FEATURES OF THE ASSEMBLY (4)
[p. 268] FEATURES OF THE ASSEMBLY (4)
Matthew 17:1-9; Matthew 17:24-27; Matthew 18:15 - 20
JT I thought we should look at the passage in chapter 17, the mount of transfiguration, and then the reference to sonship at the end of that chapter, and then at chapter 18, having in mind an example of the assembly as functioning. The reference is to verse 17: “But if he will not listen to them, tell it to the assembly; and if also he will not listen to the assembly, let him be to thee as one of the nations and a tax-gatherer”. Then again, “Whatsoever [p. 288] ye shall bind on the earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on the earth shall be loosed in heaven”. The allusion is to the assembly functioning or acting in administration, of which we have or should have much in our gatherings.
EGMcA Do you connect the transfiguration with the carrying out of this function in chapter 18 and the glory of the thing?
JT I thought the passage helps us as to the assembly in this light; the glory of it; and then the second passage read in chapter 17 is relative to sonship. That is an important element in the function of the assembly, that we are to act in the light of our being sons. These passages are just suggested, because it is thought that they are contributory to the main thought now; that is, in chapter 18, where the assembly is actually seen as serving or acting here on earth as representative of heaven.
EGMcA This morning we had the treasure hid in the field — the treasure and the pearl — we had the inside statement of what the assembly is to Christ, and the service rendered to secure it. Now, is it more the function of the assembly in connection with what we know internally and the glory that is to be seen in [p. 269] the functioning?
JT I think we shall see the great pleasure that the Lord has at a time like this. There is a certain likeness in Adam’s position in Genesis 2; what pleasure God had in him as functioning according to the wisdom he had. So that it is said, “And ... . Jehovah Elohim ... brought them to Man, to see what he would call them” Genesis 2:19. The comparison that we are making is with what the Lord finds in the assembly in its service, in its functioning here; earlier allusion was made to the pearl, what pleasure He had in it, and the treasure too; whatever the treasure was, it affords joy to the Lord. The comparison that is being made is in verse 15 of Genesis 2, “And Jehovah Elohim took Man, and put him into the garden of Eden, to till it and to guard it” Genesis 2:15. And in verse 18 it says, “And Jehovah Elohim said, It is not good that Man should be alone; I will make him a help-mate, his like” Genesis 2:18. And then, “And out of the ground Jehovah Elohim had formed every animal of the field and all fowl of the heavens, and brought them to Man, to see what he would call them” Genesis 2:19. What God was to see in Adam’s movements and words! as if God would find pleasure in what He could see and hear. “And whatever Man called each living soul, that was its name” Genesis 2:19. So, it seems to me that this enters into our subject this afternoon, that is to say, the subject of the assembly, the assembly actually functioning for the Lord here, what there is in it for Him.
CCT Then according to Scripture and the thought in Matthew 18, the movements that take place in the assembly would be recognised in heaven.
JT The Lord would be, as it were, looking on to see what would happen, and so He speaks of a fact that would illustrate what He had in His mind. He says, “But if he will not listen to them”. That is to say, we are now listening, as it were, to what this offender will do, a brother who offends. It is said, “But if thy brother sin against thee, go, reprove him between thee and him alone. If he hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother”. Therefore, the assembly does not need to come into it. “But if he do not hear thee, take with thee one or two besides, that every matter may stand upon the word of two witnesses or of three. But if he will not listen to them, tell it to the assembly”. So that now we have before us an action of the assembly speaking to an offending brother. It is a trespassing brother — what the assembly will do and how it is to determine what the brethren do; those who form the assembly; how they should be governed by it.
RWS Would it be in line to inquire if there is not a great deal of disparity in assembly administration as to the standards of it here and the concrete working out of it amongst us?
JT That is a good inquiry. I think we should just perhaps go into that matter now, only it is thought that the earlier verses read, that is, in chapter 17, ought to be before us so that we may be able to rightly judge, be in a right spirit to gauge what the assembly’s action may mean; and, therefore, the scene on the mount is surely intended to affect us as to dignity and glory. The very persons that are involved in chapter 18 are now seen above, and surely it is intended that they should be affected and when they come down know how to gauge aright what is said and done by the assembly. And then again in the end of chapter 17, this matter of sonship is not above; it is not seen above; it is seen in Capernaum, and it is a matter of taxes, of a certain tax that the Jews had to pay to the temple; and the Lord in taking this matter up waits until Peter came into the house before speaking of it, which is a characteristic idea in Matthew: that there is something in the house leading up to the assembly which gives liberty to the oracle; to whatever is in the [p. 271] nature of an oracle or an answer, which might be a divine answer to an inquiry. So there are two thoughts; that is, the mount of transfiguration, the mount of glory which is above where the Lord is honoured; the scene in which He is distinguished and honoured; and now below, where there is no such scene. It is a question of paying taxes, and hence the Lord waits until Peter comes into the house before He answers; and He raises this question with him as to the matter of sonship.
ASB You referred this morning to chapter 14 in relation to the feeding, that the Lord looked up into heaven in the first instance; in the second it is rather what is available by the Spirit on earth. So in chapter 16 in regard to revelation, the initial movement is from heaven and then the Lord joins in with that, and so here it is the heavenly side preceding the earthly side.
JT It is the heavenly side in the mount of transfiguration where Christ is honoured and glorified, and the earthly side in Capernaum where taxes are to be paid, and the question is raised as to who should pay them; whether the brethren are exempt in such cases or whether they may not or should not pay them rather than cause offence. The matter is trivial anyway, and it is a question of how the brethren may, in the dignity of the mount of transfiguration, be ready to adjust a small matter, the small claim that the government may put forth and meet it that way.
JRH Is it your thought that these two witnesses in chapter 18 would promote a sense of what is due to the Lord in our assembly functioning, and also the sense of dignity and association with Christ in our movements?
JT So that our care meetings, for instance, should be clothed or surrounded in our minds with dignity, so that in matters coming up we act in [p. 272] dignity; we act in the liberty of sonship, and hence preclude any narrowness or smallness or jealousy or the like; or any natural thoughts. We are, as it were, to overwhelm them with the greatness of our calling.
CAM It is a wonderful prayer: “Let thy will be done as in heaven so upon the earth” (Matthew 6:10). It would really involve this wonderful knowledge of the glory and it would also involve the assembly.
JT Just so. Hence the importance of bringing in the mount of transfiguration. You wonder why it is brought in just here. The Lord notified the disciples that it should come to pass. He says, “Verily I say unto you, There are some of those standing here that shall not taste of death at all until they shall have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom” (Matthew 16:28). That is, the Lord notifies His disciples that the thing would happen. Surely it was intended to bear on what had been said and bear anticipatively on what was about to be said; that is, the question of the taxes.
EGMcA Is that why it says, “Hear him” instead of ‘Look upon him’? It is not a question of the development of praise to Him but rather getting instruction from Him.
JT Just so; so that it is said, “While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them”, that is beautiful, “and lo, a voice out of the cloud, saying. This is my beloved Son”. This is to call attention to words. “This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight: hear him”. As you say, it is not ‘see him’ but “hear him”.
GMacPh Would that suggest His voice being heard in the assembly?
JT Quite so. We must expect to hear it.
CCT Would you say as the outcome of hearing the voice we do see Him, because a little later on it says, “And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus alone”? Would that be the guidance in assembly affairs in administration?
JT That is what we would expect down below in the care meeting. The Lord would say, I will not leave you. I am with you always, but in this sense, not as on the mount of transfiguration, but down here where the thing is to be dealt with, whatever it be. “Jesus alone with themselves”, is a great addition. There is no limit to what that may mean.
RWS Then you connect the lunatic and the Lord coming down and the teaching of His being delivered into the hands of men, and the customs and the matter of taxes — that all comes in here because of the glory on the mount.
JT Quite so. What men it makes out of us! Paul intensifies the thought in saying he was caught up as far as the third heaven and into paradise, and that he heard unspeakable things unlawful for man to utter. But when he came down here below there would be a danger of his being inflated by it; showing that while you are up there you are safe, but it is down here that the test comes; what we say in the care meetings.
Ques What is suggested in the cloud overshadowing them?
JT That would be the Father’s house, the divine abode, where the Father is. That would be the allusion. “Behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and lo, a voice out of the cloud”. Whose voice was that? The Father’s voice; so that you see the surroundings and the possibilities to fortify us against what is down in the valley. It is down in the valley that we are tested. And so we have these incidents. In verse 14 it says, “And when they came to the crowd, a man came to him, falling on his knees before him, and saying. Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is lunatic, and suffers sorely; for often he falls into the fire and often into the water. And I [p. 274] brought him to thy disciples, and they were not able to heal him” Matthew 17:14 - 16. So you see, we are exposed to criticism down in the valley, and how are we going to do? We are already fortified by the scene above, so the chapter here is to help us as to what to do in emergencies in the valley, and is augmented by the further thought in the end of the chapter where sonship comes into view. Sonship is not up there only. We are now children of God, but here it is sons. We are viewed as sons of God, and that is a relation that stands, but it is intended to help us when we have to deal with adverse things.
JMcK Do you see that coming out by the ministry being calculated to help us relative to the administrative side? I was thinking of how Peter was given that distinction; the keys of the kingdom, and in Acts 15 in regard to the circumcision of the nations, James comes in and supports him. As a result it says, “Then it seemed good to the apostles and to the elders, with the whole assembly, to send chosen men from among them with Paul and Barnabas to Antioch” Acts 15:22. Then we see Paul, relative to what you brought out in Revelation in connection with Babylon, “God has judged your judgment upon her”, Revelation 18:20, bringing in the mind of God.
JT What you have been saying is of great importance relative to the care meeting, and things that tend to irritate and provoke. We are to be in dignity in all things relative to the assembly. Peter came into the house.
JAP How do you account for the breakdown so quickly after Moses and the seventy elders of Israel were on the mount? There was breakdown in the valley. Moses had said, If any man has a matter let him bring it to Aaron and Hur, but there was breakdown.
JT It enters into what we are saying. How easily failure and breakdown may happen. The [p. 275] man here in the verses read who had a lunatic son says to the Lord, “Have mercy on my son, for he is lunatic, and suffers sorely; for often he falls into the fire and often into the water. And I brought him to thy disciples, and they were not able to heal him” Matthew 17:15,16. That is a challenge. Why are they not able? The Lord says, “O unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I bear with you?” Matthew 17:17. Now, who are the persons being addressed? Who is the generation? The Lord is not making a difference between his disciples who have been upon the mount and the ordinary man or person around. He says, “O unbelieving and perverted generation” Matthew 17:17. It might seem that the Lord was unreasonable, for there is no evidence, no great evidence that they had done anything out of the way. It is simply that they were unable to help the man, but it shows what testing there is in the valley; how something may come up to challenge us and irritate us and cause bad feeling.
CCT Is that why He allows this, to give them instruction? We are given the instruction as we go on.
JT You see these three brothers that were up there, how they can think and speak of what privileges they have been brought to; but what effect has it had on them? Can they do any better in the Lord’s work? Have they improved as disciples or apostles? I think the inference is there is no change, and the Lord has to say, “Bring him here to me” Matthew 17:17. But He does say that.
CAM That would imply there must be a new generation; and the new generation involves this matter of sonship.
JT The difference is not being made between the disciples and the crowd as hitherto.
SMcC I suppose, this salutary word is for us today. We have had what corresponds with the [p. 276] first part of chapter 17; the wonderful unfolding by the Lord in ministry of the greatness of things, and yet when it comes to administering we seem to break down so much. There is a word for that in this very section.
ABP Is there not failure on the mount, too?
JT There is. Quite so. But that had been adjusted in Peter, but he does not seem to have gained anything here in the way the Lord speaks of them all; as if nothing had been gained by the wonderful display of glory to which they had been admitted.
JK Does faith enter into this? “If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed” Matthew 17:20, it says.
JT Of course it does. And here the Lord says, “O unbelieving and perverted generation” Matthew 17:17. To whom is He alluding? It is a mixed number but clearly the disciples are there.
Ques Would the Lord’s rebuke of His disciples indicate they had dropped to the level of the crowd? Is not the transfiguration to check unbelief and give us a greater conception of the Lord’s glory?
JT It made a great difference to them, and yet the word ‘generation’ is applied too, as if the Lord has to class the Christian with the average person, not being able to make any distinction.
CCT There is movement on the part of the disciples afterwards. In verse 19 it says, “Then the disciples, coming to Jesus apart ...”Matthew 17:19. Is there a spirit of inquiry?
JT Very good; they come into evidence. “Then the disciples, coming to Jesus apart, said to him, Why were not we able to cast him out?” Matthew 17:19. They admit that they are not able; that they are wanting. So He says, “Because of your unbelief” Matthew 17:20. They were all classified under he same head: “Because of your unbelief” Matthew 17:20. How often it is that we are not any different [p. 277] from those around in matters. The Lord has to classify us with the others.
GMacPh That is because the state of unbelief has not been judged in us.
JT “Because of your unbelief” Matthew 17:20. Now the Lord is encouraging them as to what may come about if they are alert, and He says, “For verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say to this mountain, Be transported hence there, and it shall transport itself” Matthew 17:20. He does not say that to the crowd; it is to the disciples. He is distinguishing them now; before they had distinguished themselves in coming to Him. This is in the early part of the book. They came to the Lord on the mount in chapter 5. The Lord recognises that, and so here, “Ye shall say to this mountain, Be transported hence there, and it shall transport itself; and nothing shall be impossible to you” Matthew 17:20. All this goes with Matthew, for the Lord says later, “For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Chapter 18:20).
ABP Is that why in verse 1 it says “Jesus takes with him Peter, and James, and John his brother, and brings them up into a high mountain apart”? The power of this lies behind what is said as to the transporting. The lunatic, the father said, often falls into the fire and into the water. The transporting is a matter of power in relation to movement.
JT So that you can understand how the Lord would classify all alike, when there is a case of this kind; the disciples are no different; they cannot help the man and they are put into the general number of perverted generation. But then they soon extricate themselves, which is important. We may say, Well, this cannot apply to us. We have already alluded to Dan in Bashan; he leaps out of it. He leaps out of a position that is unsuitable; he leaps [p. 278] from Bashan. The disciples got out of the shame of the position by coming to Christ, and the Lord honoured them in doing it. He says to them, “Because of your unbelief; for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say to this mountain, Be transported hence there, and it shall transport itself; and nothing shall be impossible to you” Matthew 17:20. The Lord could not say those words to the crowd.
JMcK Conditions seem to be indicated in the Lord’s words, “But this kind does not go out but by prayer and fasting” Matthew 17:21. Do you not feel there is a conscious weakness with us all in prayer and fasting? That is why there is a lack of power with us administratively.
JT Just so. And then the Lord recognises the distinction that belongs to them. They separate themselves and go to Him. We are now in this room where we can get something from the Lord. If we are mixing with the crowds in the world, what difference can there be? But there is a difference as we separate ourselves to be with the Lord, and He shows us how unbelief is operating in our hearts.
JMcK When Peter was praying and fasting he went into an ecstasy and got a vision from God. If we take on these things we will receive light from God as to what is before Him.
CCT Would you say that “nothing shall be impossible to you” Matthew 17:20 is in connection with faith?
JT The whole position is brought up now inasmuch as the disciples save themselves by separating themselves and coming to the Lord. That is their salvation, and that is our salvation: not identifying ourselves with the generality of Christians around, but segregating ourselves and separating ourselves. It tells us how the matter can be accomplished; that is to say, it is a question of faith.
EGMcA [p. 279] Why is this difficult situation brought in first, before the last difficult ones are taken care of in connection with an offending brother? Is it in order to test their faith? I was thinking of Acts 13 where John Mark, after he finds the opposition of Elymas, returns and leaves Paul; his faith was not up to it.
JT There seems to be the constant testing brought forward immediately to test out what effect the mount of transfiguration had upon them, and even there they fail in proposing the three tabernacles; but that was adjusted, and even now that adjustment did not help them down below. I think the Lord intended to solve the matter of power in the assembly. What can we do without power? “Thou hast a little power” (Revelation 3:8).
ABP Would you say judaism became the real test when Christianity was introduced? It really waited for Paul to remove the mountain: his appeal to the Galatians and his withstanding Peter and his visit to Jerusalem all seemed to link on with the removal of the mountain.
JT Quite so. It was a matter of faith. What a problem they had! Paul and Barnabas went up to Jerusalem from Antioch. What a problem they had! Allusion has already been made to the good general relations that are set out in Acts 15, before the matter was put to the test and solved; most beautiful grace was put into evidence in Paul and Barnabas and those that worked with him, Titus being there. The very best in Jerusalem could hardly assail Paul’s converts. The things that Peter says and the things that James says, put before us the great work of God that was going on among the gentiles. It was to buoy up the general spirit, and hence the great result reached in the letter that was sent out from the last general assembly. The general assembly was in Acts 15, but it was [p. 280] successful.
EGMcA Is it not striking that the mount of transfiguration is brought in before this failure; and then faith is restored and then the Lord brings in the great thought of sonship before the question comes up of taking care of this offending brother?
JT This is the greatest test of all. What are we going to do with an offending brother? But there is the matter of taxes — it was a Jewish tax we are told and it was not very much. The Lord is saying, It is not very much; but it is a question of sonship. It may be a very small matter that is involved literally, but a very great matter is involved in it, in the question of sonship. So that is what the Lord solves, and He waits until Peter comes into the house which, I think, is to be observed. Questions are asked about this, that and the other thing; how are they to be answered? One often feels and one refers to himself, one could do much better if he were allowed to go to the assembly to answer them. You could do much better. Even at table talk and after the meetings are over we have another meeting. We may solve something but we may not. It may be only a matter of talk, but the solution really lies in the assembly; the house leads up to the assembly.
HB We shall decide at the mouth of Jehovah. Is that the principle?
JT Just so.
SMcC Do you mean you feel safer in the presence of the brethren and the Spirit and the light of the temple?
JT Yes. “Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?”, 1 Corinthians 3:16. That is the background of answering questions. You may hope to answer a question aright under those circumstances.
TLS It may take a long time; sometimes things take a long time. Peter is directed to go to the sea [p. 281] here and take up the first fish, and take the money out of its mouth. It took quite a period of time to go into it.
JT Yes; and then the question is, what was Peter thinking all the time, because our minds have to come into this matter. And so Romans, which is a basic epistle, deals with the mind, the renewal of the mind, “that ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God”, Romans 12:2. It is a question of the mind. What was Peter thinking when he started out to get the fish? The Lord says to him in verse 27, “But that we may not be an offence to them, go to the sea and cast a hook”, (one hook) “and take the first fish that comes up, and when thou hast opened its mouth thou wilt find a stater; take that and give it to them for me and thee”. The link is beautiful, because it brings the Lord down to us. It is not simply that He is on the mount of transfiguration and everything made of Him up there; but He is down here on the seaside; it is a question of fishing and He is with Peter. I was thinking we should keep that in our minds; He is with Peter. It is a question of sonship, and the Lord associates us with Himself in this small matter externally, but a big matter is involved in it, namely, sonship.
TLS I want to ask whether this would help us as to the matter of a fund, Peter’s answer about the Master paying tribute. He might have thought He could easily take the money out of the bank. All this has to come out.
JT Very good. A great deal now comes into mind as to what has been called of late the question of the collection, the beautiful phrase “the collection for the saints” (1 Corinthians 16:1). Well, Paul saw to that, that it was taken care of by itself. It was taken care of in the houses of the saints, laid by at home where you live; that there should be no collection when I come,
[p. 282] he says; meaning that there is to be no external influence in the thing. It is to be a matter effected in your heart by love on the first day of the week. The Lord is saying, I think, that the mount where He had just been implies the Creator, and that everything is in His hand. We are told in 1 Kings what is in His hand; all put under the Son of man. Solomon named the things, but Psalm 8 mentions how numerous the things are, so that the Lord settles the matter of the tax in this case, not by a collection from the saints. That is another matter. Paul made much of that. Two chapters are written about it and others besides, but this is a creative matter; we are in the presence of a creative matter. The Lord Jesus is the Creator and as such He tells Peter what to do. He deals with a fish which Peter would understand, but it is just one hook and the first fish that comes up, and there is a piece of money in its mouth. That is where the money comes in, in the fish. It is not the price of the fish, what he can sell it for. It is a question of what is in the fish; what the Creator has put there and how it can be used, that we may fall back on no less than on the Person who created all things, if it be a question of this small matter of tax.
ABP Why is it one coin? Why are there not two didrachmas? Why one piece that covers for both?
JT I would say it is the unity of our position. The Lord is identified with the position.
ABP That is more than association?
JT I think so. “For me and thee”. But the Lord is the Creator. It is one matter and we are brought into it. He is behind us. It is a Matthew idea. “Behold, I am with you all the days” Matthew 28:20. No less a Person than this, and whatever comes up He can solve it.
GMacPh God with us, among His [p. 283] sons.
JT Just so. Emmanuel is in Matthew; that is the idea of it. It runs through the idea of the assembly, the presence of God. “God is in you of a truth” (1 Corinthians 14:25). If it be a question of money, the Lord can take care of that. It is a very small amount, just enough for the tax for two persons. The Lord can well take care of that.
GMacPh Our care meetings would take on a spiritual dignity as the outcome of this exercise.
EGMcA The word ‘but’ in verse 27 would indicate Peter had got into a wrong position. “From whom do they receive custom or tribute? from their own sons or from strangers? Peter says to him, From strangers. Jesus said to him, Then are the sons free. But that we may not be an offence to them”. Would the Lord help him out in this difficulty?
JT The next point is the word ‘sons’. How big that is, but how small the stater is.
SMcC It is very interesting what you have pointed out about the hook because in every other reference, both in the synoptic gospels and John’s gospel too, to Peter’s fishing it is the net; a great general idea. But in this particular passage, and the only passage we have, it is the one hook.
JT The hook and line fishing is the best you can get. Do not they say in the north of Scotland that the hook and line fish is the best fish?
ASB The Lord said in chapter 4, “Come after me, and I will make you fishers of men” Matthew 4:19.
JT It is the making time. Chapter 16 is the making time really, as I said. Now it is a functioning time. We are leading up to it and Peter is learning how things can be met financially; even financial things can be met. They may be very small outwardly, but they may involve important principles. The principles are the things, and hence the important point is that the Lord says here,
“Then are the sons free”. That is one of the most important sentences we can utter, the sons of God.
ABP “There am I in the midst of them” . Does that link on with the stater?
JT Just so. See what that means when any problem arises, where there are two or three. The earlier passage is “two of you” in prayer.
CAM Whatever the obligation may be in these problems, there is some kind of tax placed on you.
JT I think it is not without importance that we are in the tax time. It is the tax time in the history of the world. There never was such a tax time as the present. Think of the immensity of tax being paid by all the workers; not all the millionaires, but all the workers. Each has to pay his tax and surely the Lord is saying, Your salary will not be so big. Things may be reduced and your salary will not be so big, and yet you have to pay your tax and you may be pinched in paying it. The Lord would say. Count on Me; I will take care of that matter. We are not to be held up by inability to pay the tax.
CCT It is an orderly instruction we have to follow to carry out what you are speaking about. Why is the lesson here to go to the sea? It does not say go fishing.
JT The Lord might have said of a certain brother, Go to him; he will pay for all you need. But the Lord would say, That is not what I want. It is to come this way. The Lord is to do it. He can take on these things. He is with us. “And behold, I am with you all the days” (Matthew 28:20). He will take on these things for us and we may be very thankful that He can take on these things.
EGMcA On the way down to the sea and in the securing of the hook and the line and getting the fish, he was no doubt thinking of the instruction in the statement of the Lord’s as to sonship. He [p. 285] would move in the dignity of that when he paid the tax.
JRH What bearing have the words of the Lord in verses 22 and 23 on this matter? “And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said to them. The Son of man is about to be delivered up into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and the third day he shall be raised up. And they were greatly grieved” Matthew 17:22,23.
JT How important they are! It is one of the features of the chapter, what the Lord had to think of personally; not paying the didrachmas, but that He is to die. “The Son of man is about to be delivered up into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and the third day he shall be raised up. And they were greatly grieved” Matthew 17:22,23. Well, what did the Lord say? That was His matter, peculiarly so. Peter’s matter was this matter of the tax, but see the difference between the two: the death of the Lord Jesus and the paying of the tax. How the Lord goes into the matter of the tax as if He would say to us, You may have to go into these matters. Things may not be so good as they have been, but you must have recourse to Me in these matters. He has promised to be with us in Matthew. Everything will be solved by Him.
ABP Is this intended to touch us, too, as to how real He has been to us in this wonderful unity?
JT Quite so. “And behold, I am with you all the days” (Matthew 28:20). There is no ascension in Matthew. The Lord says, You will have all My time down here; I will look after your affairs down here Myself.
Ques Do you look upon this matter of the tax as righteousness?
JT Well; it was met righteously. He makes it clear that neither He nor Peter were bound to pay the tax, but He says, “But that we may not be an offence to them”. Keep clear of offending them. It is a small matter anyway, but think of the principles [p. 286] that are involved in all this. The Creator Himself with us always.
CB We are to be exercised to meet the tax, yet not to lower the dignity of the assembly.
JT We are viewed as individuals here. It is a question of Peter and the Lord, and the Lord is saying, If the government wants a thing like that, it is a small matter anyway and the cattle on a thousand hills are His. We are to pay, and support the government. At one time He said, “Show me a denarius” (Luke 20:24). He recognises that it belongs to the person who made the coin and whose superscription was there, so that we should not be an offence. The Lord has helped us on those lines in regard to the claims of the government.
GMacPh Does this show the way by which we may come into spiritual liberty by discharging our moral obligations?
JT Quite so.
EGMcA Are you using this as an illustration of the word, “Pay then what is Caesar’s to Caesar, and what is God’s to God”, (Matthew 22:21)? You pay it with the constant thought in mind that you do not belong to this country at all.
JT Quite so. It is a small matter, because we are bound to reckon relatively. Relative values are constantly in mind, and this is from the relative side a very small matter and the Lord would meet it on creative grounds; all that went through the paths of the sea were His. This one fish He knew, and He knew there was a piece of money in it, and that He could use that. It says, “Take that and give it to them for me and thee”. It is beautiful to see the Lord of glory coming down to us, identifying Himself with the fisherman to pay the tax “for me and thee”.
CCT Is there any thought of an outward testimony in [p. 287] this?
JT That is what is implied: “But that we may not be an offence”. Why should I be an offence to the government for the sake of five cents or ten cents or a dollar? Pay it and pass on.
EF So that Peter says, “Wherefore also let them who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls in well-doing to a faithful Creator”, (1 Peter 4:19).
JT Just so. What will He not do for us? It was a question of illuminating Peter. It was a line full of sonship. Why should we be held up by the payment of a small tax? The point is to get the idea of sonship into our souls.
ABP Does the mount of transfiguration link on with Hebrews 1 and what we are speaking of now with Hebrews 2? I was thinking of the glory that it sheds on our position. The things that are the most menial — the Son of God has had to do with them, and as we have to do with them He would bring us into the good of the light of sonship, which is to govern us.
EGMcA In the understanding individually of, “And behold, I am with you all the days” (Matthew 28:20), I would be helped as I come with my brethren to take up matters. “For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them”. If He is with us individually, He is with us collectively.
JT Just so. And then the outcome of this in the dispensation is seen in our taking up this trespass in verse 15. We were intending to reach this: the function of the assembly coming into it. The assembly is not in the fish matter; that is the Lord’s action; but the assembly is in the matter in chapter 18, “But if he will not listen to them, tell it to the assembly; and if also he will not listen to the assembly, let him be to thee as one of the nations and a tax-gatherer. Verily I say to you. Whatsoever ye shall bind on the earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on the earth shall be loosed in heaven”. So, clearly, this offending brother is put under restraint by the assembly; not that the assembly is brought into it as fully as might be implied, but it is brought into it. The persons brought into it, especially the one that is offended against, are to regard the offender as one of the nations and a tax-gatherer. It is most extraordinary, it seems to me, that this sort of penalty should be imposed almost at once. There is nothing more said. It is a question of the offending brother, how he acts, how he is affected by this action of the assembly, and how the matter is solved.
GMacPh Your earlier remark about the disciples being included in the unbelieving and perverted generation showed how serious was the position, and now this brother is to be regarded as one of the nations and a tax-gatherer.
JT It is a serious matter. There is much more to be said than is written here, what would lead up in assembly action to this, placing a brother in this position. How serious it is! How severe Matthew is! More so than any of the gospels.
CCT It is not listening to the brother or brothers but listening to the assembly, so that it makes the assembly very important.
JT That is just the point to reach.
SMcC Would verse 16 go as far as the care meeting? “But if he do not hear thee, take with thee one or two besides”. Would it be brought to the care meeting subsequent to that?
JT I think so, leading up to an action of the assembly. So that what is often said in matters among us is, What has he done? But it is what he has not done. He has not listened to the assembly. It is a question of what the assembly is. If he does not listen to it, you might as well say if he does not listen to God. “And if also he will not listen to the assembly”. It is to bring out the importance of the assembly.
SMcC Does the voice of the assembly proceed from the assembly as actually convened? It is not the voice of the care meeting.
JT Oh no. The care meeting has no authority at all except, you might say, moral, but no formal authority. The authority is vested in the assembly itself, not in the care meeting. The care meeting is always tentative.
CCT You would not announce ‘the brethren in care have decided so-and-so’?
JT It is always tentative. Remember, the authority is vested in the assembly.
RWS The verse says, “And if also he will not listen to the assembly, let him be to thee”. It does not say ‘let him be to the assembly’ but ‘to thee’.
JT I see what you mean. Much more could be said, but the Lord means there is enough to indicate the place the assembly has for us to take it in. How great the assembly is!
RWS Some say as to shaking hands, that the assembly judged as to that, and then again it has come out in ministry that it is a matter of the priest, as to whether he will greet a person.
JT It is a question of leadership. When it comes to actual restoration as in Leviticus 13 and 14 everything hinges on the priest. It is not said ‘If there is one’. There is always supposed to be one. The priest would take the lead in the matter of this kind. If it be a question of leprosy, and of course that would enter into this, it is a question of what the priest does.
JMcK The assembly is like the highest court. It is the final matter.
JT The Lord does not go so far as we might think He should go and tell us what should happen,
[p. 290] that a brother should be put away or withdrawn from. It is a question of settling the matter with the brother who is offended; how he behaves in the matter and how he is supposed to understand the authority of the assembly, and that affects him in regard to his relations with the offending brother.
CAM The feelings of the assembly should be a guide to every right-minded Christian.
JT I do not understand how it is sometimes said that the shaking hands time has come as to a brother who has been withdrawn from That is a question of the priest, as to when he can offer his hand to a person.
CAM I think the trouble has been caused by an independency of thought, persons exercising their own independent feelings. That is where the trouble has been. If the priestly element governs the situation I am sure it would come right.
JT Besides, the gospels are not really the last word from heaven in cases of discipline or in any case. The last words are apostolic words. It says they persevered in the apostles’ doctrine. The last word is the apostles’. The Lord is not entering into the matter fully. We have to go through things and see how they are perfected. The gospels do not perfect things. They are records of what the Lord Himself did. The Lord is concerned about what the assembly does, and to bring out how it functions, and we have to go to 1 Corinthians for this matter. We have to go to Paul for the completion. He gives the last word; he completes the word of God.
GMacPh Is there any possibility of this brother listening to the assembly?
JT Well, we are not told that here, it just says, “If also he will not listen”. The Lord does not go the whole way in the matter. The same is true in regard of the position in chapter 19. Things are left, because the Lord in the gospels has in mind that [p. 291] the Holy Spirit is coming, and things will be well when He comes. The Lord is not settling matters. He is going up to heaven and sending down the Spirit so that all assembly matters are settled by Him.
CCT This is the outline and the Holy Spirit would guide us to fill in the outline.
JT Everything must await the Spirit.
EGMcA It is the importance of the assembly here, and the future handling of a matter like this is consequent on the Spirit of God being here. You find out in other parts of Scripture how to act.
JT It is the time of the apostles; that is where the last word is.
JMcK Could you help us in regard to verse 18, the binding in relation to this?
JT The binding is collective.
JMcK That is the assembly?
JT Yes, and everything must await the coming of the Spirit from heaven.
JAP The Spirit is brought in by Peter when dealing with Ananias in Acts 5.
JT Very good.