NEARNESS TO CHRIST AND PUBLIC SERVICE (9)
[p. 287] NEARNESS TO CHRIST AND PUBLIC SERVICE (9)
JT As we have had Christ’s love for us emphasised in chapter 13, so our love for Him is more evident in this chapter. Perhaps we might dwell on this side tonight. His love for us, and our love for one another, occupied us in chapter 13. There are two thoughts in the psalm we have already dwelt upon (Psalm 133); one refers to what is personal, and the other is magnificence. The psalm says that unity is “like the precious oil upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, upon Aaron’s beard, that ran down to the hem of his garments”. Then, “As the dew of Hermon that descendeth on the mountains of Zion”. There is what is personal, tracing it in Christ; the oil on His head, coming down on the beard, then down to “the hem of his garments”. On the other hand there is the largeness and grandness of it, as depicted in mount Hermon, and the mountains of Zion.
These things enter into these chapters. They refer to the Spirit come down to His own, from Him in heaven. The Spirit is given to us, is here with us, and affords a means for the Father and the Son to come to us. Whilst chapter 13 emphasises Christ’s love to us and our love to one another, chapter 14 challenges us as to our love for Christ; so that it says, “If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter”. The Comforter is here, not coming as Christ came in, but in relation to a state formed — “if ye love me”.
Ques So that the Holy Spirit is spoken of as the Comforter in relation to that state, you mean?
[p. 288] JT Yes; for aside from the state of love for Christ, the Comforter would hardly be welcomed, there would be no felt need of Him; it is the absence of Christ, the absence of One whom we love, that inspires the thought of the need of another Comforter.
Ques While the commandment to love one another is in chapter 13, would it rise higher in chapter 14?
JT I think so. You have descending love in chapter 13, then horizontal love, that is, love to one another; then ascending love in chapter 14, that is, love for Christ.
GRG I suppose that when the disciples were all gathered together, when the Holy Spirit came, they were there as in affection for Christ.
JT That was what marked them. They saw Him go up; that is not given prominence so much at the end of Luke, although there He is carried up into heaven. In the beginning of the Acts, they saw Him go up, and “a cloud received him out of their sight” (verse 9), that is, the faith era begins as He is taken out of their sight. Now it is a question of faith, which corresponds with the first part of this chapter. “Ye believe on God, believe also on me”. (verse 1). Those that saw Him go up, it says, returned to the city, and were in the upper room, where were the apostles, and the mother of the Lord and other women — every evidence of love for Christ. And, moreover, they were governed by His commandments (at least by the Scriptures) in the selection of an apostle. There was every care that all should be according to the mind of the Lord, that man’s will should not rule in the selection of an apostle; he was to be one who had been with them during all the time that the Lord Jesus had gone in and out amongst them, from the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up — meaning that they were jealous to have one who was conversant with the Lord, as to how He went in and out among them, from the beginning to the end of His ministry. And [p. 289] they prayed, and cited the Scriptures, and placed the whole matter in the hands of the Lord — the lot. Then it says, “they were all together in one place” — they were all there, showing that there was no negligence or indifference about them.
GRG His going in and out amongst them no doubt had touched their hearts — the love for them He had manifested.
JT Yes; they had become accustomed to His ways, I suppose, and would imitate Him; that was the idea; they had learned how to move and act as He did.
Ques Would that be the thought of the commandment, learning to move as He did?
JT Yes; I think so. All that He commanded and said was in keeping with what He was, altogether that which He said. Then it says they were all together in one place, reminding us of the importance of not absenting ourselves from such occasions, for if we do we may miss the greatest events, the greatest privileges. All the facts in Acts 1 and 2 proved that they had answered to these instructions, they loved the Lord and kept His commandments, hence they “received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit”, which He had shed forth, as Peter said.
Ques Was the cloud removed in the stoning of Stephen? He sees “the glory of God, and Jesus” (Acts 7:55) — there is no cloud there.
JT The heavens are opened to him, you mean. That alludes, I think, to the faith period, in which things are fully realised. Up to that time the cloud remained, that is to say, the Jewish system was not yet set aside; whilst God bore with it patiently, the full light of the dispensation had not shone. “A cloud received him” — the faith period thus began, but it is after the death of Stephen that the full light of the dispensation shines. Stephen seeing Him alludes to the power of the Spirit in us enabling us to [p. 290] see Jesus in a spiritual way. Earlier He was hid, as we may say. Peter says, “Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things”, (Acts 3:21) but now “we see Jesus ... crowned with glory and honour” (Hebrews 2:9); like Stephen, we look at the glory of the Lord.
Rem ‘The Spirit’s power has ope’d the heavenly door’, as the hymn says (74:5).
JT That is it, exactly. Whilst the old system remained, the cloud period remained; even while the Lord was on the mount of transfiguration, the cloud was there, only it was a bright one.
GM He speaks of the Spirit here as the Comforter; in the beginning of the chapter He says, “Let not your heart be troubled”. What is the force of a Comforter?
JT I think it assumes that we love the Lord; it is “another Comforter”; they had already One whom they had learned to love. Think of all that shone in Christ during the time He came in and went out amongst them! What feelings would arise as it dawned upon them what love lay beneath all His movements!
Ques Does it suggest that we should miss Him, and that the Spirit should take His place?
JT That is the idea. They had lost the One they had learnt to love, and He would be a Comforter in every way. The word signifies, as most of us know, that He should take care of our affairs; not one matter of mine is overlooked by the ‘Paraclete’. Some of us move about amongst the saints and are occupied with a little ministry; but think of the greatness of the Spirit in occupying Himself with all the affairs of the saints! The Lord when here could even take up the matter of Martha and Mary, and many other such matters. A woman came to Him with two of her sons, and said, “Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the [p. 291] other on the left, in thy kingdom”. Well, the Lord did not put her aside as unworthy of attention. He opened up to her the facts of the case, and said, “Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of?” and they said, “We are able”. Think of those two young men saying that! How much they undertook! And the mother standing by them! But the Lord does not ridicule them; He goes into the whole matter so as to adjust them. He was not arbitrary; He takes a very low place and says, It “is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father”. Doubtless the matter was settled in their souls, so that they would never come with such a request again. Then the ten, having heard about this, were indignant with the two brothers; they acted as brothers in the flesh, which was a very insidious thing, and the ten were indignant; there was a party, ten on one side and two on the other — and the Lord adjusted that, too; (Matthew 20).
Ques We should learn that in a company, I suppose?
JT Well, you come to see the Lord as He was here, how He took up matters with His people, leaving nothing unadjusted. Now He is going away, that is the basis of these chapters, He is leaving them, what are they going to do without Him? He encourages their hearts as to His love, that they could rely upon it, but they must have the same kind of love themselves. Then He says, “Let not your heart be troubled”; He prepares them for His absence. It was to be a faith period now — “Ye believe on God, believe also on me”. But then, although having faith, they would be very wanting without an actual Comforter, another One who would take up the service that the Lord had exercised; so that now He challenges their hearts as to their love for Him, evidenced by their keeping His commandments; and He would beg the Father, and He would give them [p. 292] another Comforter. We learn here that the Holy Spirit is not given save as wished for or needed; there is a felt need before He is given.
Rem What the Lord did when He was here, the Comforter would now do.
Rem In the first part of the chapter we have the Lord comforting them — what He proposes to do unconditionally; but what we are looking at now is dependent on an ‘if’, or what they should be as to their affections for Him.
JT Yes; the Holy Spirit comes in here in answer to a felt need, He does not come voluntarily, but as begged of the Father. We may treat Him lightly, but we must remember all this precedes the giving of the Spirit.
GRC Do you mean that if we have a felt need in our souls the Holy Spirit responds to it?
JT That is, I think, what is to be learnt from this. You feel the need of a Comforter. You meet with brethren who when trouble arises amongst us never seem to get it settled. Well, if one goes to court without an advocate, one makes a very poor hand of it. The advocate knows what to do, and the reason of the long uncertainty in matters is that the Paraclete is not employed, so to speak — you do not make room for Him.
JM-n Do you mean the Comforter might be with the brethren in regard to this adjustment?
JT Yes. Although He has not become incarnate, the Spirit acts in the church; hence He says, “Separate me Barnabas and Saul” (Acts 13:2); we are not told how He said it to the brethren, but it must have been through some person He employed. “He abides with you” — if we make room for Him, He adjusts matters for us, and we are certain as to the adjustment. Of course there are many other blessed services He renders, but this is specially important.
[p. 293] Rem As you say, all the uncertainty is caused by the Spirit of God not having adjusted us.
JT That is what I thought, for it is from the standpoint here of a Paraclete, One who is personally here, and capable of taking up all our affairs.
WH Would that be seen in Acts 15:28, where a question came up at Antioch, and they say, “It has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us”?
JT That is a very good example of it; there was a wise adjustment there.
JM-n Does He do it in relation to the Head?
JT I am sure He does. As He hears, He speaks; so that there is perfect consonance between the Holy Spirit in His service here, and Christ. Hence, we have in the chapter, distinct parts, the first referring to what the Lord does; as going away, of Himself, He acts for us. All is to be, however, on the principle of faith — “Ye believe on God, believe also on me”. He sets out by assuring us that our hearts should not be troubled, that nothing would be left undone for us on high. He has gone up there; in His Father’s house are many mansions, and He would have told us if it were not so, and He will come again to receive us to Himself. That is the first part. The second part is contingent on our love for Him.
Rem In what a blessed way the Lord, in those first few verses, brings in the assurance of His love before He says, “If ye love me, keep my commandments”.
JT How worthy He is of it! It was not only what they would be here, but what He would do for them there.
Rem He does not exactly command us to love Him; there is no need for it.
JT No; the commandment is to love one another. Going away and being at a distance from those we love is a test; how easily things slip out of our minds! But with Christ, although going into [p. 294] such glory and honour, and a scene of such interest, He never loses sight for a moment of His saints on earth.
Rem What myriads Christ has had in His mind ever since! Would you say that the saints are His only interest on earth, at present?
JT Yes; I think that may be said. He has potentially, of course, immense interests, but He is not occupied with them actively, for the moment. Think of what He is up there! Think of the reception and honour — heaven opened and He carried into it, angels and principalities and powers being made subject to Him! Yet there is not a bit of change, He is occupied with us, as ever. “Let not your heart be troubled” — notice the word ‘heart’ is in the singular, for it contemplates practical unity amongst us, a collective thought.
Ques Would this correspond in any way with Moses going up to the mount, and the way the people left below were tested by his absence?
JT Yes. They said, “As for this Moses ... we wot not what is become of him”, (Exodus 32:1); they did not “believe”, and became idolatrous.
Rem There was no other Comforter left behind.
JT There were Aaron and Hur, but they proved very poor. It is very humbling to think of Aaron — remarkable man as he was. Moses left him and Hur in charge, and the people said, “Make us gods, which shall go before us”; and then Aaron made the calf. He was a poor representative of Moses. But how different with our Comforter, the One who takes the place of Christ with us! how true He is! That shows the difference of the dispensation in which we are. It is perfect, inasmuch as the One below is in accord with the One above, and the One above is in accord with the One below. The Father, the Son, and the Spirit act in infinite unity. These chapters bring this out in the most striking and assuring way.
[p. 295] Ques Is that why He is called the Spirit of truth?
JT Yes; and hence the power of adjustment, He is the “Spirit of truth here”, and “the truth” in John’s epistle. He will not brook anything contrary to the truth.
Rem But we have to make room for Him.
JT That is what the Lord contemplates; the keeping of the commandments makes room for the Spirit.
Ques Are we to look to the Spirit at all? We look to the Lord.
JT He is the object of faith; but you recognise the Spirit, too, though not in the same sense, because He is here with us; He is not viewed so much objectively, as Christ is; but we read of the love of the Spirit and of the communion of the Spirit in the epistles; (Romans 15:30; 2 Corinthians 13:14). He is here as sent by the Father and the Son, and acts in relation to them, but He operates as a divine Person.
FWW You referred to what is in chapter 16:13, “For he shall not speak from himself” — is it just as if Christ were here? I was thinking of the Lord Himself here, seeking the glory of Him that sent Him.
JT Yes. What the Spirit hears from the Father and the Son, He speaks. These chapters show that He is sent from the Father and the Son, so He acts here in relation to God; you have a perfect system. In no way can you see the perfection of the system more than in the perfect agreement between the Advocate above (it is the same word here as in John’s epistle) and the Advocate below. Things are maintained in perfect agreement, and divine power is available in the service. These chapters are truly wonderful, as showing how the divine Persons are engaged in the maintenance of the saints and the testimony.
Ques Do we find earlier in this gospel [p. 296] the Son Himself in the same position with regard to the Father?
JT Exactly the same. He says He did nothing of Himself. Hence both the Son and the Spirit have taken the mediatorial position; the Father remains in the absoluteness of the Godhead, while they have taken up mediatorial service. The Lord says, “My Father is greater than I”. That means that He has taken a mediatorial position. All such statements refer to Him as in this position. Hence we need to be very guarded as to applying titles or designations, which refer to Him as Mediator, to Him as in the form of God.
Rem You said that the Spirit only comes to felt need.
JT Yes; His coming depends on a state of things here. Of course, it depends on the work and the ascension of Christ, for it says, “the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified”, (John 7:39). But then this passage does not say anything about that, it is a question of the state of your heart and mine. Do we love Christ? It is futile to speak of the Holy Spirit being with us apart from love for Christ — it is only a theory.
Rem Love for Christ must give Christ the first place in my heart, and the Spirit will always support that.
JT Yes; and then the commandment makes room for His action — “If ye love me, keep my commandments”.
Rem You feel the need of someone to sustain you in divine things, for you cannot sustain yourself.
JT No. Then He says, “I will beg the Father”, showing that it was, so to speak, not easy. We must not think the coming in of the Spirit was costless. We see in the type of the gift of the Spirit (Exodus 17) that the rock had to be smitten. It cost the Lord His death that the Spirit should come here. Peter says,
“[p. 297] Having ... been exalted by the right hand of God, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:33); but here it says He “begs” for Him.
HB Does His saying, “I will come to you”, refer to the company?
JT In verses 15 - 20 the allusion is, I think, to the early days when things were normal.
Ques Is the reward (verses 21 - 23) greater for the individual?
JT Well, the passage shows we lose nothing in this respect, in a day of small things. We have what they had at the beginning. It is very precious that, under the conditions mentioned, the Father and the Son come to the believer.
Ques The former passage is connected with early days, you say, but you would not confine it to early days?
JT Well, we have the light of it now; it bears on us, but I think the position now is set forth in verses 21 to 23 — they govern our position now.
Ques One would like to be clear as to that verse, “I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you” — does He not come to us?
JT The setting of it relates to the beginning of church history. Verse 21 covers our position, I think, and may be connected with Matthew 18, where you find a like division. First, there is the church: “but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican”; and the Lord adds, “Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven”. Then He says, “Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree”. It seems to me that this passage helpfully compares with the chapter we are considering; the first part corresponding with the church as intact, the collective side; and the second relating to a broken state of things, when two are regarded as acting on church ground — in John 14 [p. 298] only one. So I think that Matthew and John may be compared and acted upon intelligently. “Two of you”. To the one He manifests Himself, and the Father and the Son come; but in Matthew we have two agreeing on earth as to anything they should ask: “it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven”; and “where two or three”, He says, “are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them”. Here it is all to one person.
Ques Is that why we get, “At that day”, and then, in verse 21, His commandments; and then, in answer to Judas’ question, the Lord says, “If a man love me, he will keep my words”?
JT Keeping His commandments makes room for the Spirit, in that it takes me out of evil associations, and keeps me out of them; but the keeping of the word makes room for the Spirit to open up the truth. The commandment takes me out of the evil, but the word is the mind of God.
Ques Is that why Philadelphia comes in — “Thou ... hast kept my word” (Revelation 3:8)?
JT Quite so, the word implies tabernacle conditions. The mind of God is so opened up that there are tabernacle or dwelling conditions; the Father and the Son can make their abode with such an one. You may connect that helpfully with Matthew 18; you may get two like this, or more, but you never assume church ground outwardly — though you may do so in faith, as embracing the whole as before God, but you never do it publicly. If you are keeping His commandments, you cannot go on with evil. It is very important to recognise that the commandment makes room for the Spirit, but the word opens up the mind of God and makes room for the Father and the Son.
Ques Would you say that is additional to the Spirit? What is formed in us would keep the commandment, and the word, too.
JT [p. 299] The word is most interesting, inasmuch as it makes room for the Father and the Son.
Ques Would you say a word as to the Spirit? What is the distinction between His abiding with them, and being in them?
JT I suppose He was there in Christ, while Christ was there; but the new way He should be there would be in them. Both features of His presence are true now. He abides with us and in us.
Ques Is the indwelling Spirit the present gain in christianity? In the Old Testament the Spirit came upon people; is the indwelling peculiar to christianity?
JT I think it is; I do not think they will have it in this way in the millennium. The prophet Joel announced that it should come upon them; (chapter 2:28). “In you” is peculiar, I think, to the church.
HB-t Is there no collective position which we could take up and claim that, “I will not leave you orphans”?
JT It is like any other truth; it is there as a principle, but it is not right to assume that it is so actually, as they could have done at the beginning, because of the breakdown. Verse 21 opens up things to you from the individual side; you get manifestations of Christ by keeping His commandments. In verse 23 you make tabernacle conditions by keeping the word, but then Matthew enables you to bring others into that, “two or three”; both these things hold good.
HB-t You do not get it by having a meeting in your locality in the ‘list’!
JT No. The basis is, loving Christ and keeping His commandments — that is the basis for the last days; any individual doing that would really be on church ground. Collective privilege, I am sure, is realised, and Matthew may be rightly connected with this, but we do not assume it publicly.
[p. 300] Rem But, as in verse 18, what we look for when we are convened is the Lord’s presence.
JT It is right to keep it before us, as a principle that the Lord graciously recognises, but I believe it applies primarily to normal conditions — when things were right as a whole. I think the presence of the Spirit underlies the Lord’s coming in either case. In Old Testament times, Jehovah came in through angelic means; in our times it is not that — angels minister, of course, but they are not the vehicles of divine manifestation. It is the Spirit, no less a Person than the Spirit.
Ques Do you not think we are often very unbelieving as to the presence of the Holy Spirit?
JT I am sure we are. He is a real Person here as much as Christ was; as the Lord goes on to say afterwards, “These things I have said to you, abiding with you; but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and will bring to your remembrance all the things which I have said to you”. You see what a service there was in the presence of the Comforter whom the Father sent in His name; this latter fact shows how the Father honoured the Son in sending Him. First, the Son asked for Him, then the Father sent Him in His name. The Spirit would not leave a thought of Christ that He gave expression to in abeyance, He would bring all back to their remembrance, for they were like ourselves, and we know how we forget things. But the Holy Spirit does not forget things; He knows how to bring them to our remembrance.
Ques What do you mean by not taking the position publicly?
JT Well, it would be out of keeping with the Lord’s mind if we should assume to be the collective thing; it would not be according to the truth. We are on individual lines now, in the public aspect;
[p. 301] but after all, the principles hold — they are always workable; and the “two or three” of Matthew answers to our position. But if we lose sight of the whole church, failing to own the dreadful breakdown, we shall be only a sect, and we shall not have the Lord.
Ques You would not say there is no public testimony now?
JT Not at all, but we want to have things on the right ground, and to be humble and seemly about them.
Ques Would this help you as to 2 Timothy 2?
JT Yes, I think this scripture and that synchronise; that is how you come to this. Paul says, “Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity” (verse 19); that is keeping His commandment, as loving Christ.
Ques Would these be moral conditions: “He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them” — then when we come together the Spirit would be free, in that sort of company, to bring these heavenly things to our remembrance?
JT Quite. As has been pointed out, 2 Timothy is the direct word for our days, and that is what the Lord alludes to here.
Ques In connection with that, would you speak of “that day”, in verse 20, as specially for the day of small things?
JT No; it refers to the day in which the Spirit would be here. It reads, “In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you”. That is, it would be the day of the Spirit — they would have intelligence, by the Spirit, of the place He had with the Father, and the place they had with Him in His affections, and that He was in their affections. It is like Colossians and Ephesians. Ephesians is that we are in Him, raised up and made to sit down together in Him; Colossians is that He is in us. These [p. 302] are the two sides, I think, but all hinges on the Spirit; we know these things by the Spirit.
Ques Would you say that that verse really refers to the time before the breakdown took place?
JT Yes; it refers to the day of the Spirit.
Ques In verse 21 it says, “He that has my commandments and keeps them”, does that contemplate a day when the commandments were lost?
JT Yes; verse 21 contemplates a day when the commandments were disregarded generally, and the one who has the commandments and keeps them loves the Lord, that is to say, one who moves in the light of 1 and 2 Corinthians, and 1 and 2 Timothy. He is not saying it merely, he shows he loves the Lord by keeping His commandments.