FRUITBEARING AND TESTIMONY
FRUITBEARING AND TESTIMONY
AMH I suppose the Father had waited thousands of years for this fruit, looking for it in vain from elsewhere? It must have been a great moment when One here could say, “I am the true vine”, and the thought of the Father as the Husbandman seems to be very attractive. The branch is introduced to produce fruit, fruit for the Father’s heart, would you say?
JT It seems an abrupt change, as you might call it. At the end of the previous chapter the Lord says, “Rise up, let us go hence”; so that this chapter would have in mind another side of the truth. The vine evidently introduces a subject by itself, but, as I was saying, the previous chapter closes its subject.
AMH In chapter 13 He has shown the kind of world He is leaving them in, and the way He is providing for them against it, would you say? In chapter 14 He seems to be providing them with what is heavenly, that they might dwell in the light of that whilst in this scene where He can visit them. Then He says, “Rise up, let us go hence”; breaking off, as you say, to another subject, and this matter of fruit.
JC-S What are we to gather from the thought of the vine?
JT I suppose it is an earthly matter, the vine would bear fruit. The kind of fruit has to be considered. Certainly we do not have the heavenly side to start with. So much arises as we proceed in John, because things came into the Lord’s mind, or were there, that would attach to Him as He was here on earth, and their position could be viewed according to this, so that the Lord may be regarded as dealing with things having just an immediate [p. 377] bearing. Chapter 11 has been dealing with something by itself, and now the Lord is ready to go on to something else; and He applies it to them, saying, “My Father is the husbandman. As to every branch in me not bearing fruit he takes it away; and as to every one bearing fruit, he purges it that it may bring forth more fruit. Ye are already clean by reason of the word which I have spoken to you”. So that He is turning the matter over on them, clearly having in mind what is there which would bear such a change, and the fact that they were clean by reason of the word which, as He says, “I have spoken to you”; it brings up the question as to why the idea of cleansing comes in, and why it is “the word”.
MB Do you think the thought of the vine had its fulfilment in Him, and terminated in His death here; but the thought of fruit-bearing is carried on in the disciples and that it might be written over the chapter, “From me is thy fruit found”?
JT From the use of the word “true vine” we must have in mind what existed from the Old Testament down, though it could be immediately applied to them. Then the cleansing is by the word, which would mean that it is very substantive and it affects the mind.
JC-S Is that introduced as a necessary adjunct to the idea of bearing fruit?
JT It would be a question of the mind, and how what the Lord said would apply to the minds of the disciples. It would clearly mean that we are entering now on the thought of intelligence. Then we have the word, “Abide in me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abide in the vine, thus neither can ye unless ye abide in me”. Then it goes on, “I am the vine”, leaving out the word “true” — “ye are the branches. He that abides in me and I in him, he bears much fruit”.
[p. 378] So that the Lord had in His mind what would work out through the instruction, their minds being acted upon, the word which He had spoken and the purifying effect of it. What had you in mind in your reference to fruit?
JC-S “The word which I have spoken to you” would be an absolute necessity to their bearing fruit.
JT And He would take the place of being the Source of everything. That would be a matter of intelligence. It is very needful that the thought of intelligence should extend not only to the brothers but to the sisters; that things should be taken up intelligently by all. The assembly must be in mind, indeed it is a matter of the saints and it includes all who have the Spirit. So it is a question whether the sisters take on the idea of intelligence, or whether they leave everything to their husbands.
RRT It says, “Ye are already clean by reason of the word which I have spoken to you”. It is not “words”, it is “word”. Does that refer to the manner of His speaking in John? He is introduced in this gospel as the Word.
JT “The Word was God”; in our prayer we noted it, and in our hymn; so that He becomes the Source of everything, and this applies to both brothers and sisters; so that the mind becomes active and is applied now to the idea of the vine, an earthly position; for clearly we have to begin with the earth and the working out of things where we are.
JC-S Do you suggest that what is taken up on the earth and is filled out there must precede the higher level that John leads on to?
JT That is what I was thinking. There is that which the Lord works out in relation to an earthly position. In Romans 15: 8, he had such a position to confirm the promises of the fathers. It is clear the earth has to be dealt with first. The Lord went up to heaven as having first come down from heaven; He says “And if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before”, and again He says, “The Son of man who is in heaven”, indicating that He would take a heavenly place. But clearly as having come to earth and become a Man He would take up what referred to man, and so is here seen as the Vine. That would be a thought that God had worked on previously, but now it is applied to the disciples, the Lord’s disciples; because according to Isaiah He had disciples, and they were His children, they were regarded as His property, as His family; see Isaiah 8: 16 - 18.
JC-S So that the idea of the vine found in the Old Testament, is not allowed to lapse; it is re-established in Christ and extended to the disciples.
JT I was thinking of how we could make a present application, because if we cannot apply it to the present moment it would be unpractical. We have to make a present application of the truth and make it useful, make it food for each other. Thus we would work out this matter of the vine, and the things that accompany and implement it here, especially the idea of the word, the word that Christ had spoken to them. That was to have an immediate effect and constitute them a part of the system He was now working in. He was the Vine, and they were the branches, so that we are to see how the truth is workable and applicable at the present moment as we abide in Him.
EB In Isaiah 5: 7 we read, “The vineyard of Jehovah of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah the plant of his delight”. In chapter 8: 16 it says, “Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples” and in verse 18, “Behold, I and the children that Jehovah hath given me”. Did you have in mind that, whereas there had been failure in Israel in regard to God’s thoughts, now a divine Person having come in, those thoughts have been [p. 380] established and God glorified in regard of them? All were answered to in Christ and His disciples. The principle of this continues for us as we hear the word of Christ and abide in Him; thus we bring forth much fruit. “If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will and it shall come to pass to you. In this is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit, and ye shall become disciples of mine”.
JT Very good. So that the present application is to us, and in making that application we are free to extend our thoughts, which is sometimes necessary to make the application workable. We see in the scripture referred to that the Lord has a family, “the children that Jehovah hath given me”, and that, as He said, they were to be for signs and wonders in Israel. So that the question is now how it applies, and whether it is going to be workable, and affect us at this very minute.
Ques Does the scripture referring to the children indicate of what origin they are, and to what system they belong?
JT Well, I think that is good, but the Lord according to Isaiah would take on many things; for we read, “His name is called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace”. Isaiah reminds us thus of what can be applied, and how easily the Lord can move from one point to another, but always having the saints in mind; He said, “My disciples”; there were eleven of them. They were the nucleus from which things would be worked out, and they are never lost sight of. You go through the gospels and they are never lost sight of, nor are they ever lost sight of in the Acts or in the epistles.
Ques What is suggested in the thought of abiding in Christ?
JT [p. 381] I suppose it is astronomical in the sense that the word in sometimes implies a position dependent on some other body. It is some heavenly body, or whatever it may be, everything being made contingent on its relation to another body; and of course what is in mind in John, is that the Lord is everything. You must begin with Him, you must not work up to Him, for He is the beginning of everything. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... . In him was life, and the life was the light of men” and so forth. We must begin with Him, and so we are here now in this chapter beginning with Him as the Vine. Hence abiding in Him would mean the attitude of your mind is that you are fixed in Him. It implies a certain fixity of position in which we keep ourselves.
Ques Would it correspond to headship in Paul’s teaching?
JT I was thinking that, and how they work out, Paul and John together.
AMH There would be no philosophy and vain deceit if we were abiding in Him, would there?
RGC Is Mary an illustration of abiding in Him, sitting at His feet, and thus developing into a very intelligent sister?
JT Quite so. She saw the position. Martha did not, but Mary saw it and remained in it. If we did not have John’s account we would think very little of Martha; but John makes much of Martha, more than Luke does.
RRT Looking at the thought of “abide in me” as an attitude of mind would make way for “My words abide in you”, would it?
JT It shows that the mind is capable of being used, and that is what the apostle says of the Corinthians, “We have the mind of Christ”. It shows how workable the truth is, and how spiritual may [p. 382] be compared with spiritual. So that if such a figure as is represented in the idea of the vine is presented, the mind of the believer may be usable under those circumstances. The book of Acts shows how usable those can be with whom the Lord came in contact, and also those whom Peter was used to convert. Hence the word is they persevered in the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and prayers. These things open up what we are usable in.
EB Would that answer to the thought of fruit? Is it one thing to understand the position that grace has given us in relation to Christ, but another that there should be the designed fruit of that? Would that result work out from our abiding in Christ?
JT Quite so, so the Lord is now dealing with intelligence in us, with persons who are intelligent. “I speak as to intelligent persons” is introduced in relation to the Lord’s supper.
JC-S So that spiritual facilities have been given that we may not remain unintelligent. Often it has been said, ‘If the affections are all right it does not matter much about intelligence’.
JT Which, of course, is a very ignorant remark, John says at the very outset that certain ones left John the baptist and followed Jesus. The Lord turns to them and says, “What seek ye?” And they say, “Rabbi, where abidest thou?” meaning that they were thinking of intelligence and One from whom they could learn. That is the start really of the whole position in John and we are all brought into it; hence the great place the Spirit has in John’s gospel and in John’s epistle, especially the word unction as applied to it, by which we know all things.
VP So that we become intelligent as we listen and hear the word of God ministered in the power of the Spirit.
JT Yes, we [p. 383] become intelligent.
RRT In view of what you are saying as to intelligence, the Lord says, “Ye shall ask what ye will and it shall come to pass to you”. Is that an indication that the Lord is addressing intelligent persons? He is looking on them as having some intelligence?
JT Quite so, and Matthew takes it up, applying it to “two of you”; two of the assembly. It says, “If two of you shall agree on the earth” and this is an earthly position — “concerning any matter, whatsoever it may be that they shall ask, it shall come to them from my Father who is in the heavens”. It is an earthly position but an earthly position as in relation to the assembly, for it is a question of “two of you”. So here “if ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will and it shall come to pass to you. In this is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit, and ye shall become disciples of mine”. So we get a clue now as to what the fruit means here. There is abiding in Him and “in this is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit, and ye shall become disciples of mine”. We become disciples through bearing fruit.
AMH Do you think verse 8 explains to what the asking in verse 7 refers? Does it suggest that they are considering for fruit for the Father?
JT Surely. “If ye abide in me, and my words”, — not “word” — “abide in you”; such persons will know what to ask for. The words would mean the truth in detail, whatever may arise, whatever circumstances may lead to, the Lord’s words would apply.
AMH In relation to fruit-bearing too, do you think?
JT Clearly. Then, the next thing is love, “As the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you; abide in my love. If ye shall keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love, as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love”. So that the question of love comes in now. And then it goes on, “I have spoken these things to you that my joy may be in you, and your joy be full. This is my commandment, that ye love one another, as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, that one should lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends if ye practise whatever I command you. I call you no longer bondmen, for the bondman does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things which I have heard of my Father I have made known to you. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and have set you that ye should go and that ye should bear fruit, and that your fruit should abide, that whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name he may give you. These things I command you, that ye love one another. If the world hate you, know that it has hated me before you. If ye were of the world, the world would love its own; but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, on account of this the world hates you”. So that the question of love comes in now and is put on a very high level in relation to the Father and the Son, but then they are brought into it.
ATS What is the difference of thought between abiding in Christ, and abiding in His love?
JT I suppose the position is laid hold of and it is understood that love is in the matter. How much can be said of such a position!
HWB Referring to verse 9, “As the Father has loved me, I also have loved you”, would that be in relation to the Lord’s manhood?
JT Quite, it was what He was here, it is what could be seen in Him, they are to learn from Him. “As the Father has loved me, I also have loved you: abide in my love”, and then the idea of commandments [p. 385] is brought into the position. That is to say, the idea of obedience must be there. He says, “If ye shall keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love, as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love”. So that we can see how great a place love has, and we are gradually lifted up, the level is becoming higher. So as He said in verse 11, “I have spoken these things to you that my joy may be in you, and your joy be full”. One often challenges oneself as to joy and how little we have of it, and how little one has of it. “That your joy be full”. There is much in the world to distress us and press us down, but the Lord would keep us afloat, as it were.
JC-S So that, as we draw upon the resources here, there would be a buoyancy about us; we would not be overcome by the things we meet here.
JT That is just the point that often comes to one, that one is not buoyant, that we are so easily overcome by very little things, trifles sometimes; but the Lord would begin with Himself so as to bring us into His state of things, His own conditions so that our joy might be full.
Ques Subjection and love and joy all seem to be connected here, do they not?
JT They do. I have been struck by that as to how we rise, how the Lord would lead us up from the earth into heavenly things. John’s gospel is not so much to bring in the form of things but the spirit of things, and heavenly things. That is what the Lord has clearly in mind here, beginning with verse 9. So in verse 11 He says, “I have spoken these things to you that my joy may be in you, and your joy be full”. How marvellous these things are, and yet they are within our very range!
RGC What is the thought of “my joy”?
JT What is the thought of Christ’s joy? Well, for that we have to get into touch with Him, there [p. 386] is such a thing as getting into touch with the Lord and seeing how He lives, what circumstances He is living in. John would help us to get into touch with the Lord, so as to lay hold of the state He is in, so to speak, being reverent. There is a state there that we can reach, that is open to us.
Ques He has no joy in what is going on in the world, has lie?
JT Well, quite so.
JC-S So that His realm would afford us the gratification of every divinely produced feeling.
EB Is the thought suggested in Romans 6: 10, “In that he lives, he lives to God”? Does that describe the Lord’s present living conditions, might we say?
JT Quite so.
MB The apostle speaks in Hebrews of the “joy lying before him”. Was it all included in His thoughts?
JT Things have to be dealt with, each by itself. It is marvellous, but we are dealing with infinitude, so we cannot just say that this is that, and that that is this. We are dealing with infinitude, and all in Christ, so that it is touchable and reachable and we are capable of laying hold of it, because we are born again and brought into spiritual things, made spiritual and then there is the work of the Spirit in us. As we receive Him as the unction, we know all things, so that we come gradually into the greatness of things, into infinitude you might say. In Ephesians we read of “the breadth and length and depth and height”. These are creature limitations; but then it says, “and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge; that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God”. There we touch infinitude.
RHC Is the fruit of the vine peculiarly connected with [p. 387] joy?
JT Yes; I think the Lord would speak to us about joy, and about peace too, “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you”. Notice the word is “I give unto you”. Philippians would help us on these lines from Paul’s angle. “Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are noble, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure ... whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue and if any praise, think on these things ... and the God of peace shall be with you”; so we are brought into things, they are available to us.
MB The Lord would bring us into those things in this particular intimacy with Himself as friends, would He? He brings us into it by sharing it with us.
JT Sharing it with us; that is good.
RRT Do you think that those two in the early part of the gospel that followed Him and abode with Him that day, were let into the secret of this joy?
JT Quite so. “They abode with him that day”. We could hardly say that He invited them, it is rather the outcome of the state, the circumstances, that they abode with Him that day. And then we are told what time of day it was. I suppose it is Roman time; anyway it shows us how things are brought down to practical everyday affairs, and that we are living in them.
Ques Do you think that part of the joy would be in loving one another? It is placed on a high level, “as I have loved you”.
JT Higher and higher yet; that is the thing. Still we begin at the bottom, we begin with the earth, but not the earth in a moral sense, for that would lead to what is devilish, as James says, but what God has made, the earth itself, “The earth is Jehovah’s, and the fulness thereof”. It is within the range of these operations, just as the work in Genesis 1 is called the expanse, something that God added [p. 388] to what He had at the beginning. This is something that would touch the earth and yet touch infinitude above. “God called the expanse Heavens”, It is not said to be good in the sense that the others are, and yet it is included in the general thought of what was called good in the present creation, but it extends up to God and then comes down to where we are. The created heavens are in mind and the air and so forth, indicating that God has a sphere of operations, He has added this great idea of a sphere of operations, and we are included in that. The devil comes into that sphere, which is very solemn, so that we keep ourselves from him.
AMH That is why you pointed out that God does not call it good in totality. It depends upon what comes into it. There is His own work, also Satan’s work.
JT There is a mixture, and we know it is so. The term mixed condition has been used in earlier days; that is, as to what is actually down here, and what can be separated, or segregated so that God has things for Himself as He pleases. Satan has not the upper hand. How he got into heaven we have to leave, but he did get in, and God accepts that, and has an angel to deal with it, called Michael, an archangel.
EB It is very solemn that Satan apparently got into heaven on the very opposite principle to that of keeping commandments, and subjection, for he says, “I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High”, Isaiah 14: 14.
JT Very good. Still, he will be ousted, because the Lord says, “The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me” (John 14: 30); and again, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven”, Luke 10: 18.
EBMcC Would you say this position of abiding in Christ can be intelligently [p. 389] held?
JT Quite so. It can be held, because it is not simply that the Lord is holding us; from this point of view it is a question of our being in it, abiding in it. We are selected and we are held there.
FS What is the thought in verse 13 in relation to the laying down of His life?
JT “No one has greater love than this, that one should lay down his life for his friends”. The Lord is aiming at impressing us with the fact that we are His friends, and that He is laying down His life for His friends.
JC-S It is the love that does it. It could not be exceeded.
JT Quite so.
Ques Does it give a kind of direction to the commandment in verse 12?
JT “This is my commandment, that ye love one another, as I have loved you”?
Rem Yes. It shows how love works out, as it has worked out in Himself.
JT Yes. It is the directing that you spoke of. The Lord gives direction. He indicates “as I have loved you”, that is how things become intelligible to us; that love is in Christ; it is as He has loved us.
JC-S Is that to be the standard in our hearts?
JT That is what I would think. “As I have loved you”.
AMH Is the thought of His death here as laying down His life for His friends, to put it on the highest elevation before us as beyond the thought of meeting responsibilities so that we will be entirely in liberty before Him, especially as He goes on to speak of having chosen us? I was thinking of Joseph in saying to his brethren, “Be not grieved ... for God sent me before you”. That was to relieve them from being occupied with the way they had brought about the position. This is putting a different position before us. I was thinking of the [p. 390] Supper. We are not occupied there with His dying for our sins and meeting responsibilities. Would this not more apply, that He laid down His life for us as His friends?
JT It brings us on to the ground really of mutual feelings. After the introduction of the Lord’s supper, they sang a hymn and went to the mount of Olives. That is to say there was mutual feeling. It does not say that He sang the hymn. It does not say who led the singing; it says that they did it. So that we are in the realm of, you might say, satisfied desire, we are set free. We have been set free in freedom. That would include, I suppose, what we shall have eternally. So He goes on to say in verse 16, “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and have set you that ye should go and that ye should bear fruit, and that your fruit should abide, that whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name he may give you”. Then the idea of love comes in again. “These things I command you, that ye love one another”. Perhaps the most difficult thing is to love one another.
AMH There is that which often passes as love which is not distinctly divine in its origin. Love must be divine in its origin, must it not? It must be governed by what God is Himself.
JT “Hereby we have known love, because he has laid down His life for us”. It was not known before.
VNP You were speaking of that character of love marking us. John in his epistle speaks of the importance of laying down our lives for the brethren.
JT Quite so.
Ques Would this involve our considering, in regard to any matter, how it would affect the question of love among ourselves?
JT You are indiscriminate — it is “love amongst yourselves”, so that the question often arises as we [p. 391] assemble together, of whom do we think first? I would say the brethren first. They are the ones we are immediately in direct touch with.
AMH Mr. Raven used to say to brothers who said they came to meet the Lord, ‘You will not meet the Lord, if you do not meet the brethren first’. They were a little independent, I suppose.
Ques Would you say our relations with one another are basic, and if we are not happily set together we cannot proceed to higher things?
JT We cannot move on. The Lord would say that. Matthew would tell you what to do if your brother has aught against you; that is, to go and be reconciled to him first, and then offer your offering. You cannot have any part in the service of God unless you are reconciled to the brethren; if there is anything out of joint the matter must be settled.
JC-S So that as we come together in assembly, the Lord would, so to speak, stand by and give us an opportunity to embrace one another before we embrace Him?
JT He would. He would say, I would like to see you do this among yourselves. See how you get together, and therefore the Lord is not there really immediately at first. It is we who come together. The disciples come together. “We being assembled”, Luke says, “to break bread”, Acts 20: 7. That is the first thing. The Lord is ready to be there with us, but only as conditions are made attractive to Him.
RRT Would it be right to say of verse 12 where it says, “This is my commandment, that ye love one another, as I have loved you”, that this is a statement of the light of the position; that is “my commandment”? In verse 17 it goes further, “These things I command you, that ye love one another”. Having the light of the position, it becomes imperative that we should act in that [p. 392] light.
JT The Lord having recourse to the idea of commandment? Why not? He has the right to command and He is just using it to bring in love among ourselves. “By this shall all know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves”, not ‘love to Me’ there, but “love amongst yourselves”.
LM Would the Lord’s commandment as to loving one another enter into what we ask the Father?
JT Yes. The Lord would encourage that, I am sure, and His Father also, that the brethren should love one another.
AMH I would like to know as to fruit. Has it two bearings, one as something for the Father’s pleasure, and the other as it works out amongst us and becomes testimony to men? That is to say, that the Father is the Cultivator of the vine, which would mean that He is looking for something for His own heart. Then on the other hand, they become disciples by bearing much fruit. Would that be something more public as men see it?
JT Just so.
Ques The Lord has not commanded us to do something that we cannot do, has He? He tells us to love one another. It is a thing we can do.
JT Yes. We are capable of doing it. We are born again, that is the basis of it. This involves a new kind of state for we are born throughout; and then the Spirit coming in on the ground of redemption is the power for everything. So that we have established down here what is equal to what is in heaven.
EB And has the expression, “one another”, the idea in it of being indiscriminate? I think you used that word; that is, not partial.
JT Quite so, one another. Whether it is a question of colour or of status of life or education,
[p. 393] whatever might be mentioned, it is covered by the idea of one another. Love one another.
Rem So that natural affinities do not enter into it.
JT No. It is a question of what is effected in us; the basis is new birth. That is the point in John 3. The Lord did not trust the many that were affected by His signs and His works. There must be the new birth. “Except any one be born anew he cannot see the kingdom of God”. He cannot. But then as entering into it, he is already in the sphere of divine operations, as we have been saying, the expanse, which is suggestive of a very wide area, but still it is not too wide for God. It is where He is operating. The new birth brings us into it.
RHC Would John’s reference in the epistle bear upon it, “every one that loves him that has begotten loves also him that is begotten of him”?
JT Very good. John in the epistle, I suppose, is breaking up the truth of the gospel. He is bringing it down to us in the most immediate way.
GG Have we certain obligations to love the brethren? “We also ought to love one another”, John 4: 11.
JT Obligation is a good word.
EB Does it the more exist because we are surrounded by a system of hatred, the product of satanic operations, I suppose?
JT Terrible thought. And yet we are enabled to go on in spite of it. That is the great thought you get especially in John’s writings; it means going on in spite of the system of hatred. Love has been introduced in Christ, love unto death.
ET There will be an increased need for loving one another in view of the hatred increasing.
JT Just so. Then the idea of loving one another is augmented greatly by the fact that the brethren generally are lovable. They are lovable people.
[p. 394] One has been impressed with that, coming from the northern regions and making contact with what God has in Great Britain, what God has in Africa, what God has in Australia, what God has here. How lovable the work of God causes people to be!
Rem I think you have said elsewhere that as one is increased in the capacity to love, so one becomes lovable.
JT Quite so. I think that brings out what heaven will be; it is infinite in the bearing of it, the constant attractiveness in every one present.
WS “We love him because he has first loved us”.
JT He set the thing going. To say a word as to the Spirit in the passage would perhaps give a sort of finish to what we have before us. Verse 26 says, “When the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes forth from with the Father, he shall bear witness concerning me; and ye too bear witness, because ye are with me from the beginning”. That is to say the Spirit is brought in here as bearing witness. He is called the Comforter, which is a word occurring in chapter 14. It is a very strong word, a very powerful word as entering into the realm of which we are speaking. The Comforter on earth is equal to what is in heaven. “When the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father”. The word “from the Father” there is evidently, according to what we learn elsewhere, “from with the Father”. It is a question of the condition that is there, the relations between the Father and the Spirit, how Christ is a theme between Them. So that “when the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes forth from with the Father, he shall bear witness concerning me”. That is to say, the Spirit comes out from the Father, that wonderful sphere in which the Father and the Spirit both operate,
[p. 395] and the theme of Both is Christ. And then the brethren themselves, the disciples, are also witnesses alongside the blessed Spirit; and all bearing testimony to Christ.
MB Is the testimony as to what came out in Him here? Does that answer the question as to the fruit being first for the Father, and then for witness to men?
JT Yes. It is what proceeded between the Father and the Spirit that is in mind in what is said here in the verses read regarding the Comforter; and that also enters into the position of the disciples, the eleven, they bore witness too, because they had been with Him from the beginning; that is to say, they were witnesses of everything that came out in Him. As the Spirit was witness to what is in heaven, they were witnesses here on earth, because Christ had come to earth, He was in their very midst. So he said, “Ye too (the”Ye”is emphatic) bear witness, because ye are with me from the beginning”, so that they are constituted witnesses alongside of the Spirit, showing the nearness of what is of the assembly to the divine Persons.
FS So is the truth a living thing, then?
JT Quite so, it is in living persons. “When the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father”. The Spirit is here called “the Spirit of truth” — a very strong expression.