WELLS AND SPRINGS (10)
[p. 176] WELLS AND SPRINGS (10)
Joshua 15: 16 - 19; Judges 5: 11; Judges 7: 1 - 8
JT We have in Achsah the assembly typified as in the land, as belonging to heavenly places. Although we are still here on earth, this applies to the saints now, for it is said, “God ... has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus”, Ephesians 2: 6. This phase of the assembly’s position, involving spiritual enjoyment, can only be by the Spirit, because, clearly, it is in heavenly places. The upper springs would allude to that. It is only in the power of the Spirit that we can enter upon this ground consciously; not only having the light of it, but consciously entering into it by the Spirit. It is definitely a heavenly position, so that Achsah asks for springs of water; she had a south land, but she wanted springs of water. The inheritance being south would suggest favourableness. God “has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ”, Ephesians 1: 3. The Spirit is alluded to in the springs.
CAM It was a gift by her father!
JT Yes. He had a distinguished history, and her husband, Othniel, was related to him, so that family feeling and spiritual affinity are strong there. We are in the most exalted and blessed environment in this type. The husband is distinguished in his military prowess, the father outstandingly distinguished, and now the spouse is distinguished in her understanding of what is needed in the position. This blessing is needed. In addressing her father, Achsah is marked by energy. She sprang off her ass, and she recognised her husband in urging him to ask; she knows what to do. The type is striking as to how she comports herself. She wanted springs. She did not say, Give me a spring; but springs, and he designated the upper [p. 177] and nether.
ANW Does what you have said explain why so much room is given to prayer in the epistle to the Ephesians?
JT Yes. The first is in regard to light: “Being enlightened in the eyes of your heart”, to know what relates to God the Father — “the hope of his calling”, the “riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints” and “the surpassing greatness of his power” (chapter 1: 18 - 20). The second prayer relates to the Father’s Spirit working in us, which is what we are considering now: “In order that ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height; and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge; that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God” (chapter 3: 18, 19).
AAT To what do the lower springs refer?
JT I would connect them with Romans; the Spirit regulating and maintaining us here, in the sphere of responsibility. Romans 5: 5 says, “The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit”. That would be the basis of the springs. Then in chapter 8 it is said, “That the righteous requirement of the law should be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit” (verse 4). The first part of chapter 8 particularly treats of the Spirit, mentioned some thirteen times, running into the thought of being led by the Spirit. “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God” (verse 14). It would allude to the final stage of the wilderness. Instead of being led by the light of the cloud on the tabernacle, we have the springing well, which alludes to the Spirit, the power by which we enter into Canaan. The upper springs would be the Spirit as viewed in Ephesians. It is the Father’s Spirit there. It strengthens us in the inner man.
ABP Is there a parallel with Acts 19?
JT That is a connecting link with what is before us — Paul’s concern as beginning the work at Ephesus. He [p. 178] came through the upper districts, and having found twelve men there, who evidently were there by divine appointment, he is especially concerned whether they had received the Holy Spirit when they had believed, putting them on their spiritual history. The point is that we should be maintained on the upper line. The lower line is Corinth, which corresponds somewhat to what we said about the Spirit in Romans — the nether springs. Apollos was there, and Paul came in on the upper line, and raised this question of the Spirit with these twelve men at Ephesus. He referred to their history; whether they had received the Spirit when they had believed. This is a matter of prime importance to the subject in mind; that is, the assembly which was developed at Ephesus; developed on the heavenly line. It says in Ephesians 1, “In whom also, having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” (verse 13). They are taken account of as sealed, and the Spirit is the Earnest of the inheritance. The apostle refers to their history as having believed. He says, “In whom we have also obtained an inheritance, being marked out beforehand according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his own will, that we should be to the praise of his glory who have pre-trusted in the Christ: in whom ye also have trusted, having heard the word of the truth, the glad tidings of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the earnest of our inheritance to the redemption of the acquired possession to the praise of his glory”, Ephesians 1: 11 - 14. I think that is linked with Acts 19 and our present scripture. It is stressing what they came into in the gift of “the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the earnest of our inheritance”.
AR In Acts 19 Paul asked the twelve men as to the Spirit; in the scripture read in Joshua, Achsah does [p. 179] the asking.
JT That brings in the assembly; the feminine side is before us; how she acted and spoke. It is not that anyone had suggested springs to her. The apostle suggested the Spirit in the antitype. He raised that question at once, connecting it with their histories since they had believed, because we can have no part at all in this matter aside from the Spirit.
CAM Would you say that the twelve at Ephesus had not followed the cloud? You said there came a time when the well took the place of the cloud.
JT Yes; it is the final part of the wilderness — from Numbers 21. It is “as many as are led by the Spirit of God” after that, which Romans 8 contemplates. It is still a wilderness position, but it is by the Spirit. At Ephesus there were twelve, as if specially ordered by God in view of the great work that was to take place there; a complete administrative number, and hence Paul’s question as to the Spirit. They said they had not heard whether He had come. So that they were defective as to current light. Apollos, in the previous chapter, was in a similar position, knowing only the baptism of John, but evidently he knew more than they did because he preached in power; he needed some adjustment, but not as much as they did.
CAM Would you say that the cloud was moving, up to that part of the Acts, toward Ephesus?
JT Yes. The movement of the cloud is seen after Acts 7. That chapter is one great landmark, and then in chapters 11, 12 and 13, it is a question of bringing Paul in. It is then the change-over to his ministry, and these men at Ephesus were defective. Although they had light through John, they had not followed up that light. They should have found out that the Holy Spirit had come, but they had not heard. That was no excuse, because it was to be heard. From the very outset Peter announced the fact that, “having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which ye behold and hear”, Acts [p. 180] 2: 33.
JTJr We have what is in Christ up there. According to Ephesians, things are in Him: “in whom we have redemption through his blood” (verse 7). It goes back to the initial thought of redemption and forgiveness of sins, but as being linked up with Christ in heaven.
JT I was thinking just today about the pattern that Moses received. God says, “See that thou make them according to their pattern, which hath been shewn to thee in the mountain”, Exodus 25: 40. So the idea of elevation enters into it. The full thought of Christ is reached as we apprehend Him in heaven; even as to our own transformation, it is according to His “body of glory”. The full thought is there, and in resting in anything less than that, we are defective. So John says, “We know that if it is manifested we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is”, 1 John 3: 2. “Even as he is, we also are in this world” (chapter 4: 17). It is the full thought that is to be kept in mind, and what have been our histories since we believed.
AR The apostle Paul stresses the idea that God has set Christ down at His own right hand in the heavenlies. We are to apprehend Christ there now.
JT Yes. Paul reached the position, because he says that he was caught up to the third heaven, that is, as far as the third heaven (see footnote to 2 Corinthians 12: 2). That is the highest creature point, I should think.
JHE How perfect Scripture is! The upper springs are mentioned first, and then the lower. We should be in the upper realm, but then the spring is available in the lower sphere to help us, too.
JT That is it. Apollos, we are told, was at Corinth, as if the lower position is maintained. If we do not maintain the lower, there will be a fall, and that is what happened at Ephesus. We will become unbalanced unless the lower position is maintained.
JS Should we go from Romans 8, spiritually, to Ephesians?
JT [p. 181] That is right. Colossians is a corrective link. But, “as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”, Romans 8: 14, connects directly with Ephesians.
AR Paul says in Ephesians 1: 22, “And gave him to be head over all things to the assembly”. Is headship operating from Him as having sat down at the right hand in the heavenlies?
JT Just so; God having given Him to be Head over all things to the assembly. So that the position is above, clearly, and all is operating from that point of view in Ephesians.
CAM Would the smiting of Kirjath-sepher suggest Christ’s greatness in what He has accomplished?
JT It is an allusion to His military prowess; Kirjath-sepher is the city of the book; a city of literature.
JS Was it not at Ephesus that they burned the books?
JT That is the fact. It is a remarkable account of the work of God through Paul. There is no account like it — the immense power there was. It is said, at that time, that napkins taken from Paul’s body effected cures.
ABP What would be the significance of the books, in a practical way, at this high point? It would be easier to understand them as a hindrance to us on a lower level.
JT It is worth considering. There are two cities mentioned in this chapter, related to each other: Kirjath-sepher, the city of the book, and Kirjath-sannah, the city of instruction. The idea of education enters into both. Such cities, in all times, have leading places in the world. What Othniel overcame would mean the overthrow of the world as it is built up. Education has one of the greatest places in it. Books, of course, go with that, but they are regarded by themselves; so the books were burned [p. 182] at Ephesus.
JS Knowledge puffeth up.
JT That is right; but it belongs to this position; it belongs to the Ephesian position. It is Joshua we are dealing with — the heavenly position. It is the standpoint of christianity fully understood, because the vessel of Acts 10 came down from heaven. It did not start from the earth; it started from heaven, and man competes with that. That is competed with and overcome in man’s idea of things, and that is what the present world is.
ANW Is that why you have the stepping-stone of Colossians between Romans and Ephesians? Is not Colossians to concentrate headship in the Lord Himself outside the range of philosophy?
JT That is right Everything must come from the Head who is in heaven, for He is there, sitting at the right hand of God. He is made Head up there; given to be Head over all things to the assembly.
ABP During the period of the so-called Reformation it was definitely of God that there should be many who were highly educated so that the structure of the truth might be unfolded accurately, and we get the benefit of that today. But would it be right to say that is hardly a necessity now that the truth has been opened up, in the ways of God?
JT Just so. The languages in which God had spoken needed to be understood thoroughly, and it was right there should be a research into the history of the Bible. That is certainly a history to be considered; the history of the Book of God. Men in those days were raised up and able to do that, and even later than that. But then, that is done, now. Of course, we need education in the ordinary sense, but the two cities taken by the men of faith in Joshua would mean that education as a worldly advantage has been overthrown in the minds of christians, and so, as we have just said, they burned the books at Ephesus — a very large number of them [p. 183] too.
JTJr Would baptism protect us in the matter of education? The household being baptised, education would not be allowed which would damage the children.
JT Baptism is the exclusion of the world. That is one principle in it. You do not need the world, as such. Colossians pursues the subject of baptism. Chapter 2 deals with these things; philosophy and vain deceit were to be refused. And so the apostle brings in baptism and carries the thought of resurrection into it, which we do not get elsewhere, showing it is an exclusive thought in Colossians, shutting out man’s world.
FNW Is the principle of separation essential to divine education? Paul separated the disciples before he taught them in the school of Tyrannus.
JT There is a sequence there. Separation from those who were hardened or refused the truth preceded the reasoning by Paul, which was carried on in the school of Tyrannus for a good while. We thus have education in separation, but it is regulated. It is not loose. Baptism enables us to exclude what would be harmful. The school of Tyrannus would mean authoritative education. If anyone brings in anything, as in Colossians — such as philosophy or vain deceit — there is no quarter for it.
AR Education in itself tends to culture flesh; the school of Tyrannus would not do that.
JT That is the point in his name being mentioned. He is authoritative and the principle is that he will not suffer what is contrary to this position of education. The world copies what God has brought in. That is a remarkable thing. In the first world, that, the antediluvian world, there were giants, men of renown. They may enter into Greek mythology. You get the acme of education in this world, in connection with Greek mythology and the like. Well now, God takes up the Greek language. He robs the devil, in that sense, by using it especially in the New Testament. It is a remarkable thing. The greatness of those men undoubtedly [p. 184] began with their ancestor, Cain; and he named his son Enoch. There were two lines; the line of the children of God running from Adam through Seth. Seth is the link on that line, and he called his son’s name Enosh. That is, that he was liable to death. He was not going to build on that line; men then began to call on the name of the Lord. Faith was in exercise, culminating in Enoch. Now Cain began his line with Enoch; the same name. That means that the devil is taking on anticipatively what belongs to God. It is the same name exactly. So that Cain, or his posterity, would say, We have an Enoch too. We have education too. But there is no idea of the seventh from Adam in that education. The seventh from Adam, as having called his wife Eve, is the line of faith, whereas Cain’s son is the line of this world. He calls the name of his son Enoch, and he calls the name of the city Enoch. They would say, This is the idea. This is the city, really, of the book, or the city of education, because all the sciences are in Genesis 4; they are in Cain’s world.
It is of the greatest importance that we should understand this elevation that we have been considering. It is education that comes out of heaven. Paul is the great leader in it. His ministry occasioned the burning of the books at Ephesus. But then he writes books; the greatest truths come out in his captivity epistles.
CAM He uses the language which God had taken on. I refer to your remark that He robbed this world in that sense. Would you connect it with the fact that He led captivity captive?
JT Yes. God has taken the Greek language. He did not make it. It was part of the world’s system, but He could use it, just as in the fall of Jericho certain things were taken on by God — not everything, but certain metals. They belong to Himself, abstractly, and of course, man’s mouth belongs to God. Greek was a human product, but it was a language that God could [p. 185] use. They did not mean it for such use, but God used it. The Lord, having come through Decapolis, which is a realm of ten cities, found a man who could not speak right and could not hear, and this caused the Lord great exercise. What could it mean? It is the terrible effect of sin in man’s mouth; man’s mouth and man’s ears and all the organs of hearing and seeing and speaking; but the Lord groaned. “And having spit, he touched his tongue; and looking up to heaven he groaned”, Mark 7: 33, 34. And the man spoke right. That is where it is said, “He does all things well; he makes both the deaf to hear, and the speechless to speak” (verse 37). How is God to be made known, save through man’s mouth? It is said of Paul that he took the lead in speaking. Through speaking, the mind of God comes to us.
WR Isaiah confesses that he is a man of unclean lips, having heard in the temple, “Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!” Isaiah 6: 3. You can hardly reconcile that in the midst of such conditions.
JT Yes; and he was purged through the coal applied to his lips. The seraph touched his lips with the coal from the altar and he was purged. So that John says triumphantly, “These things said Esaias because he saw his glory and spoke of him”, John 12: 41. He became qualified to do it.
FSC How would you reconcile Pentecost with the time of the Reformation?
JT It was the power of the Spirit there. They spoke with tongues at Pentecost, as is emphasised in Acts 2; the power of speaking with tongues; but there were no such gifts in the days of the Reformation, or later. It is a question of men learning, through ordinary means that God provided, to bring out the Scriptures in the accuracy of the original languages in which they were written. Thus christians may be assured that what they have in their hands as the Bible, is [p. 186] divinely inspired.
ABP If our young people feel restriction in education because of not being allowed to go to the universities, a study of the sanctified books would be a development in education which would help them in natural things as well as in being approved of God.
JT That is so, I am sure. You will find a spiritual, godly brother will get on in anything that is right. Piety is profitable for everything. I think the brethren will see that the education suggested in the cities we have referred to in Joshua 15 was displaced by education divinely acquired. No doubt all the apostles spoke Greek and other needed languages. It is a matter of divine gift; the gift of tongues. “We hear them speaking in our own tongues the great things of God”, Acts 2: 11. With Paul, however, it was not so primarily; although he had tongues by the Spirit too. He said, “I thank God I speak in a tongue more than all of you”, 1 Corinthians 14: 18. But evidently he knew Greek through ordinary education.
AR Of the twelve men at Ephesus, it is said they spoke with tongues and prophesied, corresponding with Acts 2. They got the gift of tongues by the Holy Spirit.
JT These things are very practical, arising out of our brother’s question as to Pentecost; how language came in then. It was not by education of the schools; it was by the sovereign gift of God by the Spirit; but later on, in the Reformation and in our times, it is a question of ordinary education. God helping certain men in acquiring what was needed for accurately translating the Scriptures. The Bible we have now is a product of that.
AR Paul says, “If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, ...” 1 Corinthians 13: 1. Would that show that the Holy Spirit is necessary to every feature of the ministry?
JT Just so. Everything must be by the Spirit. I think we all ought to try to get this thought of the heavenly line of things; how we are viewed in Ephesians,
[p. 187] anticipatively, as raised up together and made to sit down together. The together there refers to ourselves in the heavenlies in Christ. It is anticipative of the coming day, but it is also present, as a matter of light, to be taken in by faith, and entered on by the Spirit. That is what the upper springs mean; the power by the Spirit to apprehend and enter into heavenly things.
AR The Lord has ascended far above all heavens that He might fill all things; and from there we get gifts.
JT Exactly. It is from that point we get gifts. All come down from there.
JTJr Peter was adjusted on the heavenly side when the sheet came down. He had to be adjusted as to the brethren.
JT That is the lesson he had to learn; that the assembly is out of heaven. It is not the historical assembly; it is out of heaven. Peter’s name is in the foundation, but the assembly coming down out of heaven involves Paul’s line, and Peter had to understand that.
AR Would you look for every person who has gift to demonstrate in some way some heavenly feature?
JT That is the idea. “He has given some apostles”. Notice the word gift in Ephesians includes the person; not only something in him, or something given to him, but himself. In Corinthians they are set in the assembly, but the gifts in Ephesians are from Christ in heaven to the assembly; the whole man is a gift. “Some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some shepherds and teachers” (chapter 4: 11). No sign gift is mentioned. It is what is going on today in the building up of the assembly. We do not need sign gifts when the whole truth is out.
Now, as to Judges; it is to be noted that the passage which we have read from Joshua is to be found also in judges; this meaning, I think, that it comes into our own time, the time of failure. Failure had taken place.
[p. 188] Sign gifts do not come into our times, but all that lies in the Spirit in an ordinary sense of gift to us is available. These springs come into our own times; remnant times; times of failure; and so we get Achsah in the book of judges. It is a question of springs in relation to heavenly places.
Ques At the end of judges it is said, “In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did what was right in his own eyes” (chapter 21: 25). Does that synchronise with the present situation? Everybody does as he likes, whereas Gideon, in chapter 7, leads on spiritual lines.
JT And in Deborah’s song we have the word that “leaders led in Israel” (chapter 5: 2). Then our verse reads, “Because of the voice of those who divide the spoil in the midst of the places of drawing water; there they rehearse the righteous acts of Jehovah, his righteous acts toward his villages in Israel. Then the people of Jehovah went down to the gates” (verse 11). That is regulated mutual service, and it is in the midst of the places of drawing water. It is a phase of our subject. It is important as to our Bible readings. It is after a great victory, and the prophetess alludes to persons who divide the spoil. Each one who participated in the battle would have some spoil. The allusion would be to the victory, the spoil, and the voice of those who divide it. How pleasing to heaven it must be at spiritual occasions where different voices are heard; not voices of this world, but those who divide spiritual spoil! Anything anyone has is to be divided. It is not to be his own in any selfish sense, but to be divided in the place of drawing water; that is, where people come to get the water. These voices are very suggestive.
AR Verse 10 says, “Ye that ride on white she-asses, ye that sit on carpets, and ye that walk by the way, consider” (verse 10). Does that enter into our Bible [p. 189] readings?
JT Yes; it is an appeal. These are matters for us to consider at the place of drawing water. You go there because you must have the water. But then, it is the voices that you hear there. What kind of voices do you hear at a well where there is nothing else to get but literal water? Usually nothing helpful. But when spiritual refreshment is sought, how different! Judges opens with the brightest days of the book of Joshua; that is, the springs which Caleb gave to his daughter. That is the thing, and it is what came out in the final recovery in the history of the assembly. It is the first thing brought up again; that is, Christ in heaven, and the Spirit here in the assembly. There was not the same outward testimony, for remnant times are in mind, but the general position, in principle, was secured.
ANW That is evidently conveyed in the word “rehearsed”.
JT I think that is just what has come out in this matter of conversational ministry, so to speak, where we converse with one another, as Paul did at Troas. They conversed after the breaking of bread and then they went away. It was the voices of those who divide the spoil at the places of drawing water; so it is not reformation! It is the revival of the earlier features.
ABP The Spirit of God has allowed us to listen in, as it were, at the place of drawing of water in John 4. Wonderful things were being spoken there — “God is a spirit; and they who worship him must worship him in spirit and truth” (verse 24).
JT The whole of John’s ministry, especially his gospel, is to bring us back to the beginning in our consciousness, and so the Lord says of the Spirit in chapter 14, “And I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter” (verse 16). “He ... will bring to your remembrance all the things which I have said to you” (verse 26). That is, the first things are brought up again. “Remembrance” runs along with the effect of the Lord’s supper.
[p. 190] FHL Would the end of Acts 2 be included?
JT Yes. The whole position is brought back in the way of light, and the Holy Spirit brings back the consciousness of it.
CAM It gives a wonderful meaning to the book of Judges. It is a rather depressing book, but what you are referring to, bringing it into these last hundred years, really gives it a very beautiful link.
JT The angel’s activity in chapter 13 enters into this. He did “wondrously”; but in that same chapter you have Samson. He represents the underlying thought of God. He grows. He grows up and he is blessed of Jehovah, and the Spirit moves him in the camp of Daniel The Spirit moves him; that is the thing. That brings you back to the beginning. It is a question of spiritual movement; “for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”, Romans 8: 14. That is what has come out in our times. It is not great exploits, but it is growing up normally. We are not coming in by short cuts; we have grown up in the position if we are in it according to God, and then the Spirit moves you in “the camp of Dan”, that is, your own locality.
FNW Would these references to the places of drawing water, the villages and the gates, have in mind recovery of the local assembly truth?
JT I think so. The village would allude to the local assembly, I think. Now things are as they should be. Leaders are leading, and villages are being revived. In earlier days it was not so, Deborah says.
AR So that there was a revival according to what she says in verse 12: “Awake, awake, Deborah! awake, awake, utter a song! Arise, Barak, and lead captive thy captives”. That is really Ephesians 4. It is going back to what was at the beginning.
JT I think that is the lesson in what we are engaged with now in Judges; the revival of what had ceased. It has come to light again. So you have leaders who led in Israel — gates and villages that did not exist before,
[p. 191] but they do now, she says; and this matter of “the voice of those who divide the spoil in the midst of the places of drawing water” is most suggestive. It is like the Bible readings, we may say, because it is through them largely, that the truth has been developed.
TEH In a small local meeting, there are great difficulties in dividing the spoil with so few at the readings.
JT The volume may be small, but normally there will be something. A meeting may invite other meetings in a district, but this does not impair its status; but a district special meeting would, and should, be avoided. Deborah says here, “In the days of Shamgar the son of Anath, in the days of Jael, the roads were unused, and the travellers on highways went by crooked paths. The villages ceased in Israel, ceased until that I Deborah arose, that I arose a mother in Israel” (verses 6, 7). That is what you need in the little meetings; not simply the spoil, but motherly qualities, persons who can provide and convey the mind of God.
JTJr What our brother suggests in regard to small meetings might come out in chapter 7 where the army was greatly reduced. The fact that they were reduced did not mean there was not enough to carry on.
JT There were plenty to carry on; there were too many. That raises another important question as to the use of the water. Do we use the water, taking it lazily or naturally, or taking it with the agility and skill of a dog? The point is to do it in a way that does not involve any loss of time. The battle does not suffer from your natural necessities. So that, “Bring them down to the water” is a remarkable thing, entering into our subject. “And Jehovah said to Gideon, Still the people are many; bring them down to the water, and I will try them for thee there, and it shall be, that of whom I shall say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I shall say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go. And he brought down the people to the water; and Jehovah [p. 192] said to Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down on his knees to drink” (verses 4, 5). This is the test. Those who drink like a dog are set by themselves; and the others likewise. And then we are told, “And the number of them that lapped, with their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men; and all the rest of the people bowed down on their knees to drink water” (verse 6). So that the test is there, and the great majority were exposed to be just natural. They are assuming to be with Gideon, but they are exposed as on natural lines.
ABP The water here would be a type of the Spirit?
JT Yes. The general position is the spring Harod. It is a spring, the name of which means ‘trembling’ — alluding to the state of the people. That is where they were.
JTJr It is not those who stay home here; it is those who are sent home.
JT They are exposed, and hence under reproach in the eyes of the spiritual. Those who lapped like a dog are mentioned first, and in the eyes of heaven they are taking the water properly. That is, in a spiritual sense; it is not done in a natural way, but in an unnatural way.
ABP We should not say, ‘That was a very good meeting’, and then promptly forget what was ministered. Rather, we should be moved by what we have gathered up.
JT Quite so. You are marked off, set by yourself. Heaven is looking on. The spiritual are looking on. It is how you take the water; how you attend the meetings; how you read the Bible; how you appropriate spiritual things.
FHL What would you say about the twenty-two thousand who were afraid to go on?
JT They were fearful. It must be borne in mind that this is a divine test. God is not saying they are bad people. He is bringing out one thing. He is going to [p. 193] reduce the number lest Israel should vaunt themselves, and God takes this way to make the test — how we appropriate the Spirit. The test is as to where we are; whether we are doing it on natural lines or on spiritual lines. “And now proclaim in the ears of the people, saying, Whoever is timid and afraid, let him go back and turn from mount Gilead. And there went back of the people twenty-two thousand; and there remained ten thousand” (verse 3). It is a remarkable process. Now this is going to be very drastic. It was a great test for Gideon and all the spiritual, but gradually they would see the wisdom of God, that this victory is going to be in the power of God: “Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith Jehovah of hosts”, Zechariah 4: 6; and that comes out in the persons being affected rightly in partaking of the Spirit. We must go on, for whether it is eternal counsel or ministry, it is God’s own number, and everybody, in final result — indeed everything must depend on God’s number, and He brings out His number here by this test.
RWS It seems to be a secret test. God does not seem to tell Gideon what it is going to be, as if we can be prepared for it.
JT It is the test that is going on. There is nothing happening among the people of God that He is not noticing. That is seen here. I will try them for thee, He says. Mark you, it was only when they went down to the water. It is remarkable how the passage reads. God says to Gideon, “Bring them down to the water, and I will try them for thee there” (verse 4). Notice, it is there. “And it shall be, that of whom I shall say unto thee. This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I shall say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go”. Well, how is it done? God says it is through the way they take the water. He is acting through the way they appropriate the water, showing who the real ones are. “And he brought down the people to the water; and [p. 194] Jehovah said to Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth ...” (verse 5). He did not tell him that at the beginning; He kept this back until they were at the water. Jehovah says, “By the three hundred men that lapped will I save you, and give Midian into thy hand; and let all the people go every man to his place” (verse 7). That is, God is doing it, so that nobody will escape what is going on amongst us. He is dealing with every matter and every person.
CAM I suppose the three hundred must have remained on their feet, or were ready to continue at once. It is quite a test when we are in the presence of spiritual ministry, to be ready to make a move at once.