2 SAMUEL FIVE
2 SAMUEL FIVE
JT We finished last week with the stress laid on David’s reigning (verses 4, 5), having in the past three or four weeks been occupied with chapters 2 to 4 where there is much party feeling. The Holy Spirit now leaves us restfully accepting the reign of David. Peace and freedom exist, so that it is stated four times in verses 4 and 5 that David reigned. “David was thirty years old when he began to reign; he reigned forty years. In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months; and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty-three years over all Israel and Judah”. The word reign always peculiarly suggests Christ to us. Many were electing themselves outside the sphere of that reign in the earlier chapters, but now they are all in it. The Lord would have us there, subject to Him.
Rem So all being subject, they can move now to a further position.
JT That is right. David’s way has become universal, “all Israel and Judah”, and we now have “the king and his men”.
Ques Why are you stressing the idea that he reigned?
JT It is over against the squabbles in the earlier chapters. David speaks himself later of “the clear shining after rain”;(2 Samuel 23:4) that is the sort of thing you get here, a clear sky. The Spirit of God seems to rest in that in these two verses, and then there is the thought of “the king and his men”.
Ques Would it be right to connect this passage with the Lord’s going to Jerusalem in [p. 24] Matthew 21?
JT There certainly is a parallel; as He approached Jerusalem Matthew says “the whole city was moved”, Matthew 21:10. But then the question arises as to the taking of Jerusalem, whether this particular entry corresponds to David’s capture of Jerusalem. We know the Lord was put to death.
Rem I was thinking that there were those in sympathy with this triumphal entry who might suggest these men associated with David.
JT In the gospel of Matthew the initial features of Christianity are represented in children. The Lord is seen as a little Child, and Satan would get rid of the children in Matthew. The little Child went to Egypt and came back a Son. Then the Lord calls a little child to him and sets it in the midst, as if He had a place in that child’s heart. He had already said to the Father, “thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to babes”, Luke 10:21. These remarks lead on to your suggestion, but in chapter 21 instead of the leaders in Jerusalem accepting the Lord, it is “the children crying in the temple and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David”, Matthew 21:15. Then the Lord justifies their action as if they are the ones; it is the infantile or child condition leading up to, “out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise”, Matthew 21:16. The blind and the lame came to Him in the temple and He healed them. The children seem to be the initial idea in Matthew as leading up to what we have in our chapter. If you want to get men you must have children. He finds an entry in Jerusalem, but in the children. Matthew would say, “Except ye ... become as little children”;(Matthew 18:3) thus the Lord finds an entry into our hearts. The main point here in Samuel is Christ finding an entry into the hearts of His own.
Rem Reigning is not considered finality. “He must reign until he put all enemies under his feet”, 1 Corinthians 15:25. It is a means to an [p. 25] end.
JT Quite so.
Ques Is there a difference between rule and reign?
JT A ruler might be a person who did not reign. Reigning involves royalty. Of course royalty is fast disappearing today but rule is not. I think the word reign here four times is to call attention to the kind of person that he was. He was a king, not simply a ruler; a deputy might rule.
Ques Does the reigning of David suggest the supremacy of the person? He is supreme in every heart; you might say it is David’s chapter.
JT Yes, as over against the others, Abner and Joab, who show a party spirit. It is now the clear shining after rain.
Ques Is that why David does not ask if he should go to Jerusalem? Of Hebron he says, “Shall I go up?” (2 Samuel 2:1).
JT He had asked about Hebron and God directed him to go up. I suppose here the thought is that we have reached the realm of spirituality, it is what David is doing himself now. He is a subject man earlier; of course he is still a subject man, but now he is anointed the second time. He is in supremacy.
Rem Will you say something as to how Jerusalem is viewed here?
JT It is finality, I think.
Ques Is Jerusalem especially in the mind of God from this point of view? In Joshua it was a city like other cities.
JT It seems to come into prominence in Joshua and Judges. In Judges they brought Adoni-Bezek to Jerusalem and he died there. They did not put him to death; Judges 1:7. It represents a spiritual realm. Adoni-Bezek was a ruthless sort of man but he becomes amenable to the truth and is brought into that spiritual realm. It is good to get refractory brethren into the spiritual realm. Judges gives Jerusalem prominence in that way.
[p. 26] Rem It was in the mind of God evidently in figure in Salem. According to Paul it is “Jerusalem above which is our mother”, Galatians 4:26. This really represents that idea.
JT Quite so. It is involved, I think, in Melchisedek.
Rem You referred to it last week — the city of the great king.
JT It has a great place. God Himself calls it that and it helps us here; it is in the mind of God and never will be out of it, it goes right into eternity.
Ques When David acts on his own initiative here, is he reaching a state that might be regarded as spiritual mindedness?
JT It is a question of the point reached, where David reigns; it is not simply that Abner or others have brought the kingdom back to him; it is given to him according to divine purpose. All the people are with him. It seems to be a point reached experimentally in a spiritual sense. We have come into the realm of finality and know what to do.
Ques Is Jerusalem here typical of the assembly?
JT Ziklag, Hebron and Jerusalem are the three points. Ziklag is recovery, Hebron is Colossians, and Jerusalem is Ephesians. David as a heavenly man is reigning, he knows what to do now. From Hebron you know what to do, you set your mind on things above and you travel in that direction. For the Lord it was a terrible thing to contemplate when they talked about His decease which He should accomplish at Jerusalem. How different His peaceful entrance into Jerusalem later on!
Rem There were opposing elements here.
JT The Jebusites being in evidence suggests to us that we have spiritual wickedness in high places. There is no opposition at Hebron, it had been taken by Caleb before. Jerusalem is still the heavenly side and the last to be taken. In Luke 10 the seventy [p. 27] returned with joy saying that even the demons were subject to them, and the Lord immediately says, “I beheld Satan as lightning falling out of heaven”, Luke 10:18. It is the final thought here, I think, spiritual wickedness in high places. It really refers to the saints viewed as the assembly, the heavenly Jerusalem, and the Lord finding an entrance into our hearts. The watercourse would mean, I think, that it is correspondence. He is aiming at, those who have the Spirit. Joab is not mentioned here, it is too elevated a thought, it is David only here, no deputy; it is the Lord seeking today to get into the hearts of His own in relation to heaven.
Rem He is “carried up into heaven”, (Luke 24:51) the way is open for Him to take His place.
JT There is no opposition.
Ques Would you say something about the men?
JT It is the thought of the king and his men; these are the ones to occupy Jerusalem; there is no longer a babe condition. Matthew contemplates a babe condition, but he also contemplates the full assembly condition.
Ques What is the link with David taking the head of Goliath to Jerusalem?
JT That is another point of help before we come to this to show how the man of God is gradually taking form as to Jerusalem; it runs right down from Melchisedec, from the one who was “without father, without mother”, (Hebrews 7:3) “King of righteousness ... King of Salem, which is King of peace”, Hebrews 7:2. Of course, that is part of the meaning of Jerusalem, and undoubtedly it is an allusion to Jerusalem. The head of Goliath is taken there, the final thought is being reached. Now David is going there literally and he has men, and so he is the great king.
Ques Is the order: children in Matthew, young men in Mark and men in John?
JT Yes, that is well linked together. I believe [p. 28] John is more in view here than any of the other evangelists because David is building inward. It is pointed out here that David dwelt in the stronghold. This word ‘Millo’ is a striking sort of word: it is written in the original with the article. We might say, “The assembly”, something that cannot be overcome, and it is built inward from that. The gates of hades shall not prevail against it. I think it has John’s ministry in mind.
Colossians is Hebron as to doctrine; it means there had been a considerable work of God in the saints at Colosse but they were stopped, so that they are very near and yet very far. Whether they go on or stop now hinges on whether the epistle will clear the ground.
Ques Is manhood sufficient to meet the wicked spirits in heavenly places?
JT David’s men are military men. I believe Colossians is intended to effect that kind of manhood in us. Epaphras is the typical man in Colossians, he combated earnestly in prayer. A critical point had been reached, they were in danger of being turned aside; now will the prayers of this praying brother and of Paul prevail that they might enter into the purpose of God and the mystery? Will the letter clear away the difficulty? I believe that is the question in the letter, and one would believe they did go forward. What we are saying now is how it affects oneself. And so with the question of distance between Hebron and Jerusalem; it is very near and yet very far. As a matter of fact geographically and topographically Hebron was somewhat higher than Jerusalem. It is a remarkable thing that this is so. But then in spite of that there is danger of hindrance, David was kept out of Jerusalem seven and a half years because of want of unity. It had to be, not simply Judah but all the tribes to bring him in.
Ques Would it be right to say that you get the thought of the king and his men in those who were [p. 29] in evidence during the forty days after the Lord’s resurrection; going on to Pentecost and then on to Paul’s ministry?
JT Yes, the Lord certainly had men at Pentecost; but Jerusalem was not reached until Paul came along.
Rem There were many obstacles in the Acts to keep the men from entering into it.
Ques How far does John 12 go in relation to John 20?
JT I think John 12 is perhaps the Hebron position; there is nothing in the way of opposition there save Judas’ attack on Mary, otherwise the position is clear. There is nothing to hinder the saints from being in the heavenly point of view. It seems as if they are in the Lord’s mind in this way, and from chapter 13 onward they are to be included in the assembly; it is the heavenly position. Bethany was the link, Bethany and the mount of Olives. Bethany would be the Jewish remnant and the mount of Olives was the link with heaven; these two things have to coalesce in time with the Jew.
Ques Why is there so much emphasis on the blind and lame?
JT To-day it would mean persons of that type who ought to have light and are refusing it, and they are lame consequently.
Rem It is not only that the blind and lame need to come into blessing but they are prepared to keep David out.
JT It is a terrible reproach spiritually. “The inhabitants of the land ... spoke to David, saying, Thou shall not come in hither, but the blind and the lame will drive thee back”. It seems to be a reproach to David by the inhabitants. It is modernism or some such thing that the enemy is using against Christ at the present time.
[p. 30] Rem I suppose they thought the thing impregnable, really, a kind of falsity of self-assurance.
JT They did not consider themselves blind and lame. The Lord says in John 9, “now ye say, We see, your sin remains”, John 9:41. The Pharisees did not think they were blind.
Rem These people had not profited by the prophetic word.
JT You mean as applying the thought of lame and blind to present conditions today; I think it might be applied in that way. They are not assuming to be blind and lame themselves, they are Jebusites, occupying this great stronghold.
Rem Blindness and lameness is generally of that nature, it speaks out and stands in opposition to what is of God, and is sure of its ground.
JT The Jebusites themselves talk about the blind and lame as if the poorest amongst them could be with David. It is a wretched thought hurled against the position today. What do such people think of our meetings, what do they think of us? It is a question of testimony all these years of rejection. David had Jerusalem in his mind and now he is realising the thing. We have the same kind of opposition today, they just ridicule the whole position that the Lord has brought to light.
Rem The Lord has a right to say who is to come into the house, it is an exclusive principle.
JT I think it is the principle now that people should see clearly and not be lame.
Ques In Nehemiah there is a reference to dwelling in Jerusalem: “and the rest of the people cast lots, to bring one of ten to dwell in Jerusalem”, Nehemiah 11:1. Would that suggest how difficult it is to occupy Jerusalem territorially in these remnant days?
JT I think the allusion would be to the spiritual weakness of the moment, and of course it is educational for us. Why should not Jerusalem be occupied?
[p. 31] Why should I not love the house of Jehovah? “Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem”, Psalm 122:2. Faith lays hold of that. In Nehemiah’s time they would rather dwell in the country. I think the point for us here tonight is, Has David a place in our hearts? The idea is to get up to the watercourse, to get at the spiritual. To-day it is not so much evangelisation as in the beginning, it is to get at the people of God, to get them into the spiritual realm. A watercourse is a place of flowing water. David renders the same word ‘cataract’ in Psalm 42:7. The point he makes is to get to the watercourse, to that side of the brethren. It is no question of religious feeling and that sort of thing, but of the spiritual side of the brethren if you are to make anything out of them.
Rem Please say a little more about Jerusalem. It says he went up to Jerusalem, but it does not say he took Jerusalem, he took the stronghold of Zion.
JT That is the thing to get at. What are these words used for? At the present time the Lord is consolidating the truth, not simply getting converts. He has laid hold of the saints through ministry in the power of the Spirit in relation to the heavenly side of the truth, and that is the stronghold. When an attack comes up in this chapter David goes down to the stronghold. The Lord is putting the truth into our souls in such a way that we stand! Jerusalem is the main thought, but of the stronghold of Zion it is said, “So David dwelt in the stronghold, and called it the city of David. And David built round about from the Millo and inward”, Verse 9.
Rem You were speaking of Epaphras and of the apostle agonising in prayer, and that what was necessary was co-ordination among the saints; I wondered if there is just that need now, or rather that process going on.
JT Yes, it is consolidating the position, you are holding the position at all costs. I think that is [p. 32] what is meant here by the word ‘stronghold’. “David dwelt in the stronghold”, as much as to say, This is my place. It was not Jerusalem, but the city of David; not so extensive as Jerusalem, but a stronghold where the Lord has something, and which He will hold at all costs.
Rem Psalm 48 would correspond.
JT Yes, the psalm corresponds very well because it is a question of support inward. David built round about; now it is not the stronghold, it is inward from the Millo — a definite thing — “round about from the Millo and inward”. That is, if you get the brethren holding together the general principles of the truth, the Lord says, Now I can move on and work inward in the service of God. Where we are holding together in unity any divine principle the Lord has a stronghold and He builds from that.
Ques Does Matthew 16 show that the inward side is there? A revelation is something that cannot be overthrown, but the exterior in Peter shows weakness. Peter takes the Lord aside to advise Him.
JT That is the sort of thing that we are working against. This natural feeling, Be good to thyself, would deflect us from the full thought of self-judgment.
Ques Is not the man in John 9 in an impregnable position? He says, No matter what they say, I must stand my ground. The parents say, He is of age, ask him; and all his replies to the questionings show that the position is held. Is he not a counterpart of Peter in that way as showing the work of God?
JT Quite so; he did not get help from anybody, he was a man that could stand. He is a good illustration of what we are speaking about.
Rem The man in John 9 corresponds in being marked by smiting the Jebusites.
Rem It says, “that the works of God might be manifested in him”, John 9:3. We want to see the works [p. 33] manifested, not only there in an abstract way or hidden way.
JT The blind man smote them; the Pharisees and Jews were the Jebusites. All they could do was what they did to Stephen; they cast him out. Stephen went up to heaven, but the Lord found the man in John 9. The Lord says, I can build now with a man like that. He is ready for the unfolding of who the Son of God is. I think that is the idea in the Lord revealing Himself as the Son of God; the word is that David built round about from the Millo and inward. It is the enemy’s aim to get at the spiritual side of the brethren, the watercourse; and so we have the building inward.
Ques Do we observe this consolidation at the present time or are you speaking abstractly?
JT I think God has been working on these lines for a long time. If the brethren can be encouraged to move together in a spiritual way in connection with the heavenly side of the truth — the watercourse being the channel in which the Spirit works — then the Lord can operate. He has something in His mind to do for God.
Rem The man healed in John 5 did not answer to this.
JT The Lord did not have confidence in the man in John 5. He belonged to a state of things that was affected by angelic intervention; he did not seem to be ready for the Lord, he was not material for any spiritual structure. In fact he brought on persecution. The Lord found him as He did the man in chapter 9, but He could not do anything with him; the man went off immediately and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him. The Lord has to work alone as it were in John 5; He says the most wonderful things in that chapter about Himself, whereas in chapter 9 He has material to work on and hence He goes on to speak in chapter 10 of the flock. There is [p. 34] a definite result reached in chapter 9, but not in chapter 5. That is the point now, what has the Lord got to work on? First He gets the saints all together, holding right things, then He builds round about from the Millo and inward; He has got some means of doing that now. There is a point from which He can operate inwardly, and what that involves is the service of God. “Let my son go that he may serve me”, Exodus 4:23. That is the main thing from Exodus onward. It says, “the king and his men went to Jerusalem against the Jebusites, the inhabitants of the land”. They are characteristically Canaanites, inhabitants of the land but they are dwelling in this place, meaning that strictly they belong to the nations that God had said should be exterminated. The heavenly side is the most difficult to get at. “Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed?” (Acts 19:2) was asked of the Ephesians. To reach the heavenly side you must get at the saints through the Holy Spirit; the watercourse is the place where you feel secure.
Ques Building inward is that in relation to ourselves?
JT Inward would be Godward; taken up in the light of the tabernacle it would mean the inner place. It is what is Godward, what God began with in Exodus, “Let my son go that he may serve me” (Exodus 4:23).
The tabernacle was set up, and anyone drawing near would have that in mind, what is Godward.
Ques In the epistle to the Corinthians the apostle refers to what is inward. All the thoughts of divine Persons in connection with themselves and with the evil, etc., had been dealt with, and the apostle says, “I will come to ... revelations”, 2 Corinthians 12:1. The inward is just touched on. Do you feel that the inside position is the eternal one, whereas the stronghold position is provisional?
JT Where the enemy can attack.
Rem When you speak about what is inward, it [p. 35] is really the sphere that was in the tabernacle system, though peculiarly restricted.
JT It was there. When anyone came with an offering that was in mind. The priest could go near. When you come to John 17 it is all inward, and later the Lord says, “I ascend to my Father and your Father”, John 20:17. We are free of the enemy’s attack and now the Lord, as Minister of the sanctuary, would take us in. It is all inward.
Ques Would the Millo be somewhat like John 20 when the doors were shut, so that the inward thing could go on?
JT The doors being shut you have all the Jewish element shut out and you can go on.
Rem In John 20 you get the ministry carried on relative to the Lord’s ascension.
JT They were making progress in John 20. When the Lord came in where the meeting was convened there was nothing to complain of; the doors were shut, they had seen to that.
Rem It is difficult to keep things maintained on that heavenly level.
JT I think the greatest test in speaking to God is whether you speak to Him historically or whether you speak to Him about what He is.
Rem You reach sonship through priestly conditions and this inward matter is certainly a great thing if we are going to reach sonship.
JT It is the son really who serves.