ETERNITY TO ETERNITY (3)
ETERNITY TO ETERNITY (3)
JT What I believe the Lord would stress in this chapter, is the relation of the apostle to the things of which he wrote; and the depth of spiritual wealth that was there in him as reflecting what is in Christ — “the unsearchable riches of the Christ”. It will require perhaps a little more spirituality to lay hold of this feature; but in relation to the ministry it is quite clear that God intends, whilst presenting these thoughts to us, that there should be an understanding of what spiritual wealth there may be; for unless the ministry is accompanied by spiritual wealth, there is not much to commend it. This epistle contemplates the gospel as that of “the unsearchable riches of the Christ”. The gospel was never intended to be presented in spiritual poverty. So that, whilst the ministry of Peter was in abeyance in the early record in Acts 5 - Acts 9 there was the clear evidence of the body of spiritual wealth that he represented; whilst younger men came forward, such as Stephen, Philip and others, there was extant this spiritual wealth. Of Peter it is said that his ‘shadow’ was a feature. That would point to his spirituality. I think we may see a similar feature here in the apostle alluding to himself as “I Paul”. The name meant much to the Ephesians, and he being a prisoner, enhanced it.
MWB Do you link the idea of spiritual wealth with the condition of soul in the one who ministers?
JT Yes.
MWB So the spiritual conditions were seen in Acts 5 to 9 as a kind of basis for the ministry.
JT I think so, especially as younger men came forward more capable of active service. God would maintain [p. 232] spiritual wealth, even although it may not be in the persons meant to be specially active in the ministry. In connection with Peter’s shadow it was in the minds of the persons who brought out their sick into the streets on beds and couches, that they might come under it, which I think is very remarkable; one’s shadow may be more valuable than one’s preaching at times. Then in Paul’s case napkins taken from his body effected cures, showing what precious substance was there. How valuable the body was as under the influence of the Spirit — the body kept under, so that the Spirit pervaded it and not the motions of the flesh.
AMH Are you connecting the spiritual wealth with the saints as a whole and with the minister in particular?
JT With the saints as a whole; but the person who ministers certainly ought to be marked by it.
AMH Just so. Would the state of the saints as a whole be indicated in the expression “faithful in Christ Jesus?”
JT Exactly, but the apostle wished to lead them forward; he prayed for them in two connections. They needed, not acquired knowledge so much as the “spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowledge of him” (Ephesians 1:17); and then they needed strengthening “in the inner man”.
MWB What would answer to the shadow of Peter now? Would it be our spirit and influence — our bearing?
JT I should think so. We have a reference in the Song of Songs 2:3 that helps: “I sat down under his shadow with great delight”. That would mean that the speaker sat under the influence of Christ, and it would involve a shield from other things, so that she was restful.
WJH I suppose you could not have a shadow without substance somewhere.
JT That is true. In Acts 5 it contemplates spiritual substance, otherwise you could not have had a shadow with healing virtue. Then in Paul’s case the napkins [p. 233] were taken from his body. That, I think, would bring in touches of love; hands using those napkins for cures — would regard with affection the precious body of the apostle.
Rem And that took place at Ephesus, where “God wrought no ordinary miracles”, (Acts 19:11).
Rem The saints at Ephesus would be greatly affected by his saying that he was prisoner on their account.
FHB What do you understand by spiritual substance? Would it be spiritual formation in the person?
JT Yes. Peter and Paul were representative of the ministry in its fullest measure. It marked them both, characterising their bodies. Romans contemplates that the body is to be devoted to God, a “living sacrifice”, and the Spirit in it would be life; so that evidently the Spirit is to influence the body of the christian.
HH All this comes into line with the greatness of Christ, the One who is set forth in this epistle. Spiritual wealth is resident in Him.
JT Yes. As I was remarking, the ministers reflect what is in Christ, the “unsearchable riches of the Christ”. Ephesians contemplates what is unsearchable. It speaks of “the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge”. It is well to accept that we cannot compass these things, but we can know that they are there, and enter into them to such an extent that they are seen in us.
WW “Of his fulness we all have received”, (John 1:16). Does that stand connected with what is on the line of the unsearchableness of the glad tidings of the Christ?
JT Quite so: “Of his fulness we all have received, and grace upon grace”. It is a question of what we have received. What we are considering today is what marks the minister and whether the wealth is there, as a testimony. We can compass it in Paul; he is desirous that the Ephesians might know the extent of his knowledge of [p. 234] the mystery.
WJH The apostle did not desire that the saints should think of him above what they saw him to be.
JT It is remarkable how he brings in ‘Paul’ in the epistles. In one, “Paul the aged”, (Philemon 9) but here it is “I Paul”. Then he is the “prisoner of the Christ Jesus”, meaning that the Lord had taken him aside in this way for certain ministry, that doubtless he could not have rendered otherwise; he is in a peculiar position. That is another thing that we ought to note, that one is not in one’s position by choice. He is the “prisoner of the Christ Jesus”: there might have been some other thought in his mind, but the “prisoner of the Christ Jesus” brought him effectively under the Lord’s hand, where he would render the service that was needed. The epistles from Rome are all suggestive of this; that is to say we get the very best from brethren who are in positions entirely aside from their own wills or predilection. It is the “prisoner of the Christ Jesus”. In the next chapter it is the “prisoner in the Lord” but here he is referring to the Lord’s purpose in imprisoning him.
MWB Would the “prisoner of the Christ Jesus” have the ministry in view, in contrast to the “prisoner in the Lord”?
JT I think so. It was also that the Lord might work out in him to the full the idea of the anointing, and that in it there would be that kind of man. “Christ Jesus” is the anointed Man, and this feature would work out in the prison.
PL Would “his bondman John” (Revelation 1:1) represent the same idea, the best obtainable?
JT Exactly; he was “in the island called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus”. He went there evidently under compulsion; he was a prisoner in Patmos.
JHT Would Philippians 1:12,13 help? “But I would have you know, brethren, that the circumstances in which I am have turned out rather to the furtherance of the glad [p. 235] tidings, so that my bonds have become manifest as being in Christ in all the praetorium and to all others”.
JT That amplifies this. Notice there he is the prisoner “in Christ”, but here he is the “prisoner of the Christ Jesus”. Initially, the Lord imprisoned him, but ultimately he was “in Christ” in the prison. Thus he was dignified in it. They might have thought he was a felon, but he was not that; he was “in Christ”. Then in the next chapter he was the “prisoner in the Lord”, not of the Lord. It is remarkable that knowledge should have come into the palace (praetorium). It shows how if the Lord imprisons us, He will work it that it becomes apparent that we are not there as felons, but in relation to His will.
JJ Even the wicked spirits in Ephesus could say, “Jesus I know, and Paul I am acquainted with”, (Acts 19:15). It was just after the napkins and aprons were brought from his body that that incident occurred.
JT Those seven sons of Sceva were terrible instruments for evil. But it is most touching to think of the apostle’s body: “I bear in my body the brands of the Lord Jesus” (Galatians 6:17). That is a touching thing, and anyone taking off those napkins would see those brands.
ASL How delightful is the way he refers the brands to the Lord Jesus, not to those who inflicted them.
Ques Would they convey an impression of the love of Christ in His death?
JT Yes. In Galatians the apostle made a point of what was there before their eyes in that respect. Jesus Christ was “portrayed”, it says, “crucified among you”, (Galatians 3:1).
ASL The thought in Galatians 6:17 is of the slave branded by his master.
JT The Galatian false teachers would emphasise the circumcision and the marks that it would make in the body, that is, current religion accepted [p. 236] by men.
ASL That is an interesting contrast; circumcision makes its mark, but Paul had the brands of his Master.
JT All the epistles given to us from Rome point to the wealth that marked the apostle in those circumstances. The wealth of the saints is not in their writings but what is in themselves. This works out through their bodies as a testimony.
Ques Is there a reference to all this where it says, “They took therefore the body of Jesus”? (John 19:40).
JT He “was with the rich in his death”, (Isaiah 53:9). Joseph and Nicodemus cared for the Lord’s body in the most touching manner. What they brought bespoke their thought of the body of Jesus. Angels also were attendant, “one at the head and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain” (John 20:12), shewing the respect that heaven had for it; and relatively it is the same with the minister of Christ. I suppose Joseph of Arimathaea and Nicodemus, persons not marked off in the testimony hitherto, represent the work of God for an emergency; the emergency is a test, and the work of God answers to it. That precious body was exposed to wicked handling, but they become the undertakers of it, and Joseph went into Pilate and demanded it, using, I judge, the advantage of his position. He had access through that.
Ques It says that he was a secret disciple; has that any suggestion that he had in secret been appreciating the value of Christ in His body?
JT No doubt; the credit is in the word “disciple”, not in the secrecy of it, but he was a disciple and John’s gospel takes great pains to bring out the work of God. However small the measure, it comes out in an emergency.
JJ Would the incident of the woman who touched the hem of His garment show the substance that was in the Lord?
JT I think that is an analogous passage; the virtue came out of Him, and there, I think, you have the idea of church formation. The virtue that goes out of Him is [p. 237] really the germ of the epistle to the Ephesians, that the body is of Christ.
Rem “Do ye not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you?” (1 Corinthians 6:19).
JT That is the basis of the wealth we are speaking of.
JJ Would you say why this whole subject of the mystery is put in parenthetical form in this epistle?
JT Evidently the apostle did not have it in his mind in the outline he had before him, but his heart became so full that he would have the saints know of his personal wealth in relation to that of which he is speaking.
FHB What does he refer to in speaking of the “promise in Christ Jesus”?
JT I suppose it refers to what God had promised as included in His purpose. Promise is on a lower ground than purpose, and I think it contemplates need or desire, either known to God or to those whose it is.
ASL Would it refer at all to that gospel promise made to Abraham: “in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed” (Genesis 22:18)?
JT I think so; and there was “the promise of life” even before that.
MWB With regard to your remarks, do you think the place Paul takes in this chapter emphasises the greatness of mediatorial service, the fact of it being seen in a vessel?
JT I think the mediatorial feature enters into the ministry, because this epistle contemplates that the preaching is by Christ: “coming, he has preached the glad tidings of peace to you who were afar off, and the glad tidings of peace to those who were nigh” but it was largely through Paul. I believe what is in view is, that the minister is so marked by spiritual wealth, that the unsearchable riches of Christ are brought concretely within the range of his hearers.
EJMcB So that he says, “my tribulations ... which is your glory”. We see thus what the apostle suffered,
[p. 238] and this enhanced the wealth of what was in his mind to bring to the brethren.
JJ Would the same principle be true in Corinthians? He suffered greatly for them.
JT Yes. There was strong feeling against him. It was extraordinary that his ministry evidently was accepted but he himself refused, so that by the Spirit he brings himself before them, more than in any other epistle.
Ques Why was the apostle anxious that the saints should understand his intelligence in the mystery of the Christ?
JT It is advantageous to us all if anyone (whoever or wherever he may be) has special spiritual intelligence. It belongs to all. What we should see is that christianity involves a community, and whatever is there belongs to us all; that, I think, is what is in view. The Ephesians were to know what a wealth of intelligence there was in the minister through whom the light had come to them.
Ques Would the one who is of Christ Jesus, as you suggested, be the one likely to get the spiritual manifestation?
JT I think he would. The apostle must have had wonderful times in the prison. I was, therefore, interested in the address last night, because it brought in an elevated line. The manifestation of divine Persons is what gives colour to christianity. Who can tell what experiences the apostle had in those prison days? In writing this letter — for instance, what light flooded his soul! How near the Lord was to him!
Ques It is encouraging that neither Paul himself nor the saints are losers on account of his prison conditions.
JT His experience must have been most painful, at times, but what seasons of spiritual enlargement he must have had!
Rem We have to accept the prison conditions if such are to work out for the furtherance of [p. 239] the testimony.
JT I think so. In John 14:23 the Lord says, “My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him”. But where is he? His position would be according to divine ruling. That is what you see in the apostle here. His position as a prisoner was in Christ. The Lord knew where he was, and would go to him in those circumstances; and the apostle needed it. When Onesiphorus came to him, how pleased he was! We might think, if Paul were in London today, we would all flock there to see him, but they did not do that in his days; they did not seek him out very much. This is remarkable, but he valued the man who did. He “sought me out very diligently, and found me”, (2 Timothy 1:17). What we should see in the epistles is this wealth of spirituality in the minister. How flooded with light he was, and how in keeping with it!
JJ How completely it sets aside the mere professional side of service. It is the real thing here.
JT Well, the Lord has a word for us in that. There is much light, but spirituality is wanted — the body of spirituality to correspond with it.
Ques Could you define what spiritual wealth is and how it is obtained?
JT I believe it is in getting to the Lord that a question like that is really answered in the soul. He will not leave us in the dark. When He came into the house in Matthew 13 His disciples came to Him; He did not ask them to come. They wanted an exposition of what He had been saying, and He gave them the exposition of the particular parable they mentioned. Then He began to speak to them about wealth; first of all about treasure hidden in the field, and how He sold all that He had to buy the field. The acquirement of wealth involves sacrifice. How much it cost Christ that we might have wealth. It is the principle of giving up to what abides. Then He goes on to speak about the merchant, a person who knew what refined things were, such as a pearl. A pearl is a [p. 240] thing that belongs to refined taste, and the merchant would know its value and would look for goodly ones. He found one pearl of great price, and again He sells all to get it. That is the idea that the Lord would impress upon us, that wealth is acquired at certain cost. Then He asks them, “Have ye understood all these things?” and they said, “Yea Lord”; and He says, “every scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens is like a man that is a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old”, (Matthew 13:51,52). That is the line. He has got the new things and the old things, and he is not selfish about them. He treasures them, but he brings them out and shows them. Now, that is the real test in ministry. What can one bring out and show of new and old things, out of his own treasure? He is a householder, meaning that he cares for things and has them in their right places. That is, I believe, what the Lord would speak to us about.
Rem That involves the work of God and not merely light.
JT It does.
JJ Would the wealth be found in the prayer in this chapter?
JT Yes; the prayer refers to “the riches of his (the Father’s) glory” (verse 16). Earlier the apostle says, “To me, less than the least of all saints, has this grace been given, to announce among the nations the glad tidings of the unsearchable riches of the Christ, and to enlighten all with the knowledge of what is the administration of the mystery hidden throughout the ages in God, who has created all things, in order that now to the principalities and authorities in the heavenlies might be made known through the assembly the all-various wisdom of God, according to the purpose of the ages, which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access in confidence by the faith of him”. You can see the lines on which wealth is acquired; the particular thing he is dealing with, was hid in God.
[p. 241] Ques Would this at all bear on what the apostle says, “I know a man in Christ ... such a one caught up to the third heaven”, (2 Corinthians 12:2)? Would you not see the deep reservoir of wealth there?
JT That would add to Paul’s wealth, but I do not think he refers to it here. It is a question of what is revealed and that means that I may have the ‘new’ things; as also the ‘old’ things, which would mean that I go back to the dispensation in which light began to shine — from Adam to Noah; from Noah to Abraham, and from Abraham to Moses, and from Moses to David; the things brought out in these eras should be acquired.
MWB Is that why the expression is “the administration of the mystery”, referring to what is worked out?
JT That is the thought. Administration is from God’s side. It was committed to Paul. The result is that the principalities and powers in the heavenlies see, in the assembly, what the divine thought is at the present time; they see the “all-various wisdom of God”. There are the “treasures of wisdom and of knowledge” (Colossians 2:3) in the mystery, but here it is the “all-various wisdom of God” in the assembly — the highest conception of wisdom for heavenly intelligences to see worked out; and this in such as ourselves! It goes beyond even Proverbs 8 and 9. What a thought it is for us! And so the apostle’s prayer in this chapter has reference to the inner man; we need power inwardly to apprehend the marvellous things presented.
HH Why do you say it goes beyond Proverbs 8 and 9?
JT Because it is “all-various”. You do not get this in the creation of the material worlds.
ASL Is it the idea of Joseph’s coat of many colours? But what about that in connection with the actual state of the church down here? Does that affect the view that the principalities have?
JT Of course it does. What exists today must becloud the “all-various wisdom of God”. This is a humbling consideration.
[p. 242] Ques What is the distinction between the thought of the body and the assembly in this chapter?
JT Whilst formed of persons called out, the assembly contemplates intelligence. “I speak as to intelligent persons” (1 Corinthians 10:15), that is, we are formed in the knowledge of God. This is furthered by the “spirit of wisdom and revelation”. Therefore, what is done in our ‘care meetings’ and ‘assembly meetings’, as we speak of them, is intended for the angels to see; it is the working of love, but love acting wisely. Love, is so to speak, the background of wisdom; wisdom is its handmaid. So the existence of love amongst us will lead to things being done wisely. Love expresses itself in the wisdom of its ways.
MWB Do you think there is a reference here to the expression in chapter 1:8, “which he has caused to abound towards us in all wisdom and intelligence”?
JT I should say so. What a thing the assembly is!
MWB All is in view of there being a vessel here in which there is an answer to God, abounding to us in those remarkable attributes.
JT Exactly; so you can see that love must be the great feature in the assembly, and wisdom is the way it acts. 1 Corinthians 13 helps to this as showing how love acts. It is not wisdom there. What is done is wisdom, but it is love’s actions. Wise actions are love’s actions; it is the same with God. What He does is in wisdom because of His love.
AJG Does this thought of the “all-various wisdom of God” emphasise the necessity for the variety of life?
JT I think it does. Life is a necessary feature, but I think love is the greatest expression of life.
Rem In Galatians 5:13 it says, “By love serve one another”.
JJ Would you bring Psalm 139:16 into this “all-various wisdom of God”? “In thy book all my members were written; during many days were they fashioned, when as yet there was none of them”.
JT Quite so; they were “curiously wrought in the lower parts of the earth”. That is formation, but this is more than that. It is not divine workmanship exactly in this chapter; what the apostle is alluding to here, is what we do; that God has brought about such intelligence in men here in the assembly, that His “all-various wisdom” is wrought out in them.
WJH You were going to contrast the wisdom of God in creation with the “all-various wisdom of God” here.
JT In creation the material was inanimate, there was no love. It is a question of the material that God was handling, and of course there was wonderful skill in the creation, but the material did not lend itself to what God is Himself. “The invisible things of him are perceived, being apprehended by the mind through the things that are made, both his eternal power and divinity” (Romans 1:20), but that is not His love. The material did not lend itself to that; but when one divine Person became a Man, then you have love acting wisely. Every thing that the Lord did and said was in wisdom; what He said, and what He did not say, was in wisdom.
The assembly is of Christ: “Of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who has been made to us wisdom ..”. (1 Corinthians 1:30); that is objective. We learn it in Him, so that the gospels are the great lesson book for us as we begin to think of acting in wisdom; it is how He acted. The Holy Spirit sent from heaven is from Jesus up there, so that the body is formed; but the idea of the assembly involves persons — not simply an organism — and persons formed in divine intelligence, so that they know what to do.
ASL It is only in Ephesians that the church is viewed as in the heavenlies: “In order that now to the principalities and authorities in the heavenlies might be made known through the assembly the all-various wisdom of God”.
JT We are raised up together and made to sit down together “in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus”. The angels [p. 244] bow to that; and they would look for the results; because the idea is the anointing, the status we have there; so that, as down here, the angels recognise the dignity of the persons forming the assembly.
ASL The church in the heavenlies, is the church really at the full height of God’s thought for it, and that cannot be interfered with.
JT I think, as presented in Ephesians, it is to bring out the dignity of the anointing as it is up there. We are raised up and seated in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus. It is dignity we have up there; it is dignity in the supreme place, which angels would understand, and they could follow the working out of the thing on earth in such persons.
CCE What is the connection with “God, who has created all things”? What is the particular reason of that being brought in here?
JT I think in connection with what we are dealing with, the question of wisdom; because the wisdom seen in all God’s operations is cumulative. The physical creation is wonderful, a thing to be apprehended by faith, not by the telescope. “By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by the word of God”, (Hebrews 11:3). That means that His mind was already coming out, and involved wisdom; Proverbs deals with that. Wisdom was His nursling, showing that wisdom was already operating. We should not overlook the wonderful skill seen in creation; in fact Corinthians says that nature teaches us.
JJ Would it not show too that all created things have a moral import behind them?
JT “The invisible things of him are perceived, being apprehended by the mind through the things that are made” (Romans 1:20); that supposes intelligence, hence, it is “by faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by the word of God”. That is a question for our minds, not for our affections. I do not think the creation is an [p. 245] object for my affections, but for my mind. It is a wonderful lesson book for the mind.
HH Do you think you have Christ prospectively in Proverbs 8:22, where it says, “Jehovah possessed me”?
JT We ought not to be too pronounced in speaking of that as Christ. It is a reference to Christ, but you cannot say it is He in an absolute way; wisdom is a quality.
ASL It speaks of wisdom being “brought forth” there.
JT I think it is to emphasise what we are speaking of: the “all-various wisdom of God” — how important it is. Of course, its expression is in Christ, but it is not well to go beyond that, that it was necessary in the creation. Of course, we know from the New Testament that the creation was by Christ, not only as an instrument, but in His own power (John 1:3). In Colossians 1:16 the preposition involves His own power, but Proverbs is dealing with wisdom as a leading feature that comes out in the creation. It was a quality operating in material things, but now it has taken form in incarnation, in Christ. But as here He was not dealing with material things but moral things — with persons, not with particles. Wisdom created a thing out of nothing really. What wisdom was required to do that, and to poise the universe and set it as it is before our eyes! But Romans says that the mind apprehends behind that, the “invisible things of him”, so that Proverbs has to be read in that connection. Of course in Proverbs wisdom also deals with moral things. Solomon being peculiarly possessed with it, and so a type of Christ, in the main applies wisdom to human circumstances.
ASL “Thou shalt see me from behind”, He said to Moses, (Exodus 33:23).
CCE When it says in Proverbs 8, “When he prepared the heavens I was there”, the He was really Christ.
JT It was He who actually did it.
CCE Does that give [p. 246] the understanding?
JT I think it does. The Person that prepared the heavens was Christ, and wisdom was there.
GWW Therefore, in reading Proverbs you have to bear in mind that the Jehovah mentioned there was the Jesus of the New Testament. The passage cannot be understood unless that is borne in mind. That puts wisdom in its right and proper place before the soul.
JT I think it does. It is Christ in a sense, who is said to be the wisdom of God and power of God; it is really a quality or attribute. When it says, “wisdom hath built her house” (Proverbs 9:1), you get beyond the physical creation. It points on to the church.
WC Would you say a word as to how wisdom came out in the Lord Himself? It speaks of Him being “filled with wisdom” and then He “advanced in wisdom and stature”, (Luke 2:40,52).
JT I suppose it was the divine thought that wisdom should show itself in the way He acted in every stage of His life here; so that as born He is cast upon God, and then at the age of twelve years He is in the temple in the midst of the doctors hearing and asking them questions. That was a very wise way to act, and an example for young persons — hearing and asking; and they were astonished at His understanding and answers. Then He goes down and is subject to His parents, and we do not hear of Him again until He is thirty years of age; and, according to Luke, He is apparently the last to be baptised of John, and when He was baptised, He was praying. That is the attitude; and then He is anointed, the Holy Spirit comes upon Him. So that, following up His ministry (it would be impossible to go over the details) wisdom was seen in every word, every breath, every movement showing who He was, but everything was done rightly. You could not conceive of one thing but as rightly done.
WC Would that bring us to the “all-various wisdom of God” [p. 247] in the assembly?
JT There is nothing in the assembly that does not come out of Christ.
Ques If the assembly is thus the vessel of that wisdom and a lesson book for angels, should it not add dignity to our walk here?
JT It should, and that is the reason why the apostle prays: “For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named, in order that he may give you according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man”. I think we come here to the great burden that rested on the apostle in regard to the saints, our being strengthened in “the inner man”. It is a spiritual thing: “that ye may be fully able to apprehend”, not exactly in intelligence as in chapter 1 but in inward power. This prayer is that the power of the Father’s Spirit should work in us, so that we should be fully able to take in divine things — viewed here in their full greatness. It is a question of ability inwardly.
HH The power which wrought for us in the end of chapter 1 now works in us; the power “which he wrought in the Christ” and which also set us in the heavenlies, is now working in us.
JT That is working in us to bring about ability to take in divine things. There is “breadth and length and depth and height”; so that we are to be able to stand, as it were, in the very midst of the divine sphere of operations and apprehend it.
JJ What is the difference between the two prayers?
JT Well, the first refers to the “eyes of your heart”; it is more the intelligence, the “spirit of wisdom and revelation”. This is but little understood, but what we had here last night as to divine appearings ought to help us as to it. You have the principle in Peter the prototype of christians in relation to the church: “flesh and blood has not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens”, (Matthew 16:17). Of course in his case it was [p. 248] special, but the principle is found in this epistle, the “spirit of wisdom and revelation”; it comes from God; it comes by prayer. It is not a question of ministry, but of prayer; it is directly from God. So, here, the strengthening of the inner man comes by prayer, from the Father.
COB Does the expression “the inner man” indicate formation in the saints?
JT I think it does. It is not what people see, but what relates to God, though it has an effect outwardly, of course.
Ques Does this prayer bring in the thought of the work of God as a complete answer to His counsels?
JT Well, I think it does, giving ability to take in divine things: “that ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height”. The “inner man” includes the automatic organs of the man, so that he is able, as such, to stand in the midst of the great divine sphere and apprehend it. I do not believe one could do this mentally; it is a question of ability in the inner man, all the automatic organs being in action.
GWW What do you mean by the automatic organs?
JT They are alluded to in Scripture, the organs that you cannot adjust or affect by the action of your mind. The Spirit operates through these organs, as well as the mind. They are referred to in the word ‘reins’ in the Psalms and other scriptures.
The Lord alludes to them in John 4. Water refers to that part of the body more than breath. Breath is for the lungs. The believer becomes alive, not only mentally, but in all his being. He is living and energetic inwardly.
Ques Is this what is referred to in Leviticus?
JT I think so; the inward parts are laid out before God on the altar.
Ques What about the “riches of his glory”?
JT In chapter 1, He is the “Father of glory”; He is the source of it, but here it is the “riches of his glory”.
The riches of the Father’s glory is a very wonderful thought. “The God of glory” appeared to Abraham, and I suppose that enters into the working out of His thoughts; now we have the glory itself; so that the assembly according to this chapter, becomes the residence of it: “To him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages”. That is what the apostle has in view, and I think one of the most beautiful touches in the chapter is the note of worship from him here. He says, “But to him that is able to do far exceedingly above all which we ask or think, according to the power which works in us, to him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages. Amen”. That is the end of the parenthesis, including almost the whole chapter; and what a parenthesis it is! What wealth is in it, ending with this note of worship!
Ques Would you say a word as to the measurements? There are four here; in the heavenly city there are only three.
JT The fourth dimension is remarkable. I do not know much about dimensions, but “the depth” seems to bring in the death of Christ. I suppose in ordinary things there are only three dimensions, but the death of Christ, I think, brings in the fourth, the depth to which He went.
God is the “God of measure” (2 Corinthians 10:13), and it must enter into creation, but I think the fourth dimension alludes to the love that led Christ down into the depths.
MWB What do you understand by the expression here, “that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God”?
JT Well, according to what we had yesterday, that is eternity. That is what I understand. We are filled into what is infinitely beyond us — not lost in it; I am intelligently in it. It is not in God exactly, but to “the fulness”, which would mean the shining out of Himself in Christ.