it goes on to speak that “each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honour”, 1 Thess 4: 3, 4.

B.M.D. Yes, well that would be how I hold my body, would it not, is it on the altar? Going back to Romans it is the same thing, is it not, how I hold my body, I am no longer my own, I have been bought with a price. Have you more to say?

E.C.M. It seems to be important as to our bodies, what we do with our bodies, how we hold them, for the will of God, and the service of God.

B.M.D. Well, we feel very sympathetic with our younger brethren because we have been young too, and we want to remember how we went through the teenage years too, and did not always win our battles! I think it should not only keep us humble, but give us a tenderness as to how we can help our brethren, as shepherding—shepherds and teachers, one gift.

E.C.M. Do you think we need the help of the Spirit in order to each know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification?

B.M.D. I think we can call on the Spirit at any time, He is our best Friend. Maybe you and I at our age are not tempted as others are, but young people get themselves in situations of temptation, and what are they going to do? The name of the Lord is a strong tower, that is one thing, but I say, call on the Spirit. These things are very real, and I suppose there are plenty among us today who know what we are talking about, and we should be very sympathetic, but we cannot lower the divine standard, it is the Holy Spirit, the sanctified company—it is a holy environment in which the precious truth is worked out and enjoyed.

C.C.I. What do you understand by the word testimony? Mr Darby at the end was in very great distress of heart that God might remove His testimony.

B.M.D. Well, to me the testimony is Christ, He is the testimony. “For the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus” (Rev 19: 10); I think Mr Raven would support that. Do you remember those addresses and lectures on ‘The Testimony of the Christ’, vol 2? It would be good if everyone read them again; if you want to be steady in the present course of things get that truth established in your soul. Am I cutting across what you are saying?

C.C.I. One feels the importance of seeing that the testimony still remains in the cities where perhaps one or two may be gathered to His name. One feels the importance of this word, God’s testimony in a place. I would like help about it.

B.M.D. Surely it remains, it ever will in those faithful. He has never been without a testimony. He has got testimony in creation. He will always have a testimony. After the church is gone there will be a testimony, but I suppose we are called into the most wonderful of all testimonies, the testimony of our Lord. God has been revealed in His Son.

R.E.T. Could you make a difference between the testimony of Christ risen and Christ ascended?

B.M.D. I would like to include it all; the Spirit having come from Christ glorified. What He was here involves cardinal truth set out for us in the four gospels; but we are to know Him where He is, to be for Him where He was; it means the constant feeding on that blessed humanity.

P.M. Does it come back again to your reference to the Spirit, the testimony is not only in what is held, doctrinally, as to the glory of Christ, is it, but what is formed here in the saints?

B.M.D. Yes, well, I suppose the greatest testimony is love among yourselves. So shall all know—that is widening out—“By this shall all know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves” (John 13: 35); there is no greater testimony now than brethren walking together in unity.

D.E.B. The word in Isaiah is, “him shall ye sanctify” it is the other way round. Does that cover the whole scope of our representation?

B.M.D. I am glad you bring us to that, I was wanting to come to that, “Jehovah of hosts, him shall ye sanctify; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he will be for a sanctuary”. Again it brings us back to the Person. What is our great gathering point? Who is the centre of attraction? I know at the Supper we gather in His absence, but we gather because we love Him and we love one another. Was it not said that we greet the brethren first? It would be unreal to have the Supper if there is not active love among the brethren. That is a bit strong but I believe it is the truth.

D.E.B. By this shall all men know, that is a public witness, is it not, and if it is not there then God is not rightly represented?

B.M.D. So you would be free to bring an interested soul along to sit back at the Supper, why not? What would they see? It would be a challenge. Would they see brethren who loved one another?

D.E.B. And you could not keep anybody away from the gospel, could you?

B.M.D. Certainly not, or any meeting, save perhaps a care meeting. We have got to be very, very careful not to infer any sectarian position. If it is anything at all it is what belongs to any Christian or every Christian anywhere who had got the Spirit.

E.O.P.M. The testimony we are speaking of, love among ourselves, often has a very real effect, and those of us who feel low and depressed do not want to forget that side of the testimony, or even our young people feeling the pressure of matters and the exercise you have been speaking of as to separation from the world. The testimony of love among ourselves should be an additional lever in our heart, should it?

B.M.D. Yes, it warms us up too, love and life are pretty close you know. It was said recently that love is the life of heaven.

E.O.P.M. I think there is a lot in it.

B.M.D. I have pondered it and I think it is right, and love should be the life of the assembly; if there is no love there is nothing.

C.B. Jacob in the blessing of his sons says, “He bindeth his foal to the vine” (Gen 49: 11); can we do better than being examples?

B.M.D. Exactly, we want to keep that steadily in view. You get the word here, “Bind up the testimony”. Be not ashamed of the testimony of our Lord. I suppose Paul was saying the same thing. to Timothy; he says to Timothy, You had better rekindle those embers that are getting a bit low. There was never a greater need to be in the work of the Lord, and every one is needed, every one is a Levite; never more need to be workers together, and our toil is not in vain, in the Lord.

C.B. Where there is no wood, the fire goes out.

B.M.D. That is the other side of it; some fires it is best to let go out, but there is another fire that you have got to blow the embers. It is the wind, it is a good bellows, you know, it makes it brighten up. I think we sharpen one another you know.

A.H.M. Do you feel that we sometimes forget the feelings of the Lord in all these matters that you are speaking about?

B.M.D. Well, I thought of that, as quoted from Isaiah, “I will trust in him”. You wonder why that comes in following verse 12 of Hebrews 2, where He speaks firstly of what He does in the midst of the assembly, which opens up a wonderful subject to us. Then in verse 13, “And again, I will trust in him”. Now what does that mean? Why does he bring it in? I think there is teaching in this—to trust in Him. We need to be settled in our outlook. I think it has been said that one of the most difficult things the Lord has to teach us is to trust Him.

E.C.M. Later on in the prophet it says, “Let him confide in the name of Jehovah, and stay himself upon his God” (Isa 50: 10), that comes with experience.

B.M.D. That is very fine.

E.C.M. We need to be kept stable today, do you think?

B.M.D. We certainly do. So perhaps we could close this meeting with the thought of the family, where it says, “Behold, I and the children which God has given me”. There is much we could say of that section but fruitfulness resulting from “the grain of wheat falling into the ground” (John 12: 24), secures the great thought of the family of God, which along with the assembly, and sonship, go through collaterally into eternity.

COLCHESTER

29^th September 1984

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