ESTABLISHMENT

Romans 16: 25–27; 1 Corinthians 15: 24–28

DBR I was impressed in our earlier occasion, especially towards the end of the meeting, as to the established order of things that will exist eternally. It speaks in 1 Corinthians 15 of the Son giving up the kingdom to Him who is God and Father, that God may be all in all. It is the idea of the kingdom, not that the kingdom in eternity will exactly be like the kingdom now, but nevertheless it suggests that there will remain an established order of things perfectly suited to God Himself. I thought we might consider these verses we have read in Romans 16 as to our own establishment. There are three things that come in there; to be established according to my glad tidings, is the first one; the preaching of Jesus Christ, that would be the second matter; and thirdly it is according to the revelation of the mystery. I wondered if we could enquire into these matters together and get gain from them, that we ourselves might become more firmly established in relation to the things of God.

SMcL I am sure it will be very profitable to look at that. It is the preaching of Jesus Christ; He is the one by whom all these things have been accomplished.

DBR Yes, and He is the same “yesterday, and today, and to the ages to come”, Hebrews 13: 8. This matter as to Paul’s glad tidings involves Christ where He is. I would value what the brethren can say about it.

GBG Can you say something as to how we are established by divine Persons, as being established by God? How does that come about?

DBR Well it says, “him that is able to establish you”. I think a great deal depends on our links with divine Persons. Possibly the greatest matter that is involved in our personal progress and establishment, is the maintenance and development of our links with God, do you think?

GBG I think so, and do you think there is a conviction that comes into our souls and hearts and minds as the truth of these things lays hold of us? Then you are not moved away from it. We need conviction, do we not?

DBR Yes we do, we need to be convicted persons, and be assured as to matters. It is “to him that is able to establish you”.

CKR There is the revelation of the mystery, there is the revelation of Jesus Christ, and that adds a character to the preaching in order that souls would become established upon a sure foundation, which is unshakable from the divine side and from our side in responsibility.

DBR I think that is helpful; “according to my glad tidings”. I suppose the heavenly touch would always be in Paul’s glad tidings, but then we never forget the preaching of Jesus Christ. One who, here as a Man, ever acted on the ground of the will of God, and secured things for God on that ground, and then He secures us on the same ground, do you think?

CKR There is the importance of being established, but the Roman epistle does not finish until you are established and you are ready to receive the truth of the mystery, and all that opens out which is no doubt what you have in mind. So you have gone through all the teaching of Romans, not just objectively, but subjectively would you say?

DBR I think that is good and as our brother says, we need to be brought to conviction about things; conviction as to the truth, conviction as to the glad tidings, conviction as to the truth of where Christ is. Because the only Christ that exists now is the Christ of Christianity; that is Paul’s glad tidings, is it not?

DW The beginning of John’s gospel says, “but as many as received him, to them gave he the right to be children of God” (John 1: 12), would that be part of that, do you think?

DBR Yes I think it is, that is how we come into the divine family, is it not? We do not come in because of anything that is in us naturally, we come in because of the fact that we have received Him. That is very important to receive Christ, “to them gave he the right to be children of God”; that is there is something in the Christian that is derived from God Himself. The knowledge of that, and coming to that in our souls, would also add a touch of stability to us. When you look around here today there is a generation that is according to God, young and old involved in it.

APG Paul says in the second epistle to the Corinthians that “Now he that establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, is God”, 2 Corinthians 1: 21. It goes on to say “who also has sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts”. Do you think the gift of the Spirit helps us in being established?

DBR Yes, the Holy Spirit comes into it, because you find your human mind is very variable. Mr. James Taylor says somewhere that the human mind is the wildest thing in the creation of God (Vol. 13, p.172). It runs all over the place. We know that only too well, but it is a fine thing to come to it, that there is a power and there is a Person in the Holy Spirit, to help us into these things.

APG And then Paul speaks of the Son of God whom we preach, (2 Corinthians 1: 19); that would be included in his glad tidings, would it? Paul preached that He is the Son of God.

DBR Yes that is good. It is not only a gospel that meets need, but it is a gospel that brings you into relationship with God.

APG Yes, and the Son of God is the object of His delight, and we are brought into have a part with Him in that, do you think?

DBR That is good.

SMcL Where you have read, Paul says as to God, “to him that is able to establish you” because he knew He was able. Paul spoke of Him as one in whom he had believed. I was thinking of Peter’s way of putting it; “But the God of all grace who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ Jesus, when ye have suffered for a little while, himself shall make perfect, stablish, strengthen, ground: to him be the glory and the might for the ages of ages”, 1 Peter 5: 10, 11. It says He will do it.

DBR Yes that is good, it is not only “able” but he will do it. that is fine. That word is good, “stablish” you.

RB In the reference that has been made to second Corinthians, it refers to the Lord Jesus there as “in him is the yea, and in him the amen”, 2 Corinthians 1: 20. Is that important in being established, we see what Christ is personally and what God has done by Him and through Him?

DBR Yes that is good Rodney. What is the “yea” and what is the “amen”?

RB Well the promises of God are in Him and He is the embodiment of them all, is He not? And then the end of that verse is “for glory to God by us”, so that having been established there is to be some outflow from us, is there?

DBR That is very good, the “yea” and the “amen” brings in the idea of certainty and finality. The “yea”, that is certainty, there is no doubt about it; our brother said you carry the conviction of these things in your soul. It is a great thing to be a convicted Christian and an assured Christian, I think that is the “yea”, and the “amen”; what do you think?

RB I think what you have said is very important. It is fine for us to know the terms of the truth and to be familiar with the truth, but what has been said about conviction is essential. If we are to be established it must be on that ground.

DBR Exactly, and our links with divine Persons are so important. The older you get the more you see it, the more we need it, “to him that is able”. What do you say about that?

CKR I think faith and the gift of the Spirit brings in settled assurance in what God can do in me, and what God can do in every believer. As we give way to the great teaching of this epistle for instance, it must be necessary to follow on from what you are saying, and this is the conclusion of it. And as we have been taught, a good Roman can go anywhere, and so we go on from there, we are not wayward, we are not doubting or uncertain. God has wrought in the soul these great truths.

DBR That is good, it is a structural epistle. As I understand it there are two structural epistles, Romans and Ephesians. How necessary it is to take these steps that Romans teaches us. We cannot go through them all today, but how necessary it is to take the way of Romans, and to reach through to the ground of Ephesians because that is how it works. I think it is very important that we might be convicted, I would say this feelingly, I think we need to be convicted of the need of it today. Some are giving way; we do not want to be among them. I say that feelingly. We want to stand on certain, sure ground. It speaks in Exodus 15 about the dry ground (Exodus 15: 19), and again in Joshua 3, dry ground (Joshua 3: 17). The Lord will bring us on to that; dry ground, firm ground. One of the psalms says, He brought me up “out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock” (Psalm 40: 2); another touch that came in at the end of the earlier meeting. God is a rock and His work is perfect (Deuteronomy 32: 4).

GBG That is right, so we are really growing in the knowledge of God in this epistle, are we not? What God is like; the compassions of God, God is for us, and coming to that is a very establishing thing, is it not? And then there is the way God has with us, in the ways of God with us, we learn God through these also. So therefore there is what He is objectively towards us, but then there are His ways with us; I think learning God in how He handles us, and in His ways with us, we learn His attributes, His nature, and these are establishing things.

DBR So that the wilderness in one sense it teaches us what the flesh is in ourselves, but the great thing is that it teaches us God,

‘In the desert God will teach thee,

What the God that thou hast found—‘ (Hymn 76)

I appeal to the young people to be exercised, and become convicted as to these things, and lay hold of them so that they are on sure ground.

RW Paul says in Romans 8, “I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord”, (Romans 8: 38, 39).

DBR Yes that is good. That is a Pauline word, “persuaded”. It is a good thing to come across a persuaded person, not easily moved. He is on the road in a firm stable way, do you think?

RW Yes, I was wondering about that, being established is in view that you are not going to go away from that line.

DBR I think it speaks about not being tossed and carried about by every wind of teaching (Ephesians 4: 14), swaying this way and swaying that way. You may have heard of Mr. Darby’s definition of a straight line as one which never diverges from direction to one fixed point (J.N.D. C.W. Vol. 32, p.113). Thus “cutting in a straight line the word of truth”, 2 Timothy 2: 15. You see it is always moving in the same direction, it is a straight line in that sense.

APG The Lord spoke of the prudent man building his house on the rock. I was thinking that was a sure foundation, what had been founded upon the rock, that is, “Whoever therefore hears these my words and does them” (Matthew 7: 24), that is a sound foundation is it not? That is the end of the first course of instruction in Matthew. There is a lot said about righteousness there and righteousness is a sure foundation.

DBR Does it say there that he dug and went deep?

APG I think that is Luke.

DBR Well that is necessary too, that we dig and go deep, get to the root of things. Get to the root of the fact that God has worked in you; that is a tremendous thing to come to, that God has done something in you.

GBG As to what has been said about building the house on the rock. Mr. A. J. Gardiner has a helpful remark as to that. He thought in this case it was not actually on Christ personally, it was on what was morally of Christ. Reference has been made to righteousness, so if you go on doing what is right, you go on with what is morally right, you become a stable person. And these are the kind of persons that hades’ gates will not prevail against (Matthew 16: 18).

DBR Yes, it is just a question of going on with what is right. That scripture that I have quoted says “He is the Rock, his work is perfect ... Just and right is he”, Deuteronomy 32: 4. Now if God works in you, He would help you to be just and right too, and it is in that way that we become established in our ways in relation to the will of God.

CKR In relation to your exercise it is God who is doing it. That is the basis of your exercise, is it not? God is working to establish the saints. So would you say that “according to my glad tidings” is like the substance of Paul’s glad tidings and the truth of it; “the preaching of Jesus Christ” might be the operational service in the presentation of it to bring souls into deeper appreciation of the moral glories of this blessed Man, in view of the mystery following?

DBR That is good, so that “according to my glad tidings”, it is important to see that is Christ where He is. That is the essence or the height of Paul’s ministry, but what underlies it is the moral glory of this blessed Person, Jesus Christ; it is like the acacia wood typically, the kind of man that has endured. Well God would make us like that too, that we are enduring. Say more.

CKR I do not know if I can, but you should feel if you are established, should you not? You know in yourself whether you are doubting and shaking. The wind comes along and may upset you, but you need to get into the presence of God, in order to see that God would confirm what He has worked out in you for His glory, and that brings us on to the eternal day.

DBR It does indeed. I think what you say is very helpful about getting into the presence of God about things. There is nothing too simple to bring to God. The children can understand that, you can bring the smallest matter into the presence of God and get help about it.

APG So the preaching of Jesus Christ excludes every other man, does it not? It excludes the first man; this Man is the man that God found delight in, is He not?

DBR Yes you think of Paul. He said, “I did not judge it well to know anything among you save Jesus Christ, and him crucified”, 1 Corinthians 2: 2. We sometimes misquote that scripture, we say ‘know nothing among you save Jesus Christ crucified’, but it is not that, it was to know nothing among them ‘save Jesus Christ and him crucified’; it is that kind of man.

APG Paul refers to Him as the foundation too in 1 Corinthians 3. “For other foundation can no man lay besides that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 3: 11).

JAW You have a long list of names in this chapter. I noticed how much “in Christ” is brought into that. So and so “in Christ”, “in Christ before me”, “approved in Christ”, so there was something substantial in these persons, no two are the same. There was something substantial in these persons he was writing about, was there?

DBR Yes, you would say these were established persons. They are worthy to be brought forward into scripture, and here they are today a testimony of persons to God, “to him who is able to establish you”.

AP Can you help us as to the obedience of faith, verse 26?

DBR Yes, “made known for obedience of faith”. Well that is another important principle in the life of the Christian, is obedience. It is the first thing that comes to light is that you obey the glad tidings, you have faith in them; we are marked by the obedience of faith. I think it is an important principle, or an important quality, might be a better way of putting it, that appears in the life of the Christian, that we are obedient persons; not rebellious, not disobedient, not wanting to seek our own way, but seeking God’s way do you think?

AP What has been said about conviction, we get that at the start of Hebrews 11, “faith is the substantiating of things not seen” (Hebrews 11: 1). Do you think what has been said about being ready for movement would be similar to the obedience of faith?

DBR Yes, the thing was set out very well in Abraham that he went out not knowing where he went, but he went out on the principle of obedience to God; obedience to His word.

MG The obedience of faith here is put as related to the revelation of the mystery. At the start of this epistle obedience of faith is put in relation to God’s glad tidings. The obedience of faith here, does it mean I need to respond to light that I receive? Could we have some help.

DBR That is good, it means that you respond to the light as you get it. We have been taught, and we have proved that it is true, that if you do not respond to the light you get no more light. But if you respond to light God will give you more light. That helps you to arrive at the conviction of things, you are on a right line of things, you are getting things from God, you are getting things from the source, “to him that is able”. I think it is particularly needed when you come to the truth of the mystery, it is a wonderful light, it is a wonderful favour to be brought into the truth of Christ and the assembly, not every Christian has that. Thank God we are in a circle where something is known of it, and we want to be marked by the obedience of faith.

MG So in one sense it is easier to be obedient to the glad tidings because it gives me relief, but to be obedient to the revelation of the mystery might involve more exercise in myself, than would be required for obeying the glad tidings.

DBR Yes I think it would involve increased exercise, the power to set things aside that would hinder you; you have power to set things aside that might stunt your growth. What is the word that Peter uses in that list? The word ‘virtue’ is the one I am thinking about.

CKR That is in 2 Peter 1: 5, “But for this very reason also, using therewith all diligence, in your faith have also virtue, in virtue knowledge ...”.

DBR Yes that is it, Mr. James Taylor said a very simple thing about that, he said it is just the power to say ‘no’ to something, sometimes we have to say ‘no’ to things. You become convicted as to something that is going to lead you off the track and you say ‘no’. I am speaking practically now and I believe experimentally, you will find the Spirit will give you help when you say ‘no’ to something.

GBG Because once you make the first compromise the second is easier. That is the case I think, so you seek grace to say ‘no’ right away to what is not right; you do not play around with it to start with, because it can get a hold of you.

DBR Yes, the ground becomes more slippy. It leads you away; we do not want to become negative at all in this reading, but I think you can see the positive need of being established in these things. What do you think about this “according to commandment of the eternal God”, why should that be brought in here?

GBG Not really but commandments are something that are definite from God’s side; it is definite from God, a commandment from God.

DBR It is not going to be different tomorrow, it is fixed do you think?

APG It says, “he commanded and it stood fast”, Psalm 33: 9. That is really what a commandment is, it cannot be changed.

DBR Yes that is the One who is able to establish us, able to command something that stands fast, He is able to command you in that sense.

CKR Absolutely, two great truths therefore that we want to remain being established in, is the truth of the glad tidings, and the truth of the mystery; as seeing that the mystery is something that has been revealed and kept until the time of Paul’s ministry.

DBR Exactly, remarkable language “as to which silence has been kept in the times of the ages, but which has now been made manifest, and by prophetic scriptures”. I noticed some time ago when I was reading an article by Mr. Darby and I followed it through, He is very careful to say these are not Old Testament prophets, they are New Testament prophets because the truth of the mystery does not really appear in the Old Testament. There are some types, but the New Testament prophets brought it out, and Paul was one of them (see J.N.D. C.W. Vol. 32, p.404; Vol. 34, p.403). So it is “by prophetic scriptures, according to commandment of the eternal God”.

CKR The footnote ‘e’ is very interesting; ‘It formed no part of what was unfolded in the ages of time, in which God developed his plans in creation; it was a purpose before, and eternally hidden; it was not in reckoned time.’

DBR Yes, see what we are brought into! See the wonder of the thing that we are brought into! Not only do we need conviction, we need wonderment in our souls, that God would bring us into such choice matters.

RB I was thinking that, we need to be exercised individually to have conviction and to be established; but there is a sense in which we are established together as we enjoy these things, is there?

DBR Now, if you meet a convicted person does that not influence you? It becomes an influence. We become influential with one another as we stand on firm ground, as we are convicted about it. I think there is a great need for influence among the saints, not what is arbitrary. I am talking about what is influential among the saints, you may say fatherly influence, spiritual influence, priestly influence; the influence of persons who know God and who frequent the presence of God, all these things are needed at the present time.

RB I was looking earlier for that scripture at the end of first Timothy, it speaks there of those that lay by for themselves a good foundation, “that they may lay hold of what is really life”, 1 Timothy 6: 19. Do you think as we see persons who are enjoying what is really life we are drawn into it ourselves? It is really an affectionate matter is it not?

DBR It has been said about Mr. Darby, that he tried to influence no one, but by going on he influenced everyone. So the secret, beloved brethren, is to go on. Let us be helped to see that the secret of this is just to go on.

DAA We have referred to Abraham already, but the ultimate of his journey was to arrive at dwelling conditions was it not? I was thinking the oaks of Mamre would speak of what is stable. In Ephesians we get the side “that the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts, being rooted and founded in love” (Ephesians 3: 17). It seems to me that we need to be exercised to get through to dwelling conditions and therefore we would get through to stability.

DBR It becomes a kind of fixed matter, it is your abode. It is where you live, like Abram, by the oaks of Mamre. We want to dwell there, dwell on firm ground and things which are stable, and we may say things that are according to the purpose of God and the will of God.

DMcL I was just thinking when you were speaking about the commandment of the eternal God, that is a link with stability too, there is nothing more stable than the eternal God is there? I do not want to be negative but James speaks about the “double-minded man, unstable in all his ways” (James 1: 8); if you are single-minded it makes you stable does it not?

DBR It is a wonderful thought, the eternal God coming in with the thought of commandment. Well these are precious touches beloved brethren, and I must say I got a fresh touch as to this verse in 1 Corinthians 15, “The last enemy that is annulled is death. For he has put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he says that all things are put in subjection, it is evident that it is except him who put all things in subjection to him.” Then it says, “But when all things shall have been brought into subjection to him, then the Son also himself shall be placed in subjection”. And earlier it refers to the kingdom, and He gives up the kingdom. The impression I got freshly this morning was that it suggests that everything has led up to this end, the day of eternity, and an established order of things that will characterise eternity. You cannot think of eternity in the presence of God being otherwise, but established and firm and sure. I would like to hear what the brethren think about that.

GBG There will be nothing left to be subjugated in this kingdom; it has all been subjugated, but God must be supreme must He not? Subjection is an eternal moral feature is it not? So in this scripture is it God and man? It is that God may be all in all. But you get Christ in sonship in manhood in subjection that “God may be all in all”, so it is God and man is it not?

DBR Very good, God and man. It is God “all in all”. He is all as being in you, He is all as being in man, is that your thought?

GBG Yes that is right, but man’s true place in relation to God is one of subjection, so that gives God the supreme place.

DBR Yes and that will remain eternally.

DMcL When Nebuchadnezzar was recovered he says “whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation”, Daniel 4: 34.

DBR What do you think about that?

DMcL Well we say he was from a previous dispensation, but he had a glimpse of it when he speaks, really he is referring to an everlasting dominion one that would never end. He recognised that as a king he had claims over things, but he recognised that there was a much greater than he, whose kingdom and dominion was everlasting, no end to it.

DBR I think it is quite clear that the idea of the kingdom will go into eternity, not in the sense of meeting need or meeting issues, or overthrowing evil, but God will be God in and man will be man. Even Christ as man takes the place of subjection. What a wonderful quality subjection is in that way. But God will be God and man will be man. It struck me this morning too that in the bread you really have man for God, and in the cup you have God for man. You see how God secures man for Himself, what it means to Him, God and man.

APG Peter says, “we wait for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness”, 2 Peter 3: 13. I was thinking about dwelling conditions for righteousness, there will be nothing to disturb righteousness.

DBR I think it has been said that at the present time righteousness suffers, in the millennium righteousness will reign and in eternity righteousness dwells. These are fine things to get established in your soul.

CKR Well it is great truth to be established in, that there will be an eternity. For the help of the younger ones, we are ushered into eternal conditions at the rapture. All the administration that follows on, the heavenly administration over the earth, but there is something very special that the saints are raptured into glorified and eternal conditions. Christ is in an eternal and glorified condition, and God will rest in that.

DBR And we will receive bodies of glory like unto His own body of glory, what a comfort that is. Now how many wills are there in eternity?

CKR I would have said one.

DBR There will be only one effective will in eternity. You think of it today, sometimes alas in our assemblies, different wills come to light. Let us beware of the will of man, beloved brethren, let us be subject persons, obedient persons; persons who are dependent on God and glory in the knowledge of God. But when it comes to eternity there will be only one will, the will of God.

AP Could I just ask how what you are saying about the kingdom relates to Revelation 1, where it says, “To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood, and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father” (Revelation 1: 5), is that a similar thought?

DBR “And made us a kingdom”, is that what you are referring to? That is present, but is a fine thought to bring in because a kingdom of priests, kingdom linked with priesthood. So there is a certain power and authority linked with priesthood; where you have a priestly influence among the saints there is authority in that, it is not an enforced authority, it is authority nevertheless. Well it is a wonderful thought that “God may be all in all”

GBG So God will fill every heart.

DBR Exactly.

GBG He is “all” in that way.

DBR Everything will be perfect for God and perfect for man. It is a wonderful thing that there is no thought of a vacuum there, every heart will be filled, filled with God.

Reading at Dundee
25 December 2011

KEY TO INITIALS

D. A. Alexander	D. McLaren	Alan Walker
R. Brown	S. McLaren	Derek Walker
A. P. Grant	A. Pittman	Russell Wallace
G. B. Grant	C. K. Robinson	D. B. Robertson
M. Grant