FAITH AND SPIRITUALITY AS SEEN IN ABRAHAM (1)
[p. 267] FAITH AND SPIRITUALITY AS SEEN IN ABRAHAM (1)
Genesis 14: 18 - 24; Genesis 15: 1 - 21
JT I was thinking of Abraham, particularly in view of the intervention of Melchisedec and his ministry, and at the same time of the word of God coming in in chapter 15. In making this proposal one believes that it is most opportune at the present time; that is, what is involved in Genesis 14 and 15: first the extraordinary reference to Melchisedec, typifying to us as he does clearly, One who is a divine Person and yet viewed as Man here historically. Hence it becomes a question of our having the understanding that is needed to live in the realm that is suggested, the realm of faith, but also of spirituality. Both faith and spirituality are needed, in order to penetrate what is implied in these scriptures, especially in Melchisedec. He is referred to in the New Testament in a peculiar way, for the Spirit through him would bring before us no less a Person than the Lord Jesus Himself, in whatsoever way we may look at him. He is spoken of very little in Scripture, only here, and in Psalm 110, and in the epistle to the Hebrews; and it seems to me, that it will tax our faith and our spirituality to speak of him, to take on this subject with profit, because if it is not for profit, it will not serve us much. It is not a question of what we may know of the chapters in the ordinary sense, but of what spirituality we have in dealing with them.
AMH You have said that this was particularly applicable to the present time. Do you mean this Melchisedec setting is particularly applicable to us?
JT Well, the spiritual side attached to it. It is not simply a question of what is in the subject, but what we are, what is in us spiritually; and I [p. 268] believe that has a significance in view of the end, because the Lord intends to make the end of the dispensation what it should be. He intends to make it spiritual; He intends that we should go out spiritually, and know where we are going. We are told that the Lord Himself is coming for us; but then the question is, Have we a spiritual understanding of these chapters and the connection of them in the New Testament, especially with the epistles to the Thessalonians?
JC-S So that heaven has provided spiritual facilities for us in order that the divine end of spirituality in us might be reached.
JT Quite. Spiritual facilities is a good expression. I believe it begins with the beginning; it begins with the first chapter of Genesis. It is a question of the days, and how they are to be regulated, how we fit into them, especially the sun and the moon and the stars.
PHH Have you had in mind the Lord Jesus in speaking of the sun, and the assembly in speaking of the moon, and spiritual men in mentioning the stars? Would they be amongst the spiritual facilities in mind?
JT I think what you say is very appropriate, because we need not only Christ and the assembly, but men, individuals fitted especially to shine in God’s realm, the realm of His operations, especially since the time of the breakdown of the assembly. There has been a great need for this, for individuals to come out and take their part each in what there is to be done. We have it in spiritual history and in hymns, that since the breakdown there have been men who are more or less in accord with the mind of heaven. The Reformation, under God, brought out the possibilities that have been, but all is greatly accentuated now in the light that has been furnished, extending down [p. 269] to our times.
CCC The thought of glory attaching to it would stimulate our hearts. I was thinking of 1 Corinthians 15, the different glories; the sun’s glory, the moon’s glory, and star differing from star in glory.
JT That is good.
Ques Had you in mind that the bread and wine might sustain Abraham in view of the word of the Lord reaching him? I was thinking of the reference to spiritual facilities. Would the bread and wine come under that heading, and in the next chapter, the word of Jehovah coming to him? I wondered whether you had in mind our being built up constitutionally so that the word of Jehovah could come to us.
JT Just so. And the word coming in here in the sense of opening up things, opening up the mind of God as to any given time, and the connection of this with the epistle to the Hebrews, in the priesthood of Christ, and the word of God. The priesthood of Christ is to fit us according to any spirituality that we may have, and strengthen us, and the Spirit adds its help to our weakness; and then the word itself strengthens us as to the light of God that is available to us, and then the bread and the wine. In the Lord’s supper it is the bread and the cup, but bread and wine have a distinctive meaning as to what strengthens the heart, and the joy that goes with what there is in the word, as it is said of Christ, “the joy that was set before him”. The Lord would bring us into that joy.
JC-S We are oftentimes deficient in the thought of joy.
JT Yes, I think so. One feels one’s own shallowness and meagreness as to it, and no doubt we all feel the same way. At the same time it is remarkable what God has brought about amongst His people at the present time, and whilst not [p. 270] eulogising ourselves, it is well to accept facts, and be thankful for them.
Ques Would you say there is in that provision strength and buoyancy to go through exceedingly testing circumstances?
JT Strength and buoyancy; that is good. That is exactly what comes out in chapter 14, in the bread and wine brought forth. It comes after a term of conflict, in which God made Abraham victorious, and not only was he victorious, but he secured lost ground, lost property. So it says, “Melchisedec king of Salem brought out bread and wine. And he was priest of the Most High God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the Most High God, possessor of heavens and earth. And blessed be the Most High God”. So that we have here in effect and in substance, not only the blessing of the saints, the blessing of the assembly, but the thought of blessing God too. These two things have been brought together in a peculiar way in our own times.
CHH Is it important that Abraham comes under the personal service of Melchisedec?
JT Very good, the personal service.
CHH I wondered whether coming under the personal service of Christ is the great means of developing spirituality.
JT Yes; developing it in intelligence, as it is said, “The Lord will give thee understanding”, not only making us spiritual, but giving us understanding.
JC-S And he was “priest of the Most High God”. Would that put a spiritual impress upon the matter?
JT Well, the whole position is in view, we might say, it is a question of the universal position into which God has come. We call it rightly the economy into which God has come, but then, that [p. 271] may be simply spoken of as a dispensation, but there is more than that. The economy is more than a dispensation. It is a question of divine operations, and the One who is the great Operator; that is, Christ.
AJG Would you say that the end in view in His operations is that God Himself in His supremacy, Possessor of heavens and earth, should be before us, and served?
JT Just so; and so if we are to deal with special ministrations or personalities in the ministry, then it is a great matter to have before us the ministry that each may have, beginning with Paul, for what he set out was special, it was outstanding. The idea of the economy can hardly be restricted to a dispensation, for it is more, because it is a question of what God is doing, and the personnel by which He is operating.
JC-S You have in mind that the word economy refers not merely to a dispensation. In the economy there are certain divine operations, involving the Spirit’s work, and in relation to what has come out in Christ, the revelation of the Father; all that enters into that.
JT And then, what I have referred to in speaking of the expanse; that is, the opening out in a fresh way of what God had primarily introduced in the thought of the word heaven. The word heaven is greatly amplified in what is said of the expanse in the second day; the allusion is to what God has as a sphere of operations; and we must therefore make allowance for these operations. The great Operator is Christ, but then there are those whom He has taken on, and what may develop out of each, and then how we are to view ourselves, as we have already said as to the economy. Each is to view himself, and see what part he is to have, because Satan has come into what is called heaven;
[p. 272] that is, the expanse, and he would oppose these operations. God called the expanse “heaven”; He called it that Himself, yet He does not say it was good. There is something to be deduced from that, and from the general thought of heaven; and we have to consider what we may be, what each may be, in it, and how each may contribute to it, and whether he is in the expanse according to the primary thought of God as to heaven.
Ques Is it suggested in the passage in Daniel? “And they that are wise shall shine as the brightness of the expanse; and they that turn the many to righteousness as the stars, for ever and ever”, Daniel 12: 3.
JT Very good. That fits in well.
PHH I was wondering whether it is possible to be in the expanse, even in an active way, and yet not thoroughly fitting in with God’s primary thought. I suppose a good many in Christendom, many for instance as indicated in 2 Timothy would be professedly in the sphere of God’s operations, but not with Him. Is that what you mean by speaking of how each one may be in it?
JT Quite so; and how God may segregate us and keep us in accord with His primary thought, that is to say, with heaven; with what God began with. God made the heavens and the earth, and they continue, only there has been an addition on the second day, and it is a question therefore of how we treat that day, and how we are in it, and whether we belong, as it were, to the segregation, understanding that we have a heavenly part.
PL Would the allusion in Deborah’s song to the stars in their courses serving in the conflict, bear upon this?
JT It would, when it is a question of conflict, and, of course, we are dealing with conflict now in the chapter that is before us. Satan has come into [p. 273] the expanse, and there must be conflict until he is driven out; and therefore the questions come up, How did he get there, and how is he to be driven out? Scripture leaves no doubt about that. But now we are occupied with the spiritual side, and we want to make the most of the hour that we have, in speaking of the spiritual side, and of what Melchisedec may mean to us, according to what we get here; and then the word of God following on that, as instructing us and settling mind and adjusting us, as to the actual territory in mind in Genesis 15.
CHH Abraham’s dealings with Melchisedec brought about a right state with him, so that he said to the king of Sodom, “I have lifted up my hand to Jehovah, the Most High God, possessor of heavens and earth”.
JT You mean that he was affected in that way.
CHH I thought that he was affected by the ministry, giving him a link with the Most High, and then in the beginning of the next chapter God Himself says to him, “I am thy shield, thy exceeding great reward”.
JT Quite so, and we shall get great advance as we proceed in the chapters from the fifteenth, because we have to reach heaven itself, not only the instruction of chapter 15, but heaven, the specialities of the later chapters.
ET Is it in mind that the economy includes more than one dispensation?
JT I think it would. There are more than one.
ET You alluded interestingly in Sydney to the scriptures as bearing particularly upon the past dispensation and upon Christianity, upon Israel and upon the assembly. Does that link on?
JT Well, I am not sure that we have time to enlarge on the subject now in that way, but we might at any rate, at this juncture, refer to [p. 274] 1 Corinthians 10: 11, where we have the allusion to dispensations. “All these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come”. “The ends of the ages” is plural, and the idea apparently is dispensations, so that we have to distinguish, and segregate, as I would say, using that word, and see where certain persons belong, and certain families belong. “Every family in the heavens and on earth” is named of the Father, and we have to place each family, and of course it will open up much to us, especially because of the assembly, which will be in our minds.
PHH Is it interesting here that Melchisedec blesses the man before he blesses God? Is that to bring into our minds the greatness of the persons in relation to whom God is operating?
JT Abraham is a typical believer; he is Abraham the believer. He has his circumstances, and his ups and downs, so that God will take account of the ups and the downs, and so God would think of Abraham. Melchisedec thinks of him. It is said, “Melchisedec king of Salem brought out bread and wine. And he was priest of the Most High God. And he blessed him”, that is Abram — “and said, Blessed be Abram”. That is, he begins with Abram; but then if we are blessed, we are ready to have part in blessing God.
JC-S That would be the end in view of faith, in that way, in his soul.
JT It would indeed.
Ques Is it noticeable, that it does not say of Melchisedec that he went out to meet Abram, but it does say of the king of Sodom, that he went out to meet Abram? Of Melchisedec, it is said that he brought out bread and wine. Would that bear on the ever-availability of the Lord?
JT Quite so, bringing out what we need.
[p. 275] Rem And being near to us, so to speak, all the time.
JT Quite so. The word, “The Lord is near”, is always happily in mind in these cases.
Ques Would John 13 show the way in which the Lord would leave a personal touch of His love and service upon each one of His disciples, before He left them, providing all that is necessary for them in the feet-washing?
JT Very good. We are now engaged with the great believer, and how heaven treats him and meets him, and so the next chapter says, “After these things the word of Jehovah came to Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram; I am thy shield, thy exceeding great reward”. That is to say, God Himself takes the matter up as to the believer, because we are here in the presence of Abram the believer. It is a question of where we are, whether we are believers or simply nominally brethren.
AM Does it all call attention to the living and operative character of the word of God?
JT It does indeed. Those chapters in Hebrews which came to one just now touch on Melchisedec, but we should perhaps stress a little the thought of believing. So that we get the word here applied to Abraham. He “believed Jehovah” it says, “and he reckoned it to him as righteousness”.
JC-S He was really a righteous man on that account.
JT Therefore, you might say representative of the material which God has on hand in the expanse.
PHH And reliable in view of all that God would unfold?
JT Clearly, being himself the heir of the world. You could hardly get a more important person than Abram in that sense, because he is the heir of the world.
CHH Does “he believed God” mean that Abram became characteristically a believer?
JT He did indeed. The point in Romans is that we should be believers.
Ques Does it not say “believing Abraham”, (Galatians 3: 9); he had that kind of character?
JT That is what I thought. He is Abraham the believer, you might say, according to Galatians. He is characteristically the believer.
CHH Would you distinguish between believers and brethren? Are some brethren not believers?
JT Well, it is a question of the use of terms. There are many known as brethren who can hardly be regarded as characteristic believers.
Ques It is said in Romans that he “found strength in faith”. Is that faith in activity?
JT Just so. It is “for obedience of faith among all the nations”, and we are here among the nations, down in the very extremities, you might say, of the nations. It is a question of having the features of the believer.
AMH Believing would link us up with the work of God that is going on in the expanse. Faith is spoken of as the substance of things hoped for, in Hebrews 11.
JT So that the great army of believers in that chapter is to bring that out. Abraham went out, not knowing whither he went. That is, he acted in faith, trusting in God. It is a question of God, Abraham and God. Later God says to Abraham, “It is I” (chapter 17: 4). God takes this ground with him.
JC-S Then faith does not ask for a way with sign-posts to direct you.
JT Quite so. We do not get sign-posts or external ways and means. It is a question of faith, nevertheless we do see, but it is a question of faith,
as the Lord says, “Blessed they who have not seen and have believed”, John 20: 29.
AM Is it important in that connection that Abraham’s vision is directed at once to the heavens and the stars rather than to the earth? Verse 5 says, “And he led him out, and said, Look now toward the heavens, and number the stars”.
JT Yes; you have an allusion in chapter 13 (verses 14 - 17) that might help in that. I call attention to that because of the reference to seed as the dust of the earth, as over against the stars. Our chapter has the stars in mind, but we will have more about that later. The territory in mind here is not the heavenly side. It is the general position that is granted to Abraham. It says in verse 18, “On the same day Jehovah made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates”. That shows it is the general territory to which the word of God would apply, and what disposition God may make of it, and where the families on the earth may be found, and where the material for the assembly may be found. But we shall later find the things more distinguished as to the heavenly side and Christ Himself being the Heir of everything.
AJG Do you mean that we are to be intelligent in the whole range of divine interests including other families besides ourselves?
JT I thought that. And therefore the word of God is mentioned here for the first time. It is the word of God, as if God would call attention to His mind, not only as to heaven, but as to the whole earth, the whole territory in which He is operating.
Ques Is there any distinction in it being the word of Jehovah in the Darby Translation?
JT It is the word of God. It is a question of God, really, for the word is His word, and therefore,
[p. 278] that is brought in to answer Abraham’s enquiry. God says to him in verse 7, “I am Jehovah who brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give thee this land to possess it. And he said, Lord Jehovah” (note that it is ‘Lord Jehovah’), “how shall I know that I shall possess it?” It is a question of how he is to know. The area in God’s mind is very wide, and the instruction as to it runs on to the end of the chapter. It is the application of the word of God, and shows how things are made clear by the word of God.
AJG So that in the presence of all that is being done by man in the world, — for we have the conflict of the five kings against four — believers are to be entirely lifted out of that, and fully governed by the light that God is giving as to the immensity of what He is effecting?
JT That is what I was thinking in using the word segregation because the idea in the second day is general, and what is done is not called good. That is, Satan is supposed to be there, and we have to face that, and know how to behave in view of it, and to conserve what is of God.
PHH And in that there is the knowledge which is based on belief.
JT That is right. And what the word of God affords too. Not simply the ordinary knowledge of things, but the word of God.
PHH The scope of His mind.
JT Exactly. Not only what He says, but what He is apt to say, and the word has that meaning; not only what He has actually said, but what He is likely to say. It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and so we have to be prepared for things to be concealed, and for finding them out. The glory of kings is to find them out, and that is our business this morning.
[p. 279] Ques Do you mean that God would have every believer on this personal basis as available for what He may be pleased to convey?
JT I would say that. We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, before the judgment seat of God. Each has to give an account for himself of the things done in the body. So that we are before God on an individual basis as you were saying.
JC-S So that the word of God would regulate us in regard of the whole position.
JT It surely does. We can tell where we are, but then we can tell where God is, what He is doing, what His purposes are.
Ques Would it be a peculiar joy to God to have a believer to whom He could entrust His thoughts which would involve suffering and testing for all his posterity?
JT That is exactly what Abraham is. Abraham is a believer. God has taken him up, selected him out of a whole race and called him alone. He says, “I called him when he was alone, and blessed him”, Isaiah 51: 2. So that God has His man, that is the point that is before us for this particular reading, and there are the word of God and the priesthood of Christ. We are supported by the priesthood of Christ, by that Person, and we are furnished in the sense of food, even as everything is provided for Abraham.
PHH You have drawn attention sometimes to the way the word of God in Hebrews (chapter 4), runs on to God Himself. First of all it says, “The word of God is living and operative” and finishes with “And there is not a creature unapparent before him; but all things are naked and laid bare to his eyes, with whom we have to do”. Would you mind saying a little more as to how God Himself is in His [p. 280] word?
JT That brings out what we have been dwelling on in Genesis 15. It is a question of God’s mind, for the whole world, for the whole earth. Not simply what lie would give to Abraham of course, that is mentioned too, but as we look at it we shall see that it is a question of God’s mind, where He is, what God is doing, what section of the world He is operating in.
JC-S So that we are to come into line with what He is doing.
JT We are. It is the extent of the territory here, it is given in verses 18 - 21. It is for us to determine as it were where God is in all this, because it is His territory, There is China, and the rest of Asia, also Africa, Australia, Europe and America; where is God in all this? Is He doing something special? It is a question of our learning specialities, to name them and be in them, if we are properly belonging to them. Genesis 15 does not go so far; it is on lower ground really, as we shall see in later chapters, where God distinguishes His heavenly people, but here we are dealing with the whole idea. It is the divine mind at the outset and where God is in the area belonging to Him, at any given time. So that if we take Japheth, where is God? Is He working in that territory? Or is He working in Ham, or is He working in Shem? I am only endeavouring to bring out the general thought as to where God is at any given time.
PL Would that fit in with having an understanding of the times?
JT Exactly. An understanding of the times and the map too, not only the time, but the actual territory that we are dealing with.
JC-S Does that involve what you said at the beginning, faith and spirituality?
JT Just so. Because we need these two things if we are to make any headway at all in [p. 281] the truth.
CCC Would the reference to the number of the stars in verse 5 have in mind to give us an impression of the greatness of the position rather than the thought of what is the heavenly side?
JT Yes; you see what God is in it, and what He has. We have assertions on the part of the nations as to what they each have, but God is asserting His rights in the present time in testimony. It is what He has, and that is the point I thought we might confine ourselves to in chapter 15, because it is a question of the covenant God had made at this time with Abraham, and the extent of the territory.