REVIVAL (3)
[p. 54] REVIVAL (3)
2 Chronicles 34: 14 - 33; 2 Chronicles 35: 1 - 19
JT We can see, I believe, in this inquiry that each revival in Israel has an especial feature. So in Hezekiah’s revival we see the wealth developed, and then how they had recourse to what should mark the dispensation publicly. It is obvious that in a revival attention has to be paid to moral conditions first; and as we saw in the reading yesterday morning, the process brings out the latent wealth that is there, increasing as the feast goes on and as the season of blessing goes on. In chapter 30 there was the passover which suggests what marks the dispensation, what marked that dispensation; the Lord’s supper correspondingly marks ours, and the public service of God, the order that attends it. Thus I think the brethren will have seen that this line of truth is most important for us, verified in our own times in the revival that God has graciously granted in our dispensation, into which we have come and which we are now enjoying. Our responsibility is to maintain it. There was nothing, we are told, like that which Hezekiah inaugurated in the way of revival since the days of Solomon. It lasted fourteen days, it is a double feast marked by joy.
Now Josiah’s passover has its own features. It is still the passover but it excels Hezekiah’s in that it is held on the fourteenth day of the first month instead of the fourteenth day of the second month, meaning that there was more readiness on this occasion of Josiah’s than on Hezekiah’s. The outstanding feature here, I think, is the discovery of the book of the law, which is another great feature that God is reviving — the authority of Scripture as over against the lawlessness which is marking current professed ministry around us. And another thing that may be mentioned in a preliminary way is the [p. 55] youthfulness of this monarch. We are told he was eight years old when he began to reign. This is a feature we do well to observe because God is verifying it I believe, indeed I know, in the work in the young amongst us. Since the borrowed principle of Sunday Schools has been exposed and set aside there has been more divine work in very young people. The work leads into the assembly faster than it used to from those schools, for the young get right terms and right feelings amongst the brethren, where they should be and where they should learn. So I think the Spirit of God would remind us in Josiah’s service how the young, very young persons, may come into the service. We have his age given first when he began to reign, and then what happened in the eighth year of his reign, in the twelfth year of his reign, and the eighteenth year of his reign, the last bringing him up to the age of twenty-six in which his greatest service was rendered.
AB The cleansing and purging seem to enter into this. Would you say something about that?
JT Hezekiah’s exercise was to open the doors of the house of God and to repair them and then to cleanse the temple. But here Josiah is concerned first of all in the twelfth year of his reign, that is when he was twenty years of age, “to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the Asherahs, and the graven images, and the molten images. And they broke down the altars of the Baals in his presence; and the sun-pillars that were on high above them he cut down; and the Asherahs and the graven images and the molten images he broke in pieces, and made dust of them and strewed it upon the graves of those that had sacrificed to them; and he burned the bones of the priests upon their altars, and purged Judah and Jerusalem. And so did he in the cities of Manasseh and Ephraim and Simeon, even to Naphtali, in their ruins round about; and [p. 56] he broke down the altars, and beat the Asherahs and the graven images into powder, and cut down all the sun-pillars throughout the land of Israel, and returned to Jerusalem”. This is a remarkable range of service, the greatest service rendered by a young servant. But we have to take him not only as a person but as a principle of youthful energy in whomsoever it may be seen acting authoritatively for the general purgation of the saints. There is a ministry which deals with the house of God and the service of God and a ministry that deals with the general state of the saints. The latter requires courage and moral authority, and I think that is seen here. The royal power that this king exercises is symbolical or typical of the authority of Christ exercised now in the power of the Spirit, which will always accompany spiritual ministry.
CHH He seems to be acting on instincts rather than on writing at first.
JT That is very good, showing that the work of God is true to itself even before the Scriptures are understood, so that he is ready for the Scriptures when they are brought to him. He is not like a man that goes into things himself and disregards Scripture; he may be ignorant of Scripture but his instincts are right and when the Scriptures are brought to him he is most submissive to them. When the book is found he is affected by it. He accepts responsibility in the eighth year of his reign: “While he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father; and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem”. That is a word for the present time so that we should not despise youth; on the other hand they should see to it that they are not to be despised. If they are marked by a spirit like this they will not be despised.
JWD What would you say about brothers in a care meeting having difficulty in affording young boys [p. 57] and girls the right to break bread because they fear that afterwards they might not be able to stand?
JT That is the reason, I think, that the Spirit of God stresses these stages in Josiah’s life, showing how they may stand. The work of God will stand even in young people, so that the point is to see that it is the work of God. It will be normal — you do not expect grey-haired experience from a boy of twelve, or a girl of twelve; but if the work of God is there it will be true to itself. How exposed they are in the schools! And I believe they should be particularly remembered in that way in our prayers. The Lord is able to make them stand.
EP Is there any particular significance in the last verse of the preceding chapter, “And the people of the land made Josiah his son king in his stead”? I was thinking of the spiritual instincts of the saints coming forward in regard to these things. What do you think?
JT It would seem that the general thought of the people was right. The general consensus of opinion is not always right; it is sometimes very wrong, and hence the need of leaders to give a right lead in these acts. It would appear here that the people of the land were right; they had the mind of God. They did not say, Josiah is too young to be upon the throne; and God honoured their action.
SP “Amon was twenty-two years old when he began to reign”, chapter 33: 21. They put him down.
JT He was not a good choice. He was much older than Josiah when he began to reign, and now the condition of the people of the land had changed. It shows that all these things have to be read in the scripture contextually. What is the context? The context of the scripture here would indicate that the people of the land were right in making this young boy king. There must have been something potential there that was indicated in subsequent [p. 58] history.
AB Would you say too that the work began in him when he was eight years old? “Josiah was eight years old when he began to reign”.
JT There was something there undoubtedly and the Spirit of God gives scope in the young. We give him eight years to see what that will bring out, for time has its own results. There is no deterioration in him at all, but the contrary; he has the idea of purging the whole country, a big thought, going even beyond Judah and Jerusalem.
Ques “He began to seek after the God of David his father”; that is a good trait, is it not?
JT You are referring to verse 2: it says, “He did what was right in the sight [p. 62] of Jehovah, and walked in the ways of David his father, and turned not aside to the right hand nor to the left. And in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father; and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the Asherahs, and the graven images, and the molten images”. I think the Spirit of God is calling attention to the sections or periods of his life; so that the young may come in at the age of eight, nine, ten, eleven or twelve, be subject to the truth and to their parents, come to the meetings and enjoy them; and then it is for the brethren to watch and see whether time has a deteriorating influence or the contrary. If it is steady improvement, well that is the work of God.
JB Proverbs 8: 17 says, “I love those that love me; and they that seek me early shall find me”. Would this be in keeping with chapter 34: 3?
JT “They that seek me early”, that is what you mean.
SP Does the spiritual movement of Josiah connect up with 2 Timothy? The apostle speaks of Timothy’s grandmother — first of himself, then of [p. 59] his grandmother and then of his mother. Would that agree with this?
JT It is Timothy that the apostle enjoins, “Let no one despise thy youth” (1 Timothy 4: 12), as much as to say, This is a youth worth caring for. “Give heed to thyself”, he says, and “youthful lusts flee, and pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace”, 2 Timothy 2: 22. It is a responsibility put on the young to see to themselves, because their youth will be despised unless they show that the work of God is paramount in them.
JWD What would you look for in a young person seeking his place at the Lord’s supper? You know there is considerable difficulty about this question.
JT In a general way it is a question of instinct that I should look for, whether the instincts there are the mark of the work of God. You get with Jacob, for instance, as unborn, that he is a supplanter. He had no intelligence from education at all, but the instinct was there that he supplanted somebody else, the man after the flesh. That is one thing that may appear in the very earliest stage of life. We get with John the baptist, the babe as yet unborn, that he rejoiced as the voice of the Lord’s mother fell upon the ears of his mother, one of the most striking things. All that is to bring out the instincts of the work of God in the very earliest stages of human life. Then when children are being trained at their father’s table and in his house, and come to the meetings, it is for parents to watch for these instincts; and the Scriptures enjoin that the truth is to be kept before them in a whole or full way, as illustrated in the idea of the omer of manna. The child is sitting down at his father’s breakfast table and it is a large family, perhaps one may be fifteen years of age and others right down to three. The child of three has the same [p. 60] amount of manna as the father and mother have and the other children. If he is an inquiring child he would say, ‘Why do I get as much as you?’ ‘My child, that is God’s thought for you. You are going to be a man like me. God has no other thought for you at all’. The idea in humanity is not minors or young children but men; hence the first mention of a babe is that he is a man. Eve says, “I have acquired a man with Jehovah”, Genesis 4: 1. So the Lord says, “A man has been born into the world”, John 16: 21. God has no other thought than to make men, not make children but make men. I think if we follow its instincts we shall see developed how God is working in the child.
JB Hannah’s great exercise in connection with Samuel was seen in the instincts that came out in him later. Her desire was for a man child, and bringing a coat every year would suggest there was development on these lines.
JT She had no other thought than that he should be a man and take up things for God. I think the periods or stages here in Josiah’s life are very instructive and ought to appeal to every young child in this room. He is in fellowship, you might say, at eight years of age; he is on the throne. At the age of sixteen we are told, “In the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father; and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem”; and in verse 8, “And in the eighteenth year of his reign, when he purged the land and the house, he sent Shaphan the son of Azaliah, and Maaseiah the governor of the city, and Joah the son of Joahaz the chronicler, to repair the house of Jehovah his God”. What a man he was to send these men! What moral power he had to do this, to repair the house of Jehovah his God; not the doors only but the whole [p. 61] house!
EP Do you think in seeking after the God of David his father, he had taken on what had preceded? It was “David his father”.
JT I think so. David, as we had yesterday, is the standard for all the following kings; and this young king, while he was yet young, “began to seek after the God of David his father”.
Ques Would the twelfth year of his reign refer to the reaching of the military age, twenty years old? It would be in keeping with the book of Numbers.
JT It is the military age, but he really attained the military age before in the manly qualities that marked him.
CHH Would the evidence of the work of God in a young person be demonstrated by progress instinctively, in that Josiah did not follow in the steps of his own natural father or grandfather? He passes them over and goes back to David.
JT I think that is good. These stages in his life are a guide to us to watch our children. A year ago perhaps my child professed to love the Lord and may have wished to break bread with us. What is he now? Has he made any progress in the time? Because time has its own effect.
EGMcA Would you say that in the eighth year of his reign, when “he began to seek after the God of David his father”, the light of his position had come home to him? And then we get what follows from there so that in the eighteenth year of his reign he breaks loose from everything that would contradict that position, because these things he breaks down have a religious aspect, have they not?
JT Quite so. You are struck with his courage and the wide sphere of operations he takes on, not only in Jerusalem and Judah, but in the other tribes’ territories.
GAT The secret of all his progress was in the second verse: “He did what was right in the sight of Jehovah, and walked in the ways of David his father, and turned not aside to the right hand nor to the left”. Would that be the line of walking in the Spirit?
JT Quite so; verse 2 is the whole life of the man. It is a sort of introductory word: This is the man we are going to speak of. His whole life is marked in this way; I would like to get the stages of it. Verse 3 begins the stages. We note the effect of time in a brother’s life, whether a year makes any difference in him. If it does not there is not much to look for in him.
JB “The earth bears fruit of itself, first the blade, then an ear, then full corn in the ear”, Mark 4: 28.
JT It is the question of seed-time and harvest; the year is divided in that way. It is to bring out what time can do. You must put the seed into the ground, and it must be nurtured; there must be proper attention paid to it.
Ques I baptise my children, but what have I got in view?
JT Quite so. You have the mind of God in view for them.
Ques Should I not be looking for them to come into fellowship, and the earlier the better?
JWD What are you going to do if the brethren are not happy? They say, Well, in bygone ministry certain prominent brethren decried the idea of young children coming into fellowship.
JT One is struck in these great revivals by the great stress laid on the Levites. They refer to brothers of vigour, they are not to serve after they are fifty. They begin at thirty, they are mature; it is twenty with David, but primarily from thirty to fifty years. I believe it is in the ministry that these unhappy brothers should be met. You say they are [p. 63] not happy; well, sometimes we do not need to be happy to assert what is right. I think the way the Levites are stressed in these revivals is to call attention to the ministry amongst us, that we are to be in vigour in intelligence, indeed, but in vigour in dealing with all these irregularities. We have carried down considerable tradition and that tradition has to be hewed to pieces if it is not right, not according to God. I believe the prophetic ministry is to meet all that. These meetings for ministry bring in the mind of God, bring it in in power; there it is, that is the truth of this matter or that. Here it is in regard of young people.
JWD You mean in this scripture?
JT In this very scripture.
WL In regard of young people coming in, where would the responsibility lie? In the persons themselves?
JT I think so. There ought to be individual responsibility; every young person is responsible.
WL There has been a good deal said in regard to the responsibility of the parents. I was wondering about 1 Corinthians 11: 29 in regard of responsibility, as to the discernment of the body of Christ.
JT There ought to be a sense of responsibility in the persons themselves. The parents do not bring them into fellowship; they cease as to any authority with a child as to his place in fellowship. He puts in his claim to the assembly, and it is a matter for the brethren then; they look for a sense of responsibility in the young person and we ought to look for it, because he should stand on his own feet if he is in fellowship; he is a board of the tabernacle, potentially at least; that is, he stands with other boards on the ground of redemption. The parents are responsible to God as to what they have in mind for him. In the Jewish economy the Jewish child had the same [p. 64] amount of manna as the father. We have to determine what that means. I say to my child, You are in the mind of God the same as I am; you are intended by God to be in the tabernacle as I am.
SP Moses was nourished in the house of his father three months. That nourishment carried him right through the forty years.
JT That is a good illustration, for that nourishment carried him right through for the first forty years. We must bear in mind in speaking of Moses the kind of parents he had, they were both of the house of Levi, Levites. So he would be like Timothy; he was nourished in the house of his father.
AHP In speaking of the instinctive evidences of the work of God, it is not merely the age by itself, but some feature of the work of God, however small, in the person which is the thing to go by.
JT Quite so.
CHH The man in John 9 was forced to stand on his feet by his parents.
JT They did not help him; “He is of age”, that would apply when a young person is seeking fellowship. It is a question of his individuality. He has to reach the thought of “I myself with the mind serve God’s law” (Romans 7: 25); that really is the beginning of things.
Rem You would say it is the positive side of what you have been saying in regard to the young, as Paul speaking about Timothy to the Philippians, “For I have no one like-minded who will care with genuine feeling how ye get on” (chapter 2: 20). “But ye know the proof of him, that, as a child a father, he has served with me in the work of the glad tidings” (verse 22). There is the positive side of what we see in the young.
JT Serving with Paul has that feature, quite so. That is one point in our subject this afternoon.
[p. 65] Then the next thing is the authority of Scripture, how that came in in this particular revival and how it discloses that whilst we may have revival as in Josiah’s time, yet it may not go on to the end. That is another very solemn consideration. The introduction of the prophetic word to him from Huldah is, “Thus saith Jehovah the God of Israel: Tell the man that sent you to me, Thus saith Jehovah, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, all the curses that are written in the book which they have read before the king of Judah. Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my fury shall be poured out upon this place, and shall not be quenched. But to the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of Jehovah, thus shall ye say to him, Thus saith Jehovah the God of Israel touching the words which thou hast heard: Because thy heart was tender, and thou didst humble thyself before God, when thou heardest his words against this place and against the inhabitants thereof, and humbledst thyself before me, and didst rend thy garments and weep before me, I also have heard thee, saith Jehovah. Behold, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered to thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil that I will bring upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof. And they brought the king word again”. Now one calls attention to this as a prophetic word because peculiar stress is being laid on the thought of prophecy just now. It reminds the king that although he is leading in this great revival it may not go on to the end. That is one of the solemn things; whilst we may be enjoying good times we have to inquire — How long is this going to last? And am I depending on someone else for it or am I going to make it last? That is the effect of a word like this.
SMcC Jeremiah’s ministry would show while they turned outwardly, many of them, in heart were not really in it.
JT That would show the rapidity that marked the departure after Josiah’s death. It is very solemn, showing that one man may be used of God to influence the revival of the truth in this way and yet it may not last. That is one of the most solemn things we can think of. The question is, Am I going to make it last or am I depending upon someone else?
CHH How would you apply that in the present day? Do you think we should not look for it lasting?
JT I am only saying the prophetic word should be attended to whatever it says. The revival that had come in, that was current, was not going to last, and surely that was a word for everybody. If I had been there with the light I have now, I would say, That is a serious matter, we must turn to God about it; because we know that He changed His mind about Nineveh, and the Spirit of God teaches us that He is ready to change His mind if we are willing to repent.
EGMcA The word of God may come to me as I read the Scriptures, but going to the prophetess Huldah indicates that I cannot read the Scriptures independently of ministry as it comes out through the Levites.
JT Quite so; that is what gift is for. “Having ascended up on high, he has led captivity captive, and has given gifts to men”, Ephesians 4: 8. “And he has given some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some shepherds and teachers, for the perfecting of the saints; with a view to the work of the ministry” (verses 11, 12). Hence we find in Ezra and Nehemiah that the Levites give the sense of the Scriptures; that is what meetings of this kind and our weekly readings are for, that the Scriptures might be opened up to [p. 67] us.
CHH What is the moral bearing of the keeping of the wardrobe and the second quarter of the town? Would that suggest the moral features of a prophet?
JT The idea of the wardrobe (whether it was she who kept it or her husband, she is connected with it) is quite extensive in Scripture. We know there are different robes, and the one who keeps it would know what the different robes are. She could tell you what the best one was like: “Bring forth the best robe”, the father said that to his bondmen. They are supposed to know the best robe, the one to bring for this particular occasion. There are other robes in the wardrobe. It is very significant that it comes in here. And she lived in the second quarter of the city; that would mean she was not an aristocrat; she was an ordinary person. She did not live on Fifth Avenue or in the West End.
EGMcA Would having to do with the wardrobe indicate that I am clothed now according to the prophetic word?
JT That is the thought. The prophet, or here it is the prophetess, would indicate the kind of robe to be worn. Josiah rent his garments you see; that would mean that what he had was not suitable.
CHH Was not Paul able to clothe the Corinthian saints in the very best robe? In spite of their state he clothed them with the thoughts of God, he maintained their dignity.
JT That is very good. The first eight verses of the epistle is clothing them with the very best; that is, it helps to remind the saints of what they are in the mind of God. What a garment belongs to them! The ones we have on are not suitable; that is the idea of rending the garments. So Elisha parted his garments in two and took up the mantle of Elijah.
TU Why is it a woman who prophesied? What is the bearing of it in connection with the thought that is before [p. 68] us?
JT The bearing is that the sisters here should take it to heart. Have they ever spoken a prophetic word to the brethren? Why should a sister not speak a prophetic word if she is with God? There are other things that would keep her from giving an address, but Philip had four daughters who prophesied. They did the work.
EGMcA Do you think by Josiah rending his garments that he was ready for the prophetic word of the moment from Huldah?
JT I think so. He was ready to listen to the prophetic word, “And the king sent and gathered all the elders of Judah and of Jerusalem. And the king went up into the house of Jehovah, and all the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests and the Levites, and all the people, great and small; and he read in their ears all the words of the book of the covenant which had been found in the house of Jehovah”. He wanted everybody to hear what he had heard. He is not afraid of reading the book of the law, the prophetic message does not deter him from having it read. That is what I think is very fine, he is ready for the full force of the Scriptures.
EGMcA The sword of the Spirit.
JT Quite so.
Rem These men went to her (verse 22). That is an important feature, the brothers do not ignore the sisters.
JT The king told them to go to her, “And it came to pass when the king heard the words of the law, that he rent his garments. And the king commanded Hilkijah, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Abdon the son of Micah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asaiah a servant of the king, saying, Go inquire of Jehovah for me, and for them that are left in Israel and in Judah, concerning the words of the book which is found: for great is the wrath of [p. 69] Jehovah that is poured out upon us, because our fathers have not kept the word of Jehovah, to do according to all that is written in this book. And Hilkijah and they that the king had appointed went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tokehath, son of Hasrah, keeper of the wardrobe; now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the second quarter of the town; and they spoke with her to that effect”.
SMcC Is it not all the more remarkable when we think that Jeremiah was present at the time and his ministry going out, but yet they go to Huldah? Perhaps there is a tendency with us to despise the more obscure side of the prophetic element amongst us.
JT She is linked up with the wardrobe and she dwells in the second part of the city. She is not a person that is of national repute. But these men knew where to go to get the word of God, they knew who to inquire of.
EGMcA The Scripture says, “The priest’s lips should keep knowledge”. Why would he go to Huldah? What is the significance of that?
JT She is called a prophetess. The king knows her apparently. Do you not think we ought to know the persons who are likely to have the mind of God?
EGMcA Would it be the exercise of priestly instinct?
JT Exactly. Priesthood is one thing; prophecy is another.
CHH Would Sarah’s word be prophetic? The Lord tells Abraham to listen to Sarah.
JT Just so. Why should not the sisters be able to help as to the mind of God? We have abundant evidence that the Lord uses them, as in this instance. Why not now? I know of nothing to be coveted by any one of us more than to be able to convey the mind of God to the brethren [p. 70] in a crisis.
CHH Deborah was greatly used in a crisis.
Rem Deborah dwelt under her own palm tree, and all Israel came to her. She had her own judgment about matters.
JT I would say she was victorious over herself. The palm means victory over herself. Now the effect of the prophetic word is, “And the king sent and gathered all the elders of Judah and of Jerusalem”. It is the king who is doing it. “And the king went up into the house of Jehovah, and all the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests and the Levites, and all the people, great and small; and he read in their ears all the words of the book of the covenant which had been found in the house of Jehovah”. The next thing is that he got all the people there. The king is in his place, and the prophet. If we are to act according to the mind of God each one is to be in his place, whatever place God has assigned to him in the testimony. Let me be there, let me be where I should be. The king was in his place here and so we have great results, “And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before Jehovah, to walk after Jehovah, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all his heart and with all his soul, to perform the words of the covenant that are written in this book. And he caused all that were present in Jerusalem and Benjamin to stand to it. And the inhabitants of Jerusalem did according to the covenant of God, the God of their fathers. And Josiah removed all the abominations out of all the countries that belonged to the children of Israel, and made to serve all that were found in Israel — to serve Jehovah their God, all his days they did not depart from following Jehovah, the God of their fathers”. I think that is a remarkable tribute to a man who is true. He had gone on all these years and now he is in his place and we see the moral power he has got with [p. 71] the whole community. All the days of his life they served Jehovah. It is a question of what moral power I have got in serving the Lord amongst His people.
SMcC Is not verse 32 important? We might say, Well, I am sure that is right, and perhaps not do it; but it says here, “He caused all that were present ... to stand to it”.
JT That would show what kingly power is. All power, of course, is in the hand of Christ in heaven and on earth, but He uses a man here. It is Christ’s power, it is royal power, but it is exercised in certain ones. It is a question of what each one is, standing in his own place and serving faithfully.
TU Is the thought that if one is to be a man of weight he must answer to the prophetic word?
JT That is the thing if we have a prophetic meeting, to listen for the mind of God coming to us. The next thing is that there is something for me: I say, I got a word there tonight. It is those who hear the word of God and do it, those are the brethren.
SP To go back to what is effected in Josiah, the place he gave the sin-offering in verse 21: “For great is the wrath of Jehovah that is poured out upon us, because our fathers have not kept the word of Jehovah”. Do you think in any way there is a lack amongst us on this line? He did not detach himself from the “us”; he included himself in it. It led to his power.
JT Quite so, the prophetic word takes account of that. You notice the first message of the prophetess is to the man that sent them; Josiah is addressed as a man. He, as a man, is linked up with all men, they are going to suffer. But there is a second message, in verse 26: “But to the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of Jehovah, thus shall ye say to him, Thus saith Jehovah the God of Israel touching the words which thou hast heard”. This is another idea,
[p. 72] he is now respected as the king of Judah. “Because thy heart was tender, and thou didst humble thyself before God, when thou heardest his words against this place and against the inhabitants thereof, and humbledst thyself before me, ... I also have heard thee, saith Jehovah. Behold, I will gather thee unto thy fathers ...”. I think we ought to notice that, the difference between the two parts of the prophetic message. The first is a great general thought, that Josiah is just a man; in the second part he is king of Judah; his own personal qualities are touched upon. God differentiates between the man and the king because as king he stands in relation to the whole position.
SP Would that help us in our local administrations? Sometimes we detach ourselves in a matter of discipline and we lose the value of it and lose power in a matter of administration.
JT The man that accepts responsibility accepts the responsibility for the whole position. That is a good point.
EP Would the Lord’s special words to the overcomer fit in with this word to the king of Judah? There is the more general message to the assembly and then there is the word to the overcomer.
JT Exactly. There is a difference between the angel and the overcomer; the angel represents all.
JRH This word of the prophetess Huldah was spoken to five men appointed by the king. Is it in order for a sister to speak to a few brothers what she believes to be the mind of God?
JT By all means; I have experienced that on more than one occasion, a sister conveying the mind of God. The Lord will give His mind to sisters if they ask for it. If sisters accept the general responsibility of the position and are before God about it they will get His mind. Why not? He will honour sisters as well as brothers. There are other principles [p. 73] that keep them from public speaking; nevertheless God uses sisters who cover their heads and recognise the authority above them. It is in subjection that they are used.
AB I was thinking that the Lord sent the woman in John 20 to the brethren.
JT She went and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord and that He had said these things to her. She does not teach them; she conveys the word.
Ques It is quite helpful in administrative matters to identify ourselves with the brethren by the word ‘we’ instead of saying ‘they’, I notice in difficulties we are prone to say, They did this and they did that. Do you think it would be more helpful to identify ourselves with the matter even if it is wrong?
JT It is our matter. Every sister should look at it in that light, and brothers too.
GAT Daniel said, “We have sinned”, Daniel 9: 5.
JT Quite so.
JV Would you say a word in regard to the book of the covenant? Evidently it had a great effect upon them.
JT It is general, of course; it was the book of the law and the book of the covenant. Hilkijah says, “I have found the book of the law” (verse 15). That is one title of it, it is a question of the will of God, the assertion of His will. The book of the covenant is an expression of what He is to us in His love; it is well worth thinking of, and looking at it from that point of view. The covenant is God entering into an engagement, and that engagement is the outcome of what He is in Himself.
JRH The book of the covenant was made in the land of Moab and was put inside the ark. I thought that the reading of this book in the ears of the people, both great and small, was the fulfilling of the injunction at the end of Deuteronomy, when all the people were to be gathered together, men,
[p. 74] women and children, that even the children who did not know Jehovah might learn and fear.
JT I am thankful for what you said about Deuteronomy. There was an additional book given, an additional covenant, but the book of the law is the primary book of God, asserting His rights as at Sinai. And the book of the covenant is what He is, not only His will but His affections towards us, a very touching thing. Chapter 35 begins, “And Josiah held a passover to Jehovah in Jerusalem”, a fine pronouncement about this king in verse 1. This word ‘and’ is additional; it links on with chapter 34. We are notified here that it is a superior passover to Hezekiah’s because the additional month of grace which was allowed in the book of Numbers is not sought here; it is not needed. Hezekiah’s passover was in the second month but Josiah’s was in the first month, the primary thought of God, showing that there was a condition here to be noted. So that we are told in the last verse we read, “And there was no passover like to that holden in Israel from the days of Samuel the prophet; neither did all the kings of Israel hold such a passover as Josiah held, and the priests, and the Levites, and all Judah and Israel that were present, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. In the eighteenth year of the reign of Josiah was this passover holden”. That is when he was twenty-six years of age. I think that is a very fine tribute. Then in connection with the passover, the ordering and authority of the king were used to establish headship and the working of love in the courses. It says in verses 2 and 3, “And he set the priests in their charges, and encouraged them to the service of the house of Jehovah. And he said to the Levites, that taught all Israel, and who were holy to Jehovah, Put the holy ark in the house that Solomon the son of David, king of Israel, built; ye have not to carry it upon your shoulders”. We do well to take notice of [p. 75] these facts because here Josiah is at his best spiritually; he is ordering the priests to be in their courses and he is honouring the Levites, telling them that they are holy and that they taught all Israel, that they are to put the holy ark where it should be. In the whole chapter as we shall see, everything is where it should be, and every person. It would give the best results for each person and thing to be where it should be according to divine prescription. So we have the priests in their courses and then we have the Levites looking after the ark, putting it where it should be. Then we have in verse 10, “And the service was prepared, and the priests stood in their place, and the Levites in their divisions, according to the king’s commandment”. Then we are told in verse 15, “And the singers, the sons of Asaph, were in their place”. This is very remarkable instruction as to revival, it is calling upon every brother, sister and child to be in his place. God has an assigned place for each of us, and we are to be there. You are on call.
CHH Would the fact that it was the eighteenth year of his reign, corresponding to the same year that he sought word from the prophetess, prove that the prophetic word was used to put everybody in his place?
JT I think that helps. God is constantly calling attention to the value of the prophetic word. What results it obtains amongst us! It is within the range of every one of us, both brothers and sisters, to get a word from God. How it is said is another matter, but it is possible to get a word from God.
SMcC Would the suggestion of the “holy ark” link with the presentation of Christ to Philadelphia, “the holy, the true”?
JT I think that is good; so that it is a question of the Levites, “Ye have not to carry it upon your shoulders”, as Josiah said. David had said it before;
[p. 76] it is not an onerous service. Put it where it should be, and that is the place that Solomon built for it. There is no doubt about the place; it is the house built by the son, and that is where it belongs. The point is that Christ has His proper place, where He should be.
JB What is suggested in verse 4, “According to the writing of David king of Israel, and according to the writing of Solomon his son”?
JT That has to be linked up with what we had yesterday, the instruments of David and the words of David. Now we have the writing of David and the writing of Solomon. The writing is something put on record, it is there for everybody to read. It is not simply the commandment of Jehovah but the writing of these men; it is a question of exalted spiritual instruction left on record.
EGMcA How does the last part of verse 15 work in now. “They had not to depart from their service, for their brethren the Levites prepared for them”?
JT Right down to the doorkeepers you mean?
EGMcA The Levites saw to it that they did not have to leave their place. How does that levitical service work now?
JT The thing is to see that you do not let a person into fellowship who is not suitable. It is so ordained that the Levites look after the doorkeepers, that we should not let any extraneous matter in that should not be in, or let any out that might be in. The idea of doorkeeping here is very striking; it says the singers were in their place and the doorkeepers at every gate and “they had not to depart from their service, for their brethren the Levites prepared for them”. I suppose it would be that the ministry helps. Your business is to look after the doors, do not let anyone in who should not be in. What do [p. 77] you think of that yourself?
EGMcA I think that is very fine.
JB Would the singers and the doorkeepers suggest that what is inside and what is outside is in keeping and in order?
JT I think that is good. If you look at chapter 23 of the first book there is some word about that. “And four thousand were doorkeepers; and four thousand praised Jehovah with the instruments which I made, said David, to praise therewith”, meaning that the doorkeepers and the singers were the same in number; in other words it would be the same persons, because if you have not good doorkeepers you will not have good singing or worship to God.
Ques Would chapter 8 of the Acts indicate the proper order in connection with letting anyone into fellowship? Does that give us guidance as to who should take their place amongst us? I refer to Peter and John and Simon Magus, in that setting the doorkeepers are men with spiritual discernment.
JT Peter and John were sent down by the other apostles; it was an apostolic matter. Philip was an evangelist, it says; it shows the correlation between the different services. “some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists”; it is the relation between the evangelists and the apostles in Acts 8. The evangelist’s work is carried on; Philip was very successful, but he allowed Simon Magus into fellowship. Peter discerned that, showing that the different services must work in with one another.
JWD Do you not think the conditions of doorkeeping would be much more stringent in Josiah’s time than in Hezekiah’s?
JT I think so. Josiah’s passover is outstanding. What is stressed in Hezekiah’s time is not the passover — the comparison is not with the passover in Solomon’s time — but with the fourteen days of joyous service, fourteen days of feast. It is a double feast, that is what is outstanding there. In Hezekiah’s [p. 78] day there had been nothing like that since Solomon’s time. But what is stressed here is the passover: there was no passover like this since Samuel, it was like an Exodus passover.
SMcC In going back it alludes to Samuel the prophet. Why that?
JT Well, I suppose there might have been one in his time like it, though we are not told there was. The comparison here goes further back, it covers more ground than Hezekiah’s; but it is a question here of the passover, whereas in Hezekiah’s time it is a question of the duration of the feast fourteen days. That is exactly what Solomon had, fourteen days; there was not anything like it again until Hezekiah; but it would appear that Solomon did not have a passover like Josiah, nor did David have a passover like Josiah, a very striking thing. There was not one like it since Samuel’s time.
Ques Is it getting down to first principles, or getting back to the roots of the matter?
JT I should think he went back to Exodus. The book was there in his hand, he would refer to it and look over it.
CHH Would the fact that the doorkeepers are insisted upon here be because according to chapter 34 evil abounded without measure; man multiplied evil before the Lord? Evil had got in to such an extent that there was great necessity for doorkeepers.
JT It is strikingly so today; evil is all around in such an insidious way, coming in through the schools: our little ones are where the worst kind of evil is. Evil is most insidious at the present time, so that the doorkeeping is very important and correlated with the singing. If the doorkeeping is not good neither is the singing.
TU Is there the blending of the book of Moses with the words of David in relation to the detail of [p. 79] the passover?
JT You must go to Moses for the passover, but there is more attaching to this service; there are other sacrifices as well. They did not have the ark in Exodus when they celebrated the passover. It is a richer state of things in that there has been great addition; that is another thing we should observe, that David said to Solomon, “Thou shalt add to it”. I believe that extended back to the passover in Egypt; there was to be continual addition in a spiritual way.
EGMcA We have referred to the great evil in the days of Amon, Josiah’s father. Is it true that in the passover the prophetic word has more weight than it had in the revival in Hezekiah’s day, that the prophetic word has more weight and place as the evil abounds?
JT It would seem so. There is no discrepancy here but Hezekiah has to ask the Lord to pardon because things are not in order.
AB Would that be seen in that it is the idea of cleansing with Hezekiah; but the thought with Josiah is purging, a more stringent idea, and perhaps connected with the thought of the passover?
JT Yes, and more extensive too, because all the territory of Judah and Israel was affected by the purging. Josiah went out among all the brethren, as it were.
Ques Do you connect the word ‘doorkeeping’ with a letter of commendation? That is, doorkeepers should convey the right information in a letter of commendation.
JT Yes; that is so.
CY The doorkeepers were at every gate, including each local assembly.
JT That is the idea, doorkeepers in every gate.
CHH Would there be any connection with the angels at the gates of the heavenly city?
JT [p. 80] That brings it in. These are the terms laid down in the last chapter of the Bible, that if one washes his robes he may enter: “Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life, and that they should go in by the gates into the city”. No doorkeeper will challenge you if you wash your robes; you have a right to enter in at the gates. He is glad to see you and passes you through.